Seattle Day 3 (Part II) is in the can, Ellie has abandoned her domestic bliss and when we caught up with Abby and Lev in Cali, I shut it down for the night.
i liked the ending. i think if she hadn't literally lost two fingers the guitar symbolism would have been better. what's interesting to me is how her forgiveness of joel is tied to her experience seeking revenge. i believe the implication is that through it all - and maybe the reason she couldn't let him go - was that she held onto that anger to joel even after his death.
joel's decision denied her meaning, which is why she was so quick to take up the 'meaning' of a revenge quest. i think that plays into it
the absolute clutch moment in the narrative was selling us on her final decision to hunt abby. i didn't think they could do it. but between her journal and confronting it head on by having her justify herself to dina, they pulled it off
oh my god did i love the slaver house raid. so pulpy. i laughed out loud when i picked up the silenced submachine gun, and the neil young track grinding on loop made perfecting that section a gloriously sleazy reward. picked up exactly where the hotline miami wink left off
as for abby - gonna revisit some of the earlier comments now, but i think if anything the ending sides with the haters? it's not a dignified conclusion for her. in the grand scale of things she wound up being more peripheral than it felt like it could go.
yara's a goner but she's also somehow my first bet for a DLC character. her 'death' was easily as ambiguous as tommy's
I do feel like everything they're doing to try and humanize/ingratiate me to Abby is having the opposite effect. Having her be part of an extremely militant society whose rallying call is 'may your death be swift' just makes me hate the WLF even more.
Even the part with her playing fetch with a dog that's definitely supposed to twist the knife about you killing them as Ellie just a little bit ago, all I could think was 'you're actively breeding these dogs to kill and be wielded as weapons'
Not to mention their apparent apathy at Mel, who is extremely pregnant being sent to the 'front lines' which is apparently dangerous enough to get them special treatment in line for food
THANK YOU.
Not to mention the game takes all player agency out of the equation when it forces you to kill the dog. It's a cheap, manipulative ploy to make Ellie seem more monstrous and Abby get some perceived moral high ground. No matter how much you love dogs, there's no way you're not going to fight back if you can when there's one about to rip your throat out.
I just really, really can't fathom how Druckman thought trying to force empathy for Abby in this way was a good idea. I've heard the argument that if the story were un-Tarantino'd and fed to us in chronological order, we would've gotten more time with her before killing Joel, thus gotten to understand her headspace a little more. Conversely, the little time we got with Joel and Ellie together would've felt longer and more substantial. To this end, I'm downloading all the game cutscenes and going to try a re-edit myself to see how much this theory holds up.
ehh
the remit of literature has always been to force us to empathise with those we might not otherwise, from shakespeare on down. i understand that it might not have been effective for you, but it was for me. probably because the most immediate thing the second half of the narrative does is introduce a war-like context, which reframes the violence and the characters' sensitivity to it. it spoke to me of atrocities in the world wars and africa's civil conflicts, where we know humans were/are capable of some gut-churning shit. but they're still humans. that's what we have to reckon with.
i am going to check myself here because i'm not finished yet and endings are always where the most important messages are sent. we'll see how we go.
Right, but if a writer wants you to empathize with a character you normally wouldn't, they need to do their homework and put in the requisite effort to make it happen. Don't read this spoiler until you've beaten it.
Hence my argument about the game being out of chronological order actively harming the impact of the story. If we went from the opening scene with Tommy, Joel singing for Ellie in her room, then right to Abby's flashback with her dad? Boom, some instant curiosity about her and empathy, commingled with the dread of, "oh no, this is right before the end of the last game...I see where this is going." Then, maybe hop to the museum scene as a mirror of the previous one, which tells the player right away how not dissimilar Abby and Ellie are. Then, you can jump into some of the aquarium stuff, move over to Joel and Ellie on patrol, distrust between them growing, then crescendo that with Abby discovering her father's death. You follow it up with Ellie confronting Joel about the Fireflies, swing over to Abby becoming who she is in the present of the story, end this lengthy prologue/first third with the dance night and Joel and Ellie's conversation after that. Thus, you've now established who Abby is, why she hates Joel and wants him dead, the audience can get behind if not condone it, and we conversely have also had a substantial amount of time showing Ellie and Joel together, their relationship evolving, and her finally being (almost) ready to forgive him. When you show their flashbacks out of order, it taints them because we know he's dead, and it ends up just feeling like snippets from a better sequel we'll never get.
i don't really agree
firstly, the flashbacks were so integral to not just telling the story, but pacing the elements of quite relentless, bleak seattle gameplay with reminders of a better time. i needed to see joel. and i needed to see owen through abby's segments, because understanding just how great a guy he was was part of motivating me to feel for abby and keep going.
partly i can see what you mean because i'm also often frustrated by stories that are just 'catching up' to more recent plot events that have already happened. in this case though i don't think you can pull off the central conceit without it, and they did it very well
and at the very least that last flashback - the conversation where we hear that ellie's going to "try" to forgive him - is so important to end the narrative. it's the little recontextualising kicker that reminds us there's more at play than the blind, fumbling vengeance of two very similar, very human women
Abby was not bit. Ellie was bit and the prisoners were noticing this. Abby is not infected.
Yara's death isn't really ambiguous as she got machine gunned by multiple people while on the ground and was left on the ground in enemy territory. Even ignoring the unlikely possibility of surviving what happened to her, there's no way the WLF or the Seraphites nurse her to health. She is quite dead.
That and her only real point to existing was to further get us to know Lev.
Bizazedo on
XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
both of those things make sense, but i was sure i only saw yara take one bullet. maybe i looked away and only noticed the machine-gun burst that killed isaac
i now REALLY wish i hadn't misinterpreted that "she's bit" line (how could they see? wasn't the bite tiny?) because it recolours that whole fistfight
fuck. i do not have time to replay this game right now...
edit: it did strike me that
ellie's quest to kill abby turning out to actually be a rescue mission was kinda cleverly ironic. it makes more sense now that i feel the rescue actually applied to abby and not just lev
I do feel like everything they're doing to try and humanize/ingratiate me to Abby is having the opposite effect. Having her be part of an extremely militant society whose rallying call is 'may your death be swift' just makes me hate the WLF even more.
Even the part with her playing fetch with a dog that's definitely supposed to twist the knife about you killing them as Ellie just a little bit ago, all I could think was 'you're actively breeding these dogs to kill and be wielded as weapons'
Not to mention their apparent apathy at Mel, who is extremely pregnant being sent to the 'front lines' which is apparently dangerous enough to get them special treatment in line for food
THANK YOU.
Not to mention the game takes all player agency out of the equation when it forces you to kill the dog. It's a cheap, manipulative ploy to make Ellie seem more monstrous and Abby get some perceived moral high ground. No matter how much you love dogs, there's no way you're not going to fight back if you can when there's one about to rip your throat out.
