There is a [Conspiracy Thread] here, and I will seek it out!

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  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    Similar to the 90s Satanic Panic. Stats like "1 in 4 children are sexually abused" became questions looking for an answer. "If it was so common, where were the victims?" The answer that caught on was "a global satanic conspiracy is covering it up". In NZ feminist academics teamed up with paranoid church parents in a kind of symbiosis. They legitimised each other, the Satan sniffers provided victims and the psychologists legitimised repressed memories with a confirmation bias towards finding more victims. Children were pressured into giving evidence of imaginary crimes and then when they attempted to recant their testimony that was ignored while their evidence was kept. It was "believe the victim" ...except when the "victim's" testimony was inconvenient. "Witch hunt" was probably the word that summed up the frenzy as improper handling of accusations caused rumours to spread as worried parents consulted with each other. The crazy Satanic Panic fuelled statements would then be sanitised into less crazy sounding "evidence". Basements that didn't exist, absurd abuse (stabbing infants, drinking blood, being put in cages etc) were all ignored. At the time all of the crazy bits were not reported on, but when it came out afterwards, a lot of people involved in the trial said they would not have supported it had they seen the full evidence instead of the cherry picked respectable bits of hours long interrogation of very young children. The worst thing, aside from those falsely accused, is that it turned "victims" into victims through invasive medical tests, the hours long interrogations and many of these children, now grown, still believe they were abused (despite that abuse being impossible when the facts were looked at). It was a complete fuck up from start to finish.

    The man at the centre of it all died this year. But in a highly unusual move (the first?) they've allowed his appeal to continue posthumously. I think most people these days believe he was innocent, and even at the time there was a divide between those were inclined to believe in Satanic conspiracies and well, normal people. I can only imagine the results if such a case had happened today with social media as it is. I mean, I don't think social media is anything new, the same wild rumours and conspiracy theories spread well enough by phone and in person gossip back in the day. But at the same time, I do have to admit that it would have taken off in a very different way and would have been far more connected to similar panic overseas.

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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    The whole thing is that it's quite likely 1 in 4 children are victims of sexual abuse at one point or another. Probably higher than that, really.

    It's just fifty million shitty situations and shitty people, combined with apathy and fear where all too often the only people who could help are overworked and overstressed and in a lot of cases even if they realize something is going on powerless to actually do much of anything.

    Not some grand global satanic conspiracy.

    Granted, there are the Epsteins or Nassars or Sanduskys (which notably AREN'T what the panics are over) but most people are victims of the millions of shitty uncles and older cousins and babysitters and predatory boy/girlfriends. But the mundane evils around us aren't what people want. They want it all wrapped up like a boss with a flashing weak spot where the evil conspiracy collapses and the good guys win forever.

    And sometimes the Epsteins or Nassars get caught and brought down. But that's not usually how the world works, and there are way too many Paternos and Jim Jordans out there covering things up. Sadly a lot of the people up in arms with the #savethechildren are people looking the other way because they are more focused on some grand fake conspiracy instead of what's happening in their community or even their family.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    It's not that sexual abuse is rare. It's that sexual trafficking of minors is very very rare as far as we can tell.

    If a kid is getting sexually abused, it's by their coach or their parents or something, rather then an international cabal that is gonna ship them to Turkey to be molested.

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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    I wonder, is there also an element of "oh that doesn't count"? Like how you're only racist if you're in the Klan, maybe some people only see overt acts of intercourse as abuse, and other behaviour surrounding it isn't really that bad?

  • MonwynMonwyn Registered User regular
    Magell wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    On the subject of Q, the police in Georgia recently claimed to have saved dozens of children from a trafficking ring.

    The actual number was zero. What they'd done was basically a welfare sweep of children in the family court system, some of them were living with friends, relatives, or a parent who didn't have custody. Most turned up at home on their own. A couple were located in their home. None were victims of trafficking and those that were victims of abuse suffered at the hands of their caregivers, not members of some global cabal.

    The worst part of it is, the reason such a large coordinated sweep had to be done was because there were numerous cases being ignored, it eventually got bad enough to dedicate a whole operation to catching up on them before parents started going to the media.

    This is actually afaik basically how this always goes. This hysteria about child sex trafficking rings and the like is almost entirely built on the back of over-hyped press releases about much more mundane things.

    I just read an article about that.



    Basically the numbers people use are all based on one government employees estimates with no proof of methodology for the numbers and a paper a researcher now no longer supports.

