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[Homeowner/House] Thread. How long is it going to take? Two weeks!

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Posts

  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Does anyone have the skinny on modern washers/dryers?

    I think my washer is dead, I also think it's from 1997 so I'm not too beat up about it, and so this seems like an opportunity to switch to nice modern (reliable/dumb) stackers.

    Depending on your washer you may want to look into fixing it. I know I sound like an old right now, but modern appliances aren't built to last like older ones are. If it's just something like a motor or a pump, that can be fixed relatively inexpensively and might be worth it. New appliances.. you can buy whatever, just know that the more features they have, the more things can go wrong with them, and plan on replacing them in 5-10 years.

    We took it apart and there isn't anything obviously wrong...I am going to check some stuff with the multimeter this weekend but also, I assume both machines are wildly less efficient in energy and water than a newer on would be.

    Also it's not like 1997 whirlpool was a bastion of quality.

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    GrpAhic DeiGn is My PAssIon
    ChaosHat
  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited May 7
    see317 wrote: »
    Courtesy of best-of-zillow, a house whose interior really needs to calm down a bit.

    https://www.rew.ca/properties/3288935/2761-e-24th-avenue-vancouver-bc#

    I'm not sure exactly which side of the line it falls on, between hoarder on one side, and overenthusiastic amateur museum curator on the other, but it's a close thing.

    1.5 million, and no cave? WTF, Canada?

    That's a cheap house for Vancouver.

    Here's it's property assessment: https://www.bcassessment.ca//Property/Info/QTAwMDAwMlpOOA==

    Land value is a hell of a drug here. Like, that will probably sell for way over asking, get demolished, have a new house built and be sold for over 2.5 million.

    Corvus on
    :so_raven:
    StarZapper
  • SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Does anyone have the skinny on modern washers/dryers?

    I think my washer is dead, I also think it's from 1997 so I'm not too beat up about it, and so this seems like an opportunity to switch to nice modern (reliable/dumb) stackers.

    Two schools of thought. You can go modern like an LG and get all the bells and whistles like steam, wifi, murdering Sarah Conner, etc. Or you can get a SpeedQueen set and be set for the next 50 years (with routine maintenance). I think SpeedQueen even started adding some of those bells and whistles on their high end models, but those are $Texas$ it looks like.

    zepherinShadowfireDoodmann
  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    I'm still a fan of the kenmore/whirlpool/maytag/amana no bells or whistles appliance train where the internals haven't changed since the 90s and the parts are all interchangeable.
    They at least seem pretty easy to get parts for and are relatively repairable.

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
    StarZapper
  • evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Does anyone have the skinny on modern washers/dryers?

    I think my washer is dead, I also think it's from 1997 so I'm not too beat up about it, and so this seems like an opportunity to switch to nice modern (reliable/dumb) stackers.

    Depending on your washer you may want to look into fixing it. I know I sound like an old right now, but modern appliances aren't built to last like older ones are. If it's just something like a motor or a pump, that can be fixed relatively inexpensively and might be worth it. New appliances.. you can buy whatever, just know that the more features they have, the more things can go wrong with them, and plan on replacing them in 5-10 years.

    We took it apart and there isn't anything obviously wrong...I am going to check some stuff with the multimeter this weekend but also, I assume both machines are wildly less efficient in energy and water than a newer on would be.

    Also it's not like 1997 whirlpool was a bastion of quality.

    Washers are more efficient, but that's mostly in terms of water usage. Most dryers still work by blowing hot air, and there's only so much you can do with that; mostly just moisture sensors. (I suspect there's some new dryer tech a few years out; this has been getting some attention.)

    Also, there are still appliance shortages, so I'd at least attempt to repair, through calling in a professional.

  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    edited May 7
    Corvus wrote: »
    see317 wrote: »
    Courtesy of best-of-zillow, a house whose interior really needs to calm down a bit.

    https://www.rew.ca/properties/3288935/2761-e-24th-avenue-vancouver-bc#

    I'm not sure exactly which side of the line it falls on, between hoarder on one side, and overenthusiastic amateur museum curator on the other, but it's a close thing.

    1.5 million, and no cave? WTF, Canada?

    That's a cheap house for Vancouver.

    Here's it's property assessment: https://www.bcassessment.ca//Property/Info/QTAwMDAwMlpOOA==

    Land value is a hell of a drug here. Like, that will probably sell for way over asking, get demolished, have a new house built and be sold for over 2.5 million.

