[The Last of Us Part II] Full Of Friendly Mushroom People

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  • Jean Claude Van CalmJean Claude Van Calm 'sup? Awesome Possum.Registered User regular
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    I actually would definitely bank on Fireflies not having access to an MRI, yeah
    I think some of the evidence that Ellie finds in St. Mary's in TLoU2 during one of the flashbacks is literal MRI images (too high of a resolution to be a CAT scan, even with contrast), but I'll have to double check on my New Game+ replay. I wish I had screenshotted it!

    MRIs are prohibitively expensive to fire up and maintain, but they still might have access to it depending on their power generation.

    Ahhhhhhh yeah more MRI stuff and back half spoilers.
    I’ll bite lol. If the goal is ultra-realism there is a 0 percent chance of an MRI or CT running 20 years after the literal apocalypse. It is about 20 years after right? I forget exactly

    Ironically, in the context of the story there are more neurosurgeons in the world right now than there are MRI cold head rebuild technicians - so if the story really wanted to sing to me Joel would have had to kill a cryogenic mechanical engineer that was also Abbys dad lol. MRI systems receive maintenance to replace wearable parts every 6 months and every year the cold head pump used to cycle and condense liquid helium in the tank to maintain superconductivity is rebuilt as it loses efficiency. Older systems like around 2013 actually used to bleed off liquid helium, and when enough of it is gone without a refill - kablooy. There are some fixed electro magnet systems (not in super hospitals as shown though) but those coils wear down to nothing in ~8 years. So its not just the electrical power, although that is a piece of the puzzle - its that their shear physical construction around maintaining super conductivity that makes an MRI a 5000lb bomb just waiting to go off - and when it does there is no just turning the power back on.

    Considering that there are literally 10+ portable x-ray and C-arm units parked in all the hospital rooms in the game (yes I counted and took screenshots with them. Its rare they come up in games - let me have this one thing!) and the images you pick up are a digital “film” print. In my head cannon these are somehow super amazing portable X-ray images - even though thats kinda a meh answer too, its more realistic than any functioning advanced scanner.
    I'm still approaching that section of the game on my New Game+, but from my memory, the resolution of the scans that Ellie finds were WAY higher than that of even a high resolution X-ray, and even the highest resolution X-ray would show soft tissue very poorly, unless the film literally was showing calcifications at the site of the infection. I think I chuckled a bit because it's highly unlikely that they would have printed off films (it would have been stored digitally).

    CT scanners are at a level of tech where they can be wheeled into a patient's room, and they don't require the massive amounts of maintenance and power generation that an MRI has. It's not beyond the resources of any hospital to have a CT scanner, although image quality is worse with the portable units, and it's not going to show soft tissue like an MRI does (although with contrast, which they would probably have available, it might be good enough).

    Again, I'll report back after I get to that flashback again.

    As a former medical professional, none of this even approaches any semblance of reality, so... yeah.
    Oh boy, I apologize for the epic derail, this is the end I promise I just love this stuff. I love the game, I got platinum yesterday. Big joy #teamabby

    eyyyyyhhhhh. I assure you there are still teams of engineers making sure even portable CTs work correctly, even a portable 100kv scan requires 100,000 volts from somewhere. In a way they have to be designed to be quasi disposable because of the stresses placed on the machine - a tube will only ever last about 2 years, slip ring brushes about the same - HV battery packs maybe ~5 years. Ive been a diagnostic imaging engineer for like 9ish years now for multi modality multi manufacturer systems and this sort of looking at these machines like a toaster is actually kinda becoming a problem when it comes to user expectations of fixing them.

    We are starting to call this “Familiarity Fatigue” in the industry, in healthcare people have become maybe a bit to surface familiar to the active workings of some of these systems, but some perspective - an MRI is quite possibly the very first useful iteration of quantum manipulation of the human body, I like to think of it as a portal that takes your atoms nowhere. It polarizes and detects the spin echos of hydrogen atoms after RF manipulation in a given material (your body) and it does this by maintaining a niobium superconductive loop - a loophole trick in physics that only ~50 years ago would have had the inventor banished for witchcraft.

    CT is still in popular mechanics top 3 most advanced mass produced machines on the planet - they have enough circuitry traces to circumvent the globe and a single loose screw can fling a 300lb tube a quarter mile. Every press of a start scan on a CT is a cascade of trillions of collision events at the atomic level, tens of thousands of volts of current stripping electrons from tungsten atoms with only 1% of that energy creating useful x-ray the rest of it is heat and stress to the system. Don't even get me started on the scintillators in the detector array.... mmmmMMmmmmm scintillators. On a mechanical level Youtube a CT scanner with the covers off - and imagine it working without 20 years of care. Ouch.