    Listen the sex trafficking conspiracy stuff is overwhelmingly bullshit but I'm not about to assume reason.com has a good grip on reality

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    Gvzbgul
  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    I wonder, is there also an element of "oh that doesn't count"? Like how you're only racist if you're in the Klan, maybe some people only see overt acts of intercourse as abuse, and other behaviour surrounding it isn't really that bad?

    It is really something for a GDST.

    But the amount of stuff people are willing to excuse that is absolutely statutory rape, grooming, assault and coercion. Or just straight up rape. By then or people they excuse.

    While wanting to burn down the house of anyone who might he a 'sex offender'.

    I can give stories but let's just say projection is yet again raising its head whenever that topic comes up.

    MayabirdGnome-Interruptus
  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard Registered User regular
    https://www.salon.com/2020/09/13/what-are-the-true-goals-of-qanon-its-the-21st-centurys-ultimate-catfish-scheme/

    Good article, not paywalled.
    What better word could be used to describe QAnon's relationship with his/her/their followers? If divine intervention allowed these devout, evangelical Christians to see who was actually posting these "Q" messages, they would no doubt vomit into their Wheaties in the morning. Would they still hang on Q's every word if they could suddenly teleport into a glass-lined office building — perhaps on Madison Avenue or in the Virginia suburbs — filled with a team of tattooed, hipster-aged "influencers" hired by the Trump campaign to comb through decades-worth of obscure conspiracy theories and rebrand them as ultra-right-wing horror stories aimed at the gullible and downtrodden? I doubt it.

    In the final analysis, based on almost 30 years of experience researching conspiracy theories, I can only conclude that QAnon is the ultimate catfish scheme for the 21st century.
    For example, in one episode of the aforementioned "Rick B2T" QAnon talk show, Rick's anonymous buddy "Gene" flashes a photo of Ellen DeGeneres sitting on the set of her daily talk show. On the wall behind DeGeneres, to the right, one can see a series of horizontal lines; to the left is a mural that depicts a row of palm trees. "Gene" then flashes a photo of Epstein's mosque-like temple, the walls of which are decorated with a series of horizontal lines. The temple is surrounded by palm trees. A horrified expression darkens the face of "Rick B2T," immediately after which he snarls, "Can you believe that? Her set is Epstein Island! That is just sick!"

    Horizontal lines.

    Palm trees.

    Based on these uncanny symbols, one can only conclude the obvious: Ellen DeGeneres is involved in sex trafficking, just like Epstein.

    One wonders how Rick would react if he ever encountered a real Satanic symbol.

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    On the subject of Q, the police in Georgia recently claimed to have saved dozens of children from a trafficking ring.

    The actual number was zero. What they'd done was basically a welfare sweep of children in the family court system, some of them were living with friends, relatives, or a parent who didn't have custody. Most turned up at home on their own. A couple were located in their home. None were victims of trafficking and those that were victims of abuse suffered at the hands of their caregivers, not members of some global cabal.

    The worst part of it is, the reason such a large coordinated sweep had to be done was because there were numerous cases being ignored, it eventually got bad enough to dedicate a whole operation to catching up on them before parents started going to the media.

    This is actually afaik basically how this always goes. This hysteria about child sex trafficking rings and the like is almost entirely built on the back of over-hyped press releases about much more mundane things.

    I did a GOP telephone push-poll last night and one of the questions was "tell me whether hear news about the following subjects makes you very angry, somewhat, not very, not at all angry:"
    Various topics in there but the second one was "child sex trafficking rings".

    Republican groups are now push-polling Qanon topics!

    shrykeSmrtnikCelestialBadgerElvenshaeL Ron HowardNobeardCentipede DamascusGennenalyse Rueben
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    edited September 15
    spool32 wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    On the subject of Q, the police in Georgia recently claimed to have saved dozens of children from a trafficking ring.

    The actual number was zero. What they'd done was basically a welfare sweep of children in the family court system, some of them were living with friends, relatives, or a parent who didn't have custody. Most turned up at home on their own. A couple were located in their home. None were victims of trafficking and those that were victims of abuse suffered at the hands of their caregivers, not members of some global cabal.

    The worst part of it is, the reason such a large coordinated sweep had to be done was because there were numerous cases being ignored, it eventually got bad enough to dedicate a whole operation to catching up on them before parents started going to the media.

    This is actually afaik basically how this always goes. This hysteria about child sex trafficking rings and the like is almost entirely built on the back of over-hyped press releases about much more mundane things.

