[D&D Discussion] The real monsters are the friends we made along the way.

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  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    edited October 2
    So, different mechanic question for you all. 5e uses a pretty crazy amount of different saves.

    What happens if you compress things down into 4e style Reflex, Fortiude, Will, players get proficney in two as it makes sense, and get to assign a stat each? It obviously makes player saving throws WAY better, but i'm not sure that's a bad thing given one of the complaints i've heard about high level 5e is that saving throws start getting pretty brutal in general.

    Honestly dude, I would seriously recommend checking out 13th age. I think it'd do what you want better, and it deals with custom monsters better, AND it's super easy to come from 5e to it, as it's built on the OGL.

    As someone who has played higher level D&D 5e, saves aren't too bad. Not enough that I would worry about fixing them. The biggest issue is super high level save or suck/die con save spells. They are the real fuckers. When a DM calls for a con save at high level the entire table should give a collective shudder. Though it's not nearly as deadly as it was in 3.5.

    Honestly the biggest fuck you I've ever seen is an intellect devourer from a random encounter in the underdark taking out one of our players and replacing him. It was so out of left field and happily the DM and the player were able to roll with the punch and make it work.

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    webguy20 wrote: »
    So, different mechanic question for you all. 5e uses a pretty crazy amount of different saves.

    What happens if you compress things down into 4e style Reflex, Fortiude, Will, players get proficney in two as it makes sense, and get to assign a stat each? It obviously makes player saving throws WAY better, but i'm not sure that's a bad thing given one of the complaints i've heard about high level 5e is that saving throws start getting pretty brutal in general.

    Honestly dude, I would seriously recommend checking out 13th age. I think it'd do what you want better, and it deals with custom monsters better, AND it's super easy to come from 5e to it, as it's built on the OGL.

    As someone who has played higher level D&D 5e, saves aren't too bad. Not enough that I would worry about fixing them. The biggest issue is super high level save or suck/die con save spells. They are the real fuckers. When a DM calls for a con save at high level the entire table should give a collective shudder. Though it's not nearly as deadly as it was in 3.5.

    Honestly the biggest fuck you I've ever seen is an intellect devourer from a random encounter in the underdark taking out one of our players and replacing him. It was so out of left field and happily the DM and the player were able to roll with the punch and make it work.

    I should give it a look, but i'll be honest: I am pretty happy just fucking around with 5e. It's a comfort food sort of deal, you know? And some of this stuff like wondering about the saves is purely "Hey, i wonder if..." or "What happens if i twist this knob?".

    Game design is a passion!

    I'll admit the whole icon thing puts me off, and that's just purely one of this irrational and unjustified sticking points.

    But i'll def give it a look and see what i think

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  • DenadaDenada Registered User regular
    I'm always the dissenting opinion on this: I really don't like 13th Age. Between 13th Age and 5E I would actually pick 5E every time.

    For the saves question, it would be a somewhat significant change to 5E to use 4E or 13A's systems. Both systems turn saves around and make them a defense that is attacked, just like AC. Saving Throws are their own separate thing. Both systems also derive those defenses (either AC/Fortitude/Reflex/Will or AC/Physical Defense/Mental Defense) via a calculation of a grouping of stats + bonuses from character options / equipment.

    So your big questions are going to be a) do attacks against the other defenses use the same attack bonus? and b) How do you calculate these new defenses and what are the "correct" numbers for a given level/role?

  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    webguy20 wrote: »
    So, different mechanic question for you all. 5e uses a pretty crazy amount of different saves.

    What happens if you compress things down into 4e style Reflex, Fortiude, Will, players get proficney in two as it makes sense, and get to assign a stat each? It obviously makes player saving throws WAY better, but i'm not sure that's a bad thing given one of the complaints i've heard about high level 5e is that saving throws start getting pretty brutal in general.

    Honestly dude, I would seriously recommend checking out 13th age. I think it'd do what you want better, and it deals with custom monsters better, AND it's super easy to come from 5e to it, as it's built on the OGL.

    As someone who has played higher level D&D 5e, saves aren't too bad. Not enough that I would worry about fixing them. The biggest issue is super high level save or suck/die con save spells. They are the real fuckers. When a DM calls for a con save at high level the entire table should give a collective shudder. Though it's not nearly as deadly as it was in 3.5.

    Honestly the biggest fuck you I've ever seen is an intellect devourer from a random encounter in the underdark taking out one of our players and replacing him. It was so out of left field and happily the DM and the player were able to roll with the punch and make it work.

    I should give it a look, but i'll be honest: I am pretty happy just fucking around with 5e. It's a comfort food sort of deal, you know? And some of this stuff like wondering about the saves is purely "Hey, i wonder if..." or "What happens if i twist this knob?".

    Game design is a passion!

    I'll admit the whole icon thing puts me off, and that's just purely one of this irrational and unjustified sticking points.

    But i'll def give it a look and see what i think

    I ignore the icons, and it works just fine, or I homebrew my own. I would like more practice with them, and I can see how they can be useful if you want all your players to have connections to the larger 13th age world.

    @Denada What don't you like about 13th age, I'm curious! I feel that it does a decent job of straddling the line of being a 4.5 clone.

