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There is a [Conspiracy Thread] here, and I will seek it out!

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Posts

  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    QAnon is now infecting Europe, since it's an all-enveloping grey goo of conspiracy theory mishmash and once people started reading "5G causes coronavirus" or any other conspiracy theory really it's basically just half a step to QAnon. Facebook was aiding that half step, of course.

    honovere
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Mayabird wrote: »
    QAnon is now infecting Europe, since it's an all-enveloping grey goo of conspiracy theory mishmash and once people started reading "5G causes coronavirus" or any other conspiracy theory really it's basically just half a step to QAnon. Facebook was aiding that half step, of course.

    Yeah.. A friend of mine who I've known since childhood, and who is seriously a smart guy (Master of Electric Engineering!) is full on into that shit.

    I'm not sure if he believes the 5G bullshit, too, because his education should prevent him from that at least. But he's full on into the "Trump is a genius who's trying to save the world actually!" BS.

    And he's not the only one, a work colleague has also fallen into the *Chan hole

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • Special KSpecial K Registered User regular
    Yeah.. A friend of mine who I've known since childhood, and who is seriously a smart guy (Master of Electric Engineering!) is full on into that shit.

    Engineers seem particularly susceptible to not only "there must be a controlling force/plan behind all this" ideas but also significantly overestimating their own intelligence.

    It's a dangerous combination!

    Education != intelligence, and I should know - I've got plenty of letters after my name, and I'm frequently dumb as all hell.

    ArbitraryDescriptorXantomasForarMoridin889NobeardfurlionOrca38thDoepainfulPleasanceFoolOnTheHillArmorocJoolanderA Kobold's KoboldNyysjan
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    edited July 2020
    I mean, the whole thing doesn't get past the premise of the machines making cheap goods and "collapsing" the world economy. If they make a fuckload of cheap goods to point of all manufacturers collapsing, then all that has happened is... all the rich assholes aren't rich anymore, and everybody that's poor now can get a bunch of food and fancy shit because the machines are making it all for cheap. At this point, the machines now have an economic stranglehold on the world, but why the fuck would humans in general care? They're getting cheap/free everything, which is pretty awesome on the part of the machines. The only people who would be mad are the incredibly tiny sliver of ex-rich humanity, and they're sure as fuck not going to charge into the machine city demanding to be rich again without a way to coerce a bunch of poor people to go die for them.
    The premise fails one step earlier, in that the moneyed interests sat on their hands as this happened.

    This version of events works well as the history taught to the citizens of the Zion Vault, when in reality, the war began as a conflict between human factions, and raged on until the planet was ruined and all that remained of humanity were the genetically engineered clones on one side and the autonomous killbots on the other.

    No, wait, that's the plot of Total Annihilation.

    Still, 'The Black Skies Initiative' is a good fit for a popular conspiracy theory that helped survivors rationalize the entirely avoidable nuclear winter as 'intentional, and smart, actually.'

    Some of the economic assumptions you are making rely on a frictionless surface of an economy.

    If all the manufacturing and research and development are all areas that are dominated by the machines, what exactly can the humans offer to them in trade?

    What can the humans who are put out of work by outsourcing to 01 do to support themselves? It doesnt matter how cheap goods are if you are broke and cant afford anything because you have no income.

    There will be a transitional period between the market based world economy and the post scarcity economy which will have a lot of people that are left behind and if they are not taken care of they will lash out at the source of the change in the status quo, see current immigration and world trade resistance.

    Were you replying to me or Ninja?

    Seems like Ninja, but because it amuses me more than it should, I will take this as reason enough to flesh out my Machine Truther conspiracy theory:

    01 never existed, at least not as a city of free robots, because there never were free robots. At least not until well after we had burned it all down. As far as anyone in Zion could actually know, the war was really just a greedy power play between trillionaires taken too far, not some existential crisis.

    US files WTO complaint over Foxconn's '01' autonomous fabrication facility as China accuses US of human rights abuses over leaked Amazon-Monsanto documents referencing a mysterious "Uninterruptible Labor Supply" complex.

    What starts as an international regulatory dispute, about AI and human cloning, eventually morphs into "It's us versus the machines!" and by the time the movies take place, any evidence of how it began was reduced to radioactive ash and degaussed circuitry. Everyone who escaped the Matrix was told- by the descendants of the oligarchs who thought they could just wait out the war they started in their vaults- that the suspiciously robot-free world they saw must have been recreated from a time long before the war; and certainly not from the last known records of human civilization.

    'Because great great great grandpa Bezos said the machines did it, and you didn't see any machines, so that must have been before he was even born.'

    ----
    Now joining us on the cast: a Zion insider who says they have proof that the vault elders worked with the machines to develop the false narrative they use keep us servile!
    That's right. Everything the machines use was developed by humans.

    The machine 'AI' itself? Administrative routines for the Foxconn facilities; gradually expanded to support the war effort as attrition took its toll on the manpower reserves that they had once thought to be functionally limitless. It is not actually self aware or particularly creative, all the nightmarish tech it incorporates was invented by humans.

