Updates on [SARS2/covid-19] (reboot)

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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Dumb media reports: "Why is Africa doing so well in the pandemic? Is it because [stupid speculation]?"

    Zimbabwean doctor: The health systems are no longer functioning. "There are many more people dying." The already-overstretched medical systems have come apart, so there is massive undertesting across the continent. Excess deaths are high, but people are just dying at home so they aren't counted. Reporting systems are basically nonexistent across many countries. The wealthy and powerful can go abroad for treatment, and the rest are left to die.

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  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    So the governor of Massachusetts is requiring all students from 6 months and up who attend childcare up to college to get a flu shot this year.

    People are up in arms about it. Parents still have a choice of not vaccinating their children, they just have to homeschool them.

    Are enough people going to take a Covid vaccine if we get it for it to be effective in wiping out the virus? This leads me to be believe it'll be difficult.

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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    So the governor of Massachusetts is requiring all students from 6 months and up who attend childcare up to college to get a flu shot this year.

    People are up in arms about it. Parents still have a choice of not vaccinating their children, they just have to homeschool them.

    Are enough people going to take a Covid vaccine if we get it for it to be effective in wiping out the virus? This leads me to be believe it'll be difficult.

    Good for the governor. That should be normal anyway. Flu shots are a good thing for kids to get in normal years.

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  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    We require MMR shots and a number of other vaccinations already for school attendance, flu should have been on there from the start.

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  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    So the governor of Massachusetts is requiring all students from 6 months and up who attend childcare up to college to get a flu shot this year.

    People are up in arms about it. Parents still have a choice of not vaccinating their children, they just have to homeschool them.

    Are enough people going to take a Covid vaccine if we get it for it to be effective in wiping out the virus? This leads me to be believe it'll be difficult.

    No masks, Qanon shirts. Checks out.

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  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    So the governor of Massachusetts is requiring all students from 6 months and up who attend childcare up to college to get a flu shot this year.

    People are up in arms about it. Parents still have a choice of not vaccinating their children, they just have to homeschool them.

    Are enough people going to take a Covid vaccine if we get it for it to be effective in wiping out the virus? This leads me to be believe it'll be difficult.

    No masks, Qanon shirts. Checks out.

    I like the last photo, with the "Mask hygiene, more effective no side effects" sign. In a crowd where 90% of people aren't wearing masks.

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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    We require MMR shots and a number of other vaccinations already for school attendance, flu should have been on there from the start.

    Japan used to have mandatory flu shots for all students. When they stopped, the death rate of the elderly shot up, because kids in school are a major disease vector.


    Anyway, in SARS2 updates, BNO News has created a reinfection tracker for confirmed reinfection cases, including the location, age of the patient, interval between the cases, and how bad the cases were. So far, there are eight known reinfection cases.

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  • GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    Mayabird wrote: »
    Enc wrote: »
    We require MMR shots and a number of other vaccinations already for school attendance, flu should have been on there from the start.

    Japan used to have mandatory flu shots for all students. When they stopped, the death rate of the elderly shot up, because kids in school are a major disease vector.


    Anyway, in SARS2 updates, BNO News has created a reinfection tracker for confirmed reinfection cases, including the location, age of the patient, interval between the cases, and how bad the cases were. So far, there are eight known reinfection cases.
    Those guys have just been doing yeoman work during this whole thing.

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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    In today's episode of What? They Can Do That?, the CDC ordered what looks like a near-total residential eviction moratorium across the United States.

    Under the terms of the order, tenants who (1) can't afford rent, (2) earn under $99,000 and (3) can't find living arrangements that don't involve homelessness or "living with more people in close proximity" can't be evicted, full stop, with the government threatening prosecution of landlords who evict people anyway.

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  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    Just waiting for the batshit crazy 3rd amendment cases that are going to come out of this.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    Just waiting for the batshit crazy 3rd amendment cases that are going to come out of this.

    ...I hadn't even considered that, but technically yeah, sure, that could apply in the literal sense.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    So an article about bradykinin possibly being an issue with COVID.
    Excess of the inflammatory molecule bradykinin may explain the fluid build-up in the lungs of patients with coronavirus infections. Clinical trials of inhibitors are putting this hypothesis to the test.

    Not a magic bullet of course.

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Mayabird wrote: »
    Dumb media reports: "Why is Africa doing so well in the pandemic? Is it because [stupid speculation]?"

    Zimbabwean doctor: The health systems are no longer functioning. "There are many more people dying." The already-overstretched medical systems have come apart, so there is massive undertesting across the continent. Excess deaths are high, but people are just dying at home so they aren't counted. Reporting systems are basically nonexistent across many countries. The wealthy and powerful can go abroad for treatment, and the rest are left to die.

