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[Path of Exile] 3.13 Echoes of the Atlas on 1/15! Must now submit dissertation to play

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Posts

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    edited January 12
    IIRC, most Zombie/Spectre/Golem builds go Mindless, Unnatural, Bone Barrier, and Commander of Darkness, none of which were affected.

    Edit: across all of the small nodes, you lost 20% increased damage. Not even more. With harvest crafts being available at all, that's nothing.

    Brody on
    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    I know it's psychological, but I just can never play melee skeletons again after the 50% damage nerf :( My favorite build post 3.2 flew too damn close to the sun with the summoner buff league, and now is less good than when it was my hipster 3.3 build. It was completely filthy after they redid necromancers and it became super popular, before the 50% damage nerf, but I wish they would have done like 25% to make it at least as good as it was before all of the necromancer changes.

    Sadly very predictable though. As soon as I got buffed again I was very happy, but knew it was just a matter of time before it was gone foreva.

    Fiatil on
    steam_sig.png
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    So, depending on how it turns out, Crackling Lance or maybe Divine Ire Elementalist. Shaper of Flames, Bastion of Elements, Mastermind of Discord, and maybe the Convergence one, but also the everything shocks one might be nice. With Divine Ire you can stack 3 rounds of conversion, but I don't know how much I want to do a channeling skill again.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
  • fRAWRstfRAWRst The Seas Call The Mad AnswerRegistered User regular
    every build seemed to lose generic "increased damage"

    minions lost what, 25%?

    a drop in a bucket

    frawrst.png
    J3qcnBP.png
    jungleroomx
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Never pre-order anything. Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    Divine Ire, Phys to Lightning, Stormfire ring, Blackflame ring.

    If you stack that lightning damage high enough to shock consistently, that damage output could be quite nice.

    Especially with this little guy on there:

    Beam deals 70% more Damage with Ailments per Stage after the first

    That's how you stack some fucking chaos dmg

    jungleroomx on
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  • PacificstarPacificstar Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    I would love to see Wild Strike buffs. It's like they introduced it into the game as a replacement Elemental Hit (which at the time was garbage). Then they buffed EH and left Wild Strike to keep EH's old semi-garbage position.

    Pacificstar on
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Never pre-order anything. Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    Fuck I think I might go Divine Ire elementalist guys, Elementalist/Hiero Scion or Elementalist Witch.

    Edit Edit: Shaper of Storms is fucking broken.
    iovpvj89qpwx.png
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    1ao0awgas41w.png

    Elementalist it is.

    There's some potential for absolute fuckery with how lightning damage can hit, especially with Wither totems on bosses

    That deep purple/black skin and red divine ire MTX is gonna look sick

    jungleroomx on
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    Brody
  • fRAWRstfRAWRst The Seas Call The Mad AnswerRegistered User regular
    I would love to see Wild Strike buffs. It's like they introduced it into the game as a replacement Elemental Hit (which at the time was garbage). Then they buffed EH and left Wild Strike to keep EH's old semi-garbage position.

    to be fair, EH has been nerfed every patch since 3.3

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    jungleroomxPacificstarHeffling
  • 38thDoe38thDoe lets never be stupid again wait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered User regular
    fRAWRst wrote: »
    every build seemed to lose generic "increased damage"

    minions lost what, 25%?

    a drop in a bucket

    If it doesn't matter why bother nerfing it?

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Never pre-order anything. Registered User regular
    38thDoe wrote: »
    fRAWRst wrote: »
    every build seemed to lose generic "increased damage"

    minions lost what, 25%?

    a drop in a bucket

    If it doesn't matter why bother nerfing it?

    Because they're not trying to kill the summoner class, but it's super fucking powerful right now for minimal investment in time or gear.

    npgf5tyafjv0.png
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    fRAWRst wrote: »
    every build seemed to lose generic "increased damage"

    minions lost what, 25%?

    a drop in a bucket

    I'm referring to the nerf a few leagues ago that brought skeletons from 20%+ of the league to less than 1%, not the ascendencies (taking 50% off of the gem damage, not a much smaller 25% nerf to added minion damage). I honestly hate the carrion golem meta that arose from the ashes of that -- I'm fine with that being less effective. It's ironic that I initially wanted D2 skelemancer, but then fell in love with melee skeletons in particular because of the differences it had with skelemancers (being a more active playstyle and not just walk through mobs while your permanent minions kill things).

