The General [Coronavirus] Discussion Thread can't open until schools do.

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  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    From updates thread:
    Jragghen wrote: »

    So much for "it's going to disappear on its own."

    To be fair, at this point there isn't exactly a lot the federal government can actually do given how widely this shit has spread and how many people are refusing to use common sense for dealing with it.

    They could issue a statement saying masks absolutely should be worn at all times in public.

    They could inject relief to restaurants so that they could close in-person dining without suffering economic disaster.

    They could maintain some kind of solidarity across the country, canceling conventions and rallies for the purpose of protecting people.

    They could stop pissing the limited quantities of therapeutics down their leg.

    They could do a fucking lot more than stone cold nothing! In fact! Nothing might be preferable to the "Let's help the virus spread" bullshit they've been pulling!

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited July 4
    kime wrote: »
    I read somewhere that there was a study that said opening schools was better for kids due to social/physical risks from staying isolated at home, even considering Covid. I can't remember where that was so I'm uncertain how reliable that was. Anyone know?

    The American Academy of Pediatrics has recommended reopening schools in the US.

    "With the above principles in mind, the AAP strongly advocates that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school. The importance of in-person learning is well-documented, and there is already evidence of the negative impacts on children because of school closures in the spring of 2020. Lengthy time away from school and associated interruption of supportive services often results in social isolation, making it difficult for schools to identify and address important learning deficits as well as child and adolescent physical or sexual abuse, substance use, depression, and suicidal ideation. This, in turn, places children and adolescents at considerable risk of morbidity and, in some cases, mortality. Beyond the educational impact and social impact of school closures, there has been substantial impact on food security and physical activity for children and families."

    We had similar things coming out of Sick Kids up here:
    http://www.sickkids.ca/AboutSickKids/Newsroom/Past-News/2020/covid19-recommendations-school-reopening.html

    From what I can tell most pediatric-type groups (child psychologists and all that) are basically saying kids need to go back to school for their own wellbeing.

    shryke on
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Yeah, the problem is he said it was no big deal for months and going to hard backwards will strip out the gears of even the folks who vote for the GOP still.

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  • GyralGyral Registered User regular
    ceres wrote: »
    Has he said anything about Cain? I'm guessing he won't even if the guy dies. Barely knew him, and all that.
    Another coffee boy.

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    Elvenshae
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    Quite honestly I don't give a fuck what pediatricians say right now.

    Doctors are notoriously shitty experts at anything even slightly out of their specific field.

    I bet podiatrists and plastic surgeons think it's totally cool if we open up again, too.

    True and good to keep in mind. But child health is the specific field of pediatricians. I'd say thier word on on this subject is mostly trustworthy. A little less so on the mental health aspect, perhaps.

    The people who specialize in childhood mental health and development are, afaik, also saying the same thing. That's the basis of the recommendation really.

    ShadowhopeNobeardkime
  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    From updates thread:
    Jragghen wrote: »

    So much for "it's going to disappear on its own."

    To be fair, at this point there isn't exactly a lot the federal government can actually do given how widely this shit has spread and how many people are refusing to use common sense for dealing with it.

    Like, if trump had taken put forthe the most basic effort to corral this thing back in january or early febuary you could have probably been ahead of europe at this point.

    Bullshit. If the federal government stepped in now the suffering and death could still be minimized. No, we won't have it under in control in a month, and there will still be a few hundred thousand dead, but we could conceivably get things back under control in 3-6 months.

    But that's not going to happen because Trump is an incompetent ass that doesn't want to put on a mask or deal with hard things.

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  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    It's never too late to do the next right thing.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    The thing about the death rate is so dumb, because we are just now seeing the outbreaks in Florida, Texas, Arizona, etc. reach the point where the death rate spiked in New York. If we continue to see a lower death rate over the next two weeks, maybe we can say something about the death rate.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    The whole school debate is a thing because of how bad the conservative approach is for a situation like this

    We have two incredibly shitty options for schooling that both lead to terrible outcomes for an entire generation of kids because the nation is beholden to a death cult that thought a highly infectious, highly deadly, highly dangerous novel disease was an individual responsibility issue

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  • HenroidHenroid Seize the Memes Registered User regular
    Gonna say the obvious that everyone here already knew, but when Trump says "we have to live with it" he means "you have to live with it." He will continue to get security and safety from the disease.

    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
    I stream at night - /henroidt on Twitch
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  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited July 4
    Firsthand account from someone who has "recovered" from Covid about how the disease has changed her life - and how she's not the only one:


    Hey, so, I got Covid19 in March. I’ve been sick for over 3 months w/ severe respiratory, cardiovascular & neurological symptoms. I still have a fever. I’ve been incapacitated for nearly a season of my life. It's not enough to not die. You don’t want to live thru this, either.

    I am not unique. Support groups have sprung up all over the internet because medical science doesn’t know what to do with the hundreds of thousands of Covid patients who don’t get better in the (utter and complete bullshit, and they know it) CDC guidelines of 2-6 weeks.

    The CDC is also refusing to add widely-reported, terrifying symptoms to their lists. So here’s a grab bag of what patients like me are experiencing, so you know: Extreme tachycardia. My heart rate was once 160 while I was sleeping. Chest pain, like someone’s sitting…

    ...on your sternum. Back and rib pain like someone’s taken a baseball bat to your torso. Fatigue like you’ve never felt before in your life. Fatigue like your body is shutting off. Fatigue so bad that it would often make me cry because I thought it might mean I was dying.

