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[D&D Discussion] 5th Edition HD Remaster Coming in 2024, Entering the Disney Vault in 2025

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    It occurs to me that the +10 crit rule gets even stupider with war priests, since their inflict wounds are now all but guaranteed to crit for 6d10 necrotic for level one spell slots and concievably going to 18d10 at level 13.

  • jaredburtonjaredburton Registered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    gavindel wrote: »
    I often contextualize very low rolls for experts as outside influence. For example, when the bard with a +13 rolls a 1 (by the way, love the crazed fans in Nyanzaru), the magical sound system cuts out and nobody can hear a damn thing over a supersonic screech...or she discovers that she was given a cursed fiddle.

    When the fighter rolls a natural one to break in a simple door, he shatters the door so hard that the neighbours feel it...but it turns out that was a load-bearing frame. Uh-oh.

    The bardic critical fail could also be a perfectly adequate performance, maybe even an above average one with enough modifiers, but they glossed over some aspect of the setlist and included a song that people in the audience take issue with. Perhaps a folk song from those people in the other valley with whom the people who founded village have had a long and bloody feud with, or a heroic epic that casts one of the modern noble families in not the best light.

    Of course neither situation might explode right now, but the bard has possibly made an enemy - and has a sense of unease that some part of the audience was deathly quiet rather than singing along like everyone else.

    Contextualizing a natural 1 on a bard's performance roll: you started playing your new material.

  • gavindelgavindel The reason all your software is brokenRegistered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    gavindel wrote: »
    I often contextualize very low rolls for experts as outside influence. For example, when the bard with a +13 rolls a 1 (by the way, love the crazed fans in Nyanzaru), the magical sound system cuts out and nobody can hear a damn thing over a supersonic screech...or she discovers that she was given a cursed fiddle.

    When the fighter rolls a natural one to break in a simple door, he shatters the door so hard that the neighbours feel it...but it turns out that was a load-bearing frame. Uh-oh.

    The bardic critical fail could also be a perfectly adequate performance, maybe even an above average one with enough modifiers, but they glossed over some aspect of the setlist and included a song that people in the audience take issue with. Perhaps a folk song from those people in the other valley with whom the people who founded village have had a long and bloody feud with, or a heroic epic that casts one of the modern noble families in not the best light.

    Of course neither situation might explode right now, but the bard has possibly made an enemy - and has a sense of unease that some part of the audience was deathly quiet rather than singing along like everyone else.

    Contextualizing a natural 1 on a bard's performance roll: you started playing your new material.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzAgacFBr48

    Book - Royal road - Free! Seraphim === TTRPG - Wuxia - Free! Seln Alora
  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Thinking about playing around with lingering injuries with the short homebrew stuff we're doing for the next couple months, but instead of using the list in the DMs Guide where you can lose a fucking limb if you roll a 2, I'm going to use the list out of Genesys, which is a much broader list and much harder to get fucked up on. So basically in Genesys, you roll 1d100 and select your injury off the chart which goes to 151+. Basic one turn stuff is around 1-20, and stuff that takes healing checks is around 21-100 and all the really nasty stuff like losing limbs is after 100, and to go above 100 requires you to stack crit injuries (in that system you do a heal check to remove a crit injury). Each critical injury adds a +10 to the roll.

    The way I'm going to run it is you get crit, or you get knocked out, you roll a d20 on the chart and take your injury, and mark your sheet that you got crit or knocked out. Every time you get crit or knocked out after that, you add +10 to the roll. The crit count resets after a long rest. If the players have fun, then it might make it over to the regular games. Of course if they Crit against a monster then the monster gets fucked up too.

    To balance it with wizards I might have it happen to them when they fail concentration checks, since they should be getting hit less normally.

    webguy20 on
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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Yea the houserules I do for damage are Critical hit dice are never under half (rounded up) so like if you rolled a 1 on a d6, its a 4 instead. Makes criticals critical, and removes the whole "You rolled two ones on a critical firebolt" and if you do over double damage to an enemies remaining HP, it can splash onto an adjacent enemy (either to you or it). So if an enemy has 10hp left and a player does 20, another creature will get hit for 10. I play with a lot of minions and stuff, so it makes for some fun multi-kills.

    I used a house rule in my previous campaign that crits did max damage plus rolling as normal.

