As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

[Destiny 2] What We Do in the Shadows (Beyond Light expansion coming Nov. 10!)

145791099

Posts

  • ronzoronzo Registered User regular
    Arteen wrote: »
    Sunsetting weapons is a crock.

    It has no "greater purpose" beyond removing a handful of overly-performing pinnacle weapons like Mountaintop and Revoker. It's primarily a way to invalidate player time and effort so they have to spend time regrinding gear they already earned, without Bungie having to put in the effort of creating a season's worth of new, compelling weapons.

    Bungie found a new answer to why players care about obtaining a "tenth Better Devils". It's because the previous nine have programmed obsolescence.

    I mean, this was also supposed to be about getting people to care about new weapons because they can’t just fall back on their outlaw/rampage rolls they have for every archetype already. Which is an okay idea in general, though it’s an easier pill to swallow this season when all the weapons actually have good/fun rolls compared to last seasons snooze-fest.

    If they had reissued gnawing hunger, but the roll pools were different? Fine, it’s not the same gun I had before. But with exactly 1-1 copy of the rolls, it just drops now vs the past

    Yeah, that’s going to have the opposite effect bungie intended. I’m not going to farm god rolls for much of anything, I’ll probably just stop at “good enough” now.

    Catalase
  • DysDys how am I even using this gun Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    The idea people have been suggesting of infusing the new one into the old one to make an old roll current again is one I really like.

    Dys on
    OpposingFarce
  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    It's probably a design issue, but I wouldn't mind at all if destroying an item from the current season created a current content gem that you could jam into the old version and make it good to go. I guess there's an issue with mod slots, but I despise time limited mod slots and therefore kind of don't care about that.

    (I got the some of the mods from last season in the last two weeks OF the season. Trying to craft good builds with that in mind is an unfunny joke.)

  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Sunsetting is fine and even necessary.....

    ....but if you're going to do that, you need to design a bunch of new weapons and model them.

    Bungie doesn't do that, though, and unlike almost any other developer, they get away with it because the base mechanics of Destiny and how it feels to play is just so fucking good. That, plus tossing in OCD stuff to fill bars, and boom.

    I am hoping that at least a real expansion brings a slew of new weapons. They'll be "kitbashed", but at least new names and stat numbers, please.

    Bizazedo on
    XBL: Bizazedo
    PSN: Bizazedo
    CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
  • XagarXagar Registered User regular
    "IKELOS_SG_v1.0.3"
    "22% Instability"
    "Circular Argument"
    "Last Call"
    "Apex Legend"
    "Widow's Bite Tarantula Necrosis Fiddleback"
    "The Devil Who's Always In Your Insta Feed But You Don't Really Know Why"

    Basil
  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    "Sunsetting" is good when it's called "rotation" and it happens in games like Magic and Hearthstone when the pool of options gets bloated but dominated by the same few that have always been at the top-end.

    However, rotation would not work if all they did was make a bunch of cards unusuable and then release a set of 90% the same cards.

    Crippl3TamerBillObiFettBasilCatalase
  • ShamusShamus Registered User regular
    My fellow Hunters, are you in need of a new Exotic? Are you tired of wearing the discarded foreskin of a Hive Worm God in your face? Need something stylish?

    Step into the literal pants of Tallulah Fairwind with The Bombardiers!

    Is a shotgun wielding ape trying to slide in and kill you in “the right way to play Destiny”? Dodge and drop a bomb.

    Is a Titan charging forward like the crayon eater they are? Dodge and drop a bomb.

    Is the Vangaurd trying to get you to take the Dare? Dodge and drop a bomb.

    Ha ha suck it Zavala.

    Basil
  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    Xagar wrote: »
    "IKELOS_SG_v1.0.3"
    "22% Instability"
    "Circular Argument"
    "Last Call"
    "Apex Legend"
    "Widow's Bite Tarantula Necrosis Fiddleback"
    "The Devil Who's Always In Your Insta Feed But You Don't Really Know Why"

    Bestest Devil
    Good Omens, with a badly reworked version of a Terry Pratchett quote for flavor text

    XBL: Bizazedo
    PSN: Bizazedo
    CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
  • SirialisSirialis of the Halite Throne. Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Sunsetting kinda requires you to make a bunch of new guns, I’m 100% certain Bungie will make Shadowkeep levels of new guns in Light Beyond and just “reissue” a literal shit ton of old stale bullshit we already had and call it a day.