I just really, really can't fathom how Druckman thought trying to force empathy for Abby in this way was a good idea. I've heard the argument that if the story were un-Tarantino'd and fed to us in chronological order, we would've gotten more time with her before killing Joel, thus gotten to understand her headspace a little more. Conversely, the little time we got with Joel and Ellie together would've felt longer and more substantial. To this end, I'm downloading all the game cutscenes and going to try a re-edit myself to see how much this theory holds up.
ehh
the remit of literature has always been to force us to empathise with those we might not otherwise, from shakespeare on down. i understand that it might not have been effective for you, but it was for me. probably because the most immediate thing the second half of the narrative does is introduce a war-like context, which reframes the violence and the characters' sensitivity to it. it spoke to me of atrocities in the world wars and africa's civil conflicts, where we know humans were/are capable of some gut-churning shit. but they're still humans. that's what we have to reckon with.
i am going to check myself here because i'm not finished yet and endings are always where the most important messages are sent. we'll see how we go.
Right, but if a writer wants you to empathize with a character you normally wouldn't, they need to do their homework and put in the requisite effort to make it happen. Don't read this spoiler until you've beaten it.
Hence my argument about the game being out of chronological order actively harming the impact of the story. If we went from the opening scene with Tommy, Joel singing for Ellie in her room, then right to Abby's flashback with her dad? Boom, some instant curiosity about her and empathy, commingled with the dread of, "oh no, this is right before the end of the last game...I see where this is going." Then, maybe hop to the museum scene as a mirror of the previous one, which tells the player right away how not dissimilar Abby and Ellie are. Then, you can jump into some of the aquarium stuff, move over to Joel and Ellie on patrol, distrust between them growing, then crescendo that with Abby discovering her father's death. You follow it up with Ellie confronting Joel about the Fireflies, swing over to Abby becoming who she is in the present of the story, end this lengthy prologue/first third with the dance night and Joel and Ellie's conversation after that. Thus, you've now established who Abby is, why she hates Joel and wants him dead, the audience can get behind if not condone it, and we conversely have also had a substantial amount of time showing Ellie and Joel together, their relationship evolving, and her finally being (almost) ready to forgive him. When you show their flashbacks out of order, it taints them because we know he's dead, and it ends up just feeling like snippets from a better sequel we'll never get.
i don't really agree
firstly, the flashbacks were so integral to not just telling the story, but pacing the elements of quite relentless, bleak seattle gameplay with reminders of a better time. i needed to see joel. and i needed to see owen through abby's segments, because understanding just how great a guy he was was part of motivating me to feel for abby and keep going.
partly i can see what you mean because i'm also often frustrated by stories that are just 'catching up' to more recent plot events that have already happened. in this case though i don't think you can pull off the central conceit without it, and they did it very well
and at the very least that last flashback - the conversation where we hear that ellie's going to "try" to forgive him - is so important to end the narrative. it's the little recontextualising kicker that reminds us there's more at play than the blind, fumbling vengeance of two very similar, very human women
because ellie's story is not the same as anyone's
she and abby both got bit in the epilogue
only abby gets to die
AHHHH WHY DID I CLICK THAT I'D KEPT MYSELF SO PUUUUUURE
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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I do feel like everything they're doing to try and humanize/ingratiate me to Abby is having the opposite effect. Having her be part of an extremely militant society whose rallying call is 'may your death be swift' just makes me hate the WLF even more.
Even the part with her playing fetch with a dog that's definitely supposed to twist the knife about you killing them as Ellie just a little bit ago, all I could think was 'you're actively breeding these dogs to kill and be wielded as weapons'
Not to mention their apparent apathy at Mel, who is extremely pregnant being sent to the 'front lines' which is apparently dangerous enough to get them special treatment in line for food
THANK YOU.
Not to mention the game takes all player agency out of the equation when it forces you to kill the dog. It's a cheap, manipulative ploy to make Ellie seem more monstrous and Abby get some perceived moral high ground. No matter how much you love dogs, there's no way you're not going to fight back if you can when there's one about to rip your throat out.
I just really, really can't fathom how Druckman thought trying to force empathy for Abby in this way was a good idea. I've heard the argument that if the story were un-Tarantino'd and fed to us in chronological order, we would've gotten more time with her before killing Joel, thus gotten to understand her headspace a little more. Conversely, the little time we got with Joel and Ellie together would've felt longer and more substantial. To this end, I'm downloading all the game cutscenes and going to try a re-edit myself to see how much this theory holds up.
ehh
the remit of literature has always been to force us to empathise with those we might not otherwise, from shakespeare on down. i understand that it might not have been effective for you, but it was for me. probably because the most immediate thing the second half of the narrative does is introduce a war-like context, which reframes the violence and the characters' sensitivity to it. it spoke to me of atrocities in the world wars and africa's civil conflicts, where we know humans were/are capable of some gut-churning shit. but they're still humans. that's what we have to reckon with.
i am going to check myself here because i'm not finished yet and endings are always where the most important messages are sent. we'll see how we go.
Right, but if a writer wants you to empathize with a character you normally wouldn't, they need to do their homework and put in the requisite effort to make it happen. Don't read this spoiler until you've beaten it.
Hence my argument about the game being out of chronological order actively harming the impact of the story. If we went from the opening scene with Tommy, Joel singing for Ellie in her room, then right to Abby's flashback with her dad? Boom, some instant curiosity about her and empathy, commingled with the dread of, "oh no, this is right before the end of the last game...I see where this is going." Then, maybe hop to the museum scene as a mirror of the previous one, which tells the player right away how not dissimilar Abby and Ellie are. Then, you can jump into some of the aquarium stuff, move over to Joel and Ellie on patrol, distrust between them growing, then crescendo that with Abby discovering her father's death. You follow it up with Ellie confronting Joel about the Fireflies, swing over to Abby becoming who she is in the present of the story, end this lengthy prologue/first third with the dance night and Joel and Ellie's conversation after that. Thus, you've now established who Abby is, why she hates Joel and wants him dead, the audience can get behind if not condone it, and we conversely have also had a substantial amount of time showing Ellie and Joel together, their relationship evolving, and her finally being (almost) ready to forgive him. When you show their flashbacks out of order, it taints them because we know he's dead, and it ends up just feeling like snippets from a better sequel we'll never get.
i don't really agree
firstly, the flashbacks were so integral to not just telling the story, but pacing the elements of quite relentless, bleak seattle gameplay with reminders of a better time. i needed to see joel. and i needed to see owen through abby's segments, because understanding just how great a guy he was was part of motivating me to feel for abby and keep going.
partly i can see what you mean because i'm also often frustrated by stories that are just 'catching up' to more recent plot events that have already happened. in this case though i don't think you can pull off the central conceit without it, and they did it very well
and at the very least that last flashback - the conversation where we hear that ellie's going to "try" to forgive him - is so important to end the narrative. it's the little recontextualising kicker that reminds us there's more at play than the blind, fumbling vengeance of two very similar, very human women
because ellie's story is not the same as anyone's
she and abby both got bit in the epilogue
only abby gets to die
AHHHH WHY DID I CLICK THAT I'D KEPT MYSELF SO PUUUUUURE
Nah you’re okay. He’s actually wrong on a core point there so you’ll be fine when you get to the end.
