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E3 is dead. Gamescom August 27th!

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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    Brolo wrote: »
    At first I thought that Fallout show was from Killer Films, who did like Carol and Hedwig and Boys Don't Cry. That would've been pretty fuckin' interesting.

    But instead its Kilter Films, who did Westworld and Person of Interest. Which, sure, okay. But that's not surprising.



    yeah

    I am pretty disinterested in how Nolan/Joy think the past and the future interact, based off of Westworld

    I've no choice but to shrug at their take on Fallout

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    They say the collectathon platformer genre died but it really just morphed into open world games

    Granted the big part to collect-a-thon platformers was that the things you were collecting still required platforming to get.

    In open world games they are usually just there for the sake of exploring so it's definitely a very different itch to be scratching.

    Yes I agree completely. And y'know, that's fine, I like exploring open worlds and seeing all the work put into their maps. But I also don't feel a great urge to 100% those in the way I got all the jiggies or stars or shines or missile expansions.

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    SimBen wrote: »
    Honestly, just looking at the incoming digital event horizon that's already killed the Wii shop and is now coming imminently for the Wii U and 3DS, I never wanna buy a game digitally that I could get on disc instead.

    Wouldn't make a difference. They don't actually include the game on the disc you buy, it's just the key to download it from their servers. Disc or not, when those servers go so will any more installations.

    The exception is, amusingly enough, Switch carts.

    SOME switch carts, some are unplayable without big downloads.

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    never dienever die Registered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    With the amount of much cheaper indie games people can get and play these days I'd love to see what the actual quantity demanded is nowadays. I can't imagine triple-A purchases have remained steady over this last decade

    Sales, overall, have been pretty good for AAA games. Like they sell millions of copies.

    Which is why this price increase also feels like greed to me, not a necessity. Most AAA companies are making absurd amounts of money every year.

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    TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    But if they're more successful their CEOs can fire even more people.

    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
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    DiarmuidDiarmuid Amazing Meatball Registered User regular
    never die wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    With the amount of much cheaper indie games people can get and play these days I'd love to see what the actual quantity demanded is nowadays. I can't imagine triple-A purchases have remained steady over this last decade

    Sales, overall, have been pretty good for AAA games. Like they sell millions of copies.

    Which is why this price increase also feels like greed to me, not a necessity. Most AAA companies are making absurd amounts of money every year.

    The major publishers, 2K, Activision, EA, etc. are making billions of dollars

    They can take the hit

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    ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    edited July 2020
    never die wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    With the amount of much cheaper indie games people can get and play these days I'd love to see what the actual quantity demanded is nowadays. I can't imagine triple-A purchases have remained steady over this last decade

    Sales, overall, have been pretty good for AAA games. Like they sell millions of copies.

    Which is why this price increase also feels like greed to me, not a necessity. Most AAA companies are making absurd amounts of money every year.

    Also keep in mind this price hike is for their basketball game, which brings in more money than god just through (very predatory) microtransactions.

    This is absolutely a price gouge.

    Zxerol on
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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    I dont see where all this mistrust for the notoriously wretched anti-union sleazelord avarice incarnate type entities which dominate the videogame industry comes from

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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    I dont see where all this mistrust for the notoriously wretched anti-union sleazelord avarice incarnate type entities which dominate the videogame industry comes from

    Youtube feminists

    sig.gif
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    SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    AAA games sell more per game but there are way fewer of them. It's why all these (non)-E3 press conferences feel so hollow. Even 10 years ago, EA may have had 10 new games in the pipeline. Now they're stretching out 3 games into multiple segments to fill 60 minutes.
    I'm not sure if it's sustainable long term, but for now the top end are wildly profitable.

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Oh right

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    Here's the secret: nothing about the way the industry is structured is a necessity for video game production

    PNk1Ml4.png
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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    never die wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    With the amount of much cheaper indie games people can get and play these days I'd love to see what the actual quantity demanded is nowadays. I can't imagine triple-A purchases have remained steady over this last decade

    Sales, overall, have been pretty good for AAA games. Like they sell millions of copies.