    Who buys these things? Like, I'm technically a 1%er and I sure as shit can't afford to buy a 2.5mil house. And certainly would not buy a 2.5 mil house that size. Is Vancouver just populated by people who inherited their land mixed with the 0.1%? Or is this where the people from HGTV go who are a married couple, one a self-employed cat manicurist and the other a professional light-bulb installer, with four children and a maximum budget of 4.3 million dollars?

    CptHamilton on
    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
    Doodmann
  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited May 7
    Corvus wrote: »
    see317 wrote: »
    Courtesy of best-of-zillow, a house whose interior really needs to calm down a bit.

    https://www.rew.ca/properties/3288935/2761-e-24th-avenue-vancouver-bc#

    I'm not sure exactly which side of the line it falls on, between hoarder on one side, and overenthusiastic amateur museum curator on the other, but it's a close thing.

    1.5 million, and no cave? WTF, Canada?

    That's a cheap house for Vancouver.

    Here's it's property assessment: https://www.bcassessment.ca//Property/Info/QTAwMDAwMlpOOA==

    Land value is a hell of a drug here. Like, that will probably sell for way over asking, get demolished, have a new house built and be sold for over 2.5 million.

    Who buys these things? Like, I'm technically a 1%er and I sure as shit can't afford to buy a 2.5mil house. And certainly would not buy a 2.5 mil house that size. Is Vancouver just populated by people who inherited their land mixed with the 0.1%? Or is this where the people from HGTV go who are a married couple, one a self-employed cat manicurist and the other a professional light-bulb installer, with four children and a maximum budget of 4.3 million dollars?

    Credit is cheap! But yeah, I only own a single family house because I got assistance from my family and my wife and I split the house with my mother in law. Also, developers, off shore money, etc.

    Corvus on
    :so_raven:
  • notyanotya Registered User regular
    Corvus wrote: »
    see317 wrote: »
    Courtesy of best-of-zillow, a house whose interior really needs to calm down a bit.

    https://www.rew.ca/properties/3288935/2761-e-24th-avenue-vancouver-bc#

    I'm not sure exactly which side of the line it falls on, between hoarder on one side, and overenthusiastic amateur museum curator on the other, but it's a close thing.

    1.5 million, and no cave? WTF, Canada?

    That's a cheap house for Vancouver.

    Here's it's property assessment: https://www.bcassessment.ca//Property/Info/QTAwMDAwMlpOOA==

    Land value is a hell of a drug here. Like, that will probably sell for way over asking, get demolished, have a new house built and be sold for over 2.5 million.

    Who buys these things? Like, I'm technically a 1%er and I sure as shit can't afford to buy a 2.5mil house. And certainly would not buy a 2.5 mil house that size. Is Vancouver just populated by people who inherited their land mixed with the 0.1%? Or is this where the people from HGTV go who are a married couple, one a self-employed cat manicurist and the other a professional light-bulb installer, with four children and a maximum budget of 4.3 million dollars?

    For the US, over 1 percent of the population has over 10 million dollars in net worth. So them.

  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Does anyone have the skinny on modern washers/dryers?

    I think my washer is dead, I also think it's from 1997 so I'm not too beat up about it, and so this seems like an opportunity to switch to nice modern (reliable/dumb) stackers.

    Depending on your washer you may want to look into fixing it. I know I sound like an old right now, but modern appliances aren't built to last like older ones are. If it's just something like a motor or a pump, that can be fixed relatively inexpensively and might be worth it. New appliances.. you can buy whatever, just know that the more features they have, the more things can go wrong with them, and plan on replacing them in 5-10 years.

    We took it apart and there isn't anything obviously wrong...I am going to check some stuff with the multimeter this weekend but also, I assume both machines are wildly less efficient in energy and water than a newer on would be.

    Also it's not like 1997 whirlpool was a bastion of quality.

    Washers are more efficient, but that's mostly in terms of water usage. Most dryers still work by blowing hot air, and there's only so much you can do with that; mostly just moisture sensors. (I suspect there's some new dryer tech a few years out; this has been getting some attention.)

    Also, there are still appliance shortages, so I'd at least attempt to repair, through calling in a professional.

    There's also a shortage of parts for appliances. :rotate:

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
    zepherin
  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Does anyone have the skinny on modern washers/dryers?

    I think my washer is dead, I also think it's from 1997 so I'm not too beat up about it, and so this seems like an opportunity to switch to nice modern (reliable/dumb) stackers.