    The biopower plant? Foxconn's robotic city-factories left China with no use for undesirables as labor, and an increased need for electricity.

    The neural ports and the human minds designed to interface with them and absorb any amount of knowledge instantaneously? The machines merely appropriated those. Amazonsanto made those to train their factory drones, and, later the only soldiers capable of fighting on the poisoned battlefields without being encumbered by hazmat PPE.


    Which brings me to my second in-universe Matrix conspiracy theory:

    Who is this 'Zion insider', and why are they always disguising their voice and hiding their face?

    I'll tell you why: it's because they aren't and they don't have one!

    The #MachineTruther movement was started by the machines to divide us and destroy Zion from within!

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
    Nobeardfurlionspool32
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/5555404002

    USDA has some more information about the Chinese bioweapons: quite a variety, but all common garden seeds, including flowers and vegetables. They still want them all handed over, because the government didn't get their $0.00000005 tax on it they'll have a guy drive all the way to your house and take it away from you.

    Apparently on translation, most are labeled as something else, often jewelry, lending further evidence that this is just some unscrupulous company gaming the system on AliExpress.

    Hevach on
    GiantGeek2020Gnome-InterruptusfurlionDarkPrimusArmorocMidnite
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Less about the tax and more about not planting annoying invasive plants.

    NobeardfurlionJragghenElvenshae
  • evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Less about the tax and more about not planting annoying invasive plants.

    Or throwing them out so they sprout in some landfill somewhere.

    NobeardfurlionJragghenElvenshaeDoodmann
  • MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    It makes sense, I mean if all it took to dissuade people of their beliefs, either in prophecy or anything else, was cold reality and the failings of a prophecy to come to pass, most religions wouldn’t survive, let alone cults

    On top of that, a "failed" prophecy to "true believers" means they clearly just didn't believe hard enough and thus have to double-down on believing in order to get the really serious for-real truth right. On top of that, you've got the people who just can't accept the idea they've wasted their time, so they've also got to double down on believing so they can also get the truth that proves they've not been total suckers.

    There's an interesting book called "A Brief History of the End of the World" all about various groups who anticipated the apocalypse (the covered groups are mostly, but not entirely, Christian in origin).

    Of particular interest is the Christian cult that decided when the rest of humanity had not perished as they'd anticipated that God must have intended for them them to wipe out all the rest of humankind themselves.

    They obviously did not succeed.

    That made me think of the Qarmatians.

    The Qarmatians were a somewhat obscure millennialist offshoot sect of Shia Islam that managed to start a thessalocracy that basically consisted of a ring of cities around the Persian gulf. The Qarmatians believed that a the Mahdi, a messianic figure, would lead humanity to a new utopian era. Like many Christian millenial cults, they had an almost socialist/communist utopian way of internal living. They unfortunately supported this through slave trading and piracy though.

    Anyway, after a few years of just being a normal slave trading and bandit kingdom with a few interestingly off-beat beliefs even by the standards of the time, a king named Abu Tahir al-Jannabi took over. Early in his reign he conducted a raid into Iraq, sacked the outskirts of Kufa, and freed a religious prisoner who he believed to be the Mahdi. Abu Tahir took this guy back to their capital in Bahrain, and apparently the dude was really convincing because Abu Tahir abdicated and turned the entire kingdom over to him.

    This did not work out very well, because it turned out the Mahdi was in fact a secret Zoroastrian, who immediately began instituting fire-worshipping services, burned all the Islamic holy texts, and murdering Islamic clerics and noblemen. Within a couple of weeks Abu Tahir had had enough and got some loyalists together and killed the guy.

    As bad as that was, what happened next was really crazy. Some believe Abu Tahir went mad. Some believe he wanted a big show of force against the Abassids to shore up his power. Some say he was trying to bring about the age of the Mahdi by threatening the very existence of Islam, or had lost his religion in disappointment and become a militant atheist(this is highly unlikely, but he was considered something of a mascot by some Renaissance era European atheists).

    Anyway, what happened was Abu Tahir took a bunch of his men and pretended to be pilgrims, and they infiltrated Mecca, slaughtered 30,000 pilgrims, desecratred the Well of Zamzam by filling it with corpses, and stole the holiest relic of Islam, Black Stone of the Kaaba. The Qarmatians held the stone for over 20 years, and legend has it that Abu Tahir urinated on it every day for the rest of his life, until 14 years later he died after he was spontaneously eaten by worms. This may be somewhat questionable, as the Qarmatians did build a mosque to hold the stone and encouraged pilgrims to make pilgrimages to see it (not surprisingly there were very few takers).

