[Social Media]: The Intersection Of Money, Policy, And Hate

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    Wow. A whole up to five developers.

    This gives me nightmarish visions of an open source social media standard designed and developed by five white men :bigfrown:

    Nightmarish? Or "well, duh" ish?

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    Wow. A whole up to five developers.

    This gives me nightmarish visions of an open source social media standard designed and developed by five white men :bigfrown:

    Nightmarish? Or "well, duh" ish?

    Yes.

    Jedoc wrote: »
    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
    BlackDragon480AngelHedgieAegis
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    This is what you need if you ever want to solve the inherent monopoly problem of social media. A common standard for full interoperability would allow competition on the basis of UI and feed algorithm rather than network effects.

    The theoretical capabilities of blockchains even kind of make sense, although I see some obvious issues with volume and privacy and security.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
    Kaputa
  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    This is what you need if you ever want to solve the inherent monopoly problem of social media. A common standard for full interoperability would allow competition on the basis of UI and feed algorithm rather than network effects.

    The theoretical capabilities of blockchains even kind of make sense, although I see some obvious issues with volume and privacy and security.

    If I recall my limited understanding of blockchains correctly, they are fairly trivial to compromise with a big enough botnet. Which is to say, not trivial at all; but the main obstacle is sheer amounts of money and hardware.

    Good thing there are no nation-states with an axe to grind and plenty of experience in deploying botnets to screw with social media!

    (Or am I completely wrong about this? It's not my area of expertise.)

    Jedoc wrote: »
    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    The money and hardware scales to the size of the target though. Since you gotta have 50+1

    The main thing is that I don’t understand what a blockchain solves. A tweet isn’t a transaction and therefore you do not have to prove you possess anything in order to send one. Similarly for any social media post. If it’s anonymous then it can just be anonymous. If it’s not then it’s not. If you wanted to make an open source structure you could just have an API that is accessible via a uniquely random log in and password.

    Which is just normal ass security

    wbBv3fj.png
    shrykeElvenshaeNobeardMoridin889
  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Typical dumb shit idea from a dude who Just Doesn't Get It.

    ElvenshaeCidTheSquidTicaldfjam
  • evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular
    Actually, I'll design an open decentralized standard for social media right here, right now. It's RSS. You put your content on whatever site you feel like, whether that be Twitter or your own personal site, have that autogenerate a RSS feed, then you follow someone by adding their feed to whatever you're using as a client. This is already existing technology, it just needs a better UI, a couple "nice-to-have" features, and for social media companies to actually use the thing.

    Note: Twitter used to provide RSS feeds. They stopped.

    BlackDragon480MvrckshrykeElvenshaeMoridin889
  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    edited January 14
    Actually, I'll design an open decentralized standard for social media right here, right now. It's RSS. You put your content on whatever site you feel like, whether that be Twitter or your own personal site, have that autogenerate a RSS feed, then you follow someone by adding their feed to whatever you're using as a client. This is already existing technology, it just needs a better UI, a couple "nice-to-have" features, and for social media companies to actually use the thing.

    Note: Twitter used to provide RSS feeds. They stopped.

    xkcd: Standards

    My last job dealt heavily with writing and maintaining code to consume data feeds that were theoretically using standard formats.

    Invariably, "one bespoke class per feed" would turn out to be the most feasible way to do it.

    (Inserting an image url doesn't work on mobile; trying to get the tag right)

    edit: screw it, just have a link. It's that xkcd comic about standards.

    Calica on
    Jedoc wrote: »
    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
    thatassemblyguyElvenshaeJragghen
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    The money and hardware scales to the size of the target though. Since you gotta have 50+1

    The main thing is that I don’t understand what a blockchain solves. A tweet isn’t a transaction and therefore you do not have to prove you possess anything in order to send one. Similarly for any social media post. If it’s anonymous then it can just be anonymous. If it’s not then it’s not. If you wanted to make an open source structure you could just have an API that is accessible via a uniquely random log in and password.