    Honestly the ascendencies, on the whole, look like such a nerf that I'm assuming it's going to be compensated in passive tree and skill gems? I should prooobably assume the worst, but I hope for the best! Some of the new ascendencies that were struggling previously look really neat, but on the balance there appear to be quite a few nerfs.
    38thDoe wrote: »
    fRAWRst wrote: »
    every build seemed to lose generic "increased damage"

    minions lost what, 25%?

    a drop in a bucket

    If it doesn't matter why bother nerfing it?

    Because they're not trying to kill the summoner class, but it's super fucking powerful right now for minimal investment in time or gear.

    There are one or two playstyles that are currently overpowered on summoners -- from glancing at the numbers, really just carrion golems. Those were nerfed separately. The #s of people playing skeleton builds just don't bear out that it actually is still really good post 50% gem damage nerf. It's used as support for other skills now, when previously it was 90% of my damage.

    Like, this chart shows that Carrion Golem is overpowered, and maybe Spectres. The zombies/animate guardian charting are just a function of carrion golem being ridiculously overused.

    Fiatil on
    steam_sig.png
    jungleroomx
  • 38thDoe38thDoe lets never be stupid again wait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered User regular
    38thDoe wrote: »
    fRAWRst wrote: »
    every build seemed to lose generic "increased damage"

    minions lost what, 25%?

    a drop in a bucket

    If it doesn't matter why bother nerfing it?

    Because they're not trying to kill the summoner class, but it's super fucking powerful right now for minimal investment in time or gear.

    I wasn't trying to be hostile, thanks for the response. Summoner was a lot easier than lacerate but I thought that was because lacerate just sucked. Wish I played it a year ago before they started nerfing it.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    i mean i think in general they were trying to prune secondary stats from ascendancies. the poe2 design philosophy there is that ascendancies do not have much in the way of raw "core stats" - eg life/damage/etc modifiers - but have significant unique effects instead. they are also then bringing the connecting nodes in line with the values found in other areas, eg the durations all set to 15%, and so on

    to an extent theres too much %inc flying around atm anyway so i hope they do prune quite hard

    obF2Wuw.png
    FiatilBrody
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    i mean i think in general they were trying to prune secondary stats from ascendancies. the poe2 design philosophy there is that ascendancies do not have much in the way of raw "core stats" - eg life/damage/etc modifiers - but have significant unique effects instead. they are also then bringing the connecting nodes in line with the values found in other areas, eg the durations all set to 15%, and so on

    to an extent theres too much %inc flying around atm anyway so i hope they do prune quite hard

    Yeah this makes sense to me, and is what I'm hoping they successfully follow through on. If you want to move stuff like that away from ascendencies and into the passive tree, I'm totally down!

    steam_sig.png
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Never pre-order anything. Registered User regular
    38thDoe wrote: »
    38thDoe wrote: »
    fRAWRst wrote: »
    every build seemed to lose generic "increased damage"

    minions lost what, 25%?

    a drop in a bucket

    If it doesn't matter why bother nerfing it?

    Because they're not trying to kill the summoner class, but it's super fucking powerful right now for minimal investment in time or gear.

    I wasn't trying to be hostile, thanks for the response. Summoner was a lot easier than lacerate but I thought that was because lacerate just sucked. Wish I played it a year ago before they started nerfing it.

    You're good, I wasn't being angry, I just cuss a lot.

    Summoner in it's current state is mostly good, but the gear is dirt cheap compared to other builds.

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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Never pre-order anything. Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    Fiatil wrote: »

    There are one or two playstyles that are currently overpowered on summoners -- from glancing at the numbers, really just carrion golems. Those were nerfed separately. The #s of people playing skeleton builds just don't bear out that it actually is still really good post 50% gem damage nerf. It's used as support for other skills now, when previously it was 90% of my damage.

    Like, this chart shows that Carrion Golem is overpowered, and maybe Spectres. The zombies/animate guardian charting are just a function of carrion golem being ridiculously overused.

    I think the big thing with summoners isn't that it's explicitly more powerful than other builds, but that you can get a set of red-tier mapping gear for like 30c.

    Other builds might take a little more investment.

    jungleroomx on
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    Fiatil
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    Fiatil wrote: »

    There are one or two playstyles that are currently overpowered on summoners -- from glancing at the numbers, really just carrion golems. Those were nerfed separately. The #s of people playing skeleton builds just don't bear out that it actually is still really good post 50% gem damage nerf. It's used as support for other skills now, when previously it was 90% of my damage.

    Like, this chart shows that Carrion Golem is overpowered, and maybe Spectres. The zombies/animate guardian charting are just a function of carrion golem being ridiculously overused.

