We have a new update on The Future of the Penny Arcade Forums.

[Police Brutality] Has Caused Ongoing National Protests

134689101

Posts

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »

    Dismantle DHS for utterly failing to live up to its own stated mission. Oppressing peaceful protesters with violence and putting refugees and children in cages does nothing to safeguard the American people, our homeland, and makes a mockery the values we supposedly honor.
    What they would tell you in response to this is that "antifa" is a "violent terrorist organization." It's why that classification is so alarming; anyone who has a dissenting voice toward the current administration can be classified as a part of that imaginary group and thus face thug retribution.

    You're using that word wrong. "Thug" can only be a euphemism/label for ... those people. You know.

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    DHS is also the shittiest place to work in the government. It has the lowest satisfaction over and over again.

    kvzst64xc03p.png

    Federal Employee Viewpoint Survey 2019

    Getting rid of it would be a big bonus to morale. Though you can see the fascist have gotten happier recently. The other departments for a comparison as well.

    kufsuw9vrr4e.png

    This is public info available from OPM's website.

    Mazzyx on
    u7stthr17eud.png
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    Tomanta wrote: »
    Also Alan Sepinwall wrote about the history of police centered shows and how they contributed to the culture around policing.

    One thing I've started doing since the protests started is really pay attention to how TV / film portrays police. I finished rewatching Justified early this year, and am currently rewatching Person of Interest (which isn't a cop show per se but does heavily interact with that genre). But it also has me thinking of cop shows I have watched and enjoyed to some degree in the past. And my conclusion is... I don't think I would be able to rewatch many of them now.

    Part of the problem isn't simply the glorification of cops, but the demonization of everyone else.

    Like any procedural except for SVU treats murder as an extremely common occurrence, where the murderer is a some sort of mastermind. And in the real world, murder is extremely rare, and not very complicated when it happens.

    This creates a sense of paranoia that everyone is out to get you.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    DHS is also the shittiest place to work in the government. It has the lowest satisfaction over and over again.

    kvzst64xc03p.png

    Federal Employee Viewpoint Survey 2019

    Getting rid of it would be a big bonus to morale. Though you can see the fascist have gotten happier recently. The other departments for a comparison as well.

    kufsuw9vrr4e.png

    This is public info available from OPM's website.

    Notice the jump when the concentration camps started.

  • quovadis13quovadis13 Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    DHS is also the shittiest place to work in the government. It has the lowest satisfaction over and over again.

    kvzst64xc03p.png

    Federal Employee Viewpoint Survey 2019

    Getting rid of it would be a big bonus to morale. Though you can see the fascist have gotten happier recently. The other departments for a comparison as well.

    kufsuw9vrr4e.png

    This is public info available from OPM's website.

    Notice the jump when the concentration camps started.

    Yikes to those Department of Education and Labor Relations Board numbers.....

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Tomanta wrote: »
    Also Alan Sepinwall wrote about the history of police centered shows and how they contributed to the culture around policing.

    One thing I've started doing since the protests started is really pay attention to how TV / film portrays police. I finished rewatching Justified early this year, and am currently rewatching Person of Interest (which isn't a cop show per se but does heavily interact with that genre). But it also has me thinking of cop shows I have watched and enjoyed to some degree in the past. And my conclusion is... I don't think I would be able to rewatch many of them now.

    Part of the problem isn't simply the glorification of cops, but the demonization of everyone else.

    Like any procedural except for SVU treats murder as an extremely common occurrence, where the murderer is a some sort of mastermind. And in the real world, murder is extremely rare, and not very complicated when it happens.

    This creates a sense of paranoia that everyone is out to get you.

    I'd say that's the bigger problem personally. The media in general creates this idea of a society where crime is way more rampant then it actually is. Especially for the people who watch these shows.

  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Tomanta wrote: »
    Also Alan Sepinwall wrote about the history of police centered shows and how they contributed to the culture around policing.

    One thing I've started doing since the protests started is really pay attention to how TV / film portrays police. I finished rewatching Justified early this year, and am currently rewatching Person of Interest (which isn't a cop show per se but does heavily interact with that genre). But it also has me thinking of cop shows I have watched and enjoyed to some degree in the past. And my conclusion is... I don't think I would be able to rewatch many of them now.

    Part of the problem isn't simply the glorification of cops, but the demonization of everyone else.

    Like any procedural except for SVU treats murder as an extremely common occurrence, where the murderer is a some sort of mastermind. And in the real world, murder is extremely rare, and not very complicated when it happens.

    This creates a sense of paranoia that everyone is out to get you.

    I'd say that's the bigger problem personally. The media in general creates this idea of a society where crime is way more rampant then it actually is. Especially for the people who watch these shows.

    I remember the last time I got summoned for Jury Duty, during pre trial interviews one of the other potential jury members said that they watched a lot of tv shows so they know about investigations and evidence and stuff (not an exact quote, but not far off). I may have rolled my eyes hard enough to be audible.
    Neither one of us were selected for the jury.

  • LabelLabel Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Man seen in area of homemade explosive at Portland protest ID’ed as ex-Navy SEAL
    https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/10/man-seen-in-area-of-homemade-explosive-at-portland-protest-ided-as-ex-navy-seal/
    Shortly after someone threw makeshift explosive devices at protesters in Southeast Portland early Saturday morning, a man wearing dark clothes and carrying a military style helmet with night-vision goggles was videotaped near the area.

