Star Trek: Lower Decks trailer is out. SPOILERS in effect!

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  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    I'm not going to watch a one-hour-long fan-made video about a fan-made video. Can anyone summarize for me what's going on please?

    Leonard French is a copyright lawyer, not a fan. The TL:DR is that the 2 creators of Axanar are suing each other for being shitty to each other. It's kind of sad really.

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    RichypainfulPleasance
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    God, they're still around?

    CBS/Paramount were quite generous with them, IMO. The lawsuit didn't just come out of nowhere to shut them down, they were initially allowed generous terms (they could fundraise and sell merchandise, but the producers could not profit or call themselves "official" - everyone else involved could be paid, however), then more restrictive terms (no more merch, nobody involved could profit, and seriously, you're not official, stop saying you're the rightful owners of Star Trek), then quite restrictive terms but only on them (and strictly out of retaliation for being prats).

    They doubled down until they ruined a lot of fun for a lot of fans besides themselves and they deserve whatever shittiness that created between them.

    Commander ZoomJacobkoshNathrakshrykeDonnictonpainfulPleasance
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    After watching some YouTube videos that were like "look at this clip of Lower Decks and then this clip of TNG and see how it BETRAYS STAR TREK FOREVER" and being like "this seems pretty good", I binged through the season this week and it was freaking hilarious. Crisis Point was I think my favorite episode just because I love the structural meta-humor of "here are all the standard beats of a Star Trek movie presented without comment". I think by the end it does a really good job of walking the line between absurdist comedy but also just genuine and serious enough to be something that could be happening in canon.

    I just hope the next season doesn't just reset the status quo after the finale blew it up so thoroughly.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    edited October 22
    Hevach wrote: »
    God, they're still around?

    CBS/Paramount were quite generous with them, IMO. The lawsuit didn't just come out of nowhere to shut them down, they were initially allowed generous terms (they could fundraise and sell merchandise, but the producers could not profit or call themselves "official" - everyone else involved could be paid, however), then more restrictive terms (no more merch, nobody involved could profit, and seriously, you're not official, stop saying you're the rightful owners of Star Trek), then quite restrictive terms but only on them (and strictly out of retaliation for being prats).

    They doubled down until they ruined a lot of fun for a lot of fans besides themselves and they deserve whatever shittiness that created between them.

    Whaaaat? Was that the sticking point? They tried to claim ownership rights?

    I'm still kind of sad about Axanar, it looks like a genuinly cool production. I can't understand why in situations like these the IP holders don't just work something out to licence it as an official production and take a big share of someone else's work. They get paid and the creators get to use the IP. Seems like a win win.

    Casual on
    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    Winky wrote: »
    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod


    Stamps! Captains plus Spock plus basically anyone played by a British actor.

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »


    Stamps! Captains plus Spock plus basically anyone played by a British actor.

    Avery Brooks isn't British!

    Also I'm sad these aren't American stamps so I can support the Post Office while indulging fandom.

    WeaverAbsoluteZero
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Oh right he was a Commander. Leads plus British actors, then.

    Plus Spock.

    honovere
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »


    Stamps! Captains plus Spock plus basically anyone played by a British actor.

    Avery Brooks isn't British!

    Also I'm sad these aren't American stamps so I can support the Post Office while indulging fandom.

    But he was a captain.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
    chrono_travellerAbsoluteZero
  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    He gets promoted to captain!

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
    chrono_travellerNightslyrshrykePailryderShadowenAbsoluteZero
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Oh, I geddit. Captains, British, and also Spock is there.

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited October 22
    Casual wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    God, they're still around?

    CBS/Paramount were quite generous with them, IMO. The lawsuit didn't just come out of nowhere to shut them down, they were initially allowed generous terms (they could fundraise and sell merchandise, but the producers could not profit or call themselves "official" - everyone else involved could be paid, however), then more restrictive terms (no more merch, nobody involved could profit, and seriously, you're not official, stop saying you're the rightful owners of Star Trek), then quite restrictive terms but only on them (and strictly out of retaliation for being prats).