    Depending on your washer you may want to look into fixing it. I know I sound like an old right now, but modern appliances aren't built to last like older ones are. If it's just something like a motor or a pump, that can be fixed relatively inexpensively and might be worth it. New appliances.. you can buy whatever, just know that the more features they have, the more things can go wrong with them, and plan on replacing them in 5-10 years.

    We took it apart and there isn't anything obviously wrong...I am going to check some stuff with the multimeter this weekend but also, I assume both machines are wildly less efficient in energy and water than a newer on would be.

    Also it's not like 1997 whirlpool was a bastion of quality.

    Washers are more efficient, but that's mostly in terms of water usage. Most dryers still work by blowing hot air, and there's only so much you can do with that; mostly just moisture sensors. (I suspect there's some new dryer tech a few years out; this has been getting some attention.)

    Also, there are still appliance shortages, so I'd at least attempt to repair, through calling in a professional.

    There's also a shortage of parts for appliances. :rotate:

    The ice maker on my fridge shit the bed, and then just started working again. So I was like I will defer that repair.

  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    edited May 8
    Revised the garden plan.
    I had much much shorter "raised beds" but the grass proved a tougher opponent than I expected so I went all shock and awe with a 24" raised bed.
    Next steps are pavers and levelling of the area to make it "sit-able" (this is a non-existant term my wife made up).

    z4n4lt5gdcbv.jpg


    Edit: the fence is terrible but the cost of lumber is ridiculous right now so we agreed on 2-3 years for a real replacement.

    Aridhol on
    StarZappermatt has a problemAbsoluteZeroStabbity StyleCarpyGrudgeMichaelLCPailryderHappylilElfShadowfirelonelyahavaThawmusElvenshaeSyngyneDoodmann
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    2' is the perfect height, you can reach over without getting on your knees but not too high so tomato plants and other vine plants can grow down if needed. Looks beautiful!

    ThawmusElvenshaeDoodmann
  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    I'm into the funnest part of a "quick and easy" interior paint project. Swapping all the damn almond colored outlets and switches to white.

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
    PailryderMichaelLCAiouaElvenshaeFoolOnTheHill
  • jmcdonaldjmcdonald I voted, did you? DC(ish)Registered User regular
    Aridhol wrote: »
    Revised the garden plan.
    I had much much shorter "raised beds" but the grass proved a tougher opponent than I expected so I went all shock and awe with a 24" raised bed.
    Next steps are pavers and levelling of the area to make it "sit-able" (this is a non-existant term my wife made up).

    z4n4lt5gdcbv.jpg


    Edit: the fence is terrible but the cost of lumber is ridiculous right now so we agreed on 2-3 years for a real replacement.

    As long as the wood is solid painting the fence will get you 90% of the benefit of replacing at like 5% of the cost

    shryke wrote: »
    ...Barack "charisma isn't a dump stat, nerds" Obama...
    StarZapperGilgaronShadowfireN1tSt4lkerElvenshae
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    And 5% of the back ache.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    And 5% of the back ache.

    pfft there are clearly small humans in that picture that will be doing the actual painting while Aridhol reclines in the shade with a beverage of choice.

    ElvenshaePailryderMugsleyMichaelLC
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    And 5% of the back ache.

    pfft there are clearly small humans in that picture that will be doing the actual painting while Aridhol reclines in the shade with a beverage of choice.

    But they're not going to dig post holes for a new fence.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    And 5% of the back ache.

    pfft there are clearly small humans in that picture that will be doing the actual painting while Aridhol reclines in the shade with a beverage of choice.

    But they're not going to dig post holes for a new fence.

    They gotta learn sometime, right? :lol:

    PailryderMugsley
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Aridhol wrote: »
    Revised the garden plan.
    I had much much shorter "raised beds" but the grass proved a tougher opponent than I expected so I went all shock and awe with a 24" raised bed.
    Next steps are pavers and levelling of the area to make it "sit-able" (this is a non-existant term my wife made up).

    z4n4lt5gdcbv.jpg


    Edit: the fence is terrible but the cost of lumber is ridiculous right now so we agreed on 2-3 years for a real replacement.

    What is going on with the picnic table there? The perspective doesn't look right.

  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    And 5% of the back ache.

    pfft there are clearly small humans in that picture that will be doing the actual painting while Aridhol reclines in the shade with a beverage of choice.

    But they're not going to dig post holes for a new fence.