    Multiple people say the man in the video appears to be a retired U.S. Navy SEAL and former Central Intelligence Agency contractor who has worked in Afghanistan — and spoken out on social media against the nightly Portland demonstrations.

    No one was injured in the small explosions, but the attack suggests a new, dangerous dynamic. For the past 73 days of protests against systemic racism and police violence, there has been a continuous fear that right-wing demonstrators would become involved, leading to violence. Now, it appears that may have happened.
    Also, there are allegations of domestic violence in this guy's history.
    A 2014 trial memorandum submitted by his soon to be ex-wife said they separated in March 2013 because of domestic violence.

    “Given the sensitive nature of his work as a government independent contractor, Wife never reported any incidents to law enforcement,” the memorandum says. “Until now, she has agreed to keep the details of his abusive behavior out of the court file in order to preserve his employment.”


    I expect this to get worse before it gets better.

    Label on
  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Label wrote: »
    Man seen in area of homemade explosive at Portland protest ID’ed as ex-Navy SEAL
    https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/10/man-seen-in-area-of-homemade-explosive-at-portland-protest-ided-as-ex-navy-seal/
    Shortly after someone threw makeshift explosive devices at protesters in Southeast Portland early Saturday morning, a man wearing dark clothes and carrying a military style helmet with night-vision goggles was videotaped near the area.

    Multiple people say the man in the video appears to be a retired U.S. Navy SEAL and former Central Intelligence Agency contractor who has worked in Afghanistan — and spoken out on social media against the nightly Portland demonstrations.

    No one was injured in the small explosions, but the attack suggests a new, dangerous dynamic. For the past 73 days of protests against systemic racism and police violence, there has been a continuous fear that right-wing demonstrators would become involved, leading to violence. Now, it appears that may have happened.
    Also, there are allegations of domestic violence in this guy's history.
    A 2014 trial memorandum submitted by his soon to be ex-wife said they separated in March 2013 because of domestic violence.

    “Given the sensitive nature of his work as a government independent contractor, Wife never reported any incidents to law enforcement,” the memorandum says. “Until now, she has agreed to keep the details of his abusive behavior out of the court file in order to preserve his employment.”


    I expect this to get worse before it gets better.

    I see you're an optimist.

    [Expletive deleted] on
    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Tomanta wrote: »
    Also Alan Sepinwall wrote about the history of police centered shows and how they contributed to the culture around policing.

    One thing I've started doing since the protests started is really pay attention to how TV / film portrays police. I finished rewatching Justified early this year, and am currently rewatching Person of Interest (which isn't a cop show per se but does heavily interact with that genre). But it also has me thinking of cop shows I have watched and enjoyed to some degree in the past. And my conclusion is... I don't think I would be able to rewatch many of them now.

    Part of the problem isn't simply the glorification of cops, but the demonization of everyone else.

    Like any procedural except for SVU treats murder as an extremely common occurrence, where the murderer is a some sort of mastermind. And in the real world, murder is extremely rare, and not very complicated when it happens.

    This creates a sense of paranoia that everyone is out to get you.

    I'd say that's the bigger problem personally. The media in general creates this idea of a society where crime is way more rampant then it actually is. Especially for the people who watch these shows.

    I mean, Reno 911 is the show that portrayed cops as bungling idiots who had no idea what they were doing.

    But even then, they were usually idiots because they let the criminals get away with crimes.

  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Label wrote: »
    Man seen in area of homemade explosive at Portland protest ID’ed as ex-Navy SEAL
    https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/10/man-seen-in-area-of-homemade-explosive-at-portland-protest-ided-as-ex-navy-seal/
    Shortly after someone threw makeshift explosive devices at protesters in Southeast Portland early Saturday morning, a man wearing dark clothes and carrying a military style helmet with night-vision goggles was videotaped near the area.

    Multiple people say the man in the video appears to be a retired U.S. Navy SEAL and former Central Intelligence Agency contractor who has worked in Afghanistan — and spoken out on social media against the nightly Portland demonstrations.

    No one was injured in the small explosions, but the attack suggests a new, dangerous dynamic. For the past 73 days of protests against systemic racism and police violence, there has been a continuous fear that right-wing demonstrators would become involved, leading to violence. Now, it appears that may have happened.
    Also, there are allegations of domestic violence in this guy's history.
    A 2014 trial memorandum submitted by his soon to be ex-wife said they separated in March 2013 because of domestic violence.

    “Given the sensitive nature of his work as a government independent contractor, Wife never reported any incidents to law enforcement,” the memorandum says. “Until now, she has agreed to keep the details of his abusive behavior out of the court file in order to preserve his employment.”


    I expect this to get worse before it gets better.

    Man, the SEALs must be a breeding ground for awful assholes.

    Stabbity_Style.png
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    Man, the SEALs must be a breeding ground for awful assholes.

    That particular type of special forces is always incredibly self-selecting for a particular brand of... let's call it personality.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    Man, the SEALs must be a breeding ground for awful assholes.

    That particular type of special forces is always incredibly self-selecting for a particular brand of... let's call it personality.