I do feel like everything they're doing to try and humanize/ingratiate me to Abby is having the opposite effect. Having her be part of an extremely militant society whose rallying call is 'may your death be swift' just makes me hate the WLF even more.
Even the part with her playing fetch with a dog that's definitely supposed to twist the knife about you killing them as Ellie just a little bit ago, all I could think was 'you're actively breeding these dogs to kill and be wielded as weapons'
Not to mention their apparent apathy at Mel, who is extremely pregnant being sent to the 'front lines' which is apparently dangerous enough to get them special treatment in line for food
THANK YOU.
Not to mention the game takes all player agency out of the equation when it forces you to kill the dog. It's a cheap, manipulative ploy to make Ellie seem more monstrous and Abby get some perceived moral high ground. No matter how much you love dogs, there's no way you're not going to fight back if you can when there's one about to rip your throat out.
I just really, really can't fathom how Druckman thought trying to force empathy for Abby in this way was a good idea. I've heard the argument that if the story were un-Tarantino'd and fed to us in chronological order, we would've gotten more time with her before killing Joel, thus gotten to understand her headspace a little more. Conversely, the little time we got with Joel and Ellie together would've felt longer and more substantial. To this end, I'm downloading all the game cutscenes and going to try a re-edit myself to see how much this theory holds up.
ehh
the remit of literature has always been to force us to empathise with those we might not otherwise, from shakespeare on down. i understand that it might not have been effective for you, but it was for me. probably because the most immediate thing the second half of the narrative does is introduce a war-like context, which reframes the violence and the characters' sensitivity to it. it spoke to me of atrocities in the world wars and africa's civil conflicts, where we know humans were/are capable of some gut-churning shit. but they're still humans. that's what we have to reckon with.
i am going to check myself here because i'm not finished yet and endings are always where the most important messages are sent. we'll see how we go.
Right, but if a writer wants you to empathize with a character you normally wouldn't, they need to do their homework and put in the requisite effort to make it happen. Don't read this spoiler until you've beaten it.
Hence my argument about the game being out of chronological order actively harming the impact of the story. If we went from the opening scene with Tommy, Joel singing for Ellie in her room, then right to Abby's flashback with her dad? Boom, some instant curiosity about her and empathy, commingled with the dread of, "oh no, this is right before the end of the last game...I see where this is going." Then, maybe hop to the museum scene as a mirror of the previous one, which tells the player right away how not dissimilar Abby and Ellie are. Then, you can jump into some of the aquarium stuff, move over to Joel and Ellie on patrol, distrust between them growing, then crescendo that with Abby discovering her father's death. You follow it up with Ellie confronting Joel about the Fireflies, swing over to Abby becoming who she is in the present of the story, end this lengthy prologue/first third with the dance night and Joel and Ellie's conversation after that. Thus, you've now established who Abby is, why she hates Joel and wants him dead, the audience can get behind if not condone it, and we conversely have also had a substantial amount of time showing Ellie and Joel together, their relationship evolving, and her finally being (almost) ready to forgive him. When you show their flashbacks out of order, it taints them because we know he's dead, and it ends up just feeling like snippets from a better sequel we'll never get.
i don't really agree
firstly, the flashbacks were so integral to not just telling the story, but pacing the elements of quite relentless, bleak seattle gameplay with reminders of a better time. i needed to see joel. and i needed to see owen through abby's segments, because understanding just how great a guy he was was part of motivating me to feel for abby and keep going.
partly i can see what you mean because i'm also often frustrated by stories that are just 'catching up' to more recent plot events that have already happened. in this case though i don't think you can pull off the central conceit without it, and they did it very well
and at the very least that last flashback - the conversation where we hear that ellie's going to "try" to forgive him - is so important to end the narrative. it's the little recontextualising kicker that reminds us there's more at play than the blind, fumbling vengeance of two very similar, very human women
because ellie's story is not the same as anyone's
she and abby both got bit in the epilogue
only abby gets to die
AHHHH WHY DID I CLICK THAT I'D KEPT MYSELF SO PUUUUUURE
Nah you’re okay. He’s actually wrong on a core point there so you’ll be fine when you get to the end.
Whew. Thank you. And now my daily work is actually done so unless an email pops up and I make the egregious error of reading it... ON TO THE ENNNND!
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
ellie's quest to kill abby turning out to actually be a rescue mission was kinda cleverly ironic. it makes more sense now that i feel the rescue actually applied to abby and not just lev
Yeah, Epilogue Spoilers:
As many (elsewhere) have noted, you feel quite "empowered" during the Assault on Slaver Base, suddenly freed in some respects from the guilt of prior violence because you are murdering indisputably slavedriving scumbags. And this only "works" within the overall text because of how Ellie finally succumbs to her grief and trauma and transfers her unborn forgiveness from Joel to Abby.
ellie's quest to kill abby turning out to actually be a rescue mission was kinda cleverly ironic. it makes more sense now that i feel the rescue actually applied to abby and not just lev
Yeah, Epilogue Spoilers:
As many (elsewhere) have noted, you feel quite "empowered" during the Assault on Slaver Base, suddenly freed in some respects from the guilt of prior violence because you are murdering indisputably slavedriving scumbags. And this only "works" within the overall text because of how Ellie finally succumbs to her grief and trauma and transfers her unborn forgiveness from Joel to Abby.
i do think the game ultimately
puts all its chips in on classic gamey metanarratives of innocence, and it's particularly emphasised through the images/presence of children throughout - as well as pregnancy being a knife-twister. it's what ultimately makes lev's voice of reason cut through to abby.
i don't think that necessarily contradicts its ambition to humanise the enemy. i think you can empathise with someone and also feel like, well, you lost your innocence with that choice - to go to war, to fight back with violence, to bring someone else out of innocence - so now you're playing for keeps. i'm allowed to kill you.
edit: in a world defined by genre, that is. not saying murder is justifiable irl, however heinous your victim's crimes, heh heh heh
Okay post-credit reactions. And I feel like someone was asking about the song in one of the areas near the end? I can't tell you the song name but that is without question The Black Angels.
