Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I am not at all religious anymore but I still get incredibly angry when I look at the New Testament and then look at Evangelicals.
Like, did you even read this shit? What are you doing every Sunday? How do you read "suffer unto me the little children" or "Therefore love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt" then go whole hog on locking kids up in cages and sending their parents back to die in war torn countries?
They got stuck on the Old Testament fire and brimstone and genocide and slavery and shit and thought "hell yeah that's awesome we need more of that!"
I maintain the biggest mistake mainstream Christianity ever made was canonizing the Old Testament and not completely ignoring it in favor of the New Testament. Because really, the OT only exists as a means to lay the ground work for the coming of Jesus Christ, and, at least the way I always interpreted it, to highlight the complete failure of spiritual legality as a means of salvation. Sin was a problem, and the Ten Commandments, the temple and the litany of rules and rites needed to sanctify the individual on a perpetual basis was a temporary means to an end. It was ultimately completely unsustainable. Jesus was meant to be the be all end all on salvation. Got Jesus? Cool. You might still fuck up but you're not getting catapulted straight to hell if you pick up sticks on the Sabbath. Everybody can get into the club. Nobody is better than anybody else. Eat with prostitutes and gentiles and tax collectors and don't even think about casting the first stone because we all know you are not without sin, Gary.
No clue if this is historically accurate but the story I was always told was that, in Judea at the time, a Roman soldier could demand a citizen carry their armor and gear and the citizen was legally required to carry it for like, a mile. Jesus said carry it for two. Be a joyful servant to others, even your oppressors. I mean, Jesus Christ the goddamned son of goddamned God, one part of the Holy Trinity, the spirit made flesh, got down on his knees and washed the feet of the apostles as a show of humility, servitude and grace.
It is completely lost on America, this "Christian Nation"
Doesn't that not really square with the fact that the new testament kind of invented the hell that jesus was also theoretically absolving everyone of?
Hell is referred to in the Old Testament as well if I remember, it's just not called Hell and there's no fire and brimstone. It's described as being a place of cold and darkness, though less from it being Hell and more from the natural cause/effect of being outside God's light. No one rules it because it's a place of eternal suffering for everyone, even the fallen angels.
If a copy of the Old Testament refers to anything as hell that's probably a mistranslation of Sheol -> Hades -> Hell
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Revelations does get credit for providing a near unlimited source of heavy metal album inspiration.
Minus a couple million credit for the whole idea of the Mark of the Beast that all the fundies start shrieking about whenever anything to do with chips or identification numbers start getting bandied about
They're the same thing, it's just that conceptions evolved
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I am not at all religious anymore but I still get incredibly angry when I look at the New Testament and then look at Evangelicals.
Like, did you even read this shit? What are you doing every Sunday? How do you read "suffer unto me the little children" or "Therefore love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt" then go whole hog on locking kids up in cages and sending their parents back to die in war torn countries?
They got stuck on the Old Testament fire and brimstone and genocide and slavery and shit and thought "hell yeah that's awesome we need more of that!"
I maintain the biggest mistake mainstream Christianity ever made was canonizing the Old Testament and not completely ignoring it in favor of the New Testament. Because really, the OT only exists as a means to lay the ground work for the coming of Jesus Christ, and, at least the way I always interpreted it, to highlight the complete failure of spiritual legality as a means of salvation. Sin was a problem, and the Ten Commandments, the temple and the litany of rules and rites needed to sanctify the individual on a perpetual basis was a temporary means to an end. It was ultimately completely unsustainable. Jesus was meant to be the be all end all on salvation. Got Jesus? Cool. You might still fuck up but you're not getting catapulted straight to hell if you pick up sticks on the Sabbath. Everybody can get into the club. Nobody is better than anybody else. Eat with prostitutes and gentiles and tax collectors and don't even think about casting the first stone because we all know you are not without sin, Gary.
No clue if this is historically accurate but the story I was always told was that, in Judea at the time, a Roman soldier could demand a citizen carry their armor and gear and the citizen was legally required to carry it for like, a mile. Jesus said carry it for two. Be a joyful servant to others, even your oppressors. I mean, Jesus Christ the goddamned son of goddamned God, one part of the Holy Trinity, the spirit made flesh, got down on his knees and washed the feet of the apostles as a show of humility, servitude and grace.
