Star Trek: Lower Decks trailer is out. SPOILERS in effect!

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  • RhinocerousRhinocerous Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Ep 13
    couldn't they have jumped without the warp core gamble?
    That was my first thought, as well. My rationalization is that
    they could have jumped out regardless, but saw that as their golden chance to destroy the Emerald Chain for good.

    honovereSnicketysnickZilla360
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Ep 13
    couldn't they have jumped without the warp core gamble?
    That was my first thought, as well. My rationalization is that
    they could have jumped out regardless, but saw that as their golden chance to destroy the Emerald Chain for good.
    or at least cripple their flag ship because as presented the chain has several fleets, an actual government and a whole network of stations and outposts. They seem to be the preeminent power in this age.

  • Lost CanuckLost Canuck World's Greatest Escape Artist Doctor Vundabar's Murder MachineRegistered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Because currently sci-fi stuff is either grungy and dark or looks like an iPod.

    Latest episode:
    I don't think that is how deep diving works, Owo.

    A look at the Turbolift system, nice. Wait. How large is Discovery supposed to be? That's some huge caverns.

    And that's why detached nacelles are dumb

    "Beam all regulators off the ship", ugh that seems like mass murder, Burnham. Hmm they're inside another ship so maybe not.

    To your last point,
    It's mass murder anyway given that Burnham nuked everything around the ship.

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  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Yeah, hadn't gotten that far when I posted that

  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    honovere wrote: »
    Ep 13
    couldn't they have jumped without the warp core gamble?
    That was my first thought, as well. My rationalization is that
    they could have jumped out regardless, but saw that as their golden chance to destroy the Emerald Chain for good.
    or at least cripple their flag ship because as presented the chain has several fleets, an actual government and a whole network of stations and outposts. They seem to be the preeminent power in this age.

    Seems to me they could have opened fire before dumping the warp core.
    I mean, most ships don't tend to have combat rated shields on the inside, do they? Granted, I wouldn't think most ships would have weaponized their docking bays either, so I could be wrong.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    That would be a intense and interesting scene for any Trek: A ship has a hull breech somewhere and someone's down there to make some vital repairs. Meanwhile the ship is under attack and the anti-hull-breech forcefield keeps getting hit and maybe it stops some of the beam once or twice but most just forces its way through.

  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    honovere wrote: »
    honovere wrote: »
    Ep 13
    couldn't they have jumped without the warp core gamble?
    That was my first thought, as well. My rationalization is that
    they could have jumped out regardless, but saw that as their golden chance to destroy the Emerald Chain for good.
    or at least cripple their flag ship because as presented the chain has several fleets, an actual government and a whole network of stations and outposts. They seem to be the preeminent power in this age.

    Seems to me they could have opened fire before dumping the warp core.
    I mean, most ships don't tend to have combat rated shields on the inside, do they? Granted, I wouldn't think most ships would have weaponized their docking bays either, so I could be wrong.

    It was basically a huge pirate ship, with grappling hooks and everything. So having a guns and shields inside the docking bays to deal with recalcitrant starships would be in line.

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  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    I still think the whole Data wanting to stay dead thing was terribly out of character.

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  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    I still think the whole Data wanting to stay dead thing was terribly out of character.

    does it matter? they can just rebuild him from an atom of his brain whenever they want.

    PailryderAridhol
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Because currently sci-fi stuff is either grungy and dark or looks like an iPod.

    Latest episode:
    I don't think that is how deep diving works, Owo.
    A look at the Turbolift system, nice. Wait. How large is Discovery supposed to be? That's some huge caverns.

    Current Scifi is either WALL-E or EVE

    And in the case of disco's robots it's both. They really look like wall-e and eve had a baby.

  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    honovere wrote: »
    Because currently sci-fi stuff is either grungy and dark or looks like an iPod.

    Latest episode:
    I don't think that is how deep diving works, Owo.
    A look at the Turbolift system, nice. Wait. How large is Discovery supposed to be? That's some huge caverns.