    I know we agree the whole “good quality brain picture” thing is far fetched lol but its so far fetched that its more likely that the fireflies would have a working fleet of SR-71s than a single advanced scanner :P

    TLDR: You know, after all that maybe it is just more realistic to cut her open and poke around in there than to scan or research stuff. I dunno, I’m not a doctor or vaccine person, and I don't let any of it get to me when it comes to enjoying the story. :D

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  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    Jean Claude Van Calm, don't apologize :). Your posts are interesting / I don't think anyone is annoyed by them. Be proud!

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  • ZavianZavian Registered User regular
    edited June 30
    The amount of hatred directed at everyone involved in this game is pretty amazing, it’s basically become a rallying point for every alt-right goose on the internet:
    "I think you have to create some separation to say, we made this game, we believe in this game, we're proud of this game, now it's out there and it's like whatever reaction people have--whether they like it or not--that's fair," Druckmann said. "That's their reaction and you don't fight that. The other thing with the more hateful stuff, the more vile stuff, that's a little harder. It's especially harder when I see it happening to team members or cast members who play a particular character in the game."

    "We have an actor, she's been getting really awful, vile stuff because of a fictional character she's playing in the game," Druckmann added. "I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around that. The thing I try to do is just ignore it as much as I can. When things escalate to being serious, there are certain security protocols that we take and I report it to the proper authorities. Then you just try to focus on the positives and focus on distracting yourself with other stuff. But it's kind of just the reality."

    “A few hours later, [the leak is] everywhere and you’re starting to get hate on every social media you’re on, and soon that turns into death threats, anti-Semitic remarks, and just craziness I never could have anticipated,” he continued, stating that he never thought the game would get this sort of hate."

    https://www.gamespot.com/articles/last-of-us-2-director-responds-to-internet-hate/1100-6479133/

    I’m so glad this game is breaking sales records because it’s a giant middle finger to all those anti-Semitic alt-right bigots out there

    Zavian on
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  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Don't even get me started on the scintillators in the detector array.... mmmmMMmmmmm scintillators.

    Are video games becoming too scintillating? Tune into my podcast while I discuss this disturbing trend

  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    edited July 1
    Zavian wrote: »
    The amount of hatred directed at everyone involved in this game is pretty amazing, it’s basically become a rallying point for every alt-right goose on the internet:
    "I think you have to create some separation to say, we made this game, we believe in this game, we're proud of this game, now it's out there and it's like whatever reaction people have--whether they like it or not--that's fair," Druckmann said. "That's their reaction and you don't fight that. The other thing with the more hateful stuff, the more vile stuff, that's a little harder. It's especially harder when I see it happening to team members or cast members who play a particular character in the game."

    "We have an actor, she's been getting really awful, vile stuff because of a fictional character she's playing in the game," Druckmann added. "I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around that. The thing I try to do is just ignore it as much as I can. When things escalate to being serious, there are certain security protocols that we take and I report it to the proper authorities. Then you just try to focus on the positives and focus on distracting yourself with other stuff. But it's kind of just the reality."

    “A few hours later, [the leak is] everywhere and you’re starting to get hate on every social media you’re on, and soon that turns into death threats, anti-Semitic remarks, and just craziness I never could have anticipated,” he continued, stating that he never thought the game would get this sort of hate."

    https://www.gamespot.com/articles/last-of-us-2-director-responds-to-internet-hate/1100-6479133/

    I’m so glad this game is breaking sales records because it’s a giant middle finger to all those anti-Semitic alt-right bigots out there

    Jesus Christ. I was trying to remain unspoiled on the game so I was avoiding stuff, I didn't wanna know what the drama was about. But it's fucking this? I mean people are so fucked in the head. It's a game you incredibly dense liver worms, not some culture war or whatever.

    Everyday, I begin to think the internet was a mistake

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  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited July 1
    I can’t stand talking about this game anywhere than here. The critics on this forum have clearly played it and have valid options based on the game.

    As opposed to arguing with fuckwits on Facebook (as an example) 100% pissed because (awful incorrect spoiler):
    How dare they kill Joel because of a trans woman

    And it just gets dumber from there. So obvious these idiots haven’t even watched the game.