    Which is why this price increase also feels like greed to me, not a necessity. Most AAA companies are making absurd amounts of money every year.

    every price is greed, not necessity, that's like the whole thing about business

    you charge the price that you think will make you the most money, not the one that will cover your costs

    liEt3nH.png
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    cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    Brolo wrote: »
    At first I thought that Fallout show was from Killer Films, who did like Carol and Hedwig and Boys Don't Cry. That would've been pretty fuckin' interesting.

    But instead its Kilter Films, who did Westworld and Person of Interest. Which, sure, okay. But that's not surprising.



    yeah

    no

    thanks

    Types: Boom + Robo | Food: Sweet | Habitat: Plains
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    I can't wait for the Fallout TV show to absolutely betray the narrative of the setting where capitalism and American exceptionalism helped get the world to where it is, and it will instead say "BLUE LIVES MATTER" at one point and even though it'll be directed at Vault dwellers because ha ha their jumpsuits are blue get it, it'll be crass as fuck.

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    PetesalzlPetesalzl vorpal blade in hand Registered User regular
    i only saw the first season of westworld, which seemed cool. are people against this because they don't have expectations that the westworld creators will do a good job, that it will be bad cause its fallout, or both?

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    Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2020
    yeah I didn't watch the last season, but I thought the first two seasons were really good (the first more so than the second)

    Houk the Namebringer on
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited July 2020
    It rubs me the wrong way conceptually. Fallout is a setting that was absolutely a critique on how stupid capitalism and national exceptionalism is. Bethesda has taken that and turned it into unironic marketing, particularly with the Pip Boy mascot. But television in America largely pushes exceptionalism and capitalism as the only correct ways in life. Because "focus groups" or some shit. It at best will make token gestures to, "wow, isn't this fucked up," and then moves on without teaching a goddamn thing. So a Fallout television show? God, it would have to break a lot of norms in television and television production to end up being okay.

    To put it another way, I was okay with a hypothetical multiplayer Fallout game, and then Fallout 76 happened and I said "shit." I am not going to fall into the same trap of trying to give benefit of doubt.

    Edit - And by "token gestures" I mean shit like the NFL announcing today that in week 1 of the season's games, a different song will play in place of the National Anthem. That doesn't actually DO anything or challenge anything. A Fallout TV show has the potential to be a shitshow in that regard.

    Henroid on
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited July 2020
    On the other hand, the first time we heard Watchmen was going to be a show on HBO, written by Lindelof, it's not like I had great confidence.

    Fencingsax on
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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    Petesalzl wrote: »
    i only saw the first season of westworld, which seemed cool. are people against this because they don't have expectations that the westworld creators will do a good job, that it will be bad cause its fallout, or both?

    Speaking only for myself, and not whatever internet backlash at large may be, season one of Westworld hit a lot of my Least Favorite Things checkboxes

    -On a show about robots discovering sentience, the robots modeled on indigenous people were exclusively murderous plot devices. Other robots either got to grow, or were tragically prevented from growing. Indians were Indians who appeared from nowhere, murdered, left.

    -It is a deeply nihilistic show that takes it as a given that when you remove "consequence" (however loosely you define that term), the default human behavior is cruelty and destruction. Nobody goes to Westworld to open a shop, or work on a farm. People only show up to Do Crimes. That's not how escapism works, for real people. It's not how people work.

    -There was not a single character I liked. There was not a single character I was even curious about. Nobody had a favorite brand of chip, nobody had a band they were irrationally fond of, nobody had a hobby they were bad at but pursued anyway. Everyone was a mouthpiece for a (rudimentary) philosophy, a stand-in for an archetype, a means to deliver to exposition. Nobody was a person.

    -(My pettiest grievance) The show regularly quoted and/or referenced Alice in Wonderland and Shakespeare, without actually engaging with the works. It had nothing to say about or with them, but wanted to be thought of alongside them. Real Creative Writing 201 shit.

    I can't say whether or not they will do a good job with Fallout, because I don't know who else they might hire, how much they might listen to the people they hire, or any of that. I just know that I have actively disliked the intersection-of-past-and-future work that they've thus far produced, and that makes me deeply skeptical of further works in that milieu

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    ChicoBlueChicoBlue Registered User regular
    I hope Fallout tv has a quest for a waterchip and a scene where the main character asks the Master if any of the supermutants are menstruating.