    Cue the Oath of Vengeance Paladin annihilating everything in his path.

    I'm currently using the default crit rules in my new campaign, though I am considering the idea that a crit also inflicts a Constitution save against a lingering injury depending on damage type. However, that would mean fire bolt has a chance to inflict a lingering injury while fireball has no chance of doing the same.

  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    Statblock I just came up with based on a 4E article about Raven Queen worshipers.
    Blackwing Censer-Bearer
    Medium humanoid (goliath), neutral

    Armor Class 12 (hide armor)
    Hit Points 67 (9d8 + 27)
    Speed 30 ft.

    STR +4 DEX +0 CON +3 INT +0 WIS +2 CHA +0

    Skills Athletics +6, Perception +4, Survival +4
    Damage Resistances cold
    Senses passive Perception 14
    Languages Common, Giant
    Challenge 3


    Special Equipment. Blackwing Mask, Calming Incense.
    Blackwing Mask. While wearing this mask the Blackwing censer-bearer has advantage on saving throws against disease and harmful gases if the DC to avoid their effects is 13 or less.
    Calming Incense. Any creature that starts its turn within 20 feet of the Blackwing censer-bearer must succeed on a DC 13 Constitution saving throw. On a failure the target is poisoned for 1 hour. While poisoned in this way the creature becomes indifferent about creatures that it is hostile toward and cannot become hostile against other creatures. This indifference ends if the target is attacked or harmed by a spell. On a success the creature is immune to Calming Incense for 24 hours.
    Powerful Build. The Blackwing censer-bearer counts as one size larger when determining its carrying capacity and the weight it can push, drag, or lift.

    Actions
    Multiattack. The Blackwing censer-bearer makes two attacks with its censer.
    Censer. +6. 1d8+4 bludgeoning damage.

    Reactions
    Stone's Endurance (Recharges after a Short or Long Rest). When the Blackwing censer-bearer takes damage, it reduces the damage taken by 9 (1d12 + 3).

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    It occurs to me that the +10 crit rule gets even stupider with war priests, since their inflict wounds are now all but guaranteed to crit for 6d10 necrotic for level one spell slots and concievably going to 18d10 at level 13.

    We have a war cleric in the party too!

    He's relented on the rule, we made a good point

    He said he liked how it increased the danger to the party but didn't want to just give it to monsters, we suggested that on specific creatures, like maybe a boss of his design, it would be a cool feature to add, but it will ruin balance on every creature

    suddenly low 1/4 monsters with poison are horrifically deadly with a 20%+ chance to do 6d6 damage to the wizard etc

  • GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    "Who should be at risk of taking a huge damage spike, the person with a million hit points?"
    "Naw mate, naw. The fucking wizard with 6HP, fuck that guy."

  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    For my money I guess I just don't really understand what a +10 rule accomplishes that an expanded crit range doesn't

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  • DecatusDecatus Registered User regular
    Yeah, the +10/-10 critical hit and critical fail rules work in PF2e because the game math is built around them, I really don't see any way to put something like that into 5e without causing a TPK very soon, or it having basically no impact at all.

    A Warforged Forge Cleric with plate and a shield, for example would pretty much never get hit with a crit if you were relying on the +10 because to hit bonuses don't really go that high. Conversely, if a Wizard or Sorc rolled poorly on stats and has an AC of 11, they're getting gibbed almost right away.

    I'm cool with homebrew and coming up with new things, but messing with the game math really isn't a great idea. If I wanted a really deadly melee boss I'd just give them a crit range of, say, 18-20 and 4 attacks like a high level fighter.

    PSN: decatus90
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    Updated Ordinator Arcanis statblock:
    Ordinator Arcanis
    Medium Humanoid (incunabulum), Neutral Evil

    AC: 18 (large barrier tattoo)
    HP: 180
    Speed: 30 ft

    STR 10 (+0)  DEX 14 (+2*) CON 14 (+2) INT 20 (+5/+11) WIS 16 (+3/+9)  CHA 20 (+5)

    Skills: Arcana +16, Deception +11, History+16, Insight +9, Intimidation +16
    Damage Resistance: damage from spells, poison
    Damage Immunities: necrotic, psychic
    Condition Immunities: charmed
    Senses: truesight 120 ft, passive Perception 13
    Languages: all

