There is a [Conspiracy Thread] here, and I will seek it out!

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  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    I don't understand how a conspiracy that's so americentrist gets a solid foothold elsewhere.
    One of our biggest exports is dipshit mindsets.

    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Freaking sovereign citizen thought got exported

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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    The idea that laws and taxes don't apply to you if you didn't consent is appealing.

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  • 21stCentury21stCentury A lovely pixel artist and gamecrafter [They/Them]Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Freaking sovereign citizen thought got exported

    i mean, yeah, but there's a difference in my mind between "laws don't apply to me because i know magic lawyer spells" and "Donald 'America First. America Only' Trump will save the entire world from the Satanist pedophiles when the storm starts."

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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    The idea that laws and taxes don't apply to you if you didn't consent is appealing.

    But also loops back around to a severe lack of education and critical thinking skills, as a reasonable person can easily conclude that giving up that portion of their income is what funds the (hopefully) stable and peaceful society in which they live is massively more benefit than having that portion of income.

    Thinking of taxes as a burden that shouldn't apply to you is the kind of shit you get from these off-the-grid prepper types that stupidly think they're independent from everything (while buying all their prepper shit from people living in the systems they claim independence from).

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    The idea that laws and taxes don't apply to you if you didn't consent is appealing.

    But also loops back around to a severe lack of education and critical thinking skills, as a reasonable person can easily conclude that giving up that portion of their income is what funds the (hopefully) stable and peaceful society in which they live is massively more benefit than having that portion of income.

    Thinking of taxes as a burden that shouldn't apply to you is the kind of shit you get from these off-the-grid prepper types that stupidly think they're independent from everything (while buying all their prepper shit from people living in the systems they claim independence from).

    You're overthinking this.

    It's "Fuck you, got mine."

    I have family members that believe in the axiom "Fuck you, got mine," they just aren't willing to couch it in those terms.

    The racism and stomping on people with less power than you is also appealing to them too.

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  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited October 16
    Enc wrote: »
    Believing in conspiracy theories is not mental illness, full stop. That whole line of reasoning to conflate the two leads to very damaging things, from playing down the seriousness of mental illnesses to playing up the protections conspiracy theorists should have in society.

    Conspiracy theories are a function of insecurity and ignorance, they appeal to people who either don't have enough information to understand a topic or are too insecure with the implications of reality about a topic to accept them. Mental illness can fall into the latter category, certainly, but there are plenty of flat earthers who are just poorly educated or under-socialized.

    I think it's less cut and dry than that. Just believing in a conspiracy isn't a mental illness, but conspiracy thinking is something that can lead to mental illness if it's reinforced over and over again.
    I.e You can make yourself ill, rather than there being some underlying issue that is just waiting to be triggered (though some people will definitely be more susceptible than others).

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Conspiracy obsession is probably some sort of personality disorder. Its an exaggerated version of a normal human trait.

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  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    edited October 16
    Obsessive behavior may be triggered through conspiracy theories or any number of other triggers, for example, but the theories themselves aren't the mental illness.

    My personal preference here is that there remain a clear differentiation between the two for the same reason that not keeping a strong societal differentiation between service animals and untrained/unofficial support animals has caused similar problems. At some point bringing the tent too wide and too muddy makes the actual thing lose focus and be marginalized. That's not a great analogy, and I'm not likening metal illness to pet training here, but coming from a service-dog training family has it on my mind as a clear-ish example of my worry of what can happen in social perception when definitions get increasingly unclear or cavalier in application.

    Many conspiracy theorist community members suffer from mental illnesses. Let's identify the specific illnesses on a case by case basis rather than calling the trigger itself an illness.

    Enc on
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  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    I can't see how you make conspiracy theories themselves a mental illness and just leave religious doctrines alone. Both lean pretty heavily on circular reasoning to justify things not in evidence, even if today's religions focus more on the unknowable rather than the demonstrably false. QAnon feels more like an underdeveloped nascent cult to me.

