Star Trek: Lower Decks trailer is out. SPOILERS in effect!

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  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    edited October 11
    I dunno, she really is kind of a Mary Sue, or at least has a lot of the same traits. And it was really starting to drag the first few episodes. But now, she's kind of a well written one, if that makes sense. They've shown enough of her neurosis now anyways. But yeah, stuff like the end of episode 2 is really... ehh.

    Final episode spoilers:
    Though I have to say... while I personally have zero problem with it, the fact that she is of course best besties with Will Riker... well I can't really deny that as a bullet point for somebody who thinks she is a Mary Sue.

    Eh
    I think its more Riker is one of those Trek family friends/Cool uncle. Freeman even mocks him directly with her "being a Captian is like freeform Jazz "speech. She knows who Mariner looks up to

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Glyph wrote: »
    Yep... this feels about right.

    eurh1uycv1z2.png

    Is this a real thing?

    I want it to be a real thing.

    What is this thing?

  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    edited October 11
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    A Mary Sue is an authorial wish-fulfilliment character. Like, the term began with a woman named Mary Sue Whatever who literally wrote a story with an Ensign Mary Sue who kissed all the cute boys on the ship and was super great and everyone loved her, because the author wants to smooch all the cute people on the ship and have everyone love them. The term has nothing to do with "power levels" or any of that other video game nonsense.

    im gonna try to reply to the main argument of your post later, but simply as a point of info: the original "Ensign Mary Sue" story from 1973 was a parody of bad trek fanfiction, written by a woman who wanted to call attention to the low quality of many such pieces submitted to fanzines.

    I'm not saying this because I think it proves anything you said wrong - it's immaterial to your argument - I just wanted to point it out because I see this mistake a lot. Given the gendered language inherent to the "Sue" cliche I think its important to remember that the creator of Ensign Mary Sue was a woman making fun of bad writing, not an actual bad writer.

    Dongs Galore on
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  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    .
    MorganV wrote: »
    Glyph wrote: »
    Yep... this feels about right.

    eurh1uycv1z2.png

    Is this a real thing?

    I want it to be a real thing.

    What is this thing?
    Star Trek Online, which has a bridge officer system that kinda works out like Pokémon. Dunno if Beckett Mariner is an actual STO officer that you can collect or if that is a lovely photoshop.

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  • SneaksSneaks Registered User regular
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    Star Trek Online, which has a bridge officer system that kinda works out like Pokémon. Dunno if Beckett Mariner is an actual STO officer that you can collect or if that is a lovely photoshop.

    It’s legit; all four main Lower Deckers were given out for free when the show started airing.

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  • GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    edited October 11
    I dunno, she really is kind of a Mary Sue, or at least has a lot of the same traits. And it was really starting to drag the first few episodes. But now, she's kind of a well written one, if that makes sense. They've shown enough of her neurosis now anyways. But yeah, stuff like the end of episode 2 is really... ehh.

    Final episode spoilers:
    Though I have to say... while I personally have zero problem with it, the fact that she is of course best besties with Will Riker... well I can't really deny that as a bullet point for somebody who thinks she is a Mary Sue.

    I think there may be some confusion about Mariner's relationship with him. My impression was actually
    ...that Riker was like a cool uncle to Mariner. The episode even went out of its way to show he considered himself a mentor to her mom, who herself was apparently a Boimler type of by-the-book officer who never made it to "legendary captain" status. Add the fact that Mariner's own dad is an admiral choosing to command from a boring science vessel (he's even wearing the same non-frontline uniforms as the Cali/Parliament-class captains) and it's clear why Mariner latched onto Will as a role model.

    I mean they weren't exactly subtle about it.
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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    LD is great so far, I'm at episode 6.

    My girlfriend also loves it, and she usually doesn't care about star trek

    Same. My girlfriend doesn't care about Trek or sci-fi in general, but LD is really growing on her. It does help though that she's an animation nerd.