Anyway - reactions!
I feel like Ellie's exploration of San Diego should've been at least twice as long, with a boss encounter or two to rival Abby's dance with The Thing. It needed to be both the Resort sequence (winter) and spring, with some over-the-top action wildness that met up with the calibur of Joel cleaning out the hospital at the end of 1. As it is, I feel like we got that sequence mostly from Abby cutting through the Scar village. Anyway, here nor there. I loved the gameplay of it front to back.
I don't want to go too deep into representation or shit in the story. I've said it feels like a skin the writer is wrapping around themselves like a security blanket, and that writer hasn't really internalized the lessons of, for example, feminism, but it's adept at putting that sheen on things. This, for me, is mostly apparent within Ellie's 3 days, and occurs less frequently for Abby (though it def still does).
I love that Ellie and Abby are star-crossed twins. They both reasonably want some kind of justice for the death of their father. Abby at the onset has obtained her justice and the emptiness that comes with it, and Ellie is ravenous for it. Yin and yang. Abby, then, begins an arc that echoes Joel's arc in TloU1. As she loses her friends and makes clear she is more than prepared to walk away from the WLF, she finds the meaning of her life in helping Lev and Yara, as Joel found the meaning of his in protecting Ellie.
Ellie, meanwhile, spends her entire arc sacrificing and pushing away the very things she would die to protect if she had a moment's perspective on her life. Ellie does not get a happy ending. Dina and JJ are gone, and there are notes missing from Ellie's song that she can never get back. At least she has that life that Joel slaughtered so many people to protect.
As for Abby... frankly I have too much affection for Abby to believe she succumbed to a bite, as the others told Ellie. The slaver dude Ellie kneecaps (what an awesome sequence) insists Abby's probably already turned, but not only has she not turned she's still herself enough to not want to fight.
I
think
Abby's
immune.
But I swear there were no other hints to it. I'mma replay and keep my eye open, but I dunno, man... We've seen people succumb to spores in this game near-instantly, and Tess's bite in the last game was festering and nasty within minutes.
I spent the entire final fight rooting for Abby. I watched Abby snap Ellie's arm and kill her like six times because I really didn't want to hurt her, and was so grateful when Ellie relented. I choose to believe Abby and Lev are just fine, on their way to join the fireflies and gear up for The Last of Us 3 : Look For The Light. Oh and I also wanna' say the boss fight Vs. Ellie was pretty fucking awesome.
Abby came out of her deepest darkness at the start of the game and staggered on, desperately searching for something good to do and believe in, and she found it in what she could mean to Lev. She never stopped looking for the light. She's such a hero.
I really liked it and I'm rollin' right into NG+, methinks.
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
Okay post-credit reactions. And I feel like someone was asking about the song in one of the areas near the end? I can't tell you the song name but that is without question The Black Angels.
Anyway - reactions!
I feel like Ellie's exploration of San Diego should've been at least twice as long, with a boss encounter or two to rival Abby's dance with The Thing. It needed to be both the Resort sequence (winter) and spring, with some over-the-top action wildness that met up with the calibur of Joel cleaning out the hospital at the end of 1. As it is, I feel like we got that sequence mostly from Abby cutting through the Scar village. Anyway, here nor there. I loved the gameplay of it front to back.
I don't want to go too deep into representation or shit in the story. I've said it feels like a skin the writer is wrapping around themselves like a security blanket, and that writer hasn't really internalized the lessons of, for example, feminism, but it's adept at putting that sheen on things. This, for me, is mostly apparent within Ellie's 3 days, and occurs less frequently for Abby (though it def still does).
I love that Ellie and Abby are star-crossed twins. They both reasonably want some kind of justice for the death of their father. Abby at the onset has obtained her justice and the emptiness that comes with it, and Ellie is ravenous for it. Yin and yang. Abby, then, begins an arc that echoes Joel's arc in TloU1. As she loses her friends and makes clear she is more than prepared to walk away from the WLF, she finds the meaning of her life in helping Lev and Yara, as Joel found the meaning of his in protecting Ellie.
Ellie, meanwhile, spends her entire arc sacrificing and pushing away the very things she would die to protect if she had a moment's perspective on her life. Ellie does not get a happy ending. Dina and JJ are gone, and there are notes missing from Ellie's song that she can never get back. At least she has that life that Joel slaughtered so many people to protect.
As for Abby... frankly I have too much affection for Abby to believe she succumbed to a bite, as the others told Ellie. The slaver dude Ellie kneecaps (what an awesome sequence) insists Abby's probably already turned, but not only has she not turned she's still herself enough to not want to fight.
I
think
Abby's
immune.
But I swear there were no other hints to it. I'mma replay and keep my eye open, but I dunno, man... We've seen people succumb to spores in this game near-instantly, and Tess's bite in the last game was festering and nasty within minutes.
I spent the entire final fight rooting for Abby. I watched Abby snap Ellie's arm and kill her like six times because I really didn't want to hurt her, and was so grateful when Ellie relented. I choose to believe Abby and Lev are just fine, on their way to join the fireflies and gear up for The Last of Us 3 : Look For The Light. Oh and I also wanna' say the boss fight Vs. Ellie was pretty fucking awesome.
Abby came out of her deepest darkness at the start of the game and staggered on, desperately searching for something good to do and believe in, and she found it in what she could mean to Lev. She never stopped looking for the light. She's such a hero.
I really liked it and I'm rollin' right into NG+, methinks.
I'm not sure why people seem to think
Abby was bitten. No one says that? The people you let out of the cage see that Ellie is bitten and they have that standoff and cautiously step around each other.
Abby is on the pillars because she tried to escape, not because she's bitten.
I do wonder if biting the fingers off of Ellie is going to maybe be bad for her, since Ellie does carry the infection.
Okay post-credit reactions. And I feel like someone was asking about the song in one of the areas near the end? I can't tell you the song name but that is without question The Black Angels.
Anyway - reactions!
I feel like Ellie's exploration of San Diego should've been at least twice as long, with a boss encounter or two to rival Abby's dance with The Thing. It needed to be both the Resort sequence (winter) and spring, with some over-the-top action wildness that met up with the calibur of Joel cleaning out the hospital at the end of 1. As it is, I feel like we got that sequence mostly from Abby cutting through the Scar village. Anyway, here nor there. I loved the gameplay of it front to back.
I don't want to go too deep into representation or shit in the story. I've said it feels like a skin the writer is wrapping around themselves like a security blanket, and that writer hasn't really internalized the lessons of, for example, feminism, but it's adept at putting that sheen on things. This, for me, is mostly apparent within Ellie's 3 days, and occurs less frequently for Abby (though it def still does).