    Special Equipment. Large Barrier Tattoo, Poison Absorbing Tattoo, Spies' Murmur
    Contingency. Dimension door is cast when the Ordinator Arcanis’ hit point total is reduced to 45 hit points or less.
    Innate Spellcasting (Psionics). The Ordinator Arcanis’ innate spellcasting ability is Intelligence (spell save DC 19, +11 to hit with spell attacks). The Ordinator Arcanis can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components:
    At will: detect thoughts, encode thoughts, invisibility, mirror image, misty step, shield
    3/day each: charm person, suggestion, sleep
    1/day each: dominate person, mass suggestion, modify memory
    Magic Resistance. The Ordinator Arcanis has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.
    Spellcasting. The Ordinator Arcanis is an 18th-level spellcaster. Their spellcasting ability is Intelligence (spell save DC 19, +11 to hit with spell attacks). The Ordinator Arcanis has the following wizard spells prepared:
    Cantrips (at will): chill touch, friends, mage hand, message
    1st Level (4 slots): absorb elements, feather fall, magic missile, thunder wave
    2nd Level (3 slots): darkness, mind whip
    3rd Level (3 slots): counterspell, dispel magic, fly
    4th Level (3 slots): black tentacles
    5th Level (3 slots): dominate person, modify memory
    6th Level (1 slot): disintegrate, globe of invulnerability, mass suggestion
    7th Level (1 slot): reverse gravity
    8th Level (1 slot): dark star
    9th Level (1 slot): ravenous void
    Spies' Murmur. If a creature wearing another Spies' Murmur is within 1 mile of the Ordinator Arcanis, they can communicate telepathically with each other. As a bonus action, the Ordinator Arcanis can allow that creature to hear everything they hear for 1 hour. They can end this effect as a bonus action, and it ends if they're incapacitated.
    Shroud of Unknowable Secrets. The Ordinator Arcanis is immune to psychic damage, any effect that would sense their emotions, modify their memories, read their thoughts, divination spells, and the charmed condition. This even foils wish spells and spells or effects of similar power used to affect the target’s mind or to gain information about the target. Any creature that uses an ability that would cause one of the nullified effects takes 6d6 psychic damage.

    Actions
    Withered Hand. +11. Reach 5 ft. 5d6 + 20 force damage. If this damage reduces the target to 0 hit points, it is disintegrated.
    Chill Touch. +11. Range 120 ft. 4d8 necrotic damage, and the target can't regain hit points until the start of the Ordinator Arcanis’ next turn. Until then, the hand clings to the target. If the target is undead, it also has disadvantage on attack rolls against you until the end of the Ordinator Arcanis’ next turn.
    Steal Memory (Recharge 6). The Ordinator Arcanis targets one creature it can see within 60 feet of it. The target takes 6d6 psychic damage, and it must make a DC 19 Intelligence saving throw. On a successful save, the target becomes immune to the Ordinator Arcanis’ Steal Memory for 24 hours. On a failed save, the target loses all proficiencies, it can't cast spells, it can't understand language, and if its Intelligence and Charisma scores are higher than 5, they become 5. Each time the target finishes a long rest, it can repeat the saving throw, ending the effect on itself on a success. A greater restoration or remove curse spell cast on the target ends this effect early.

    Reactions
    Poison Damage Absorption (1/day). When the Ordinator Arcanis takes poison damage, they can use their reaction to gain immunity against that instance of the damage, and they regain a number of hit points equal to half the damage they would have taken.
    Shield. Until the start of the Ordinator Arcanis’ next turn, they have a +5 bonus to AC, including against the triggering attack, and they take no damage from magic missile.