    They doubled down until they ruined a lot of fun for a lot of fans besides themselves and they deserve whatever shittiness that created between them.

    Whaaaat? Was that the sticking point? They tried to claim ownership rights?

    I'm still kind of sad about Axanar, it looks like a genuinly cool production. I can't understand why in situations like these the IP holders don't just work something out to licence it as an official production and take a big share of someone else's work. They get paid and the creators get to use the IP. Seems like a win win.

    They didn't initially claim ownership, but they claimed to be "officially licensed," which they were not. They actually had JJ Abrams on their side initially, he was lobbying CBS and Paramount to drop the lawsuit, which was why they originally were allowed to do whatever as long as they dropped the "official" label.

    When it actually got to court, they took a shit on their only ally by saying that because the JJ Abrams movie wasn't real Star Trek, that they personally were the only true custodians of the canon and basically tried "I'm out of order? No, YOU'RE out of order!" on copyright, which the judge was supremely unamused by.

    CBS was able to dictate terms WAY worse than they could have had in retaliation, and they promptly breached those terms again, leading to the rules applying to ALL fan productions, putting an end to Phase Two, Renegades, a series where people played the various pen-and-paper and miniature games on camera, and weirdest of all, a sequel to the TNG porno (a de-pornified version of which exists and is probably better than most of the other fan productions I listed).


    Basically, the sticking point wasn't any one specific thing but their refusal to believe that any kind of rules could apply to them.

    Hevach on
    override367
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Ugh, just reading that raises my blood pressure. What horrible baby men.

    It really sucks, too, because I actually enjoyed the Star Trek Continues production a lot, and the new rules make something like it effectively impossible.

    rRwz9.gif
    CambiataMancingtomNightslyrshrykeCommander ZoomMsAnthropyCroakerBC
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Axanar also was selling merch with trademarked logos. And they were trying to sidestep the whole copyright issue by claiming they weren't selling episodes but offering them for free in exchange for donations. In their own email communications, the creators freely admitted that they were trying to make a proper Star Trek production without obtaining the proper licenses.

    If CBS didn't come down on them like a ton of bricks, they could have lost their trademark.

    steam_sig.png
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  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    edited October 22
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    After watching some YouTube videos that were like "look at this clip of Lower Decks and then this clip of TNG and see how it BETRAYS STAR TREK FOREVER" and being like "this seems pretty good", I binged through the season this week and it was freaking hilarious. Crisis Point was I think my favorite episode just because I love the structural meta-humor of "here are all the standard beats of a Star Trek movie presented without comment". I think by the end it does a really good job of walking the line between absurdist comedy but also just genuine and serious enough to be something that could be happening in canon.

    I just hope the next season doesn't just reset the status quo after the finale blew it up so thoroughly.

    In general I dont like the 20XX trek shows but the clips from Lower deck I saw made me give it a shot and I dont regret it. Rough starts are a Trek tradition at this point but it ended so strong Im confident in it going forward( at least to pay for a month of all access after a new season).

    Im also positive the youtube people who dont liken it havent watched it

    King Riptor on
    I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
    Cambiataexis
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    God, they're still around?

    CBS/Paramount were quite generous with them, IMO. The lawsuit didn't just come out of nowhere to shut them down, they were initially allowed generous terms (they could fundraise and sell merchandise, but the producers could not profit or call themselves "official" - everyone else involved could be paid, however), then more restrictive terms (no more merch, nobody involved could profit, and seriously, you're not official, stop saying you're the rightful owners of Star Trek), then quite restrictive terms but only on them (and strictly out of retaliation for being prats).

    They doubled down until they ruined a lot of fun for a lot of fans besides themselves and they deserve whatever shittiness that created between them.

    Whaaaat? Was that the sticking point? They tried to claim ownership rights?

    I'm still kind of sad about Axanar, it looks like a genuinly cool production. I can't understand why in situations like these the IP holders don't just work something out to licence it as an official production and take a big share of someone else's work. They get paid and the creators get to use the IP. Seems like a win win.

