I love how there is all this talk about moral issues when it's been made pretty clear this was a game design decision due to the game not working the other way around.
You guys just keep yelling at each other. Enjoy it. I'm getting a root beer.
If you'd elaborate on that, you'd probably have a very good point.
But you didn't, so enjoy the sugar suds and know that this post made about as much difference as people yacking about the moral implications.
what's he supposed to elaborate on? his point was already discussed ad-nauseum in the pages prior, and that didn't stop anyone.
Umm... If the Little Sisters are immune to being shot and killed, why do they need the big daddies to protect them?
If they are un-murderable anyway, what is the use of the big daddy, it kinda takes you out of the sort of experience a bit. (Not that im saying i want to murder little girls, just saying it kinda breaks the plot a bit)
once you kill the big daddy, you can kill the girl. it would follow, then, that their invulnerability will be tied to the big daddy.
problem solved!
That's not going to happen. They don't want you killing the Little Sisters in any way other than some off-screen scripted sequence. Or, some nonviolent manner. Like they evaporate into your Adam collecting collector :P
It's been pretty spelled out that there's no way, for instance, that a grenade or pistol will EVER be a cause of death for one of these NPCs.
I love how there is all this talk about moral issues when it's been made pretty clear this was a game design decision due to the game not working the other way around.
You guys just keep yelling at each other. Enjoy it. I'm getting a root beer.
If you'd elaborate on that, you'd probably have a very good point.
But you didn't, so enjoy the sugar suds and know that this post made about as much difference as people yacking about the moral implications.
what's he supposed to elaborate on? his point was already discussed ad-nauseum in the pages prior, and that didn't stop anyone.
The mod community will add any functionality to the game that the developers failed to, or choose not to integrate.
Probably a decision based on the fact that they are more susceptible to public backlash, and would rather continue developing games, rather than deal with social ramifications and a ton of bad press. The mod community can operate with more impunity, so they're taking the responsibility of the decision off their shoulders by not really making it. Better for gamers.
Umm... If the Little Sisters are immune to being shot and killed, why do they need the big daddies to protect them?
If they are un-murderable anyway, what is the use of the big daddy, it kinda takes you out of the sort of experience a bit. (Not that im saying i want to murder little girls, just saying it kinda breaks the plot a bit)
once you kill the big daddy, you can kill the girl. it would follow, then, that their invulnerability will be tied to the big daddy.
problem solved!
That's not going to happen. They don't want you killing the Little Sisters in any way other than some off-screen scripted sequence. Or, some nonviolent manner. Like they evaporate into your Adam collecting collector :P
It's been pretty spelled out that there's no way, for instance, that a grenade or pistol will EVER be a cause of death for one of these NPCs.
whether you see it or not, you're still killing them. i.e. once the big daddy is gone, they are vulnerable. so yes, it is going to happen.
Umm... If the Little Sisters are immune to being shot and killed, why do they need the big daddies to protect them?
If they are un-murderable anyway, what is the use of the big daddy, it kinda takes you out of the sort of experience a bit. (Not that im saying i want to murder little girls, just saying it kinda breaks the plot a bit)
once you kill the big daddy, you can kill the girl. it would follow, then, that their invulnerability will be tied to the big daddy.
problem solved!
That's not going to happen. They don't want you killing the Little Sisters in any way other than some off-screen scripted sequence. Or, some nonviolent manner. Like they evaporate into your Adam collecting collector :P
It's been pretty spelled out that there's no way, for instance, that a grenade or pistol will EVER be a cause of death for one of these NPCs.
whether you see it or not, you're still killing them. i.e. once the big daddy is gone, they are vulnerable. so yes, it is going to happen.
Through a binary choice of harvest/save. Their method of invulnerability has to remain the same after the Big Daddy is gone because they still want to force you to use their canned method.
Your gun will probably lower automatically and they'll be immune to callateral damage.
The mod community will add any functionality to the game that the developers failed to, or choose not to integrate.
Probably a decision based on the fact that they are more susceptible to public backlash, and would rather continue developing games, rather than deal with social ramifications and a ton of bad press. The mod community can operate with more impunity, so they're taking the responsibility of the decision off their shoulders by not really making it. Better for gamers.
On this note, what with Hot Coffee, wouldn't this be a useless censorship move anyways?
I mean, would it really stop reactionary idiots if it took a mod to allow you to shoot the little kids?