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  • DenadaDenada Registered User regular
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Denada What don't you like about 13th age, I'm curious! I feel that it does a decent job of straddling the line of being a 4.5 clone.

    Personally I really didn't like the icons or the relationship rolls. There was just so much improvisational burden wrapped up in that system, and it didn't feel like the game did anything to help me do that heavy lifting at the start of every session.

    I also was not a fan of the class designs, specifically how complexity was directly tied to your class. Like there's no way to play a simple wizard or a complex paladin. You just can't. You can finagle things a little with feat choice but it was really more of a bandaid solution.

    I didn't like the design of magic items in general. It was either a throwaway consumable or a legendary item with a complex personality and goals and stuff, but the core book gave you very few examples to work with. It was a lot of "figure it out" sold as narrative freedom for the GM when to me it felt like a cost-cutting measure.

    Same went for monsters tbh, there just wasn't enough there and I didn't want to have to write my own Monster Manual.

    The One Unique Thing is something that I liked, but is so inconsequential in a mechanical sense that it could have just been an entry on a Top 10 Ways to Add Flavor to Your Character blog post and could go with literally any game.

    Overall I really didn't see it as a 4.5. It didn't capture the feel of 4E for me and there's not really much that I feel the game does well, or at least better than the games that influenced it.

    I recognize that my feelings about it are on the rarer (and saltier) side but yeah after running it for a few months it was just a big nope from me.

  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    edited October 2
    Denada wrote: »
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Denada What don't you like about 13th age, I'm curious! I feel that it does a decent job of straddling the line of being a 4.5 clone.

    Personally I really didn't like the icons or the relationship rolls. There was just so much improvisational burden wrapped up in that system, and it didn't feel like the game did anything to help me do that heavy lifting at the start of every session.

    I also was not a fan of the class designs, specifically how complexity was directly tied to your class. Like there's no way to play a simple wizard or a complex paladin. You just can't. You can finagle things a little with feat choice but it was really more of a bandaid solution.

    I didn't like the design of magic items in general. It was either a throwaway consumable or a legendary item with a complex personality and goals and stuff, but the core book gave you very few examples to work with. It was a lot of "figure it out" sold as narrative freedom for the GM when to me it felt like a cost-cutting measure.

    Same went for monsters tbh, there just wasn't enough there and I didn't want to have to write my own Monster Manual.

    The One Unique Thing is something that I liked, but is so inconsequential in a mechanical sense that it could have just been an entry on a Top 10 Ways to Add Flavor to Your Character blog post and could go with literally any game.

    Overall I really didn't see it as a 4.5. It didn't capture the feel of 4E for me and there's not really much that I feel the game does well, or at least better than the games that influenced it.

    I recognize that my feelings about it are on the rarer (and saltier) side but yeah after running it for a few months it was just a big nope from me.

    Interesting! I find a lot of the opposite, barring having a more abstracted movement concept of near/far. I also have access to all the supplements from the humble bundle, so it really helps flesh things out. Just having the core book by itself would be a little limiting, and I do think it is a cost cutting measure because very few systems could get away with having a DM/PHB/MM book separation that isn't D&D, at least at first.

    Having the expansion books really does add a lot more context, but yea, if you're not feeling it, you're not feeling it. I've been happy that all my players seem to really enjoy the new concepts 13th age throws at them from 5e. It's certainly no 4e, which is still my favorite D&D, but for me it does scratch that itch better.

    I think one reason I like it over 5e (and D&D in general) is that it is more upfront about having to work with the players about the narrative stuff that it still doesn't provide mechanical rules for. It feels much more cooperative from the start, though that could be me putting my own value judgement on it.

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  • DenadaDenada Registered User regular
    Back when I ran it there weren't really any supplements (I think...); Eyes of the Stone Thief was still in development if I remember right. I know that's not a supplement per se, I just say that to give you an idea of the timeline. I think 13 True Ways was still new? It's all kind of a blur.

    From a mechanical perspective, I liked some of the ideas they had, like powers that changed depending on your roll. That was cool. But a lot of it really felt half-baked.

    But yeah I think the nail in the coffin was the session where my paladin player just kind of looked at the map dejectedly and asked, "How come all these grunt enemies can do all these cool things, but all I can do is sometimes hit harder?" Having to tell a player that they don't get options because they wanted to play a paladin just sucks.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    btw all the games my group play in have minor feats now and the list has grown to be several hundred large, every 2 levels you get one

    monsters and encounters need to be more challenging to compensate but it really makes your character feel ultra unique

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    I liked the new Warlord, from what little I played of 13A.

    Warlord > no Warlord, IMO

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  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    edited October 2
    Denada wrote: »
    Back when I ran it there weren't really any supplements (I think...); Eyes of the Stone Thief was still in development if I remember right. I know that's not a supplement per se, I just say that to give you an idea of the timeline. I think 13 True Ways was still new? It's all kind of a blur.

    From a mechanical perspective, I liked some of the ideas they had, like powers that changed depending on your roll. That was cool. But a lot of it really felt half-baked.

    But yeah I think the nail in the coffin was the session where my paladin player just kind of looked at the map dejectedly and asked, "How come all these grunt enemies can do all these cool things, but all I can do is sometimes hit harder?" Having to tell a player that they don't get options because they wanted to play a paladin just sucks.