    They didn't initially claim ownership, but they claimed to be "officially licensed," which they were not. They actually had JJ Abrams on their side initially, he was lobbying CBS and Paramount to drop the lawsuit, which was why they originally were allowed to do whatever as long as they dropped the "official" label.

    When it actually got to court, they took a shit on their only ally by saying that because the JJ Abrams movie wasn't real Star Trek, that they personally were the only true custodians of the canon and basically tried "I'm out of order? No, YOU'RE out of order!" on copyright, which the judge was supremely unamused by.

    CBS was able to dictate terms WAY worse than they could have had in retaliation, and they promptly breached those terms again, leading to the rules applying to ALL fan productions, putting an end to Phase Two, Renegades, a series where people played the various pen-and-paper and miniature games on camera, and weirdest of all, a sequel to the TNG porno (a de-pornified version of which exists and is probably better than most of the other fan productions I listed).


    Basically, the sticking point wasn't any one specific thing but their refusal to believe that any kind of rules could apply to them.

    Argh that's actually infuriating. They sound delusional.

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    Winky wrote: »
    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    God, they're still around?

    CBS/Paramount were quite generous with them, IMO. The lawsuit didn't just come out of nowhere to shut them down, they were initially allowed generous terms (they could fundraise and sell merchandise, but the producers could not profit or call themselves "official" - everyone else involved could be paid, however), then more restrictive terms (no more merch, nobody involved could profit, and seriously, you're not official, stop saying you're the rightful owners of Star Trek), then quite restrictive terms but only on them (and strictly out of retaliation for being prats).

    They doubled down until they ruined a lot of fun for a lot of fans besides themselves and they deserve whatever shittiness that created between them.

    Whaaaat? Was that the sticking point? They tried to claim ownership rights?

    I'm still kind of sad about Axanar, it looks like a genuinly cool production. I can't understand why in situations like these the IP holders don't just work something out to licence it as an official production and take a big share of someone else's work. They get paid and the creators get to use the IP. Seems like a win win.

    They didn't initially claim ownership, but they claimed to be "officially licensed," which they were not. They actually had JJ Abrams on their side initially, he was lobbying CBS and Paramount to drop the lawsuit, which was why they originally were allowed to do whatever as long as they dropped the "official" label.

    When it actually got to court, they took a shit on their only ally by saying that because the JJ Abrams movie wasn't real Star Trek, that they personally were the only true custodians of the canon and basically tried "I'm out of order? No, YOU'RE out of order!" on copyright, which the judge was supremely unamused by.

    CBS was able to dictate terms WAY worse than they could have had in retaliation, and they promptly breached those terms again, leading to the rules applying to ALL fan productions, putting an end to Phase Two, Renegades, a series where people played the various pen-and-paper and miniature games on camera, and weirdest of all, a sequel to the TNG porno (a de-pornified version of which exists and is probably better than most of the other fan productions I listed).


    Basically, the sticking point wasn't any one specific thing but their refusal to believe that any kind of rules could apply to them.

    Argh that's actually infuriating. They sound delusional.

    Reminds me of that Rapper putting out a Nintendo Emulator and daring Nintendo to do something about it. So they did.

    There's "Copyright is bad" and there's "I can ignore copyright"

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited October 22
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Axanar also was selling merch with trademarked logos. And they were trying to sidestep the whole copyright issue by claiming they weren't selling episodes but offering them for free in exchange for donations. In their own email communications, the creators freely admitted that they were trying to make a proper Star Trek production without obtaining the proper licenses.

    If CBS didn't come down on them like a ton of bricks, they could have lost their trademark.

    Yeah, especially the "official" part.

    Copyright you're allowed to selectively enforce, ignore violations, set up any kind of open license you want. CBS/Paramount had historically ignored fan works and even quietly approved of actors reprising their roles.

    Axanar's antics brought trademark into it, which is different. The mandatory enforcement thing gets overstated a lot (like, all the lawsuits by Monster energy drinks and Monster cables are not necessary, and Bethesda going after Scrolls was probably not), and realistically there's a really low bare minimum to actually maintain a trademark. You also get to argue that any missed violation didn't create customer confusion in your eyes and thus did not require action, and companies have straight up lied and said ignored violations were under an implicit license when they go after examples that are worth their time (Coca Cola vs the infamous gum).