    Sirialis on
    CptHamiltonBizazedoCatalase
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    metaghost wrote: »
    With regards to Armor, I feel comfortable dismantling all Season of the Dawn gear (Righteous Armor?), as the typical Season Mod needs are better handled by a mix of the other three seasons of gear.

    But that's advice particular to someone pursuing stuff like "oh, I want a Hive Barrier + Charged w/Light build for soloing Pit of Heresy", not really average play.

    A set of Undying mod slots and a set of Arrivals mod slots will cover almost everything. Just need Forsaken/Outlaw mod slots for a small number of other things.

  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    All MMOs sunset weapons and armor, Bungie just doesn't seem (at the moment) to have the ability to keep up with generating new ones to replace the old. Reissuing old gear is a mistake.

  • Zombie GandhiZombie Gandhi Registered User regular
    It seems like Trials is not gonna be enticing to me until they offer a Class item at less than Flawless.
    Which is not this week.
    Arms at 5 is somewhat worth trying to put a group together, but with other shenanigans it is less compelling.

    Cmon, Bungie. Daddy needs a new butt towel.

  • ArteenArteen Adept ValeRegistered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Nosf wrote: »
    All MMOs sunset weapons and armor, Bungie just doesn't seem (at the moment) to have the ability to keep up with generating new ones to replace the old. Reissuing old gear is a mistake.
    Not really? I only play one MMO, Elder Scrolls Online, and it doesn't do that. No sunsetting, no gear treadmills, no removing content from the game, no FOMO outside of cash shop cosmetics and the like.

    I'm really curious what successful, well-loved MMOs work like Destiny 2.

    Arteen on
    VagabondObiFett
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    I'm shit tier at Crucible atm, but I've stumbled into Gambit gold tier by becoming a service warlock on mission Keep You Fuckers From Getting Yourselves Killed.

    Primary is a masterworked Night Watch with explosive rounds. It's fine.
    Secondary is a masterworked Truthteller with Blinding Grenades, Demoitionist and Feeding Frenzy
    Power Weapon is The Colony because lol aiming
    Exotic armor is Crown of Tempest or Nezerac's Sin if there's a void bounty.

    First step is to drop rifts constantly during the mote phase, ideally in the path of my fellow Guardians. I don't expect them to use the rift, but I want to give them Arc Souls whether they want them or not.

    My big discovery was blinding grenades. I can lock down entire rooms of mobs with this thing. The blast damage radius is so small I can use it at shotgun range with little consequence. If I'm on my own I can lock down basically anything that isn't the Primeval as long as I have the ammo for it, including blockers, high value targets and envoys. The only thing is that the hitbox for Special ammo grenades is incredibly small. The number of grenades I've shot harmlessly between enemy legs is comical. And if I wiff two or three times it can put me on tilt because it's like I might as well not even be there. However, stunning enemies is a good way to keep my aggressive rando teammates losing 10 motes to a room full of screeching Scorn weirdos.

    Demoltionist of course feeds into Crown or Nezerac's Sin so I have energy for days. Ideally I want Arc Souls but I'll do voidlock if there's a void damage bounty and both Truthteller and The Colony are void damage.

    I've started to be cognizant enough of my empowering rift status to drop it on the most badass dps on our team at the start of the Primeval phase, or drop it next to the Primeval BEFORE popping Stormtrance and holding on for dear life.

    The Colony is the thing that makes me viable to invade if I look around and no one else is going to do it. Usually get a couple kills. It pisses people off. I had a hunter invade and waste time going after me when I had like three motes, and we won the match, so mission accomplished. The only thing is that if I really want to improve my general Gambit game I think I need to replace it with a sniper rifle even though sniper rifles are the tool of the enemy.

    I'm basically helpless against invaders unless I have heavy ammo, or I catch them off guard at range with my Night Watch. Thinking about replacing with a shotgun but then I'd have zero ranged options.

    Anyway Gambit is fun. Bank those motes. Seriously... bank those motes what are you doing just bank the motes.


    ElkiDyvim TvarBasil
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Arteen wrote: »
    Nosf wrote: »
    All MMOs sunset weapons and armor, Bungie just doesn't seem (at the moment) to have the ability to keep up with generating new ones to replace the old. Reissuing old gear is a mistake.
    Not really? I only play one MMO, Elder Scrolls Online, and it doesn't do that. No sunsetting, no gear treadmills, no removing content from the game, no FOMO outside of cash shop cosmetics and the like.

