Liberals got smoked hard in NS, looks like. Right now it's just a question of whether it's a PC minority or a PC majority.
That said, given how all over the place the parties were in terms of positions - Liberals to PCs shouldn't feel like a potential move left, and yet - I have no idea what if anything this says about the electorate's own politics.
Well poop.
Though, agreed that with how the provincial parties currently are in NS, this is more of a lateral move than a step back in many ways.
That dipshit who got booted from the PCs likely getting re-elected is definitely a real kick in the crotch. Normally I'd try to be more diplomatic, but seeing as it's not even blind party loyalty, and her entire defining trait is being a shitty antivaxxer, fuck every single idiot hick who voted for her. I have zero patience for it at this point.
Well poop.
Though, agreed that with how the provincial parties currently are in NS, this is more of a lateral move than a step back in many ways.
That dipshit who got booted from the PCs likely getting re-elected is definitely a real kick in the crotch. Normally I'd try to be more diplomatic, but seeing as it's not even blind party loyalty, and her entire defining trait is being a shitty antivaxxer, fuck every single idiot hick who voted for her.
Hey now, that's my home riding and... you're absolutely right. It's fucking embarrassing. Really disgraceful stuff.
Well poop.
Though, agreed that with how the provincial parties currently are in NS, this is more of a lateral move than a step back in many ways.
That dipshit who got booted from the PCs likely getting re-elected is definitely a real kick in the crotch. Normally I'd try to be more diplomatic, but seeing as it's not even blind party loyalty, and her entire defining trait is being a shitty antivaxxer, fuck every single idiot hick who voted for her.
Hey now, that's my home riding and... you're absolutely right. It's fucking embarrassing. Really disgraceful stuff.
To clarify (and I know you know this. I'm just clarifying for the sake of it), everyone who didn't vote for her gets a pass.
Ah yes, the Canadian Recovery Plan. I expect lots of Canadians will feel free to give them an A for this policy proposal! Probably between the R and the P.
No seriously, that the Cons are still running despite this CRP policy must be a flex on the part of the rich to remind us poor plebs that they can do whatever they want, right? The Cons still existing is a bet between rich folks to see who can get away with the most outrageous shit, right?
I guess, silver lining, the Atlantica Party (right wing populists) continue their tradition of barely existing. I'll take what I can get at this point.
It also looks like the NDP will increase their seat count, so there's that.
I will say, despite the talking head commentary that will no doubt happen, I don't think this says much about how NS will go federally. Houston literally had campaign ads saying, "Even if you aren't voting Conservative federally, you can still vote PC".
Liberals got smoked hard in NS, looks like. Right now it's just a question of whether it's a PC minority or a PC majority.
That said, given how all over the place the parties were in terms of positions - Liberals to PCs shouldn't feel like a potential move left, and yet - I have no idea what if anything this says about the electorate's own politics.
Ugh, it's not called yet, but my riding, a race between the NDP and PC, is probably going to go PC, literally because a bunch of people think the candidate is a swell fella. I literally know people whose personal opinions and politics are much more NDP than PC, but 'Jee willickers, he sure is a nice guy', so they voted for him, and as such voted PC.
Liberals got smoked hard in NS, looks like. Right now it's just a question of whether it's a PC minority or a PC majority.
That said, given how all over the place the parties were in terms of positions - Liberals to PCs shouldn't feel like a potential move left, and yet - I have no idea what if anything this says about the electorate's own politics.
This province is weird.
Was this just a "throw the bums out" election?
Not even that, really. Rankin wasn't unpopular. I'm ... honestly not sure what the heck just happened.
Edit: I will say, unless there are a whole bunch of votes in the remaining polls (and some of them may be early/mail-in, so it's not impossible), turnout seems to be down.
Edit Edit: It genuinely annoys me to no end, that at least some of it is probably literally those Houston ads about, "I'm going to fix healthcare!", without a single gat-dang detail, but a non-trivial number of people will go, "That guy likes healthcare? I like healthcare!". Democracy would be so much better if a significant chunk of the electorate weren't shockingly simple minded idiots.
Mail-in and early ballots were way up from the last election. I think I heard something like 175,000 this time around.