    I think the big thing with summoners isn't that it's explicitly more powerful than other builds, but that you can get a set of red-tier mapping gear for like 30c.

    Other builds might take a little more investment.

    Totally! I'm really just lamenting something that affected me specifically -- it's my subjective love of melee skeletons. In my greedy heart I would have preferred they stayed at 3.3 levels, sitting in the corner being quietly really damn good, instead of reaching the completely ridiculous heights they did in 3.8, which caused a nerf to get them out of the meta completely. I know that GGG intentionally balances that way -- I do wish they could find a middle ground between ALL OF THE LEAGUE and "oh sure it's viable! you can use vaal skeletons in a 2 link for bosses, great right?". But melee skeletons isn't the first or last to suffer that.

    I know why I can't, but I really just want GGG to let me pay them money to tear apart the game with melee skeletons (ok, also peak Winter Orb) again. I've played a ridiculous amount of builds (generally get to red maps and get bored), and those are stuck in my brain and I needs them.

    Fiatil on
    steam_sig.png
    jungleroomx
  • AbsalonAbsalon Registered User regular
    We are all as God made us and frequently much worse
    mccart
  • CarpyCarpy Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    The Brutal Fervor leech change really just amounts to a (otherwise default) leech instance lasting for up to 10 seconds now instead of 5, yeah?

    Carpy on
  • Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    Notes are MAD early this time holy moly

    mccartAegisAbsalonBrody
  • PacificstarPacificstar Registered User regular
    fRAWRst wrote: »
    I would love to see Wild Strike buffs. It's like they introduced it into the game as a replacement Elemental Hit (which at the time was garbage). Then they buffed EH and left Wild Strike to keep EH's old semi-garbage position.

    to be fair, EH has been nerfed every patch since 3.3

    But when has WS ever been buffed?

  • fRAWRstfRAWRst The Seas Call The Mad AnswerRegistered User regular
    38thDoe wrote: »
    fRAWRst wrote: »
    every build seemed to lose generic "increased damage"

    minions lost what, 25%?

    a drop in a bucket

    If it doesn't matter why bother nerfing it?

    because theyre getting rid of generic damage increased across all ascends

    frawrst.png
    J3qcnBP.png
  • fRAWRstfRAWRst The Seas Call The Mad AnswerRegistered User regular
    fRAWRst wrote: »
    I would love to see Wild Strike buffs. It's like they introduced it into the game as a replacement Elemental Hit (which at the time was garbage). Then they buffed EH and left Wild Strike to keep EH's old semi-garbage position.

    to be fair, EH has been nerfed every patch since 3.3

    But when has WS ever been buffed?

    when the jewel start working on it was a big buff

    frawrst.png
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    Pacificstar
  • fRAWRstfRAWRst The Seas Call The Mad AnswerRegistered User regular
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »

    There are one or two playstyles that are currently overpowered on summoners -- from glancing at the numbers, really just carrion golems. Those were nerfed separately. The #s of people playing skeleton builds just don't bear out that it actually is still really good post 50% gem damage nerf. It's used as support for other skills now, when previously it was 90% of my damage.

    Like, this chart shows that Carrion Golem is overpowered, and maybe Spectres. The zombies/animate guardian charting are just a function of carrion golem being ridiculously overused.

    I think the big thing with summoners isn't that it's explicitly more powerful than other builds, but that you can get a set of red-tier mapping gear for like 30c.

    Other builds might take a little more investment.

    Totally! I'm really just lamenting something that affected me specifically -- it's my subjective love of melee skeletons. In my greedy heart I would have preferred they stayed at 3.3 levels, sitting in the corner being quietly really damn good, instead of reaching the completely ridiculous heights they did in 3.8, which caused a nerf to get them out of the meta completely. I know that GGG intentionally balances that way -- I do wish they could find a middle ground between ALL OF THE LEAGUE and "oh sure it's viable! you can use vaal skeletons in a 2 link for bosses, great right?". But melee skeletons isn't the first or last to suffer that.

    I know why I can't, but I really just want GGG to let me pay them money to tear apart the game with melee skeletons (ok, also peak Winter Orb) again. I've played a ridiculous amount of builds (generally get to red maps and get bored), and those are stuck in my brain and I needs them.

    isnt current minion builds stronger then 3.3?

    hell the AI alone is still broken

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  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    Huh, Cobra Lash buffs.

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
    CarpyAbsalon
  • AbsalonAbsalon Registered User regular
    Conqueror-Influenced maps may now experience an invasion by Sirus himself.