    I'm really curious what successful, well-loved MMOs work like Destiny 2.

    WoW sunsets gear constantly.

  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    I think sunsetting is good, sunsetting an old weapon and replacing it with the same weapon is bad.

    Read my blog about AMERICA and THE BAY AREA

    https://medium.com/@alascii
    BizazedoZombie GandhiElkishoeboxjeddyCrippl3Peenarakis99shrykeShadowfireStupid
  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Arteen wrote: »
    Nosf wrote: »
    All MMOs sunset weapons and armor, Bungie just doesn't seem (at the moment) to have the ability to keep up with generating new ones to replace the old. Reissuing old gear is a mistake.
    Not really? I only play one MMO, Elder Scrolls Online, and it doesn't do that. No sunsetting, no gear treadmills, no removing content from the game, no FOMO outside of cash shop cosmetics and the like.

    I'm really curious what successful, well-loved MMOs work like Destiny 2.

    I've never played Elder Scrolls, so I'll ask, how does it work then? No new weapons or gear that's better than previous gear?

    Making new gear and new foes where the old gear can barely or not hurt the new foes *is* sunsetting, so I'm curious how ESO handles it.

    WoW did it, Everquest did it. UO didn't, but UO was perfect until people stopped wanting it to be a real world :). Pretty sure Asheron's Call did it. Dark Age of Camelot did it. Pretty sure both Star Wars MMOs did it.

    So, the answer is virtually all of them do it.

    Bizazedo on
    XBL: Bizazedo
    PSN: Bizazedo
    CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
  • ronzoronzo Registered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    "Sunsetting" is good when it's called "rotation" and it happens in games like Magic and Hearthstone when the pool of options gets bloated but dominated by the same few that have always been at the top-end.

    However, rotation would not work if all they did was make a bunch of cards unusuable and then release a set of 90% the same cards.

    Also that while hearthstone does rotations, they have yet to reprint a single card (aka, the “make a shitload of new guns and leave literally everything behind approach). Magic does rotations, but when they reprint a card (like say Lightning Bolt) any version with the same card text is valid to play, no matter what original set it’s from.

    One way does invalidate your collection, but it keeps the meta from getting stale and everyone is in the same boat. The other way invalidates some of your collection, but maybe one day your cool expensive as fuck thing is usable again without any action on your part.

    Bungie is taking the middle, laziest, and worst way out possible, either through lack of foresight, malice, or simply not giving a fuck. Based on their dev pipeline sounding like a goddamn nightmare, they should just be implementing the MTG system. Let’s them avoid every brining back the truly broken shit without having to reinvent the wheel every 9-12 months.

    And I think that’s what they’ll do in the end, but we the community shouldn’t have had to tell them, this shit should be obvious. I’m growing increasingly tired of watch Bungie just completely whiff on simple stuff. I can’t imagine everyone there is this stupid, so I can only imagine it’s idiot managers/leads who override the people with the good idea time and time again.

    DodgeBlanXagarTamerBillBasilOpposingFarceadmanb
  • ArteenArteen Adept ValeRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Arteen wrote: »
    Nosf wrote: »
    All MMOs sunset weapons and armor, Bungie just doesn't seem (at the moment) to have the ability to keep up with generating new ones to replace the old. Reissuing old gear is a mistake.
    Not really? I only play one MMO, Elder Scrolls Online, and it doesn't do that. No sunsetting, no gear treadmills, no removing content from the game, no FOMO outside of cash shop cosmetics and the like.

    I'm really curious what successful, well-loved MMOs work like Destiny 2.

    WoW sunsets gear constantly.

    What kind of timeframe is "constantly"?

  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Arteen wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Arteen wrote: »
    Nosf wrote: »
    All MMOs sunset weapons and armor, Bungie just doesn't seem (at the moment) to have the ability to keep up with generating new ones to replace the old. Reissuing old gear is a mistake.
    Not really? I only play one MMO, Elder Scrolls Online, and it doesn't do that. No sunsetting, no gear treadmills, no removing content from the game, no FOMO outside of cash shop cosmetics and the like.

    I'm really curious what successful, well-loved MMOs work like Destiny 2.

    WoW sunsets gear constantly.

    What kind of timeframe is "constantly"?

    Every expansion, presumably.