    GI problems, diarrhea to severe acid reflux. I had diarrhea every day for two+ months. Unbearable nausea. Also: Inexplicable rashes. For me, little broken blood vessels all over my body. For many of us, a constant shortness of breath that doctors can’t find an explanation for.

    Neurological symptoms. I had delirium & hallucinations. Many report tingling all over their body, an internal “buzzing” or “vibrating.” Also, insomnia & chronic hypnic bodily jerks. One symptom so weird that I thought it was just me, but it turns out it’s so many of us…

    was waking up in the middle of the night, gasping for breath. I also experienced tremors while trying to sleep, like someone was shaking the bed. Also: many report a “hot head.” Mine literally radiated heat, despite not hitting a high fever. Then, there’s the confusion…

    The “brain fog.” I couldn’t read or make sense of text at times. I couldn’t remember words. I’d stare at my partner at a loss for what I needed to communicate, or how to do it. Also: thickening of the blood, clotting. Weird, inexplicable changes to the menstrual cycle.

    Everyone knows the lung stuff already, so I won't elaborate. But it doesn’t just go away. I wake up every morning & when I breathe in, it feels like someone is crinkling plastic in my chest. And these are just the symptoms. I’m not even touching the physical damage done…

    ...to patients’ organs and bodily systems. I’m also not touching the mental component of this, which is compounded by the very virtue of not knowing if it’ll eventually kill you. But long-term covid sufferers all report the same thing: that the recovery is non-linear.

    You’ll wake up feeling better and assume, like would be true for the flu or a cold, you’re on the mend. But then... you get worse. & then you're feeling better again! & then you’re bedridden, worse than before. It makes no sense. You start to think you’re losing your grip...

    or maybe it’s all in your head. It isn’t. Thousands & thousands are experiencing these cycles. At some point, I realized that this was causing a trauma response in my body, which only seemed to worsen recovery. And I’m someone who’s learned over the years how to tend to...

    their mental health needs pretty well. This experience is a whole other ball game. It is terrifying what it did to my mind. There are parts of the experience I am well aware I've blocked out in order to function, and times my partner has to remind me of things I've shut out.

    There's so much we don't know — including if these physical damages are permanent or, for some, will lead to chronic illness. But one thing we do know is this isn’t the fucking flu. Those of you taking risks (yes, you in masks, as well), please, please weigh them against...

    ...experiences like mine. It's not "well, a tiny fraction of people die, and most people are better in two weeks." This is simply untrue. So many of us have suffered for months. Ask yourselves: is going to get a coffee, or getting a haircut worth being debilitatingly ill...

    ...for 4+ months of your life? Or, is it worth condemning someone else to this experience? Tending to your critical needs (grocery, medicine) is a necessary risk. So is fighting for the lives of others (protesting, organizing). But I promise you, the risk is too great...

    ...for a birthday party. Or a fucking bar night. Or visiting your fav restaurant. Good lord, I cannot stress this enough. Please. Wear a mask. Stay home as much as you can. And know that the recovery times associated with this illness are wrong. That people are suffering.

    I presume we're going to see more data about this as time evolves, but we might take years to get a clear picture.

    Terrifying symptoms. Remember that "Recovered" is an arbitrary distinction. The lasting impacts go beyond the initial infection.

    I'm particularly freaked out, personally, because periodic extreme tachycardia is already something that's landed me in the ER, and got me wearing a heart monitor for 30 days without interruption. That's not something I want to make any worse than it already is.

    This is what people are going to have to "Live with". Perhaps for the rest of their lives.

    First of all, I am not a doctor and my post is pure speculation connecting dots from the quoted Twitter thread and this link about how COVID19 forces infected cells to grow filopodia.

    https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-and-cancer-hijack-the-same-parts-in-human-cells-to-spread-and-our-team-identified-existing-cancer-drugs-that-could-fight-covid-19-139955

    This makes me think that the long term sufferers' symptoms are the physical manifestations of cells becoming interconnected in ways they never should be. There may not be any cure or getting better in anyway without all of those cells dying and being replaced in the body, but the filopodia make getting rid of those cells impossible, or at the very least extremely difficult for the body to manage.

    Veevee on
    Ticaldfjam
  • TicaldfjamTicaldfjam Everett, WARegistered User regular
    edited July 4
    Veevee wrote: »
    Firsthand account from someone who has "recovered" from Covid about how the disease has changed her life - and how she's not the only one:


    Hey, so, I got Covid19 in March. I’ve been sick for over 3 months w/ severe respiratory, cardiovascular & neurological symptoms. I still have a fever. I’ve been incapacitated for nearly a season of my life. It's not enough to not die. You don’t want to live thru this, either.

    I am not unique. Support groups have sprung up all over the internet because medical science doesn’t know what to do with the hundreds of thousands of Covid patients who don’t get better in the (utter and complete bullshit, and they know it) CDC guidelines of 2-6 weeks.

    The CDC is also refusing to add widely-reported, terrifying symptoms to their lists. So here’s a grab bag of what patients like me are experiencing, so you know: Extreme tachycardia. My heart rate was once 160 while I was sleeping. Chest pain, like someone’s sitting…

    ...on your sternum. Back and rib pain like someone’s taken a baseball bat to your torso. Fatigue like you’ve never felt before in your life. Fatigue like your body is shutting off. Fatigue so bad that it would often make me cry because I thought it might mean I was dying.