    I will say, after reading the Paladin, they aren't that much different than the 5e Paladin. They get less spell casting, but 5e Paladins are built to consume a fair amount of spell slots smiting anyways. I actually like how they unhook smiting from spell casting in 13th age. At level 1 I would have smite by default, I could take a cleric spell, a lay on hands ability, and probably Bastion to defend the other players. Then probably when I get another trait, I would take the Paladin's Challenge to lock down big enemies in a battle, then probably finally Fearless to really set the concept of a Holy warrior standing on the front lines against all odds. I'm not 100% which feat paths I would go down, for sure smite, but the other ones are interesting too.

    I think the big thing I miss the most is the channel divinity powers. The different subclass channel divinities provide a nice dose of flavor for the 5e Paladins. I think if a player wanted a bit more of a complex Paladin I might bring that over.

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  • DenadaDenada Registered User regular
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Denada wrote: »
    Back when I ran it there weren't really any supplements (I think...); Eyes of the Stone Thief was still in development if I remember right. I know that's not a supplement per se, I just say that to give you an idea of the timeline. I think 13 True Ways was still new? It's all kind of a blur.

    From a mechanical perspective, I liked some of the ideas they had, like powers that changed depending on your roll. That was cool. But a lot of it really felt half-baked.

    But yeah I think the nail in the coffin was the session where my paladin player just kind of looked at the map dejectedly and asked, "How come all these grunt enemies can do all these cool things, but all I can do is sometimes hit harder?" Having to tell a player that they don't get options because they wanted to play a paladin just sucks.

    I will say, after reading the Paladin, they aren't that much different than the 5e Paladin. They get less spell casting, but 5e Paladins are built to consume a fair amount of spell slots smiting anyways. I actually like how they unhook smiting from spell casting in 13th age. At level 1 I would have smite by default, I could take a cleric spell, a lay on hands ability, and probably Bastion to defend the other players. Then probably when I get another trait, I would take the Paladin's Challenge to lock down big enemies in a battle, then probably finally Fearless to really set the concept of a Holy warrior standing on the front lines against all odds. I'm not 100% which feat paths I would go down, for sure smite, but the other ones are interesting too.

    I think the big thing I miss the most is the channel divinity powers. The different subclass channel divinities provide a nice dose of flavor for the 5e Paladins. I think if a player wanted a bit more of a complex Paladin I might bring that over.

    That's kind of my point about 13th Age and the Paladin in particular. Round to round, all you can really do is attack once, and then sometimes attack once but harder. If you spend a talent you can get a spell. If you spend all your talents a certain way, you can kind of emulate the basic D&D Paladin. Round to round, it's a boring class.

    Compared to a 4E Paladin, I don't see the 13A Paladin as a progression or evolution in any way. It just doesn't do anything better, and in my opinion is worse in most ways. It takes almost your entire level progression to gain parity with a first level 4E Paladin.

    Even compared to a 5E Paladin, if you're intentional you can get pretty close with the 13A Paladin, but then you're done. You've spent all your character design choices and you're right back at a basic 5E Paladin that hasn't taken an Oath yet.

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited October 3
    Okay had a highdea last night about an NPC caster that mostly just copies other people's spells I'm trying to figure out how to do it as a subclass for funsies (I know I could just make an npc block that does it), I originally said wizard but now that I'm thinking about it I think sorcerer might work better. So I'm making the memetic soul. It's still a work in progress, but this is the basic framework mechanically:
    1st level: you have advantage on checks to imitate sounds and people's voices (might just make it perfect mimicry)

    1st level: as a reaction, when you see someone else successfully cast a spell you may add it to your list of spells known regardless of if it would normally be on the sorcerer class spell list. The spell remains on your list of spells known until you complete a short rest or use this feature again. The spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots already.

    6th level: as a reaction when you see someone else cast a spell that is on your list of known spells you can spend sorcery points equal to half its spell level rounded down (free for cantrips) to cast that spell.

    14th level: ? It's usually a non sorcery point utility or limited power of some kind, I'm trying to think of a memetic non sorcery point utility power, maybe something with repeating dice rolls, call it memetic fate or some shit, maybe something like when you make an attack, check, or save you can keep the d20 roll for your next attack, check, or save. useable charisma mod times per day.

    18th level: double spell: when you cast a spell you can spend sorcery points equal to its spell level to cast a second copy of the spell (basically twinned spell but without the targeting limitations)

    Sleep on
  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    Denada wrote: »
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Denada What don't you like about 13th age, I'm curious! I feel that it does a decent job of straddling the line of being a 4.5 clone.

    Personally I really didn't like the icons or the relationship rolls. There was just so much improvisational burden wrapped up in that system, and it didn't feel like the game did anything to help me do that heavy lifting at the start of every session.

    I also was not a fan of the class designs, specifically how complexity was directly tied to your class. Like there's no way to play a simple wizard or a complex paladin. You just can't. You can finagle things a little with feat choice but it was really more of a bandaid solution.

    I didn't like the design of magic items in general. It was either a throwaway consumable or a legendary item with a complex personality and goals and stuff, but the core book gave you very few examples to work with. It was a lot of "figure it out" sold as narrative freedom for the GM when to me it felt like a cost-cutting measure.