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    mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    edited July 2020
    Petesalzl wrote: »
    i was a big bruce coville fan as a young'un. such as goblins in the castle and the wonderful Jeremy thatcher dragon hatcher.

    This is PAGES old but I have to tell this quick story.

    I loved reading as a child, and I loved LORE. And much like today where I kind of hyperfocus, if I loved a book I needed to know everything. Prequels, sequels, ect. And since this was an age before the internet, that was hard. So I resorted to reading EVERYTHING in the book. The page about publishing and copyright, the blurbs, the pages about the author. And the illustrator.

    So Bruce Coville actually lived near my town and my mom took me to a local library where he did a reading from a new book of his and took questions. I had the perfect question that had been burning a hole in my brain for weeks.

    He called me.

    "I love your books and I noticed the illustrator has the last name Coville too. Who is it?"

    I remember he kind of laughed and goes "My wife illustrated some of the covers."

    I sat and then launched the follow up that my mom calls, to this day, one of the most embarrassing moments of her life.

    "Well it says you live in Skaneateles, NY. But it says she lives in California. Why don't you live with your wife?"

    He laughed really hard and said "mom? Dad? Help here." and moved on.

    And that's how I learned sometimes parents fall out of love!

    mxmarks on
    PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
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    shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Petesalzl wrote: »
    i only saw the first season of westworld, which seemed cool. are people against this because they don't have expectations that the westworld creators will do a good job, that it will be bad cause its fallout, or both?

    Speaking only for myself, and not whatever internet backlash at large may be, season one of Westworld hit a lot of my Least Favorite Things checkboxes

    -On a show about robots discovering sentience, the robots modeled on indigenous people were exclusively murderous plot devices. Other robots either got to grow, or were tragically prevented from growing. Indians were Indians who appeared from nowhere, murdered, left.

    -It is a deeply nihilistic show that takes it as a given that when you remove "consequence" (however loosely you define that term), the default human behavior is cruelty and destruction. Nobody goes to Westworld to open a shop, or work on a farm. People only show up to Do Crimes. That's not how escapism works, for real people. It's not how people work.

    -There was not a single character I liked. There was not a single character I was even curious about. Nobody had a favorite brand of chip, nobody had a band they were irrationally fond of, nobody had a hobby they were bad at but pursued anyway. Everyone was a mouthpiece for a (rudimentary) philosophy, a stand-in for an archetype, a means to deliver to exposition. Nobody was a person.

    -(My pettiest grievance) The show regularly quoted and/or referenced Alice in Wonderland and Shakespeare, without actually engaging with the works. It had nothing to say about or with them, but wanted to be thought of alongside them. Real Creative Writing 201 shit.

    I can't say whether or not they will do a good job with Fallout, because I don't know who else they might hire, how much they might listen to the people they hire, or any of that. I just know that I have actively disliked the intersection-of-past-and-future work that they've thus far produced, and that makes me deeply skeptical of further works in that milieu

    The only comment I want to make here is that ONLY ultra rich people get to go to Westworld it seems like. I don't find it a very objectionable idea that the ultra rich are depraved, misogynist monsters by and large. The Man in Black character across two seasons is a very direct and in depth examination of what kind of person becomes an ultra rich CEO world famous billionaire.

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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    Petesalzl wrote: »
    i only saw the first season of westworld, which seemed cool. are people against this because they don't have expectations that the westworld creators will do a good job, that it will be bad cause its fallout, or both?

    Speaking only for myself, and not whatever internet backlash at large may be, season one of Westworld hit a lot of my Least Favorite Things checkboxes

    -On a show about robots discovering sentience, the robots modeled on indigenous people were exclusively murderous plot devices. Other robots either got to grow, or were tragically prevented from growing. Indians were Indians who appeared from nowhere, murdered, left.

    -It is a deeply nihilistic show that takes it as a given that when you remove "consequence" (however loosely you define that term), the default human behavior is cruelty and destruction. Nobody goes to Westworld to open a shop, or work on a farm. People only show up to Do Crimes. That's not how escapism works, for real people. It's not how people work.

    -There was not a single character I liked. There was not a single character I was even curious about. Nobody had a favorite brand of chip, nobody had a band they were irrationally fond of, nobody had a hobby they were bad at but pursued anyway. Everyone was a mouthpiece for a (rudimentary) philosophy, a stand-in for an archetype, a means to deliver to exposition. Nobody was a person.