    The SEALs in particular have been having major issues recently. TONS of scandals and terrible behaviour and such. I can't remember off the top of my head all the details but it's been going downhill recently.

  • StarZapperStarZapper Vermont, Bizzaro world.Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    Man, the SEALs must be a breeding ground for awful assholes.

    That particular type of special forces is always incredibly self-selecting for a particular brand of... let's call it personality.

    The SEALs in particular have been having major issues recently. TONS of scandals and terrible behaviour and such. I can't remember off the top of my head all the details but it's been going downhill recently.

    Yeah, it turns out when you try and pick out the most violent, effective killing machines in the world they also sometimes happen to be the most violent, brutal personalities in the world. Who could've known. The police have the same sort of self selection process, though not as extreme.

  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    I wonder how much the whole "SEAL Team 6" thing got to their heads about how awesome they are.

  • GiantGeek2020GiantGeek2020 Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    I wonder how much the whole "SEAL Team 6" thing got to their heads about how awesome they are.

    I wonder if they got some of that bullshit warrior training or any of that warrior philosophy.

  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    shryke wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    Man, the SEALs must be a breeding ground for awful assholes.

    That particular type of special forces is always incredibly self-selecting for a particular brand of... let's call it personality.

    The SEALs in particular have been having major issues recently. TONS of scandals and terrible behaviour and such. I can't remember off the top of my head all the details but it's been going downhill recently.

    I feel like that one "murdered a prisoner and took pictures with their severed head" incident sufficiently sums it up.


    In other news, LAPD responds to call that a homeless man was chasing three kids with a knife, holds the dangerous, skateboard-welding kids at gunpoint as witnesses shout that the perp is getting away.



    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/skbaer/black-teens-detained-gunpoint-santa-clarita?bftwnews=&utm_term=4ldqpgc&__twitter_impression=true

    Like, "called in backup with an assault rifle" gunpoint.

    Edit: Cops said they were responding to a call about the three black kids hitting someone with a skateboard, not the call about the knife weilding crazy person attacking them; and you know what?

    I believe them. :|

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Similar to the one caught on live TV where they detained the black business owners who were being looted while watching the looter walk away as everyone involved including the reporter pointed out their mistake.

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    Similar to the one caught on live TV where they detained the black business owners who were being looted while watching the looter walk away as everyone involved including the reporter pointed out their mistake.

    No, this is worse. That was a hectic scene amid protests that the first cops seemed to have half stumbled upon. Those cops at least, ultimately, also went after the perps (derisive emphasis on also...)

    This is three kids standing quietly at a bus stop, already 'contained', as cops continue to show up with more firepower, refuse to pursue the guy who threatened them, and take the three of them in for felony assault.

  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Label wrote: »
    Man seen in area of homemade explosive at Portland protest ID’ed as ex-Navy SEAL
    https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/10/man-seen-in-area-of-homemade-explosive-at-portland-protest-ided-as-ex-navy-seal/
    Shortly after someone threw makeshift explosive devices at protesters in Southeast Portland early Saturday morning, a man wearing dark clothes and carrying a military style helmet with night-vision goggles was videotaped near the area.

    Multiple people say the man in the video appears to be a retired U.S. Navy SEAL and former Central Intelligence Agency contractor who has worked in Afghanistan — and spoken out on social media against the nightly Portland demonstrations.

    No one was injured in the small explosions, but the attack suggests a new, dangerous dynamic. For the past 73 days of protests against systemic racism and police violence, there has been a continuous fear that right-wing demonstrators would become involved, leading to violence. Now, it appears that may have happened.
    Also, there are allegations of domestic violence in this guy's history.
    A 2014 trial memorandum submitted by his soon to be ex-wife said they separated in March 2013 because of domestic violence.

    “Given the sensitive nature of his work as a government independent contractor, Wife never reported any incidents to law enforcement,” the memorandum says. “Until now, she has agreed to keep the details of his abusive behavior out of the court file in order to preserve his employment.”


    I expect this to get worse before it gets better.

    Man, the SEALs must be a breeding ground for awful assholes.

    They're utterly fucking miserable to work with. The most self entitled assholes in the service. I've yet to meet one who wasn't infuriating.

    In comparison, the few green beret I've interacted with have been decent, chill people. But then they're expected to be able to interact and help others instead of just swoop in, kill someone, then leave.

  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Label wrote: »
    Man seen in area of homemade explosive at Portland protest ID’ed as ex-Navy SEAL
    https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/10/man-seen-in-area-of-homemade-explosive-at-portland-protest-ided-as-ex-navy-seal/
    Shortly after someone threw makeshift explosive devices at protesters in Southeast Portland early Saturday morning, a man wearing dark clothes and carrying a military style helmet with night-vision goggles was videotaped near the area.

    Multiple people say the man in the video appears to be a retired U.S. Navy SEAL and former Central Intelligence Agency contractor who has worked in Afghanistan — and spoken out on social media against the nightly Portland demonstrations.

    No one was injured in the small explosions, but the attack suggests a new, dangerous dynamic. For the past 73 days of protests against systemic racism and police violence, there has been a continuous fear that right-wing demonstrators would become involved, leading to violence. Now, it appears that may have happened.
    Also, there are allegations of domestic violence in this guy's history.
    A 2014 trial memorandum submitted by his soon to be ex-wife said they separated in March 2013 because of domestic violence.

