If it's an unblockable string, you dodge again (and again, if necessary)
If it's a parryable combo, you parry the second hit.
There is no "unblockable vs parryable" initial mixup to any of their attacks, because dodge works on all of them. It cannot be punished. It cannot be the wrong option. It neuters the mixup.
Once you've dodged the first attack you always know what the next move will be. They never change their attacks mid combo.
Its analogous to a 3d fighting game that lets you sidestep, and you are in a situation where you have to choose between blocking low or standing, but then side step turns out to avoid both moves. Why choose? Why guess? Why bother reacting? You don't have to.
edit: I can perfect parry the second hit of pretty much every regular combo duellists use if I bother to concentrate on doing it. First hit? I dunno. Never had to bother learning.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
0
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
Interesting. Where did the term “option select” originate? Is it a fighting game term? Is it a term I missed somewhere in Ghost? I’ve just never heard it before so I’m curious!
Battletag: Threeve#1501
PSN: Threeve703
0
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited August 2020
I've seen it used in tekken, where it's used slightly differently to 2d fighters. In 2d fighters its queuing a set of moves to cover multiple situations.
In tekken it's commonly used to talk about how to avoid enemy offensive options with movement.
Basically there will be characters with options that you can avoid by doing specific movements. Say a character has a common low versus stand block mixup, but the low can't be sidestepped, but is slower than the mid, which can be sidestepped.
You would sidestep, quickly block low, then back to standing. Done with the right timing its a rote set of movements that will automatically side step the mid and block the low, no guess work on your part necessary. So it automatically "selects" the right defense for each offensive "option".
Only in tekken you can punish this if they know you are doing it by doing a different move not part of the usual mixup that catches side step.
Alas the duellists aren't so lucky. None of them can punish a short dodge. They can punish a roll dodge by chasing it down, but not a short dodge. It recovers too quickly.
The only caveat is the sweep, which does track on lethal (but not hard). But that's quite slow, and infrequently used. If they don't have that sweep, it's impossible to hit you if you dodge first. So one attack out of all of their options, that very few duellists even have, beats this. One. And only on lethal, cos on hard it just whiffs anyway.
I dunno what I was expecting really. They can't really make it frequently punishable without enraging everyone on the planet. Probably me as well. Their system is too fixed for that. Instead what they basically do is just add another unblockable, so I'm dodging three times in succession. It doesn't get any harder the more they add tho, the timing is fixed in between each strike. If you can dodge it twice, you can dodge it three times.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
+2
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
There's probably a reasonable timing window to master for most people. We can't all be Morninglord, Morninglord.
Battletag: Threeve#1501
PSN: Threeve703
0
ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
In 2D fighter terminology, an "option select" is entering two inputs simultaneously in an ambiguous situation in hopes of getting the optimal outcome based on how the situation plays out. Example: in Street Fighter some characters in some cases you can crouch while inputting throw (LP+LK) and depending on what your opponent does and the spacing you'll either throw them or get in a crouching LK if they try to tech the throw.
New patch fixes some bugs, gives new text options and makes the Traveler's attire give a visual cue when near a collectible - handy if you've got vibration turned off.
I've seen it used in tekken, where it's used slightly differently to 2d fighters. In 2d fighters its queuing a set of moves to cover multiple situations.
In tekken it's commonly used to talk about how to avoid enemy offensive options with movement.
Basically there will be characters with options that you can avoid by doing specific movements. Say a character has a common low versus stand block mixup, but the low can't be sidestepped, but is slower than the mid, which can be sidestepped.
You would sidestep, quickly block low, then back to standing. Done with the right timing its a rote set of movements that will automatically side step the mid and block the low, no guess work on your part necessary. So it automatically "selects" the right defense for each offensive "option".
Only in tekken you can punish this if they know you are doing it by doing a different move not part of the usual mixup that catches side step.
Alas the duellists aren't so lucky. None of them can punish a short dodge. They can punish a roll dodge by chasing it down, but not a short dodge. It recovers too quickly.
The only caveat is the sweep, which does track on lethal (but not hard). But that's quite slow, and infrequently used. If they don't have that sweep, it's impossible to hit you if you dodge first. So one attack out of all of their options, that very few duellists even have, beats this. One. And only on lethal, cos on hard it just whiffs anyway.
I dunno what I was expecting really. They can't really make it frequently punishable without enraging everyone on the planet. Probably me as well. Their system is too fixed for that. Instead what they basically do is just add another unblockable, so I'm dodging three times in succession. It doesn't get any harder the more they add tho, the timing is fixed in between each strike. If you can dodge it twice, you can dodge it three times.