I love that Ellie and Abby are star-crossed twins. They both reasonably want some kind of justice for the death of their father. Abby at the onset has obtained her justice and the emptiness that comes with it, and Ellie is ravenous for it. Yin and yang. Abby, then, begins an arc that echoes Joel's arc in TloU1. As she loses her friends and makes clear she is more than prepared to walk away from the WLF, she finds the meaning of her life in helping Lev and Yara, as Joel found the meaning of his in protecting Ellie.
Ellie, meanwhile, spends her entire arc sacrificing and pushing away the very things she would die to protect if she had a moment's perspective on her life. Ellie does not get a happy ending. Dina and JJ are gone, and there are notes missing from Ellie's song that she can never get back. At least she has that life that Joel slaughtered so many people to protect.
As for Abby... frankly I have too much affection for Abby to believe she succumbed to a bite, as the others told Ellie. The slaver dude Ellie kneecaps (what an awesome sequence) insists Abby's probably already turned, but not only has she not turned she's still herself enough to not want to fight.
I
think
Abby's
immune.
But I swear there were no other hints to it. I'mma replay and keep my eye open, but I dunno, man... We've seen people succumb to spores in this game near-instantly, and Tess's bite in the last game was festering and nasty within minutes.
I spent the entire final fight rooting for Abby. I watched Abby snap Ellie's arm and kill her like six times because I really didn't want to hurt her, and was so grateful when Ellie relented. I choose to believe Abby and Lev are just fine, on their way to join the fireflies and gear up for The Last of Us 3 : Look For The Light. Oh and I also wanna' say the boss fight Vs. Ellie was pretty fucking awesome.
Abby came out of her deepest darkness at the start of the game and staggered on, desperately searching for something good to do and believe in, and she found it in what she could mean to Lev. She never stopped looking for the light. She's such a hero.
I really liked it and I'm rollin' right into NG+, methinks.
I'm not sure why people seem to think
Abby was bitten. No one says that? The people you let out of the cage see that Ellie is bitten and they have that standoff and cautiously step around each other.
Abby is on the pillars because she tried to escape, not because she's bitten.
I do wonder if biting the fingers off of Ellie is going to maybe be bad for her, since Ellie does carry the infection.
Actually Ellie covers that earlier in a safe sex talk with Dina - no, she can't transmit the infection.
And I was sure the dude had said... eh whatever I'll play it again ^.^
Chance on
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
Yeah, you and bsjezz had same misunderstanding (END SPOILERS):
In both instances, people are commenting on a visible bite that Ellie suffers when she "tricks" the Slaver into getting too close to the clicker that is hung nearby; as no one knows Ellie is immune, they assume she's soon to turn.
My quick overall, quick, non spoilery thoughts on the game.
8 or 9 out of 10.
Pacing is terrible at about the halfway point on, but the story demanded it....which is odd. I was trying to think of some things I'd cut out to slim it up a bit, but I struggled due to how they went with the story. A lot of what killed the pacing was needed because of what the story was that they told.
Additionally, due to it being a game, they had to structure like they did so one wouldn't mess up what abilities were unlocked / mess up what they had scrounged....I guess.
My biggest issues were pacing and, yes, story. I get what they were going for, but it felt like they had the story in mind and forced events to make sure it went how they wanted versus it being a more organic story. What I mean by that is specifically all the heavy handed events that happen to encourage you to empathize.
More spoilery, specific stuff, likes / dislikes / discussion of characters and their paths in the game, and of mercy -
I liked Abby. I felt this was impressive as I wanted her to die, initially.
A lot of the bullshit to get me to like her and the team/dogs was a bit much. Part of the reason the pacing felt terrible after you begin playing as her is "Okay, you want me to like her, I GET IT. These dogs can play and are nice, I GET IT." That and the fact that you switch to her on a cliffhanger and take a lot of hours to get back to it. A lot of hours.
I didn't like what the story intended versus what was shown. Specific example, Abby and Owen showing mercy is directly attributable to all of Abby's friends getting offed by the Goddess of Vengeance, Ellie. Similarly, Joel and Tommy being kind gets Joel killed almost immediately.
"But Biz, if Abby hadn't let Ellie go, Ellie wouldn't have saved them from the slavers!"
This is so far in the future from Joel dying as to be irrelevant. One could argue "Well, if Ellie and Tommy were dead, maybe that changes the timeline a bit so Abby and Lev don't get jumped as easily by Rattlers (the house was not a trap), the WLF doesn't lose multiple squads of people in the lead up to their now failed assault on the Seraphites, maybe a living Owen is with them to assist with the Rattlers" etc.
Mercy also didn't feel right, given the universe. The Last of Us 2 is GRIMDARK. I play 40k, I know . Abby and the team not offing Tommy and Ellie needed to happen for the story to happen, but it felt bizarre. Why not kill them? Morals? In this world? Mercy is almost never rewarded and it basically gets Abby's entire team killed. It's not even a circle of vengeance, thing. No one in Jackson knew they were there or where they were from (although having their WLF stuff on their gear AND letting Ellie and Tommy live is a choice, but one that we can ignore). There would have been no retaliation.
The writers wanted Ellie to be traumatized by seeing Joel having been tortured and his brutal death, but didn't want her or Tommy dead. How they did it felt...poor.
But yeah, overall? 8 or 9 out of 10. Attention to detail is amazing, graphics are amazing, voice actors were amazing, the play length is worthwhile. Just the pacing and I wasn't a fan of certain parts of the story.
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Abby was bitten. No one says that? The people you let out of the cage see that Ellie is bitten and they have that standoff and cautiously step around each other.
Abby is on the pillars because she tried to escape, not because she's bitten.
I do wonder if biting the fingers off of Ellie is going to maybe be bad for her, since Ellie does carry the infection.
Theorycrafting why people keep getting the wrong interpretation of that scene.
I don't think people are noticing they literally point at....
....Ellie when they talk about being bitten. That and it is fast, they were just talking about Abby, and it might be a few voices talking at once.
But yes, Abby is definitely NOT bitten, but considering the end scene shows Abby and Lev make it to the Fireflies, Abby appears fine. Or at least Lev made it to the Fireflies after they turned....but they both lived.
XBL: Bizazedo
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Abby was bitten. No one says that? The people you let out of the cage see that Ellie is bitten and they have that standoff and cautiously step around each other.
Abby is on the pillars because she tried to escape, not because she's bitten.
I do wonder if biting the fingers off of Ellie is going to maybe be bad for her, since Ellie does carry the infection.
Theorycrafting why people keep getting the wrong interpretation of that scene.
I don't think people are noticing they literally point at....
....Ellie when they talk about being bitten. That and it is fast, they were just talking about Abby, and it might be a few voices talking at once.