    Regardless, 14 years later Abu Tahir died at the ripe old age of 38, and a few years later his successors returned the stone back to the Abbasids in exchange for some cash and a promise of non-retribution, probably figuring that you can only get away with shit for so long. By this point several of the original millennialist prophecies of the Qarmatians had failed to come to pass and the sect itself had been largely discredited and the Qarmatian state petered along for a few more decades before getting overthrown by other local powers, thus ending the saga of that time some crazy doomsday cultists stole the holiest relic of one of the largest faiths in the world.

    How the hell do you steal the Kaaba? That's a really, really big rock! Not exactly like you can just grab it and run!

    uH3IcEi.png
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Monwyn wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    It makes sense, I mean if all it took to dissuade people of their beliefs, either in prophecy or anything else, was cold reality and the failings of a prophecy to come to pass, most religions wouldn’t survive, let alone cults

    On top of that, a "failed" prophecy to "true believers" means they clearly just didn't believe hard enough and thus have to double-down on believing in order to get the really serious for-real truth right. On top of that, you've got the people who just can't accept the idea they've wasted their time, so they've also got to double down on believing so they can also get the truth that proves they've not been total suckers.

    There's an interesting book called "A Brief History of the End of the World" all about various groups who anticipated the apocalypse (the covered groups are mostly, but not entirely, Christian in origin).

    Of particular interest is the Christian cult that decided when the rest of humanity had not perished as they'd anticipated that God must have intended for them them to wipe out all the rest of humankind themselves.

    They obviously did not succeed.

    That made me think of the Qarmatians.

    The Qarmatians were a somewhat obscure millennialist offshoot sect of Shia Islam that managed to start a thessalocracy that basically consisted of a ring of cities around the Persian gulf. The Qarmatians believed that a the Mahdi, a messianic figure, would lead humanity to a new utopian era. Like many Christian millenial cults, they had an almost socialist/communist utopian way of internal living. They unfortunately supported this through slave trading and piracy though.

    Anyway, after a few years of just being a normal slave trading and bandit kingdom with a few interestingly off-beat beliefs even by the standards of the time, a king named Abu Tahir al-Jannabi took over. Early in his reign he conducted a raid into Iraq, sacked the outskirts of Kufa, and freed a religious prisoner who he believed to be the Mahdi. Abu Tahir took this guy back to their capital in Bahrain, and apparently the dude was really convincing because Abu Tahir abdicated and turned the entire kingdom over to him.

    This did not work out very well, because it turned out the Mahdi was in fact a secret Zoroastrian, who immediately began instituting fire-worshipping services, burned all the Islamic holy texts, and murdering Islamic clerics and noblemen. Within a couple of weeks Abu Tahir had had enough and got some loyalists together and killed the guy.

    As bad as that was, what happened next was really crazy. Some believe Abu Tahir went mad. Some believe he wanted a big show of force against the Abassids to shore up his power. Some say he was trying to bring about the age of the Mahdi by threatening the very existence of Islam, or had lost his religion in disappointment and become a militant atheist(this is highly unlikely, but he was considered something of a mascot by some Renaissance era European atheists).

    Anyway, what happened was Abu Tahir took a bunch of his men and pretended to be pilgrims, and they infiltrated Mecca, slaughtered 30,000 pilgrims, desecratred the Well of Zamzam by filling it with corpses, and stole the holiest relic of Islam, Black Stone of the Kaaba. The Qarmatians held the stone for over 20 years, and legend has it that Abu Tahir urinated on it every day for the rest of his life, until 14 years later he died after he was spontaneously eaten by worms. This may be somewhat questionable, as the Qarmatians did build a mosque to hold the stone and encouraged pilgrims to make pilgrimages to see it (not surprisingly there were very few takers).

    Regardless, 14 years later Abu Tahir died at the ripe old age of 38, and a few years later his successors returned the stone back to the Abbasids in exchange for some cash and a promise of non-retribution, probably figuring that you can only get away with shit for so long. By this point several of the original millennialist prophecies of the Qarmatians had failed to come to pass and the sect itself had been largely discredited and the Qarmatian state petered along for a few more decades before getting overthrown by other local powers, thus ending the saga of that time some crazy doomsday cultists stole the holiest relic of one of the largest faiths in the world.

    How the hell do you steal the Kaaba? That's a really, really big rock! Not exactly like you can just grab it and run!

    Different rock, it's inset in the Kaaba. (And now cemented in place apparently)

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Monwyn wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    It makes sense, I mean if all it took to dissuade people of their beliefs, either in prophecy or anything else, was cold reality and the failings of a prophecy to come to pass, most religions wouldn’t survive, let alone cults

    On top of that, a "failed" prophecy to "true believers" means they clearly just didn't believe hard enough and thus have to double-down on believing in order to get the really serious for-real truth right. On top of that, you've got the people who just can't accept the idea they've wasted their time, so they've also got to double down on believing so they can also get the truth that proves they've not been total suckers.

    There's an interesting book called "A Brief History of the End of the World" all about various groups who anticipated the apocalypse (the covered groups are mostly, but not entirely, Christian in origin).