Edit: You know what would be wonderful? If the "canned method" was a brutal, minutes long beating with a wrench. They're not censoring, they're afraid we're all wusses about child murder.
I love how there is all this talk about moral issues when it's been made pretty clear this was a game design decision due to the game not working the other way around.
You guys just keep yelling at each other. Enjoy it. I'm getting a root beer.
I still confused as to why them dying as collateral damage wasn't affecting the players, though. That sounds more like they're not doing a good enough job invoking empathy from the Little Sisters. Which actually is a problem.
Watch the first trailer walk through, Watch at 12:00 when the little sister dies. Watcha got? Nothing. Honestly, if you were playing the game like that and you wanted to save the little sisters what would you do. Quick Load. It'd just be annoying.
Watch the hunting the Big Daddy video, or more specifically the ending. Which of those do you want the game to be about?
And just to top it off, watch the latest trailer, because omg does the game look 100x better now.
Umm... If the Little Sisters are immune to being shot and killed, why do they need the big daddies to protect them?
If they are un-murderable anyway, what is the use of the big daddy, it kinda takes you out of the sort of experience a bit. (Not that im saying i want to murder little girls, just saying it kinda breaks the plot a bit)
once you kill the big daddy, you can kill the girl. it would follow, then, that their invulnerability will be tied to the big daddy.
problem solved!
That's not going to happen. They don't want you killing the Little Sisters in any way other than some off-screen scripted sequence. Or, some nonviolent manner. Like they evaporate into your Adam collecting collector :P
It's been pretty spelled out that there's no way, for instance, that a grenade or pistol will EVER be a cause of death for one of these NPCs.
whether you see it or not, you're still killing them. i.e. once the big daddy is gone, they are vulnerable. so yes, it is going to happen.
Through a binary choice of harvest/save. Their method of invulnerability has to remain the same after the Big Daddy is gone because they still want to force you to use their canned method.
Your gun will probably lower automatically and they'll be immune to callateral damage.
I wish I'd never used the word binary in the opening post. So, how does shooting them add to your choice? After all, this game isn't about the different ways you can kill little children.
I love how there is all this talk about moral issues when it's been made pretty clear this was a game design decision due to the game not working the other way around.
You guys just keep yelling at each other. Enjoy it. I'm getting a root beer.
I still confused as to why them dying as collateral damage wasn't affecting the players, though. That sounds more like they're not doing a good enough job invoking empathy from the Little Sisters. Which actually is a problem.
Watch the first trailer walk through, Watch at 12:00 when the little sister dies. Watcha got? Nothing. Honestly, if you were playing the game like that and you wanted to save the little sisters what would you do. Quick Load. It'd just be annoying.
Watch the hunting the Big Daddy video, or more specifically the ending. Which of those do you want the game to be about?
And just to top it off, watch the latest trailer, because omg does the game look 100x better now.
Actually, the more I think about it, I think people are just annoyed that only their character can kill these things. As in, it's a little bit less of an "ecology", because it's obviously you and only you that has any chance of interacting with these people in a meaningful manner. Now, if they can have a bunch of crazy blood-teleporting knife doctors take down a Big Daddy once in a while, and show them being able to "harvest" as well, that might make people feel much more a part of a internally consistent ecology.
I'm still concerned about the lack of variety in terms of NPCs. There are what, five different types of NPCs and they're all hostile? This might as well be Doom 4 with a more complex story. It looks just as linear and mindless to me.
Its not that an AO is going to deter people from buying the game, its that a LOT of stores refuse to sell AO games, period. With something like GTA for example, this isnt so much of a problem, because that shit would sell if it was just a pong minigame. But for a newe franchise they wanna really shift some units.
I'm still concerned about the lack of variety in terms of NPCs. There are what, five different types of NPCs and they're all hostile? This might as well be Doom 4 with a more complex story. It looks just as linear and mindless to me.
there are way more. in the new trailer you see about 6 new ones for brief seconds.
I'm still concerned about the lack of variety in terms of NPCs. There are what, five different types of NPCs and they're all hostile? This might as well be Doom 4 with a more complex story. It looks just as linear and mindless to me.
I had this worry originally with the old trailers, but at least some of them (the nurses at least) have proven to have alternate skins: and I'm guessing there're even more "types" under the covers.
I'm pretty sure that you'll interact with NPCs in a way that goes beyond voice-only radio messages: or at least that's the impression I'd got from an old interview.