    -(My pettiest grievance) The show regularly quoted and/or referenced Alice in Wonderland and Shakespeare, without actually engaging with the works. It had nothing to say about or with them, but wanted to be thought of alongside them. Real Creative Writing 201 shit.

    I can't say whether or not they will do a good job with Fallout, because I don't know who else they might hire, how much they might listen to the people they hire, or any of that. I just know that I have actively disliked the intersection-of-past-and-future work that they've thus far produced, and that makes me deeply skeptical of further works in that milieu

    The only comment I want to make here is that ONLY ultra rich people get to go to Westworld it seems like. I don't find it a very objectionable idea that the ultra rich are depraved, misogynist monsters by and large. The Man in Black character across two seasons is a very direct and in depth examination of what kind of person becomes an ultra rich CEO world famous billionaire.

    There's nobody who's lording their wealth over a high school bully by bringing them to Westworld, and their former bully is horrified by the sociopathic depravity? There's no landscaping crew of working class people who come in to construct the biomes? There's nobody to come in and fix the plumbing when a Guest tries to shove a cactus down an auto-latrine?

    And if those people DO exist, why does the show think the depraved rich people are more interesting? Like, I don't think your view of the show is WRONG, but if you are right, it means the show's lens is myopic

    It's a show that doesn't give a shit about People, and that bums me out

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited July 2020
    I have not seen Westworld, but isn't that why you have robots? So your peons won't whine about things like "compensation" and "food"?

    Fencingsax on
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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    who repairs the robots

    liEt3nH.png
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    shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    edited July 2020
    Petesalzl wrote: »
    i only saw the first season of westworld, which seemed cool. are people against this because they don't have expectations that the westworld creators will do a good job, that it will be bad cause its fallout, or both?

    Speaking only for myself, and not whatever internet backlash at large may be, season one of Westworld hit a lot of my Least Favorite Things checkboxes

    -On a show about robots discovering sentience, the robots modeled on indigenous people were exclusively murderous plot devices. Other robots either got to grow, or were tragically prevented from growing. Indians were Indians who appeared from nowhere, murdered, left.

    -It is a deeply nihilistic show that takes it as a given that when you remove "consequence" (however loosely you define that term), the default human behavior is cruelty and destruction. Nobody goes to Westworld to open a shop, or work on a farm. People only show up to Do Crimes. That's not how escapism works, for real people. It's not how people work.

    -There was not a single character I liked. There was not a single character I was even curious about. Nobody had a favorite brand of chip, nobody had a band they were irrationally fond of, nobody had a hobby they were bad at but pursued anyway. Everyone was a mouthpiece for a (rudimentary) philosophy, a stand-in for an archetype, a means to deliver to exposition. Nobody was a person.

    -(My pettiest grievance) The show regularly quoted and/or referenced Alice in Wonderland and Shakespeare, without actually engaging with the works. It had nothing to say about or with them, but wanted to be thought of alongside them. Real Creative Writing 201 shit.

    I can't say whether or not they will do a good job with Fallout, because I don't know who else they might hire, how much they might listen to the people they hire, or any of that. I just know that I have actively disliked the intersection-of-past-and-future work that they've thus far produced, and that makes me deeply skeptical of further works in that milieu

    The only comment I want to make here is that ONLY ultra rich people get to go to Westworld it seems like. I don't find it a very objectionable idea that the ultra rich are depraved, misogynist monsters by and large. The Man in Black character across two seasons is a very direct and in depth examination of what kind of person becomes an ultra rich CEO world famous billionaire.

    There's nobody who's lording their wealth over a high school bully by bringing them to Westworld, and their former bully is horrified by the sociopathic depravity? There's no landscaping crew of working class people who come in to construct the biomes? There's nobody to come in and fix the plumbing when a Guest tries to shove a cactus down an auto-latrine?