    Aegeri on
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  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    Zavian wrote: »
    The amount of hatred directed at everyone involved in this game is pretty amazing, it’s basically become a rallying point for every alt-right goose on the internet:
    "I think you have to create some separation to say, we made this game, we believe in this game, we're proud of this game, now it's out there and it's like whatever reaction people have--whether they like it or not--that's fair," Druckmann said. "That's their reaction and you don't fight that. The other thing with the more hateful stuff, the more vile stuff, that's a little harder. It's especially harder when I see it happening to team members or cast members who play a particular character in the game."

    "We have an actor, she's been getting really awful, vile stuff because of a fictional character she's playing in the game," Druckmann added. "I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around that. The thing I try to do is just ignore it as much as I can. When things escalate to being serious, there are certain security protocols that we take and I report it to the proper authorities. Then you just try to focus on the positives and focus on distracting yourself with other stuff. But it's kind of just the reality."

    “A few hours later, [the leak is] everywhere and you’re starting to get hate on every social media you’re on, and soon that turns into death threats, anti-Semitic remarks, and just craziness I never could have anticipated,” he continued, stating that he never thought the game would get this sort of hate."

    https://www.gamespot.com/articles/last-of-us-2-director-responds-to-internet-hate/1100-6479133/

    I’m so glad this game is breaking sales records because it’s a giant middle finger to all those anti-Semitic alt-right bigots out there

    Jesus Christ. I was trying to remain unspoiled on the game so I was avoiding stuff, I didn't wanna know what the drama was about. But it's fucking this? I mean people are so fucked in the head. It's a game you incredibly dense liver worms, not some culture war or whatever.

    Everyday, I begin to think the internet was a mistake

    the game's subreddit is actually shameful. makes me wonder why i ever spent time on reddit

    i don't think the internet is to blame. the internet is just the upturning of the rock; the writhing creatures below are revealed. they'd exist anyway. at least with the internet we can hope the sunlight burns a few

    sC4Q4nq.jpg
  • LilnoobsLilnoobs Alpha Queue Registered User regular
    No, the internet fuels the spark.

    rahkeesh2000
  • CristovalCristoval Registered User regular
    "Gamers upset" needs to be the perminant log line at the top of every gaming news site.

    Nightslyr
  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    I will always be amazed and dismayed by how vile and selfish a lot of gamers are. There are plenty of games I dislike (shit, the first TLoU is one of them), but I can't imagine feeling so personally hurt or angry by a game as to lash out at the people who made it.

    I'm just so tired of this shit. It's been going on for far too long. "Games are art, but how dare you critique it the way art is critiqued!" "Games are for everyone, except women, POC, LGBTQ+, or the disabled!" "I hate identity politics in my games, even though I identify with the white cis male avatar who's always justified in the use of violence... And there's nothing wrong with me romancing my buxom white cis woman subordinate with boob window attire through a combination of spammed compliments and gifts!" "And if any developer or reviewer does something I don't like, I'm going to harass, doxx, and threaten them!"

    Bunch of petulant little fucks.

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  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    I will always be amazed and dismayed by how vile and selfish a lot of gamers are. There are plenty of games I dislike (shit, the first TLoU is one of them), but I can't imagine feeling so personally hurt or angry by a game as to lash out at the people who made it.

    I'm just so tired of this shit. It's been going on for far too long. "Games are art, but how dare you critique it the way art is critiqued!" "Games are for everyone, except women, POC, LGBTQ+, or the disabled!" "I hate identity politics in my games, even though I identify with the white cis male avatar who's always justified in the use of violence... And there's nothing wrong with me romancing my buxom white cis woman subordinate with boob window attire through a combination of spammed compliments and gifts!" "And if any developer or reviewer does something I don't like, I'm going to harass, doxx, and threaten them!"

    Bunch of petulant little fucks.

    There's a "then vs now" Doge meme that's been going around lately and one version of it so encapsulated the situation that I had to keep it for later use.

    6ur7dk43q2651.jpg

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  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    We got up to the first dog section. I did not do too well. D:

    Oh brilliant
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Yeah the dogs have to be the priority, if possible try to snipe them from a distance with a silenced pistol or bow before you start on anyone else.


    ...or let them track you through an IED.

    Chance
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    I was hoping to avoid killing them, but it seems extremely difficult to avoid em.

    They're finally putting a dent in my resources at least. Up to here, it's been smooth sailing and I was kinda feeling disappointed in the difficulty level. Now tho, oof. Running low baybee.

    Oh brilliant
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    More power to you if you want to try but it's going to become a very difficult prospect later, some groups of enemies will have like three dogs with them.

  • ZavianZavian Registered User regular
    edited July 1
    Donnicton wrote: »
    More power to you if you want to try but it's going to become a very difficult prospect later, some groups of enemies will have like three dogs with them.