    Same went for monsters tbh, there just wasn't enough there and I didn't want to have to write my own Monster Manual.

    The One Unique Thing is something that I liked, but is so inconsequential in a mechanical sense that it could have just been an entry on a Top 10 Ways to Add Flavor to Your Character blog post and could go with literally any game.

    Overall I really didn't see it as a 4.5. It didn't capture the feel of 4E for me and there's not really much that I feel the game does well, or at least better than the games that influenced it.

    I recognize that my feelings about it are on the rarer (and saltier) side but yeah after running it for a few months it was just a big nope from me.

    You know it's wild, but I sat here reading this like, "haha, yeah, that's why I say just do X and then that's not a problem. 13th Age is great!"

    And about the third time I was like "...oooooooh"

    Like, with Icon relationship dice. I don't use them the way core does, because the core way they're used is ... not really great? I dunno. I prefer to use them another way, that I think works a lot better, makes them both useful and impactful, and meaningful. But! like, that's a house rule. That's not core, and if core doesn't do it right, then it's okay to criticize core. I think for me 13th Age just fixes the underyling problems of 4e in a way that I like, and I like the campaign setting/flavor of 13th Age, so I want to like 13th Age. That said, I've never actually enjoyed playing 13th Age as a player. But that can also be said of 5th edition. I've given it several tries, and I think I just don't like it? I dunno. It feels weird to say that, but there it is.
    this got lost and i wanted to highlight it:
    Nor is he above the general rules and principles prescribe in the books that we spent hundreds of dollars on each time there's a new edition goddammit.

    nah

    i disagree, the DM has house rules and is called out explicitly to be the "adjudicator" and this was touted as The Big Feature of 5e, "rulings not rules"

    These ... don't seem like disagreements? Just feels like you're interpreting the premise in a way that's a bit more specific to the edition. Which I agree with, honestly.

    Like:
    The Person Running the Game is not above the general rules and principles of the game itself.
    and
    D&D 5th ed calls out the DM as an adjudicator, and the edition pushes a principle of "rulings, not rules."

    are not mutually exclusive statements. They're just different levels of specificity.

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  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    btw all the games my group play in have minor feats now and the list has grown to be several hundred large, every 2 levels you get one

    monsters and encounters need to be more challenging to compensate but it really makes your character feel ultra unique
    That sounds like fun, one of my main complaints with 5E is that the relatively small feat list (with very clear winners and losers among them) makes it hard to make a character that feels mechanically unique beyond "I play this subclass".

    Well, that and that the combat itself is really simplistic unless you're a caster, but feats would go a ways to fixing that.

  • WearingglassesWearingglasses Of the friendly neighborhood variety Registered User regular
    Random idea #335 - Bump up the level cap to 25, but levels 1 and 2 are actually just backstory levels - the new level 3 serves as the old level 1, and people can generate level 1 and 2 as part of their background (or even RP it, like some do level 0s). Of course, if HP progression is preserved, this means HP thresholds change, and stuff would need to be rebalanced to fit this. Spread out the current 1-20 progression to 3-25, or maybe add some new stuff, Iunno.

    Extra optional rules - spread out the wizards current 1-20 progression to 3-25, but give martial classes extra abilities on the higher levels to anime-fy their abilities (run so fast they disappear from sight, generate a wave of energy from a sword slash, counterspell spells aimed at them purely because of muscle, etc).

  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    edited October 4
    Alright folks! I need some help brainstorming. It's for 13th age but it is mostly story and this is the most read thread, so here we are. One of my players unique things is that he is like the best at preparing "meat food", whether from a fully stocked kitchen or out in the wilderness, foraging for spices and herbs. On the flip side he doesn't actually realize he makes such good food.

    So heres where the brainstorming ideas come in. He has a wife and kid, and I already had figured on having a city festival and have the kid drag him to it, figured it would be a lot of fun to RP and also give the other characters chances to do fun side stuff, but now I'm going to see if I can have his wife and kid convince him to enter the bbq competition. IF he bites, what do you think would be a fun sidequest to get supplies? I might do some other small skill checks to root out some crooked judges and stuff, because based on his one unique thing, he IS the best, so if he can be judged fairly, he takes it.

    Would that be fun? What do you all think? For side quests for the other players to help with could be crooked ballot counters, the aforementioned judges, maybe in the pocket of big meat? Quests that could potentially split the party up into small groups. Nothing too crazy, but maybe a full 3-4 hours of fun.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Well if this is a BBQ competition obviously it’s going to be Iron Chef style

    So some of the party is going to need to sous and there should be some advantage to finding out the secret ingredient before hand (that lets you prepare spices).

    As it’s BBQ I presume the quality of the smoker and wood/charcoal you bring should matter. So finding fire elemental embers or something might give you an advantage. (Do smoke mephits give the best flavor? but I bet they’re a pain to control during the cook!)

    You might have to convince the local hot shot blacksmith/mage to make you the best smoker. (This could require fabricate to be made in time) and they might require special materials.

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  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    edited October 4
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Alright folks! I need some help brainstorming. It's for 13th age but it is mostly story and this is the most read thread, so here we are. One of my players unique things is that he is like the best at preparing "meat food", whether from a fully stocked kitchen or out in the wilderness, foraging for spices and herbs. On the flip side he doesn't actually realize he makes such good food.