    Axanar managed to plop their asses square in the middle of that bare minimum, and when they were offered an easy chance to slip through a crack they planted their feet and demanded that the wind respect them.

    The wind does not respect a fool.



    And as a result fans lost a lot. Continues and Phase 2 were both good fan shows, and Renegades had promise. A ton of Trek actors (plus James Doohan's son) were involved in all three, and they did a lot to "keep the seat warm" for a return of Star Trek.

    Hevach on
    Commander Zoom
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    going back a few posts, Spock also was a captain in the movies. He "let" his friend Admiral Kirk command the ship.

    AbsoluteZero
  • ElbasunuElbasunu Registered User regular
    Losing the stage 9 project is still the thing that makes me the most cranky.

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    Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
    Lezta
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    all of the above is why I say Axanar is literally why we can't have nice things.
    (and I rather liked what I saw of it, before... *shrug*)

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    Strikor
  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    Discovery s3e2:

    Another solid episode. This season seems...more confident than the first two. It has still has the same focus on big stakes, but where the show used to sacrifice character development for plot, now they're taking their time. It feels closer to Lower Decks in that the script moves quickly while providing the little character moments that make Trek Trek.

    Details:
    Saru deserves to be Captain. I know Michael's the lead, but damn his leadership in this was inspiring. None of it feels forced or pretentious; he's just exactly what you want a Starfleet officer to be.

    I'm not sure where the show is going with Tilly and Detmer. While it's good they're showing that jumping 930 years forward is not pleasant, Tilly feels like she's regressing to her season 1 insecurity and Detmer was just weird. I kept expecting the other shoe to drop, what with all these significant shots and blank stares, but she's just kinda there the whole episode. We'll see if they make hay out of it or what.

    The courier managed to be a pretty strong one-off villain, all the more impressive since his appearance takes place entirely in one room. Their weapons reminded me of that line Stargate about weapons of war versus weapons of terror.

    Saru, Tilly, Janet, and Nan have really come into their own but the other bridge crew still feel like window dressing. I'm the kind of fan who memorizes timelines and class-names, can rattle off all sorts of useless trivia, but I can't for the life remember the communications or tactical officers' names are. This is their third season. We got more character development out of Leeta's wardrobe. The show needs to do better.

    Zilla360
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    If Detmer:
    Doesn't turn out to have been infected by Control in a last-gasp attempt at survival, I will apologise for assuming so.
    But I won't be surprised if we get a single episode where they finally kill Control off, possibly killing Detmer into the bargain.

    The main reason I don't think they're going to do that is it's pretty much what they did with Cyborg Crewmate Whose Name I Forgot last season, and I'd hope they'd show more imagination than that. Then I laugh, but it's a sad laugh.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
    MancingtomZilla360Snicketysnickchrono_traveller
  • GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    Going to be quite a game.

    bacsph4wads9.png

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Yeah, that's getting into "Poker Night at the Inventory" territory.

    One of my favorite "...?" things, back when I doffed heavily, was sending my Horta miners to martial arts tournaments.
    (They usually did well, because Resilient. "It's a rock, it doesn't have any vulnerable spots!")

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited October 22
    thats about as fair as

    override367 on
    MancingtomJacobkoshGlyphchrono_travellerAbsoluteZero
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Glyph wrote: »
    Going to be quite a game.

    bacsph4wads9.png

    STO exocomps aren't Peanut Hamper, they've got integrated shields and can replicate a phaser from their multi-tool thing.

    That game is going to go south hard and Tendi is going to be in sickbay a while.

  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Glyph wrote: »
    Going to be quite a game.

    bacsph4wads9.png

    STO exocomps aren't Peanut Hamper, they've got integrated shields and can replicate a phaser from their multi-tool thing.

    That game is going to go south hard and Tendi is going to be in sickbay a while.