    GI problems, diarrhea to severe acid reflux. I had diarrhea every day for two+ months. Unbearable nausea. Also: Inexplicable rashes. For me, little broken blood vessels all over my body. For many of us, a constant shortness of breath that doctors can’t find an explanation for.

    Neurological symptoms. I had delirium & hallucinations. Many report tingling all over their body, an internal “buzzing” or “vibrating.” Also, insomnia & chronic hypnic bodily jerks. One symptom so weird that I thought it was just me, but it turns out it’s so many of us…

    was waking up in the middle of the night, gasping for breath. I also experienced tremors while trying to sleep, like someone was shaking the bed. Also: many report a “hot head.” Mine literally radiated heat, despite not hitting a high fever. Then, there’s the confusion…

    The “brain fog.” I couldn’t read or make sense of text at times. I couldn’t remember words. I’d stare at my partner at a loss for what I needed to communicate, or how to do it. Also: thickening of the blood, clotting. Weird, inexplicable changes to the menstrual cycle.

    Everyone knows the lung stuff already, so I won't elaborate. But it doesn’t just go away. I wake up every morning & when I breathe in, it feels like someone is crinkling plastic in my chest. And these are just the symptoms. I’m not even touching the physical damage done…

    ...to patients’ organs and bodily systems. I’m also not touching the mental component of this, which is compounded by the very virtue of not knowing if it’ll eventually kill you. But long-term covid sufferers all report the same thing: that the recovery is non-linear.

    You’ll wake up feeling better and assume, like would be true for the flu or a cold, you’re on the mend. But then... you get worse. & then you're feeling better again! & then you’re bedridden, worse than before. It makes no sense. You start to think you’re losing your grip...

    or maybe it’s all in your head. It isn’t. Thousands & thousands are experiencing these cycles. At some point, I realized that this was causing a trauma response in my body, which only seemed to worsen recovery. And I’m someone who’s learned over the years how to tend to...

    their mental health needs pretty well. This experience is a whole other ball game. It is terrifying what it did to my mind. There are parts of the experience I am well aware I've blocked out in order to function, and times my partner has to remind me of things I've shut out.

    There's so much we don't know — including if these physical damages are permanent or, for some, will lead to chronic illness. But one thing we do know is this isn’t the fucking flu. Those of you taking risks (yes, you in masks, as well), please, please weigh them against...

    ...experiences like mine. It's not "well, a tiny fraction of people die, and most people are better in two weeks." This is simply untrue. So many of us have suffered for months. Ask yourselves: is going to get a coffee, or getting a haircut worth being debilitatingly ill...

    ...for 4+ months of your life? Or, is it worth condemning someone else to this experience? Tending to your critical needs (grocery, medicine) is a necessary risk. So is fighting for the lives of others (protesting, organizing). But I promise you, the risk is too great...

    ...for a birthday party. Or a fucking bar night. Or visiting your fav restaurant. Good lord, I cannot stress this enough. Please. Wear a mask. Stay home as much as you can. And know that the recovery times associated with this illness are wrong. That people are suffering.

    I presume we're going to see more data about this as time evolves, but we might take years to get a clear picture.

    Terrifying symptoms. Remember that "Recovered" is an arbitrary distinction. The lasting impacts go beyond the initial infection.

    I'm particularly freaked out, personally, because periodic extreme tachycardia is already something that's landed me in the ER, and got me wearing a heart monitor for 30 days without interruption. That's not something I want to make any worse than it already is.

    This is what people are going to have to "Live with". Perhaps for the rest of their lives.

    First of all, I am not a doctor and my post is pure speculation connecting dots from the quoted Twitter thread and this link about how COVID19 forces infected cells to grow filopodia.

    https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-and-cancer-hijack-the-same-parts-in-human-cells-to-spread-and-our-team-identified-existing-cancer-drugs-that-could-fight-covid-19-139955

    This makes me think that the long term sufferers' symptoms are the physical manifestations of cells becoming interconnected in ways they never should be. There may not be any cure or getting better in anyway without all of those cells dying and being replaced in the body, but the filopodia make getting rid of those cells impossible, or at the very least extremely difficult for the body to manage.

    JFC, The secondary symptoms of COVID-19 , sound similar to stages of lung cancer ( since similar cells, receptors are infected.)

    Ticaldfjam on
    Veevee
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    From updates thread:
    Jragghen wrote: »

    So much for "it's going to disappear on its own."

    To be fair, at this point there isn't exactly a lot the federal government can actually do given how widely this shit has spread and how many people are refusing to use common sense for dealing with it.

    Like, if trump had taken put forthe the most basic effort to corral this thing back in january or early febuary you could have probably been ahead of europe at this point.

    There's a tonne of stuff they could still do! Like, by the classic "strategy" of managing viral spread, this is the exact time when you turn on a hard lockdown to make sure you have plenty of hospital capacity and that as few as possible people get infected. Like, in that classic "flattening the curve picture from 4 months ago? You can do that right now. If a hard lockdown cuts r0 to 0.8 then it still can work right now. And with our huge testing capacity we could do much better to protect essential workers.

    Like, the UK outbreak at its peak was bigger than ours in terms of per capacita deaths (which is the better measure of size). They stopped it. We could too.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Yes, but... they won't.