    So heres where the brainstorming ideas come in. He has a wife and kid, and I already had figured on having a city festival and have the kid drag him to it, figured it would be a lot of fun to RP and also give the other characters chances to do fun side stuff, but now I'm going to see if I can have his wife and kid convince him to enter the bbq competition. IF he bites, what do you think would be a fun sidequest to get supplies? I might do some other small skill checks to root out some crooked judges and stuff, because based on his one unique thing, he IS the best, so if he can be judged fairly, he takes it.

    Would that be fun? What do you all think? For side quests for the other players to help with could be crooked ballot counters, the aforementioned judges, maybe in the pocket of big meat? Quests that could potentially split the party up into small groups. Nothing too crazy, but maybe a full 3-4 hours of fun.

    Idea diarrhea incoming!

    1) A cool reward
    I think something small, mundane but useful would be great here.
    perhaps some thing like this:
    Abi-Dalzim's secret spice shaker
    No, not that Abi-Dalzim, but they are related via a great aunt. 101 exotic and excruciatingly curated spices went into making this kitchen marvel.
    It is said that it improves the taste of any food it is applied to; even a boiled leather boot will taste like a perfectly grilled steak!

    in game perks, you might want to give the item charges and then figure out some weightings:
    - A piece of cake: Any food served to another creature will uncannily remind them of a really good meal they had once had, making them more amenable towards the cook (+3 on CHA checks for the duration of the meal).
    - Bringing home the bacon: Apply to the back of any pig and rub in vigorously. In mere moments, the pig will collapse into a pile of delicious bacon rashers.
    - Not your cup of tea: This flavour enhancement is so good that it can almost perfectly mask the trace flavour/smell of most poisons (disad. on checks made to see if this enhanced dish has been poisoned).
    - Walk on eggshells: The balance of spices applied to the dish is .. off. It isn't bad, but isn't quite right. Eaters of this meal cannot be taken be surprise in their next fight.
    - soldiers march on their bellies. During the next short rest, players that consumed the enhanced meal may add the cook's cooking modifier to each HP die used to regain hp.
    - Couch potato: I'll get up and do something in a moment. I swear! Creatures that consumed this meal will become incredibly lethargic and sleepy.

    Curse, hidden feature:
    Abi-Dalzim (yes, that one) was the one that crafted this item for his second cousin.
    He also hated the man, as it wasn't until later in life that mage became more famous than the chef.
    Upon use, roll a d100. On a 1, the shaker emits the spell eponymous of its creator.

    2) culinary intrigue!
    I'd add another layer to it. I.e. one judge has been bribed to consistently mark down the player's food, but to seal the deal the third party has also planted saboteurs amongst the staff: they will switcheroo the players food with that of a another competitor, ensuring that they receive better marks. Third party should tie into one of the players' backstories imo, failing that I'd make them an ineffective villain; someone trying to take over the world, one bakery at a time.

    3) ingredients & structure!
    given that you only want to spend 1 session on this I don't think you'll be able to squeeze in a dungeon per mystical ingredient. I'd use this opportunity to suggest to them that not only is the cooking world a cut throat business but that something isn't quite right, even by those standards (i.e. that a third party is up to no good!). Start off with no merchants having any quality produce. Then it turns out their suppliers didn't deliver and what they had has already been given to the other contestants. Hopefully the players will follow this up, it turns out a band of mercs have been hired to hinder shipments from reaching the city and torching whatever they get their hands on. Mercs being mercs, they realised that some of the produce in the wagons would fetch them a nice bonus, so they stashed away the best bits.
    This would allow you to structure the session in the following way:
    1) the opener (1h): the contest! draw them in with money and the abovementioned prize or something else or your choosing. Allude to the option of contestants bringing their own supplies, this will lead them on the goose chase and give them a fight against mercs and the hint that the contest won't be fair.
    2) the contest(1h): this would allow your party to split up safely. have half of them cook/help out in the kitchen, the other half try figure out what's happening/how the con is being played out. I'm not sure what sort of players you have, depending on their deductive capabilities and kitchen knowledge this could be quite convoluted.
    3) confronting the third party(1h): either they fail, and the cook loses, in which case you give them the information that the competition wasn't fair (a body washes up in the river, one of the paid-off staff, fake out a murder, he actually just got really drunk and fell into the river. note in pocket documenting orders) or they figure it out on their own. Third party is up to you, I'm kinda liking the idea of an off kilter halfling that wants to own all the bakeries. Adapt monsters and spells to make the fight a bit slap sticky, i.e. gingerbread men golems, scone of cold, you get the idea ;P

    this leaves you with 1h padding which I'm sure the players will eat up via planning!

    edit:
    I missed the part about the wife and kid. You could kidnap them and suspend them over a vat of acid. Regardless of the how the fight goes, they get dropped. Being a baker, the acid is, of course, citric acid, and does nothing but mildly irritate their skin.