It is completely lost on America, this "Christian Nation"
Doesn't that not really square with the fact that the new testament kind of invented the hell that jesus was also theoretically absolving everyone of?
Hell is referred to in the Old Testament as well if I remember, it's just not called Hell and there's no fire and brimstone. It's described as being a place of cold and darkness, though less from it being Hell and more from the natural cause/effect of being outside God's light. No one rules it because it's a place of eternal suffering for everyone, even the fallen angels.
If a copy of the Old Testament refers to anything as hell that's probably a mistranslation of Sheol -> Hades -> Hell
I just said it's not called hell. It wasn't referred to by any name, just as a place or state of being after death without God
The best thing about all the Mark of the Beast shit is that it's not a number at all, it's a symbol, like the Mark of Cain. So all these people afraid of 666 or whatever are not just missing the forest for the trees, they're intentionally planting bad trees in their own brain!
For all we know, the Mark of the Beast is a fuckin' dickbutt.
If hardcore Christians actually were Christ-like then they'd be amongst my favourite people tbh
I'm not religious at all, but I had this argument with my Mum. I think that Jesus said some pretty radical (literally!) things that we should definitely be doing
They're the same thing, it's just that conceptions evolved
I know a lot of people who would disagree that Sheol is the same thing as Hell.
if we go by (one particular version of) Jewish legend there are multiple hells, of which one is Sheol
one has scorpions that have 3000 body segments each, with each segment containing 7000 poison sacs, which come together to form seven rivers of poison
if someone picks one up the poison causes them to burst, and all of their limbs fall off
then they fall on their face for good measure
meanwhile, the righteous get to chill in heaven, where they eat a bird that is so big that a single one of its eggs, when cracked, flooded sixty cities
I am making none of this up, it's all in actual Jewish legend
(although these legends aren't from the torah, so it's of arguable canonicity)
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
If hardcore Christians actually were Christ-like then they'd be amongst my favourite people tbh
I'm not religious at all, but I had this argument with my Mum. I think that Jesus said some pretty radical (literally!) things that we should definitely be doing
I mean, they exist. My cousin is an episcopal priest and he really hated that one of the local priests lived in a fancy house (financed by his previous job and his wife) because he felt it was contrary to Christian morals.
The problem is that they are few and far between and heavily outnumbered.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I honestly know very few Christians and the one genuine, church every weekend Christian I do know is awesome
But I also feel that the CofE is pretty awful and I have no time for an organisation which is textually homophobic and transphobic. I feel like any kind of religion which says things like "really, you can only be having sex with the opposite sex, and only in the context of marriage, or it's a sin" just has no business existing, and that's what the CofE says, so it can die for all I care.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
They're the same thing, it's just that conceptions evolved
I know a lot of people who would disagree that Sheol is the same thing as Hell.
if we go by (one particular version of) Jewish legend there are multiple hells, of which one is Sheol
one has scorpions that have 3000 body segments each, with each segment containing 7000 poison sacs, which come together to form seven rivers of poison
if someone picks one up the poison causes them to burst, and all of their limbs fall off
then they fall on their face for good measure
meanwhile, the righteous get to chill in heaven, where they eat a bird that is so big that a single one of its eggs, when cracked, flooded sixty cities
I am making none of this up, it's all in actual Jewish legend
(although these legends aren't from the torah, so it's of arguable canonicity)
That is extremely cool shit but yeah I'm talking about the canon stuff not like Paul's blog to the Corinthians type stuff.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Don't you ever act embarassed by your crazy old drugged up Uncle Revelations you listen to that demented ranting you pay attention, you might doubt it but what that total maniac is shouting right now may well save your life one day
Well I guess my cousin who is married to the libertarian is further down the conspiracy hole than presumed. Covid is a hoax, Inslee is a dictator, all that kinda stuff. How if Inslee lost in November and was replaced by Culp who then removed the lockdown and opened everything up would we still come up for Christmas? Everything on the internet is a lie and has been infiltrated, but refuses to share sources because they are gone from the internet and if you're not a hacker you can't get to them. When asked if she believed in qanon just kind of laughed and then said she had to go.