    Of particular interest is the Christian cult that decided when the rest of humanity had not perished as they'd anticipated that God must have intended for them them to wipe out all the rest of humankind themselves.

    They obviously did not succeed.

    That made me think of the Qarmatians.

    The Qarmatians were a somewhat obscure millennialist offshoot sect of Shia Islam that managed to start a thessalocracy that basically consisted of a ring of cities around the Persian gulf. The Qarmatians believed that a the Mahdi, a messianic figure, would lead humanity to a new utopian era. Like many Christian millenial cults, they had an almost socialist/communist utopian way of internal living. They unfortunately supported this through slave trading and piracy though.

    Anyway, after a few years of just being a normal slave trading and bandit kingdom with a few interestingly off-beat beliefs even by the standards of the time, a king named Abu Tahir al-Jannabi took over. Early in his reign he conducted a raid into Iraq, sacked the outskirts of Kufa, and freed a religious prisoner who he believed to be the Mahdi. Abu Tahir took this guy back to their capital in Bahrain, and apparently the dude was really convincing because Abu Tahir abdicated and turned the entire kingdom over to him.

    This did not work out very well, because it turned out the Mahdi was in fact a secret Zoroastrian, who immediately began instituting fire-worshipping services, burned all the Islamic holy texts, and murdering Islamic clerics and noblemen. Within a couple of weeks Abu Tahir had had enough and got some loyalists together and killed the guy.

    As bad as that was, what happened next was really crazy. Some believe Abu Tahir went mad. Some believe he wanted a big show of force against the Abassids to shore up his power. Some say he was trying to bring about the age of the Mahdi by threatening the very existence of Islam, or had lost his religion in disappointment and become a militant atheist(this is highly unlikely, but he was considered something of a mascot by some Renaissance era European atheists).

    Anyway, what happened was Abu Tahir took a bunch of his men and pretended to be pilgrims, and they infiltrated Mecca, slaughtered 30,000 pilgrims, desecratred the Well of Zamzam by filling it with corpses, and stole the holiest relic of Islam, Black Stone of the Kaaba. The Qarmatians held the stone for over 20 years, and legend has it that Abu Tahir urinated on it every day for the rest of his life, until 14 years later he died after he was spontaneously eaten by worms. This may be somewhat questionable, as the Qarmatians did build a mosque to hold the stone and encouraged pilgrims to make pilgrimages to see it (not surprisingly there were very few takers).

    Regardless, 14 years later Abu Tahir died at the ripe old age of 38, and a few years later his successors returned the stone back to the Abbasids in exchange for some cash and a promise of non-retribution, probably figuring that you can only get away with shit for so long. By this point several of the original millennialist prophecies of the Qarmatians had failed to come to pass and the sect itself had been largely discredited and the Qarmatian state petered along for a few more decades before getting overthrown by other local powers, thus ending the saga of that time some crazy doomsday cultists stole the holiest relic of one of the largest faiths in the world.

    How the hell do you steal the Kaaba? That's a really, really big rock! Not exactly like you can just grab it and run!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone


    It’s actually a smallish stone, probably a meteorite. The big black cube is just to contain it.

  • GyralGyral Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Less about the tax and more about not planting annoying invasive plants.

    Or throwing them out so they sprout in some landfill somewhere.
    Yeah the real dick move here is putting morning glories in there. We had some in our back yard once and I spent multiple years trying to get rid of them without scorch-earthing the rest of the yard.

    Might as well add kudzu to the packets.

    Gyral on
    25t9pjnmqicf.jpg
    maraji
  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    edited August 2020


    Super, super good thread from a NYT tech columnist about how Facebook spreads QAnon and can't really ban it at this point (even if they want to)

    Eddy on
    "and the morning stars I have seen
    and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    A huge chemical explosion rocket Beirut today, and as per usual the "it's a nuke" crowd are out in force.

    Nuclear explosions, even small ones near the fission floor like the Davy Crockett (and this explosion had an estimated yield of over 2kt, which wouldn't be a small nuke - multi megaton monsters were mostly a testing/national dick waving thing than real weapons) have four aspects, without all four it just isn't a nuke:

    1. An intense flash of white light. 1000 tons of TNT explodes with more kinetic force than a 1 kiloton nuke because much of a nuke's yield is in radiation (ionizing, neutron, and electromagnetic). Most cameras simply can't film them, it's too bright for film or CCDs without special optics.
    2. Electromagnetic pulse that severely interferes with any unhardened electronics, long conductors like a power grid, and in many cases even hardened electronics will still fail immediately (but aren't destroyed). Simple version if a video is shot with a civilian digital camera it's not a nuke.
    3. Scintillation. Atoms in the air are ionized and some will be struck by alpha particles or neutrons, transmuting them to unstable radioisotopes, most of which decay back down in the seconds or minutes following the explosion. This creates an eerie ambient glow that looks so unreal Hollywood intentionally leaves it out because it while more accurate it tends to break suspension of disbelief because it looks fake to most people.
    4. Lastly and most importantly radiation like a motherfucker. Even if every government clams the fuck up there's a lot more people with radiation detectors for lots of reasons, and they will detect this quickly.