    Which is just normal ass security

    I think it's the not needing a central authority and the ability to identify users to their data? Like you want to be able to tell that Bob sent the tweet and not anyone else claiming to be Bob.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
    redx
  • BronzeKoopaBronzeKoopa Registered User regular
    Actually, I'll design an open decentralized standard for social media right here, right now. It's RSS. You put your content on whatever site you feel like, whether that be Twitter or your own personal site, have that autogenerate a RSS feed, then you follow someone by adding their feed to whatever you're using as a client. This is already existing technology, it just needs a better UI, a couple "nice-to-have" features, and for social media companies to actually use the thing.

    Note: Twitter used to provide RSS feeds. They stopped.

    I miss google reader.

    BlackDragon480TomantajmcdonaldCouscousElvenshaewobblyheadedbobCaptain Inertia
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    Actually, I'll design an open decentralized standard for social media right here, right now. It's RSS. You put your content on whatever site you feel like, whether that be Twitter or your own personal site, have that autogenerate a RSS feed, then you follow someone by adding their feed to whatever you're using as a client. This is already existing technology, it just needs a better UI, a couple "nice-to-have" features, and for social media companies to actually use the thing.

    Note: Twitter used to provide RSS feeds. They stopped.

    xkcd: Standards

    My last job dealt heavily with writing and maintaining code to consume data feeds that were theoretically using standard formats.

    Invariably, "one bespoke class per feed" would turn out to be the most feasible way to do it.

    (Inserting an image url doesn't work on mobile; trying to get the tag right)

    edit: screw it, just have a link. It's that xkcd comic about standards.

    standards.png

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    MorninglordCelestialBadgerElvenshaeCalicaMoridin889Captain Inertia
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    Actually, I'll design an open decentralized standard for social media right here, right now. It's RSS. You put your content on whatever site you feel like, whether that be Twitter or your own personal site, have that autogenerate a RSS feed, then you follow someone by adding their feed to whatever you're using as a client. This is already existing technology, it just needs a better UI, a couple "nice-to-have" features, and for social media companies to actually use the thing.

    Note: Twitter used to provide RSS feeds. They stopped.

    xkcd: Standards

    My last job dealt heavily with writing and maintaining code to consume data feeds that were theoretically using standard formats.

    Invariably, "one bespoke class per feed" would turn out to be the most feasible way to do it.

    (Inserting an image url doesn't work on mobile; trying to get the tag right)

    edit: screw it, just have a link. It's that xkcd comic about standards.

    On the one hand, yeah, sure. On the other hand the hardware world has demonstrated you can actually do a pretty good job at getting everyone on the same standard. Sometimes even fucking Apple!

    I suspect it's entirely because consumers can spot hardware incompatibility issues a lot more easily then software ones and so are more vocal about how they hate that crap and don't wanna put up with it. Software is fucking magic behind the scenes though so most people just don't know it could be better.

    Calicalunchbox12682
  • MonwynMonwyn Registered User regular
    I'm trying to think of software standards that have been implemented and lasted more than a decade that aren't just file types or low-level stuff like c-type strings and the only things that immediately come to mind are SSL and TCP/IP. Good luck, I guess!

    uH3IcEi.png
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    The money and hardware scales to the size of the target though. Since you gotta have 50+1

    The main thing is that I don’t understand what a blockchain solves. A tweet isn’t a transaction and therefore you do not have to prove you possess anything in order to send one. Similarly for any social media post. If it’s anonymous then it can just be anonymous. If it’s not then it’s not. If you wanted to make an open source structure you could just have an API that is accessible via a uniquely random log in and password.

    Which is just normal ass security

    I think it's the not needing a central authority and the ability to identify users to their data? Like you want to be able to tell that Bob sent the tweet and not anyone else claiming to be Bob.

    It's telling that when Dorsey is getting heavily questioned about how he wields the power that Twitter grants him, his response is to find a way to nope out without actually doing the right thing and resigning.

    First off, currency blockchains are already massive and unwieldy, and they barely hold any data. Can you imagine how massive a blockchain containing images and video would be? Part of why social media is built around a "central authority" is because somebody has to host the data.

    Second, this doesn't solve any of the problems that people have with Twitter - it just lets Jack Dorsey say "not my fault". Which, if that is really such a concern for him, he should just fucking resign already.