    Current Scifi is either WALL-E or EVE

    And in the case of disco's robots it's both. They really look like wall-e and eve had a baby.

    (which, to be clear, definitely happened)

  • StraygatsbyStraygatsby Registered User regular
    I really enjoyed a lot of Disco 3, but that was a fuckin' dumb explanation for the burn, and that finale did no justice to the potential they laid out. I guess, if nothing else, this is a reboot within a reboot, and next year we'll just head out and start having planet of the day adventures, which I'm way cool with, but...eh.

    see317exisAridhol
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    I still think the whole Data wanting to stay dead thing was terribly out of character.

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Time's_Arrow_(episode)

    "It provides a sense of completion to my future. In a way, I am not that different from anyone else. I can now look forward to death."

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  • SneaksSneaks Registered User regular
    I still think the whole Data wanting to stay dead thing was terribly out of character.

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Time's_Arrow_(episode)

    "It provides a sense of completion to my future. In a way, I am not that different from anyone else. I can now look forward to death."

    From Picard:
    “I want to live—however briefly—knowing that my life is finite.”

    …is a damn good line.

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  • exisexis Registered User regular
    I really enjoyed a lot of Disco 3, but that was a fuckin' dumb explanation for the burn, and that finale did no justice to the potential they laid out. I guess, if nothing else, this is a reboot within a reboot, and next year we'll just head out and start having planet of the day adventures, which I'm way cool with, but...eh.

    I liked the concept of the burn, but I think it was a mistake to make it the mystery of the season. Agreed the explanation felt weak and didn't hit the target of 'big end of season reveal' it seemed to be aiming for.

    Commander Zoom
  • WeaverWeaver Who are you? What do you want?Registered User regular
    edited January 9
    Billions of people dead, across the galaxy and entire civilizations destroyed, the rise of slave empires and oh no he's a Kelpian we have to coddle him. Also despite never following orders, constantly murdering your crew(although they end up living because plot armor) Burnam is captain again. It is so dumb. Also the shows enby character treatment was extraordinarily insulting.

    Weaver on
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  • WeaverWeaver Who are you? What do you want?Registered User regular
    I was going to bed but no, I'm super grumpy at the Adira treatment. They advertised this season as having a non-binary character, got us livid from the start by going the Trill route, then had the character take several episodes to finally mumble out a pronoun correction, at which point the character is more defined by their gay Dads and dead boyfriend. Three men, on of them a dead person, are more the character of who was supposed to be a non-binary character.

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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Just finished the last episode. Not great. The insistence that events prove Micheal right and everyone then praises her to the stars is immensely tedious.

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  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    edited January 9
    Bogart wrote: »
    Just finished the last episode. Not great. The insistence that events prove Micheal right and everyone then praises her to the stars is immensely tedious.

    maybe they'll retcon it for her to be in her own pocket universe..

    autono-wally, erotibot300 on
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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Can we not drop spoilers for shows that aired yesterday? Not everyone sees them the day they came out.

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
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    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Just finished the last episode. Not great. The insistence that events prove Micheal right and everyone then praises her to the stars is immensely tedious.

    maybe they'll retcon it for her to be in her own pocket universe..

    "You've saved the universe, Burnham! All 50 cubic meters of it!"

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    "The universe is a spheroid region 705 meters in diameter."

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  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    I still think the whole Data wanting to stay dead thing was terribly out of character.

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Time's_Arrow_(episode)

    "It provides a sense of completion to my future. In a way, I am not that different from anyone else. I can now look forward to death."

    Oh you mean the 2 parter where Data dies and is brought back to life and doesn't give a speech about wanting to stay dead?

    cs6f034fsffl.jpg
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited January 9
    Data in Picard was a zombie. A clone of his memories pulled out of a failed older model android and given half life within a prison of the mind.

    Of course he wanted to end that existence. He'd already come to terms with death. He died a hero, on his own terms and with his head held high.