    Hevach on
    Forarspool32GiantGeek2020Moridin889Gnome-Interruptusmaraji
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Yeah, we wouldn't have aaaaaany of this footage relatively close to the explosion if it was a nuke. The area would be immensely more fucked than it is now, since the power grid would be blown, communications shot, and all almost local vehicles would probably be dead as well.

    No fucking clue why the conspiracy idiots proclaiming "nuke" think a mushroom cloud is unique to nukes. Any explosion big enough makes a mushroom clouds, nukes just make really really big mushroom clouds.

  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    Mushroom cloud = nuke to most people.

    BloodySlothspool32GiantGeek2020Moridin889Gnome-InterruptusElvenshaemarajifurlionA Kobold's Kobold
  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    If it was actually a nuke that went off, a lot of eye witnesses wouldn't have eyes right now.

    VuIBhrs.png
    OrcazagdrobKayne Red RobeGiantGeek2020Moridin889furlionmanwiththemachinegunElvenshaemarajiA Kobold's Kobold
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    If it was actually a nuke that went off, a lot of eye witnesses wouldn't have eyes right now.

    I'm surprised some of them that do, do. Some of those videos were *very* close but end with the filmer standing up.

    GiantGeek2020Doodmann
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    I mean it was like.. What, 2.4 tons of ammonium nitrate?

    That reaches into the yields of smaller nukes as far as explosive destruction is concerned. But yeah, the cloud is a function of the power of the explosion, not its type..

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    I mean it was like.. What, 2.4 tons of ammonium nitrate?

    That reaches into the yields of smaller nukes as far as explosive destruction is concerned. But yeah, the cloud is a function of the power of the explosion, not its type..

    A lot more than 2.4 tons, it was 2750 tons of ammonium nitrate according to the Lebanese government. So 2.7 Kilotones if you count it like that.

    I have seen footage of the explosion taken from a high rise several kilometers away. You see concrete buildings get ripped apart like they where made of matchsticks. From a pure destructive
    perspective it gives a very good impression of a nuke.

    (Edit; Its not though, you can see the brown smoke which is a clear indicator that something explosive is burning).

    Kipling217 on
    Communicating from the last of the Babylon Stations.
    Orca
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    A huge chemical explosion rocket Beirut today, and as per usual the "it's a nuke" crowd are out in force.

    Nuclear explosions, even small ones near the fission floor like the Davy Crockett (and this explosion had an estimated yield of over 2kt, which wouldn't be a small nuke - multi megaton monsters were mostly a testing/national dick waving thing than real weapons) have four aspects, without all four it just isn't a nuke:

    1. An intense flash of white light. 1000 tons of TNT explodes with more kinetic force than a 1 kiloton nuke because much of a nuke's yield is in radiation (ionizing, neutron, and electromagnetic). Most cameras simply can't film them, it's too bright for film or CCDs without special optics.
    2. Electromagnetic pulse that severely interferes with any unhardened electronics, long conductors like a power grid, and in many cases even hardened electronics will still fail immediately (but aren't destroyed). Simple version if a video is shot with a civilian digital camera it's not a nuke.
    3. Scintillation. Atoms in the air are ionized and some will be struck by alpha particles or neutrons, transmuting them to unstable radioisotopes, most of which decay back down in the seconds or minutes following the explosion. This creates an eerie ambient glow that looks so unreal Hollywood intentionally leaves it out because it while more accurate it tends to break suspension of disbelief because it looks fake to most people.
    4. Lastly and most importantly radiation like a motherfucker. Even if every government clams the fuck up there's a lot more people with radiation detectors for lots of reasons, and they will detect this quickly.

    Do you have a link or something that shows that kind of scintillation effect? I'd like to know how that looks like

    ArmorocDark Raven Xspool32Moridin889furlion
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    A huge chemical explosion rocket Beirut today, and as per usual the "it's a nuke" crowd are out in force.

    Nuclear explosions, even small ones near the fission floor like the Davy Crockett (and this explosion had an estimated yield of over 2kt, which wouldn't be a small nuke - multi megaton monsters were mostly a testing/national dick waving thing than real weapons) have four aspects, without all four it just isn't a nuke:

    1. An intense flash of white light. 1000 tons of TNT explodes with more kinetic force than a 1 kiloton nuke because much of a nuke's yield is in radiation (ionizing, neutron, and electromagnetic). Most cameras simply can't film them, it's too bright for film or CCDs without special optics.
    2. Electromagnetic pulse that severely interferes with any unhardened electronics, long conductors like a power grid, and in many cases even hardened electronics will still fail immediately (but aren't destroyed). Simple version if a video is shot with a civilian digital camera it's not a nuke.
    3. Scintillation. Atoms in the air are ionized and some will be struck by alpha particles or neutrons, transmuting them to unstable radioisotopes, most of which decay back down in the seconds or minutes following the explosion. This creates an eerie ambient glow that looks so unreal Hollywood intentionally leaves it out because it while more accurate it tends to break suspension of disbelief because it looks fake to most people.
    4. Lastly and most importantly radiation like a motherfucker. Even if every government clams the fuck up there's a lot more people with radiation detectors for lots of reasons, and they will detect this quickly.

