Options

Minneapolis thread 2: we can't use the funny haha subtitle anymore

TheySlashThemTheySlashThem Registered User regular
The last thread was locked, and I didn't see any kind of "we're done now" mod post, so I'm assuming this is kosher???

Anyway, this shit is still happening, black lives matter, all cops are bastards, voting will not save us, etc etc

«134567102

Posts

  • Options
    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    In re: LRADs, nothing about them seems like hearing protection wouldn't protect you.

    ADS are the ones you gotta watch out for, they look pretty similar, except a much larger "dish" which uses something similar to directed microwaves to make you move away (they're trying to lightly cook you).

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Options
    Typhoid MannyTyphoid Manny Registered User regular
    how do you graduate with a STEM degree or whatever, bright eyed and bushy tailed, and then go to work building machines whose purpose is to intentionally deafen people or make them feel like they're cooking

    from each according to his ability, to each according to his need
    hitting hot metal with hammers
  • Options
    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    how do you graduate with a STEM degree or whatever, bright eyed and bushy tailed, and then go to work building machines whose purpose is to intentionally deafen people or make them feel like they're cooking

    Two camps:

    -People who genuinely do not care because they're either sociopaths or just generally lacking a conscience

    -Folks utterly taken in by the propaganda that "non-lethal deterrents" are the future and a good thing for society at large

  • Options
    TynnanTynnan seldom correct, never unsure Registered User regular
    how do you graduate with a STEM degree or whatever, bright eyed and bushy tailed, and then go to work building machines whose purpose is to intentionally deafen people or make them feel like they're cooking

    Not everyone who gets a STEM degree has a bright eye or bushy tail. Alternatively, there are plenty of folks who get fixated on solving interesting technical problems without really thinking about what it means that the focused sound emitter is going to be pointed at their neighbor.

  • Options
    Typhoid MannyTyphoid Manny Registered User regular
    who the fuck invents waterboarding, goes home and says to himself "man, that was a good day's work"

    from each according to his ability, to each according to his need
    hitting hot metal with hammers
  • Options
    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Scientists (like, a lot if scientists) of otherwise good moral standing were convinced to make the atomic bomb.

    Turns it you can get people to do some obscene stuff if you frame it correctly.

  • Options
    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    who the fuck invents waterboarding, goes home and says to himself "man, that was a good day's work"
    3clipse wrote: »
    how do you graduate with a STEM degree or whatever, bright eyed and bushy tailed, and then go to work building machines whose purpose is to intentionally deafen people or make them feel like they're cooking

    Two camps:

    -People who genuinely do not care because they're either sociopaths or just generally lacking a conscience

    -Folks utterly taken in by the propaganda that "enhanced interrogation techniques" are the future and a good thing for society at large

  • Options
    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Not being smarmy, I promise, just...it's pretty much always one of those two things. Folks who genuinely do not give a shit, or honestly think it's for the best in the long run.

  • Options
    darunia106darunia106 J-bob in games Death MountainRegistered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Probably someone who think some human lives are worth more than others.

    Which is how we got here.

    EDIT: to make it clear BLM ACAB.

    darunia106 on
    pHWHd2G.jpg
  • Options
    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    how do you graduate with a STEM degree or whatever, bright eyed and bushy tailed, and then go to work building machines whose purpose is to intentionally deafen people or make them feel like they're cooking

    Two camps:

    -People who genuinely do not care because they're either sociopaths or just generally lacking a conscience

    -Folks utterly taken in by the propaganda that "non-lethal deterrents" are the future and a good thing for society at large

    Third camp is a lot of these are built for military operations and they're sold to people that making these means civilians are less likely to get hurt. Still a bad thing, but weapons have been made since primates could grab things with their hands.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Options
    GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    I think a lot of people view the creation of tools and platforms as inherently neutral.

    aGPmIBD.jpg
  • Options
    Typhoid MannyTyphoid Manny Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Not being smarmy, I promise, just...it's pretty much always one of those two things. Folks who genuinely do not give a shit, or honestly think it's for the best in the long run.

    nah you're right. i just don't understand how you can be working on some shit like that and not stop and think about what you're doing and how it's likely to be used

    from each according to his ability, to each according to his need
    hitting hot metal with hammers
  • Options
    TynnanTynnan seldom correct, never unsure Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Tynnan wrote: »
    how do you graduate with a STEM degree or whatever, bright eyed and bushy tailed, and then go to work building machines whose purpose is to intentionally deafen people or make them feel like they're cooking

    Not everyone who gets a STEM degree has a bright eye or bushy tail. Alternatively, there are plenty of folks who get fixated on solving interesting technical problems without really thinking about what it means that the focused sound emitter is going to be pointed at their neighbor.

    e.g. many engineers working at Google/Facebook/Amazon etc. They get hired in their early 20's at a time when many of them have never needed to reflect on the nature of the world they inhabit. They get started working on some algorithm so deep inside the system they can't see the ways it influences the actual world. They were already the smartest person in their narrow worldly experience, and this idea keeps being reinforced by office culture. Before long, they've internalized the idea that they and their coworkers deserve to inherit the universe because all you need to be in their world is smart, and being smart at code means you're smart at everything right?