    Then years later, after he was eulogized and an empty coffin fired into space, some jackass ripped a ROM image of him and plugged it into an emulator with simulated inputs. That's what android hell looks like.

    Hevach on
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  • MsAnthropyMsAnthropy The Lady of Pain Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm The City of FlowersRegistered User regular
    Weaver wrote: »
    I was going to bed but no, I'm super grumpy at the Adira treatment. They advertised this season as having a non-binary character, got us livid from the start by going the Trill route, then had the character take several episodes to finally mumble out a pronoun correction, at which point the character is more defined by their gay Dads and dead boyfriend. Three men, on of them a dead person, are more the character of who was supposed to be a non-binary character.

    Ugh. Sorry to hear that my fears for that were founded. Is it true that
    they had a big deal 'coming out' / pronouns scene? I saw that somewhere, but have held off on watching the show until I heard a verdict on the season. If so, it is incredibly depressing that being trans or non-binary still requires revelation and explanation to cis people 1000 years into the future.

    "The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
    Ringo
  • hlprmnkyhlprmnky Registered User regular
    edited January 9
    MsAnthropy wrote: »
    Weaver wrote: »
    I was going to bed but no, I'm super grumpy at the Adira treatment. They advertised this season as having a non-binary character, got us livid from the start by going the Trill route, then had the character take several episodes to finally mumble out a pronoun correction, at which point the character is more defined by their gay Dads and dead boyfriend. Three men, on of them a dead person, are more the character of who was supposed to be a non-binary character.

    Ugh. Sorry to hear that my fears for that were founded. Is it true that
    they had a big deal 'coming out' / pronouns scene? I saw that somewhere, but have held off on watching the show until I heard a verdict on the season. If so, it is incredibly depressing that being trans or non-binary still requires revelation and explanation to cis people 1000 years into the future.

    If it's the scene I'm thinking of
    it's not presented as a big deal in-universe but there's a conversation between Stamets and Culber (about Adira but with them conveniently absent) that might as well have a big blinking marquee that reads "NOTICE HOW BOTH THESE FOLKS HAVE IMMEDIATELY AND WITHOUT COMMENT ADOPTED THE PRONOUN USAGE THAT ADIRA PREFERS". I'm a cis dude so I don't feel like I have a lot of space to opine about it, but the way it hit me was that they wanted to show that it was not, in fact, a big deal but they forgot to write their non-binary character with literally even one other character in the whole cast that they already know at all! Then suddenly, there wasn't a good way to, er, introduce the idea because nobody on the ship knows anything about Adira or their preferred mode of address or anything. I would be interested to know what others thought about it, I give it a solid "you did okay with what you had", tempered by a "but what you had was entirely your own creation and responsibility."

    edit: made spoiler slightly less spoilery about Adira's larger character arc.

    hlprmnky on
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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Data in Picard was a zombie. A clone of his memories pulled out of a failed older model android and given half life within a prison of the mind.

    Of course he wanted to end that existence. He'd already come to terms with death. He died a hero, on his own terms and with his head held high.

    Then years later, after he was eulogized and an empty coffin fired into space, some jackass ripped a ROM image of him and plugged it into an emulator with simulated inputs. That's what android hell looks like.

    I'm probably opening a can of worms by even asking this, but how does this Picard narrative gel with the official lore in STO? Don't they have it that B4 turns into a full fledged Data at some point and becomes captain of the Enterprise?

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    Winky wrote: »
    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited January 9
    MsAnthropy wrote: »
    Weaver wrote: »
    I was going to bed but no, I'm super grumpy at the Adira treatment. They advertised this season as having a non-binary character, got us livid from the start by going the Trill route, then had the character take several episodes to finally mumble out a pronoun correction, at which point the character is more defined by their gay Dads and dead boyfriend. Three men, on of them a dead person, are more the character of who was supposed to be a non-binary character.