    I did a GOP telephone push-poll last night and one of the questions was "tell me whether hear news about the following subjects makes you very angry, somewhat, not very, not at all angry:"
    Various topics in there but the second one was "child sex trafficking rings".

    Republican groups are now push-polling Qanon topics!

    Yes, and it's terrifying. This guy literally was the architect of our post-9/11 rendition operations and now he's calling for people to be prepared to shoot Democrats in the street:

    DarkPrimus on
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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    That latest claim going around that SARS2 was produced in a Chinese lab and had a "study" co-authored by a Chinese virologist to prove it? The claim was created and spread by two of Steve Bannon's organizations. Bannon's been pushing this for months, it seems. Right-wing outlets have been trying to make it an official conspiracy theory since February or so, and a lot of it seems to be because Bannon has a fuckton of shadow groups just lying around.

  • DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist screaming Registered User regular
    They really want a war, don't they?

    ElvenshaeGennenalyse Ruebenautono-wally, erotibot300
  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    Similar to the 90s Satanic Panic. Stats like "1 in 4 children are sexually abused" became questions looking for an answer. "If it was so common, where were the victims?" The answer that caught on was "a global satanic conspiracy is covering it up". In NZ feminist academics teamed up with paranoid church parents in a kind of symbiosis. They legitimised each other, the Satan sniffers provided victims and the psychologists legitimised repressed memories with a confirmation bias towards finding more victims. Children were pressured into giving evidence of imaginary crimes and then when they attempted to recant their testimony that was ignored while their evidence was kept. It was "believe the victim" ...except when the "victim's" testimony was inconvenient. "Witch hunt" was probably the word that summed up the frenzy as improper handling of accusations caused rumours to spread as worried parents consulted with each other. The crazy Satanic Panic fuelled statements would then be sanitised into less crazy sounding "evidence". Basements that didn't exist, absurd abuse (stabbing infants, drinking blood, being put in cages etc) were all ignored. At the time all of the crazy bits were not reported on, but when it came out afterwards, a lot of people involved in the trial said they would not have supported it had they seen the full evidence instead of the cherry picked respectable bits of hours long interrogation of very young children. The worst thing, aside from those falsely accused, is that it turned "victims" into victims through invasive medical tests, the hours long interrogations and many of these children, now grown, still believe they were abused (despite that abuse being impossible when the facts were looked at). It was a complete fuck up from start to finish.

    The man at the centre of it all died this year. But in a highly unusual move (the first?) they've allowed his appeal to continue posthumously. I think most people these days believe he was innocent, and even at the time there was a divide between those were inclined to believe in Satanic conspiracies and well, normal people. I can only imagine the results if such a case had happened today with social media as it is. I mean, I don't think social media is anything new, the same wild rumours and conspiracy theories spread well enough by phone and in person gossip back in the day. But at the same time, I do have to admit that it would have taken off in a very different way and would have been far more connected to similar panic overseas.

    With specific regard to the McMartin preschool trials, it goes beyond that. Judy Johnson, the mother at the center of the original complaints, initially accused Ray Buckey (a teacher at the pre-school) and her own ex-husband of Satanic ritual abuse because she determined that her son's anus was red and irritated during her daily inspection of his butthole.

    Edith_Bagot-Dix on


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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    I mean... How old was the kid? That's a lot less weird than it sounds when a kid's in diapers, you get kinda familiar with the area.

    Hevach on
    shrykeElvenshaeSmrtnikNobeard
  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    Hevach wrote: »
    I mean... How old was the kid? That's a lot less weird than it sounds when a kid's in diapers, you get kinda familiar with the area.

    Her son was around two and a half at the point when she alleged the abuse took place. I don't have kids so I'm not sure how much would be considered normal, but her interest in her child's genitals and anus was noted as unusual at the time and linked to her diagnosed schizophrenia. This was a major component of the trial at the time because the defense relied heavily on the fact that Judy Johnson was quite clearly mentally ill, to the point that the trial was delayed for several months in 1985 while she was hospitalized following a psychotic episode. The trial itself didn't really get going until after Judy Johnson died in 1986, by which point it had completely taken on a life of its own sustained by various other groups.

    Edith_Bagot-Dix on


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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    Hevach wrote: »
    I mean... How old was the kid? That's a lot less weird than it sounds when a kid's in diapers, you get kinda familiar with the area.

    Her son was around two and a half at the point when she alleged the abuse took place.