But yes, Abby is definitely NOT bitten, but considering the end scene shows Abby and Lev make it to the Fireflies, Abby appears fine. Or at least Lev made it to the Fireflies after they turned....but they both lived.
WHAT.
Where was that scene?
Abby and Lev get in the boat after Ellie relents, Ellie goes home to the farm and can't play guitar, Ellie leaves the house, credits roll.
Where was it shown that Abby and Lev made it to the fireflies?
That's certainly my internal canon, but I didn't see it.
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
i liked the ending. i think if she hadn't literally lost two fingers the guitar symbolism would have been better. what's interesting to me is how her forgiveness of joel is tied to her experience seeking revenge. i believe the implication is that through it all - and maybe the reason she couldn't let him go - was that she held onto that anger to joel even after his death.
joel's decision denied her meaning, which is why she was so quick to take up the 'meaning' of a revenge quest. i think that plays into it
the absolute clutch moment in the narrative was selling us on her final decision to hunt abby. i didn't think they could do it. but between her journal and confronting it head on by having her justify herself to dina, they pulled it off
oh my god did i love the slaver house raid. so pulpy. i laughed out loud when i picked up the silenced submachine gun, and the neil young track grinding on loop made perfecting that section a gloriously sleazy reward. picked up exactly where the hotline miami wink left off
as for abby - gonna revisit some of the earlier comments now, but i think if anything the ending sides with the haters? it's not a dignified conclusion for her. in the grand scale of things she wound up being more peripheral than it felt like it could go.
yara's a goner but she's also somehow my first bet for a DLC character. her 'death' was easily as ambiguous as tommy's
Off-topic spoiler RE: The ending and the guitar:
It actually reminded me of one of the most famous guitar players of all time, Django Reinhardt, who lost use of his ring finger and pinky finger in a horrific accident, and still became a prominent jazz guitar player. I'm like "Ellie's gonna play like Django!" when I saw the hand.
Obscure knowledge of French jazz association here.
Also, RE the last one:
Uh, no? She was shot a hobillion times, riddled with bullets after she shoots Isaac. She's dead-dead.
+3
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Abby was bitten. No one says that? The people you let out of the cage see that Ellie is bitten and they have that standoff and cautiously step around each other.
Abby is on the pillars because she tried to escape, not because she's bitten.
I do wonder if biting the fingers off of Ellie is going to maybe be bad for her, since Ellie does carry the infection.
Theorycrafting why people keep getting the wrong interpretation of that scene.
I don't think people are noticing they literally point at....
....Ellie when they talk about being bitten. That and it is fast, they were just talking about Abby, and it might be a few voices talking at once.
But yes, Abby is definitely NOT bitten, but considering the end scene shows Abby and Lev make it to the Fireflies, Abby appears fine. Or at least Lev made it to the Fireflies after they turned....but they both lived.
WHAT.
Where was that scene?
Abby and Lev get in the boat after Ellie relents, Ellie goes home to the farm and can't play guitar, Ellie leaves the house, credits roll.
Where was it shown that Abby and Lev made it to the fireflies?
That's certainly my internal canon, but I didn't see it.
Have you, by any chance, looked at the title screen since beating the game.
RE: Mercy, I think the central thesis of the game is:
Ellie's final line to Joel in the last flashback, where she says "I don't know if I can forgive you for what you did..." *pause* "But I'd like to try." This is what makes her stop. Her final memory of Joel became not about his death, although she's likely to be haunted by that for the rest of her life, but about their last moments of life together. Her guilt isn't that she never got to say goodbye... it's that she wanted to turn things around and try to be a family again, and she was robbed of that. But the sentiment of "You're a monster... and I want to try to accept that and forgive it" is the message, I feel, the game was going for. "How do you forgive a monster?" Both Abby and Ellie come to that realization in different ways, and it's not easy for them.
My biggest issues were pacing and, yes, story. I get what they were going for, but it felt like they had the story in mind and forced events to make sure it went how they wanted versus it being a more organic story.
I think my issue, and I get that it's a video game and all, is that a LOT of shit goes down in only 3 days. Like, holy shit. It's like multiple seasons of "24" stacked on top of each other.
Abby was bitten. No one says that? The people you let out of the cage see that Ellie is bitten and they have that standoff and cautiously step around each other.
Abby is on the pillars because she tried to escape, not because she's bitten.
I do wonder if biting the fingers off of Ellie is going to maybe be bad for her, since Ellie does carry the infection.
Theorycrafting why people keep getting the wrong interpretation of that scene.
I don't think people are noticing they literally point at....
....Ellie when they talk about being bitten. That and it is fast, they were just talking about Abby, and it might be a few voices talking at once.
But yes, Abby is definitely NOT bitten, but considering the end scene shows Abby and Lev make it to the Fireflies, Abby appears fine. Or at least Lev made it to the Fireflies after they turned....but they both lived.
Also:
Apparently, the Rattlers like to keep Infected around as pets, because they are sick bastards? I'd imagine that would be Abby's fate if she was bitten.
RE: Mercy, I think the central thesis of the game is:
Ellie's final line to Joel in the last flashback, where she says "I don't know if I can forgive you for what you did..." *pause* "But I'd like to try." This is what makes her stop. Her final memory of Joel became not about his death, although she's likely to be haunted by that for the rest of her life, but about their last moments of life together. Her guilt isn't that she never got to say goodbye... it's that she wanted to turn things around and try to be a family again, and she was robbed of that. But the sentiment of "You're a monster... and I want to try to accept that and forgive it" is the message, I feel, the game was going for. "How do you forgive a monster?" Both Abby and Ellie come to that realization in different ways, and it's not easy for them.
That's my read, as stated a couple times in different posts, albeit in brief.
Also, a recent FULL SPOILERS interview says an earlier draft of the script was 5 Days, which may explain its overwhelming density.
I think that’s Biz’s imagination, aka “theorycrafting”.
Negative, that bit isn't theorycrafting. Look at the title screen now that you and @Chance have beaten the game. There was an interview that also confirmed it.
I think my issue, and I get that it's a video game and all, is that a LOT of shit goes down in only 3 days. Like, holy shit. It's like multiple seasons of "24" stacked on top of each other.
It does, and I agree, but some stuff like that is just suspension of disbelief. I am okay with that level of suspension of disbelief. This isn't Rise of Skywalker .
RE: Mercy, I think the central thesis of the game is:
I agree and that was easily the best written line in the game, from Ellie, I just feel that thesis clashes with the actual lessons the game shows (mercy is frequently a mistake) and also clashes with the post apocalyptic world they live in.
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I think that’s Biz’s imagination, aka “theorycrafting”.
Negative, that bit isn't theorycrafting. Look at the title screen now that you and @Chance have beaten the game. There was an interview that also confirmed it.