    Ugh. Sorry to hear that my fears for that were founded. Is it true that
    they had a big deal 'coming out' / pronouns scene? I saw that somewhere, but have held off on watching the show until I heard a verdict on the season. If so, it is incredibly depressing that being trans or non-binary still requires revelation and explanation to cis people 1000 years into the future.

    Trying to follow this part because it seemed super unclear to me if the character was non binary, or just asking to be called they because they were a collective of people and it wasn't directly their plan/idea being discussed in context. I feel like theres a major difference, but I'm not super familiar with how non binary people would register this, and I dont really remember it ever coming back up(as in i think the dialoge just avoids pronouns after this). I think saying it is the same thing would equate to bisexuals being called the same as pansexuals, but once again, I could be super wrong.

    edit: Without someone from the outside saying it was advertised as such, watching this season, I would go "well the character is androgynous to our culture right now and theres a single scene talking about pronouns, so stereotypes mean yes? I could see how people are not happy about it.

    DiannaoChong on
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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited January 9
    Casual wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Data in Picard was a zombie. A clone of his memories pulled out of a failed older model android and given half life within a prison of the mind.

    Of course he wanted to end that existence. He'd already come to terms with death. He died a hero, on his own terms and with his head held high.

    Then years later, after he was eulogized and an empty coffin fired into space, some jackass ripped a ROM image of him and plugged it into an emulator with simulated inputs. That's what android hell looks like.

    I'm probably opening a can of worms by even asking this, but how does this Picard narrative gel with the official lore in STO? Don't they have it that B4 turns into a full fledged Data at some point and becomes captain of the Enterprise?

    The official lore is based on the Countdown comic series that lead into the JJ Abrams movies (and notably STO's Odyssey-class appeared in the Picard lead-in comic), which had Data restored in B4's body and captain of the Enterprise, yes. Picard doesn't fit at all with the Path to 2409 or the lead-in novel.

    The game itself, however, has been subtly adjusted to keep in line with Picard (Icheb and Hugh were replaced with other characters, for example, and Seven of Nine got a costume change but kept a "formal" uniform for Delta Rising and casual attire for the later Excalbian stuff) and doesn't strictly bind itself to Path to 2409. The game hasn't said any thing about the Enterprise-E except it's not around anymore, leaving its fate and everything that happened to it post-Nemesis ambiguous. The Path to 2409 is no longer on the official website and the novel is long out of print.

    If season 2 does make Worf captain of the Enterprise, however, that basically trashes the whole KDF storyline.

    Hevach on
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  • MsAnthropyMsAnthropy The Lady of Pain Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm The City of FlowersRegistered User regular
    hlprmnky wrote: »
    MsAnthropy wrote: »
    Weaver wrote: »
    I was going to bed but no, I'm super grumpy at the Adira treatment. They advertised this season as having a non-binary character, got us livid from the start by going the Trill route, then had the character take several episodes to finally mumble out a pronoun correction, at which point the character is more defined by their gay Dads and dead boyfriend. Three men, on of them a dead person, are more the character of who was supposed to be a non-binary character.

    Ugh. Sorry to hear that my fears for that were founded. Is it true that
    they had a big deal 'coming out' / pronouns scene? I saw that somewhere, but have held off on watching the show until I heard a verdict on the season. If so, it is incredibly depressing that being trans or non-binary still requires revelation and explanation to cis people 1000 years into the future.

    If it's the scene I'm thinking of
    it's not presented as a big deal in-universe but there's a conversation between Stamets and Culber (about Adira but with them conveniently absent) that might as well have a big blinking marquee that reads "NOTICE HOW BOTH THESE FOLKS HAVE IMMEDIATELY AND WITHOUT COMMENT ADOPTED THE PRONOUN USAGE THAT ADIRA PREFERS". I'm a cis dude so I don't feel like I have a lot of space to opine about it, but the way it hit me was that they wanted to show that it was not, in fact, a big deal but they forgot to write their non-binary character with literally even one other character in the whole cast that they already know at all! Then suddenly, there wasn't a good way to, er, introduce the idea because nobody on the ship knows anything about Adira or their preferred mode of address or anything. I would be interested to know what others thought about it, I give it a solid "you did okay with what you had", tempered by a "but what you had was entirely your own creation and responsibility."

    edit: made spoiler slightly less spoilery about Adira's larger character arc.