Actually, the more I think about it, I think people are just annoyed that only their character can kill these things. As in, it's a little bit less of an "ecology", because it's obviously you and only you that has any chance of interacting with these people in a meaningful manner. Now, if they can have a bunch of crazy blood-teleporting knife doctors take down a Big Daddy once in a while, and show them being able to "harvest" as well, that might make people feel much more a part of a internally consistent ecology.
Except we don't really know how the ecology works. At the moment it looks like all the mutants are on one side. One of your guides is on the still human survivors side just trying to escape, and the other is trying to restore what she's done to the world. It's one of those cases where if you really want to go through this all, you're just going to end up spoilering the story for yourself. But certainly in all the videos we've seen the mutants appear friendly with the harvesting team.
Watching that new trailer, one thing that really stood out and bugged me was that everyone had the same right handed lunge and slam with weapon attack.
That and the amount of functional people while on fire. Though I'll chalk that up to genetic engineering.
Actually, the more I think about it, I think people are just annoyed that only their character can kill these things. As in, it's a little bit less of an "ecology", because it's obviously you and only you that has any chance of interacting with these people in a meaningful manner. Now, if they can have a bunch of crazy blood-teleporting knife doctors take down a Big Daddy once in a while, and show them being able to "harvest" as well, that might make people feel much more a part of a internally consistent ecology.
Except we don't really know how the ecology works. At the moment it looks like all the mutants are on one side. One of your guides is on the still human survivors side just trying to escape, and the other is trying to restore what she's done to the world. It's one of those cases where if you really want to go through this all, you're just going to end up spoilering the story for yourself. But certainly in all the videos we've seen the mutants appear friendly with the harvesting team.
There is also the fact that it would make no sense for them to kill the little sisters. If they kill one to get a bit of the Adam, they will lose future Adam because the little sister can't produce more of it.
Actually, the more I think about it, I think people are just annoyed that only their character can kill these things. As in, it's a little bit less of an "ecology", because it's obviously you and only you that has any chance of interacting with these people in a meaningful manner. Now, if they can have a bunch of crazy blood-teleporting knife doctors take down a Big Daddy once in a while, and show them being able to "harvest" as well, that might make people feel much more a part of a internally consistent ecology.
Except we don't really know how the ecology works. At the moment it looks like all the mutants are on one side. One of your guides is on the still human survivors side just trying to escape, and the other is trying to restore what she's done to the world. It's one of those cases where if you really want to go through this all, you're just going to end up spoilering the story for yourself. But certainly in all the videos we've seen the mutants appear friendly with the harvesting team.
Well, obviously not, but the pre-game hype was mostly about intelligent AI, living and breathing world, enemies with agendas etc etc. Obviously it's not a dang holo-deck, so it has to be within reason. But am I wrong about the whole idea being that there are 2-3 competing ideologies and these would all have ample reason to hijack ADAM? I was under the impression that the big daddies were not there to protect the girls from you, in particular, but from competitors.
I mean, aren't they mutants too? So what are they fighting against if all the mutants are on the same side? Are they there to protect against a currently non-existant threat, or what?
I love how there is all this talk about moral issues when it's been made pretty clear this was a game design decision due to the game not working the other way around.
You guys just keep yelling at each other. Enjoy it. I'm getting a root beer.
If you'd elaborate on that, you'd probably have a very good point.
But you didn't, so enjoy the sugar suds and know that this post made about as much difference as people yacking about the moral implications.
what's he supposed to elaborate on? his point was already discussed ad-nauseum in the pages prior, and that didn't stop anyone.
Because I believe in him dammit.
Thats nice of you.
But what can I say? They didn't get censored or tailor the content to avoid censorship - they say - but nobody will believe them because it is way more fun (and easier to be a blowhard) if you don't. We've got pages and pages and pages and PAGES of arguments that pertain to a scenario that may very well be ENTIRELY fabricated.
We won't know until we play the game. And we *can* speculate in the mean time, but we've got people saying this has ruined the game (they've not played) and thinking they know better than the designers and the testers of the game (they've not played).
So I think vast portions of this thread have jumped the shark. But who wants to hear that, I mean, really?
Umm... If the Little Sisters are immune to being shot and killed, why do they need the big daddies to protect them?