    Note that enemies scale with difficulty, on light I only faced a handful of dogs in the whole game, only one at a time. You can avoid fighting all but one of them. I used melee attacks which only takes one hit, might take more on harder difficulty. It’s weird that this game also has..
    the best interaction with a dog as well where you can even play catch. You only really fight dogs in the first half

    Zavian on
  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    few things i noticed at the start of my lazy second play through:
    - ellie has a lotta astronaut paraphernalia in her room

    - one of the first interactions in jackson you come across is patting a town dog (looks like some of the designs for a canned companion dog)

    - when abby's group's introduced we pan over nora, manny, owen, and mel bundled in their sleeping bags, a little reminiscent of the body bags at wolf hq

    - owen's performance really sells this damn game - it's so understated and human from the start. also, naughty dog really hammer the old 'protagonist talking to themself' trick to get us on side with abby early

    - the wyoming mall you explore with dina is reminiscent at one point of the one you explore with riley in 'left behind.' i think this is the first of a few conscious reminders of TLOU's levels in the first half of the game

    - if you don't go straight for the joint jar, you can also find a gas mask hotboxed to a bong, and a bunch of porno VHS tapes in eugene's basement. the way dina pronounces 'smash brandy's cooch' is hilarious

    - the rate-our-kiss moment is very reminiscent of drake and elena at the end of uncharted 2 - a very clever trick to show the chemistry between them

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  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    Curious of how much I still got of the game, cause I'm at 20 hours and I don't feel close to an end? I feel like I got at least past the first half, since that thing happened.

    Obvious spoilers,
    Just met Yana and Lev

  • metaghostmetaghost Registered User regular
    Kyougu wrote: »
    Curious of how much I still got of the game, cause I'm at 20 hours and I don't feel close to an end? I feel like I got at least past the first half, since that thing happened.

    Obvious spoilers,
    Just met Yana and Lev

    If it took you 20 hours to that point (which sounds about similar to me), you probably have 15 hours or so.

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  • ZavianZavian Registered User regular
    edited July 1
    bsjezz wrote: »
    few things i noticed at the start of my lazy second play through:
    - ellie has a lotta astronaut paraphernalia in her room

    - one of the first interactions in jackson you come across is patting a town dog (looks like some of the designs for a canned companion dog)

    - when abby's group's introduced we pan over nora, manny, owen, and mel bundled in their sleeping bags, a little reminiscent of the body bags at wolf hq

    - owen's performance really sells this damn game - it's so understated and human from the start. also, naughty dog really hammer the old 'protagonist talking to themself' trick to get us on side with abby early

    - the wyoming mall you explore with dina is reminiscent at one point of the one you explore with riley in 'left behind.' i think this is the first of a few conscious reminders of TLOU's levels in the first half of the game

    - if you don't go straight for the joint jar, you can also find a gas mask hotboxed to a bong, and a bunch of porno VHS tapes in eugene's basement. the way dina pronounces 'smash brandy's cooch' is hilarious

    - the rate-our-kiss moment is very reminiscent of drake and elena at the end of uncharted 2 - a very clever trick to show the chemistry between them

    Yeah in interviews they’ve said originally there was a long open world sandbox section before the ‘inciting incident’ that they cut and trimmed down a ton because they didn’t want the game to drag on too long, so they decided to do the ‘inciting incident’ a lot sooner and cut the open world part from the beginning. Which I can understand, but also wish there’s DLC or something that brings it back in some way. There’s only one real open world sandbox type chapter but it’s pretty small, would love more of that

    Zavian on
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
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  • DeadfallDeadfall I don't think you realize just how rich he is. In fact, I should put on a monocle.Registered User regular
    edited July 1
    I think this video summed up my feelings. Spoilers obviously


    I thought it was a masterpiece.
    Whole game
    It wasn't the game I thought I wanted at first. But it became the game I ended up reflecting upon and...I don't want to say needing but came to understand. It got me through some difficult emotions of events in my own life and how I'd react to hypothetical situations. Or at least how I thought I'd react.

    I started playing the same time as my buddy and we'd text each other updates as we went. And we both started with how we couldn't wait for revenge. But by the end I was exhausted and just wanted Ellie to go home.

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  • ZavianZavian Registered User regular
    After playing TLOU2 I now want to live in Wyoming

  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    Zavian wrote: »
    After playing TLOU2 I now want to live in Wyoming

    There’s practically nothing there.

  • ZavianZavian Registered User regular
    Zavian wrote: »
    After playing TLOU2 I now want to live in Wyoming

    There’s practically nothing there.