This is because of what I said earlier. It was a huge design flaw for the makers of this game to separate attack, dodge, run, jump, duck, parry, heal, throw Ku air, throw wind chime, throw smoke bomb, throw black powder bomb, draw bow, shoot arrow, collect supplies/linens, change into travelers attire, change into previous outfit, heavenly blow, and grapes of wrath into different buttons. Why they didn’t just program everything to R2 and just make everything context sensitive is beyond me and it would have eliminated ambiguity.
Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
+5
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
It’s 2020 and I honestly can’t tell whether that is parody or not.
Battletag: Threeve#1501
PSN: Threeve703
+2
ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
Cool thanks folks for the info. I'm not a fighting game guy.
I don't blame you but you might see more of the terms coming up in the future. Looking at this game, Sekiro, 4Honor, and probably others you can see some fighting game type mechanics sneaking into the third-person melee action genre.
I'm getting knee deep into Act 2, and I can see how they're basically forcing you in a cute way to not really be a good samurai anymore. Two of the coolest things in the beginning of the game are the Standoff and the Perfect Parry. Standoff is ruined by the pricks that will flinch multiple times to get you to screw up, those guys I just set on fire and tell them EXACTLY how much they can fuck right off. And speaking of fire, the Perfect Parry is ruined by the Mongols that show up in Act 2 who will set you on fire if you parry them.
It is completely fair in a 'I hate this' kind of way, where many of the Mongols are only guilty of using exactly the same tools as you are. By Act 3 I'm guessing using moves like Dance of Wrath become the new Standoff, and most people are completely done with honor by that point. By that point I'd guess most people are using all the Ghost tools and stealth kills and just screwing with the enemy as much as possible. Which honestly if that's how the game is set up, I kinda dig that evolution of gameplay... from 'I'm one-shotting all of you face to face because I'm badass' to 'I'm one-shotting all of you from the back because fuck you and the horse you rode in on!!'
I know it's probably too late for the PS5 generation, and while the advances in stuff like ray tracing and load times seems to be substantial, for the PS6, do you think they could work on making good writing the focus in their advancements? Because I'd really like to play a game where 'kill animal companion' wasn't the default way to try and elicit emotion. More than anything at this point it's tiresome.
Javen on
0
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I am almost done now I think.
I have enjoyed the game a lot, but I am ready to be done and move into something else.
I know it's probably too late for the PS5 generation, and while the advances in stuff like ray tracing and load times seems to be substantial, for the PS6, do you think they could work on making good writing the focus in their advancements? Because I'd really like to play a game where 'kill animal companion' wasn't the default way to try and elicit emotion. More than anything at this point it's tiresome.
As soon as you could name your horse, I knew that was happening. As soon as I saw every mission ended with you bonding with the horse, I REALLY knew that was happening. I haven't even gotten there, and I don't even care. I knew it was a matter of when and not if. The Honest Game Trailer for this game calls him 'Artax-san'.
Also, it's less of a personal hit depending on how you've been playing. If you've been blowing up Mongol horses all game, I mean... what do you want?
Also, giving you a black stealth suit right before sending you into AN ENTIRE REGION COVERED IN SNOW WHICH YOU CAN'T LEAVE is just...what
Okay, yeah, Act 3 is just such a step down in every respect so far. Or maybe it's always been like this and I just never noticed.
My first act of free-roaming was to try and collect some pieces of armor. So I ride north to a mongol camp, clear it out completely, and blow it up.
Fade to black, and I'm somehow in the middle of the camp, surrounded by Mongols, all of whom were apparently hiding in the snow just outside of view the entire time, and their leader. Whom I duel and kill for the armor piece. Then I immediately awkwardly kneel as soon as he calls, get the item, then stay there while all the Mongols, who magically showed up in the first place despite me ruining their camp with siege weapons, slowly run away again. What the hell?
So far, the best thing I can say about Act 3 is that at least the Ghost armor looks kind of cool, and the game treating Shimura's 'don't do war crimes' like such a huge ask, and immediately following your doing of war crimes with 'oh no! now the war crimes are being done on me!' was very good comeuppance which I appreciated.
Javen on
+1
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited August 2020
I don't really have a problem using standoff. I just wait until they start moving forwards. I watch their torso/legs, not their weapon.
In fact I fix my gaze not on them, but on the space just in front of them, in the space between us. I'm watching their body only with peripheral vision.
As soon as they intrude in that space, I let go. They can wave their swords around as much as they like, as long as they don't take a step forwards I'm just sitting there waiting patiently.
This usually means they die inches away from touching me.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I don't really have a problem using standoff. I just wait until they start moving forwards. I watch their torso/legs, not their weapon.
In fact I fix my gaze not on them, but on the space just in front of them, in the space between us. I'm watching their body only with peripheral vision.
As soon as they intrude in that space, I let go. They can wave their swords around as much as they like, as long as they don't take a step forwards I'm just sitting there waiting patiently.