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  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Yes, but... they won't.

    Well, this is always what it comes down to. They can always do all kinds of things. They won't. We sit here and discuss nearly 24/7 what they could and should do, but they won't.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    From updates thread:
    Jragghen wrote: »

    So much for "it's going to disappear on its own."

    To be fair, at this point there isn't exactly a lot the federal government can actually do given how widely this shit has spread and how many people are refusing to use common sense for dealing with it.

    Like, if trump had taken put forthe the most basic effort to corral this thing back in january or early febuary you could have probably been ahead of europe at this point.

    There is a huge amount the federal government can do, and a lot of those people are refusing common sense because they don't have the resources to do otherwise. For example: invoke the fucking defense production mask so everyone has access to valveless N95s instead of cloth masks (worn improperly they'd be at least as good and worn properly another large decrease in transmission). Provide cash support to make sure businesses that aren't essential stay closed. Stop lying about the situation.

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  • OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    I've seen a number of anecdotal stories about these "long haulers" who are sick for months, but have not seen any studies or hard data about the prevalence of that happening. I'm assuming since there hasn't been a lot in the news about it, it must not have been studied and / or be quite rare. Anyone have any hard info about it?

  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited July 4
    Veevee wrote: »
    Firsthand account from someone who has "recovered" from Covid about how the disease has changed her life - and how she's not the only one:


    Hey, so, I got Covid19 in March. I’ve been sick for over 3 months w/ severe respiratory, cardiovascular & neurological symptoms. I still have a fever. I’ve been incapacitated for nearly a season of my life. It's not enough to not die. You don’t want to live thru this, either.

    I am not unique. Support groups have sprung up all over the internet because medical science doesn’t know what to do with the hundreds of thousands of Covid patients who don’t get better in the (utter and complete bullshit, and they know it) CDC guidelines of 2-6 weeks.

    The CDC is also refusing to add widely-reported, terrifying symptoms to their lists. So here’s a grab bag of what patients like me are experiencing, so you know: Extreme tachycardia. My heart rate was once 160 while I was sleeping. Chest pain, like someone’s sitting…

    ...on your sternum. Back and rib pain like someone’s taken a baseball bat to your torso. Fatigue like you’ve never felt before in your life. Fatigue like your body is shutting off. Fatigue so bad that it would often make me cry because I thought it might mean I was dying.

    GI problems, diarrhea to severe acid reflux. I had diarrhea every day for two+ months. Unbearable nausea. Also: Inexplicable rashes. For me, little broken blood vessels all over my body. For many of us, a constant shortness of breath that doctors can’t find an explanation for.

    Neurological symptoms. I had delirium & hallucinations. Many report tingling all over their body, an internal “buzzing” or “vibrating.” Also, insomnia & chronic hypnic bodily jerks. One symptom so weird that I thought it was just me, but it turns out it’s so many of us…

    was waking up in the middle of the night, gasping for breath. I also experienced tremors while trying to sleep, like someone was shaking the bed. Also: many report a “hot head.” Mine literally radiated heat, despite not hitting a high fever. Then, there’s the confusion…

    The “brain fog.” I couldn’t read or make sense of text at times. I couldn’t remember words. I’d stare at my partner at a loss for what I needed to communicate, or how to do it. Also: thickening of the blood, clotting. Weird, inexplicable changes to the menstrual cycle.

    Everyone knows the lung stuff already, so I won't elaborate. But it doesn’t just go away. I wake up every morning & when I breathe in, it feels like someone is crinkling plastic in my chest. And these are just the symptoms. I’m not even touching the physical damage done…

    ...to patients’ organs and bodily systems. I’m also not touching the mental component of this, which is compounded by the very virtue of not knowing if it’ll eventually kill you. But long-term covid sufferers all report the same thing: that the recovery is non-linear.

    You’ll wake up feeling better and assume, like would be true for the flu or a cold, you’re on the mend. But then... you get worse. & then you're feeling better again! & then you’re bedridden, worse than before. It makes no sense. You start to think you’re losing your grip...

    or maybe it’s all in your head. It isn’t. Thousands & thousands are experiencing these cycles. At some point, I realized that this was causing a trauma response in my body, which only seemed to worsen recovery. And I’m someone who’s learned over the years how to tend to...

    their mental health needs pretty well. This experience is a whole other ball game. It is terrifying what it did to my mind. There are parts of the experience I am well aware I've blocked out in order to function, and times my partner has to remind me of things I've shut out.

    There's so much we don't know — including if these physical damages are permanent or, for some, will lead to chronic illness. But one thing we do know is this isn’t the fucking flu. Those of you taking risks (yes, you in masks, as well), please, please weigh them against...

    ...experiences like mine. It's not "well, a tiny fraction of people die, and most people are better in two weeks." This is simply untrue. So many of us have suffered for months. Ask yourselves: is going to get a coffee, or getting a haircut worth being debilitatingly ill...

    ...for 4+ months of your life? Or, is it worth condemning someone else to this experience? Tending to your critical needs (grocery, medicine) is a necessary risk. So is fighting for the lives of others (protesting, organizing). But I promise you, the risk is too great...

    ...for a birthday party. Or a fucking bar night. Or visiting your fav restaurant. Good lord, I cannot stress this enough. Please. Wear a mask. Stay home as much as you can. And know that the recovery times associated with this illness are wrong. That people are suffering.