    After living in a state filled with Florida Mans, that’s a positive

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  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    Deadfall wrote: »
    I think this video summed up my feelings. Spoilers obviously


    I thought it was a masterpiece.
    Whole game
    It wasn't the game I thought I wanted at first. But it became the game I ended up reflecting upon and...I don't want to say needing but came to understand. It got me through some difficult emotions of events in my own life and how I'd react to hypothetical situations. Or at least how I thought I'd react.

    I started playing the same time as my buddy and we'd text each other updates as we went. And we both started with how we couldn't wait for revenge. But by the end I was exhausted and just wanted Ellie to go home.

    This video is dead on.

    AegeriChance
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited July 2
    Chance wrote: »

    This is an incredibly excellent read and I can't help but agree with the core thesis she brings across.

    Edit: I still think that games, especially narrative heavy games like the Last of Us and its follow up, suffer a lot because they need to have "gameplay". I mean, I know you're probably thinking that's the dumbest thing you've read in a while about games, but it's hard to get the kind of narrative this game is getting across while murdering shit tons of people. It's one of the problems I've always had with the Uncharted franchise and in Tomb Raider, by the third game Lara Croft is
    stringing dead enemies up into trees to terrify others
    .

    I'm really unsure how games try to tell a story like this and not get undermined by the need to pad themselves out with brutal gameplay sequences, which only undermine the core story they are trying to tell. Like, I keep going back to Uncharted 3 and the infamous fire/spider sequences, where enemies are trying to kill you while a mansion burns around them or a literal horde of massive angry spiders are chasing them. How much do they pay these people?!?!

    Aegeri on
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  • ouchiesouchies Registered User regular
    Deadfall wrote: »
    I think this video summed up my feelings. Spoilers obviously


    I thought it was a masterpiece.
    Whole game
    It wasn't the game I thought I wanted at first. But it became the game I ended up reflecting upon and...I don't want to say needing but came to understand. It got me through some difficult emotions of events in my own life and how I'd react to hypothetical situations. Or at least how I thought I'd react.

    I started playing the same time as my buddy and we'd text each other updates as we went. And we both started with how we couldn't wait for revenge. But by the end I was exhausted and just wanted Ellie to go home.

    This video is dead on.

    This is a meticulously designed, expertly crafted experience, and it exceeds its predecessor in scope and intent. I can't think of many other examples of works of art that have affected me in a more viscerally emotional way, and it is without a doubt the most emotionally intelligent and devastating video game I have ever played. That said, I don't think I will ever play this game again.

    Spoilers for the end, which I just got to on Monday.
    Druckmann said the theme of TLoU was love, and the theme of Part II was hate. That was absolutely true. The events of this game make the cross country galavant of Part I downright cheerful by comparison. But more than that, the theme was effective because I hated this game. It made me feel hate. Truly. From the moment Joel was killed I was filled with a hatred that surprised me, and I was absolutely on Ellie's side and champing at the bit to hunt these people down and execute them. I was honestly taken aback by my reactions to the prologue: I liked the first game a ton, but it's a bunch of make-believe, they're just pretend people. But those pretend people apparently really mattered quite a bit to me. This wasn't going to be a retread of reluctantly taking on a mission, a mission nebulously defined, and growing to realize that caring for people still matters. No, this time the mission is clear from the jump and that mission is severe, brutal retaliation.

    Pre-release I made sure not to read any spoilers or reviews of the game. I didn't peek at any of the spoiler tags. What I did read was about how gruesomely violent the game was and how the game seemed to want to have it both ways, to facilitate an encourage that violence while also asking why it's happening and what it says about our collective morality. I'm a bit of a baby when it comes to violence, so the idea of arm-breaking cinematics happening as a standard kill-animation made me nervous, and the intensity of the morality-talk made me wonder about how these themes would be presented. But then, after that prologue, I was fully on board. There isn't enough violence in the world the bring down on these people. Whenever Ellie took out some low-level mook from Abby's gang or come to find someone else got them first, I didn't stop to think about the moral implications of their death. I just thought "good, fuck that person." I certainly didn't care when Ellie killed Owen, and my only reaction to Mel's reveal was "well, tough shit for you."