This usually means they die inches away from touching me.
I've started fixating on Jin rather than the enemy so if their body moves closer in my periphery I let go, kind of like what you are saying, Lord. It's better than before. I still somehow get tricked with feints now and then, though, even doing that.
I'll try to look at more feet.
Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
0
Andy JoeWe claim the land for the highlord!The AdirondacksRegistered Userregular
Cool thanks folks for the info. I'm not a fighting game guy.
I don't blame you but you might see more of the terms coming up in the future. Looking at this game, Sekiro, 4Honor, and probably others you can see some fighting game type mechanics sneaking into the third-person melee action genre.
If anyone in this thread starts talking about fuzzy guard I'm out.
I'm getting knee deep into Act 2, and I can see how they're basically forcing you in a cute way to not really be a good samurai anymore. Two of the coolest things in the beginning of the game are the Standoff and the Perfect Parry. Standoff is ruined by the pricks that will flinch multiple times to get you to screw up, those guys I just set on fire and tell them EXACTLY how much they can fuck right off. And speaking of fire, the Perfect Parry is ruined by the Mongols that show up in Act 2 who will set you on fire if you parry them.
It is completely fair in a 'I hate this' kind of way, where many of the Mongols are only guilty of using exactly the same tools as you are. By Act 3 I'm guessing using moves like Dance of Wrath become the new Standoff, and most people are completely done with honor by that point. By that point I'd guess most people are using all the Ghost tools and stealth kills and just screwing with the enemy as much as possible. Which honestly if that's how the game is set up, I kinda dig that evolution of gameplay... from 'I'm one-shotting all of you face to face because I'm badass' to 'I'm one-shotting all of you from the back because fuck you and the horse you rode in on!!'
I stopped caring about honor in Act 1 when I noticed there were easily over twenty enemies in the same area but there was also a brazier of coals hanging over a section of the courtyard. I bought the Firecracker upgrade, tossed one underneath the brazier, and watched as the enemies all swarmed like lemmings towards the pretty light and noise. Then I nocked a plain arrow, shot the brazier, and set them all ablaze to die in seconds. A big, armored leader then came out to see the carnage, I loaded up a heavy arrow with the longbow, and promptly headshot him for an instant kill.
I can't go back to dueling every single person individually after tasting that kind of power
+3
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
I have the kensei armor.
This is my excuse for throwing sticky bombs and black powder bombs and kunai's everywhere now.
I mean, I have this armor, it'd just be a waste of stats if I didn't use it right?
I crept into a base, stabbed an archer, killed two more archers with the bow. Someone saw one of the archers across the way and did his little toot on the horn, so they all crowded around the corpse.
So I threw a black powder bomb at them across the entire encampment. They saw it coming, but it was too late to run.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I actually really love this game so much. I think the seamlessness between stealth and openness is perfect. You can slip back and forth between stealth and high profile murder without it mattering to the game at all. They didn't go overboard like Assassin's Creed often has with optional challenges, kind of "forcing" you to play a certain way through many missions if you want all the bonuses or percent completeness. I kind of hate that now.
I don't really have a problem using standoff. I just wait until they start moving forwards. I watch their torso/legs, not their weapon.
In fact I fix my gaze not on them, but on the space just in front of them, in the space between us. I'm watching their body only with peripheral vision.
As soon as they intrude in that space, I let go. They can wave their swords around as much as they like, as long as they don't take a step forwards I'm just sitting there waiting patiently.
This usually means they die inches away from touching me.
I always watch the most distant foot of theirs. I just take a nice deep breath and don't worry about their shouts and feints.
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
0
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
I don't really have a problem using standoff. I just wait until they start moving forwards. I watch their torso/legs, not their weapon.
In fact I fix my gaze not on them, but on the space just in front of them, in the space between us. I'm watching their body only with peripheral vision.
As soon as they intrude in that space, I let go. They can wave their swords around as much as they like, as long as they don't take a step forwards I'm just sitting there waiting patiently.
This usually means they die inches away from touching me.
I always watch the most distant foot of theirs. I just take a nice deep breath and don't worry about their shouts and feints.
That actually works better than what I was doing. Yoink!
edit: Holy crap I thought that major charm gave me 2 more Kunai ammo.