    "DIE"

    We are all as God made us and frequently much worse
    jungleroomxPacificstarCrippl3
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    wait they nerfed glacial hammer

    they nerfed it HARD

    from 200% base damage to just dealing base damage. 15% more de doesnt offset this at all.... what???

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  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    Maps dropped by special sources such as deterministic chests or league rewards like those found in the Azurite Mine or the Temple of Atzoatl now use your own Atlas to determine which maps to drop, and can therefore drop maps that have been raised above their base tier due to the presence of Watchstones. Maps dropped from these sources now also take into account your Favourite Map selections. If a source such as this cannot find a compatible map from your Atlas to drop (for example, due to too few maps being completed and too few watchstones being socketed for a Tier 16 map on your Atlas to drop), it will drop a random map of the correct tier instead.

    Wooooooo

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
    Brody
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    Lightning Warp
    Now gains additional radius as the gem levels, up to +4 at gem level 20.

    ITS HAPPENINGggggggggggggggg

    obF2Wuw.png
    AegisjungleroomxPacificstar
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    skellies
    Summoned Skeleton Mages (from Dead Reckoning unique jewel or Vaal Summon Skeletons) now deal 50% more damage, and their projectile speed has been doubled.

    obF2Wuw.png
    FiatilBrody
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    fRAWRst wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »

    There are one or two playstyles that are currently overpowered on summoners -- from glancing at the numbers, really just carrion golems. Those were nerfed separately. The #s of people playing skeleton builds just don't bear out that it actually is still really good post 50% gem damage nerf. It's used as support for other skills now, when previously it was 90% of my damage.

    Like, this chart shows that Carrion Golem is overpowered, and maybe Spectres. The zombies/animate guardian charting are just a function of carrion golem being ridiculously overused.

    I think the big thing with summoners isn't that it's explicitly more powerful than other builds, but that you can get a set of red-tier mapping gear for like 30c.

    Other builds might take a little more investment.

    Totally! I'm really just lamenting something that affected me specifically -- it's my subjective love of melee skeletons. In my greedy heart I would have preferred they stayed at 3.3 levels, sitting in the corner being quietly really damn good, instead of reaching the completely ridiculous heights they did in 3.8, which caused a nerf to get them out of the meta completely. I know that GGG intentionally balances that way -- I do wish they could find a middle ground between ALL OF THE LEAGUE and "oh sure it's viable! you can use vaal skeletons in a 2 link for bosses, great right?". But melee skeletons isn't the first or last to suffer that.

    I know why I can't, but I really just want GGG to let me pay them money to tear apart the game with melee skeletons (ok, also peak Winter Orb) again. I've played a ridiculous amount of builds (generally get to red maps and get bored), and those are stuck in my brain and I needs them.

    isnt current minion builds stronger then 3.3?

    hell the AI alone is still broken

    I think we may be miscommunicating slightly -- you're talking about summoners as a whole, while I'm referring to using melee skeletons as my primary (and really only) attack skill. The playstyles are dramatically different between melee skeletons as your primary attack skill, and having your primary attack skill be sceptres/zombies/golems. The latter are all passive forms of attack -- they are permanent and attack without input -- while melee skeletons are a fixed duration skill that can be summoned *away* from you. They attack without input, but you're essentially controlling where they attack by summoning them at range and resummoning them whenever you want (gems allowed you to summon a full pack in 1 or 2 casts depending on which patch).

    So 3.2 (Bestiary) is the one that overhauled every ascendency -- they added a speed buff to skeletons in the Necromancer skill tree, which made them viable. Previously they were too damn slow, post speed buff they were zoomy and viable as a primary/only attack skill. 3.3 was the icing on the cake, because it combined vaal/regular skill gems into one, allowing you to 6L vaal skeletons and skeletons at the same time. Times were good! There were a few of us, but poe.ninja took no notice and we practiced our art in the shadows (the masses were distracted with the newfound glory of Arc). In hindsight, the reason this worked and was balanced is because zombies sucked terribly. Their AI was still really bad, they did no damage, and no fancy carrion golem/feeding frenzy/all of that jazz at the time. So you had to take a specific necromancer skill to make it work -- it was good only for skeletons, and your skeletons were only good if you took that skill node.