    The video above is exactly right that the boss battle is whether or not you can learn to forgive. I beat the game, I watched the credits, the trophy popped, but I failed that boss fight. Even at the end, with an emaciated Abby rowing Lev away from hatred and torture, I still felt nothing but blinding contempt for her. When the game switched to her perspective I was incensed. I knew what they were doing, it was going to parallel Ellie's storyline and her timeline. The game was quite literally making me walk a mile in this characters shoes, a character I judged on sight as being the villain. And then I did walk a mile in her shoes, and I didn't care even a little bit. It was maybe halfway through Abby's Day 1 when I switched the difficulty from Normal to Very Easy to just blast my way through to get to the end to see how things ended. Every time I carelessly got grabbed by a clicker or Rat-King or was burned to death by a shambler, my only reaction was "good." I didn't understand the balance mechanic during the skybridge chapter and Abby fell to her death three or four times, and it was a moment of brief satisfaction. It was a genius bit of writing, making me play as this character, working to ensure she survived even though the only thing I wanted her to do was die. There's a much longer conversation to be had about her character, and I haven't got all the answers to that, but I will say (in my perverse defense) that all the things that happen to "redeem" Abby aren't really about her, they're about Lev, so that relationship didn't do anything to make me come around to her side of things. There was that impossibly brief flash where I thought there was going to be a measure of peace, but it was a brilliant misdirect: after Ellie frees Abby from the pillars, Abby is leading the way to the boats. I thought, ok, this is it, Ellie will forgive her, finally seeing that this hatred will just corrode each of their lives. I thought, if Ellie can forgive her, so can I. There will be catharsis after all, hooray! I was ready to have a good cry (the only other video game I cried over was, funnily enough, Sony's Marvel's Spiderman, when the thing happens with Aunt May). But Ellie can't forgive Abby, so neither can I. Ellie is left broken, begrudgingly accepting this stalemate, but not learning forgiveness. Her revenge cost her two of her fingers, her friend Jesse. It caused Dina to leave. It caused Tommy to go mad and for his marriage to fall apart. All Ellie has now is an empty house, and she ultimately walks away from that, too. And Abby's pursuit of revenge has resulted in the deaths of almost every single one of her friends, her banishment from her home, and her complete disillusionment with her life. Her story has growth, though, in that she isn't a fascist foot solider any more and she has learned to accept others that she once treated with gross prejudice. She's shown more growth than Ellie, but I still hate her. I don't care that she had to walk a tough road and lose everyone she had been close to.

    And in that way, of course, she's shown more growth than I have over the course of playing this game. I'm still knee deep in water, trying to push square hard enough and fast enough to plunge that knife into Abby's chest. I failed the boss fight of learning to forgive, and that has made me feel as though I've failed at the game of humanity. That's an ugly feeling to have, a scary truth to realize, but it's there, and I have to figure out what to do with it. It's incredibly that a videogame is the thing that's made me have to consider these things and grapple with some pretty staggering realizations. Do I not have the capacity for forgiveness? Am I too binary or absolute in my thinking, in my worldview? I don't feel good after having finished this game, because it's made me question myself in very troubling ways. That's why I say I'll likely never play this game again. Maybe I'm just mad that I didn't get the game I wanted, about these characters I love getting into scraps together and learning how to make nail-bombs together and taking on the world and coming out on top together, even in some morally-ambiguous way. Maybe I just wanted them to stay in that Apollo capsule forever. Maybe I just wanted Ellie to cut Abby's limbs off with a circular saw and for everyone in Jackson to high-five her for it. But none of those things would have brought up the feelings I have to sit with, and that's a true testament to how great this game is as it is.

    This game is absolute poetry, but it's a poem makes me feel bad in my soul. It's a breath-taking poem, in that regard.

  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    edited July 2
    @ouchies i wouldn't feel too bad. i think you failed the game in a way, but in a much less existential way than you assume
    i think you failed when you clicked over to very light difficulty

    in that moment, you invested into your contempt with a symbolic resolution. it's not your fault; the option was there, and you took it. it opens up a lot of very interesting questions about how meaning is conveyed while windows are left wide open to allow huge differences in experience.

    i played on hard, and i'm not lying when i say i didn't need abby's seattle experience to see her perspective. that opening section was tough enough. it gave me the sense that the stakes were already way higher than life or death for her; so i trusted that when joel asks her to "say whatever speech she had rehearsed" and get it done with, he knew as well as she did that he bloody well deserved it. and i felt that more accutely because i died a buncha times in that ski gondola port, and it took a while and was gruelling, and joel helped me-as-abby through it... but he still understood abby killing him was fair

    a lot of people needed that whole slog of seattle-as-abby to come to terms with her as a character, though, and not feeling the pain of retracing slow, difficult steps for lev and for yara is a hindrance to understanding her. what if you felt no fear in the hospital basement? where goes the urgency at each empty medical kit? what if finding scars littering an area you'd already cleared of infected did not sink your heart, and put another obstacle in the way of the fate of our last flickers of light? the game's obstacles are meant to be obstacles; when you decided to fuck the obstacles, you disengaged in a way that probably affected your ability to feel its full meaning. it's not some blackness in your heart. it's just your response to a construct you grew impatient with, and altered at the root