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  • gavindelgavindel The reason all your software is brokenRegistered User regular
    I'm building a wizard's apprentice for my next character (jeez, I haven't actually been a player in years now), and I want to tweak the backgrounds for a bit more alchemy flavor. I think I can get that with a blend of Hermit
    + Sage. Backgrounds don't seem to have any real balance to them that I can discern, so here's my take:

    Alchemist's apprentice:
    Skill proficiencies: Arcana, Medicine
    Tool proficiencies: Herbalism kit
    Languages: One of your choice
    Equipment: Three heavy (and overpriced) tomes for the study of magic; wizard's robes in apprentice blue; big floppy hat; second-hand silver pocketwatch with something about 3 October.

    I've got a book! Angels, innovations, and the hubris of tiny things: Seraphim
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    gavindel wrote: »
    I'm building a wizard's apprentice for my next character (jeez, I haven't actually been a player in years now), and I want to tweak the backgrounds for a bit more alchemy flavor. I think I can get that with a blend of Hermit
    + Sage. Backgrounds don't seem to have any real balance to them that I can discern, so here's my take:

    Alchemist's apprentice:
    Skill proficiencies: Arcana, Medicine
    Tool proficiencies: Herbalism kit
    Languages: One of your choice
    Equipment: Three heavy (and overpriced) tomes for the study of magic; wizard's robes in apprentice blue; big floppy hat; second-hand silver pocketwatch with something about 3 October.

    So it's literally cannon and says in much as the PHB that you can freely swap around background features - skills for skills, tools for tools, etc.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    There is always the wand of curing. 1/day turn any 5 ft cube or less of meat into sausage.

    wbBv3fj.png
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  • gavindelgavindel The reason all your software is brokenRegistered User regular
    gavindel wrote: »
    I'm building a wizard's apprentice for my next character (jeez, I haven't actually been a player in years now), and I want to tweak the backgrounds for a bit more alchemy flavor. I think I can get that with a blend of Hermit
    + Sage. Backgrounds don't seem to have any real balance to them that I can discern, so here's my take:

    Alchemist's apprentice:
    Skill proficiencies: Arcana, Medicine
    Tool proficiencies: Herbalism kit
    Languages: One of your choice
    Equipment: Three heavy (and overpriced) tomes for the study of magic; wizard's robes in apprentice blue; big floppy hat; second-hand silver pocketwatch with something about 3 October.

    So it's literally cannon and says in much as the PHB that you can freely swap around background features - skills for skills, tools for tools, etc.

    I totally knew this and was only testing you! Sweating intesifies Ah ha, good job, you've passed. Why, with results like that you can join the wizarding guild for only 50/gp a month!

    I've got a book! Angels, innovations, and the hubris of tiny things: Seraphim
    Elvenshae
  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    gavindel wrote: »
    I'm building a wizard's apprentice for my next character (jeez, I haven't actually been a player in years now), and I want to tweak the backgrounds for a bit more alchemy flavor. I think I can get that with a blend of Hermit
    + Sage. Backgrounds don't seem to have any real balance to them that I can discern, so here's my take:

    Alchemist's apprentice:
    Skill proficiencies: Arcana, Medicine
    Tool proficiencies: Herbalism kit
    Languages: One of your choice
    Equipment: Three heavy (and overpriced) tomes for the study of magic; wizard's robes in apprentice blue; big floppy hat; second-hand silver pocketwatch with something about 3 October.

    So it's literally cannon and says in much as the PHB that you can freely swap around background features - skills for skills, tools for tools, etc.
    Oh, huh, did not pick up on that, I just thought the automated character sheet I used did that for homebrew reasons.

  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Question about Summon Greater Demon (and summoning spells in general I guess): when the demon disappears at the end of the spell, does it take anything it's holding with it?

    Teleportation spells mention that you teleport with stuff that you can carry, as do spells which let you teleport other people like Thunder Step, but Summon Greater Demon (and Banishment) don't mention it

  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    Betting there's no hard rule but the fact that certain spells specifically call out yes you keep stuff seems to imply a general rule of you don't.

    But also I don't think summons are quite the same as teleports. Feels like a different spell-energy

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  • NipsNips Luxuriating in existential crisis.Registered User regular
    edited October 5
    They're both conjuration spells, and feel like the magical equivalent of "cut [x,y,z,a,b,c]; paste [x',y',z',a',b',c']" so...?

    I dunno, I just think it funny to envision the magical underpinnings of reality as an n-dimensional array and the magic is just transforms on the array.

    I think my brain might be broken, though.