    Well, she is a nurse. So, she'd be there anyway.
    Convenient, I guess.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
    Strikoroverride367Shadowen
  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    Dong Space 9 update: I liked this episode where Dax kills a guy with the klingons

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Second episode of Discovery was better than the first. Lots of fun, and Tig Notaro and Michelle Yeoh are effective deadpan foils for the rest of the crew.

    SneaksMorganVchrono_travellerZilla360
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Disco season 3 episode 2
    "I landed a year ago." Oh, would've expected something way longer. A year doesn't seem so bad

    Zilla360
  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Disco season 3 episode 2
    "I landed a year ago." Oh, would've expected something way longer. A year doesn't seem so bad
    Depends on the year.

    WinkyCorporal CarlRichyStrikorCommander Zoomchrono_travellerZilla360
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    One thing this season of Discovery seems to have a little more clearly in its sights is a defining idea. The first season was just hey we found a gap in continuity we can play about in and also remember the mirror universe? Season 2 seemed to be hey I guess we can use Spock and Pike and here's a season long arc that feels like an Abrams mystery box and also lots of crying.

    But here's season 3 with let's start the Federation from scratch in a dystopian future and that feels like a far sturdier foundation to base a show off.

    Mancingtomhonoverechrono_travellerZilla360evilbob
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Hey now, no need to be insulting.
    I think they always knew what the mystery was, comparing it to an Abrams mystery box is just rude.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    klemming wrote: »
    Hey now, no need to be insulting.
    I think they always knew what the mystery was, comparing it to an Abrams mystery box is just rude.

    Oh sure, they had an answer, but it felt (and seemed to be structured like) one of his thingummies. X number of clues you have to collect before you can send off to this address for the conclusion.

    And I still don't know why the federation were so interested in the signals in the first place. They were given ultra priority right from the get go but why? It turned out to be incredibly important but at the start it was just hey these signals are weird DROP EVERYTHING GET TO THE BOTTOM OF IT NOW NOW NOW.

    Also while I loved Pike and Number 1 I kinda disliked their take on young Spock, and began to dread scenes with him being petulant and sneery.

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I assume this season's going to have much the same thing with figuring out The Burn. They'll find bits and pieces and then find enough clues to figure it out.
    But I also assume that written down somewhere is what actually happened. Abrams doesn't do that, he just writes a mystery and panic writes an answer when he can't kick it any further down the road.

    The thing with Starfleet knowing about the signals was weird though, I admit. Not just knowing about them but knowing how many there were going to be and where according to an early map, then not knowing where they would be until they happened again/first time. It's a definite plot hole, just not the same kind.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    I hope the season isn't just about the Burn and them finding a way of turning it off or reversing it somehow.

    chrono_travellerZilla360
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited October 23
    Bogart wrote: »
    Also while I loved Pike and Number 1 I kinda disliked their take on young Spock, and began to dread scenes with him being petulant and sneery.

    It always makes me think of Sarek's words from TNG.
    "I never knew what Spock was doing. When he was a boy, he would disappear for days into the mountains. I asked him where he had gone, what he had done, he refused to tell me. I insisted that he tell me. He would not. I forbade him to go. He ignored me. I punished him. He endured it, silently. But always he returned to the mountains. One might as well ask the river not to run. But secretly I admired him, the proud core of him that would not yield."

    Discovery's young Spock and his family beset by logic extremists don't feel like they fit this.


    It could be worse. They could have included Sybok.

    Hevach on
  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    god the actors really seem to love playing their mirror universe versions

    honovereHahnsoo1danxhlprmnkyZilla360AbsoluteZeroNightslyr
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    I hope the season isn't just about the Burn and them finding a way of turning it off or reversing it somehow.

    I've got real bad news for you

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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    I haven't watched Disco S3... but from what I've read, I've got to say I'm torn on the idea of the Burn. If they're trying to make it a metaphor for our over-reliance on petroleum and the disastrous consequences it can have, I guess that could be interesting, depending how they play it. But on the other hand, crystals exploding suddenly simultaneously all over the galaxy is just such a silly idea at face value that I just can't take it seriously, not unless they give a solid explanation that make it not ridiculous.

    So I guess I'll wait for the season to end and decide if it's for me.

    sig.gif
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