    TamerBillCrippl3Basil
  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    ronzo wrote: »
    admanb wrote: »
    "Sunsetting" is good when it's called "rotation" and it happens in games like Magic and Hearthstone when the pool of options gets bloated but dominated by the same few that have always been at the top-end.

    However, rotation would not work if all they did was make a bunch of cards unusuable and then release a set of 90% the same cards.

    Also that while hearthstone does rotations, they have yet to reprint a single card (aka, the “make a shitload of new guns and leave literally everything behind approach). Magic does rotations, but when they reprint a card (like say Lightning Bolt) any version with the same card text is valid to play, no matter what original set it’s from.

    One way does invalidate your collection, but it keeps the meta from getting stale and everyone is in the same boat. The other way invalidates some of your collection, but maybe one day your cool expensive as fuck thing is usable again without any action on your part.

    Bungie is taking the middle, laziest, and worst way out possible, either through lack of foresight, malice, or simply not giving a fuck. Based on their dev pipeline sounding like a goddamn nightmare, they should just be implementing the MTG system. Let’s them avoid every brining back the truly broken shit without having to reinvent the wheel every 9-12 months.

    And I think that’s what they’ll do in the end, but we the community shouldn’t have had to tell them, this shit should be obvious. I’m growing increasingly tired of watch Bungie just completely whiff on simple stuff. I can’t imagine everyone there is this stupid, so I can only imagine it’s idiot managers/leads who override the people with the good idea time and time again.

    exactly

    There are so many guns in destiny that are just bread and butter guns. I don't need a new bygones. I don't need a new Uriels Gift.

    If bungie had the bandwidth to make a Buriels Bift and it actually took me 15 minutes to realize 'hey... this gun Is basically Uriels Gift - that means it's pretty good legendary auto rifle!' Well that wouldn't be great... but it would be better than what we're getting. Getting another Uriels Gift that I can use for a slightly longer than the one sitting in my vault is just the worst of both worlds and makes me reflect on the futility of existence and how my body is slowly calcifying

    Read my blog about AMERICA and THE BAY AREA

    https://medium.com/@alascii
  • ArteenArteen Adept ValeRegistered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    Arteen wrote: »
    Nosf wrote: »
    All MMOs sunset weapons and armor, Bungie just doesn't seem (at the moment) to have the ability to keep up with generating new ones to replace the old. Reissuing old gear is a mistake.
    Not really? I only play one MMO, Elder Scrolls Online, and it doesn't do that. No sunsetting, no gear treadmills, no removing content from the game, no FOMO outside of cash shop cosmetics and the like.

    I'm really curious what successful, well-loved MMOs work like Destiny 2.

    I've never played Elder Scrolls, so I'll ask, how does it work then? No new weapons or gear that's better than previous gear?

    Making new gear and new foes where the old gear can barely or not hurt the new foes *is* sunsetting, so I'm curious how ESO handles it.

    WoW did it, Everquest did it. UO didn't, but UO was perfect until people stopped wanting it to be a real world :). Pretty sure Asheron's Call did it. Dark Age of Camelot did it. Pretty sure both Star Wars MMOs did it.

    So, the answer is virtually all of them do it.

    All weapons/armor in ESO belong to sets that provide set bonuses. Functionally they're all identical, with the differentiator being the set bonuses that are usually various stat bonuses (more health, improved stamina recovery) and a final bonus (even better stats, or a unique effect like summoning a temporary pet to do damage).

    Each expansion adds new gear sets that (hopefully) are fun, or more powerful for certain playstyles, or allow new playstyles. Regular balance patches shake up the meta occassionally, so your loadout one season might not be as effective the next season, but that's just how game balancing usually goes.

    For a player like me, I hit the gear level cap years ago, so all of my armor and weapons since then are effectively max level. Some vanilla armor sets are still very strong and useful. I can jump in and out and never feel left behind.

    I don't do most endgame activities in ESO myself, but it being an MMO there's a bunch of content to do. There's skill lines to level up, gold to earn, materials to gather, quests to complete, in-game achievements to earn, player titles to unlock, houses to decorate, outfit customizations to unlock and all that usual MMO stuff. The latest expansion added two new skill lines to level for archeology, completely revamped how player vampires work, and added new "mythic" items that act a lot like Destiny's only-one-can-be-equipped-at-a-time exotics with strong effects.