    Nips on
    JXUBxMxP0QndjQUEnTwTxOkfKmx8kWNvuc-FUtbSz_23_DAhGKe7W9spFKLXAtkpTBqM8Dt6kQrv-rS69Hi3FheL3fays2xTeVUvWR7g5UyLHnFA0frGk1BC12GYdOSRn9lbaJB-uH0htiLPJMrc9cSRsIgk5Dx7jg9K8rJVfG43lkeAWxTgcolNscW9KO2UZjKT8GMbYAFgFvu2TaMoLH8LBA5p2pm6VNYRsQK3QGjCsze1TOv2yIbCazmDwCHmjiQxNDf6LHP35msyiXo3CxuWs9Y8DQvJjvj10kWaspRNlWHKjS5w9Y0KLuIkhQKOxgaDziG290v4zBmTi-i7OfDz-foqIqKzC9wTbn9i_uU87GRitmrNAJdzRRsaTW5VQu_XX_5gCN8XCoNyu5RWWVGTsjJuyezz1_NpFa903Uj2TnFqnL1wJ-RZiFAAd2Bdut-G1pdQtdQihsq2dx_BjtmtGC3KZRyylO1t2c12dhfb0rStq4v8pg46ciOcdtT_1qm85IgUmGd7AmgLxCFPb0xnxWZvr26G-oXSqrQdjKA1zNIInSowiHcbUO2O8S5LRJVR6vQiEg0fbGXw4vqJYEn917tnzHMh8r0xom8BLKMvoFDelk6wbEeNq8w8Eyu2ouGjEMIvvJcb2az2AKQ1uE_7gdatfKG2QdvfdSBRSc35MQ=w498-h80-no
    Rhesus Positive
  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    Would explain why summoning demons is often described as having a waft of sulfur associated with it- you're transposing the demon and the atmosphere around it, so you get some of that hell sauna goodness with it.

    Also, imagine if objects weren't included- you're already an idiot for summoning a Rakshasa, but you'd also be dealing with one that's very cross for having been brought over naked.

    override367The Zombie PenguinNipswebguy20Elvenshae
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Glal wrote: »
    gavindel wrote: »
    I'm building a wizard's apprentice for my next character (jeez, I haven't actually been a player in years now), and I want to tweak the backgrounds for a bit more alchemy flavor. I think I can get that with a blend of Hermit
    + Sage. Backgrounds don't seem to have any real balance to them that I can discern, so here's my take:

    Alchemist's apprentice:
    Skill proficiencies: Arcana, Medicine
    Tool proficiencies: Herbalism kit
    Languages: One of your choice
    Equipment: Three heavy (and overpriced) tomes for the study of magic; wizard's robes in apprentice blue; big floppy hat; second-hand silver pocketwatch with something about 3 October.

    So it's literally cannon and says in much as the PHB that you can freely swap around background features - skills for skills, tools for tools, etc.
    Oh, huh, did not pick up on that, I just thought the automated character sheet I used did that for homebrew reasons.

    It's right at the start of the background segment, under "Customizing backgrounds"

    You take any two skill profs, any feature, and any combo of languages and skill profs up to two total. (So one language + one skill prof, two skill profs, two languages), plus any of hte listed background's starting supplies (unless you're doing start with gold).

    It's lowkey one of my favourite things in 5e, since it allows a lot of flex to characters and creating interesting implicit stories. Bard Knight/Gladiator (Refluffed as she earned being a knight through being a gladiator). etcera! Ther's a lot of cool emergant stuff.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Context: Last session ended with me summoning a Barlgura the other side of a door (the giant-sized keyhole providing line of sight). My hope is that the Barlgura will take out the bad guy the other side of the door, and then wink away 1d6 rounds after I stop concentrating. There is, however, a mcguffin on the bad guy that we need to collect as part of the contract. If the Barlgura picks this loot up, then disappears with it, then we're going to have to work out a way to get it back.

    My current contingency plan for this is to Charm the Barlgura into giving up its true name so I can summon it again later, hopefully while it's still holding the mcguffin.

  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    Nips wrote: »
    They're both conjuration spells, and feel like the magical equivalent of "cut [x,y,z,a,b,c]; paste [x',y',z',a',b',c']" so...?

    I dunno, I just think it funny to envision the magical underpinnings of reality as an n-dimensional array and the magic is just transforms on the array.

    I think my brain might be broken, though.

    Nah that's fair, I guess for me it's that, while a Summon definitely requires Correspondence, it's not a primarily Correspondence spell. It'd more likely be listed under Spirit, and just also require Correspondence. Teleports are basically just straight Correspondence.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    So folks, I'm gonna need some help with idea's for arch fey.

    Me and a player of mine were brainstorming idea's for her character, and she came up with the idea of her character being abducted by the archfey when she was born and having grown up as a part of their garden and a second archfey (known as the gardener) helped her to escape, making her into both a warlock and also a kalashtar in the process.

    We got to being a bit silly with this and how the character was basically like a mix of the truman show and a timeshare for archfey, so now I'm kind of on the hook to come up with a bunch of extra ones who are all sharing this unwitting Warlock.

    So please: Give me your ideas!

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    edited October 5
    Okay. So. Here me out.

    Kalashtar have two souls.

    So one soul is a warlock.

    The other?

    Oath of Vengeance Paladin

    Tox on
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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    So folks, I'm gonna need some help with idea's for arch fey.

    Me and a player of mine were brainstorming idea's for her character, and she came up with the idea of her character being abducted by the archfey when she was born and having grown up as a part of their garden and a second archfey (known as the gardener) helped her to escape, making her into both a warlock and also a kalashtar in the process.

    We got to being a bit silly with this and how the character was basically like a mix of the truman show and a timeshare for archfey, so now I'm kind of on the hook to come up with a bunch of extra ones who are all sharing this unwitting Warlock.

    So please: Give me your ideas!