Honestly my main hope is that all the healthcare talk - the PCs aren't going to come close to their promises there, any more than anyone else in NS ever does - means we at least aren't going to see a government that's laser-focused on carrying on a years-long war on healthcare workers like the Liberals were. If they try to implement a tenth of the stuff they're talking about they'll probably be doing better than the incumbents.
Of course, they're PCs, so they'll be laser-focused on carrying on a years-long war on teachers instead, and I suspect we'll see mass renovictions starting next month..
Polls: "What's your biggest concern right now?"
NS Voters: "Housing affordability!"
Polls: "All right, the NDP have a plan for that, followed by the Liberals ..."
NS Voters: "PC Majority!"
Like, if it were a minority government, or if the NDP had won my riding, or if that antivax dipshit hadn't won their riding, or any other number of things, I'd be less miserable right now. But no, this just sucks all around.
If nothing else, I'm definitely motivated to do anything I can in my federal riding now. I guess I'm lucky I have something productive to channel my crushing disappointment into.
I have to say one of the most frustrating things in Canadian politics generally? At least at the provincial level?
The whole "the NDP are uniquely tainted because they were in office that one time decades ago and it wasn't great so they must never win again, as opposed to the traditional incumbent and other-incumbent, who must be held to much looser standards no matter how much they fucked up last year" thing. Stuff like people in Ontario saying they can't touch the party because of Rae Days when they weren't old enough to vote (or, sometimes, eat solid food) when he was premier.
NS is already doing that with with Dexter instead of Rae and I'm kind of bracing to hear the exact same thing come up in provincial elections in the 2030s.
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
Was out until a bit late last night so only checking in now, but I am embarassingly frustrated with our election results. I'm not surprised, but I'm so tired of people flip-flopping on two bad options, and we elected the one whose solution to the housing crisis basically doesn't exist. Can democracy exist without cities being held at gunpoint by rural ridings, or is that just a feature of North America?
Liberals got smoked hard in NS, looks like. Right now it's just a question of whether it's a PC minority or a PC majority.
That said, given how all over the place the parties were in terms of positions - Liberals to PCs shouldn't feel like a potential move left, and yet - I have no idea what if anything this says about the electorate's own politics.
This province is weird.
Was this just a "throw the bums out" election?
Not even that, really. Rankin wasn't unpopular. I'm ... honestly not sure what the heck just happened.
Edit: I will say, unless there are a whole bunch of votes in the remaining polls (and some of them may be early/mail-in, so it's not impossible), turnout seems to be down.
Edit Edit: It genuinely annoys me to no end, that at least some of it is probably literally those Houston ads about, "I'm going to fix healthcare!", without a single gat-dang detail, but a non-trivial number of people will go, "That guy likes healthcare? I like healthcare!". Democracy would be so much better if a significant chunk of the electorate weren't shockingly simple minded idiots.
IMO:
Rankin is uncharismatic, and wasn’t able to campaign effectively.
The biggest plus for the Liberals was their handling of the pandemic (here in Nova Scotia we typically have 0 to 10 new cases daily, almost all travel related), and that’s not necessarily going to be seen as a plus by the rural ridings.
You have plenty of people who will vote for someone else specifically because “well, they just had a few terms, you need to shake things up.”
The NDP is perceived as a party for the cities. So, Halifax and Sidney vote in a lot of NDP, but the rural districts reject them out of hand.
It’s really disappointing to me. The NDP had a fantastic platform, one that would have helped so many in the province in so many ways.
I will say this: provincially, the Liberals and Tories are basically the same party in different colours. So while things won’t get much better, at least they likely won’t get actively worse like the Federal conservatives would do.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
Was out until a bit late last night so only checking in now, but I am embarassingly frustrated with our election results. I'm not surprised, but I'm so tired of people flip-flopping on two bad options, and we elected the one whose solution to the housing crisis basically doesn't exist. Can democracy exist without cities being held at gunpoint by rural ridings, or is that just a feature of North America?
It's a feature of all democracies depending on population distribution. If your country or province or state or whatever has the cities outnumber the rural areas, it goes one way. If they don't, it goes the other.