    I helped my dad dig postholes for his new deck last weekend, about 9 of them 48" deep because of Michigan frontline. He rented a two man auger for it.

    I will never dig postholes by hand again. Yes it was heavy and still a lot of work, but it was so much easier to be incomparable. For a $40 four hour rental it saved probably four hours of backbreaking exhausting labor using hand posthole diggers.

    I might dig like....one posthole for a mailbox or something, but if it's two or more I'm heading to the rental counter.

    Just don't underestimate how heavy it gets when its loaded up with dirt. It was still a job for three adult men rotating and taking turns amd there were a few times it took all three of us to get it back up and clear of the hole. Of course 12" diameter 48" deep holes are pretty damn big.

    BullheadHappylilElf
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Zag, that's when you say "fuck it" and rent a skid-steer/Bobcat with an auger on the end

    ----
    Ah the joys of retrofitting Ethernet.

    I have an unfinished basement and an attic. The basement currently holds the few ethernet runs I have on the main floor. Last year I mounted a 16-port switch so I had headroom to add more.

    Yesterday I scoped out using a coax run to our MBR to get most of the way between the basement and attic, so I can run some ethernet drops to my wife's office and one of the bedrooms.

    The coax run comes up through the wall between our garage and the side of the house. The garage, despite having its own attic, is (obv) not as tall as the rest of the house. The common wall can still be used to run a line up to the attic, but I'll have to drill a hole in one of the headers.

    The *fun* part is that at some point, they added some odd sister joists in the garage attic. It appears to be related to the drywall (i.e. they sistered the joists so the drywall in the garage had something to fasten to where the ceiling meets the wall). This joist was, somehow, added after the coax run, so the coax is pinned under the joist and can't be easily pulled. I'll probably have to pull the joist out or otherwise loosen it, so I can get this run to happen.

    I still think it's worth the effort, but I just have to chuckle at this point about what demons lie behind walls when you try to do something otherwise benign.

    MichaelLCGrudge
  • GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    And 5% of the back ache.

    pfft there are clearly small humans in that picture that will be doing the actual painting while Aridhol reclines in the shade with a beverage of choice.

    1517417606-20180131.png

    matt has a problemStarZapperStabbity StyleMugsleyzagdrobThawmusBullheadTrajan45ElvenshaeMichaelLCwebguy20ShadowfireAegisAbsoluteZerozepherinHappylilElfSummaryJudgmentGrudgeFoolOnTheHillButters
  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    8LKG44N.jpg?1

    That's 16 amp hours worth of sawzall battery. About 3 actual hours of cutting. Finger pointing where I started.

    I hate runner bamboo.

    Once it's all cut down I'm literally going to rent a backhoe and complete dig up everything to make sure there are no runners left.

    nibXTE7.png
    StarZapperElvenshaeShadowfireMugsleyAbsoluteZeroSporkAndrewHappylilElfFoolOnTheHill
  • notyanotya Registered User regular
    as a kid I remember killing bamboo by one by one pouring weed killer down the base of the cut down stalk.

  • PeccaviPeccavi Registered User regular
    My Appraisal Report came in today, magically at the exact price I offered. On the one hand, great! I don't have to renegotiate or cover any gap. On the other hand, I've looked at the comps pretty closely and knew I was coming in 10-20k too high, so really feels a bit like a rubber stamp.

    Which isn't an issue to me, but points to some potential systemic issues that could come up.

    PailryderGilgaronBullheadzepherin
  • StarZapperStarZapper Vermont, Bizzaro world.Registered User regular
    Appraisals frequently come in at the exact price as a buyer offered. It isn't a coincidence, they literally get a copy of the buyers contract so they know exactly what you paid. Their job is just to look around at other close comparables and make sure it's a reasonable amount and the bank doesn't stand to lose money. So as long as it's within a certain range, they'll often just go with the bid price as the market price. They did so with mine as well, matter of fact!

    KetarAbsoluteZeroMichaelLCStabbity StyleJebus314SporkAndrewPailryderGilgaronSimpsoniaCauldTrajan45ElvenshaezepherinzagdrobFoolOnTheHillDaenrisButters
  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    My appraisal was also exactly my contract price, which I expected and was a-okay with. My insurance agent, after getting it, called me up and said something like:
    "So the appraisal price. It's exactly the sales prices."
    "Yep!"
    "What, uh, what do you think about that?"
    "Um... It's good because I don't have to come up with extra money at closing?"
    "Huh. You, uh, didn't think it was...weird?"
    "Nope!"