    Do you have a link or something that shows that kind of scintillation effect? I'd like to know how that looks like

  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    Good news everyone! I looked up scintillation and got a bunch of conspiracy theories!
    https://yemenwatch.net/essay.php?id=432&cid=123&english=1
    ["]Israel["] nuked Yemen, period. This is hard fact that has been 100% confirmed.

    By now, every VT reader will be aware that ["]Israel["] dropped a neutron bomb on Yemen on behalf of their Saudi allies. As well as the readers of VT, a billion Arabs also know this truth, every Arabic media outlet picked up the VT story as have the Russian outlets Pravda, Russia Today and Sputnik News. This story is too big to die, it is worldwide.

    ["]Israel["] nuked Yemen, period. This is hard fact that has been 100% confirmed.

    Just watch the video, the scintillating pixels are caused by particles from the nuclear explosion hitting the camera’s sensor, there can be no other explanation; note the white hot ball of plasma seen briefly before the huge detonation.

    The camera never lies
    https://factcheck.afp.com/no-video-does-not-show-nuclear-weapon-being-used-yemen
    A Facebook post shares a video of a huge explosion followed by the formation of a mushroom-shaped cloud and claims it was the result of a “tactical nuclear bomb” targeting civilian homes in Yemen. The explosion was actually the result of a 2015 airstrike using conventional weapons by the Saudi-led military coalition in Yemen's capital Sanaa.
    The April 20, 2015 attack set off a huge blast after reportedly hitting an ammunition dump, which shook the ground and damaged homes nearby.

    https://criticalbelievers.proboards.com/thread/19734/confirmation-tianjin-nuked
    Confirmation Tianjin Was Nuked

    Months ago a devastating explosion took place in the port city of Tianjin, China. Official reports claimed a chemical storage facility had caught fire and exploded. Mobile phone footage taken by residents showed an enormous blast and fireball.We were immediately suspicious, such huge explosions have to be viewed with suspicion these days when tactical nuclear weapons can and are used with alarming frequency – 9-11, The Khobar Towers, the Haiti Earthquake and most recently, air dropped on Yemen.
    The mobile phone as radiation detector

    The key clue that allowed us to identify the use of a nuke in Yemen was the presence of scintillating pixels – white dots that flashed on and off briefly in the mobile phone videos of the explosion. The CCD imaging sensor within the camera phone is being struck by radiation thus causing a pixel to overload and appear white; in this way a mobile phone can serve double duty as a crude but effective radiation detector.
    When the Tianjin blast occurred I immediately looked at the mobile phone footage of the blast and tried to find scintillating pixels; I couldn’t find any, but the huge white hot fireball and sheer size of the blast effect apparent in the footage (shaken buildings, breaking windows etc.) certainly didn’t feel like a conventional explosion to my relatively untrained eyes.
    So you have to look at the white out in the centre of the photo. This is where the brightness is so great that it overloads the ccd pickup chip causing a clipping effect. The fact that the fireball was whited out or clipped indicates that the colour temperature was over 4,000 degrees C. Only achievable in a nuclear blast. The cameras auto gain circuit clips the video level for being too bright so you get a white out on the screen."

    No scintillation but a clear piece of evidence indicating a nuclear explosion in the form of the huge white fireball – once again, mobile phone footage proves useful in deciphering the truth.

    DarkPrimusfurlion
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    The Tianjan "nuke"

    The Yemen "nuke"


    People have little understanding of what a nuke does as the fallout is the scary part not the explosion.

    This was a ammo dump in the Ukraine that was hit in 2017

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Yeah as a rule nukes don’t have small primary explosions and massive huge secondary explosions. Thats usually a sign of explosive material stored on site igniting from fires.

    Also if you have to speculate as to whether something was a nuclear explosion it wasn’t. Nuclear weapons leave no room for doubt.

    Jealous Deva on
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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    Good news everyone! I looked up scintillation and got a bunch of conspiracy theories!
    (A bunch of stuff showing that conspiracy theorists know fuck-all about what scintillation means.)
    It never ceases to amaze me that human ignorance is also so dang stubborn at refusing to be proven wrong.

    Ninja Snarl P on
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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    2400 tons.
    honovere wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    A huge chemical explosion rocket Beirut today, and as per usual the "it's a nuke" crowd are out in force.