    Also, episode 3 allowed me to tell her about Miles O'Brian, so I'm happy.

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  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    LD is great so far, I'm at episode 6.

    My girlfriend also loves it, and she usually doesn't care about star trek

    Same. My girlfriend doesn't care about Trek or sci-fi in general, but LD is really growing on her. It does help though that she's an animation nerd.

    Also, episode 3 allowed me to tell her about Miles O'Brian, so I'm happy.

    That single joke convinced me to give the show a shot.

    I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    LD is great so far, I'm at episode 6.

    My girlfriend also loves it, and she usually doesn't care about star trek

    Same. My girlfriend doesn't care about Trek or sci-fi in general, but LD is really growing on her. It does help though that she's an animation nerd.

    Also, episode 3 allowed me to tell her about Miles O'Brian, so I'm happy.

    That single joke convinced me to give the show a shot.

    what was the joke again?

    kFJhXwE.jpg
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    LD is great so far, I'm at episode 6.

    My girlfriend also loves it, and she usually doesn't care about star trek

    Same. My girlfriend doesn't care about Trek or sci-fi in general, but LD is really growing on her. It does help though that she's an animation nerd.

    Also, episode 3 allowed me to tell her about Miles O'Brian, so I'm happy.

    That single joke convinced me to give the show a shot.

    what was the joke again?
    Future kids were learning about the Boimler Effect, then the teacher said, "And now we will learn about the most important Starfleet officer of all time... Chief Miles O'Brien."

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited October 12
    EDIT: beated :(

    Commander Zoom on
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  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    I mean... The show is a comedy though so Ya sure she's besties but specifically for the gag.

    You're either gonna be ok with that or bounce off it.

    After 3 seasons of dark nihilistic trek I'm super down with lower decks and the light hearted goofs it exudes.

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    I came across this during my job hunt, for the aspiring writers in this thread, Screen Rant is hiring a freelance entry level Star Trek writer:

    https://valnetfreelance.applytojob.com/apply/iV6qfo69JR/

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  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Just watched the rest of the first season.

    Now that's some damn good TV.

    Especially the last two episodes were absolutely amazing

    And you actually cared about the people because you got to know them, too!

    Just great.

    Season 1 Ep 10
    When that blue dot was shown to be approaching, I knew it was the Titan because they talked about it earlier, and it was awesome

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  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Episode 9
    When it was a holodeck thing, I thought it would be useless, but they actually managed to make a good holodeck episode with meaning for the characters and their personal, and professional development

    Really surprised how good this show got there..

    It's like 10 episodes a 25 minutes and already I feel like I know more and care about more about of the crew of the Cerritos than the Discovery..

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  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Also, Ep 9.

    I laughed my ass off in this scene:

    As it all got more outrageous from scene to scene.. Just magnificent!

    kFJhXwE.jpg
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  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    Episode 9 was some grade-A holodeck usage.

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  • SneaksSneaks Registered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    Episode 9 was some grade-A holodeck usage.
    Also notable because the holodeck…
    …works perfectly the entire time.

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  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular

    I’ve decided that I see Lowers Decks as basically the story of the Cerritos as told to a bunch of ensigns by the practically legendary retired Admirals Mariner and Boimler, who are both getting increasingly drunk at a Ferangi bar on a Deep Space station as they tell their stories. The basic events happened and are all on record, but the specifics. . . well, hey man, you weren’t there, are you calling a pair of highly decorated admirals liars?


    It’s important to remember the true meaning of Christmas: ghosts terrorizing rich people in the middle of the night to make them pay their employees more.
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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    I’ve decided that I see Lowers Decks as basically the story of the Cerritos as told to a bunch of ensigns by the practically legendary retired Admirals Mariner and Boimler, who are both getting increasingly drunk at a Ferangi bar on a Deep Space station as they tell their stories. The basic events happened and are all on record, but the specifics. . . well, hey man, you weren’t there, are you calling a pair of highly decorated admirals liars?