    Tynnan on
  • Options
    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    re: waterboarding

    lots of people flatly reject the notion that torture doesn't actually work or just aren't aware of that fact, because they've watched 24 or they never get farther than "pain bad, nobody like that, therefore torture functional" or they're just assholes, and unfortunately a lot of them are in government

  • Options
    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Not being smarmy, I promise, just...it's pretty much always one of those two things. Folks who genuinely do not give a shit, or honestly think it's for the best in the long run.

    nah you're right. i just don't understand how you can be working on some shit like that and not stop and think about what you're doing and how it's likely to be used

    Nuclear bombs specifically were to address the prevention of losing lots of lives. It probably worked in both sides favor at the end of the day, still terrible, but a lot less terrible than what would have likely happened.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Options
    miscellaneousinsanitymiscellaneousinsanity grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Not being smarmy, I promise, just...it's pretty much always one of those two things. Folks who genuinely do not give a shit, or honestly think it's for the best in the long run.

    nah you're right. i just don't understand how you can be working on some shit like that and not stop and think about what you're doing and how it's likely to be used

    I'll bet a nonzero amount of people behind LRADs n shit were purely thinking in terms of military applications and did not for a second consider the increasing militarization of the police

    uc3ufTB.png
  • Options
    TheySlashThemTheySlashThem Registered User regular
    I've repeatedly argued in favor of these threads allowing for discussion of interconnected political ideas

    having said that I don't know if relitigating the manhattan project is where we want to go right now

  • Options
    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    how do you graduate with a STEM degree or whatever, bright eyed and bushy tailed, and then go to work building machines whose purpose is to intentionally deafen people or make them feel like they're cooking

    Two camps:

    -People who genuinely do not care because they're either sociopaths or just generally lacking a conscience

    -Folks utterly taken in by the propaganda that "non-lethal deterrents" are the future and a good thing for society at large

    They’re all just temporarily embarrassed millionaires billionaires Tony Starks

  • Options
    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Hey!

    Fuck Bob Kroll

  • Options
    TynnanTynnan seldom correct, never unsure Registered User regular
    Hey!

    Fuck Bob Kroll

    Evergreen statement

  • Options
    I ZimbraI Zimbra Worst song, played on ugliest guitar Registered User regular
    Ahmaud Aubery's murders are having their probable cause hearing this morning and it is just as horrifying as you would expect. This was very clearly a lynching.

  • Options
    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    all cops are scum but there is no category of cop lower than the police union president

  • Options
    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    all cops are scum but there is no category of cop lower than the police union president
    I would argue LGBTQ cops are even further below

    Just the absolute dirt worst

    CYpGAPn.png
  • Options
    Typhoid MannyTyphoid Manny Registered User regular

    yeah don't give your name to reporters. even if they're legit, they don't need to know who you are to report on events and you can come to harm if they recklessly publish your name like they've been doing

    from each according to his ability, to each according to his need
    hitting hot metal with hammers
  • Options
    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    BlankZoe wrote: »
    Shorty wrote: »
    all cops are scum but there is no category of cop lower than the police union president
    I would argue LGBTQ cops are even further below

    Just the absolute dirt worst

    yeah there's definitely an extra degree of betrayal there

  • Options
    CelloCello Registered User regular
    Of the engineers I know who went into defense work or talked about going into it, a nonzero amount of them want to make the boom pow machine because they think it is cool and don't put a ton of thought into how they are used

    Other ones do it but only think of the military application and put the trust in the government to make the right call about when that use of force is necessary

    And some others join these multinationals because say, aerospace engineer jobs are hard to come by, and they also have units that just do space shit or commuter shit on top of the other stuff and they're biding their time until they can switch into what they actually want to work on

    The last set would be people I knew who graduated into a shit economy in 2012 and it was the first place that offered them a job and had relatively secure employment

    The thing that ties all of these together, in my opinion as someone who has zero desire to ever work in weapon design, is the utter failure of professional organizations to require more humanities courses, with some focussed on ethics in particular

    People get into the idea of making a thing and never consider the actual ramifications in tech because no one really taught them they should, or even how

    Steam
    3DS Friend Code: 0216-0898-6512
    Switch Friend Code: SW-7437-1538-7786
  • Options
    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Glad this thread is back.

    It’s much easier to hop in here for updates then to try and read 900 different news sources.

  • Options
    Romanian My EscutcheonRomanian My Escutcheon Two of Forks Registered User regular
  • Options
    webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    Of the engineers I know who went into defense work or talked about going into it, a nonzero amount of them want to make the boom pow machine because they think it is cool and don't put a ton of thought into how they are used

    Other ones do it but only think of the military application and put the trust in the government to make the right call about when that use of force is necessary

    And some others join these multinationals because say, aerospace engineer jobs are hard to come by, and they also have units that just do space shit or commuter shit on top of the other stuff and they're biding their time until they can switch into what they actually want to work on

    The last set would be people I knew who graduated into a shit economy in 2012 and it was the first place that offered them a job and had relatively secure employment

    The thing that ties all of these together, in my opinion as someone who has zero desire to ever work in weapon design, is the utter failure of professional organizations to require more humanities courses, with some focussed on ethics in particular

    People get into the idea of making a thing and never consider the actual ramifications in tech because no one really taught them they should, or even how

    Jurassic Park called it.