  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    They all do it aside from ESO by the sounds of it, and they do it constantly. Each raid tier in WoW replaces the previous raid tier. You're constantly improving and eventually, th
    Arteen wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Arteen wrote: »
    Nosf wrote: »
    All MMOs sunset weapons and armor, Bungie just doesn't seem (at the moment) to have the ability to keep up with generating new ones to replace the old. Reissuing old gear is a mistake.
    Not really? I only play one MMO, Elder Scrolls Online, and it doesn't do that. No sunsetting, no gear treadmills, no removing content from the game, no FOMO outside of cash shop cosmetics and the like.

    I'm really curious what successful, well-loved MMOs work like Destiny 2.

    WoW sunsets gear constantly.

    What kind of timeframe is "constantly"?

    Constantly depends on where you are in an expac. Each raid tier replaces the tier before it. Start a new expac in previous content's last tier raid armor. Use that until you're level cap and doing dungeons, slowly replace raid gear with new 5 man dungeon gear, PVP gear, vendor gear, crafted gear. If you didn't raid the expac before (and everyone can, because of LFR difficulty where anyone can raid matchmake.) you're wearing quest greens and dropped gear, early crafted gear. Ultimately, do a raid tier, then start replacing first raid tier with the next raid tier. It's a constant cycle of swapping out armor and weapons, growing in power. Each expac has 3 or so tiers of raids. The final tier tends to have an area associated with it where you can earn gear that will let you shortcut the power level of the previous raid so you can join in on the last tier.

    Weapons are less complex, without perks and such. Perks / talents and such are in the player themselves.

    Nosf on
    Basil
  • SirialisSirialis of the Halite Throne. Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    I can just imagine the outcry if WoW’s newest raid produced gear “Reissued” from 5 expansions ago like Prophecy.

    I have played WoW up to all the Death Knight stuff and the two games weapons cant really be compared, most of WoW’s weapons are a bunch of numbers for flat damage (Staff of Ephemeral Power, Azuresong Mageblade etc.) and some Destiny weapons are literal playstyles, there isnt a single other gun like Loaded Question, which is one of my favorites but Bungie think I should care about their latest halfassed reskinned weapons thats behind a paywall instead? Get out.

    Sirialis on
  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    Sirialis wrote: »
    I can just imagine the outcry if WoW’s newest raid produced gear “Reissued” from 5 expansions ago like Prophecy.

    I have played WoW up to all the Death Knight stuff and the two games weapons cant really be compared, most of WoW’s weapons are a bunch of numbers for flat damage (Staff of Ephemeral Power, Azuresong Mageblade etc.) and some Destiny weapons are literal playstyles, there isnt a single other gun like Loaded Question, which is one of my favorites but Bungie think I should care about their latest halfassed reskinned weapons thats behind a paywall instead? Get out.

    They sort of did a few expacs ago, they took the classic raid tiers and redid them with higher res models and some new sparkly effects and such. People were fucking thrilled, the armor looked absolutely killer. They also introduced "timewalking" where you can go back and do older content that has more up to date item levels. It works pretty well and keeps older content at least a little relevant.

    shryke
  • SirialisSirialis of the Halite Throne. Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    What you are describing sounds a little like this update from D1.

    otd5tzhf48u4.jpeg

    If only Destiny 2 had an update like this.

    Sirialis on
    Arteen
  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Yeah, that's sort of what they did. Raids in WoW have different difficulties, the armor from different difficulties has different colours. The highest has sparkly effects and shit. the gist of it was we were going into an ancient part of WoW lore so they brought back some armor sets that were relevant to that setting, IIRC.

    Nosf on
  • ArteenArteen Adept ValeRegistered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Nosf wrote: »
    They all do it aside from ESO by the sounds of it, and they do it constantly. Each raid tier in WoW replaces the previous raid tier. You're constantly improving and eventually, th
    Arteen wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Arteen wrote: »
    Nosf wrote: »
    All MMOs sunset weapons and armor, Bungie just doesn't seem (at the moment) to have the ability to keep up with generating new ones to replace the old. Reissuing old gear is a mistake.
    Not really? I only play one MMO, Elder Scrolls Online, and it doesn't do that. No sunsetting, no gear treadmills, no removing content from the game, no FOMO outside of cash shop cosmetics and the like.

    I'm really curious what successful, well-loved MMOs work like Destiny 2.

    WoW sunsets gear constantly.

    What kind of timeframe is "constantly"?