    You know, that'd be a good premise for a show. I know some shows have done this as an episode, telling the same story through multiple unreliable narrators.

    But having the show be almost nothing but "flashbacks" from two unreliable narrators, sometimes arguing over a specific disagreement of memories, could make for some great comedic writing.

    HevachAeolusdallasShadowhope
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited October 11
    There was a book (maybe a series?) called The Captain's Table. The premise was a special interdimensional bar where any Starfleet captain could access, kind of like the Restaurant at the End of the Universe, you never know who you'll run into past/present/future. You didn't have to worry about temporal stuff because reasons and the price to get a drink was a story.

    So it was basically an anthology of the show captains telling episodes or other books through their own eyes long after the fact, distorted by their own personalities and inflated by an environment of one-upsmanship. Basically familiar stories but almost every teller took more credit, punched more bad guys, and had way more lovers than the "official" record would reflect.

    Edit: had to Google for some details, and I understate just how distorted the stories could get to an extent. One of the later books in the series had a piss drunk Archer tell a story about how he and Porthos the Great (legendary Aldebaranian spy dog) collapsed a mighty empire.

    Hevach on
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  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    A Mary Sue is an authorial wish-fulfilliment character. Like, the term began with a woman named Mary Sue Whatever who literally wrote a story with an Ensign Mary Sue who kissed all the cute boys on the ship and was super great and everyone loved her, because the author wants to smooch all the cute people on the ship and have everyone love them. The term has nothing to do with "power levels" or any of that other video game nonsense.

    im gonna try to reply to the main argument of your post later, but simply as a point of info: the original "Ensign Mary Sue" story from 1973 was a parody of bad trek fanfiction, written by a woman who wanted to call attention to the low quality of many such pieces submitted to fanzines.

    I'm not saying this because I think it proves anything you said wrong - it's immaterial to your argument - I just wanted to point it out because I see this mistake a lot. Given the gendered language inherent to the "Sue" cliche I think its important to remember that the creator of Ensign Mary Sue was a woman making fun of bad writing, not an actual bad writer.

    Oh, huh! I didn't know this. I first encountered the term in a glossary of common science-fiction writing mistakes from the 90s that explained its origins but left out this wrinkle.

    This just kind of reinforces my feeling that it's a bad term people should avoid. It makes sense in fanfic circles but when we're talking actual commercially released work by many people it just becomes nonsense. And that's even before getting into how it's been warped and twisted by repetition, Telephone-style, and how ugly it's become in the mouths of furious grody Youtubers.

    rRwz9.gif
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  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    Ok. Mariner got a lot better by the last episode. I was too harsh earlier, but I still think she's not a particularly well thought out character for most of the first season. That final episode really worked though.

  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    I agree that Mary Sue is not the right word for Mariner (I never called her that anyway), but she does annoy me and I don't like the character.
    That said, episodes 9 and 10 were very good

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  • madparrotmadparrot Registered User regular
    I agree that Mary Sue is not the right word for Mariner (I never called her that anyway), but she does annoy me and I don't like the character.
    That said, episodes 9 and 10 were very good

    I think that's kind of the idea (and another reason she isn't really a Mary Sue, since such characters are intended to be flawlessly lovable). She is a female fratboy, selfish and abrasive, drawn to alphas (but only if they don't try to be the boss of her), and only given to heroics when either pressed into it or when she sees it as an opportunity to /flex. Trying to think of an analogous character, but all I can come up with is Sam from Cheers, but that's imprecise.

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    madparrot wrote: »
    I agree that Mary Sue is not the right word for Mariner (I never called her that anyway), but she does annoy me and I don't like the character.
    That said, episodes 9 and 10 were very good

    I think that's kind of the idea (and another reason she isn't really a Mary Sue, since such characters are intended to be flawlessly lovable). She is a female fratboy, selfish and abrasive, drawn to alphas (but only if they don't try to be the boss of her), and only given to heroics when either pressed into it or when she sees it as an opportunity to /flex. Trying to think of an analogous character, but all I can come up with is Sam from Cheers, but that's imprecise.