    I presume we're going to see more data about this as time evolves, but we might take years to get a clear picture.

    Terrifying symptoms. Remember that "Recovered" is an arbitrary distinction. The lasting impacts go beyond the initial infection.

    I'm particularly freaked out, personally, because periodic extreme tachycardia is already something that's landed me in the ER, and got me wearing a heart monitor for 30 days without interruption. That's not something I want to make any worse than it already is.

    This is what people are going to have to "Live with". Perhaps for the rest of their lives.

    First of all, I am not a doctor and my post is pure speculation connecting dots from the quoted Twitter thread and this link about how COVID19 forces infected cells to grow filopodia.

    https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-and-cancer-hijack-the-same-parts-in-human-cells-to-spread-and-our-team-identified-existing-cancer-drugs-that-could-fight-covid-19-139955

    This makes me think that the long term sufferers' symptoms are the physical manifestations of cells becoming interconnected in ways they never should be. There may not be any cure or getting better in anyway without all of those cells dying and being replaced in the body, but the filopodia make getting rid of those cells impossible, or at the very least extremely difficult for the body to manage.

    It is super interesting but it looks like they haven't done anything outside of cultures yet. It's possible I missed where they've done these studies on a living thing, but it so far it all seems to be ex vivo, which exists in the realm of "interesting factoid."

    ceres on
    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »

    To be fair, there’s one guy almost wearing a mask.

    steam_sig.png

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Pennsylvania has a quarantine for people traveling from 14 states, effective today. So I actually couldn't have attended the funeral even if I'd planned on it.

    My uncle from NC was probably going to drive up and now he can't, too.

  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    OremLK wrote: »
    I've seen a number of anecdotal stories about these "long haulers" who are sick for months, but have not seen any studies or hard data about the prevalence of that happening. I'm assuming since there hasn't been a lot in the news about it, it must not have been studied and / or be quite rare. Anyone have any hard info about it?

    There's not a lot of hard data on this that I've been able to find, but there are currently support groups for these long-term symptoms that have a decent number of members.

    Vox wrote an article about this one in particular.
    When I first became sick with Covid-19 on March 13, my symptoms matched the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) description of the disease. I was not surprised to test positive when I was admitted to Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City on March 17.

    In the weeks that followed, however, my illness began to morph. I developed a host of new symptoms, from severe sinus pain to rashes and hives, that weren’t yet being widely acknowledged. My recovery dragged on for more than seven weeks. In the absence of public health information that could explain or validate my experience, I connected with other Covid-19 survivors and started the Body Politic Covid-19 support group for people living with the virus.

    As the group grew to thousands of members from around the world, it became clear that others were desperate for information to understand their experience. In the absence of comprehensive, up-to-date information from health authorities, the support group has allowed people living with or recovering from the disease to discuss lesser-known symptoms, crowdsource best practices from health authorities around the world, and arm against medical bias that affects marginalized populations.

    I think it's unfortunately still way too early to have any definitive data for long term recovery prospects. Hell, we're still trying to understand short term infection data at this point.

    The medical system is so crushed with the immediate issues related to COVID, I don't think there's much room for the long-term symptoms to take up many resources.

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  • HenroidHenroid Seize the Memes Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »

    To be fair, there’s one guy almost wearing a mask.
    After reading this post I took a closer look at the photos to make sure the adult diaper guy wasn't in the crowd again.

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »

    To be fair, there’s one guy almost wearing a mask.
    After reading this post I took a closer look at the photos to make sure the adult diaper guy wasn't in the crowd again.

    Well, the mask is under the dude’s chin. I suppose that’s the moral equivalent to shitting in a diaper that’s just below your ankles.

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  • GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    From updates thread:
    Jragghen wrote: »

    So much for "it's going to disappear on its own."

    Papa Nurgle called in a favor.

    The only thing this asshole knows how to do is quit when the going gets tough.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited July 4
    From updates thread:
    Jragghen wrote: »

    So much for "it's going to disappear on its own."

    It's all just another way to pretend it's over. "It's gonna go away" has become "It's gonna stay here but it'll be fine anyway". The important thing is that Trump wants it to not be an issue now.

    shryke on
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  • Magus`Magus` Registered User regular
    My job wants me back in the field to do something that can be done by teleconference. It's unsafe and a huge waste of time.

    I only hope they backpedal soon.

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  • rndmherorndmhero Registered User regular
    OremLK wrote: »
    I've seen a number of anecdotal stories about these "long haulers" who are sick for months, but have not seen any studies or hard data about the prevalence of that happening. I'm assuming since there hasn't been a lot in the news about it, it must not have been studied and / or be quite rare. Anyone have any hard info about it?

    There's not a lot of hard data on this that I've been able to find, but there are currently support groups for these long-term symptoms that have a decent number of members.

    Vox wrote an article about this one in particular.
    When I first became sick with Covid-19 on March 13, my symptoms matched the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) description of the disease. I was not surprised to test positive when I was admitted to Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City on March 17.

    In the weeks that followed, however, my illness began to morph. I developed a host of new symptoms, from severe sinus pain to rashes and hives, that weren’t yet being widely acknowledged. My recovery dragged on for more than seven weeks. In the absence of public health information that could explain or validate my experience, I connected with other Covid-19 survivors and started the Body Politic Covid-19 support group for people living with the virus.