If they are un-murderable anyway, what is the use of the big daddy, it kinda takes you out of the sort of experience a bit. (Not that im saying i want to murder little girls, just saying it kinda breaks the plot a bit)
once you kill the big daddy, you can kill the girl. it would follow, then, that their invulnerability will be tied to the big daddy.
problem solved!
That's not going to happen. They don't want you killing the Little Sisters in any way other than some off-screen scripted sequence. Or, some nonviolent manner. Like they evaporate into your Adam collecting collector :P
It's been pretty spelled out that there's no way, for instance, that a grenade or pistol will EVER be a cause of death for one of these NPCs.
whether you see it or not, you're still killing them. i.e. once the big daddy is gone, they are vulnerable. so yes, it is going to happen.
Through a binary choice of harvest/save. Their method of invulnerability has to remain the same after the Big Daddy is gone because they still want to force you to use their canned method.
Your gun will probably lower automatically and they'll be immune to callateral damage.
I wish I'd never used the word binary in the opening post. So, how does shooting them add to your choice? After all, this game isn't about the different ways you can kill little children.
No, but their vulnerability was an important gameplay mechanic that's been completely nullified so that I no longer need to be careful around them at all. It's rather stupid. Here we are at the beginning of the conversation again.
I just hope that in the next Rainbow Six game the hostages are still vulnerable so that I can't get away with throwing frag grenades into rooms with them.
I wish I'd never used the word binary in the opening post. So, how does shooting them add to your choice? After all, this game isn't about the different ways you can kill little children.
No, but their vulnerability was an important gameplay mechanic that's been completely nullified so that I no longer need to be careful around them at all. It's rather stupid. Here we are at the beginning of the conversation again.
I just hope that in the next Rainbow Six game the hostages are still vulnerable so that I can't get away with throwing frag grenades into rooms with them.
Really, it was an important gameplay mechanic? Good to know you're working hard on Bioshock and not goofing around on message baords. Because I'd hate to take your boss' word for things over yours.
No, but their vulnerability was an important gameplay mechanic that's been completely nullified so that I no longer need to be careful around them at all.
Accidentally pissing off the protectors isn't a reason to be careful around them?
No, but their vulnerability was an important gameplay mechanic that's been completely nullified so that I no longer need to be careful around them at all.
Accidentally pissing off the protectors isn't a reason to be careful around them?
I'm fairly certain that pissing off their protectors is almost required by the storyline we know of.
First thing I'm going to do when I get chance? Throw a grenade at a LS.
Second thing? Laugh.
No, but their vulnerability was an important gameplay mechanic that's been completely nullified so that I no longer need to be careful around them at all.
Accidentally pissing off the protectors isn't a reason to be careful around them?
I'm fairly certain that pissing off their protectors is almost required by the storyline we know of.
First thing I'm going to do when I get chance? Throw a grenade at a LS.
Second thing? Laugh.
Third thing? Die because you aren't strong enough to beat him.
No, but their vulnerability was an important gameplay mechanic that's been completely nullified so that I no longer need to be careful around them at all.
Accidentally pissing off the protectors isn't a reason to be careful around them?
I'm fairly certain that pissing off their protectors is almost required by the storyline we know of.
First thing I'm going to do when I get chance? Throw a grenade at a LS.
Second thing? Laugh.
Third thing? Die because you aren't strong enough to beat him.
Deus ex machina for games, to borrow an overused phrase. It's irritating, but it just tells me "oh, so and so is important so I'm not allowed to kill this person. It's stupid but I'll live.".
Me, I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of realism so I don't get 80 hours into a game only to find out that some fucker I offed 50 hours ago was integral to the plot and that now I get to restart the game.
ElJeffe on
Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."
I'm going to stop saying things like "I'm assuming" and "I suppose", because by now it should be damn obvious that nobody's quite sure what they're talking about.
But to add to the rampant speculation: the other Slicers (or whatever the relevant types/factions are called) will (still?) try and take down Little Sisters: just that now they're forced to go through the Big Daddy. Otherwise the ecosystem isn't quite what I'd guessed it'd be.
Actually, the more I think about it, I think people are just annoyed that only their character can kill these things. As in, it's a little bit less of an "ecology", because it's obviously you and only you that has any chance of interacting with these people in a meaningful manner. Now, if they can have a bunch of crazy blood-teleporting knife doctors take down a Big Daddy once in a while, and show them being able to "harvest" as well, that might make people feel much more a part of a internally consistent ecology.