    I guess he found it suspicious and expected me to as well? I'm pretty sure he wound up writing the policy for like $200k more than I'm paying, which I guess is good if it gets hit by a Chinese rocket part but I expect is costing me a few bucks a month. I may have to look into changing insurance again. My wife liked the guy because he was friendly but dude doesn't understand email and talks at the pace of a casette when Kevin McCallister's got his finger firmly on the rotor.

    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    i like the creativity on this but shiny metal holding plants seems like a potential issue for heat problems, although alum shouldn't heat up much.


    However, even replicating what he did with other materials it turns out looking real nice. I'm wondering if there's some other material (non-wood) that might work.

  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    You can get very similar corrugated plastic in place of the metal. Don't think you'd really have a lot of trouble with heat, though. The metal might get hot but dirt is an excellent insulator.

    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
    PailryderStarZapperShadowfireHappylilElf
  • GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    Pailryder wrote: »
    i like the creativity on this but shiny metal holding plants seems like a potential issue for heat problems, although alum shouldn't heat up much.


    However, even replicating what he did with other materials it turns out looking real nice. I'm wondering if there's some other material (non-wood) that might work.

    I would consider using that recycled plastic wood before metal. For mine, however, I used landscaping timbers stacked so the corners are pseudo box joints and nailed together with 8"x3/8" galvanized nails and then stapled landscaping fabric inside. It'll rot eventually but its strength is determined more by the shear strength of the fasteners rather than the pullout strength as with some of the other designs, so it should last a while.

    Doodmann
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    i think i settled on going with concrete blocks. i just have to put in the labor to get things smooth enough to make them look as nice as this guys (he lives in colorado). i don't know if i have the patience to do the work that he did but having done some block beds in a previous home even the quickly done ones don't look too terrible once you get the plants going.

    Elvenshae
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    I want to do this next time I have to repair / replace my raised bed:

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    GrpAhic DeiGn is My PAssIon
    Pailryder
  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    Pailryder wrote: »
    i like the creativity on this but shiny metal holding plants seems like a potential issue for heat problems, although alum shouldn't heat up much.

    The reflections could cause heat issues for the plants outside the box. But I'd be more worried about the potential for slicing yourself up on the exposed edges of the metal. Needs a wood top rail around the perimeter or at least some thin metal U-channel to slip over the top edge for protection.

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
    ElvenshaeThawmusN1tSt4lkerwebguy20
  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    The problem with a cinder block raised bed is, if you ever decide you don't want raised beds anymore you have a buttload of cinder blocks to deal with.

    nibXTE7.png
    ElvenshaeDoodmannzagdrobFoolOnTheHill
  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    cinder blocks are worth enough that you could probably have them gone in a day with a "free, come and get it" ad on craigslist

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
    DoodmannThawmusBullheadPailryderStabbity StyleElvenshaewebguy20AbsoluteZeroShadowfire
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    Pailryder wrote: »
    i like the creativity on this but shiny metal holding plants seems like a potential issue for heat problems, although alum shouldn't heat up much.

    The reflections could cause heat issues for the plants outside the box. But I'd be more worried about the potential for slicing yourself up on the exposed edges of the metal. Needs a wood top rail around the perimeter or at least some thin metal U-channel to slip over the top edge for protection.

    for sure, he actually caps the top and puts the side into the wood so its not razors as you try to pick weeds :)

  • StarZapperStarZapper Vermont, Bizzaro world.Registered User regular
    You can always go with a tried and true cheap method, building raised beds out of old used tires. Not the prettiest thing, but a very effective reuse for them! Not to mention they can be found free, on the sides of every road worldwide.

  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    I built mine out of cedar and I just clean them up and oil them every year. Seem to be holding up so far. The worst part was filling them up with good soil. Those big bags of garden soil they sell at the home improvement store don't go as far as you'd think.

    cs6f034fsffl.jpg
    ThawmusElvenshaeMichaelLC
  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    Yeah my wife and I are looking to do raised beds next year, and I'm not looking forward to trying to track down decent soil.

    steam_sig.png
    Twitch: Thawmus83
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  • StarZapperStarZapper Vermont, Bizzaro world.Registered User regular
    I mean, most landscaping/excavating companies are more than happy to deliver a truckload of good soil/compost wherever for dirt cheap. Just call around until you find a good price, because yeah otherwise you'll be making alot of trips to home depot if you're doing it by the bag.

    PailryderBullheadzagdrob
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