    As the group grew to thousands of members from around the world, it became clear that others were desperate for information to understand their experience. In the absence of comprehensive, up-to-date information from health authorities, the support group has allowed people living with or recovering from the disease to discuss lesser-known symptoms, crowdsource best practices from health authorities around the world, and arm against medical bias that affects marginalized populations.

    I think it's unfortunately still way too early to have any definitive data for long term recovery prospects. Hell, we're still trying to understand short term infection data at this point.

    The medical system is so crushed with the immediate issues related to COVID, I don't think there's much room for the long-term symptoms to take up many resources.

    Crowdsourcing non-specific symptoms to internet support groups is also a terrible idea. It's how you get weird shit like the far-reaching manifestations of "chronic lyme disease" that have little if any connection to a medical basis. Recovery from any severe illness can be a long, slow, debilitating process of overcoming deconditioning and healing from associated injuries. There are tons of secondary effects from any life-threatening illness, and definite subsets of disease-specific sequelae that will take time to work out methodically. But when you have any condition affecting millions of people at a time, huge proportions of them are also going to continue to experience other, unrelated ailments. Literally millions of people will recover from COVID only experience excruciating, temporarily-debilitating toe stubbing in the following months. Doesn't mean COVID leads to a statistically significant increase in risk of toe stubbing. But you will absolutely have enough overlapping incidence to fill an online support group of COVID/toe-stub sufferers.

  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    I got a haircut today, at a place taking a long list of precautions to protect their staff and customers. (Both the last thread and my retired-physician mom thought it was reasonable.) I had to ask for a new mask at one point because a bunch of hair clippings from my bangs fell directly into the one I was wearing; but other than that it went fine. The stylist and I both laughed.

    Tomorrow I'm driving to my parents' place for the afternoon to visit and pick up half a box of Georgia peaches. My parents have been taking this seriously, and we'll be hanging out socially distanced on the screen porch. Even if I managed to pick up the virus today, odds of my being contagious tomorrow are slim.

    I'm still anxious about rolling a nat 1 and having them catch it from me, but OTOH we're all staying home and wearing masks when we go out and I haven't seen my dad since January.

    Jedoc wrote: »
    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
  • m!ttensm!ttens Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »

    To be fair, there’s one guy almost wearing a mask.
    After reading this post I took a closer look at the photos to make sure the adult diaper guy wasn't in the crowd again.

    Well, the mask is under the dude’s chin. I suppose that’s the moral equivalent to shitting in a diaper that’s just below your ankles.

    In the 4 photos, I spotted 5 total masks, three being worn correctly, and the other two doing an excellent job of protecting the wearer's chin.

  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    rndmhero wrote: »
    OremLK wrote: »
    I've seen a number of anecdotal stories about these "long haulers" who are sick for months, but have not seen any studies or hard data about the prevalence of that happening. I'm assuming since there hasn't been a lot in the news about it, it must not have been studied and / or be quite rare. Anyone have any hard info about it?

    There's not a lot of hard data on this that I've been able to find, but there are currently support groups for these long-term symptoms that have a decent number of members.

    Vox wrote an article about this one in particular.
    When I first became sick with Covid-19 on March 13, my symptoms matched the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) description of the disease. I was not surprised to test positive when I was admitted to Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City on March 17.

    In the weeks that followed, however, my illness began to morph. I developed a host of new symptoms, from severe sinus pain to rashes and hives, that weren’t yet being widely acknowledged. My recovery dragged on for more than seven weeks. In the absence of public health information that could explain or validate my experience, I connected with other Covid-19 survivors and started the Body Politic Covid-19 support group for people living with the virus.

    As the group grew to thousands of members from around the world, it became clear that others were desperate for information to understand their experience. In the absence of comprehensive, up-to-date information from health authorities, the support group has allowed people living with or recovering from the disease to discuss lesser-known symptoms, crowdsource best practices from health authorities around the world, and arm against medical bias that affects marginalized populations.

    I think it's unfortunately still way too early to have any definitive data for long term recovery prospects. Hell, we're still trying to understand short term infection data at this point.

    The medical system is so crushed with the immediate issues related to COVID, I don't think there's much room for the long-term symptoms to take up many resources.

    Crowdsourcing non-specific symptoms to internet support groups is also a terrible idea. It's how you get weird shit like the far-reaching manifestations of "chronic lyme disease" that have little if any connection to a medical basis. Recovery from any severe illness can be a long, slow, debilitating process of overcoming deconditioning and healing from associated injuries. There are tons of secondary effects from any life-threatening illness, and definite subsets of disease-specific sequelae that will take time to work out methodically. But when you have any condition affecting millions of people at a time, huge proportions of them are also going to continue to experience other, unrelated ailments. Literally millions of people will recover from COVID only experience excruciating, temporarily-debilitating toe stubbing in the following months. Doesn't mean COVID leads to a statistically significant increase in risk of toe stubbing. But you will absolutely have enough overlapping incidence to fill an online support group of COVID/toe-stub sufferers.

    ...Chronic Lyme disease isn't real? O_O

    Seriously, I grew up in southeastern PA. If you go outside to play in tall grass or around trees you have to check for ticks when you get inside. I knew a few people who found them after a day of play, but none actually contracted the disease at the time. As an adult I met a number of people who said they had chronic Lyme disease. I never looked it up because.. I don't know, I wasn't interested, I guess. I just assumed it was something that could happen. I have had this idea for like 18 years.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    edited July 4
    Gyral wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    Has he said anything about Cain? I'm guessing he won't even if the guy dies. Barely knew him, and all that.
    Another coffee pizza boy.