    “Given the sensitive nature of his work as a government independent contractor, Wife never reported any incidents to law enforcement,” the memorandum says. “Until now, she has agreed to keep the details of his abusive behavior out of the court file in order to preserve his employment.”


    I expect this to get worse before it gets better.

    Man, the SEALs must be a breeding ground for awful assholes.

    They're utterly fucking miserable to work with. The most self entitled assholes in the service. I've yet to meet one who wasn't infuriating.

    In comparison, the few green beret I've interacted with have been decent, chill people. But then they're expected to be able to interact and help others instead of just swoop in, kill someone, then leave.

    The show Naked and Afraid bears this anectdote out (anectdotally). There have been numerous (male*) combat vets that come in full of arrogance and chauvanism, then bail on their partner because they can't hack it. The shining exception to that rule was the green beret (now a literal snake eater) who was super chill, respectful, and absolutely thrives.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    I wonder how much the whole "SEAL Team 6" thing got to their heads about how awesome they are.

    AFAIK this was a big part of it. Or so I remember people writing about it claiming. They got famous and it attracted shittier people to join up and created a .... we'll go with "less professional" atmosphere. All the stories created this idea, within the SEALs themselves, that they are lethal badasses or something and that changes how people behave.

    Also, I believe a ton more deployments then usual leading to stress and burnout on top of all that.

  • Man in the MistsMan in the Mists Registered User regular
    Similar to the one caught on live TV where they detained the black business owners who were being looted while watching the looter walk away as everyone involved including the reporter pointed out their mistake.

    Do you have a link for this?

  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    ...and when you are done with that; take a folding
    chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    shryke wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I wonder how much the whole "SEAL Team 6" thing got to their heads about how awesome they are.

    AFAIK this was a big part of it. Or so I remember people writing about it claiming. They got famous and it attracted shittier people to join up and created a .... we'll go with "less professional" atmosphere. All the stories created this idea, within the SEALs themselves, that they are lethal badasses or something and that changes how people behave.

    Also, I believe a ton more deployments then usual leading to stress and burnout on top of all that.

    This sort of "we are elite" cult-like behavior is absolutely ancient and its usefulness in controlling physically brutal but mentally inept individuals has been exploited countless times throughout human history. Special combat units with unique privileges, kill teams, royal guards, officers, etc; virtually every large military force constructs something like this at some point or another.

    I mean, this is one of the core concepts that Dune brings draws up to critique over fifty years ago: building an elite loyal-to-the-death combat group is relatively easy, all you need to do is give them better training, better gear, extra privileges, and feed them constant reminders that they are the "chosen" elite, above and beyond the "common" soldier and especially civilians. Throw in some enigmatic emblems, stupid secret handshakes, and a pile of repressed homoerotic hazing "rituals" and whammo, you've got yourself deathtroopers who have completely lost themselves in their own made-up mythology. It's basically as if a group took the 40k Space Marine mythos super-seriously, except they use real guns with their bizarro military cult. And the ones who get exposed to actual combat get to get really fucked up with PTSD and all of that, making them even more reliant on the other members of their group as the only relatable people they know.

    Something like SEAL Team 6 has been told they're the best and that their value lies in their unmatched skills (which is a blatant lie), when the real value is a having a group of incredibly loyal murderers who are so convinced of their own mythology that they will gladly risk death to murder people for whoever is giving the orders.

    Not surprisingly, this cult-like bullshit has infected police forces, resulting in cops who largely view civilians as inept sheep with themselves as the wolves.

    Ninja Snarl P on
  • Darth WaiterDarth Waiter Elrond Hubbard Mordor XenuRegistered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Label wrote: »
    Man seen in area of homemade explosive at Portland protest ID’ed as ex-Navy SEAL
    https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/10/man-seen-in-area-of-homemade-explosive-at-portland-protest-ided-as-ex-navy-seal/
    Shortly after someone threw makeshift explosive devices at protesters in Southeast Portland early Saturday morning, a man wearing dark clothes and carrying a military style helmet with night-vision goggles was videotaped near the area.

    Multiple people say the man in the video appears to be a retired U.S. Navy SEAL and former Central Intelligence Agency contractor who has worked in Afghanistan — and spoken out on social media against the nightly Portland demonstrations.

    No one was injured in the small explosions, but the attack suggests a new, dangerous dynamic. For the past 73 days of protests against systemic racism and police violence, there has been a continuous fear that right-wing demonstrators would become involved, leading to violence. Now, it appears that may have happened.
    Also, there are allegations of domestic violence in this guy's history.
    A 2014 trial memorandum submitted by his soon to be ex-wife said they separated in March 2013 because of domestic violence.

    “Given the sensitive nature of his work as a government independent contractor, Wife never reported any incidents to law enforcement,” the memorandum says. “Until now, she has agreed to keep the details of his abusive behavior out of the court file in order to preserve his employment.”


    I expect this to get worse before it gets better.

    Man, the SEALs must be a breeding ground for awful assholes.

    They're utterly fucking miserable to work with. The most self entitled assholes in the service. I've yet to meet one who wasn't infuriating.