    Maiden, Mother, Crone could be a solid thing to play with,esp if all 3 are different but related fey who all own a timeshare of the warlockyness. The Wild Hunt is another classic, of course,

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • SneaksSneaks Registered User regular
    edited October 5
    Gaddez wrote: »
    We got to being a bit silly with this and how the character was basically like a mix of the truman show and a timeshare for archfey, so now I'm kind of on the hook to come up with a bunch of extra ones who are all sharing this unwitting Warlock.

    So please: Give me your ideas!

    I don't know your cosmology, but the Feywild is often depicted as a “heighted” version of the material plane. Everything's more beautiful and vibrant, magic is more potent, etc. So what if one of your Archfey sees the material plane, finds it pitiably bland and limited, and… wants to find a way to fix that? To effect some sort of fundamental change to the material plane itself to make it more like the Feywild? Not destructively, necessarily, but… maybe not as concerned with the consequences as they should be.

    Sneaks on
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Tox wrote: »
    Okay. So. Here me out. Kalashatar have two souls.

    So one soul is a warlock.

    The other?

    Oath of Vengeance Paladin

    Isn't one of the souls a giant insectoid psychic manifestation of pure nightmare fuel?

    I'm saying it is clear which should be the paladin.

    NipsTynnanSteelhawkDarmakDarkPrimusMoridin889Elvenshae
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited October 5
    Sneaks wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    We got to being a bit silly with this and how the character was basically like a mix of the truman show and a timeshare for archfey, so now I'm kind of on the hook to come up with a bunch of extra ones who are all sharing this unwitting Warlock.

    So please: Give me your ideas!

    I don't know your cosmology, but the Feywild is often depicted as a “heighted” version of the material plane. Everything's more beautiful and vibrant, magic is more potent, etc. So what if one of your Archfey sees the material plane, finds it pitiably bland and limited, and… wants to find a way to fix that? To effect some sort of fundamental change to the material plane itself to make it more like the Feywild? Not destructively, necessarily, but… maybe not as concerned with the consequences as they should be.

    in my SKT game they freed an archfey from the feywild (which I made a considerably more scary place than D&D typically presents it) and have recently discovered that he's been using a CHANGE PLACES spell to swap the lower part of a horse with the lower part of a human

    so there are horse head and necks running around with human legs and centaurs

    the party has been put in charge of investigating who let this prankster archfey into the prime

    the centaur community considers this to be highly problematic

    override367 on
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  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    edited October 5
    Sneaks wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    We got to being a bit silly with this and how the character was basically like a mix of the truman show and a timeshare for archfey, so now I'm kind of on the hook to come up with a bunch of extra ones who are all sharing this unwitting Warlock.

    So please: Give me your ideas!

    I don't know your cosmology, but the Feywild is often depicted as a “heighted” version of the material plane. Everything's more beautiful and vibrant, magic is more potent, etc. So what if one of your Archfey sees the material plane, finds it pitiably bland and limited, and… wants to find a way to fix that? To effect some sort of fundamental change to the material plane itself to make it more like the Feywild? Not destructively, necessarily, but… maybe not as concerned with the consequences as they should be.

    in my SKT game they freed an archfey from the feywild (which I made a considerably more scary place than D&D typically presents it) and have recently discovered that he's been using a CHANGE PLACES spell to swap the lower part of a horse with the lower part of a human

    so there are horse head and necks running around with human legs and centaurs

    the party has been put in charge of investigating who let this prankster archfey into the prime

    the centaur community considers this to be highly problematic

    I thought you meant something different there before you elaborated.

    Kamar on
    Glaloverride367Elvenshae
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited October 5
    so we end up with horse head attached to human legs, and centaurs, to be clear
    ffYTITl.png

    override367 on
    Rhesus PositiveElvenshae
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Context: Last session ended with me summoning a Barlgura the other side of a door (the giant-sized keyhole providing line of sight). My hope is that the Barlgura will take out the bad guy the other side of the door, and then wink away 1d6 rounds after I stop concentrating. There is, however, a mcguffin on the bad guy that we need to collect as part of the contract. If the Barlgura picks this loot up, then disappears with it, then we're going to have to work out a way to get it back.

    My current contingency plan for this is to Charm the Barlgura into giving up its true name so I can summon it again later, hopefully while it's still holding the mcguffin.

    My ruling would probably be that the spell isn’t instantaneous transference. Rather the spell continually holds the target in a super position between the place they were and the place they are now. When the spell begins it may pull anything the target is wearing/wielding but when the spell ends it simply releases its hold and the super position ends returning the target to exactly where it was when it was summoned

    wbBv3fj.png
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    So folks, I'm gonna need some help with idea's for arch fey.

    Me and a player of mine were brainstorming idea's for her character, and she came up with the idea of her character being abducted by the archfey when she was born and having grown up as a part of their garden and a second archfey (known as the gardener) helped her to escape, making her into both a warlock and also a kalashtar in the process.

    We got to being a bit silly with this and how the character was basically like a mix of the truman show and a timeshare for archfey, so now I'm kind of on the hook to come up with a bunch of extra ones who are all sharing this unwitting Warlock.

    So please: Give me your ideas!

    Are they all going to be garden themed?

    A shears-handed trickster adept at trapping people in mazes, both of the hedge variety and more conceptual ones

    A shape shifting topiary bush

    They're using the Warlock to try to preserve greenery throughout the land, like fey druids

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