I want to see this interview now, 'cause I don't feel like the title screen confirms shit - or even suggests it.
There's the boat, about 500 yards or so from the big building where the Rattlers kept their prisoners. It's a very distinctive building. That doesn't say "they got to the fireflies" to me at all.
Chance on
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
I think that’s Biz’s imagination, aka “theorycrafting”.
Negative, that bit isn't theorycrafting. Look at the title screen now that you and @Chance have beaten the game. There was an interview that also confirmed it.
I want to see this interview now, 'cause I don't feel like the title screen confirms shit - or even suggests it.
There's the boat, about 500 yards or so from the big building where the Rattlers kept their prisoners. It's a very distinctive building. That doesn't say "they got to the fireflies" to me at all.
Wrong building.
that's a circular building but not the same circular building. That's the catalina island building. It's a real building on catalina Island.
+1
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I think that’s Biz’s imagination, aka “theorycrafting”.
Negative, that bit isn't theorycrafting. Look at the title screen now that you and @Chance have beaten the game. There was an interview that also confirmed it.
I want to see this interview now, 'cause I don't feel like the title screen confirms shit - or even suggests it.
There's the boat, about 500 yards or so from the big building where the Rattlers kept their prisoners. It's a very distinctive building. That doesn't say "they got to the fireflies" to me at all.
Ummm.
That building is not the Rattlers one. It’s specifically the one the Fireflies talk about. It is definitively them - especially as the Rattlers building was set on fire and destroyed.
I had the same view as Chance, having no first-hand knowledge of the actual region and seeing a very similar building. And with no visible people, nor symbols, decoding it as what y'all say it is would certainly require that first-hand knowledge.
Also (ENDGAME SPOILERS):
I was under the impression the person on the other end of the CB radio was a Rattler, that the whole thing had been a trap. But I guess they simply intercepted the transmission or had spotted Abby and Lev and were stalking them?
Yeah, it's easy to miss. There's no shame in thinking what you or Chance thought, Meta. There are enough clues in the game to tell you the answer without the interview, but....hell, I wouldn't have realized it either had I not been with someone who recognized the building.
Well, the detail Aegeri points out is also a tipoff, but still.
Major spoilers in this interview with Kurt Margenau, Co-Director of The Last of Us Part II, but here's what you wanted Chance.
That was not a trap by the Rattlers, just coincidence. Abby was speaking to the real Fireflies. Whether the Rattlers knew about the place and were staking it out to capture people? Who knows . If only Owen were alive and not slain by Ellie, maybe they would've evaded capture haha!
Bizazedo on
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Yeah, it's easy to miss. There's no shame in thinking what you or Chance thought, Meta. There are enough clues in the game to tell you the answer without the interview, but....hell, I wouldn't have realized it either had I not been with someone who recognized the building.
Well, the detail Aegeri points out is also a tipoff, but still.
Major spoilers in this interview with Kurt Margenau, Co-Director of The Last of Us Part II, but here's what you wanted Chance.
That was not a trap by the Rattlers, just coincidence. Abby was speaking to the real Fireflies. Whether the Rattlers knew about the place and were staking it out to capture people? Who knows . If only Owen were alive and not slain by Ellie, maybe they would've evaded capture haha!
Ohhh well it looked an awful lot like the other building. Like, enough that I wonder why the heck they made the other building look so much like - whatever.
If Owen were alive, he woulda' been the first to die!
The only problem I have with Owen dying is how sad it makes Abby, 'cause she legit loved the guy. Also am I the only one who thought Lev was dead when the Rattler bashed his head into the garage door? Like his neck went boing and he just ragdolled.
I was sure he was dead >.<
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
Posts
God damn jobs right?!?
some things to think about!
joel's decision denied her meaning, which is why she was so quick to take up the 'meaning' of a revenge quest. i think that plays into it
the absolute clutch moment in the narrative was selling us on her final decision to hunt abby. i didn't think they could do it. but between her journal and confronting it head on by having her justify herself to dina, they pulled it off
oh my god did i love the slaver house raid. so pulpy. i laughed out loud when i picked up the silenced submachine gun, and the neil young track grinding on loop made perfecting that section a gloriously sleazy reward. picked up exactly where the hotline miami wink left off
as for abby - gonna revisit some of the earlier comments now, but i think if anything the ending sides with the haters? it's not a dignified conclusion for her. in the grand scale of things she wound up being more peripheral than it felt like it could go.
yara's a goner but she's also somehow my first bet for a DLC character. her 'death' was easily as ambiguous as tommy's
Kinda' neat. Man's viciousness begot the cult.
i don't really agree
partly i can see what you mean because i'm also often frustrated by stories that are just 'catching up' to more recent plot events that have already happened. in this case though i don't think you can pull off the central conceit without it, and they did it very well
and at the very least that last flashback - the conversation where we hear that ellie's going to "try" to forgive him - is so important to end the narrative. it's the little recontextualising kicker that reminds us there's more at play than the blind, fumbling vengeance of two very similar, very human women
because ellie's story is not the same as anyone's
she and abby both got bit in the epilogue
only abby gets to die
Yara's death isn't really ambiguous as she got machine gunned by multiple people while on the ground and was left on the ground in enemy territory. Even ignoring the unlikely possibility of surviving what happened to her, there's no way the WLF or the Seraphites nurse her to health. She is quite dead.
That and her only real point to existing was to further get us to know Lev.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Even if things go downhill from here up to this point has been some of the most incredible stuff I've seen in a game. Cheesey pete.
i now REALLY wish i hadn't misinterpreted that "she's bit" line (how could they see? wasn't the bite tiny?) because it recolours that whole fistfight
fuck. i do not have time to replay this game right now...
edit: it did strike me that
AHHHH WHY DID I CLICK THAT I'D KEPT MYSELF SO PUUUUUURE
Nah you’re okay. He’s actually wrong on a core point there so you’ll be fine when you get to the end.
Whew. Thank you. And now my daily work is actually done so unless an email pops up and I make the egregious error of reading it... ON TO THE ENNNND!
I didn't recognize it, but I'm not sure you're that far off base.
Yeah, Epilogue Spoilers:
i do think the game ultimately
i don't think that necessarily contradicts its ambition to humanise the enemy. i think you can empathise with someone and also feel like, well, you lost your innocence with that choice - to go to war, to fight back with violence, to bring someone else out of innocence - so now you're playing for keeps. i'm allowed to kill you.
edit: in a world defined by genre, that is. not saying murder is justifiable irl, however heinous your victim's crimes, heh heh heh
...
IT JUST KEEPS GOING
Not that I recall.
Anyway - reactions!