Aistan on
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Brovid Hasselsmof[Growling historic on the fury road]Registered Userregular
I'm not sure what I expected all these new posts to be about but "the bible" definitely wasn't it
De-canonising the old testament might also stop evangelicals doing that weird co-opting of judaism which every jewish person I know finds offensive and creepy.
I kinda feel like we need to reboot the whole bible.
re-write it, cut it down a few several hundred pages.
like, it was an instruction manual for living and dealing with a cruel, proud, vengeful, and above all, actually present God.
it's not like, applicable anymore.
what do you mean, how could anything be more applicable than the word of god rendered directly and accurately into the vernacular
Hello, Dad, up there in good ol’ Heaven,
Your name is well great and holy, and we respect you, Guv.
We hope we can all ‘ave a butcher’s at Heaven and be there as soon as possible: and we want to make you happy, Guv, and do what you want ‘ere on earth, just like what you do in Heaven.
Guv, please give us some Uncle Fred, and enough grub and stuff to keep us going today, and we hope you’ll forgive us when we cock things up, just like we’re supposed to forgive them who annoy us and do dodgy stuff to us.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I kinda feel like we need to reboot the whole bible.
re-write it, cut it down a few several hundred pages.
like, it was an instruction manual for living and dealing with a cruel, proud, vengeful, and above all, actually present God.
it's not like, applicable anymore.
what do you mean, how could anything be more applicable than the word of god rendered directly and accurately into the vernacular
Hello, Dad, up there in good ol’ Heaven,
Your name is well great and holy, and we respect you, Guv.
We hope we can all ‘ave a butcher’s at Heaven and be there as soon as possible: and we want to make you happy, Guv, and do what you want ‘ere on earth, just like what you do in Heaven.
Guv, please give us some Uncle Fred, and enough grub and stuff to keep us going today, and we hope you’ll forgive us when we cock things up, just like we’re supposed to forgive them who annoy us and do dodgy stuff to us.
While we figure out what to do with the Bible can we at start by flinging all of the prosperity gospel people into the sea, like the deep part? gosh I hate that whole thing.
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
sheol only becomes a place of punishment in the second temple period, and even then it's not consistent
My understanding (presented here in hopes that it will be corrected by those more in the know) is that in ancient Jewish cosmology, the Earth was a tract of land literally held up by four pillars (various points in the Bible refer to acts of God that "shake the four pillars of the earth"; this was not figurative). The zone of absolute emptiness above which the earth was suspended was Sheol, the pit. There are references at various times of sinners being cast into Sheol and thereby separated from God; this was, again, fairly literally intended. In the end of days the unworthy would be dumped into an unending darkness below the earth with no hope of return.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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KetarCome on upstairswe're having a partyRegistered Userregular
Of all the terrible crazy shit that's happened in 2020 I think that's the one that's convinced me this is the end times
We had an absurd number of cucumbers. Even after just eating a bunch in salads and other things, we used a 8-10 pint jars for pickling and then used another 5 or 6 quart jars for more a week later.
Also a ton of various peppers, so we made hot sauce for the first time and it is delicious. Ended up making a (pint) jar and a half.
Of all the terrible crazy shit that's happened in 2020 I think that's the one that's convinced me this is the end times
We had an absurd number of cucumbers. Even after just eating a bunch in salads and other things, we used a 8-10 pint jars for pickling and then used another 5 or 6 quart jars for more a week later.
Also a ton of various peppers, so we made hot sauce for the first time and it is delicious. Ended up making a (pint) jar and a half.
I also made hot sauce this weekend. I had too many habaneros. It came out great but I don't need this much hot sauce, gonna buy some little bottles to give to people.
Of all the terrible crazy shit that's happened in 2020 I think that's the one that's convinced me this is the end times
We had an absurd number of cucumbers. Even after just eating a bunch in salads and other things, we used a 8-10 pint jars for pickling and then used another 5 or 6 quart jars for more a week later.