    Which is to say that making both a mental illness is probably a bad idea.

  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Seems like a Chicken/Egg situation that won't easily fit for many. The noted ramifications (impacting one's life/health, exacerbating or creating new issues in terms of leading a stable and happy life, etc) might be the best determining factor, not of Q or conspiracy theories in general being or creating mental illness, so much as being an appealing pattern for people to latch onto, and in a way that might be particularly harsh on those predisposed to falling down the rabbit hole.

    For many, it'll just be a sign that a given person is an asshole. A friend of mine stumbled across a guy with a Q themed profile pic on a dating app and indicator that he's a "Q warrior" in said profile, which is obviously a massive red flag all around. For others it offers explanations and simple answers for a complex, confusing, and scary world. Yes, much like many organized religions, it plays on the same concerns, but sort of like the difference between attending church weekly and contributing a few bucks to a collection plate, versus deep diving into a(nother) cult and being destitute within a year.

    It's a mess of a question because people are messy beings, and given that we never really 'solved' many of the precursors to this movement, I imagine we'll be handling its outcome for a while.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited October 16
    We can drop this tangent if you like, but Religions tend not towards paranoia as an aspect of faith as much, and generally don't have the same kind of draw built in. Any search for further truths with a religion is either coming from a teacher, or meditation and/or scholarship. Rarely is there a truth that is being denied to you by a shadowy cabal of more powerful people, that can be found with more diligent searching and a deeper rejection of the world as it appears and those that will try to dissuade you.

    I just think there is a grey area when it comes to something that will give you paranoid delusions if you keep at it. I can understand about wanting to keep mental illness as a much more medical term, not about personality or beliefs but the result of a physiological issue with the brain, both to destigmatise it and to avoid overclassification. We're kind of coming at this thing from the same place in two different directions and honestly I'm probably using the wrong terminology. Is the disorder/disease terminology significant? As I almost certainly mean the former if that's the case (but thought it was an outdated term from when there was a more mental/physiological split).

    But if there are actions that appear to lead to these physical issues then I'm not sure what the term would be, it's clear that conspiracy thinking can lead to mental illness if pursued. I think if you're coming at it from a point of view that you've got to have some underlying condition to be susceptible to things going that far, then we're talking something that is spread pretty widely through the population that is specifically triggered by this rather than more 'heathy' obsessions. But there's definitely a big jump between being aware/believing in a conspiracy theory and conspiracy thinking - it's relatively harmless as a passive thing, just something you'd heard that sounds right to you, but when it's something you're actively dwelling on and allowing it to influence your actions, then things are going to start going in a dangerous direction.

    I just don't believe that there's an underlying trait/illness that means you pick the latter option there rather than the former. The first step is a rational one, but increasingly you train your brain to react in increasingly irrational ways.

    Tastyfish on
  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular

    If he returns from the great beyond today I will watch that speech

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  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    It's sad that him not appearing will do such a poor job of convincing people this whole thing is bullshit.

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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Q predictions failing is greeted I e of two ways:

    A. The original source is discredited as a deep state psyop - this is most common with fringe versions (of Q that is, the whole thing is fringe) and helps drive the churning tapestry of subtle flavors that is Q
    B. If the source is one of the more respected and core ones, then they often go full unfathomable mind of God Trump and cite their feeble intellect's inability to decipher the cryptic genius clues.

  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Q-types are already convincing themselves that JFK Jr. has already replaced Mike Pence, and is just going around wearing a Pence mask, so even if he doesn't "reveal" himself he's already there.

    If you're wondering, no, none of them have given the slightest thought about "so...what about Pence himself? What happened to him if he was "replaced"?


    BTW, if you were wondering how JFK Jr. supposedly fits into QAnon:


    [INSANITY ARROW CHART]

    JJ MacNab is an expert on right-wing extremism, and cannot troll you any more than Q people troll themselves.