I don't want to go too deep into representation or shit in the story. I've said it feels like a skin the writer is wrapping around themselves like a security blanket, and that writer hasn't really internalized the lessons of, for example, feminism, but it's adept at putting that sheen on things. This, for me, is mostly apparent within Ellie's 3 days, and occurs less frequently for Abby (though it def still does).
I love that Ellie and Abby are star-crossed twins. They both reasonably want some kind of justice for the death of their father. Abby at the onset has obtained her justice and the emptiness that comes with it, and Ellie is ravenous for it. Yin and yang. Abby, then, begins an arc that echoes Joel's arc in TloU1. As she loses her friends and makes clear she is more than prepared to walk away from the WLF, she finds the meaning of her life in helping Lev and Yara, as Joel found the meaning of his in protecting Ellie.
Ellie, meanwhile, spends her entire arc sacrificing and pushing away the very things she would die to protect if she had a moment's perspective on her life. Ellie does not get a happy ending. Dina and JJ are gone, and there are notes missing from Ellie's song that she can never get back. At least she has that life that Joel slaughtered so many people to protect.
As for Abby... frankly I have too much affection for Abby to believe she succumbed to a bite, as the others told Ellie. The slaver dude Ellie kneecaps (what an awesome sequence) insists Abby's probably already turned, but not only has she not turned she's still herself enough to not want to fight.
I
think
Abby's
immune.
But I swear there were no other hints to it. I'mma replay and keep my eye open, but I dunno, man... We've seen people succumb to spores in this game near-instantly, and Tess's bite in the last game was festering and nasty within minutes.
I spent the entire final fight rooting for Abby. I watched Abby snap Ellie's arm and kill her like six times because I really didn't want to hurt her, and was so grateful when Ellie relented. I choose to believe Abby and Lev are just fine, on their way to join the fireflies and gear up for The Last of Us 3 : Look For The Light. Oh and I also wanna' say the boss fight Vs. Ellie was pretty fucking awesome.
Abby came out of her deepest darkness at the start of the game and staggered on, desperately searching for something good to do and believe in, and she found it in what she could mean to Lev. She never stopped looking for the light. She's such a hero.
I really liked it and I'm rollin' right into NG+, methinks.
I'm not sure why people seem to think
Abby is on the pillars because she tried to escape, not because she's bitten.
I do wonder if biting the fingers off of Ellie is going to maybe be bad for her, since Ellie does carry the infection.
Actually Ellie covers that earlier in a safe sex talk with Dina - no, she can't transmit the infection.
And I was sure the dude had said... eh whatever I'll play it again ^.^
8 or 9 out of 10.
Pacing is terrible at about the halfway point on, but the story demanded it....which is odd. I was trying to think of some things I'd cut out to slim it up a bit, but I struggled due to how they went with the story. A lot of what killed the pacing was needed because of what the story was that they told.
Additionally, due to it being a game, they had to structure like they did so one wouldn't mess up what abilities were unlocked / mess up what they had scrounged....I guess.
My biggest issues were pacing and, yes, story. I get what they were going for, but it felt like they had the story in mind and forced events to make sure it went how they wanted versus it being a more organic story. What I mean by that is specifically all the heavy handed events that happen to encourage you to empathize.
More spoilery, specific stuff, likes / dislikes / discussion of characters and their paths in the game, and of mercy -
A lot of the bullshit to get me to like her and the team/dogs was a bit much. Part of the reason the pacing felt terrible after you begin playing as her is "Okay, you want me to like her, I GET IT. These dogs can play and are nice, I GET IT." That and the fact that you switch to her on a cliffhanger and take a lot of hours to get back to it. A lot of hours.
I didn't like what the story intended versus what was shown. Specific example, Abby and Owen showing mercy is directly attributable to all of Abby's friends getting offed by the Goddess of Vengeance, Ellie. Similarly, Joel and Tommy being kind gets Joel killed almost immediately.
"But Biz, if Abby hadn't let Ellie go, Ellie wouldn't have saved them from the slavers!"
This is so far in the future from Joel dying as to be irrelevant. One could argue "Well, if Ellie and Tommy were dead, maybe that changes the timeline a bit so Abby and Lev don't get jumped as easily by Rattlers (the house was not a trap), the WLF doesn't lose multiple squads of people in the lead up to their now failed assault on the Seraphites, maybe a living Owen is with them to assist with the Rattlers" etc.
Mercy also didn't feel right, given the universe. The Last of Us 2 is GRIMDARK. I play 40k, I know
The writers wanted Ellie to be traumatized by seeing Joel having been tortured and his brutal death, but didn't want her or Tommy dead. How they did it felt...poor.
But yeah, overall? 8 or 9 out of 10. Attention to detail is amazing, graphics are amazing, voice actors were amazing, the play length is worthwhile. Just the pacing and I wasn't a fan of certain parts of the story.
PSN: Bizazedo
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I don't think people are noticing they literally point at....
But yes, Abby is definitely NOT bitten, but considering the end scene shows Abby and Lev make it to the Fireflies, Abby appears fine. Or at least Lev made it to the Fireflies after they turned....but they both lived.
PSN: Bizazedo
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WHAT.
Where was that scene?
Where was it shown that Abby and Lev made it to the fireflies?
That's certainly my internal canon, but I didn't see it.
Obscure knowledge of French jazz association here.
Also, RE the last one:
Have you, by any chance, looked at the title screen since beating the game.
You totally should.
That's my read, as stated a couple times in different posts, albeit in brief.
Also, a recent FULL SPOILERS interview says an earlier draft of the script was 5 Days, which may explain its overwhelming density.
It does, and I agree, but some stuff like that is just suspension of disbelief. I am okay with that level of suspension of disbelief. This isn't Rise of Skywalker
I agree and that was easily the best written line in the game, from Ellie, I just feel that thesis clashes with the actual lessons the game shows (mercy is frequently a mistake) and also clashes with the post apocalyptic world they live in.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
I want to see this interview now, 'cause I don't feel like the title screen confirms shit - or even suggests it.
Wrong building.
Ummm.
It is this building:
Also (ENDGAME SPOILERS):
Well, the detail Aegeri points out is also a tipoff, but still.
Major spoilers in this interview with Kurt Margenau, Co-Director of The Last of Us Part II, but here's what you wanted Chance.
https://press-start.com.au/features/2020/06/18/we-chatted-to-naughty-dog-about-the-last-of-us-part-ii-spoilers-leaks-themes-and-brutality/
But, Metaghost, you are correct about....
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Ohhh well it looked an awful lot like the other building. Like, enough that I wonder why the heck they made the other building look so much like - whatever.
The only problem I have with Owen dying is how sad it makes Abby, 'cause she legit loved the guy. Also am I the only one who thought Lev was dead when the Rattler bashed his head into the garage door? Like his neck went boing and he just ragdolled.
I was sure he was dead >.<