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  • evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    Actually, I'll design an open decentralized standard for social media right here, right now. It's RSS. You put your content on whatever site you feel like, whether that be Twitter or your own personal site, have that autogenerate a RSS feed, then you follow someone by adding their feed to whatever you're using as a client. This is already existing technology, it just needs a better UI, a couple "nice-to-have" features, and for social media companies to actually use the thing.

    Note: Twitter used to provide RSS feeds. They stopped.

    xkcd: Standards

    My last job dealt heavily with writing and maintaining code to consume data feeds that were theoretically using standard formats.

    Invariably, "one bespoke class per feed" would turn out to be the most feasible way to do it.

    (Inserting an image url doesn't work on mobile; trying to get the tag right)

    edit: screw it, just have a link. It's that xkcd comic about standards.

    On the one hand, yeah, sure. On the other hand the hardware world has demonstrated you can actually do a pretty good job at getting everyone on the same standard. Sometimes even fucking Apple!

    I suspect it's entirely because consumers can spot hardware incompatibility issues a lot more easily then software ones and so are more vocal about how they hate that crap and don't wanna put up with it. Software is fucking magic behind the scenes though so most people just don't know it could be better.

    I'll note that getting all cellphones using usb required actual legislation. (EU, I think, then everyone just stuck with it worldwide.)

    Moridin889
  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    From a PR perspective, hyping up a 5 developer moonshot that isn't going to work is a nice way to get libertarian crypto fringe off your back for the foreseeable future

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
    evilmrhenryGilgaronshrykeShadowfireDoodmannFencingsaxJaysonFourCaptain InertiaEnc
  • GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    From a PR perspective, hyping up a 5 developer moonshot that isn't going to work is a nice way to get libertarian crypto fringe off your back for the foreseeable future

    Yeah this is totally "we'll have a subcommittee look at it, we might even look at the monthly power point update they put together!"

    FencingsaxMoridin889
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    But to the blockchain crowd, having five whole developers on a weird project is something along the lines of a miracle.

    I'm reminded of the "Premise is faulty! No man rich enough for TWO potato!" joke.

    dkj3oHf.jpg
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    The money and hardware scales to the size of the target though. Since you gotta have 50+1

    The main thing is that I don’t understand what a blockchain solves. A tweet isn’t a transaction and therefore you do not have to prove you possess anything in order to send one. Similarly for any social media post. If it’s anonymous then it can just be anonymous. If it’s not then it’s not. If you wanted to make an open source structure you could just have an API that is accessible via a uniquely random log in and password.

    Which is just normal ass security

    I think it's the not needing a central authority and the ability to identify users to their data? Like you want to be able to tell that Bob sent the tweet and not anyone else claiming to be Bob.

    Wouldn't it also make it impossible to erase content that's been posted?

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    It would, unless 50% of the people decided it was worth deleting something

    wbBv3fj.png
    BlackDragon480CalicaMoridin889
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    That's the point.
    Dorsey doesn't want to be forced to take down any more tweets for 'inciting violence' IMO.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    That's the point.
    Dorsey doesn't want to be forced to take down any more tweets for 'inciting violence' IMO.

    Basically, there's a long history of the tech community reacting to accountability in much the same way Peter Thiel reacts to sunlight. They try to frame it as "empowering users" whenever they can, but the real motiation is to avvoid taking responsibility for managing what they create. Look at Cloudflare CEO Matthew Prince's rant after he stopped doing business with the Daily Stormer - he talks about "nobody should have the power" to "remove" a website unilaterally, but fails to mention that the sole reason he has that power is because of Cloudflare, and if he truly believed what he said, he would have shut it down.

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    The obvious problem with that is what happens if someone dumps something like child porn into the chain and it isn't immediately caught.

    evilmrhenryMoridin889
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    That's the point.
    Dorsey doesn't want to be forced to take down any more tweets for 'inciting violence' IMO.

    Which is why Boebert is already back on Twitter even though she was supposed to be out until after inauguration.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
    MrVyngaard
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    The obvious problem with that is what happens if someone dumps something like child porn into the chain and it isn't immediately caught.

    It stays there.
    There's already child porn on Bitcoin, but it's all steganography-ied up.