    maybe you failed the game; maybe it failed you, at the point you got the shits with it; either way, you don't need to beat yourself up about it on some innate human level

    maybe do play it again some day. but give it time

    bsjezz on
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  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    It's a clever idea with Abby.
    Up until you play as her she's like a boogieman, you can find her friends but not her and it sounds like she's out on her own unique mission and then its weird because shes hiding at the aquarium. Is she hiding from us? Why does it sound like other people are after her? But you never see her again until she appears at the hotel.

    Then you get to play through it all as her. It feels more disposable, like I don't want to invest in skills because I know I will be going back to Ellie, but you do and you get a bit more insight into SOME of the characters. You don't really get much out of the Asian character Tommy kills early on or the guy you knife in the school and you never get to meet the one in the TV station.

    Some missteps that stand out to me now though: the Rattlers were dressed in such a way that at first I thought that it was WLFs that had hunted Abby down. I was a bit confused about the Seraphites too as we never met the leader. She was apparently killed before the game. I found the clipping that implies she was a well prepared neighbourhood resident who helped her neighbors survive and it all kind of built from there but it would have been nice to meet her. The bit with Lev going back for his mum was contrived at best. That it got both his mum and Yara killed is stupid and makes the character stupid.

    Hahnsoo1
  • firewaterwordfirewaterword Satchitananda Pais Vasco to San FranciscoRegistered User regular
    Finally finished it last night. Thought it would never end!

    Fantastic game. Loved it. They pulled off something pretty damn special. Some of the bits felt like a bit of a slog, but in an intentional way I can't really get mad at.

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  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    It's a clever idea with Abby.
    Up until you play as her she's like a boogieman, you can find her friends but not her and it sounds like she's out on her own unique mission and then its weird because shes hiding at the aquarium. Is she hiding from us? Why does it sound like other people are after her? But you never see her again until she appears at the hotel.

    Then you get to play through it all as her. It feels more disposable, like I don't want to invest in skills because I know I will be going back to Ellie, but you do and you get a bit more insight into SOME of the characters. You don't really get much out of the Asian character Tommy kills early on or the guy you knife in the school and you never get to meet the one in the TV station.

    Some missteps that stand out to me now though: the Rattlers were dressed in such a way that at first I thought that it was WLFs that had hunted Abby down. I was a bit confused about the Seraphites too as we never met the leader. She was apparently killed before the game. I found the clipping that implies she was a well prepared neighbourhood resident who helped her neighbors survive and it all kind of built from there but it would have been nice to meet her. The bit with Lev going back for his mum was contrived at best. That it got both his mum and Yara killed is stupid and makes the character stupid.
    Wow, I feel absolutely terrible for your family knowing that you’ll abandon them the moment things gets hard.

  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    This is an emotionally draining game, good god. Almost finished, I think. Then I have to go for round 2 in order to get all the trophies.

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  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    It's a clever idea with Abby.
    Up until you play as her she's like a boogieman, you can find her friends but not her and it sounds like she's out on her own unique mission and then its weird because shes hiding at the aquarium. Is she hiding from us? Why does it sound like other people are after her? But you never see her again until she appears at the hotel.

    Then you get to play through it all as her. It feels more disposable, like I don't want to invest in skills because I know I will be going back to Ellie, but you do and you get a bit more insight into SOME of the characters. You don't really get much out of the Asian character Tommy kills early on or the guy you knife in the school and you never get to meet the one in the TV station.

    Some missteps that stand out to me now though: the Rattlers were dressed in such a way that at first I thought that it was WLFs that had hunted Abby down. I was a bit confused about the Seraphites too as we never met the leader. She was apparently killed before the game. I found the clipping that implies she was a well prepared neighbourhood resident who helped her neighbors survive and it all kind of built from there but it would have been nice to meet her. The bit with Lev going back for his mum was contrived at best. That it got both his mum and Yara killed is stupid and makes the character stupid.
    Wow, I feel absolutely terrible for your family knowing that you’ll abandon them the moment things gets hard.
    Eh it's a bit different as i'm talking about narrative contrivance. The mum comes out of nowhere, her previous mentions are all that she is a true believer, but Lev returns anyway, the mum acts exactly as the older sister described, dies, and the excursion almost gets Abby killed and very much gets the older sister killed, and it's never really brought up again this actions got his entire living family dead.