    Nuclear explosions, even small ones near the fission floor like the Davy Crockett (and this explosion had an estimated yield of over 2kt, which wouldn't be a small nuke - multi megaton monsters were mostly a testing/national dick waving thing than real weapons) have four aspects, without all four it just isn't a nuke:

    1. An intense flash of white light. 1000 tons of TNT explodes with more kinetic force than a 1 kiloton nuke because much of a nuke's yield is in radiation (ionizing, neutron, and electromagnetic). Most cameras simply can't film them, it's too bright for film or CCDs without special optics.
    2. Electromagnetic pulse that severely interferes with any unhardened electronics, long conductors like a power grid, and in many cases even hardened electronics will still fail immediately (but aren't destroyed). Simple version if a video is shot with a civilian digital camera it's not a nuke.
    3. Scintillation. Atoms in the air are ionized and some will be struck by alpha particles or neutrons, transmuting them to unstable radioisotopes, most of which decay back down in the seconds or minutes following the explosion. This creates an eerie ambient glow that looks so unreal Hollywood intentionally leaves it out because it while more accurate it tends to break suspension of disbelief because it looks fake to most people.
    4. Lastly and most importantly radiation like a motherfucker. Even if every government clams the fuck up there's a lot more people with radiation detectors for lots of reasons, and they will detect this quickly.

    Do you have a link or something that shows that kind of scintillation effect? I'd like to know how that looks like



    The Upshot Knothole (not every test got a badass name like Starfish Prime) test is I think the best one for it, one of the few low yield tests filmed in color from close range. This particular video is especially good because after the explosion it cuts back to before it's fired, you can see the entire landscape was dimmer before the test than after the fireball faded, an eerie bluish light lingers over everything.

    I don't know of any above ground night tests filmed in color, those would be much better if any exist, eyewitnesses have always defined it as much more distinctive than film makes it.

    You can also compare the fireball itself. That flash of light from a nuke lasts impossibly long, nothing else is like it. Those close videos wouldn't have seen the shockwave coming because they'd still be blinded by the flash when it overtook them.

    Hevach on
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  • AimAim Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    If it was actually a nuke that went off, a lot of eye witnesses wouldn't have eyes right now.

    I'm surprised some of them that do, do. Some of those videos were *very* close but end with the filmer standing up.

    One upside of this being an accidental explosion is that it happened close to the ground, so a lot of the blast is directed upwards/ dampened by the first obstacles it hits. Nukes as delivered by bomber/icbm are set to go off above ground to maximize the reach of the blast.

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  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Hevach wrote: »
    2400 tons.
    honovere wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    A huge chemical explosion rocket Beirut today, and as per usual the "it's a nuke" crowd are out in force.

    Nuclear explosions, even small ones near the fission floor like the Davy Crockett (and this explosion had an estimated yield of over 2kt, which wouldn't be a small nuke - multi megaton monsters were mostly a testing/national dick waving thing than real weapons) have four aspects, without all four it just isn't a nuke:

    1. An intense flash of white light. 1000 tons of TNT explodes with more kinetic force than a 1 kiloton nuke because much of a nuke's yield is in radiation (ionizing, neutron, and electromagnetic). Most cameras simply can't film them, it's too bright for film or CCDs without special optics.
    2. Electromagnetic pulse that severely interferes with any unhardened electronics, long conductors like a power grid, and in many cases even hardened electronics will still fail immediately (but aren't destroyed). Simple version if a video is shot with a civilian digital camera it's not a nuke.
    3. Scintillation. Atoms in the air are ionized and some will be struck by alpha particles or neutrons, transmuting them to unstable radioisotopes, most of which decay back down in the seconds or minutes following the explosion. This creates an eerie ambient glow that looks so unreal Hollywood intentionally leaves it out because it while more accurate it tends to break suspension of disbelief because it looks fake to most people.
    4. Lastly and most importantly radiation like a motherfucker. Even if every government clams the fuck up there's a lot more people with radiation detectors for lots of reasons, and they will detect this quickly.

    Do you have a link or something that shows that kind of scintillation effect? I'd like to know how that looks like



    The Upshot Knothole (not every test got a badass name like Starfish Prime) test is I think the best one for it, one of the few low yield tests filmed in color from close range. This particular video is especially good because after the explosion it cuts back to before it's fired, you can see the entire landscape was dimmer before the test than after the fireball faded, an eerie bluish light lingers over everything.

    I don't know of any above ground night tests filmed in color, those would be much better if any exist, eyewitnesses have always defined it as much more distinctive than film makes it.

    You can also compare the fireball itself. That flash of light from a nuke lasts impossibly long, nothing else is like it. Those close videos wouldn't have seen the shockwave coming because they'd still be blinded by the flash when it overtook them.

    So it's almost like someone cranked up the saturation?

    Doodmann on
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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited August 2020


    Thread has some investigation below it, but... That picture basically sums up this explosion. Close to 3,000 tons of ammonium nitrate fertilizer stored in literally the most improper way ammonium nitrate could ever be stored... In the same warehouse as fireworks.

    The Lebanese government was very quick to say the explosion was due to improperly stored materials, because apparently they'd been investigating it already. The wheels of bureaucracy move slower than a supersonic shockwave, but when agents just told a warehouse, "This shit's going to level half the city," and then some shit levels half the city, you connect the dots awful fucking quick.