    Hrrm. Thanks for overview. Frankly sounds a ton clunkier than Jadzia meeting Kor on DS9, which is funny since the writers then didn’t seem to know they were writing an allegorical character.

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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited January 9
    I wonder if the writers not realizing it was for the better, because they didn't get hung up on trying to adequately reflect a reality they don't understand. Instead they could create a new reality that others could relate to.

    I don't remember the exact quote but in one of his forwards, Tolkien compared his writing to CS Lewis. He didn't like answering questions about allegory in Lord of the Rings. Allegory like in Chronicles of Narnia lived in the "tyranny of the author," while if anyone saw allegory in Lord of the Rings it was purely in the "freedom of the reader." He beleived people could relate to the latter more, it didn't have to mean the same thing to everyone when nobody had to focus on the reality underpinning the story.

    Hevach on
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  • mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    I wonder if the writers not realizing it was for the better, because they didn't get hung up on trying to adequately reflect a reality they don't understand. Instead they could create a new reality that others could relate to.

    I don't remember the exact quote but in one of his forwards, Tolkien compared his writing to CS Lewis. He didn't like answering questions about allegory in Lord of the Rings. Allegory like in Chronicles of Narnia lived in the "tyranny of the author," while if anyone saw allegory in Lord of the Rings it was purely in the "freedom of the reader."

    It's the difference between allegory and applicability. Another example would be Cherry, from Discword. The character is applicable for a lot of topics regarding self-identity and its interactions with society, but is not an allegory for any of them.
    It allows a more interesting and abstractive exploration of various topics. Of course, this is not representation, but neither is allegory.

    Trills and symbiotes are another good example: they are not non-binary. They have a different kind of identity, where each new host and symbiote paring is both a new person and a continuation of the host, the symbiote, and all the previous hosts.
    This goes beyond gender identity, to the point where it's not clear if criminal responsibility propagates. Still applicable.

    shrykeMsAnthropyRingo
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Data in Picard was a zombie. A clone of his memories pulled out of a failed older model android and given half life within a prison of the mind.

    Of course he wanted to end that existence. He'd already come to terms with death. He died a hero, on his own terms and with his head held high.

    Then years later, after he was eulogized and an empty coffin fired into space, some jackass ripped a ROM image of him and plugged it into an emulator with simulated inputs. That's what android hell looks like.

    I'm probably opening a can of worms by even asking this, but how does this Picard narrative gel with the official lore in STO? Don't they have it that B4 turns into a full fledged Data at some point and becomes captain of the Enterprise?

    The official lore is based on the Countdown comic series that lead into the JJ Abrams movies (and notably STO's Odyssey-class appeared in the Picard lead-in comic), which had Data restored in B4's body and captain of the Enterprise, yes. Picard doesn't fit at all with the Path to 2409 or the lead-in novel.

    The game itself, however, has been subtly adjusted to keep in line with Picard (Icheb and Hugh were replaced with other characters, for example, and Seven of Nine got a costume change but kept a "formal" uniform for Delta Rising and casual attire for the later Excalbian stuff) and doesn't strictly bind itself to Path to 2409. The game hasn't said any thing about the Enterprise-E except it's not around anymore, leaving its fate and everything that happened to it post-Nemesis ambiguous. The Path to 2409 is no longer on the official website and the novel is long out of print.

    If season 2 does make Worf captain of the Enterprise, however, that basically trashes the whole KDF storyline.

    Makes no sense in light of the end of DS9 where Worf leaves starfleet to become an ambassador or something either. Mind you don't most of the TNG movies also completely ignore that in favour of coming up with a contrived reason for him just happening to stumble across his old ship at an opportune moment? I'm not sure how the dates line up in universe tbh.