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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Oh, yes, how could I forget the third one: "Nuh uh, the prediction was so right you can't even see it!"

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  • RingoRingo HE KEEPS REPEATING THE LINE I'M GONNA CRY BLEASE LET HIM LIVE YOU MADE ME WATCH SO MUCH KISSING IN THIS FILM LET INIGO LIVERegistered User regular
    "Salt Lake City isn't a real place. It's clearly a metaphor!"

    One of my favorite bits about religious faith in The Book of Mormon

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited October 17
    Mayabird wrote: »
    Q-types are already convincing themselves that JFK Jr. has already replaced Mike Pence, and is just going around wearing a Pence mask, so even if he doesn't "reveal" himself he's already there.

    If you're wondering, no, none of them have given the slightest thought about "so...what about Pence himself? What happened to him if he was "replaced"?


    BTW, if you were wondering how JFK Jr. supposedly fits into QAnon:


    [INSANITY ARROW CHART]

    JJ MacNab is an expert on right-wing extremism, and cannot troll you any more than Q people troll themselves.

    Does anybody have a pdf of the rulebook? I feel like the game should be a combination of Balderdash and Risk, but with victory going to the last person to die of aneurysm.

    I'm interested to see what the backstory of the various factions are, though. The Papal Bloodlines group sounds like it would obviously have some Catholic magic worked in there, but the Extraterrestrials also have the Ashtar Command sub-faction which sounds way better. But then you look at Unacknowledged Special Access projects, which has got to have some neat abilities after enough research.

    Ninja Snarl P on
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-11/qanon-website-shuts-down-after-n-j-man-identified-as-operator

    Jason Gilinas of New Jersey has been outed as Qmap, one of the main Q producers. While wearing Q and Maga merch and calling Q the patriotic need to save Real America he declined comment and wants nothing to do with discussion of whether or not he is Qmap.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Also, a number of QAnon related websites went down for a short period when one of the service providers they used found out exactly who they were providing service to:
    A large number of 8kun and QAnon-related sites (see map above) are connected to the Web via a single Internet provider in Vancouver, Wash. called VanwaTech (a.k.a. “OrcaTech“). Previous appeals to VanwaTech to disconnect these sites have fallen on deaf ears, as the company’s owner Nick Lim reportedly has been working with 8kun’s administrators to keep the sites online in the name of protecting free speech.

    But VanwaTech also had a single point of failure on its end: The swath of Internet addresses serving the various 8kun/QAnon sites were being protected from otherwise crippling and incessant distributed-denial-of-service (DDoS) attacks by Hillsboro, Ore. based CNServers LLC.

    On Sunday evening, security researcher Ron Guilmette placed a phone call to CNServers’ owner, who professed to be shocked by revelations that his company was helping QAnon and 8kun keep the lights on.

    Within minutes of that call, CNServers told its customer — Spartan Host Ltd., which is registered in Belfast, Northern Ireland — that it would no longer be providing DDoS protection for the set of 254 Internet addresses that Spartan Host was routing on behalf of VanwaTech.

    Contacted by KrebsOnSecurity, the person who answered the phone at CNServers asked not to be named in this story for fear of possible reprisals from the 8kun/QAnon crowd. But they confirmed that CNServers had indeed terminated its service with Spartan Host. That person added they weren’t a fan of either 8kun or QAnon, and said they would not self-describe as a Trump supporter.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited October 20
    I can't see how you make conspiracy theories themselves a mental illness and just leave religious doctrines alone. Both lean pretty heavily on circular reasoning to justify things not in evidence, even if today's religions focus more on the unknowable rather than the demonstrably false. QAnon feels more like an underdeveloped nascent cult to me.

    Sections of Christianity are already very much into conspiracy thought as it is believed Satan has power and influence over the world and uses it to make people reject truth in exchange for lies.