    Constantly depends on where you are in an expac. Each raid tier replaces the tier before it. Start a new expac in previous content's last tier raid armor. Use that until you're level cap and doing dungeons, slowly replace raid gear with new 5 man dungeon gear, PVP gear, vendor gear, crafted gear. If you didn't raid the expac before (and everyone can, because of LFR difficulty where anyone can raid matchmake.) you're wearing quest greens and dropped gear, early crafted gear. Ultimately, do a raid tier, then start replacing first raid tier with the next raid tier. It's a constant cycle of swapping out armor and weapons, growing in power. Each expac has 3 or so tiers of raids. The final tier tends to have an area associated with it where you can earn gear that will let you shortcut the power level of the previous raid so you can join in on the last tier.

    Weapons are less complex, without perks and such. Perks / talents and such are in the player themselves.

    From what I've heard, Guild Wars has a similar approach to leveling as ESO.

    That approach to items doesn't sound quite the same as Destiny sunsetting. That's more of a leveling system than a retirement system. You're playing progressively harder activities to get gear with progressively higher numbers. It's primarily making numbers go up.

    Destiny doesn't really have an equivalent to this. The randomness of gear stats, especially weapon rolls means that you can't just get a "better" copy of a weapon from a higher level activity. It can have a higher number next to it, but it could easily have trash perks and be worse in functionality and less enjoyable to use. And with all the various weapons and archetypes and perks, best-in-slot gear can come from any activity. There's nothing that makes endgame loot strictly better than a good roll on a good world drop weapon you could find on a dreg in the EDZ.

    Another point is progressing through the endgame by playing through the endgame. That's what you described in WoW, and what Destiny used to have when raids had multiple difficulty levels. But now in Destiny 2, you play through primarily old, well-worn activities to reach the level of the raid. At which point you're almost done with leveling.

    Arteen on
  • OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular
    So, it's it just me or has matchmaking for PvE gotten a bit wonky lately. I've been popping into strikes five feet from the final boss area and just now entered a Menagerie that was already done.

  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    Owenashi wrote: »
    So, it's it just me or has matchmaking for PvE gotten a bit wonky lately. I've been popping into strikes five feet from the final boss area and just now entered a Menagerie that was already done.

    Stuff like this has been happening to me but I thought it was down to me finally putting a ssd in my PS4. Sometimes I'll get into a strke minutes before anyone else with no enemies spawned yet and have time to run halfway through until I reach a door that gates pregress. Also, would not have gotten back into Destiny without ssd because the difference is huge.

  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    Arteen wrote: »
    Nosf wrote: »
    They all do it aside from ESO by the sounds of it, and they do it constantly. Each raid tier in WoW replaces the previous raid tier. You're constantly improving and eventually, th
    Arteen wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Arteen wrote: »
    Nosf wrote: »
    All MMOs sunset weapons and armor, Bungie just doesn't seem (at the moment) to have the ability to keep up with generating new ones to replace the old. Reissuing old gear is a mistake.
    Not really? I only play one MMO, Elder Scrolls Online, and it doesn't do that. No sunsetting, no gear treadmills, no removing content from the game, no FOMO outside of cash shop cosmetics and the like.

    I'm really curious what successful, well-loved MMOs work like Destiny 2.

    WoW sunsets gear constantly.

    What kind of timeframe is "constantly"?

    Constantly depends on where you are in an expac. Each raid tier replaces the tier before it. Start a new expac in previous content's last tier raid armor. Use that until you're level cap and doing dungeons, slowly replace raid gear with new 5 man dungeon gear, PVP gear, vendor gear, crafted gear. If you didn't raid the expac before (and everyone can, because of LFR difficulty where anyone can raid matchmake.) you're wearing quest greens and dropped gear, early crafted gear. Ultimately, do a raid tier, then start replacing first raid tier with the next raid tier. It's a constant cycle of swapping out armor and weapons, growing in power. Each expac has 3 or so tiers of raids. The final tier tends to have an area associated with it where you can earn gear that will let you shortcut the power level of the previous raid so you can join in on the last tier.

    Weapons are less complex, without perks and such. Perks / talents and such are in the player themselves.

    From what I've heard, Guild Wars has a similar approach to leveling as ESO.

    That approach to items doesn't sound quite the same as Destiny sunsetting. That's more of a leveling system than a retirement system. You're playing progressively harder activities to get gear with progressively higher numbers. It's primarily making numbers go up.