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    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Data in Picard was a zombie. A clone of his memories pulled out of a failed older model android and given half life within a prison of the mind.

    Of course he wanted to end that existence. He'd already come to terms with death. He died a hero, on his own terms and with his head held high.

    Then years later, after he was eulogized and an empty coffin fired into space, some jackass ripped a ROM image of him and plugged it into an emulator with simulated inputs. That's what android hell looks like.

    I'm probably opening a can of worms by even asking this, but how does this Picard narrative gel with the official lore in STO? Don't they have it that B4 turns into a full fledged Data at some point and becomes captain of the Enterprise?

    The official lore is based on the Countdown comic series that lead into the JJ Abrams movies (and notably STO's Odyssey-class appeared in the Picard lead-in comic), which had Data restored in B4's body and captain of the Enterprise, yes. Picard doesn't fit at all with the Path to 2409 or the lead-in novel.

    The game itself, however, has been subtly adjusted to keep in line with Picard (Icheb and Hugh were replaced with other characters, for example, and Seven of Nine got a costume change but kept a "formal" uniform for Delta Rising and casual attire for the later Excalbian stuff) and doesn't strictly bind itself to Path to 2409. The game hasn't said any thing about the Enterprise-E except it's not around anymore, leaving its fate and everything that happened to it post-Nemesis ambiguous. The Path to 2409 is no longer on the official website and the novel is long out of print.

    If season 2 does make Worf captain of the Enterprise, however, that basically trashes the whole KDF storyline.

    Makes no sense in light of the end of DS9 where Worf leaves starfleet to become an ambassador or something either. Mind you don't most of the TNG movies also completely ignore that in favour of coming up with a contrived reason for him just happening to stumble across his old ship at an opportune moment? I'm not sure how the dates line up in universe tbh.

    I recall that in first contact he was about to ram his ship into the cube before Picard transported him aboard

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    mrondeau wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    I wonder if the writers not realizing it was for the better, because they didn't get hung up on trying to adequately reflect a reality they don't understand. Instead they could create a new reality that others could relate to.

    I don't remember the exact quote but in one of his forwards, Tolkien compared his writing to CS Lewis. He didn't like answering questions about allegory in Lord of the Rings. Allegory like in Chronicles of Narnia lived in the "tyranny of the author," while if anyone saw allegory in Lord of the Rings it was purely in the "freedom of the reader."

    It's the difference between allegory and applicability. Another example would be Cherry, from Discword. The character is applicable for a lot of topics regarding self-identity and its interactions with society, but is not an allegory for any of them.
    It allows a more interesting and abstractive exploration of various topics. Of course, this is not representation, but neither is allegory.

    Trills and symbiotes are another good example: they are not non-binary. They have a different kind of identity, where each new host and symbiote paring is both a new person and a continuation of the host, the symbiote, and all the previous hosts.
    This goes beyond gender identity, to the point where it's not clear if criminal responsibility propagates. Still applicable.

    You can see this same thing in Rejoined, the DS9 "Jadzia meets an old lover who is also a joined Trill and also she's a woman now" episode. (if you watched the ads back in the 90s, this is the "DAX MAKES OUT WITH ANOTHER CHICK! WOOP! WOOP! WOOP! WOOP!" episode) Nobody involved was trying to make a direct analogy to lesbianism or it being taboo and the episode reflects that. But I could definitely see people identifying with the situation if they were in a same sex relationship. Or even something else. I think honestly the episode is better for not trying to be any kind of direct analogy. There's also something really nice about how in all the angst over their forbidden love the fact that both of them are now women is I think literally never brought up once by anyone. All the characters treat it like it's completely irrelevant.

    mrondeauMsAnthropyRingo
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Data in Picard was a zombie. A clone of his memories pulled out of a failed older model android and given half life within a prison of the mind.

    Of course he wanted to end that existence. He'd already come to terms with death. He died a hero, on his own terms and with his head held high.