Instead it's letting me throw 5 kunai. Wtffffff
My act 3 is just gonna be a neverending storm.
edit2: oh my gaaaaawd you can use concentration with your blowgun. you can poison and berserk dudes in combat. I just berserked a fire archer and got myself some (literal) fire support. They do attack you afterwards tho.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Yeah, I'm done with this game. Responsive controls and satisfying combat are the biggest factors in my enjoyment and this game is lacking. I loved Sekiro's combat and still feel it's the most satisfying entry in the genre by a wide margin in just about every aspect: aesthetic, story, themes... But especially combat. Like, Dark Souls 3 lost it for me when I realized it was easier to kill most players than it was to kill most of the monsters, and now Ghost lost me when I can't input dodge timing or standoff timing well enough to have the gameplay I want. Granted, I'm getting a little older and my reflexes are a little slower, but they're not that slow, (I get tested between each deployment). Hats off to you Morninglord and Chance for the patience to git gud here. 今から、君に任せ。
italianranma on
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
0
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
This is my excuse for throwing sticky bombs and black powder bombs and kunai's everywhere now.
I mean, I have this armor, it'd just be a waste of stats if I didn't use it right?
I crept into a base, stabbed an archer, killed two more archers with the bow. Someone saw one of the archers across the way and did his little toot on the horn, so they all crowded around the corpse.
So I threw a black powder bomb at them across the entire encampment. They saw it coming, but it was too late to run.
The one thing that makes me sad about the kensei armor is that particular stat line being useless in duels when the character you get it from seems to be all about duels. Definitely feels a bit weird and as awesome as it sounds in practice on regular mooks it's still basically useless because hitting a regular mook with a ghost weapon means they are dead without being able to fight back anyway.
My fav armor though so I'll be wearing it the rest of the game anyway!
DemonStacey on
0
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited August 2020
You know, when you can only make duels challenging by giving an enemy a ton of relentless quick unparryable attacks, the system you’ve built probably doesn’t work that well.
Edit: I think I am nearly done now. One last boss fight?
Edit2: Great my game has bugged and without restarting I cannot get the Platinum. I am forever going to be unable to complete the Inari shrine trophy because it has not recognised I have done all of them.
Edit3: Finished. Great game, but I feel Act 3 was a bit rushed and didn’t reach the highs of act 2. And again, fuck the final duels just being battles of relentlessly fast unblockable attacks.
This is my excuse for throwing sticky bombs and black powder bombs and kunai's everywhere now.
I mean, I have this armor, it'd just be a waste of stats if I didn't use it right?
I crept into a base, stabbed an archer, killed two more archers with the bow. Someone saw one of the archers across the way and did his little toot on the horn, so they all crowded around the corpse.
So I threw a black powder bomb at them across the entire encampment. They saw it coming, but it was too late to run.
The one thing that makes me sad about the kensei armor is that particular stat line being useless in duels when the character you get it from seems to be all about duels. Definitely feels a bit weird and as awesome as it sounds in practice on regular mooks it's still basically useless because hitting a regular mook with a ghost weapon means they are dead without being able to fight back anyway.
My fav armor though so I'll be wearing it the rest of the game anyway!
Nah it's good for black powder bombs and the splash damage from sticky bombs. Where a few might survive before....now they don't. Very handy in extremely large engagements.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
0
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
This is my excuse for throwing sticky bombs and black powder bombs and kunai's everywhere now.
I mean, I have this armor, it'd just be a waste of stats if I didn't use it right?
I crept into a base, stabbed an archer, killed two more archers with the bow. Someone saw one of the archers across the way and did his little toot on the horn, so they all crowded around the corpse.
So I threw a black powder bomb at them across the entire encampment. They saw it coming, but it was too late to run.
The one thing that makes me sad about the kensei armor is that particular stat line being useless in duels when the character you get it from seems to be all about duels. Definitely feels a bit weird and as awesome as it sounds in practice on regular mooks it's still basically useless because hitting a regular mook with a ghost weapon means they are dead without being able to fight back anyway.
My fav armor though so I'll be wearing it the rest of the game anyway!
Nah it's good for black powder bombs and the splash damage from sticky bombs. Where a few might survive before....now they don't. Very handy in extremely large engagements.
But why do that if it doesn't just kill them when you have other tools that would?
If you're going for the avoiding being efficient for challenge then it is moot but if you are being efficient and using your tools you could throw kunai and be auto killing 3(or 5) per usage(so 15(or 25) + however many kunai you pick up off the bodies) where the kensei bonus would never come into play since they would die before they attack. Or smoke bombs which is also instant kill on everyone in there.
I just can't think of a point in the game where there would be so many enemies you would end up using tools beyond that if they are killing enemies less efficiently.
Just seems like weird design!
0
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
This is my excuse for throwing sticky bombs and black powder bombs and kunai's everywhere now.
I mean, I have this armor, it'd just be a waste of stats if I didn't use it right?
I crept into a base, stabbed an archer, killed two more archers with the bow. Someone saw one of the archers across the way and did his little toot on the horn, so they all crowded around the corpse.
So I threw a black powder bomb at them across the entire encampment. They saw it coming, but it was too late to run.