Except we don't really know how the ecology works. At the moment it looks like all the mutants are on one side. One of your guides is on the still human survivors side just trying to escape, and the other is trying to restore what she's done to the world. It's one of those cases where if you really want to go through this all, you're just going to end up spoilering the story for yourself. But certainly in all the videos we've seen the mutants appear friendly with the harvesting team.
Well, obviously not, but the pre-game hype was mostly about intelligent AI, living and breathing world, enemies with agendas etc etc. Obviously it's not a dang holo-deck, so it has to be within reason. But am I wrong about the whole idea being that there are 2-3 competing ideologies and these would all have ample reason to hijack ADAM? I was under the impression that the big daddies were not there to protect the girls from you, in particular, but from competitors.
I mean, aren't they mutants too? So what are they fighting against if all the mutants are on the same side? Are they there to protect against a currently non-existant threat, or what?
Protectors: (Big Daddies, or Mr. Bubbles as some of the Gatherers call them) Mute, lumbering bio-mechanical monstrosities, created to protect the Gatherers. They are heavily armored and wield high-powered weaponry, including a large drill.Their armor somewhat resembles a large diving suit. Most of the inhabitants stay out of the way of the Gatherers and Protectors. According to lead designer Paul Hellquist "Once you mess with them, you find out why no-one messes with them."
From wiki.
I'm not particularly keen on snooping around too much because I'd rather experience the story by playing the game. But I'm pretty sure irrational are smart enough to know what they're doing.
edit: Actually this line makes a hell of a lot of sense. The genetic arms race is fueled by adam. Those with the most become the best, so who's better placed to become the strongest than the one's with a symbiote that collects the adam in the first place.
Deus ex machina for games, to borrow an overused phrase. It's irritating, but it just tells me "oh, so and so is important so I'm not allowed to kill this person. It's stupid but I'll live.".
Me, I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of realism so I don't get 80 hours into a game only to find out that some fucker I offed 50 hours ago was integral to the plot and that now I get to restart the game.
Which is why I'm totally good with it, even though it's stupid.
From what I know though, the Little Sisters aren't integral to the plot... at least, their lives aren't. You're given a choice to kill them anyway.
I just really hope this isn't done stupidly. The worst things about games are things that feel extremely forced and artificial. Invisible walls...
Frankly, the best way they can do this is by making the LS AI really really good at running away from danger so it never seems totally unnatural that she just survived an explosion, then have it so my gun lowers when it's aimed at her. That's all fine.
The last thing I want is to fire a chaingun into a room and having everyone die except her, because the bullets hit her but sparks fly off because she's made of metal or something in the game engine.
Stigma on
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
oh god yeah. im hoping they run and hide every fight, so after the carnage you find em hiding in a corner or in a cupboard or something. then its like 'finally, now to get what i came for'
From wiki.
I'm not particularly keen on snooping around too much because I'd rather experience the story by playing the game. But I'm pretty sure irrational are smart enough to know what they're doing.
edit: Actually this line makes a hell of a lot of sense. The genetic arms race is fueled by adam. Those with the most become the best, so who's better placed to become the strongest than the one's with a symbiote that collects the adam in the first place.
Oh. Well. Yes, I got the impression a while ago that they were super-badass.
What I mean is that now, even if it is for gameplay reasons, (I.E the AI controlled characters wiping a level of Gatherers before you got there), harvesting/saving is something that only the player can do. And because the big hype for this game has been emergent gameplay and a living environment, people were hoping that player-specific actions could be kept at a very bare minimum. So it does make sense that a reasonably underpowered enemy wouldn't mess with the biggest and the baddest, it also makes sense that a group of desperate, crazy people would do desperate crazy things. Now we're not going to (I can only assume, of course) see that, because the mechanic to be that crazy is only in the player's arsenal.
Im betting that once the game launches and you come across your first LS and BD combo, you fight for like 10 mins to take out the daddy, waste all ur ammo.
then you come to the LS in a corner and she stands up and just as ur about to hit her with a wrench or whatever her eyes start to glow, she floats up off the ground about 5 ft and starts screaming a horrific banshee wail, and you're all like 'oh my fucking god....' and the devs are all like 'oh yeah, heheh, hope you didnt get the impression these things were weak from our advertising, cause now you are totally fucking fucked'
Carnivore on
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
You're suggesting that rather than protecting the sisters the protectors have an ulterior motive, they are using the sisters for their own means.
that would be fuckawesome.