    In comparison, the few green beret I've interacted with have been decent, chill people. But then they're expected to be able to interact and help others instead of just swoop in, kill someone, then leave.

    Way back in the day when I was stationed at Pendleton with the 1st Marine Division, we'd regularly conduct training ops with our Recon guys and (very rarely) some Force Recon guys. Super chill dudes who still recognized that we were all still just a bunch of leathernecks, we just had different jobs, but we still ate the same MRE's and dipped the same tobacco.

    I had a lot of fun experiences with the Recon guys, stuff that a few of us got invited to on our off hours like doing a static line jump out of a C150 or a day of rappelling on a cliff side or what have you. But every SEAL that I've ever met or heard about acted like I owed them something, and that is something that has always rubbed me the wrong way.

  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    There's some new details coming out about that shit in Georgia where the cops opened fire on a car full of children. Luckily none of them were killed but the kids are saying the cops pistol-whipped one of the older ones, a fifteen year old boy, causing a gash under his eye. All things told it's a miracle that's all that happened.

  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    You’d think that under this increased scrutiny, that the police would be extra careful to follow procedures to a T.

    But they seam to be acting more erratic than usual.

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    You’d think that under this increased scrutiny, that the police would be extra careful to follow procedures to a T.

    But they seam to be acting more erratic than usual.

    Or they are following procedures to a T and the majority of the country is just now realizing how deeply fucked they are on a fundamental level.

  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Quid wrote: »
    Label wrote: »
    Man seen in area of homemade explosive at Portland protest ID’ed as ex-Navy SEAL
    https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/10/man-seen-in-area-of-homemade-explosive-at-portland-protest-ided-as-ex-navy-seal/
    Shortly after someone threw makeshift explosive devices at protesters in Southeast Portland early Saturday morning, a man wearing dark clothes and carrying a military style helmet with night-vision goggles was videotaped near the area.

    Multiple people say the man in the video appears to be a retired U.S. Navy SEAL and former Central Intelligence Agency contractor who has worked in Afghanistan — and spoken out on social media against the nightly Portland demonstrations.

    No one was injured in the small explosions, but the attack suggests a new, dangerous dynamic. For the past 73 days of protests against systemic racism and police violence, there has been a continuous fear that right-wing demonstrators would become involved, leading to violence. Now, it appears that may have happened.
    Also, there are allegations of domestic violence in this guy's history.
    A 2014 trial memorandum submitted by his soon to be ex-wife said they separated in March 2013 because of domestic violence.

    “Given the sensitive nature of his work as a government independent contractor, Wife never reported any incidents to law enforcement,” the memorandum says. “Until now, she has agreed to keep the details of his abusive behavior out of the court file in order to preserve his employment.”


    I expect this to get worse before it gets better.

    Man, the SEALs must be a breeding ground for awful assholes.

    They're utterly fucking miserable to work with. The most self entitled assholes in the service. I've yet to meet one who wasn't infuriating.

    In comparison, the few green beret I've interacted with have been decent, chill people. But then they're expected to be able to interact and help others instead of just swoop in, kill someone, then leave.

    Way back in the day when I was stationed at Pendleton with the 1st Marine Division, we'd regularly conduct training ops with our Recon guys and (very rarely) some Force Recon guys. Super chill dudes who still recognized that we were all still just a bunch of leathernecks, we just had different jobs, but we still ate the same MRE's and dipped the same tobacco.

    I had a lot of fun experiences with the Recon guys, stuff that a few of us got invited to on our off hours like doing a static line jump out of a C150 or a day of rappelling on a cliff side or what have you. But every SEAL that I've ever met or heard about acted like I owed them something, and that is something that has always rubbed me the wrong way.

    I remember walking out of Under Siege 2: Dark Territory and witnessing a conversation that could be summed up as, "The bad guys were a perfect representation of every Navy Seal I have ever met, most especially the one who gets killed while bragging about how many ways he knows how to kill someone"

    Edit: I went looking for the clip and nothing from Under Siege 2 looks quite right. May have been Broken Arrow, but I am not finding the scene on YouTube and I can't remember any other 90's fights with evil US military on a moving train movies. Definitely remember the tech guy fighting off a good guy (female lead?) and bragging about how much of a trained killer he was right before getting his comeuppance though

    Ringo on
  • PhotosaurusPhotosaurus Bay Area, CARegistered User regular
    I don't know if this is directly related to the thread, but it seems like the most suitable spot for this. If not, I can delete.

    Military helicopter shot at over Virginia, injuring a crew member


    The article doesn't make any direct ties, but I don't know if it takes a huge leap to get from the current situation, overall, to this point. But something about this feels like crossing a particular line that I didn't see coming.

    "If complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards'."
  • jdarksunjdarksun Struggler VARegistered User regular
    I don't know if this is directly related to the thread, but it seems like the most suitable spot for this. If not, I can delete.

    Military helicopter shot at over Virginia, injuring a crew member


    The article doesn't make any direct ties, but I don't know if it takes a huge leap to get from the current situation, overall, to this point. But something about this feels like crossing a particular line that I didn't see coming.
    Manassas isn't exactly a protest hotbed, it's probably unrelated.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I don't know if this is directly related to the thread, but it seems like the most suitable spot for this. If not, I can delete.