    Hahnsoo1
  • ZavianZavian Registered User regular
    It's a clever idea with Abby.
    Up until you play as her she's like a boogieman, you can find her friends but not her and it sounds like she's out on her own unique mission and then its weird because shes hiding at the aquarium. Is she hiding from us? Why does it sound like other people are after her? But you never see her again until she appears at the hotel.

    Then you get to play through it all as her. It feels more disposable, like I don't want to invest in skills because I know I will be going back to Ellie, but you do and you get a bit more insight into SOME of the characters. You don't really get much out of the Asian character Tommy kills early on or the guy you knife in the school and you never get to meet the one in the TV station.

    Some missteps that stand out to me now though: the Rattlers were dressed in such a way that at first I thought that it was WLFs that had hunted Abby down. I was a bit confused about the Seraphites too as we never met the leader. She was apparently killed before the game. I found the clipping that implies she was a well prepared neighbourhood resident who helped her neighbors survive and it all kind of built from there but it would have been nice to meet her. The bit with Lev going back for his mum was contrived at best. That it got both his mum and Yara killed is stupid and makes the character stupid.
    Wow, I feel absolutely terrible for your family knowing that you’ll abandon them the moment things gets hard.
    Eh it's a bit different as i'm talking about narrative contrivance. The mum comes out of nowhere, her previous mentions are all that she is a true believer, but Lev returns anyway, the mum acts exactly as the older sister described, dies, and the excursion almost gets Abby killed and very much gets the older sister killed, and it's never really brought up again this actions got his entire living family dead.
    What I love about Lev is that he's one of the only good natured and innocent people in that entire game universe. Of course he would go back to try and save his mother. That's what makes Lev such a great character IMO

  • DeadfallDeadfall I don't think you realize just how rich he is. In fact, I should put on a monocle.Registered User regular
    The Scars
    I thought it was brilliant that the prophet was dead long before you even get there. She was portrayed as this cult leader with a gang of fanatical savages under her thrall. But then you find out that's not what she was at all.

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  • Jean Claude Van CalmJean Claude Van Calm 'sup? Awesome Possum.Registered User regular
    Deadfall wrote: »
    The Scars
    I thought it was brilliant that the prophet was dead long before you even get there. She was portrayed as this cult leader with a gang of fanatical savages under her thrall. But then you find out that's not what she was at all.

    More scars.
    Agreed, I missed it the first time but Lev specifically mentions that some of the scars are misinterpreting/warping her teachings and have forced the pendulum towards fanaticism. Ouch. I didn’t come out of it with the same feelings for the scars as I did for WLF - like “oh they are all just people trying to get along in this world and our paths just crossed poorly”. But, I’m not sure that was fully the intention, it was more like this is what some people resulted to just to survive and as always some people in the group warped it for more power. I really think this story hits on so many levels and they did a fair job of executing it.

    PSN: Grimmsy- Xbox Live: Grimmsy
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Deadfall wrote: »
    I think this video summed up my feelings. Spoilers obviously


    I thought it was a masterpiece.
    Whole game
    It wasn't the game I thought I wanted at first. But it became the game I ended up reflecting upon and...I don't want to say needing but came to understand. It got me through some difficult emotions of events in my own life and how I'd react to hypothetical situations. Or at least how I thought I'd react.

    I started playing the same time as my buddy and we'd text each other updates as we went. And we both started with how we couldn't wait for revenge. But by the end I was exhausted and just wanted Ellie to go home.

    This video is dead on.

    Yeah. That is far and away the best review of this game I've seen, bar none.

    I disagreed with the part that it can't be accused of lazy writing - just because something's colossal and ultimately successful doesn't mean it was done perfectly. Like, Everest is absolutely a very good, tall mountain that succeeds at being a mountain, but it's got problems.

    I was always entertained by that channel but I haven't watched them in a while. That was a brilliant fucking review. Subbed.

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  • NoneoftheaboveNoneoftheabove Registered User regular
    edited July 3
    So many feelings for the game thus far, but I think it is fantastic.

    Noneoftheabove on
  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    Yeah I finally beat it
    Gotta say it was a good game but definitely felt a little too long in some sections. They fact that Abby let Ellie go twice and she still went after her was wild to me, but in the end despite whomping the shit out of her I thought for sure Ellie would die of her wounds.

    I like the ending being that both of them lived. I'll have to think some more on how I felt on the whole. I think like has been said, the first game is a tighter experience and this one was almost Kojima-esque in length. I beat it on Hard, is there a harder difficulty for NG+? I don't remember what it said at the start

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