    This is a good way to put it. She's not "flawless", because the show has been telling us at every turn she clearly has some things to learn, and her belief that she *doesn't* is meant to annoy (and it fucking does annoy!)

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited October 12
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    A Mary Sue is an authorial wish-fulfilliment character. Like, the term began with a woman named Mary Sue Whatever who literally wrote a story with an Ensign Mary Sue who kissed all the cute boys on the ship and was super great and everyone loved her, because the author wants to smooch all the cute people on the ship and have everyone love them. The term has nothing to do with "power levels" or any of that other video game nonsense.

    im gonna try to reply to the main argument of your post later, but simply as a point of info: the original "Ensign Mary Sue" story from 1973 was a parody of bad trek fanfiction, written by a woman who wanted to call attention to the low quality of many such pieces submitted to fanzines.

    I'm not saying this because I think it proves anything you said wrong - it's immaterial to your argument - I just wanted to point it out because I see this mistake a lot. Given the gendered language inherent to the "Sue" cliche I think its important to remember that the creator of Ensign Mary Sue was a woman making fun of bad writing, not an actual bad writer.

    Oh, huh! I didn't know this. I first encountered the term in a glossary of common science-fiction writing mistakes from the 90s that explained its origins but left out this wrinkle.

    This just kind of reinforces my feeling that it's a bad term people should avoid. It makes sense in fanfic circles but when we're talking actual commercially released work by many people it just becomes nonsense. And that's even before getting into how it's been warped and twisted by repetition, Telephone-style, and how ugly it's become in the mouths of furious grody Youtubers.

    I generally think it's a term that would be better replaced with just saying the specific things you mean because the definition of what calling something a "mary sue" means is so unclear and inconsistent.

    shryke on
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  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    madparrot wrote: »
    I agree that Mary Sue is not the right word for Mariner (I never called her that anyway), but she does annoy me and I don't like the character.
    That said, episodes 9 and 10 were very good

    I think that's kind of the idea (and another reason she isn't really a Mary Sue, since such characters are intended to be flawlessly lovable). She is a female fratboy, selfish and abrasive, drawn to alphas (but only if they don't try to be the boss of her), and only given to heroics when either pressed into it or when she sees it as an opportunity to /flex. Trying to think of an analogous character, but all I can come up with is Sam from Cheers, but that's imprecise.

    The pseudo-arc for Turk on Scrubs is somewhere in that neighborhood as well.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

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  • MsAnthropyMsAnthropy The Lady of Pain Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm The City of FlowersRegistered User regular
    edited October 12
    shryke wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    A Mary Sue is an authorial wish-fulfilliment character. Like, the term began with a woman named Mary Sue Whatever who literally wrote a story with an Ensign Mary Sue who kissed all the cute boys on the ship and was super great and everyone loved her, because the author wants to smooch all the cute people on the ship and have everyone love them. The term has nothing to do with "power levels" or any of that other video game nonsense.

    im gonna try to reply to the main argument of your post later, but simply as a point of info: the original "Ensign Mary Sue" story from 1973 was a parody of bad trek fanfiction, written by a woman who wanted to call attention to the low quality of many such pieces submitted to fanzines.

    I'm not saying this because I think it proves anything you said wrong - it's immaterial to your argument - I just wanted to point it out because I see this mistake a lot. Given the gendered language inherent to the "Sue" cliche I think its important to remember that the creator of Ensign Mary Sue was a woman making fun of bad writing, not an actual bad writer.

    Oh, huh! I didn't know this. I first encountered the term in a glossary of common science-fiction writing mistakes from the 90s that explained its origins but left out this wrinkle.