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
Guys, I cannot take being in Halifax today. The election was one thing, but the unfolding of the park shelter evictions is just grinding me to a pulp. I'm morally outraged and simultaneously dying inside seeing all the responses from people who support the action. It's a critical failure of our local government, an absolutely awful look for the police involved in carrying it out, and yet somehow it's the group of young protestors that are getting all the shade.
Where the fuck did we go so wrong?
Guys, I cannot take being in Halifax today. The election was one thing, but the unfolding of the park shelter evictions is just grinding me to a pulp. I'm morally outraged and simultaneously dying inside seeing all the responses from people who support the action. It's a critical failure of our local government, an absolutely awful look for the police involved in carrying it out, and yet somehow it's the group of young protestors that are getting all the shade.
Where the fuck did we go so wrong?
Seeing the videos of the HUGE overstepping of authority the police were taking with the media was infuriating. Like, the media filming you removing a marginalized person's home while standing 15 feet away does not constitute "obstruction of justice".
I have to say one of the most frustrating things in Canadian politics generally? At least at the provincial level?
The whole "the NDP are uniquely tainted because they were in office that one time decades ago and it wasn't great so they must never win again, as opposed to the traditional incumbent and other-incumbent, who must be held to much looser standards no matter how much they fucked up last year" thing. Stuff like people in Ontario saying they can't touch the party because of Rae Days when they weren't old enough to vote (or, sometimes, eat solid food) when he was premier.
NS is already doing that with with Dexter instead of Rae and I'm kind of bracing to hear the exact same thing come up in provincial elections in the 2030s.
Not to mention the follow-up which is usually "Well, they don't have experienced ministers, they really wouldn't know how to run the government anyway."
They don't have experience running the country, you say! Gee, I wonder how someone could get that experience!
I have to say one of the most frustrating things in Canadian politics generally? At least at the provincial level?
The whole "the NDP are uniquely tainted because they were in office that one time decades ago and it wasn't great so they must never win again, as opposed to the traditional incumbent and other-incumbent, who must be held to much looser standards no matter how much they fucked up last year" thing. Stuff like people in Ontario saying they can't touch the party because of Rae Days when they weren't old enough to vote (or, sometimes, eat solid food) when he was premier.
NS is already doing that with with Dexter instead of Rae and I'm kind of bracing to hear the exact same thing come up in provincial elections in the 2030s.
Not to mention the follow-up which is usually "Well, they don't have experienced ministers, they really wouldn't know how to run the government anyway."
They don't have experience running the country, you say! Gee, I wonder how someone could get that experience!
On an entirely unrelated note, hey people, how about the next time we're in a minority situation we actually give Harper his nightmare scenario with a proper coalition?
(Gaaaaaaah the country's fear of coalition governments is surreal and I'm still pissed at how effectively the CPC fabricated that.)
Guys, I cannot take being in Halifax today. The election was one thing, but the unfolding of the park shelter evictions is just grinding me to a pulp. I'm morally outraged and simultaneously dying inside seeing all the responses from people who support the action. It's a critical failure of our local government, an absolutely awful look for the police involved in carrying it out, and yet somehow it's the group of young protestors that are getting all the shade.
Where the fuck did we go so wrong?
Homeless people sheltering in public spaces has never been popular.
Austin, for example, had the city council remove the ban on camping on public property and then had the city residents reinstate it via referendum.
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
Guys, I cannot take being in Halifax today. The election was one thing, but the unfolding of the park shelter evictions is just grinding me to a pulp. I'm morally outraged and simultaneously dying inside seeing all the responses from people who support the action. It's a critical failure of our local government, an absolutely awful look for the police involved in carrying it out, and yet somehow it's the group of young protestors that are getting all the shade.
Where the fuck did we go so wrong?
I guess your local government looked at my local government (Seattle) and took away exactly the wrong lessons from it. My condolences to your unhoused folks who are put out by this. Is there a fund to which we could perhaps contribute some money for them?
They do it here in town now and then, eventually the encampment is overrun with needles, stolen stuff and then catches on fire. The idea is to get them into proper housing, sleeping rough never really pans out.