    To flip from the much discussed type of pro-Trump Conservative Christian conspiracy theorists, an acquaintance of mine briefly got interested in a website called Rival Nations that started up in 2016, likely in reaction to Conservative Christians who idolize Trump. I've checked it out myself; it's very slickly designed for what appears to be an independent, anonymous group's atypical views on the Bible.

    Here are a few highlights from Rival Nations:
    - Satan is the god of this world, and all politicians in every nation are his servants. No political party fully espouses the teachings of Christ. Therefore, Christians should not be involved in politics or perform the Pledge of Allegiance.
    - Church and State should be separate because all earthly nations are under the control of Satan and will pervert the Church to serve the State.
    - The United States of America is currently Satan's greatest tool for enacting suffering and encouraging sinful behavior throughout the world.
    - In addition to politicians, Satan also chooses various public figures, such as celebrities, to mislead humanity.
    According to the Scriptures, Satan is the “god of this age” (2 Corinthians 4:4). This present evil world, including its governments, are of Satan’s making. Sadly, all nations have been deceived by Satan (Revelation 12:9) and under his control (1 John 5:19). Though Christians live in the world, they are not to be of the world. The night before his crucifixion, Jesus, praying for his followers, said to his Father, “My disciples are not of the world, just as I am not of the world” (John 17:16).

    The Biblical record shows that Jesus did not try to reform human government. Instead, he is replacing it. The governments of this world, as they are under Satan’s sway, are in opposition to God. Satan cannot be reformed; he has to be replaced. That is also true of the human governments of this present world.

    It's definitely not right wing in nature as it demonizes America (one article is titled "Living in the Great Satan", and another is "Thanksgiving and Genocide"), is anti-war, and calls out capitalism as a tool of evil. However, it's anti-abortion (while also condemning conservative pro-lifers as truly only being pro-birth), anti-taxation, condemns divorce and remarriage as adultery, and is thoroughly anti-Semitic in that it states that the Old Testament is nearly worthless and that many of the things it says God did or claims that God commanded were complete fabrications by the authors (the time period of Jesus' birth was the first time God's word could be truly comprehended, for some reason). Surprisingly, I haven't seen any mention at all about LGBT+ issues.

    Looking at its Facebook page, the related pages suggested are frequently labeled as "Christian Anarchist".

    EDIT: Here's a few excerpts from one of Rival Nations' newest articles, "Voting is Violence":
    Voting is evil, immoral, and contemptible. Government is an affront to God. Human rulers are a rejection of God. Voting is the validation of sinful rebellion.

    ---
    God didn’t want Israel to have a human ruler because, ultimately, God didn’t want anyone to have a human ruler. Israel was called to become an example to the world for how God wanted things to be. Eventually, Israel succumbed to temptation and demanded a king to rule over them (1 Samuel 8:5). Israel wanted to feel safe, and by wanting a human ruler, they were demonstrating that they didn’t trust God to protect or rule them (1 Samuel 8:19-20). 

    ---
    Since God doesn’t want people to have human rulers over them, then the act of appointing human rulers is, obviously, a sin. Voting is an attempt to “appoint a king to lead us,” which makes God say, “they have rejected me as their king” (1 Samuel 8:5-7). Voting is trying to appoint a human ruler, appointing a human ruler is rejecting God, rejecting God is a sin; therefore, voting is a sin. Voting is a sin.

    ---
    That masterful deception of Satan’s greatest nation is that the slaves think they can choose their master.

    By keeping in mind that only those who worship and serve Satan are able to obtain political power and authority, it is easy to see why politicians are so notorious for being evil and corrupt. All politicians are seeking power from Satan.

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  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    Yeah, Tolstoy was super into that kind of thing.

  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited October 20
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    Yeah, Tolstoy was super into that kind of thing.

    As someone who has lived a lot of my life in rural Georgia, where Conservative Christianity is the standard, seeing a Christian website making statements like "America is Satan's greatest tool", "abortion is wrong, but pro-lifers are hypocrites who are only pro-birth", and "violence is always wrong, even in self-defense" is kinda mind blowing. This site in particular's claim that any part of the Old Testament that depicts God performing or commanding evil acts is a complete fabrication by the Old Testament's authors is also a bit of a shock.