    At two and a half any parent actually involved with their child is inspecting their kid's butthole multiple times a day as part of basic care.

    shryke on
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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Well plus or minus. Though the idea that a kid has a red anus as some sort of evidence of anything suggests she was not the one changing the diapers before the kid was potty trained.

    wbBv3fj.png
    shrykeAimNobeard
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    shryke wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    I mean... How old was the kid? That's a lot less weird than it sounds when a kid's in diapers, you get kinda familiar with the area.

    Her son was around two and a half at the point when she alleged the abuse took place.

    At two and a half any parent actually involved with their child is inspecting their kid's butthole multiple times a day as part of basic care.

    A fair percent of kids aren't potty trained at that age, and if they are they're probably still in that even worse phase where they go but haven't mastered the wipe properly.
    My wife just last week had to utter the sentence, "Oh my God did you just wipe that on your plate and then pick up your hot dog I fucking swear we should have gotten a dog."

    Hevach on
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  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Well plus or minus. Though the idea that a kid has a red anus as some sort of evidence of anything suggests she was not the one changing the diapers before the kid was potty trained.

    I know you meant that just as a joke, but it really needs to keep in mind that she was severely mentally ill. As horrific as everything that stemmed from her actions were, I think it needs to be kept in mind that she was very sick in a way that directly distorts ones ability to interpret reality.

    Doodmann
  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    Part of Judy Johnson's (keep in mind she's the mother, not one of the kids) testimony also involved Ray Buckey's ability to fly, a power that he curiously never exhibited during the better part of the six years he was held without bail.



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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Well of course you don't just fly in front of people, they throw fuckers in Azkaban for that shit.

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  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Well plus or minus. Though the idea that a kid has a red anus as some sort of evidence of anything suggests she was not the one changing the diapers before the kid was potty trained.

    I know you meant that just as a joke, but it really needs to keep in mind that she was severely mentally ill. As horrific as everything that stemmed from her actions were, I think it needs to be kept in mind that she was very sick in a way that directly distorts ones ability to interpret reality.

    Yes, exactly. Judy Johnson was the original accuser but isn't the villain, her actions were a result of mental illness. The villains of the story are the huge cast of grifters who ruined multiple lives and wasted something like $15 million on a case that was clearly complete nonsense from the jump.



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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Look, all I'm saying is that parenting a young child can be fairly accurately described as a deep and abiding interest in the bowel movements of another human being. Inspecting a butthole for proper colouration is just an every day activity.

    HevachElvenshaeSmrtnikNobeard
  • yossarian_livesyossarian_lives Registered User regular
    I now deeply regret catching up on this thread...

    "I see everything twice!"


  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Pinworms. Only parents will understand.

    ElvenshaeNobeard
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    Pinworms. Only parents will understand.

    We've never had that one but after mentioning it my mother-in-law is now having some kind of war flashback so... Thanks for that, maybe this is the one that'll finally finish her off.

    Hevach on
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  • knight11eknight11e Registered User regular
    Pinworms. Only parents will understand.
    I once went sifting through my child’s poop because I thought I saw a pinworm. After 30 minutes I thought about getting a colander. I gave up shortly after.

    CelestialBadgerOrca
  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Clear tape, y'all. Apply first thing in the morning, then look at the tape under a microscope (or probably more like, take it to the doctor/a lab to look at).

    ArbitraryDescriptor
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    knight11e wrote: »
    Pinworms. Only parents will understand.
    I once went sifting through my child’s poop because I thought I saw a pinworm. After 30 minutes I thought about getting a colander. I gave up shortly after.
    Mayabird wrote: »
    Clear tape, y'all. Apply first thing in the morning, then look at the tape under a microscope (or probably more like, take it to the doctor/a lab to look at).
    I now deeply regret catching up on this thread...

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    There are reports of armed militias pulling people aside in Oregon as they're leaving the fire, looking for Aunty-Fa. I can't find the thread now, but one reporter was Tweeting while he was being held and interrogated by a white supremacist militia.



    In related news, I think we can put this forum's debate of "is Joe Rogan part of the alt-right" to bed now:


    Joe Rogan lies to his millions of listeners that left-wing activists are starting forest fires in Oregon. This dangerous claim has been completely debunked.
    The author is a researcher for Media Matters For America.

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  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited 12:49AM
    Related: an interesting thread on how historically, destructive fires have often been the source of conspiracy theories directed at out-groups and migrants



    There's a bunch of fascinating stories and links in the thread, but this one in particular I had no idea about

    tynic at
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