    And if those people DO exist, why does the show think the depraved rich people are more interesting? Like, I don't think your view of the show is WRONG, but if you are right, it means the show's lens is myopic

    It's a show that doesn't give a shit about People, and that bums me out

    This will get into some spoiler territory for seasons 1 and 2 (haven't gotten into 3 yet).
    I think the show's attempts at "normal" people are:
    -The two computer techs. The one sympathizes with Maeve and decides they need to help her and is also sort of blackmailed into it, the other is completely blackmailed into helping her and is gross anyway. They come off to me as realistic portraits of people who work ethical minefield jobs and get by mainly by thinking about what they do in very careful, partitioned, rationalized ways and the drama comes from those dams bursting. But ALSO, the whole "forced into helping Maeve" thing never was 100% sold by the writing. There was always an element of... they could get around this and it would make more sense if they tried harder to at certain points. So that's a flaw for sure.
    -The Man in Black's daughter. She is deeply disgusted by all the things he's done, but in the end still cares if he lives or dies because he was her father. Her reward for this altruism is pretty tragic if you haven't seen season 2, and it's actually SO bad, it's the one thing that shocks the Man in Black out of his whole deal. I'm not at all sure what the end of season 2 says about this.

    The Man in Black's business friend/rival/eventual enemy from season 1 is kind of like the bully storyline you're describing? He brought the Man in Black out to Westworld to try to be an Alpha Chad and lord over him basically, but this eventually goes VERY BADLY for him.

    Finally, I would argue that the show gives a shit about people... it's just those people are all robots. It also thinks the human versions of Jeffrey Wright and Anthony Hopkins were worth caring about, your mileage might have varied.

    I found the show often clever, but occasionally VERY stupid. The music is incredible. I'm underqualified to talk about how it has dealt with race and gender, suffice to say I would totally agree with someone saying it was problematic in those areas. I'll be checking out season 3 eventually, I've heard promising things.

    shoeboxjeddy on
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    JoolanderJoolander Registered User regular
    who repairs the robots

    Other smaller robots

    It’s robots all the way down

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    I would think the technology involved in creating a sadistic murder theme park full of indistinguishably fidelitous androids would have more interesting and indeed more lucrative applications than a sadistic murder theme park

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    TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    who repairs the robots

    The police?

    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    TheStig wrote: »
    who repairs the robots

    The police?
    Silly Stig, the police aren't capable of fixing anything.

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    You can get fun with the word fix

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=DUgKUspKisY

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    BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
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    PwnanObrienPwnanObrien He's right, life sucks. Registered User regular
    Brolo wrote: »

    Yeah, and then one of them was a Worms game that has real-time combat and the internet had a normal one and started declaring it a battle royale game and thus bad.

    I mean where could I possibly get a turn based 2d Worms game with fully destructible environments? HOW DARE THEY TRY SOMETHING NEW!

    Mwx884o.jpg
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    They've done Worms 3D before, like two decades ago.

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Hogs of War was already pretty close to a 3D Worms even before that

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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    Westworld season 3 absolutely shits all over the idea that Westworld reveals that all rich people are secretly sociopaths
    It turns out the “real world” is also as violent as a video game, but it’s Watchdogs instead of RDR. Every single character is a murderous asshole and nobody faces any consequence. The one new character who is introduced as an avatar of Common People (they play that song early in his introduction ha ha) is a contract criminal, who used to be a war criminal with PTSD, and it turns out his mind has been fucked with by The System because he’s one of the 10% uncontrollable anarchists or whatever and he actually used to be The Only Good Soldier. The villain of the season is a Costco Matrix Philosopher who thinks humanity is too violent and must be controlled by the Patriots and in the end the protagonists decide that letting everyone live in a Constant Murder Dystopia is preferable to there being a control computer.

    There’s one cool episode where Maeve is caught in a virtual nazi timeloop, though.

    sig.gif
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Where is my TV show that supports being ruled by an all knowing computer.

    I mean, it would be unrealistic because the computer would be absurdly racist and sexist in real life, but if you already have true AI in the setting, maybe that is not an issue

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Thats why when you're buliding the Immortal Philosopher-Tyrant Machine you don't build it yourself directly you build very smart robots that then build even smarter robots that then build the IPTM

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    Thats why when you're buliding the Immortal Philosopher-Tyrant Machine you don't build it yourself directly you build very smart robots that then build even smarter robots that then build the IPTM

    Thank God garbage in, garbage out does not apply to machine learning

This discussion has been closed.