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
Guys, I cannot take being in Halifax today. The election was one thing, but the unfolding of the park shelter evictions is just grinding me to a pulp. I'm morally outraged and simultaneously dying inside seeing all the responses from people who support the action. It's a critical failure of our local government, an absolutely awful look for the police involved in carrying it out, and yet somehow it's the group of young protestors that are getting all the shade.
Where the fuck did we go so wrong?
Homeless people sheltering in public spaces has never been popular.
Austin, for example, had the city council remove the ban on camping on public property and then had the city residents reinstate it via referendum.
Yeah, tech cities really hate homeless people. It's their uniting feature.
Guys, I cannot take being in Halifax today. The election was one thing, but the unfolding of the park shelter evictions is just grinding me to a pulp. I'm morally outraged and simultaneously dying inside seeing all the responses from people who support the action. It's a critical failure of our local government, an absolutely awful look for the police involved in carrying it out, and yet somehow it's the group of young protestors that are getting all the shade.
Where the fuck did we go so wrong?
Homeless people sheltering in public spaces has never been popular.
Austin, for example, had the city council remove the ban on camping on public property and then had the city residents reinstate it via referendum.
Yeah, tech cities really hate homeless people. It's their uniting feature.
Guys, I cannot take being in Halifax today. The election was one thing, but the unfolding of the park shelter evictions is just grinding me to a pulp. I'm morally outraged and simultaneously dying inside seeing all the responses from people who support the action. It's a critical failure of our local government, an absolutely awful look for the police involved in carrying it out, and yet somehow it's the group of young protestors that are getting all the shade.
Where the fuck did we go so wrong?
Homeless people sheltering in public spaces has never been popular.
Austin, for example, had the city council remove the ban on camping on public property and then had the city residents reinstate it via referendum.
Yeah, tech cities really hate homeless people. It's their uniting feature.
I don't think it's really confined to tech cities.
I wouldn't be surprised if any correlation between the two is basically just a matter of warm weather and high cost of living.
Guys, I cannot take being in Halifax today. The election was one thing, but the unfolding of the park shelter evictions is just grinding me to a pulp. I'm morally outraged and simultaneously dying inside seeing all the responses from people who support the action. It's a critical failure of our local government, an absolutely awful look for the police involved in carrying it out, and yet somehow it's the group of young protestors that are getting all the shade.
Where the fuck did we go so wrong?
Homeless people sheltering in public spaces has never been popular.
Austin, for example, had the city council remove the ban on camping on public property and then had the city residents reinstate it via referendum.
Yeah, tech cities really hate homeless people. It's their uniting feature.
I don't think it's really confined to tech cities.
I wouldn't be surprised if any correlation between the two is basically just a matter of warm weather and high cost of living.
Yeah, if left to their own devices, pretty much most cities aren't too fond of homelessness. It makes local homeowners, businesses, and pedestrians all feel unsafe, and is a eyesore to anyone who sees them. Addressing the underlying social issues that cause homelessness requires resources that local councils lack and often don't have the vision for anyway, so its almost always easier by magnitudes to push the problems under the carpet than try to deal with them.
It's satire, the actual rate is much lower, but this is why I would have accepted the IRV reform the LPC wanted.
Instead, we are still stuck with the need for strategic voting.
It's satire, the actual rate is much lower, but this is why I would have accepted the IRV reform the LPC wanted.
Instead, we are still stuck with the need for strategic voting.
And that's why the liberals never changed the voting system.
It's satire, the actual rate is much lower, but this is why I would have accepted the IRV reform the LPC wanted.
Instead, we are still stuck with the need for strategic voting.
And that's why the liberals never changed the voting system.
Liberals : The Lesser Evil should be their moto
Liberals would very much like to change the voting system. The one they were backing would have been of huge benefit to them. Every party was backing the system that benefited them the most.
I don't really think it's true. I think a ton of Liberal voters would vote Conservative as their other option and that's a lot of why the election outcomes look the way they do.
It's satire, the actual rate is much lower, but this is why I would have accepted the IRV reform the LPC wanted.
Instead, we are still stuck with the need for strategic voting.
And that's why the liberals never changed the voting system.
Liberals : The Lesser Evil should be their moto
Liberals would very much like to change the voting system. The one they were backing would have been of huge benefit to them. Every party was backing the system that benefited them the most.