    In my head Cain and Trump aren't that close ever since Cain saw him reach for a fork and knife for his pizza.

    Anyway of course Trump isn't going to say anything. He's not going to say anything about Jr's gf, who just tested positive.

    Ivanka at least is saying wear a mask in public, but I don't see what that accomplishes at this point

    Tox on
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Navarro keeps on talking out of his butt.



    Or as Dale puts it,

    White House Glossary

    “Everybody”: Nobody or very few people
    Quote Tweet
    There were, of course, tons of reports saying nobody should assume that

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    From updates thread:
    Jragghen wrote: »

    So much for "it's going to disappear on its own."

    To be fair, at this point there isn't exactly a lot the federal government can actually do given how widely this shit has spread and how many people are refusing to use common sense for dealing with it.

    Like, if trump had taken put forthe the most basic effort to corral this thing back in january or early febuary you could have probably been ahead of europe at this point.

    Bullshit. If the federal government stepped in now the suffering and death could still be minimized. No, we won't have it under in control in a month, and there will still be a few hundred thousand dead, but we could conceivably get things back under control in 3-6 months.

    But that's not going to happen because Trump is an incompetent ass that doesn't want to put on a mask or deal with hard things.

    The issue here is that trump allowed this shit to get completely out of fucking hand and even if he took the incredibly minimal steps of telling people to wash their hands or wear masks you have three *massive* hurdles to clear.

    1. There is zero possibility of containing this shit in the forseeable future.
    2. Trump turned wearing a mask into a political issue and now his hordes are citing everything from constitutional rights to beliefs that it will make them sicker to borderline blasphemous interpretations of the bible. And since this plethora of idiots represents a not inconsiderable portion of the population...
    3. Tying neatly into 2, you have the anti-vaxers, which is (due to trumps utter incompetence) an even bigger issue then it would normally be since there is real reason to question something that this administration backed given how trump has extolled the virtues of a drug that has no real value with the slogan of "what have you got to lose", sunlight and injecting bleach.

    Beyond all of that, I'm not sure that the federal government can actually afford to do the things that need to be done to credibly combat this; a half a trillion dollars was thrown out to help "small" businesses and (owing to the fact that we can't really confirm where all of it went) we can't actually tell if it had any effect on preventing the economy from getting worse or keeping people off the street.

    Like don't get me wrong: I fucking hate the way that trump has handled this and his complacency in the face of the worst viral outbreak in a century should demolish any credibility he ever had as a leader and that his tombstone should have a list of the names of everyone who died of this virus for the past 4 months.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
    JaysonFourGnome-Interruptus
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    ceres wrote: »
    rndmhero wrote: »
    OremLK wrote: »
    I've seen a number of anecdotal stories about these "long haulers" who are sick for months, but have not seen any studies or hard data about the prevalence of that happening. I'm assuming since there hasn't been a lot in the news about it, it must not have been studied and / or be quite rare. Anyone have any hard info about it?

    There's not a lot of hard data on this that I've been able to find, but there are currently support groups for these long-term symptoms that have a decent number of members.

    Vox wrote an article about this one in particular.
    When I first became sick with Covid-19 on March 13, my symptoms matched the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) description of the disease. I was not surprised to test positive when I was admitted to Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City on March 17.

    In the weeks that followed, however, my illness began to morph. I developed a host of new symptoms, from severe sinus pain to rashes and hives, that weren’t yet being widely acknowledged. My recovery dragged on for more than seven weeks. In the absence of public health information that could explain or validate my experience, I connected with other Covid-19 survivors and started the Body Politic Covid-19 support group for people living with the virus.

    As the group grew to thousands of members from around the world, it became clear that others were desperate for information to understand their experience. In the absence of comprehensive, up-to-date information from health authorities, the support group has allowed people living with or recovering from the disease to discuss lesser-known symptoms, crowdsource best practices from health authorities around the world, and arm against medical bias that affects marginalized populations.

    I think it's unfortunately still way too early to have any definitive data for long term recovery prospects. Hell, we're still trying to understand short term infection data at this point.

    The medical system is so crushed with the immediate issues related to COVID, I don't think there's much room for the long-term symptoms to take up many resources.

    Crowdsourcing non-specific symptoms to internet support groups is also a terrible idea. It's how you get weird shit like the far-reaching manifestations of "chronic lyme disease" that have little if any connection to a medical basis. Recovery from any severe illness can be a long, slow, debilitating process of overcoming deconditioning and healing from associated injuries. There are tons of secondary effects from any life-threatening illness, and definite subsets of disease-specific sequelae that will take time to work out methodically. But when you have any condition affecting millions of people at a time, huge proportions of them are also going to continue to experience other, unrelated ailments. Literally millions of people will recover from COVID only experience excruciating, temporarily-debilitating toe stubbing in the following months. Doesn't mean COVID leads to a statistically significant increase in risk of toe stubbing. But you will absolutely have enough overlapping incidence to fill an online support group of COVID/toe-stub sufferers.