    Honestly, had this site been around back when I was in my early teens and questioning the brand of Christianity I'd been raised in I might have converted to Christian Anarchism instead of becoming an agnostic lefty.

    I am curious where Rival Nations gets its money, though. It is a very well designed site without any ads (and also has someone involved who can Photoshop the Statue of Liberty getting blasted by lasers from Heaven), and it's Facebook page only has 1.5k likes, so it's definitely obscure, but it's been active for four years now.

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  • GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    So... with QAnon becoming more than just 'normal 4chan nonsense', are we witnessing the birth of a new religion without central leadership vs other recent religions like scientology? I suppose it makes sense that the internet could birth a protestant movement without having a strong starting point with a real leader or central figurehead's initial orthodoxy like would have been more or less required historically.

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    QAnon does have central leadership - whoever Q is.

  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    IIRC there's circumstantial evidence that Q is no longer in the hands of the person who created it, having been stolen at least once, maybe more than that.

    Oh brilliant
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    IIRC there's circumstantial evidence that Q is no longer in the hands of the person who created it, having been stolen at least once, maybe more than that.

    Then that new person is the leader now.

  • GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    IIRC there's circumstantial evidence that Q is no longer in the hands of the person who created it, having been stolen at least once, maybe more than that.

    Then that new person is the leader now.

    I guess I got the impression that Q had been taken over, presumably by a small group. I suppose you're right that that would still give you a leading council, with the with the hilarious possibility that at any given point international hackers could coop the whole thing with no one really being able to validate it either way.

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  • TavTav Registered User regular
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    So... with QAnon becoming more than just 'normal 4chan nonsense', are we witnessing the birth of a new religion without central leadership vs other recent religions like scientology? I suppose it makes sense that the internet could birth a protestant movement without having a strong starting point with a real leader or central figurehead's initial orthodoxy like would have been more or less required historically.

    nah

    Q is just bringing in people who used to believe in flat earth and will flock to something else after Biden wins and Trump's momentum slows down

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Tav wrote: »
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    So... with QAnon becoming more than just 'normal 4chan nonsense', are we witnessing the birth of a new religion without central leadership vs other recent religions like scientology? I suppose it makes sense that the internet could birth a protestant movement without having a strong starting point with a real leader or central figurehead's initial orthodoxy like would have been more or less required historically.

    nah

    Q is just bringing in people who used to believe in flat earth and will flock to something else after Biden wins and Trump's momentum slows down

    Sadly, no. QAnon is driving a lot of regular Republicans absolutely crazy as they try to deal with the cognitive dissonance of their faith in Trump vs the observable fact that he is not, in fact, draining the swamp.

    DarkPrimusSmrtnik
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    Tav wrote: »
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    So... with QAnon becoming more than just 'normal 4chan nonsense', are we witnessing the birth of a new religion without central leadership vs other recent religions like scientology? I suppose it makes sense that the internet could birth a protestant movement without having a strong starting point with a real leader or central figurehead's initial orthodoxy like would have been more or less required historically.

    nah

    Q is just bringing in people who used to believe in flat earth and will flock to something else after Biden wins and Trump's momentum slows down

    Sadly, no. QAnon is driving a lot of regular Republicans absolutely crazy as they try to deal with the cognitive dissonance of their faith in Trump vs the observable fact that he is not, in fact, draining the swamp.