    I replaced the Arcane Grimoire +3 with a Spies' Murmur from Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica. I also decided that the Ordinator Arcanis is an incunabulum, a race detailed in the 4E Underdark book that serves Vecna, ritually bonds with the swaddling cloths of a dead gods' atropal son, and operates from a secret enclave in the Underdark of the Shadowfell. I further decided that the Mind Mage and Thought Spy statblocks from Guildmasters' Guide to Ravnica could be used to represent lesser incunabula subordinates of the Ordinator Arcanis and used those as inspiration to give the Ordinator Arcanis psionics as well.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    yeah he's been convinced it was a bad idea, sometimes he breaks things trying to do something cool but he always comes back around

    like his counterspell rules initially were not met with happiness but they've grown on everyone, it goes as follows:

    Spellcaster casts spell
    Opponent casts counterspell

    Spellcaster rolls 10+spell level+the maximum spell level they can cast
    Opponent rolls 10+level of the counterspell+the maximum spell level they can cast

    this is to give powerful spellcasters an edge over weaker spellcasters, at first we were hesitant but it's worked out fairly well

  • DecatusDecatus Registered User regular
    That one i can see, honestly. If the casters are on level there's parity, which is nice. It does put half and 1/3 casters at a disadvantage, but most of them have other ways to shut down spells they don't like. Does he still allow a Bard's Jack of All Trades to work with Counterspell, in that instance? That could be fun, Bards become the major counter to Lich's and Dragons if so, haha.

    PSN: decatus90
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    yeah bards jack of all trades still works

    sure third casters are at a pretty big disadvantage counterspelling but he still has the counterspell automatically succeed if they're the same level spell, or if counterspell is greater, so a third caster can still always counterspell a regular fireball or whatever

    the rules for the contest are different, but the rules for when there is a contest are the same

    override367 on
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    yeah he's been convinced it was a bad idea, sometimes he breaks things trying to do something cool but he always comes back around

    like his counterspell rules initially were not met with happiness but they've grown on everyone, it goes as follows:

    Spellcaster casts spell
    Opponent casts counterspell

    Spellcaster rolls 10+spell level+the maximum spell level they can cast
    Opponent rolls 10+level of the counterspell+the maximum spell level they can cast

    this is to give powerful spellcasters an edge over weaker spellcasters, at first we were hesitant but it's worked out fairly well

    I really like that house rule.

    The way counterspell seems to be intended to work is that someone declares they're casting a spell and the caster using counterspell has to guess what spell is going to be cast at what level. Xanathar's details that recognizing what spell is being cast requires that it is a spell on your spell list and that you spend a reaction to make a check to try and identify it, which means that to know what you're counterspelling you have to have an allied caster identify it and tell you.

    In practice, I and other players and DMs I've played with just go ahead and say what spell we're casting and what level we're casting it at. It personally seems like a hard habit to break. Shifting the uncertainty from figuring out what spell is even being cast to contested rolls seems easier to successfully implement and more fun.

    Hexmage-PA on
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    yeah he's been convinced it was a bad idea, sometimes he breaks things trying to do something cool but he always comes back around

    like his counterspell rules initially were not met with happiness but they've grown on everyone, it goes as follows:

    Spellcaster casts spell
    Opponent casts counterspell

    Spellcaster rolls 10+spell level+the maximum spell level they can cast
    Opponent rolls 10+level of the counterspell+the maximum spell level they can cast

    this is to give powerful spellcasters an edge over weaker spellcasters, at first we were hesitant but it's worked out fairly well

    I really like that house rule.

    The way counterspell seems to be intended to work is that someone declares they're casting a spell and the caster using counterspell has to guess what spell is going to be cast at what level. Xanathar's details that recognizing what spell is being cast requires that it is a spell on your spell list and that you spend a reaction to make a check to try and identify it, which means that to know what you're counterspelling you have to have an allied caster identify it and tell you.

    In practice, I and other players and DMs I've played with just go ahead and say what spell we're casting and what level we're casting it at. It personally seems like a hard habit to break. Shifting the uncertainty from figuring out what spell is even being cast to contested rolls seems easier to successfully implement and more fun.

    This was the issue, we ended up always debating if someone should know what spell it is so we've just gone "Ah fuck it", and let people know the spell if they have it, or give them general idea about its power level and let them cast, and the homebrew counterspell rule ends up being nice

    in practice this means it usually takes more than one counterspell to stop say, an archmage, from casting something - which is fine! In my SKT game there's 3 counterspellers in the party, so this rule has definitely made it more entertaining for the dm and more nail biting for the players when they fight a strong spellcaster

    override367 on
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    yeah he's been convinced it was a bad idea, sometimes he breaks things trying to do something cool but he always comes back around

    like his counterspell rules initially were not met with happiness but they've grown on everyone, it goes as follows:

    Spellcaster casts spell
    Opponent casts counterspell

    Spellcaster rolls 10+spell level+the maximum spell level they can cast
    Opponent rolls 10+level of the counterspell+the maximum spell level they can cast

    this is to give powerful spellcasters an edge over weaker spellcasters, at first we were hesitant but it's worked out fairly well

    Powerful spellcasters already have a pretty big edge.