They had a full majority when they nixed it... I don't see an asterisk beside this statement where it states " "as long as we use the system that advantages us the most or gets the opposition to sign up for"
It's satire, the actual rate is much lower, but this is why I would have accepted the IRV reform the LPC wanted.
Instead, we are still stuck with the need for strategic voting.
And that's why the liberals never changed the voting system.
Liberals : The Lesser Evil should be their moto
Liberals would very much like to change the voting system. The one they were backing would have been of huge benefit to them. Every party was backing the system that benefited them the most.
They had a full majority when they nixed it... I don't see an asterisk beside this statement where it states " "as long as we use the system that advantages us the most or gets the opposition to sign up for"
They wanted buy in from the other parties on the reform. But all the parties wanted different types of reform. All of which coincidentally were beneficial to the party supporting them. (eg- Liberals wanted ranked choice, NDP wanted proportional representation) So the Liberals would have had to pass it just by themselves, which they didn't want to do.
They could have used a referendum to pick between IRV and proportional representation. Or use proportional. Or actually try anything.
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AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited August 2021
We had discussions in this thread/previous incarnation of this thread in which we went over the committee report that came out regarding it (as I believe I posted a link to it), and the end result was each party wanted their own version of how to change it, and as a result, no consensus was formed as to what system to change to. Sure, they could have opted to unilaterally change it, but that would have almost assuredly been to the one that they favoured and the opposition did not, and instead of talking about how we still have FPTP today, we'd be talking about how the Liberals unilaterally imposed a non-democratic alternative.
Posts
That said, given how all over the place the parties were in terms of positions - Liberals to PCs shouldn't feel like a potential move left, and yet - I have no idea what if anything this says about the electorate's own politics.
This province is weird.
Though, agreed that with how the provincial parties currently are in NS, this is more of a lateral move than a step back in many ways.
That dipshit who got booted from the PCs likely getting re-elected is definitely a real kick in the crotch. Normally I'd try to be more diplomatic, but seeing as it's not even blind party loyalty, and her entire defining trait is being a shitty antivaxxer, fuck every single idiot hick who voted for her. I have zero patience for it at this point.
Hey now, that's my home riding and... you're absolutely right. It's fucking embarrassing. Really disgraceful stuff.
To clarify (and I know you know this. I'm just clarifying for the sake of it), everyone who didn't vote for her gets a pass.
Ah yes, the Canadian Recovery Plan. I expect lots of Canadians will feel free to give them an A for this policy proposal! Probably between the R and the P.
No seriously, that the Cons are still running despite this CRP policy must be a flex on the part of the rich to remind us poor plebs that they can do whatever they want, right? The Cons still existing is a bet between rich folks to see who can get away with the most outrageous shit, right?
It also looks like the NDP will increase their seat count, so there's that.
Was this just a "throw the bums out" election?
Ugh.
Not even that, really. Rankin wasn't unpopular. I'm ... honestly not sure what the heck just happened.
Edit: I will say, unless there are a whole bunch of votes in the remaining polls (and some of them may be early/mail-in, so it's not impossible), turnout seems to be down.
Edit Edit: It genuinely annoys me to no end, that at least some of it is probably literally those Houston ads about, "I'm going to fix healthcare!", without a single gat-dang detail, but a non-trivial number of people will go, "That guy likes healthcare? I like healthcare!". Democracy would be so much better if a significant chunk of the electorate weren't shockingly simple minded idiots.
Honestly my main hope is that all the healthcare talk - the PCs aren't going to come close to their promises there, any more than anyone else in NS ever does - means we at least aren't going to see a government that's laser-focused on carrying on a years-long war on healthcare workers like the Liberals were. If they try to implement a tenth of the stuff they're talking about they'll probably be doing better than the incumbents.
Of course, they're PCs, so they'll be laser-focused on carrying on a years-long war on teachers instead, and I suspect we'll see mass renovictions starting next month..
NS Voters: "Housing affordability!"
Polls: "All right, the NDP have a plan for that, followed by the Liberals ..."
NS Voters: "PC Majority!"