    This just kind of reinforces my feeling that it's a bad term people should avoid. It makes sense in fanfic circles but when we're talking actual commercially released work by many people it just becomes nonsense. And that's even before getting into how it's been warped and twisted by repetition, Telephone-style, and how ugly it's become in the mouths of furious grody Youtubers.

    I generally think it's a term that would be better replaced with just saying the specific things you mean because the definition of what calling something a "mary sue" is so unclear and inconsistent.

    It doesn’t help that over the last few years the most probable definition—whether driven by conscious or unconscious biases—seems to be ‘a character with capabilities seen in plenty of cis hetero white dude characters with no problem, but is somehow completely unrealistic in anyone else’. That tends to make definitions along non-identity axes completely inconsistent.

    MsAnthropy on
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  • GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    edited October 12
    madparrot wrote: »
    She is a female fratboy, selfish and abrasive, drawn to alphas (but only if they don't try to be the boss of her), and only given to heroics when either pressed into it or when she sees it as an opportunity to /flex. Trying to think of an analogous character...

    Let me help you out there.
    cu3yf8x34yus.jpg
    bra7n9clg59f.jpg

    Glyph on
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  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    Is Star Trek Online still going? I haven't played it since like 2012. Is it a worthwhile singleplayer experience?

  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    It's still going yeah, I'm basically solo bar the odd rando in queues for events. You could probably go through the story stuff and call it a day if it doesn't grab you beyond that, stuff has changed around enough that you'd probably be best starting from a new character though.

    Oh it's also on PS4 and XBONE now but I have no idea how good those version are.

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  • madparrotmadparrot Registered User regular
    I did think of him, but there is a core of goodness in her deep down that is lacking in his character. Sam and Mariner are bombastic fratboy/girl, but they are still fundamentally good people. While Archer is just an asshole who's fun to watch precisely because he is such an unrepentant proud asshole.

    CambiataStrikor
  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    MsAnthropy wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    A Mary Sue is an authorial wish-fulfilliment character. Like, the term began with a woman named Mary Sue Whatever who literally wrote a story with an Ensign Mary Sue who kissed all the cute boys on the ship and was super great and everyone loved her, because the author wants to smooch all the cute people on the ship and have everyone love them. The term has nothing to do with "power levels" or any of that other video game nonsense.

    im gonna try to reply to the main argument of your post later, but simply as a point of info: the original "Ensign Mary Sue" story from 1973 was a parody of bad trek fanfiction, written by a woman who wanted to call attention to the low quality of many such pieces submitted to fanzines.

    I'm not saying this because I think it proves anything you said wrong - it's immaterial to your argument - I just wanted to point it out because I see this mistake a lot. Given the gendered language inherent to the "Sue" cliche I think its important to remember that the creator of Ensign Mary Sue was a woman making fun of bad writing, not an actual bad writer.

    Oh, huh! I didn't know this. I first encountered the term in a glossary of common science-fiction writing mistakes from the 90s that explained its origins but left out this wrinkle.

    This just kind of reinforces my feeling that it's a bad term people should avoid. It makes sense in fanfic circles but when we're talking actual commercially released work by many people it just becomes nonsense. And that's even before getting into how it's been warped and twisted by repetition, Telephone-style, and how ugly it's become in the mouths of furious grody Youtubers.

    I generally think it's a term that would be better replaced with just saying the specific things you mean because the definition of what calling something a "mary sue" is so unclear and inconsistent.

    It doesn’t help that over the last few years the most probable definition—whether driven by conscious or unconscious biases—seems to be ‘a character with capabilities seen in plenty of cis hetero white dude characters with no problem, but is somehow completely unrealistic in anyone else’. That tends to make definitions along non-identity axes completely inconsistent.

    I'm definitely guilty of this bias, so I try to picture the same character as a man to see how it would look. That's why I brought up the Brock Samson comparison. In Mariner's case I don't think my problem is purely rooted in my innate white guy worldview.