    1) Range of counterspell is 60 feet
    2) Counterspell requires you to see the spellcaster and know its casting.
    3) The person counterspelling can always counterspell the counterspell and since they know its a reaction its pretty easy for them to guess what is coming.
    4) There are a few effects that prevent counterspell that are only available to higher level casters.(globe of invulnerability for one)
    5) you already have to make a check to counter a spell that is harder depending on the level of the spell. Its a spellcasting check so the probability is spell level *5%. - Spellcasting mod * 5% + 50%. Spellcasting mod caps out at 11 and takes a while to get there so you're generally at 40% probability of failure (or worse) until you start to be a high level spellcaster too.

    If there was going to be any house rule to counterspell i would probably add "you know the level of the spell that is being cast if you're trained in Arcana but not anything else about the spell"

    wbBv3fj.png
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Goumindong wrote: »
    yeah he's been convinced it was a bad idea, sometimes he breaks things trying to do something cool but he always comes back around

    like his counterspell rules initially were not met with happiness but they've grown on everyone, it goes as follows:

    Spellcaster casts spell
    Opponent casts counterspell

    Spellcaster rolls 10+spell level+the maximum spell level they can cast
    Opponent rolls 10+level of the counterspell+the maximum spell level they can cast

    this is to give powerful spellcasters an edge over weaker spellcasters, at first we were hesitant but it's worked out fairly well

    Powerful spellcasters already have a pretty big edge.

    1) Range of counterspell is 60 feet
    2) Counterspell requires you to see the spellcaster and know its casting.
    3) The person counterspelling can always counterspell the counterspell and since they know its a reaction its pretty easy for them to guess what is coming.
    4) There are a few effects that prevent counterspell that are only available to higher level casters.(globe of invulnerability for one)
    5) you already have to make a check to counter a spell that is harder depending on the level of the spell. Its a spellcasting check so the probability is spell level *5%. - Spellcasting mod * 5% + 50%. Spellcasting mod caps out at 11 and takes a while to get there so you're generally at 40% probability of failure (or worse) until you start to be a high level spellcaster too.

    If there was going to be any house rule to counterspell i would probably add "you know the level of the spell that is being cast if you're trained in Arcana but not anything else about the spell"

    This assumes you're equipping every enemy spellcaster with counterspell and globe of invulnerability and that isn't the case, only 32 creatures across all official sources have counterspell, and most of them are named spellcasters.

    And tbh, I consider a level 8 wizard having a 35% chance to nullify a 9th level spell with a 3rd level spell a bit too good, I was skeptical at first but I've taken to adopting the home rule because in his games it's generally led to more enjoyable boss fights and reduced counterspell's (still considerable!) value, which is fine, because its value before was "MANDATORY"

    This is definitely going to be a subjective opinion on counterspell, I'd still love to see a more intricate system for counterspelling present involving guessing the opposing school and using any targetted spell to try and counter, rather than having a spell called "counterspell", and if you can get the opposed school you get a huge boost, but if its the same school you don't do shit, etc

    override367 on
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Or invisibility
    Or greater invisibility
    or fog cloud
    or Subtle Spell

    Or any spell or effect that prevents or line of sight to the caster or prevents a reaction from occurring.

    You can even ready a spell to cast as soon as you leave cover, leave cover and release the spell and this is not counter-able because the spell is cast while in cover but the energy is not released until you use your reaction to do so.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    I am aware that there is counterplay to counterspell, I just don't tend to run combats like that for most creatures. A team of Scourgers from the Cerberus Assembly? Yeah. A group of devils? Probably not. Any named boss? Probably. A group of hags? Nah. Hobgoblins? I actually try to get Devastators to bait counterspells and release all the held actions of soldiers to fire arrows at the (now incapable of shield) spellcaster (because hobgoblins' strength is cooperation). It depends

    I've just found that I like this, it makes fights against the numerous creatures with one or two high level spells much more tense without me having to take actions with them that feel like... they don't feel natural. Given how rare counterspell is in statblocks, I don't tend to have MOST creatures assume that the party even has it.