    Yep. People get mad about the statistics of X or Y country, but governments have every motivation to either not release the real numbers or just not count them the first place, nevermind the ones that can't.

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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular


    India reported over 87,000 new cases in one day. For a comparison, China's total official case number count is a bit over 85,000.

    India is reporting so many new cases because they have been rapidly increasing the number of tests, over a million daily and rising. Their positivity rate went just over 10% a couple weeks ago but has been dipping back down below that again. In total caseload, they are likely to pass Brazil in a few days, but Brazil's testing seems to have plateaued months ago (although actual numbers of tests and their positivity rate hasn't been released in months, so I can't be sure). Meanwhile, testing in the US has been declining.

    [As for India's seemingly low death rate - it's likely much higher than what's officially reported, but that's speculation more for the general thread.]

    GiantGeek2020
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    While thise numbers are quite large, and should be noted, it should also be noted that India's population is massive. More than four times that of the USA. So while 87K is a lot of sick people (and is likely underreported), and they've been over 50K daily for the past month, that's less than a similar percentage of the US have had since March.

    It's absolutely going to get worse in India. I'm just concerned that comparisons based on count give an incorrect assessment of the current situation.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    A lot of people in Indian slums have no hope of affording healthcare, so they are unlikely to be counted in any sort of stats except “excess deaths.”

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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    So South Dakota, thanks to your idiotic motorcycle rally, there's already outbreaks in twelve states, at least one death, and your state positivity rate just reached 15% and is still rising. What have you learned?

    South Dakota: "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! It's STATE FAIR TIME!"


    Apropos of nothing, South Dakota was worse than a mistake. The Dakota territory was split in two for Republican political gains - the white settlers were very dominantly Republican voters, so two states meant double the electoral votes and Senate seats.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    The Dakotas should really be one state. They are a modern-day “rotten borough”

  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    The Dakotas should really be one state. They are a modern-day “rotten borough”

    Merge them back together and make DC a state.

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  • timspork's ghosttimspork's ghost Master Librarian and Ghostbuster Registered User regular
    Hell, we’ll take the bullet down here and join then back with us in Nebraska, then also make Puerto Rico a state.

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  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
    Or just abolish the stupid Senate and get to the heart of the problem

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  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    Or just abolish the stupid Senate and get to the heart of the problem

    But how will the President maintain control without the bureaucracy?

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Taramoor wrote: »
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    Or just abolish the stupid Senate and get to the heart of the problem

    But how will the President maintain control without the bureaucracy?

    I know what you're doing, but the Senate isn't the bureaucracy.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Taramoor wrote: »
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    Or just abolish the stupid Senate and get to the heart of the problem

    But how will the President maintain control without the bureaucracy?

    The regional governors will have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local states and counties in line. Fear of this battle station.

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  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    Dis' wrote: »
    Tox wrote: »
    Mayabird wrote: »
    Anxiety among 13 and 14 year olds has dropped since the lockdowns according to one survey. As an introvert who went to a hellschool, I could totally see myself this way. School for so many is just constant stress, full of hormone-monsters and sadistic teachers who are just there to try to assert their authority and high pressure to succeed despite the crushing weight of reality and your own vulnerable awkwardness. Getting away from that would be a godsend for many. Read, do your work without interruptions, and you don't have to worry about being surrounded by savages who are looking for any opening, any moment of weakness, to hurt you.

    The survey was specifically for British schoolchildren, but I could see this for plenty of other places as well. Suicides in Japan dropped by 20% during the lockdowns, probably for similar reasons. Our cultures are broken and toxic. That "normal" that people supposedly crave going back to was endless demeaning emotional oppression.


    Yes I know people are going to try to immediately jump in here to say "What about domestic violence or whatever?" Yes, I know, extroverts aren't having a great time and this is very bad for a lot of people, but even in this very bad situation, that overall whole demographics are finding it less bad than what they had before shows how rotten and messed up our societies are. Also, the norms of those societies are what led us to this situation in the first place.

    You also have to consider how many students went from having to get up between 5-5:30a for school, versus now being able to sleep in until well past 7. Plus, not only do that get that much more sleep time, they get nearly as much more time at home to work on school work and study and whatnot, so they are not only sleeping more, but also have more time to work with outside of school and sleep, so they actually have less stress to manage and more time to manage it.

    Funny how that works.

    For the anxiety study UK schools thankfully have later start times than US ones (though not the 9.30/10 they probably should be) and have much shorter commutes to school so hard to gauge that relative effect.