Like, if it were a minority government, or if the NDP had won my riding, or if that antivax dipshit hadn't won their riding, or any other number of things, I'd be less miserable right now. But no, this just sucks all around.
If nothing else, I'm definitely motivated to do anything I can in my federal riding now. I guess I'm lucky I have something productive to channel my crushing disappointment into.
The whole "the NDP are uniquely tainted because they were in office that one time decades ago and it wasn't great so they must never win again, as opposed to the traditional incumbent and other-incumbent, who must be held to much looser standards no matter how much they fucked up last year" thing. Stuff like people in Ontario saying they can't touch the party because of Rae Days when they weren't old enough to vote (or, sometimes, eat solid food) when he was premier.
NS is already doing that with with Dexter instead of Rae and I'm kind of bracing to hear the exact same thing come up in provincial elections in the 2030s.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
IMO:
It’s really disappointing to me. The NDP had a fantastic platform, one that would have helped so many in the province in so many ways.
I will say this: provincially, the Liberals and Tories are basically the same party in different colours. So while things won’t get much better, at least they likely won’t get actively worse like the Federal conservatives would do.
It's a feature of all democracies depending on population distribution. If your country or province or state or whatever has the cities outnumber the rural areas, it goes one way. If they don't, it goes the other.
Where the fuck did we go so wrong?
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Seeing the videos of the HUGE overstepping of authority the police were taking with the media was infuriating. Like, the media filming you removing a marginalized person's home while standing 15 feet away does not constitute "obstruction of justice".
Not to mention the follow-up which is usually "Well, they don't have experienced ministers, they really wouldn't know how to run the government anyway."
They don't have experience running the country, you say! Gee, I wonder how someone could get that experience!
On an entirely unrelated note, hey people, how about the next time we're in a minority situation we actually give Harper his nightmare scenario with a proper coalition?
(Gaaaaaaah the country's fear of coalition governments is surreal and I'm still pissed at how effectively the CPC fabricated that.)
Homeless people sheltering in public spaces has never been popular.
Austin, for example, had the city council remove the ban on camping on public property and then had the city residents reinstate it via referendum.
I guess your local government looked at my local government (Seattle) and took away exactly the wrong lessons from it. My condolences to your unhoused folks who are put out by this. Is there a fund to which we could perhaps contribute some money for them?
Yeah, tech cities really hate homeless people. It's their uniting feature.
Tech bros absolutely hate the poor.
I don't think it's really confined to tech cities.
I wouldn't be surprised if any correlation between the two is basically just a matter of warm weather and high cost of living.
Yeah, if left to their own devices, pretty much most cities aren't too fond of homelessness. It makes local homeowners, businesses, and pedestrians all feel unsafe, and is a eyesore to anyone who sees them. Addressing the underlying social issues that cause homelessness requires resources that local councils lack and often don't have the vision for anyway, so its almost always easier by magnitudes to push the problems under the carpet than try to deal with them.
I’m not sure that this is actually satire.
Eh, I've met a lot of people who vote Liberal because that's what they've always done.
It's satire, the actual rate is much lower, but this is why I would have accepted the IRV reform the LPC wanted.
Instead, we are still stuck with the need for strategic voting.
And that's why the liberals never changed the voting system.
Liberals : The Lesser Evil should be their moto
Liberals would very much like to change the voting system. The one they were backing would have been of huge benefit to them. Every party was backing the system that benefited them the most.
I don't really think it's true. I think a ton of Liberal voters would vote Conservative as their other option and that's a lot of why the election outcomes look the way they do.
They had a full majority when they nixed it... I don't see an asterisk beside this statement where it states " "as long as we use the system that advantages us the most or gets the opposition to sign up for"
Edit: They lied. Pure and simple.
They wanted buy in from the other parties on the reform. But all the parties wanted different types of reform. All of which coincidentally were beneficial to the party supporting them. (eg- Liberals wanted ranked choice, NDP wanted proportional representation) So the Liberals would have had to pass it just by themselves, which they didn't want to do.
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But they didn't want proportional representation. They wanted ranked choice.
Just like the NDP could have backed ranked choice and joined the Liberals and maybe that would have convinced the Liberals to go for it.
But in both cases neither party was going to agree to that because they both lose seats under the other party's preferred system.