    Military helicopter shot at over Virginia, injuring a crew member


    The article doesn't make any direct ties, but I don't know if it takes a huge leap to get from the current situation, overall, to this point. But something about this feels like crossing a particular line that I didn't see coming.

    There is nothing in that link that connects it to the police brutality protests.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I wonder how much the whole "SEAL Team 6" thing got to their heads about how awesome they are.

    AFAIK this was a big part of it. Or so I remember people writing about it claiming. They got famous and it attracted shittier people to join up and created a .... we'll go with "less professional" atmosphere. All the stories created this idea, within the SEALs themselves, that they are lethal badasses or something and that changes how people behave.

    Also, I believe a ton more deployments then usual leading to stress and burnout on top of all that.

    This sort of "we are elite" cult-like behavior is absolutely ancient and its usefulness in controlling physically brutal but mentally inept individuals has been exploited countless times throughout human history. Special combat units with unique privileges, kill teams, royal guards, officers, etc; virtually every large military force constructs something like this at some point or another.

    I mean, this is one of the core concepts that Dune brings draws up to critique over fifty years ago: building an elite loyal-to-the-death combat group is relatively easy, all you need to do is give them better training, better gear, extra privileges, and feed them constant reminders that they are the "chosen" elite, above and beyond the "common" soldier and especially civilians. Throw in some enigmatic emblems, stupid secret handshakes, and a pile of repressed homoerotic hazing "rituals" and whammo, you've got yourself deathtroopers who have completely lost themselves in their own made-up mythology. It's basically as if a group took the 40k Space Marine mythos super-seriously, except they use real guns with their bizarro military cult. And the ones who get exposed to actual combat get to get really fucked up with PTSD and all of that, making them even more reliant on the other members of their group as the only relatable people they know.

    Something like SEAL Team 6 has been told they're the best and that their value lies in their unmatched skills (which is a blatant lie), when the real value is a having a group of incredibly loyal murderers who are so convinced of their own mythology that they will gladly risk death to murder people for whoever is giving the orders.

    Not surprisingly, this cult-like bullshit has infected police forces, resulting in cops who largely view civilians as inept sheep with themselves as the wolves.

    ...it never occurred to me that the cult-like bullshit was a deliberate tactic to attract and corral society's born killers. That makes a weird kind of perfect sense.

    Is that a conscious thing societies do, or is it one of those social adaptive patterns we're not really aware of?

  • DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Label wrote: »
    Man seen in area of homemade explosive at Portland protest ID’ed as ex-Navy SEAL
    https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/10/man-seen-in-area-of-homemade-explosive-at-portland-protest-ided-as-ex-navy-seal/
    Shortly after someone threw makeshift explosive devices at protesters in Southeast Portland early Saturday morning, a man wearing dark clothes and carrying a military style helmet with night-vision goggles was videotaped near the area.

    Multiple people say the man in the video appears to be a retired U.S. Navy SEAL and former Central Intelligence Agency contractor who has worked in Afghanistan — and spoken out on social media against the nightly Portland demonstrations.

    No one was injured in the small explosions, but the attack suggests a new, dangerous dynamic. For the past 73 days of protests against systemic racism and police violence, there has been a continuous fear that right-wing demonstrators would become involved, leading to violence. Now, it appears that may have happened.
    Also, there are allegations of domestic violence in this guy's history.
    A 2014 trial memorandum submitted by his soon to be ex-wife said they separated in March 2013 because of domestic violence.

    “Given the sensitive nature of his work as a government independent contractor, Wife never reported any incidents to law enforcement,” the memorandum says. “Until now, she has agreed to keep the details of his abusive behavior out of the court file in order to preserve his employment.”


    I expect this to get worse before it gets better.

    Man, the SEALs must be a breeding ground for awful assholes.

    They're utterly fucking miserable to work with. The most self entitled assholes in the service. I've yet to meet one who wasn't infuriating.

    In comparison, the few green beret I've interacted with have been decent, chill people. But then they're expected to be able to interact and help others instead of just swoop in, kill someone, then leave.

    Way back in the day when I was stationed at Pendleton with the 1st Marine Division, we'd regularly conduct training ops with our Recon guys and (very rarely) some Force Recon guys. Super chill dudes who still recognized that we were all still just a bunch of leathernecks, we just had different jobs, but we still ate the same MRE's and dipped the same tobacco.

    I had a lot of fun experiences with the Recon guys, stuff that a few of us got invited to on our off hours like doing a static line jump out of a C150 or a day of rappelling on a cliff side or what have you. But every SEAL that I've ever met or heard about acted like I owed them something, and that is something that has always rubbed me the wrong way.

    I remember walking out of Under Siege 2: Dark Territory and witnessing a conversation that could be summed up as, "The bad guys were a perfect representation of every Navy Seal I have ever met, most especially the one who gets killed while bragging about how many ways he knows how to kill someone"

    Edit: I went looking for the clip and nothing from Under Siege 2 looks quite right. May have been Broken Arrow, but I am not finding the scene on YouTube and I can't remember any other 90's fights with evil US military on a moving train movies. Definitely remember the tech guy fighting off a good guy (female lead?) and bragging about how much of a trained killer he was right before getting his comeuppance though

    Broken Arrow was the one with the boxing match that is echoed in the train later on, with Travolta being the traitor agent.

    steam_sig.png( < . . .
  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I wonder how much the whole "SEAL Team 6" thing got to their heads about how awesome they are.