Well, they have a symbiotic relationship, right?
I'm guessing the LS are so chock-full of Adam that they can't be damaged physically. But the have no offense capability.
That's where you get the Big Daddies.
Y'know those teleporting enemies?
Make the LS like that. Except harder to hit. Like, the most annoying fucking thing in the world.
I'd find that pretty funny and probably waste some ammo just to hear them giggle at me for thinking I had a chance.
edit: and of course... hide in the bullet proof cupboard.
Well, that doesn't make any sense because the why would they need the BDs at all?
If I had to make up an explanation it's that they're these tiny little super-dense Adam filled critters that can't really be harmed with conventional weapons. But for some reason the way their bodies are built makes it so they have no real offensive capability. Like there's no room for it, like say in Desu Ex where all your slots are full. So people could just pick them up and off they go. That's why they keep the BDs around.
Posts
That's not going to happen. They don't want you killing the Little Sisters in any way other than some off-screen scripted sequence. Or, some nonviolent manner. Like they evaporate into your Adam collecting collector :P
It's been pretty spelled out that there's no way, for instance, that a grenade or pistol will EVER be a cause of death for one of these NPCs.
Because I believe in him dammit.
Probably a decision based on the fact that they are more susceptible to public backlash, and would rather continue developing games, rather than deal with social ramifications and a ton of bad press. The mod community can operate with more impunity, so they're taking the responsibility of the decision off their shoulders by not really making it. Better for gamers.
Through a binary choice of harvest/save. Their method of invulnerability has to remain the same after the Big Daddy is gone because they still want to force you to use their canned method.
Your gun will probably lower automatically and they'll be immune to callateral damage.
I mean, would it really stop reactionary idiots if it took a mod to allow you to shoot the little kids?
Edit: You know what would be wonderful? If the "canned method" was a brutal, minutes long beating with a wrench. They're not censoring, they're afraid we're all wusses about child murder.
Watch the first trailer walk through, Watch at 12:00 when the little sister dies. Watcha got? Nothing. Honestly, if you were playing the game like that and you wanted to save the little sisters what would you do. Quick Load. It'd just be annoying.
Watch the hunting the Big Daddy video, or more specifically the ending. Which of those do you want the game to be about?
And just to top it off, watch the latest trailer, because omg does the game look 100x better now.
I wish I'd never used the word binary in the opening post. So, how does shooting them add to your choice? After all, this game isn't about the different ways you can kill little children.
plus their charge is like OH FUCK FUCK FUCK SHIT RUN kind of exhilirating.
Yes, at the very least. I could also easily see them (ESRB) refusing to rate it.
Actually, the more I think about it, I think people are just annoyed that only their character can kill these things. As in, it's a little bit less of an "ecology", because it's obviously you and only you that has any chance of interacting with these people in a meaningful manner. Now, if they can have a bunch of crazy blood-teleporting knife doctors take down a Big Daddy once in a while, and show them being able to "harvest" as well, that might make people feel much more a part of a internally consistent ecology.
there are way more. in the new trailer you see about 6 new ones for brief seconds.
I had this worry originally with the old trailers, but at least some of them (the nurses at least) have proven to have alternate skins: and I'm guessing there're even more "types" under the covers.
I'm pretty sure that you'll interact with NPCs in a way that goes beyond voice-only radio messages: or at least that's the impression I'd got from an old interview.
Except we don't really know how the ecology works. At the moment it looks like all the mutants are on one side. One of your guides is on the still human survivors side just trying to escape, and the other is trying to restore what she's done to the world. It's one of those cases where if you really want to go through this all, you're just going to end up spoilering the story for yourself. But certainly in all the videos we've seen the mutants appear friendly with the harvesting team.
That and the amount of functional people while on fire. Though I'll chalk that up to genetic engineering.
Well, obviously not, but the pre-game hype was mostly about intelligent AI, living and breathing world, enemies with agendas etc etc. Obviously it's not a dang holo-deck, so it has to be within reason. But am I wrong about the whole idea being that there are 2-3 competing ideologies and these would all have ample reason to hijack ADAM? I was under the impression that the big daddies were not there to protect the girls from you, in particular, but from competitors.
I mean, aren't they mutants too? So what are they fighting against if all the mutants are on the same side? Are they there to protect against a currently non-existant threat, or what?
Thats nice of you.