    3.8 is summoner league, and shit got crazy. The "skeleton specific" necromancer node was rolled into the skill gem, and the new ascendency skills were hot. So not only are skeletons pretty sweet from level 1, with 0 investment in necromancer now, they work really well with zombies (which are now dramatically buffed) and spectres and everything else. You can put all of your points in stuff to make those your primary attack skills, get all of the passive minion benefits from necromancer and the skill tree, and wind up with really strong skeletons as a secondary skill on a 4 link (and primary attack skeletons are even better now because of the +2 gem node in necromancer). The synergy was filthy!

    To me, it was the synergy of all of that stuff that made them eat a massive nerf (40% less base damage of the skeleton from the skill gem, and 1 less total max skeleton -- I said 50% but I misremembered).

    You actually hit on a good point per the AI -- the AI sucking never really mattered for skeletons. Zombies, spectres, golems, you're depending upon them seeking and finding targets as you move about. Skeletons, you just drop them right on top of the pack and they murder everything in front of them. Moving too slowly to next pack? You're faster, just summon them again on the next pack and watch it explode.

    So yeah, if you want to roll super deep with a ton of zombies, spectres, golems, with a sprinking of skeletons on top for damage, you can do that today! It's a completely different feel than using skeletons as your primary attack though. Skeletons, alone, is in worse shape today than it was from 3.2-3.7. Summoners, as a whole, are only better last league because of carrion golem being such a widely used skill as a primary source of damage. That one's been nerfed in this patch separately, and I assume wont be nearly as popular. So yeah, I think for the next league, summoners will be in a worse shape than they were from 3.2-3.7 (unless you just really hated manually casting melee skeletons, which does apply to some people).

    steam_sig.png
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    At the end of the day that was just a long diatribe about things that I'm nostalgic for that won't return!

    Such is life, and at the end of the day I trust GGG to balance this game much more than me.

    The important thing is, some of the new buffed skills look hot. I'm optimistic!
    skellies
    Summoned Skeleton Mages (from Dead Reckoning unique jewel or Vaal Summon Skeletons) now deal 50% more damage, and their projectile speed has been doubled.

    That's a curveball I definitely wasn't expecting! If we get super hax skeleton mages as a response to their crimes against melee skeletons, I can forgive much. Gonna wait and see on that one though. They actually never nerfed skeleton MAGE damage, so maybeee!

    Fiatil on
    steam_sig.png
    jungleroomx
  • AbsalonAbsalon Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    Ballista Totem Support
    Now causes supported skills do deal 32% less damage at gem level 1 (from 42%), up to 20% less damage at gem level 20 (from 33%).

    Hmmm-hm?

    Also, Pogs in chat for Hexblast/Impending Doom buffs.

    Absalon on
    We are all as God made us and frequently much worse
  • RozRoz Boss of InternetRegistered User regular
    Lightning Warp
    Now gains additional radius as the gem levels, up to +4 at gem level 20.

    ITS HAPPENINGggggggggggggggg

    Isn't this like the lowest damage lightning spell? I seem to recall watching a video where someone sunk 100 exalts trying to make this powerful and it was worse than like 10ex Stormcall

  • fRAWRstfRAWRst The Seas Call The Mad AnswerRegistered User regular
    ask not what lightning warp can do for you

    but what you can do for lightning warp

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    jungleroomxAegisPacificstarRius
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Never pre-order anything. Registered User regular
    Roz wrote: »
    Lightning Warp
    Now gains additional radius as the gem levels, up to +4 at gem level 20.

    ITS HAPPENINGggggggggggggggg

    Isn't this like the lowest damage lightning spell? I seem to recall watching a video where someone sunk 100 exalts trying to make this powerful and it was worse than like 10ex Stormcall

    Its not about the power

    Its about the meme

    You will learn

    npgf5tyafjv0.png
    AegisCrippl3
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    Roz wrote: »
    Lightning Warp
    Now gains additional radius as the gem levels, up to +4 at gem level 20.

    ITS HAPPENINGggggggggggggggg

    Isn't this like the lowest damage lightning spell? I seem to recall watching a video where someone sunk 100 exalts trying to make this powerful and it was worse than like 10ex Stormcall

    its extremely optimal

    obF2Wuw.png
    jungleroomxCrippl3
  • PacificstarPacificstar Registered User regular
    Once again the two builds I played the last league were buffed. (SST and cobra lash)

  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    I expect all of your dissertations on my desk by Friday at 2 PM on the historical state of summoners

    Steam: Spawnbroker
  • Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    edited January 13
    Crackling Lance
    25% more damage effectiveness (90 to 115)
    Big top-end damage buff

    We are in potential "Let's fucking goooooooooooooooooo" territory

    Crippl3 on
    BrodyPacificstarFiatil
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