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Monwyn wrote: »
    I'm trying to think of software standards that have been implemented and lasted more than a decade that aren't just file types or low-level stuff like c-type strings and the only things that immediately come to mind are SSL and TCP/IP. Good luck, I guess!

    Still using IRC after all these years! Suck it, Facebook!

    thatassemblyguyMonwynDoodmannQanamilMoridin889
  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    Building a universal social media protocol seems fairly straight-forward. It's not RSS because the feed/subscriber relationship doesn't quite map to the friends and followers relationships in a way you could leverage to implement those features and because RSS does not have the kind of tagging mechanisms required for social media likes/comments/reactions/etc.

    Stacking it on top of a blockchain smacks of desperate appeal-to-buzzword behavior, though, as that's just a terrible idea from every direction.

    Actually, making the whole thing distributed via any mechanism seems like a terrible idea. "People are upset with how we are (not at all) administrating social media. Guess the best answer is to make sure no one can possibly ever moderate social media again!"

    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
    IncenjucarHappylilElfMrVyngaard
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    having no control over what entities get access to both my posts and my social graph

    gee

    didn't we get all pissed off at Facebook for sharing this shit with Cambridge Analytica? And now we're suggesting doing it but for free?

    How about no

    HappylilElfFencingsaxredxShadowfireMartini_PhilosopherMoridin889
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    Monwyn wrote: »
    I'm trying to think of software standards that have been implemented and lasted more than a decade that aren't just file types or low-level stuff like c-type strings and the only things that immediately come to mind are SSL and TCP/IP. Good luck, I guess!

    Still using IRC after all these years! Suck it, Facebook!

    Okay Johnny-Come-Lately...I still visit and post to some usenet groups in the humanities.* hierarchies from when I was actively seeking graduate placements and working as a research aide to some of my professors.

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    edited January 16
    jmcdonald wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    jmcdonald wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »


    Honestly, a good question is what resources do countries have against social media manipulation. Is the same reason why Merkel and a good chunk of the EU has come against Trump's ban, is not about Trump per se, but about the likes of the Zucc having more power than a national government, and the EU has been spending a lot of effort in at least, cutting the power of social media companies over EU citizens.

    "But they are private companies and blah blah". Don't care.

    The POTUS account still exists

    He can't actually use it. Twitter nukes any post made.

    Maybe he shouldn’t be inciting violence?

    I have no issue with moderation on clear calls to violence regardless of who is posting it.

    I’m late on this but also, in this moment it’s good to remember:

    He is the president of the United States of America.

    Twitter, for god’s sake, is not his sole means of communication, even if it is clearly his favorite.

    Mother of god, the office has a press secretary. A PRESS SECRETARY
    .

    And like jmcdonald said, this isn’t just for no good reason, this is because the man has repeatedly used the platform to ignite a fascist movement that two weeks ago lashed out in an armed revolt to try and contravene his election loss, and countless other flare points along the way (remember how his shit sparked militia members to try to kidnap the governor of Michigan, plot to seize the state capitol and stage live executions of their political enemies once they seized said state capitol?).

    Unless Merkel starts fomenting a conspiratorial and armed uprising against her electoral opponents, I don’t think she exactly has anything to fear from Jack Dorsey banning her.

    Lanz on
    waNkm4k.jpg?1
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  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    Monwyn wrote: »
    I'm trying to think of software standards that have been implemented and lasted more than a decade that aren't just file types or low-level stuff like c-type strings and the only things that immediately come to mind are SSL and TCP/IP. Good luck, I guess!

    Still using IRC after all these years! Suck it, Facebook!

    Okay Johnny-Come-Lately...I still visit and post to some usenet groups in the humanities.* hierarchies from when I was actively seeking graduate placements and working as a research aide to some of my professors.

    Oh ya? Well not that long ago I sent a letter in the mail!

    Steam! Battlenet:Wisemantobes#1508
    OrcaElvenshaeCaptain Inertia
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    Monwyn wrote: »
    I'm trying to think of software standards that have been implemented and lasted more than a decade that aren't just file types or low-level stuff like c-type strings and the only things that immediately come to mind are SSL and TCP/IP. Good luck, I guess!

    Still using IRC after all these years! Suck it, Facebook!