The one thing that makes me sad about the kensei armor is that particular stat line being useless in duels when the character you get it from seems to be all about duels. Definitely feels a bit weird and as awesome as it sounds in practice on regular mooks it's still basically useless because hitting a regular mook with a ghost weapon means they are dead without being able to fight back anyway.
My fav armor though so I'll be wearing it the rest of the game anyway!
Nah it's good for black powder bombs and the splash damage from sticky bombs. Where a few might survive before....now they don't. Very handy in extremely large engagements.
But why do that if it doesn't just kill them when you have other tools that would?
If you're going for the avoiding being efficient for challenge then it is moot but if you are being efficient and using your tools you could throw kunai and be auto killing 3(or 5) per usage(so 15(or 25) + however many kunai you pick up off the bodies) where the kensei bonus would never come into play since they would die before they attack. Or smoke bombs which is also instant kill on everyone in there.
I just can't think of a point in the game where there would be so many enemies you would end up using tools beyond that if they are killing enemies less efficiently.
Just seems like weird design!
Black powder bombs are ridiculously efficient. So are sticky bombs. Neither have a target limit.
There's plenty of situations where they're stronger than kunai or smokebombs. Starting from act 2 you start getting swarms of enemies.
Also it also applies to the kunai, so now your kunai are instant kills.
I mean, I get that you can't think of any of these situations and are having trouble thinking of times when there were enough people that a bpb is better. But I have encountered them, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree there.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
(SNIP) 'I'm one-shotting all of you from the back because fuck you and the horse you rode in on!!'
Actually, that's probably what the Mongols are saying to me, as I'm now beginning every encounter by riding full-tilt into the camp and leaping from the saddle into a critical strike.
I've taken to calling it the "Sakai Surprise"...
PSN: ImRyanBurgundy
+3
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
This is my excuse for throwing sticky bombs and black powder bombs and kunai's everywhere now.
I mean, I have this armor, it'd just be a waste of stats if I didn't use it right?
I crept into a base, stabbed an archer, killed two more archers with the bow. Someone saw one of the archers across the way and did his little toot on the horn, so they all crowded around the corpse.
So I threw a black powder bomb at them across the entire encampment. They saw it coming, but it was too late to run.
The one thing that makes me sad about the kensei armor is that particular stat line being useless in duels when the character you get it from seems to be all about duels. Definitely feels a bit weird and as awesome as it sounds in practice on regular mooks it's still basically useless because hitting a regular mook with a ghost weapon means they are dead without being able to fight back anyway.
My fav armor though so I'll be wearing it the rest of the game anyway!
Nah it's good for black powder bombs and the splash damage from sticky bombs. Where a few might survive before....now they don't. Very handy in extremely large engagements.
But why do that if it doesn't just kill them when you have other tools that would?
If you're going for the avoiding being efficient for challenge then it is moot but if you are being efficient and using your tools you could throw kunai and be auto killing 3(or 5) per usage(so 15(or 25) + however many kunai you pick up off the bodies) where the kensei bonus would never come into play since they would die before they attack. Or smoke bombs which is also instant kill on everyone in there.
I just can't think of a point in the game where there would be so many enemies you would end up using tools beyond that if they are killing enemies less efficiently.
Just seems like weird design!
Black powder bombs are ridiculously efficient. So are sticky bombs. Neither have a target limit.
There's plenty of situations where they're stronger than kunai or smokebombs. Starting from act 2 you start getting swarms of enemies.
Also it also applies to the kunai, so now your kunai are instant kills.
I mean, I get that you can't think of any of these situations and are having trouble thinking of times when there were enough people that a bpb is better. But I have encountered them, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree there.
Kunai are always instant kills though! That's probably why it feels so weird to me because those are the only ghost tools I have used. The enemies are wobbled for so long that you can just walk up and smack them until they die even the big dudes. So lowering the damage the deal does nothing and increasing damage against them also doesn't matter. In duels it would be awesome though.
This is my excuse for throwing sticky bombs and black powder bombs and kunai's everywhere now.
I mean, I have this armor, it'd just be a waste of stats if I didn't use it right?
I crept into a base, stabbed an archer, killed two more archers with the bow. Someone saw one of the archers across the way and did his little toot on the horn, so they all crowded around the corpse.
So I threw a black powder bomb at them across the entire encampment. They saw it coming, but it was too late to run.
The one thing that makes me sad about the kensei armor is that particular stat line being useless in duels when the character you get it from seems to be all about duels. Definitely feels a bit weird and as awesome as it sounds in practice on regular mooks it's still basically useless because hitting a regular mook with a ghost weapon means they are dead without being able to fight back anyway.
My fav armor though so I'll be wearing it the rest of the game anyway!
Nah it's good for black powder bombs and the splash damage from sticky bombs. Where a few might survive before....now they don't. Very handy in extremely large engagements.