Also a ton of various peppers, so we made hot sauce for the first time and it is delicious. Ended up making a (pint) jar and a half.
I also made hot sauce this weekend. I had too many habaneros. It came out great but I don't need this much hot sauce, gonna buy some little bottles to give to people.
Yeah, my wife picked up some little bottles so that we could do the same. We probably have another batch to make later this week, and we already have too much for ourselves.
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
We got lucky. House is still standing and no worse for wear. Cleaned out the fridge and freezer and did a dump run. Power is back on and now we’re waiting for the evac level to go down before taking the cats back. Hopefully tomorrow.
So many folks werent nearly so lucky though. Going into look into how to help once we get settled. Maybe do some animal fostering.
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If a copy of the Old Testament refers to anything as hell that's probably a mistranslation of Sheol -> Hades -> Hell
Minus a couple million credit for the whole idea of the Mark of the Beast that all the fundies start shrieking about whenever anything to do with chips or identification numbers start getting bandied about
I know a lot of people who would disagree that Sheol is the same thing as Hell.
I just said it's not called hell. It wasn't referred to by any name, just as a place or state of being after death without God
For all we know, the Mark of the Beast is a fuckin' dickbutt.
I'm not religious at all, but I had this argument with my Mum. I think that Jesus said some pretty radical (literally!) things that we should definitely be doing
if we go by (one particular version of) Jewish legend there are multiple hells, of which one is Sheol
one has scorpions that have 3000 body segments each, with each segment containing 7000 poison sacs, which come together to form seven rivers of poison
if someone picks one up the poison causes them to burst, and all of their limbs fall off
then they fall on their face for good measure
meanwhile, the righteous get to chill in heaven, where they eat a bird that is so big that a single one of its eggs, when cracked, flooded sixty cities
I am making none of this up, it's all in actual Jewish legend
(although these legends aren't from the torah, so it's of arguable canonicity)
I mean, they exist. My cousin is an episcopal priest and he really hated that one of the local priests lived in a fancy house (financed by his previous job and his wife) because he felt it was contrary to Christian morals.
The problem is that they are few and far between and heavily outnumbered.
But I also feel that the CofE is pretty awful and I have no time for an organisation which is textually homophobic and transphobic. I feel like any kind of religion which says things like "really, you can only be having sex with the opposite sex, and only in the context of marriage, or it's a sin" just has no business existing, and that's what the CofE says, so it can die for all I care.
That is extremely cool shit but yeah I'm talking about the canon stuff not like Paul's blog to the Corinthians type stuff.
So we went out and got a 65 gallon tank.
I feel exhausted, though im not coughing, climbing the stairs wears me out. Lying in bed sweating profusely.
I feel like I've got a weight on my chest.
Whatever this is it's not pleasant.
For years I've been saying, "WWJD? For starters, he'd kick over your tables full of cheap WWJD merch and chase you around with a whip."
re-write it, cut it down a few several hundred pages.
like, it was an instruction manual for living and dealing with a cruel, proud, vengeful, and above all, actually present God.
it's not like, applicable anymore.
whether or not it's covid, it does sound awfully like a pneumonia of some kind.
what do you mean, how could anything be more applicable than the word of god rendered directly and accurately into the vernacular
( https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Cockney-Mike-Coles/dp/1841012173 )
Keep Genesis and Revelations ditch everything else.
Now to figure out what to put in 'em!
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Of all the terrible crazy shit that's happened in 2020 I think that's the one that's convinced me this is the end times
Cool.
We had an absurd number of cucumbers. Even after just eating a bunch in salads and other things, we used a 8-10 pint jars for pickling and then used another 5 or 6 quart jars for more a week later.
Also a ton of various peppers, so we made hot sauce for the first time and it is delicious. Ended up making a (pint) jar and a half.
I also made hot sauce this weekend. I had too many habaneros. It came out great but I don't need this much hot sauce, gonna buy some little bottles to give to people.
Yeah, my wife picked up some little bottles so that we could do the same. We probably have another batch to make later this week, and we already have too much for ourselves.
So many folks werent nearly so lucky though. Going into look into how to help once we get settled. Maybe do some animal fostering.
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