But what can I say? They didn't get censored or tailor the content to avoid censorship - they say - but nobody will believe them because it is way more fun (and easier to be a blowhard) if you don't. We've got pages and pages and pages and PAGES of arguments that pertain to a scenario that may very well be ENTIRELY fabricated.
We won't know until we play the game. And we *can* speculate in the mean time, but we've got people saying this has ruined the game (they've not played) and thinking they know better than the designers and the testers of the game (they've not played).
So I think vast portions of this thread have jumped the shark. But who wants to hear that, I mean, really?
猿も木から落ちる
No, but their vulnerability was an important gameplay mechanic that's been completely nullified so that I no longer need to be careful around them at all. It's rather stupid. Here we are at the beginning of the conversation again.
I just hope that in the next Rainbow Six game the hostages are still vulnerable so that I can't get away with throwing frag grenades into rooms with them.
Really, it was an important gameplay mechanic? Good to know you're working hard on Bioshock and not goofing around on message baords. Because I'd hate to take your boss' word for things over yours.
I'm fairly certain that pissing off their protectors is almost required by the storyline we know of.
First thing I'm going to do when I get chance? Throw a grenade at a LS.
Second thing? Laugh.
Third thing? Die because you aren't strong enough to beat him.
Fourth thing?
Load!
Me, I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of realism so I don't get 80 hours into a game only to find out that some fucker I offed 50 hours ago was integral to the plot and that now I get to restart the game.
But to add to the rampant speculation: the other Slicers (or whatever the relevant types/factions are called) will (still?) try and take down Little Sisters: just that now they're forced to go through the Big Daddy. Otherwise the ecosystem isn't quite what I'd guessed it'd be.
From wiki.
I'm not particularly keen on snooping around too much because I'd rather experience the story by playing the game. But I'm pretty sure irrational are smart enough to know what they're doing.
edit: Actually this line makes a hell of a lot of sense. The genetic arms race is fueled by adam. Those with the most become the best, so who's better placed to become the strongest than the one's with a symbiote that collects the adam in the first place.
that would be fuckawesome.
Which is why I'm totally good with it, even though it's stupid.
From what I know though, the Little Sisters aren't integral to the plot... at least, their lives aren't. You're given a choice to kill them anyway.
I just really hope this isn't done stupidly. The worst things about games are things that feel extremely forced and artificial. Invisible walls...
Frankly, the best way they can do this is by making the LS AI really really good at running away from danger so it never seems totally unnatural that she just survived an explosion, then have it so my gun lowers when it's aimed at her. That's all fine.
The last thing I want is to fire a chaingun into a room and having everyone die except her, because the bullets hit her but sparks fly off because she's made of metal or something in the game engine.
Well, they have a symbiotic relationship, right?
I'm guessing the LS are so chock-full of Adam that they can't be damaged physically. But the have no offense capability.
That's where you get the Big Daddies.
What I mean is that now, even if it is for gameplay reasons, (I.E the AI controlled characters wiping a level of Gatherers before you got there), harvesting/saving is something that only the player can do. And because the big hype for this game has been emergent gameplay and a living environment, people were hoping that player-specific actions could be kept at a very bare minimum. So it does make sense that a reasonably underpowered enemy wouldn't mess with the biggest and the baddest, it also makes sense that a group of desperate, crazy people would do desperate crazy things. Now we're not going to (I can only assume, of course) see that, because the mechanic to be that crazy is only in the player's arsenal.
Y'know those teleporting enemies?
Make the LS like that. Except harder to hit. Like, the most annoying fucking thing in the world.
I'd find that pretty funny and probably waste some ammo just to hear them giggle at me for thinking I had a chance.
edit: and of course... hide in the bullet proof cupboard.
then you come to the LS in a corner and she stands up and just as ur about to hit her with a wrench or whatever her eyes start to glow, she floats up off the ground about 5 ft and starts screaming a horrific banshee wail, and you're all like 'oh my fucking god....' and the devs are all like 'oh yeah, heheh, hope you didnt get the impression these things were weak from our advertising, cause now you are totally fucking fucked'
Well, that doesn't make any sense because the why would they need the BDs at all?
If I had to make up an explanation it's that they're these tiny little super-dense Adam filled critters that can't really be harmed with conventional weapons. But for some reason the way their bodies are built makes it so they have no real offensive capability. Like there's no room for it, like say in Desu Ex where all your slots are full. So people could just pick them up and off they go. That's why they keep the BDs around.