    AFAIK this was a big part of it. Or so I remember people writing about it claiming. They got famous and it attracted shittier people to join up and created a .... we'll go with "less professional" atmosphere. All the stories created this idea, within the SEALs themselves, that they are lethal badasses or something and that changes how people behave.

    Also, I believe a ton more deployments then usual leading to stress and burnout on top of all that.

    This sort of "we are elite" cult-like behavior is absolutely ancient and its usefulness in controlling physically brutal but mentally inept individuals has been exploited countless times throughout human history. Special combat units with unique privileges, kill teams, royal guards, officers, etc; virtually every large military force constructs something like this at some point or another.

    I mean, this is one of the core concepts that Dune brings draws up to critique over fifty years ago: building an elite loyal-to-the-death combat group is relatively easy, all you need to do is give them better training, better gear, extra privileges, and feed them constant reminders that they are the "chosen" elite, above and beyond the "common" soldier and especially civilians. Throw in some enigmatic emblems, stupid secret handshakes, and a pile of repressed homoerotic hazing "rituals" and whammo, you've got yourself deathtroopers who have completely lost themselves in their own made-up mythology. It's basically as if a group took the 40k Space Marine mythos super-seriously, except they use real guns with their bizarro military cult. And the ones who get exposed to actual combat get to get really fucked up with PTSD and all of that, making them even more reliant on the other members of their group as the only relatable people they know.

    Something like SEAL Team 6 has been told they're the best and that their value lies in their unmatched skills (which is a blatant lie), when the real value is a having a group of incredibly loyal murderers who are so convinced of their own mythology that they will gladly risk death to murder people for whoever is giving the orders.

    Not surprisingly, this cult-like bullshit has infected police forces, resulting in cops who largely view civilians as inept sheep with themselves as the wolves.

    ...it never occurred to me that the cult-like bullshit was a deliberate tactic to attract and corral society's born killers. That makes a weird kind of perfect sense.

    Is that a conscious thing societies do, or is it one of those social adaptive patterns we're not really aware of?

    Bit of both, I think? Like, if you want to mold people into ruthless killers, there are some very obvious and well thought out ways to do that and humanity has successfully practiced that trick for thousands of years. However I do think that you can point to lots of eras in history and say "this is where we forgot that there are predictable consequences to these actions"

    It's easy to look at the past failures as something only 'unevolved' humans succumb to, and believe that nothing like that is possible in our present day civilized society.

    You played with those Navy Seals in preschool! They had a paper route to earn money for bubblegum at Little League! You rode in a limo with them to Senior Prom! Those guys couldn't possibly become <insert fanatical killer of your time period/culture>! They just want to serve and protect <The State>!

  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Calica wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I wonder how much the whole "SEAL Team 6" thing got to their heads about how awesome they are.

    AFAIK this was a big part of it. Or so I remember people writing about it claiming. They got famous and it attracted shittier people to join up and created a .... we'll go with "less professional" atmosphere. All the stories created this idea, within the SEALs themselves, that they are lethal badasses or something and that changes how people behave.

    Also, I believe a ton more deployments then usual leading to stress and burnout on top of all that.

    This sort of "we are elite" cult-like behavior is absolutely ancient and its usefulness in controlling physically brutal but mentally inept individuals has been exploited countless times throughout human history. Special combat units with unique privileges, kill teams, royal guards, officers, etc; virtually every large military force constructs something like this at some point or another.

    I mean, this is one of the core concepts that Dune brings draws up to critique over fifty years ago: building an elite loyal-to-the-death combat group is relatively easy, all you need to do is give them better training, better gear, extra privileges, and feed them constant reminders that they are the "chosen" elite, above and beyond the "common" soldier and especially civilians. Throw in some enigmatic emblems, stupid secret handshakes, and a pile of repressed homoerotic hazing "rituals" and whammo, you've got yourself deathtroopers who have completely lost themselves in their own made-up mythology. It's basically as if a group took the 40k Space Marine mythos super-seriously, except they use real guns with their bizarro military cult. And the ones who get exposed to actual combat get to get really fucked up with PTSD and all of that, making them even more reliant on the other members of their group as the only relatable people they know.

    Something like SEAL Team 6 has been told they're the best and that their value lies in their unmatched skills (which is a blatant lie), when the real value is a having a group of incredibly loyal murderers who are so convinced of their own mythology that they will gladly risk death to murder people for whoever is giving the orders.

    Not surprisingly, this cult-like bullshit has infected police forces, resulting in cops who largely view civilians as inept sheep with themselves as the wolves.

    ...it never occurred to me that the cult-like bullshit was a deliberate tactic to attract and corral society's born killers. That makes a weird kind of perfect sense.

    Is that a conscious thing societies do, or is it one of those social adaptive patterns we're not really aware of?

    There was a study I read once that showed that 50% of the population had the reflexes visual acuity and can be trained physically to be In special forces. They are looking for the 3% of those with the acumen that can look at a human who is not a direct threat to them or others, and pull the trigger.

    zepherin on
  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I wonder how much the whole "SEAL Team 6" thing got to their heads about how awesome they are.