    Okay Johnny-Come-Lately...I still visit and post to some usenet groups in the humanities.* hierarchies from when I was actively seeking graduate placements and working as a research aide to some of my professors.

    Oh ya? Well not that long ago I sent a letter in the mail!

    A letter? As in singular?

    jfc bro get back to me when ur mass mailing chain letters

    OrcaElvenshae
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited January 16
    Orca wrote: »
    Monwyn wrote: »
    I'm trying to think of software standards that have been implemented and lasted more than a decade that aren't just file types or low-level stuff like c-type strings and the only things that immediately come to mind are SSL and TCP/IP. Good luck, I guess!

    Still using IRC after all these years! Suck it, Facebook!

    Okay Johnny-Come-Lately...I still visit and post to some usenet groups in the humanities.* hierarchies from when I was actively seeking graduate placements and working as a research aide to some of my professors.

    Oh ya? Well not that long ago I sent a letter in the mail!

    -. .. -.-. .

    BlackDragon480 on
    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
    OrcaElvenshaeFencingsaxRhesus PositiveCaptain Inertia
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    Monwyn wrote: »
    I'm trying to think of software standards that have been implemented and lasted more than a decade that aren't just file types or low-level stuff like c-type strings and the only things that immediately come to mind are SSL and TCP/IP. Good luck, I guess!

    Still using IRC after all these years! Suck it, Facebook!

    Okay Johnny-Come-Lately...I still visit and post to some usenet groups in the humanities.* hierarchies from when I was actively seeking graduate placements and working as a research aide to some of my professors.

    Man...all the usenet groups I used to subscribe to are dead. :(

  • lunchbox12682lunchbox12682 MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    I need to go see if my old gopher groups are still out there.

  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    I need to go see if my old gopher groups are still out there.

    okay you win

    Special K
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    Orca wrote: »
    I need to go see if my old gopher groups are still out there.

    okay you win

    nah, I was on fidonet. Some other folks on these here forums were also.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
    Hahnsoo1Special KBlackDragon480CptHamilton
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    In more "resign, Jack" news, apparently the decision to ban Trump was Dorsey against, everyone else for:
    But Mr. Dorsey was not sold on a permanent ban of Mr. Trump. He emailed employees the next day, saying it was important for the company to remain consistent with its policies, including letting a user return after a suspension.

    Many workers, fearing that history would not look kindly upon them, were dissatisfied. Several invoked IBM’s collaboration with the Nazis, said current and former Twitter employees, and started a petition to immediately remove Mr. Trump’s account.

    That same day, Facebook barred Mr. Trump through at least the end of his term. But he returned to Twitter that evening with a video saying there would be a peaceful transition of power.

    By the next morning, though, Mr. Trump was back at it. He tweeted that his base would have a “GIANT VOICE” and that he would not attend the Jan. 20 inauguration.

    Twitter’s safety team immediately saw Trump fans, who had been saying the president abandoned them, post about further unrest, said the people with knowledge of the matter. In a Parler message that the safety team reviewed, one user said anyone who opposed “American Patriots” like himself should leave Washington or risk physical harm during the inauguration.

    The safety team began drafting an analysis of the tweets and whether they constituted grounds for kicking off Mr. Trump, the people said.

    Around noon in San Francisco that day, Mr. Dorsey called in for an employee meeting. Some pressed him on why Mr. Trump was not permanently barred.

    Mr. Dorsey repeated that Twitter should be consistent with its policies. But he said he had drawn a line in the sand that the president could not cross or Mr. Trump would lose his account privileges, people with knowledge of the event said.

    After the meeting, Mr. Dorsey and other executives agreed that Mr. Trump’s tweets that morning — and the responses they had provoked — had crossed that line, the people said. The employee letter asking for Mr. Trump’s removal was later delivered, they said.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Twitter should be consistent and let people back ahahahahahahahahahah bullshit. That's not how they operate at *all*. I know of multiple accounts banned for quoting threats they had been given. No recourse.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Twitter should be consistent and let people back ahahahahahahahahahah bullshit. That's not how they operate at *all*. I know of multiple accounts banned for quoting threats they had been given. No recourse.

    Yeah, someone needs to point out to Jack that before you can argue that you need to remain consistent, you need to be consistent.

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