    As a matter of character design, similar to how she looks too young to be a veteran special forces operator, I think she also doesn't have the build to match her combat abilities. Archer, for example, is drawn ripped, and Lana Kane - the second best agent - while not ripped, is clearly toned. Brock Samson is a literal wall. (granted, Samson"s female nemsis, Molotov Cocktease, is not drawn like an athlete at all - although his female predecessor is) Mariner and Tendi have basically the same body type.
    Ransom, by contrast, is drawn in a way that matches his physical prowess, as is the Bajoran security guy.

    Granted, it's more difficult to draw cartoon women in a way that communicates raw physical strength without making them look deformed. In real life, even, female MMA fighters don't look as imposing as their male counterparts until they take their shirts off. They couldn't give Mariner the broad shoulders, height and jutting chin that Ransom has. But since they already showed us Mariner in her underwear in the very first episode, they could have given her some abs instead of making her look as unathletic as Boimler and Tendi.

    They also didn't bother to draw Mariner's scars until she needed to show them to Ransom. This might be because they hadn't yet decided she had scars, but imo it falls under the same issue of lazy character design.

  • GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    edited October 12
    Is Star Trek Online still going? I haven't played it since like 2012. Is it a worthwhile singleplayer experience?

    It's completely serviceable as a single player experience if you just want to play through the missions and see the lore expanded (which basically comes down to "What threat will the players be justified in shooting at this time?"). And as long as you don't mind navigating/avoiding the rather opaque skill system and can resist Cryptic's rather insidious monetization system that basically uses other players as mobile ads for all the best shit in the game (it's only gotten worse since the last time you played), it's probably not the worst way to kill time. And by that I mean it's at least better than Star Citizen whose players still can't even fly the ships they've bought yet.

    Cryptic won't make it easy for you though, the chances of buying something eventually is directly proportional to the time spent playing and the systems are all perfectly engineered and timed to keep players coming back and checking in as often as possible for that dopamine reward dripfeed - all while teasing you with bigger and better ships.

    Seriously, the Vengeance-class has this neat effect where armored panels will actually seal off the deflector dish during combat.
    u2kk2vxaf3kv.jpg

    Glyph on
  • PellaeonPellaeon Registered User regular
    I just went through about two months on the story stuff myself, federation to about 43, then romulan to max level. There's a decent amount of content there, though I ended up giving up at max level because some of the story missions scaled much tougher and I didn't feel like grinding endgame gear to make it easier.

    Spent literally zero dollars for the experience so I think it was well worth it and a fun way to get some star trek content. If you're starting fresh now there's tons of story content even at max level because so many campaigns have been added, though honestly I think the mid levels were the best feel of challenging but not too overwhelming.

    I wish there were a more centralized location for resources though ala wowhead, a lot of it was scouring reddit threads to figure how to fly a ship and what all the things actually do/how to make them work. The game doesn't do a very good job of that at all imo, my first character ran into a lot of brick walls whole leveling when I wasn't using/optimizing abilities because I had no idea what they were, how they worked, or how to get them. The second playthrough was a much better experience. Hope you have more of the latter

  • GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    edited October 12
    Pellaeon wrote: »
    I wish there were a more centralized location for resources though ala wowhead, a lot of it was scouring reddit threads to figure how to fly a ship and what all the things actually do/how to make them work. The game doesn't do a very good job of that at all imo, my first character ran into a lot of brick walls whole leveling when I wasn't using/optimizing abilities because I had no idea what they were, how they worked, or how to get them.

    I feel like they made the entire loot/gearing/skill point progression system as muddled as inhumanly possible so few players really know what the right build/loadout is supposed to be for any given ship or play style. Maybe the devs themselves don't really know since they're constantly throwing more ships with more stats and new abilities out there and they must know it's impossible to balance any of it even if they decided to start caring about that. There is no endgame after all, no raiding and PvP options are basically vestigial. The upside though is that the community is remarkably helpful. You're never short on people willing to share their builds and advice but even that can be overwhelming.