    It doesn't feel ... right to do things like have a spellcaster dive around a corner, hold an action, and pop out and fire a spell, it doesn't feel natural, and my players don't do that. My goal isn't to play opponents as strategically as I would play my PC

    override367 on
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Claimed Problem: Powerful Spellcasters don't have ways to deal with counterspell

    Solution: powerful spellcasters already do have a multitude of ways to deal with conuterspell.

    Hags are only powerful casters when they're within range of their coven. And they have counterspell on their coven list(which means all three can counterspell for each other!)

    Devils? Not usually powerful spellcasters but usually those that do can go invisible or cast from outside of 60 feet.

    Like. Your example was that an 8th level caster can stop a 9th level spell 35% of the time. Yea if they're within 60 feet and can see its going on and the thing that has 9th level spells doesn't have other, lower level spells, that would prevent that. And if that happens then your player gets rewarded for taking their risk and having their counterspell ready.

    Goumindong on
    wbBv3fj.png
  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Whipped up my first draft of the Critical Injury table cribbed from Genesys.
    pz1nnj78nkhz.png


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  • valhalla130valhalla130 13 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered User regular
    edited November 2020
    My daughter is going to play a merfolk character tomorrow today, starting at 5th level. She wants her animal companion to be a giant octopus, and I looked thru the PHB, and the giant octopus is too big. The animal companion rules allow for a 1/4 CR creature.

    I can wither give her options for animals, or just allow the giant octopus. I know she can use Tasha's Cauldron to get a Beast of the Sea primal animal, which I assume is like Shadowfax the horse from LotR.

    Honestly, since I'm already including a lot of homebrew races and creatures for my undersea sdventure, and it will just be her, I don't see the problem with her having a giant octopus companion.

    valhalla130 on
    asxcjbppb2eo.jpg
  • GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    Yeah, those rules are just there to stop minmaxers from breaking the game, they don't really apply to kids having fun.

  • valhalla130valhalla130 13 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered User regular
    My kid is 24, but I don't think she's trying to break the game.

    asxcjbppb2eo.jpg
  • Dizzy DDizzy D NetherlandsRegistered User regular
    Half its HP and proficiency bonus and call it a Tiny Giant Octopus.

    Steam/Origin: davydizzy
  • GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    Please, this is D&D, call it Miniature Giant Space Octopus.

  • DenadaDenada Registered User regular
    In a one-on-one game, balance rules are meaningless. There is literally nothing to balance against. Giving her the giant octopus companion will be fine.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    I would go a step further and take the Tasha's rules and make her octopus a Companion with the same level as her, so it gains things like extra attack and second wind, it's a 1-on-1 game and will be easier to balance if she has a chonker of a friend than a regular pet

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Claimed Problem: Powerful Spellcasters don't have ways to deal with counterspell

    Solution: powerful spellcasters already do have a multitude of ways to deal with conuterspell.

    Hags are only powerful casters when they're within range of their coven. And they have counterspell on their coven list(which means all three can counterspell for each other!)

    Devils? Not usually powerful spellcasters but usually those that do can go invisible or cast from outside of 60 feet.

    Like. Your example was that an 8th level caster can stop a 9th level spell 35% of the time. Yea if they're within 60 feet and can see its going on and the thing that has 9th level spells doesn't have other, lower level spells, that would prevent that. And if that happens then your player gets rewarded for taking their risk and having their counterspell ready.

    Yes there are ways to deal with counterspell, but that isn't the point of the homebrew

    it actually makes counterspell better if you upcast it but aren't able to meet the level of the spell, which is something people seem to appreciate

    the point of the homebrew is to make counterspell seem more dynamic by making it a contest of wills between spellcasters, and I've already said I'm not totally satisfied with it

    I can come up with a system to do what I *actually* want to do, which is some kind of spell duel system where counterspell flatly doesn't exist, it's just a thing casters can do as a reaction, and want to try to pick the correct spell to counter the enemy's spell, but my main problem is coming up with something elegant and easy to remember