    ...Chronic Lyme disease isn't real? O_O

    Seriously, I grew up in southeastern PA. If you go outside to play in tall grass or around trees you have to check for ticks when you get inside. I knew a few people who found them after a day of play, but none actually contracted the disease at the time. As an adult I met a number of people who said they had chronic Lyme disease. I never looked it up because.. I don't know, I wasn't interested, I guess. I just assumed it was something that could happen. I have had this idea for like 18 years.

    Chronic Lyme disease is a thing which exists, but, its nowhere near as widespread as the people who say they have chronic lyme disease. The disease can hang around and flare up again, but, in the people where it does the disease can be detected again.

    Its like say, gluten intolerance. Many people have gluten intolerance. Its a real and horrible thing. But, far more people say they have it than have it to the point where people who have the real illness can't trust anyone who says their food is gluten free because that doesn't actually mean enough to people with the diagnosable condition (like, eating a gram or two of wheat for them can cause the effects for a month)

    Anecdotes are anecdotes unfortunately. We are just starting to learn about this virus and how it affects the most common patients, let alone some people who may have outlier symptoms.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    "Weaponized" is a pretty fucked up word choice there.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
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  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Navarro keeps on talking out of his butt.



    Or as Dale puts it,

    White House Glossary

    “Everybody”: Nobody or very few people
    Quote Tweet
    There were, of course, tons of reports saying nobody should assume that

    It will never stop being infuriating that these fuckin idiots get to be in charge of fuckin everything.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited July 4
    "Weaponized" is a pretty fucked up word choice there.

    It's absolutely deliberate.
    Which is also what they're trying to imply, that China did this to us on purpose. Blame them!

    Commander Zoom on
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  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    rndmhero wrote: »
    OremLK wrote: »
    I've seen a number of anecdotal stories about these "long haulers" who are sick for months, but have not seen any studies or hard data about the prevalence of that happening. I'm assuming since there hasn't been a lot in the news about it, it must not have been studied and / or be quite rare. Anyone have any hard info about it?

    There's not a lot of hard data on this that I've been able to find, but there are currently support groups for these long-term symptoms that have a decent number of members.

    Vox wrote an article about this one in particular.
    When I first became sick with Covid-19 on March 13, my symptoms matched the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) description of the disease. I was not surprised to test positive when I was admitted to Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City on March 17.

    In the weeks that followed, however, my illness began to morph. I developed a host of new symptoms, from severe sinus pain to rashes and hives, that weren’t yet being widely acknowledged. My recovery dragged on for more than seven weeks. In the absence of public health information that could explain or validate my experience, I connected with other Covid-19 survivors and started the Body Politic Covid-19 support group for people living with the virus.

    As the group grew to thousands of members from around the world, it became clear that others were desperate for information to understand their experience. In the absence of comprehensive, up-to-date information from health authorities, the support group has allowed people living with or recovering from the disease to discuss lesser-known symptoms, crowdsource best practices from health authorities around the world, and arm against medical bias that affects marginalized populations.

    I think it's unfortunately still way too early to have any definitive data for long term recovery prospects. Hell, we're still trying to understand short term infection data at this point.

    The medical system is so crushed with the immediate issues related to COVID, I don't think there's much room for the long-term symptoms to take up many resources.

    Crowdsourcing non-specific symptoms to internet support groups is also a terrible idea. It's how you get weird shit like the far-reaching manifestations of "chronic lyme disease" that have little if any connection to a medical basis. Recovery from any severe illness can be a long, slow, debilitating process of overcoming deconditioning and healing from associated injuries. There are tons of secondary effects from any life-threatening illness, and definite subsets of disease-specific sequelae that will take time to work out methodically. But when you have any condition affecting millions of people at a time, huge proportions of them are also going to continue to experience other, unrelated ailments. Literally millions of people will recover from COVID only experience excruciating, temporarily-debilitating toe stubbing in the following months. Doesn't mean COVID leads to a statistically significant increase in risk of toe stubbing. But you will absolutely have enough overlapping incidence to fill an online support group of COVID/toe-stub sufferers.

    ...Chronic Lyme disease isn't real? O_O

    Seriously, I grew up in southeastern PA. If you go outside to play in tall grass or around trees you have to check for ticks when you get inside. I knew a few people who found them after a day of play, but none actually contracted the disease at the time. As an adult I met a number of people who said they had chronic Lyme disease. I never looked it up because.. I don't know, I wasn't interested, I guess. I just assumed it was something that could happen. I have had this idea for like 18 years.

    Chronic Lyme disease is a thing which exists, but, its nowhere near as widespread as the people who say they have chronic lyme disease. The disease can hang around and flare up again, but, in the people where it does the disease can be detected again.

    Its like say, gluten intolerance. Many people have gluten intolerance. Its a real and horrible thing. But, far more people say they have it than have it to the point where people who have the real illness can't trust anyone who says their food is gluten free because that doesn't actually mean enough to people with the diagnosable condition (like, eating a gram or two of wheat for them can cause the effects for a month)

    Anecdotes are anecdotes unfortunately. We are just starting to learn about this virus and how it affects the most common patients, let alone some people who may have outlier symptoms.

    Re: gluten intolerance: people claiming they have it who don't are obnoxious, yeah. But honestly? If I'm paying someone for food and I say I can't eat X, they should either make sure there's no trace of X in my food, or, if they can't, say so. It doesn't matter if 99 people go, "Oh, well, it's not that big a deal." You still take the 100th person seriously.

    Jedoc wrote: »
    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
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