But why do that if it doesn't just kill them when you have other tools that would?
If you're going for the avoiding being efficient for challenge then it is moot but if you are being efficient and using your tools you could throw kunai and be auto killing 3(or 5) per usage(so 15(or 25) + however many kunai you pick up off the bodies) where the kensei bonus would never come into play since they would die before they attack. Or smoke bombs which is also instant kill on everyone in there.
I just can't think of a point in the game where there would be so many enemies you would end up using tools beyond that if they are killing enemies less efficiently.
Just seems like weird design!
Black powder bombs are ridiculously efficient. So are sticky bombs. Neither have a target limit.
There's plenty of situations where they're stronger than kunai or smokebombs. Starting from act 2 you start getting swarms of enemies.
Also it also applies to the kunai, so now your kunai are instant kills.
I mean, I get that you can't think of any of these situations and are having trouble thinking of times when there were enough people that a bpb is better. But I have encountered them, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree there.
Kunai are always instant kills though! That's probably why it feels so weird to me because those are the only ghost tools I have used. The enemies are wobbled for so long that you can just walk up and smack them until they die even the big dudes. So lowering the damage the deal does nothing and increasing damage against them also doesn't matter. In duels it would be awesome though.
"And now we shall test your skill with a blade versus mine in honorable combat!"
"Agreed."
"Begin! Ow! The fuck? Did you just throw a fucking knife at me?"
"You said begin."
"The sword fight you dunce, not the ninja tricks fight! Your uncle was right, you do have no honor."
"Aw. Now I'm sad. Smoke bomb!"
"Motherfucker!"
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
+2
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
This is my excuse for throwing sticky bombs and black powder bombs and kunai's everywhere now.
I mean, I have this armor, it'd just be a waste of stats if I didn't use it right?
I crept into a base, stabbed an archer, killed two more archers with the bow. Someone saw one of the archers across the way and did his little toot on the horn, so they all crowded around the corpse.
So I threw a black powder bomb at them across the entire encampment. They saw it coming, but it was too late to run.
The one thing that makes me sad about the kensei armor is that particular stat line being useless in duels when the character you get it from seems to be all about duels. Definitely feels a bit weird and as awesome as it sounds in practice on regular mooks it's still basically useless because hitting a regular mook with a ghost weapon means they are dead without being able to fight back anyway.
My fav armor though so I'll be wearing it the rest of the game anyway!
Nah it's good for black powder bombs and the splash damage from sticky bombs. Where a few might survive before....now they don't. Very handy in extremely large engagements.
But why do that if it doesn't just kill them when you have other tools that would?
If you're going for the avoiding being efficient for challenge then it is moot but if you are being efficient and using your tools you could throw kunai and be auto killing 3(or 5) per usage(so 15(or 25) + however many kunai you pick up off the bodies) where the kensei bonus would never come into play since they would die before they attack. Or smoke bombs which is also instant kill on everyone in there.
I just can't think of a point in the game where there would be so many enemies you would end up using tools beyond that if they are killing enemies less efficiently.
Just seems like weird design!
Black powder bombs are ridiculously efficient. So are sticky bombs. Neither have a target limit.
There's plenty of situations where they're stronger than kunai or smokebombs. Starting from act 2 you start getting swarms of enemies.
Also it also applies to the kunai, so now your kunai are instant kills.
I mean, I get that you can't think of any of these situations and are having trouble thinking of times when there were enough people that a bpb is better. But I have encountered them, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree there.
Kunai are always instant kills though! That's probably why it feels so weird to me because those are the only ghost tools I have used. The enemies are wobbled for so long that you can just walk up and smack them until they die even the big dudes. So lowering the damage the deal does nothing and increasing damage against them also doesn't matter. In duels it would be awesome though.
"And now we shall test your skill with a blade versus mine in honorable combat!"
"Agreed."
"Begin! Ow! The fuck? Did you just throw a fucking knife at me?"
"You said begin."
"The sword fight you dunce, not the ninja tricks fight! Your uncle was right, you do have no honor."
"Aw. Now I'm sad. Smoke bomb!"
"Motherfucker!"
Oh for sure, would require some changes to the system.
But that's also why I say it's weird on that particular armor. And then again weird because it's just not super well set up to work with the way the combat works any way.
Just kinda a weird perk already but even weirder to be placed on that set.
Posts
Short dodge everything.
If it's an unblockable string, you dodge again (and again, if necessary)
If it's a parryable combo, you parry the second hit.
There is no "unblockable vs parryable" initial mixup to any of their attacks, because dodge works on all of them. It cannot be punished. It cannot be the wrong option. It neuters the mixup.
Once you've dodged the first attack you always know what the next move will be. They never change their attacks mid combo.