    Steam ID: Webguy20
    Origin ID: Discgolfer27
    Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
  • Options
    NarbusNarbus Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    how do you graduate with a STEM degree or whatever, bright eyed and bushy tailed, and then go to work building machines whose purpose is to intentionally deafen people or make them feel like they're cooking

    Two camps:

    -People who genuinely do not care because they're either sociopaths or just generally lacking a conscience

    -Folks utterly taken in by the propaganda that "non-lethal deterrents" are the future and a good thing for society at large

    Third camp is a lot of these are built for military operations and they're sold to people that making these means civilians are less likely to get hurt. Still a bad thing, but weapons have been made since primates could grab things with their hands.

    There's also the fact that a bachelor's, even in a STEM field, isn't a guarantee of a job anymore, and with student loans what they are well, being locked out of a family or homeownership at 22 is a big burden.

    There's also also the fact that, based off what I've heard from STEM friends, it's very likely that most of the folks who did the ground level work didn't know what they were building. They only knew they were building some technically complex little box, and would probably be a bit surprised if they saw that box was one of the forty parts that assemble into a hellnoise maker.

    Mostly let's focus less on the workers and more on the shitheads with an MBA who accept these contracts because it pushed them up into the next level of bonus for the quarter

  • Options
    Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    No I don't.
  • Options
    CelloCello Registered User regular
    Narbus wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    how do you graduate with a STEM degree or whatever, bright eyed and bushy tailed, and then go to work building machines whose purpose is to intentionally deafen people or make them feel like they're cooking

    Two camps:

    -People who genuinely do not care because they're either sociopaths or just generally lacking a conscience

    -Folks utterly taken in by the propaganda that "non-lethal deterrents" are the future and a good thing for society at large

    Third camp is a lot of these are built for military operations and they're sold to people that making these means civilians are less likely to get hurt. Still a bad thing, but weapons have been made since primates could grab things with their hands.

    There's also the fact that a bachelor's, even in a STEM field, isn't a guarantee of a job anymore, and with student loans what they are well, being locked out of a family or homeownership at 22 is a big burden.

    There's also also the fact that, based off what I've heard from STEM friends, it's very likely that most of the folks who did the ground level work didn't know what they were building. They only knew they were building some technically complex little box, and would probably be a bit surprised if they saw that box was one of the forty parts that assemble into a hellnoise maker.

    Mostly let's focus less on the workers and more on the shitheads with an MBA who accept these contracts because it pushed them up into the next level of bonus for the quarter

    In Canada you can still get away with just a bachelor's of engineering to get a job, but it still took some folks I know two years post graduation, and about a quarter of them never made it into industry

    Coincidentally all but one of those people were women, but I digress

    Steam
    3DS Friend Code: 0216-0898-6512
    Switch Friend Code: SW-7437-1538-7786
  • Options
    DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    edited June 2020
    I imagine some social media managers are like, "okay, I'll post this nothing statement if you let me just fuckin' let loose on chuds in the comments"

    DJ Eebs on
  • Options
    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Western media care a lot about fatalities and less about people who got injured or disabled, it's easy to fall into binary thinking

    People also generally struggle with the idea that conditions such as concussions can have lasting impairing effects

  • Options
    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    The thing that ties all of these together, in my opinion as someone who has zero desire to ever work in weapon design, is the utter failure of professional organizations to require more humanities courses, with some focussed on ethics in particular

    People get into the idea of making a thing and never consider the actual ramifications in tech because no one really taught them they should, or even how

    When I took Business Ethics in college, our professor told us that he attempted to schedule the class as to make it attractive to business majors.

    He found that business majors weren't registering for it though, so he asked the business department.

    And this is what he effectively reported to us:
    Ethics Professor: Your students aren't registering for my class.
    Business Department: Our students don't exactly want to sit in a philosophy class for 2.5 hours two days a week...

    Ethics Professor: *returning, having adjusted the class* Okay, I rescheduled the class and now its Monday through Friday, one hour each class.
    Business Department: Yeah... Our students usually don't have classes on Fridays, as they like three day weekends.
    Ethics Professor: Fuck your garbage students.

    So, even if ethics is offered, there can be obstacles in having students even look at it as an option.

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
  • Options
    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Apologies if posted already and I missed it:

    http://www.citypages.com/news/minneapolis-city-council-members-consider-disbanding-the-police/570993291?fbclid=IwAR3rHVgxVCJ4mupm0j3ln5iKJRhB67QdjazlHo5Ff4YcqP29VpxQ-1GvOdo
    Minneapolis City Council members consider disbanding the police

    Seems to have gone beyond a couple tweets and into an actual city council conversation.

This discussion has been closed.