    I'm not sure if this trend would carry over to the us. Us suicide rates has been increasing for the last decade, at least. And, more specifically, one in four us teens has contemplated suicide during the pandemic according to recent surveys.

    Link is from NYPost, presumable because they want people to go back to work/school and this is a good point in their favour, but you can find other sources using the same survey if you'd like.

    https://nypost.com/2020/08/13/1-in-4-young-adults-in-the-us-contemplated-suicide-during-pandemic/

  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    CA has a new system where counties have color rankings to indicate severity, starting at purple and going down from there.

    But like, they are letting salons and stuff open at purple so I am not sure what the point is.

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  • JeanJean Papa bear Gatineau, QuébecRegistered User regular
    Québec just dopted a regional alert system with 4 rankings
    • Level 1 , Green , Vigilance. Normal measures
    • Level 2, Yellow, Pre-Alert. Reinforced normal measures
    • Level 3, Orange , Moderate alert. Intermediate measures
    • Level 4, Red , Maximal alert. Maximal measures

    (Translation's mine. French article here : https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1732162/coronavirus-christian-dube-regions-alertes-couleurs)

    4 regions are in yellow, mine included!

    fkc3fpvup8sk.jpg

    We recently had a bad spreading even at a resto-bar. 10 employees got infected and they infected some customers, too. To my knowledge, that's the worse spreading event so far in my city!

    "You won't destroy us, You won't destroy our democracy. We are a small but proud nation. No one can bomb us to silence. No one can scare us from being Norway. This evening and tonight, we'll take care of each other. That's what we do best when attacked'' - Jens Stoltenberg
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    The Oxford/AstraZenica phase 3 trial was just suspended due to adverse effects.

    They were first into phase 3.

  • evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    The Oxford/AstraZenica phase 3 trial was just suspended due to adverse effects.

    They were first into phase 3.

    https://www.statnews.com/2020/09/08/astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-study-put-on-hold-due-to-suspected-adverse-reaction-in-participant-in-the-u-k/
    This was one person; it looks like they put it on hold while they investigate, but the vaccine isn't out of the picture or anything.

    TetraNitroCubane
  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    edited September 8
    And this is why taking your time through phase 3 trials is important. This could be a one-off fluke, or it could be the first case in a more widespread reaction.

    Investigating fully is essential.

    Edit: I will say this much - If we're talking about a single person in a phase 3 trial having an adverse event, and Astrazenica is the party pumping the breaks, this is likely a quite serious event whatever it is. They wouldn't put the trial on hold for a headache or a mild fever.

    Again, more data needs to be collected to find out if it was the vaccine or something unrelated, but whatever happened to this individual must've been severe.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited September 9
    And this is why taking your time through phase 3 trials is important. This could be a one-off fluke, or it could be the first case in a more widespread reaction.

    Investigating fully is essential.

    Edit: I will say this much - If we're talking about a single person in a phase 3 trial having an adverse event, and Astrazenica is the party pumping the breaks, this is likely a quite serious event whatever it is. They wouldn't put the trial on hold for a headache or a mild fever.

    Again, more data needs to be collected to find out if it was the vaccine or something unrelated, but whatever happened to this individual must've been severe.

    A serious event would be anything worse than a headache or mild fever, pretty much anything which led to any kind of hospitalization which wasn't immediately explainables. Participant has a peanut allergy, doesn't know it, eats a peanut and goes to hospital with severe hives and swelling then that would halt the trial pending an investigation. Literally, anything that isn't caused by something mechanical.

    We're effectively saying that of the ~ 10-20 thousand people who have recieved the vaccine in the trials (remember Astra is running multiple phase 3 studies worldwide) one has been hospitalized for something weird. Astra is absolutely required to take swift action for all sorts of safety criteria if they become aware of them. This isn't them 'deciding', this is them becoming aware of something and taking action according to a set of clearly agreed upon rules. If they ignored the event and kept dosing, then they would fail the phase 3 trial even if they succeeded (in non Covid times at least)

    There is absolutely nothing weird or strange about this. This is how wide scale trials work all the time. It's neither more or less mysterious that Astra stopped it. Although, one thing that that does mean is that they don't likely know whether or not it occurred in a placebo recipient, though, they should know that as soon as the independant adjudicator decides its OK to unblind that one patient.

    edit - Adverse event is apparantly transverse myelitis

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-astrazeneca/astrazeneca-puts-leading-covid-19-vaccine-trial-on-hold-over-safety-concern-idUSKBN25Z392

    This has been often proposed as a side effect of vaccines, but every study done into it has found that no approved vaccine causes it

    https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/63/11/1456/2526239

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  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    The phase 3 trials have a targeted endpoint of 30k people. They probably have a few hundred/thousand currently in the program. I would wager money it is less than 10k, currently.