Its analogous to a 3d fighting game that lets you sidestep, and you are in a situation where you have to choose between blocking low or standing, but then side step turns out to avoid both moves. Why choose? Why guess? Why bother reacting? You don't have to.
edit: I can perfect parry the second hit of pretty much every regular combo duellists use if I bother to concentrate on doing it. First hit? I dunno. Never had to bother learning.
PSN: Threeve703
In tekken it's commonly used to talk about how to avoid enemy offensive options with movement.
Basically there will be characters with options that you can avoid by doing specific movements. Say a character has a common low versus stand block mixup, but the low can't be sidestepped, but is slower than the mid, which can be sidestepped.
You would sidestep, quickly block low, then back to standing. Done with the right timing its a rote set of movements that will automatically side step the mid and block the low, no guess work on your part necessary. So it automatically "selects" the right defense for each offensive "option".
Only in tekken you can punish this if they know you are doing it by doing a different move not part of the usual mixup that catches side step.
Alas the duellists aren't so lucky. None of them can punish a short dodge. They can punish a roll dodge by chasing it down, but not a short dodge. It recovers too quickly.
The only caveat is the sweep, which does track on lethal (but not hard). But that's quite slow, and infrequently used. If they don't have that sweep, it's impossible to hit you if you dodge first. So one attack out of all of their options, that very few duellists even have, beats this. One. And only on lethal, cos on hard it just whiffs anyway.
I dunno what I was expecting really. They can't really make it frequently punishable without enraging everyone on the planet. Probably me as well. Their system is too fixed for that. Instead what they basically do is just add another unblockable, so I'm dodging three times in succession. It doesn't get any harder the more they add tho, the timing is fixed in between each strike. If you can dodge it twice, you can dodge it three times.
PSN: Threeve703
PSN: Threeve703
https://www.suckerpunch.com/ghost-of-tsushima-patch-1-06-details/
This is because of what I said earlier. It was a huge design flaw for the makers of this game to separate attack, dodge, run, jump, duck, parry, heal, throw Ku air, throw wind chime, throw smoke bomb, throw black powder bomb, draw bow, shoot arrow, collect supplies/linens, change into travelers attire, change into previous outfit, heavenly blow, and grapes of wrath into different buttons. Why they didn’t just program everything to R2 and just make everything context sensitive is beyond me and it would have eliminated ambiguity.
PSN: Threeve703
I don't blame you but you might see more of the terms coming up in the future. Looking at this game, Sekiro, 4Honor, and probably others you can see some fighting game type mechanics sneaking into the third-person melee action genre.
It works either way.
How dare you accuse me of plagiarism! I never engage in parrotry.
It is completely fair in a 'I hate this' kind of way, where many of the Mongols are only guilty of using exactly the same tools as you are. By Act 3 I'm guessing using moves like Dance of Wrath become the new Standoff, and most people are completely done with honor by that point. By that point I'd guess most people are using all the Ghost tools and stealth kills and just screwing with the enemy as much as possible. Which honestly if that's how the game is set up, I kinda dig that evolution of gameplay... from 'I'm one-shotting all of you face to face because I'm badass' to 'I'm one-shotting all of you from the back because fuck you and the horse you rode in on!!'
I have enjoyed the game a lot, but I am ready to be done and move into something else.
Also, it's less of a personal hit depending on how you've been playing. If you've been blowing up Mongol horses all game, I mean... what do you want?
Okay, yeah, Act 3 is just such a step down in every respect so far. Or maybe it's always been like this and I just never noticed.
My first act of free-roaming was to try and collect some pieces of armor. So I ride north to a mongol camp, clear it out completely, and blow it up.
Fade to black, and I'm somehow in the middle of the camp, surrounded by Mongols, all of whom were apparently hiding in the snow just outside of view the entire time, and their leader. Whom I duel and kill for the armor piece. Then I immediately awkwardly kneel as soon as he calls, get the item, then stay there while all the Mongols, who magically showed up in the first place despite me ruining their camp with siege weapons, slowly run away again. What the hell?
So far, the best thing I can say about Act 3 is that at least the Ghost armor looks kind of cool, and the game treating Shimura's 'don't do war crimes' like such a huge ask, and immediately following your doing of war crimes with 'oh no! now the war crimes are being done on me!' was very good comeuppance which I appreciated.
In fact I fix my gaze not on them, but on the space just in front of them, in the space between us. I'm watching their body only with peripheral vision.
As soon as they intrude in that space, I let go. They can wave their swords around as much as they like, as long as they don't take a step forwards I'm just sitting there waiting patiently.
This usually means they die inches away from touching me.
I've started fixating on Jin rather than the enemy so if their body moves closer in my periphery I let go, kind of like what you are saying, Lord. It's better than before. I still somehow get tricked with feints now and then, though, even doing that.
I'll try to look at more feet.