    Destiny doesn't really have an equivalent to this. The randomness of gear stats, especially weapon rolls means that you can't just get a "better" copy of a weapon from a higher level activity. It can have a higher number next to it, but it could easily have trash perks and be worse in functionality and less enjoyable to use. And with all the various weapons and archetypes and perks, best-in-slot gear can come from any activity. There's nothing that makes endgame loot strictly better than a good roll on a good world drop weapon you could find on a dreg in the EDZ.

    Another point is progressing through the endgame by playing through the endgame. That's what you described in WoW, and what Destiny used to have when raids had multiple difficulty levels. But now in Destiny 2, you play through primarily old, well-worn activities to reach the level of the raid. At which point you're almost done with leveling.

    You can run higher levels of dungeons, much like Destiny's nightfalls/ordeals; they go up 15 odd ranks and each rank gives you slightly better versions of the drops for that dungeon. Imagine running grandmaster nightfalls and getting better versions of weapons and such. The primary benefit here is it created a whole new endgame activity instead of raids which require 10+ people; mythic dungeons only needed 5 people and were incredibly rewarding.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    I think sunsetting is good, sunsetting an old weapon and replacing it with the same weapon is bad.

    I think it's not necessarily bad to bring old weapons back as long as they aren't the majority of the drop. Bringing a few old favourites back into the game at current usability levels can be fun.

    I think while Bungie is not doing the best job here (they are still producing way too few new items this season for instance), some of the problems we are seeing now are also heavily based in the awkwardness of the transition. They are introducing stuff that's going to last almost all of next year but they haven't yet sunset the old stuff, so you get this awkward doubling situation like with, for example, Gnawing Hunger. Where for this season at least all the reissued stuff is identical to the stuff we already have.

    But if a year from now they bring back a few weapons that were sunset and haven't been able to be max power level for like a year, that would probably work.

    DodgeBlancB557Bizazedo
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Arteen wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Arteen wrote: »
    Nosf wrote: »
    All MMOs sunset weapons and armor, Bungie just doesn't seem (at the moment) to have the ability to keep up with generating new ones to replace the old. Reissuing old gear is a mistake.
    Not really? I only play one MMO, Elder Scrolls Online, and it doesn't do that. No sunsetting, no gear treadmills, no removing content from the game, no FOMO outside of cash shop cosmetics and the like.

    I'm really curious what successful, well-loved MMOs work like Destiny 2.

    WoW sunsets gear constantly.

    What kind of timeframe is "constantly"?

    Every expansion, presumably.

    Even faster then that technically since each new raid tier released will basically replace the previous one. But for sure each expansion, especially since they often come with major shakeups to the various other systems, is in some ways a clean slate.

  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    Bringing back old guns should be a big deal and happen quite some time later, maybe one at a time - special ones.

    Not the whole whack of semi forgettable Iron Banner guns...that look bad.

  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    Sirialis wrote: »
    What you are describing sounds a little like this update from D1.

    <snip>

    If only Destiny 2 had an update like this.

    Man. I forgot how redonk armor got, looks-wise, by the end of D1. I remember thinking how boring armor was D2 Y1 but not quite the degree of glowy shit that was abounding post-RoI.

    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    Don't worry, they added Solstice gear!

    https://youtu.be/KcHEv7opi9w

    Basilshryke
  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Don't worry, they added Solstice gear!

    https://youtu.be/KcHEv7opi9w

    Don't cry, they'll probably reissue Solstice Gear during the Age of Triumphs coming out later on!

    And Beyond Light will then probably completely make it unusable somehow, as is tradition!

    CptHamiltonDyvim TvarBasilshryke
  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    Solice gear! The gift that doesn't give any more. Ever. At all.

    I'm still gonna grind the shit out of it, though.

    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
  • RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    First, thanks for the responses on the gear leveling changes. I would have never figured that out.

    Second, man that sounds not great. It would be fine if it was all new stuff, but its just reissues of the gear we have now, with new rolls?

    Ew.

    Lastly, thanks to the clan for letting my son and a family friend in. We pretty much always play as a fireteam, so its nice having them on the same tag and contributing clan XP.

    Whatever weirdness because Bungie has to Bungie, the game has really come together for me in playing it with my son. Between the core experience and how easy its gotten on Xbox to save and share content, we basically have a video game family photo album going.

    BasilShamus
  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    I like this season. Is 1050 the max light level for trials?

    Read my blog about AMERICA and THE BAY AREA

    https://medium.com/@alascii
Sign In or Register to comment.