    It's not about any specific claim made by Q, it's about the overarching narrative that the Liberal Elites and Democrats are Evil and the Republican Party Cannot Fail, Only Be Failed.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Tav wrote: »
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    So... with QAnon becoming more than just 'normal 4chan nonsense', are we witnessing the birth of a new religion without central leadership vs other recent religions like scientology? I suppose it makes sense that the internet could birth a protestant movement without having a strong starting point with a real leader or central figurehead's initial orthodoxy like would have been more or less required historically.

    nah

    Q is just bringing in people who used to believe in flat earth and will flock to something else after Biden wins and Trump's momentum slows down

    Two problems though.
    1) Trump can't fail, he can only be failed.
    2) Unlike the Flat Earth stuff, QAnon gives you guaranteed pure evil to rail against that is going to get people pumped up in a way that the vague nefarious doings of the Flat Earth Cabal isn't.

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  • GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    Tav wrote: »
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    So... with QAnon becoming more than just 'normal 4chan nonsense', are we witnessing the birth of a new religion without central leadership vs other recent religions like scientology? I suppose it makes sense that the internet could birth a protestant movement without having a strong starting point with a real leader or central figurehead's initial orthodoxy like would have been more or less required historically.

    nah

    Q is just bringing in people who used to believe in flat earth and will flock to something else after Biden wins and Trump's momentum slows down

    They've already shown millenialist tendencies for handling broken prophecies, whether interest holds will probably depend on how the leadership as it is spins things and if they make money off of this all some how.

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    IIRC there's circumstantial evidence that Q is no longer in the hands of the person who created it, having been stolen at least once, maybe more than that.

    Then that new person is the leader now.

    I guess I got the impression that Q had been taken over, presumably by a small group. I suppose you're right that that would still give you a leading council, with the with the hilarious possibility that at any given point international hackers could coop the whole thing with no one really being able to validate it either way.

    Look, unless your conspiracy theory that Q has been replaced has a crazy-ass 4D chart, I just can't buy into it.

    It's not a real conspiracy without an insane chart.

    Gilgaron
  • Kayne Red RobeKayne Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I can't see how you make conspiracy theories themselves a mental illness and just leave religious doctrines alone. Both lean pretty heavily on circular reasoning to justify things not in evidence, even if today's religions focus more on the unknowable rather than the demonstrably false. QAnon feels more like an underdeveloped nascent cult to me.

    Sections of Christianity are already very much into conspiracy thought as it is believed Satan has power and influence over the world and uses it to make people reject truth in exchange for lies.

    To flip from the much discussed type of pro-Trump Conservative Christian conspiracy theorists, an acquaintance of mine briefly got interested in a website called Rival Nations that started up in 2016, likely in reaction to Conservative Christians who idolize Trump. I've checked it out myself; it's very slickly designed for what appears to be an independent, anonymous group's atypical views on the Bible.

    Here are a few highlights from Rival Nations:
    - Satan is the god of this world, and all politicians in every nation are his servants. No political party fully espouses the teachings of Christ. Therefore, Christians should not be involved in politics or perform the Pledge of Allegiance.
    - Church and State should be separate because all earthly nations are under the control of Satan and will pervert the Church to serve the State.
    - The United States of America is currently Satan's greatest tool for enacting suffering and encouraging sinful behavior throughout the world.
    - In addition to politicians, Satan also chooses various public figures, such as celebrities, to mislead humanity.
    According to the Scriptures, Satan is the “god of this age” (2 Corinthians 4:4). This present evil world, including its governments, are of Satan’s making. Sadly, all nations have been deceived by Satan (Revelation 12:9) and under his control (1 John 5:19). Though Christians live in the world, they are not to be of the world. The night before his crucifixion, Jesus, praying for his followers, said to his Father, “My disciples are not of the world, just as I am not of the world” (John 17:16).

    The Biblical record shows that Jesus did not try to reform human government. Instead, he is replacing it. The governments of this world, as they are under Satan’s sway, are in opposition to God. Satan cannot be reformed; he has to be replaced. That is also true of the human governments of this present world.