If anyone in this thread starts talking about fuzzy guard I'm out.
The cutscene and use of the song was horribly sad but also beautiful. I don’t feel it was cheap at all.
I stopped caring about honor in Act 1 when I noticed there were easily over twenty enemies in the same area but there was also a brazier of coals hanging over a section of the courtyard. I bought the Firecracker upgrade, tossed one underneath the brazier, and watched as the enemies all swarmed like lemmings towards the pretty light and noise. Then I nocked a plain arrow, shot the brazier, and set them all ablaze to die in seconds. A big, armored leader then came out to see the carnage, I loaded up a heavy arrow with the longbow, and promptly headshot him for an instant kill.
I can't go back to dueling every single person individually after tasting that kind of power
This is my excuse for throwing sticky bombs and black powder bombs and kunai's everywhere now.
I mean, I have this armor, it'd just be a waste of stats if I didn't use it right?
I crept into a base, stabbed an archer, killed two more archers with the bow. Someone saw one of the archers across the way and did his little toot on the horn, so they all crowded around the corpse.
So I threw a black powder bomb at them across the entire encampment. They saw it coming, but it was too late to run.
But my favorite is the poisoned wind chimes. That is some funny stuff.
I always watch the most distant foot of theirs. I just take a nice deep breath and don't worry about their shouts and feints.
That actually works better than what I was doing. Yoink!
edit: Holy crap I thought that major charm gave me 2 more Kunai ammo.
Instead it's letting me throw 5 kunai. Wtffffff
My act 3 is just gonna be a neverending storm.
edit2: oh my gaaaaawd you can use concentration with your blowgun. you can poison and berserk dudes in combat. I just berserked a fire archer and got myself some (literal) fire support. They do attack you afterwards tho.
It is so satisfying to gather like 10 mongols around one Firecracker and then kill them all with a Blackpowder Bomb.
The one thing that makes me sad about the kensei armor is that particular stat line being useless in duels when the character you get it from seems to be all about duels. Definitely feels a bit weird and as awesome as it sounds in practice on regular mooks it's still basically useless because hitting a regular mook with a ghost weapon means they are dead without being able to fight back anyway.
My fav armor though so I'll be wearing it the rest of the game anyway!
Edit: I think I am nearly done now. One last boss fight?
Edit2: Great my game has bugged and without restarting I cannot get the Platinum. I am forever going to be unable to complete the Inari shrine trophy because it has not recognised I have done all of them.
Edit3: Finished. Great game, but I feel Act 3 was a bit rushed and didn’t reach the highs of act 2. And again, fuck the final duels just being battles of relentlessly fast unblockable attacks.
Nah it's good for black powder bombs and the splash damage from sticky bombs. Where a few might survive before....now they don't. Very handy in extremely large engagements.
But why do that if it doesn't just kill them when you have other tools that would?
If you're going for the avoiding being efficient for challenge then it is moot but if you are being efficient and using your tools you could throw kunai and be auto killing 3(or 5) per usage(so 15(or 25) + however many kunai you pick up off the bodies) where the kensei bonus would never come into play since they would die before they attack. Or smoke bombs which is also instant kill on everyone in there.
I just can't think of a point in the game where there would be so many enemies you would end up using tools beyond that if they are killing enemies less efficiently.
Just seems like weird design!
Black powder bombs are ridiculously efficient. So are sticky bombs. Neither have a target limit.
There's plenty of situations where they're stronger than kunai or smokebombs. Starting from act 2 you start getting swarms of enemies.
Also it also applies to the kunai, so now your kunai are instant kills.
I mean, I get that you can't think of any of these situations and are having trouble thinking of times when there were enough people that a bpb is better. But I have encountered them, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree there.
Actually, that's probably what the Mongols are saying to me, as I'm now beginning every encounter by riding full-tilt into the camp and leaping from the saddle into a critical strike.
I've taken to calling it the "Sakai Surprise"...
Kunai are always instant kills though! That's probably why it feels so weird to me because those are the only ghost tools I have used. The enemies are wobbled for so long that you can just walk up and smack them until they die even the big dudes. So lowering the damage the deal does nothing and increasing damage against them also doesn't matter. In duels it would be awesome though.
"And now we shall test your skill with a blade versus mine in honorable combat!"
"Agreed."
"Begin! Ow! The fuck? Did you just throw a fucking knife at me?"
"You said begin."
"The sword fight you dunce, not the ninja tricks fight! Your uncle was right, you do have no honor."
"Aw. Now I'm sad. Smoke bomb!"
"Motherfucker!"
Oh for sure, would require some changes to the system.
But that's also why I say it's weird on that particular armor. And then again weird because it's just not super well set up to work with the way the combat works any way.
Just kinda a weird perk already but even weirder to be placed on that set.