    I'm currently thinking that countering should get bonuses depending on how far on a "Wheel" of schools of magic, where an opposed school would give the biggest bonus, and allow "partial successes" where the caster can retarget their spell as the magic isn't totally defeated but can't do what it was intending (potentially even breaking normal targeting rules for a given spell), or causing a wild magic surge

    I need to put a lot more thought into this idea before I can give it a skeleton

    override367 on
  • GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    Is counterspelling really that big of a deal? It just feels like a fun "gotcha! I did something cool!" spell for players to use, and a mean one for DMs to use, but this discussion makes it sound like some sort of warfare escalation where getting an NPC's spell countered might as well end the game. Surely there's more happening in a fight than one big dude casting one spell per round.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    It's not that big of a deal, I don't think I've had to deal with a counterspell in a number of sessions, but as I said, in my ideal ruleset there would be mechanics that made it a good deal more common and a good deal more interesting (the concept of wizard duels is awesome, in practice it very much revolves around who's more adept at gaming the mechanics to counterspell better)

    I was just mentioning a homebrew that I liked, I didn't want it to turn into a big argument, I wasn't demanding anyone use it

    as an example, I virtually never actually deploy counterspell against my players, and it's easy to understand why: you don't get a lot of turns and being counterspelled and losing your big once per day spell (no you can't retaliate with your own counterspell if you are the majority of spellcasting classes) can sour an entire game session, and there's no counterplay (unless you as a player assume literally everything you encounter counterspells and do a tree-dance with held action spells). I'd love a ruleset that makes it a more interesting mechanical interaction than it is

    override367 on
  • NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    Counterspell isn’t a problem in the groups I’ve run because the players always forget they have it.

    “Ah fuck I forgot I had counterspell” might as well be a player motto.

  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Norgoth wrote: »
    Counterspell isn’t a problem in the groups I’ve run because the players always forget they have it.

    “Ah fuck I forgot I had counterspell” might as well be a player motto.

    Man I was a wizard in my last campaign and I pissed the DM off a couple times with a well timed counterspell. It was probably my favorite spell!

    Steam ID: Webguy20
    Origin ID: Discgolfer27
    Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
  • NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Norgoth wrote: »
    Counterspell isn’t a problem in the groups I’ve run because the players always forget they have it.

    “Ah fuck I forgot I had counterspell” might as well be a player motto.

    Man I was a wizard in my last campaign and I pissed the DM off a couple times with a well timed counterspell. It was probably my favorite spell!

    In my current campaign the wife is playing a warlock and knows counterspell.

    She literally has no excuse not to have it ready and yet she still forgets!

  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    So I may have to end my current campaign in around five sessions. I designed it as a sandbox with many different factions and locations, and now I'm having a hard time choosing what I want to feature the most in the (most likely) last few sessions and how to make a satisfying ending.

    Here are the ideas I've had so far for my next session, with the last one being the one I'm currently favoring:

    1) The party is hired (or blackmailed) to sneak into the temple/prison/asylum/torture chambers of a group of cultists devoted to Torog, the god of suffering, retrieve a prisoner, and escape with no cultists alive who know they were there.
    2) The party is captured by a duergar ruler who want them to fight his favored son so that the son's worthiness as heir can be proven when he defeats them. However, the favored son's new wife has a coup planned and wants the party to eliminate her husband and his clan.
    3) The party is hired (or coerced) by the mysterious Ordinator Arcanis to eliminate a group of ghouls and cultists.
    4) The party is hired by a relatively peaceful goblin community to wipe-out the hobgoblins in a hidden fortress. When they find the fortress, however, it is already under attack by the Torog cultists and a mysterious monster they believe is an aspect or child of their god (but in reality is the leader of the ghouls).

  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Sociopathic svirfneblin serial slicer snake sycophant statblock:
    Gratzlynn Dallydans
    Small Humanoid (Deep Gnome), Chaotic Evil

    AC: 15 (studded leather)
    HP: 66 (12d6+24)
    Speed: 25 ft

    STR -1 DEX +3/+6 CON +2 INT +2/+5 WIS +2 CHA +3
    (Evasion, Gnome Cunning)

    Skills: Acrobatics +9, Deception +6, Perception +5 , Stealth +9 (Stone Camouflage)
    Damage Resistances: poison
    Senses: Darkvision 120 ft, passive Perception 15
    Languages: Abyssal, Gnomish, Sylvan, Terran, Thieves' Cant, Undercommon
    Challenge: 9 (12 with Haste active)