    It's definitely not right wing in nature as it demonizes America (one article is titled "Living in the Great Satan", and another is "Thanksgiving and Genocide"), is anti-war, and calls out capitalism as a tool of evil. However, it's anti-abortion (while also condemning conservative pro-lifers as truly only being pro-birth), anti-taxation, condemns divorce and remarriage as adultery, and is thoroughly anti-Semitic in that it states that the Old Testament is nearly worthless and that many of the things it says God did or claims that God commanded were complete fabrications by the authors (the time period of Jesus' birth was the first time God's word could be truly comprehended, for some reason). Surprisingly, I haven't seen any mention at all about LGBT+ issues.

    Looking at its Facebook page, the related pages suggested are frequently labeled as "Christian Anarchist".

    EDIT: Here's a few excerpts from one of Rival Nations' newest articles, "Voting is Violence":
    Voting is evil, immoral, and contemptible. Government is an affront to God. Human rulers are a rejection of God. Voting is the validation of sinful rebellion.

    ---
    God didn’t want Israel to have a human ruler because, ultimately, God didn’t want anyone to have a human ruler. Israel was called to become an example to the world for how God wanted things to be. Eventually, Israel succumbed to temptation and demanded a king to rule over them (1 Samuel 8:5). Israel wanted to feel safe, and by wanting a human ruler, they were demonstrating that they didn’t trust God to protect or rule them (1 Samuel 8:19-20). 

    ---
    Since God doesn’t want people to have human rulers over them, then the act of appointing human rulers is, obviously, a sin. Voting is an attempt to “appoint a king to lead us,” which makes God say, “they have rejected me as their king” (1 Samuel 8:5-7). Voting is trying to appoint a human ruler, appointing a human ruler is rejecting God, rejecting God is a sin; therefore, voting is a sin. Voting is a sin.

    ---
    That masterful deception of Satan’s greatest nation is that the slaves think they can choose their master.

    By keeping in mind that only those who worship and serve Satan are able to obtain political power and authority, it is easy to see why politicians are so notorious for being evil and corrupt. All politicians are seeking power from Satan.

    4fpwtixlo57b.jpg

    Isn't that just Catharism?

    CelestialBadger
  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    edited October 20
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    IIRC there's circumstantial evidence that Q is no longer in the hands of the person who created it, having been stolen at least once, maybe more than that.

    Then that new person is the leader now.

    I guess I got the impression that Q had been taken over, presumably by a small group. I suppose you're right that that would still give you a leading council, with the with the hilarious possibility that at any given point international hackers could coop the whole thing with no one really being able to validate it either way.

    I'm vaguely surprised that white hat hackers haven't really fucked with the movement by now. Although I guess who's to say that they haven't already tried but the QAnon believers just immediately incorporated their attempts at trolling into their worldview?

    Eddy on
    "and the morning stars I have seen
    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
  • BlindPsychicBlindPsychic Registered User regular
    edited October 20
    Catharism went quite a bit further in the metaphysics than this group seems to.

    It also mostly just seems like the idiosyncratic views of a single person rather than an organized group. It seems to have a lot of 'stuff I like is right, stuff I don't like is wrong' cherry picking you see in a lot of these sects.

    BlindPsychic on
    Gvzbgul
  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    I'd be willing to bet that the majority of QAnon adherents have never visited 8chan or wherever the Q posts occur. They're basing their faith in whatever they personally consider the message to be entirely on memes and posts on more mainstream social media sites. So even if the central "Q" got replaced or corrupted or whatever the new messages would have to filter through a lot of layers to get to the general Q-faithful.

    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
    shrykeElvenshae
  • evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    So... with QAnon becoming more than just 'normal 4chan nonsense', are we witnessing the birth of a new religion without central leadership vs other recent religions like scientology? I suppose it makes sense that the internet could birth a protestant movement without having a strong starting point with a real leader or central figurehead's initial orthodoxy like would have been more or less required historically.

    My prediction is that someone in the movement will do something that manages to hit the national news cycle while Democrats are in power, and Qanon gets stomped on HARD. At that point, there's no real way for it to expand past a few weirdos hanging out on 8chan, and will end up dormant until it mutates again.

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