    Then years later, after he was eulogized and an empty coffin fired into space, some jackass ripped a ROM image of him and plugged it into an emulator with simulated inputs. That's what android hell looks like.

    I'm probably opening a can of worms by even asking this, but how does this Picard narrative gel with the official lore in STO? Don't they have it that B4 turns into a full fledged Data at some point and becomes captain of the Enterprise?

    The official lore is based on the Countdown comic series that lead into the JJ Abrams movies (and notably STO's Odyssey-class appeared in the Picard lead-in comic), which had Data restored in B4's body and captain of the Enterprise, yes. Picard doesn't fit at all with the Path to 2409 or the lead-in novel.

    The game itself, however, has been subtly adjusted to keep in line with Picard (Icheb and Hugh were replaced with other characters, for example, and Seven of Nine got a costume change but kept a "formal" uniform for Delta Rising and casual attire for the later Excalbian stuff) and doesn't strictly bind itself to Path to 2409. The game hasn't said any thing about the Enterprise-E except it's not around anymore, leaving its fate and everything that happened to it post-Nemesis ambiguous. The Path to 2409 is no longer on the official website and the novel is long out of print.

    If season 2 does make Worf captain of the Enterprise, however, that basically trashes the whole KDF storyline.

    Makes no sense in light of the end of DS9 where Worf leaves starfleet to become an ambassador or something either. Mind you don't most of the TNG movies also completely ignore that in favour of coming up with a contrived reason for him just happening to stumble across his old ship at an opportune moment? I'm not sure how the dates line up in universe tbh.

    I recall that in first contact he was about to ram his ship into the cube before Picard transported him aboard

    Yep, First Contact coincides with Blaze of Glory, so most of the senior staff was otherwise occupied and Worf had the Defiant, it was present in the battle but adrift and needed to be evacuated. For Nemesis he was visiting for the wedding. For Insurrection he was NO U SHUT UP NERD

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    For Insurrection he was NO U SHUT UP WESLEY

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    HevachStrikorRingoDonnicton
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    A while back we joked about Picard and Sisko becoming friends over "shit that happened to O'Brien" stories. Talking about who wasn't on the Defiant and why makes me think of a real way: if Sisko had been on the Defiant.

    I know they didn't want to bloat the cast, so most of the DS9 lot wouldn't be there, but they don't have to. Imagine if Lily was never beamed up, and instead of her Picard's side kick through the whole thing was Sisko, both facing the enemy they thought took everything from them, carrying very different demons from their last encounter.

    I can literally HEAR Avery Brooks yelling, "Picard blow up the damn ship!"

    JacobkoshCommander ZoomMsAnthropyCasualStrikorRingoZilla360MonwynSnicketysnickhlprmnkyGiantGeek2020MatevDonnicton
  • mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    A while back we joked about Picard and Sisko becoming friends over "shit that happened to O'Brien" stories. Talking about who wasn't on the Defiant and why makes me think of a real way: if Sisko had been on the Defiant.

    I know they didn't want to bloat the cast, so most of the DS9 lot wouldn't be there, but they don't have to. Imagine if Lily was never beamed up, and instead of her Picard's side kick through the whole thing was Sisko, both facing the enemy they thought took everything from them, carrying very different demons from their last encounter.

    I can literally HEAR Avery Brooks yelling, "Picard blow up the damn ship!"

    Great, now I want to see that movie. Kira helping the Entreprise's crew understanding a bunch of struggling survivors in a glorified refugee camp, O'Brien getting assimilated then unassimilated then super-assimilated.

    Commander ZoomHevachMsAnthropyShadowenStrikorRingoMonwynJandaruSnicketysnickHahnsoo1PailryderGiantGeek2020MatevDonnicton
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited January 10
    I'm almost ashamed to admit my first thought when I inserted Kira was on Worf's team taking charge of the defense and teaching the crew guerilla tactics. "It's not your ship anymore, it's theirs. Welcome to the Resistance."

    Hevach on
    Commander ZoomRingoGiantGeek2020Matev
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