    Special Equipment. Cap of Disguise, Boots of Haste, +1 Serpentine Shortsword.
    Assassinate. During her first turn, Gratzlynn has advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn't taken a turn. Any hit Gratzlynn scores against a surprised creature is a critical hit.
    Boots of Haste (1/day). Gratzlynn can use a Bonus Action and click the boots' heels together to cast Haste upon herself without requiring concentration.
    Cap of Disguise. While wearing this cap, Gratzlynn can use an action to cast the Disguise Self spell from it at will. The spell ends if the cap is removed.
    Cunning Action. On each of her turns, Gratzlynn can use a bonus action to take the Dash, Disengage, or Hide action.
    Evasion. If Gratzlynn is subjected to an effect that allows her to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, she instead takes no damage if she succeeds on the saving throw, and only half damage if she fails.
    Gnome Cunning. Gratzlynn has advantage on all Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma saving throws against magic.
    Innate Spellcasting. Gratzlynn's innate spellcasting ability is Intelligence (spell save DC 13). She can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components:

    At will: nondetection (self only)
    1/day each: blindness/deafness, blur, darkness, disguise self, misty step, silent image, sleep

    Serpentine Reaction. Gratzlynn can take an extra reaction each round, but this reaction can be used only to make an opportunity attack.
    +1 Serpentine Shortsword. If a creature that does not worship Zehir attunes to this blade it becomes a cursed item. Each time the attuned character draws the sword they are automatically hit by fangs that emerge from the hilt, which have the same effects as the blade itself.
    Sneak Attack (1/Turn). Gratzlynn deals an extra 4d6 damage when she hits a target with a weapon attack and has advantage on the attack roll, or when the target is within 5 feet of an ally of her's that isn't incapacitated and Gratzlynn doesn't have disadvantage on the attack roll.
    Stone Camouflage. Gratzlynn has advantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks made to hide in rocky terrain.

    Actions
    Multiattack. Gratzlynn makes two serpentine shortsword attacks.
    +1 Serpentine Shortsword. +7. 1d6+3 piercing damage, and the target must make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw, taking 7d6 poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
    Poisoned Dart. +6. Range 30/120 feet. 1d4+3 piercing damage, and the target must make a DC 13 Constitution saving throw or be poisoned for 1 hour. If the saving throw fails by 5 or more, the creature is also unconscious while poisoned in this way. The creature wakes up if it takes damage or if another creature takes an action to shake it awake.

    Reactions
    Fade Away (1/Rest). Immediately after Gratzlynn takes damage she can become invisible until the end of her next turn or until she attacks, deals damage, or forces a target to make a saving throw.

    Hexmage-PA on
  • NealnealNealneal Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Man I was a wizard in my last campaign and I pissed the DM off a couple times with a well timed counterspell. It was probably my favorite spell!

    I’m currently playing an anti-magic Lore Bard and holy moly is he fun. Love having Counterspell, Countercharm, Dispel Magic, and a dash of Slow to limit spells coming our way.

    Nealneal on
  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Nealneal wrote: »
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Man I was a wizard in my last campaign and I pissed the DM off a couple times with a well timed counterspell. It was probably my favorite spell!

    I’m currently playing an anti-magic Lore Bard and holy moly is he fun. Love having Counterspell, Countercharm, Dispel Magic, and a dash of Slow to limit spells coming out way.

    Slow is SO GOOD. God I love that spell.

    I need the threads help. In the one off tomorrow I'm starting them out by throwing them right into a Colosseum battle, and the first fight is against a group of drow adventurers. The Colosseum is in Sigil, and I'm playing it tongue in cheek with a Thor Ragnarok Vibe. The Players will be the "Heroes of the Multiverse" and the Drow I'm going to introduce as "The Thunder from Down Under...The __________!" because I have no shame or shred of creativity. I need that blank filled in. What would be a good party name for the drow?

    Steam ID: Webguy20
    Origin ID: Discgolfer27
    Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
  • NealnealNealneal Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Arach-na-Rok.

    Or is that too on the nose?

    EDIT: You could even double up on the terrible and have it be a Vulkoor monarch or something.

    Nealneal on
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