    AFAIK this was a big part of it. Or so I remember people writing about it claiming. They got famous and it attracted shittier people to join up and created a .... we'll go with "less professional" atmosphere. All the stories created this idea, within the SEALs themselves, that they are lethal badasses or something and that changes how people behave.

    Also, I believe a ton more deployments then usual leading to stress and burnout on top of all that.

    This sort of "we are elite" cult-like behavior is absolutely ancient and its usefulness in controlling physically brutal but mentally inept individuals has been exploited countless times throughout human history. Special combat units with unique privileges, kill teams, royal guards, officers, etc; virtually every large military force constructs something like this at some point or another.

    I mean, this is one of the core concepts that Dune brings draws up to critique over fifty years ago: building an elite loyal-to-the-death combat group is relatively easy, all you need to do is give them better training, better gear, extra privileges, and feed them constant reminders that they are the "chosen" elite, above and beyond the "common" soldier and especially civilians. Throw in some enigmatic emblems, stupid secret handshakes, and a pile of repressed homoerotic hazing "rituals" and whammo, you've got yourself deathtroopers who have completely lost themselves in their own made-up mythology. It's basically as if a group took the 40k Space Marine mythos super-seriously, except they use real guns with their bizarro military cult. And the ones who get exposed to actual combat get to get really fucked up with PTSD and all of that, making them even more reliant on the other members of their group as the only relatable people they know.

    Something like SEAL Team 6 has been told they're the best and that their value lies in their unmatched skills (which is a blatant lie), when the real value is a having a group of incredibly loyal murderers who are so convinced of their own mythology that they will gladly risk death to murder people for whoever is giving the orders.

    Not surprisingly, this cult-like bullshit has infected police forces, resulting in cops who largely view civilians as inept sheep with themselves as the wolves.

    ...it never occurred to me that the cult-like bullshit was a deliberate tactic to attract and corral society's born killers. That makes a weird kind of perfect sense.

    Is that a conscious thing societies do, or is it one of those social adaptive patterns we're not really aware of?

    There was a study I read once that showed that 50% of the population had the reflexes visual acuity and can be trained physically to be In special forces. They are looking for the 3% of those with the acumen that can look at a human who is not a direct threat to them or others, and pull the trigger.

    And also willing to do a lot of running during training. A LOT of running.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

    Steam Profile
    3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I wonder how much the whole "SEAL Team 6" thing got to their heads about how awesome they are.

    AFAIK this was a big part of it. Or so I remember people writing about it claiming. They got famous and it attracted shittier people to join up and created a .... we'll go with "less professional" atmosphere. All the stories created this idea, within the SEALs themselves, that they are lethal badasses or something and that changes how people behave.

    Also, I believe a ton more deployments then usual leading to stress and burnout on top of all that.

    This sort of "we are elite" cult-like behavior is absolutely ancient and its usefulness in controlling physically brutal but mentally inept individuals has been exploited countless times throughout human history. Special combat units with unique privileges, kill teams, royal guards, officers, etc; virtually every large military force constructs something like this at some point or another.

    I mean, this is one of the core concepts that Dune brings draws up to critique over fifty years ago: building an elite loyal-to-the-death combat group is relatively easy, all you need to do is give them better training, better gear, extra privileges, and feed them constant reminders that they are the "chosen" elite, above and beyond the "common" soldier and especially civilians. Throw in some enigmatic emblems, stupid secret handshakes, and a pile of repressed homoerotic hazing "rituals" and whammo, you've got yourself deathtroopers who have completely lost themselves in their own made-up mythology. It's basically as if a group took the 40k Space Marine mythos super-seriously, except they use real guns with their bizarro military cult. And the ones who get exposed to actual combat get to get really fucked up with PTSD and all of that, making them even more reliant on the other members of their group as the only relatable people they know.

    Something like SEAL Team 6 has been told they're the best and that their value lies in their unmatched skills (which is a blatant lie), when the real value is a having a group of incredibly loyal murderers who are so convinced of their own mythology that they will gladly risk death to murder people for whoever is giving the orders.

    Not surprisingly, this cult-like bullshit has infected police forces, resulting in cops who largely view civilians as inept sheep with themselves as the wolves.

    ...it never occurred to me that the cult-like bullshit was a deliberate tactic to attract and corral society's born killers. That makes a weird kind of perfect sense.

    Is that a conscious thing societies do, or is it one of those social adaptive patterns we're not really aware of?

    There was a study I read once that showed that 50% of the population had the reflexes visual acuity and can be trained physically to be In special forces. They are looking for the 3% of those with the acumen that can look at a human who is not a direct threat to them or others, and pull the trigger.

    And also willing to do a lot of running during training. A LOT of running.

    And get into political asskissing to fast track it to the likes of Fort Benning or Coronado. Anymore getting a congressional recommendation via campaigning or donations lets lots of guys get a shot at advanced training as soon as they complete basic rather than earning it like my cousin did by busting his ass for 5 years in the early 80's before getting his chance at Pendelton and making Force Recon.

    No matter where you go...there you are.
    ~ Buckaroo Banzai
This discussion has been closed.