    Glyph on
    SnicketysnickShadowhope
  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    edited October 12
    Glyph wrote: »
    Pellaeon wrote: »
    I wish there were a more centralized location for resources though ala wowhead, a lot of it was scouring reddit threads to figure how to fly a ship and what all the things actually do/how to make them work. The game doesn't do a very good job of that at all imo, my first character ran into a lot of brick walls whole leveling when I wasn't using/optimizing abilities because I had no idea what they were, how they worked, or how to get them.

    I feel like they made the entire loot/gearing/skill point progression system as muddled as inhumanly possible so few players really know what the right build/loadout is supposed to be for any given ship or play style. Maybe the devs themselves don't really know since they're constantly throwing more ships with more stats and new abilities out there and they must know it's impossible to balance any of it even if they decided to start caring about that. There is no endgame after all, no raiding and PvP options are basically vestigial. The upside though is that the community is remarkably helpful. You're never short on people willing to share their builds and advice but even that can be overwhelming.

    In terms of "what is available" I find the wiki to be tremendous, especially for things like sets or comparing two ships etc. As for "is X good?" it's a whole other thing because often X is indeed quite good, but it's not top 1% good so it's therefore terrible in the eyes of a lot of STO folks. My dream is that there would be a streamlining of stats so +25% actually meant +25% and not like 2% at best, dump everything into one category and smush all the numbers down so it works, but that'll never happen, things have got too labyrinthine in the code there and folk would riot.

    I've gotten by by just sticking with simple stuff and not really chasing any leet dps and it's just fine for any of the content I want to do, even if all my gear is gold and I've exchanged enough dilithium to be flying a Legendary Sovereign.

    Snicketysnick on
    7qmGNt5.png
    D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
    Commander ZoomGlyph
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited October 12
    Glyph wrote: »
    Is Star Trek Online still going? I haven't played it since like 2012. Is it a worthwhile singleplayer experience?

    It's completely serviceable as a single player experience if you just want to play through the missions and see the lore expanded (which basically comes down to "What threat will the players be justified in shooting at this time?"). And as long as you don't mind navigating/avoiding the rather opaque skill system and can resist Cryptic's rather insidious monetization system that basically uses other players as mobile ads for all the best shit in the game (it's only gotten worse since the last time you played), it's probably not the worst way to kill time. And by that I mean it's at least better than Star Citizen whose players still can't even fly the ships they've bought yet.

    Cryptic won't make it easy for you though, the chances of buying something eventually is directly proportional to the time spent playing and the systems are all perfectly engineered and timed to keep players coming back and checking in as often as possible for that dopamine reward dripfeed - all while teasing you with bigger and better ships.

    Seriously, the Vengeance-class has this neat effect where armored panels will actually seal off the deflector dish during combat.
    u2kk2vxaf3kv.jpg

    Not just other players, but NPCs quite a bit, too. The flip side of the monetization is that the game is pretty easy, and while the best SHIPS are gated behind tiers of money (straight purchases, loot boxes, and special promo boxes inside of other boxes), a lot of the best GEAR is given out for free and a tricked out tier 5+ ship is going to chew through most enemies, exceptions being those Voth, Tzenkethi, and Hurq ships that have weird defensive mechanics that even the crazy future ships have to work out the hard way.

    And when I say the best gear is given out for free, I'm not kidding. The last three big events have been a War of the Worlds looking Elachi tripod walker combat pet, the Red Angel armor, and a weapon system that according to Stamets could destroy all life in every universe and which has to violate ALL the weapon bans.

    Hevach on
    SnicketysnickCommander ZoomGlyph
  • madparrotmadparrot Registered User regular
    I paid for it way back at launch, long before it went FTP. Does that give me any kind of real advantage?

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