    Clinical trials have long vetting processes.

  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    The phase 3 trials have a targeted endpoint of 30k people. They probably have a few hundred/thousand currently in the program. I would wager money it is less than 10k, currently.

    Clinical trials have long vetting processes.

    You would have lost that bet. 17000 dosed already worldwide in the Astra vaccine trial alone.

    https://theconversation.com/oxford-scientists-these-are-final-steps-were-taking-to-get-our-coronavirus-vaccine-approved-144623

    You might be able to claim a moral victory based on the fact there are also placebo patients being g enrolled. But 17000 people have received one or more shots of the Oxford vaccine or its control.

    Moderna has enrolled and dosed a similar number in the USA alone. And there are other vaccine trials with similar numbers. You are probably looking at close to 100k people have received a vaccine of some type.

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  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    This is kind of update thread material but also a query.

    Recently the CDC has switched to a symptom-based criteria for maintaining isolation of patients who previously tested positive for coronovirus and showed symptoms of COVID-19. These changes outline a strategy where you are assumed to still test positive for up to 90 days but considered to be no longer contagious after 10 days of onset of symptoms/positive result of a test if you have been without fever for 24 hours and 'symptoms have improved'.

    It used to be 'respiratory symptoms' but that was changed. It also used to be 72 hours instead of 24. This seems really open to interpretation and subjective to me with regard to the symptoms improving.

    Here's the query, we've stopped taking airborne precautions for patients who are coming in for emergent surgery even if they previously tested positive as long as it's been 10 days. Someone who needs an emergent surgery to me isn't someone who can assess their symptoms, especially if the reason for the surgery can have a fever dismissed as a symptom of the acute need for treatment. (appendicitis -> fever)

    In my mind, because you are intubating someone and it's considered an aerosol generating procedure and they have tested positive, you should treat them as COVID-19 positive as a precaution even if the positive result is greater than 10 days old.

    I understand that the way it works in my head isn't necessarily the way a healthcare system would view it. I've also talked to some coworkers and physicians and the opinions seem to be rather split.

    Is there documentation specifically surrounding administration of anesthesia to a patient assumed to test positive but be non infectious?

  • BigPointyTeethBigPointyTeeth run away! run away! Registered User regular
    The way we do it is that any AGP requires an N95 to be worn until enough air exchanges take place. After that, a regular surgical mask is fine again. Thankfully, the amount of air exchanges we need to wait for has decreased, because I really hate the N95s.

    Anyway, no idea about any documentation. MegaMan001 would be the one to know, I just clean up their messes.

  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Basically just writing off the US at this point, but at least other places in the world aren't as stupid. Europe for instance - no wait there are anti-mask protests in Brussels, Berlin, and Rome. And an Italian mayor is fining people 2000E for wearing a face mask. Not for not wearing one, but fining people for wearing one. You fucking beat it back, and now you want to go full America?

    The human race is too stupid to survive.

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  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited September 12
    The way we do it is that any AGP requires an N95 to be worn until enough air exchanges take place. After that, a regular surgical mask is fine again. Thankfully, the amount of air exchanges we need to wait for has decreased, because I really hate the N95s.

    Anyway, no idea about any documentation. MegaMan001 would be the one to know, I just clean up their messes.

    This is the way we were doing it until Wednesday of this week (9/9/20). The patient had to test negative or be assumed positive. If it was an emergency with no time to test, we treated it as a positive.

    Positive meant PAPR/N95 with a 21 minute wait after intubation/extubation with non essential staff waiting outside the room. With the recent change, they're ignoring all of that.

    The changes seem to be entirely based around the CDC symptom based criteria for isolation.

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/duration-isolation.html

    Surgeons notoriously don't give a shit about anything except how soon they can start their case and it feels incorrect to me. I'm just trying to find a way to reason through this that confirms my mistrust or reinforces the position of management.

    dispatch.o on
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    The CDC position was most likely not evidence driven, given recently other events.

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  • RingoRingo HE KEEPS REPEATING THE LINE I'M GONNA CRY BLEASE LET HIM LIVE YOU MADE ME WATCH SO MUCH KISSING IN THIS FILM LET INIGO LIVERegistered User regular
    Yeah I would assume a profit motive behind anything coming from the CDC currently

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  • JeanJean Papa bear Gatineau, QuébecRegistered User regular
    So far, the Québec governement has not been giving fines to people who refuse to wear a mask but they have decided to be more forceful now.

    Fines have been set to a minumun of $400 up to a maximun of $6,000.

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