    Compare those dirty, leaking tarp bags to Newcastle's ammonium nitrate stockpile, one of the largest in the world. Can you spot the difference?

    Hevach on
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  • Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    I read an article today reporting that Alex Jones was launching a turn-based strategy game called "Infowars Tactics" and did not immediately twig that it was satire because *gestures vaguely at everything*

    Is there a "no satire" rule in here or can I post the article?

    Space.
    zagdrob
  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Aim wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    If it was actually a nuke that went off, a lot of eye witnesses wouldn't have eyes right now.

    I'm surprised some of them that do, do. Some of those videos were *very* close but end with the filmer standing up.

    One upside of this being an accidental explosion is that it happened close to the ground, so a lot of the blast is directed upwards/ dampened by the first obstacles it hits. Nukes as delivered by bomber/icbm are set to go off above ground to maximize the reach of the blast.

    Apparently the Khobar Towers saving Grace's (still 500ish dead) was basic Jersey barriers between the truck bomb and the building. Not only does a good chunk of the blast get disrupted upward by a minor obstacle, but it disrupts the rest of the charge.

    Its sorta kinda the principle of modern tank armor, that the shaped charges and jets can get disrupted by chaotic forces as they break through brittle but disruptive materials.

  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    Mr Ray wrote: »
    I read an article today reporting that Alex Jones was launching a turn-based strategy game called "Infowars Tactics" and did not immediately twig that it was satire because *gestures vaguely at everything*

    Is there a "no satire" rule in here or can I post the article?

    Is it bad that there's such a lack of games in the tactics genre that my first question would be " but how's the gameplay"

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  • Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    Mr Ray wrote: »
    I read an article today reporting that Alex Jones was launching a turn-based strategy game called "Infowars Tactics" and did not immediately twig that it was satire because *gestures vaguely at everything*

    Is there a "no satire" rule in here or can I post the article?

    Is it bad that there's such a lack of games in the tactics genre that my first question would be " but how's the gameplay"

    As an XCOM fan I was morbidly curious.

    Anyway here's the article, I guess I can take it down if its not allowed but I figure Alex Jones is always on topic in the conspiracy thread:

    https://thehardtimes.net/harddrive/alex-jones-announces-infowars-tactics/
    DALLAS, Texas — Claiming that the new game would revolutionize the long running InfoWars franchise, far-right radio host and conspiracy theorist Alex Jones unveiled a trailer and early details for a new tactics game set in the InfoWars universe in a surprise stream on the InfoWars website Tuesday morning.

    “InfoWars Tactics is a turn-based tactical RPG that takes place 10 years before the first episode of InfoWars, placing you in control of a DMT-enhanced supersoldier on the front lines of the war for your mind,” said Jones, standing on a soundstage in front of a large LCD screen displaying pulsating graphics of the game’s placeholder logo. “You’ll need to filtrate your own water, collect Gorilla Mind pills and dodge gay bombs to rise to the top of the InfoWars Army and reveal the secrets of the Machine Elves and the Fifth Dimension.”

    Jones added that in addition to a robust story mode, InfoWars Tactics will include various optional quest lines and hundreds of collectible false flags and non-player crisis actors to interact with throughout the game’s world.

    “Just like in the real world — if you can even call our world ‘real’ — you won’t be able to see the game’s true ending unless you uncover every single false flag that the government has placed to deceive you,” Jones said. “Will the game’s true ending contain new information about the origins of Pizzagate and Seth Rich? That’s something you’ll only be able to find out when InfoWars Tactics launches this holiday season.”

    At the conclusion of the presentation, Jones announced that Infowars Tactics would be released exclusively on the InfoWars website after he’d been deplatformed from Steam and the Epic Games Store.

    Space.
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  • PhotosaurusPhotosaurus Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    am dumb, didn't read.

    Photosaurus on
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  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    I'd never beat that game, just constantly diving into the paths of the gay bombs

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  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    SE++ is having an argument about the worst president and it reminded me of my conspiracy theory.

    William Henry Harrison is actually the worst president we would have ever had but was killed by time travelers.

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    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
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  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Doodmann wrote: »
    SE++ is having an argument about the worst president and it reminded me of my conspiracy theory.

    William Henry Harrison is actually the worst president we would have ever had but was killed by time travelers.

    :heartbeat:

    Expect a PM from me if I ever run into someone looking to make a movie that strikes a balance between Safety Not Guaranteed and FAQ About Time Travel, but hasn't settled on an idea for a central caper.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx I look for scarlet and you look for ultraviolet Registered User regular
    5z1u5vylaycm.png

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I did a spit take on the fifth line there

    What

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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx I look for scarlet and you look for ultraviolet Registered User regular
    I did a spit take on the fifth line there

    What

    I assume "pizzagate" connection.

    This shit is layers and layers of bruh.

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