Trump might so far have a smaller body count(which seems questionable) but I can't agree with the idea that he isn't considerably worse than recent Republicans. There is an air about the that last four years that didn't exist during the time of Bush. I worry about the US being destroyed in a year on near constant basis. That it could be enveloped civil war or full on mask of fascism. I've seen people put into camps on American soil and seen nothing be done about it. The people that love him are so brainwashed that they turn his every terrible act or abject failure into a reason to support him. Bush never had that cult of personality.
160,000 Americans are dead specifically because the current president is both too incompetent and too malicious to actually care about governing or caring for other people.
And he actively wants more Americans to die by pushing things to "open back up"
Before this I was pretty firmly in the camp of "he's not the worst president ever" given some of our past leaders (Jackson), but he's very clearly staking out that claim all for himself.
Has it been brought up in this thread that the admin create a full plan for testing and containing COVID and then came to the conclusion it would harm mostly blue states and decided to shelve it?
+3
WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
The guy stanning for Trump is named after a Stephen King arch-multiversal villain. So, I'm sure you can fill in the rest.
If you are confident that Trump won’t win re-election how how much it seemed like he wouldn’t win in 2016 I don’t even know what to say to you.
I don't know why people keep forgetting that Trump was actually elected and that most of America is really really really racist.
But the Electoral College! Popular Vote!
(I mean, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you our electoral system is good, but it didn't come into being in 2016)
I mean, it’s also not the first time that people have been mad about it.
Sure, but people have been in straight up denial for the past four years in a way that is just sad
Ok? The fact that Trump was elected has had a demonstrable effect on people’s live and caused irreparable damage.
Well hey don't worry, once he's out of office everything will be good and go back to normal
No, but things will be better and I won’t be living every day in fear for what horrible shit is going to happen next.
I feel like you are being overly dismissive of the actual harm that Trump causes, and also the real benefits that having him ousted from power would provide.
I'm dismissive of the idea that he is in any way a unique phenomenon
EDIT: Guaranteed that in like... eight years when we elect President Ultra-Hitler, people will be talking about Trump like they're talking about GW now
I think it is exceptionally naive or cynical to view Trump as within normal parameters. He is an actual, literal fascist that brings a whole new level of corruption and disregard for human life.
i don't really know what "literal fascist" means any more. like i'm not sure what definition you could have of fascism that would include trump but exclude bush and reagan, the latter of whom also ran on making america great again
Trump might so far have a smaller body count(which seems questionable) but I can't agree with the idea that he isn't considerably worse than recent Republicans. There is an air about the that last four years that didn't exist during the time of Bush. I worry about the US being destroyed in a year on near constant basis. That it could be enveloped civil war or full on mask of fascism. I've seen people put into camps on American soil and seen nothing be done about it. The people that love him are so brainwashed that they turn his every terrible act or abject failure into a reason to support him. Bush never had that cult of personality.
i very distinctly remember all these exact things happening under bush
I am not saying anybody here is doing this, but there is a very weird phenomenon where cruelty at home is considered worse than cruelty abroad, and I think that myopia is extremely dangerous. Murdering the poor and the marginalized in other countries should be demonized exactly as much as murdering the poor and marginalized in America, and the fact that it just ISN'T is really reeeeeeeeally depressing
I mean we have literal concentration camps on our southern border. Our handling of the pandemic has been one of the worst in the world with *checks notes* 160k dead so far and climbing (which is only counting official reports, the actual death toll is likely higher than that). Who knows how many Kurds were killed as a result of us stabbing them in the back.
We won't know the full extent of this presidency for years to come so it's hard to compare it to atrocities committed by other presidents, but Trump's hands are still ruby red regardless of where he falls in the genocide rankings.
I am not saying anybody here is doing this, but there is a very weird phenomenon where cruelty at home is considered worse than cruelty abroad, and I think that myopia is extremely dangerous. Murdering the poor and the marginalized in other countries should be demonized exactly as much as murdering the poor and marginalized in America, and the fact that it just ISN'T is really reeeeeeeeally depressing
I understand that. How I tend to look at is that the job of the presidency is to protect and preserve American lives. There are lots of ways of doing that, some grotesque others not so, but a president letting Americans die undermines their legitimacy before the public that votes for them. That said, one has to be careful not to let that framing override any sense of humanity because if it does then it can provide the argument for lots of monstrous acts.
Trump is the natural accumulation of the GOP's policies and messaging from the past decades. The difference is that he's actually in office rather than just voting for them.
I am not saying anybody here is doing this, but there is a very weird phenomenon where cruelty at home is considered worse than cruelty abroad, and I think that myopia is extremely dangerous. Murdering the poor and the marginalized in other countries should be demonized exactly as much as murdering the poor and marginalized in America, and the fact that it just ISN'T is really reeeeeeeeally depressing
We care about this shit all over the world. However, we also really don't want the traditional solution, which is colonialism.
I am not saying anybody here is doing this, but there is a very weird phenomenon where cruelty at home is considered worse than cruelty abroad, and I think that myopia is extremely dangerous. Murdering the poor and the marginalized in other countries should be demonized exactly as much as murdering the poor and marginalized in America, and the fact that it just ISN'T is really reeeeeeeeally depressing
Do we have numbers on the collateral damage from American sources in the middle east compared to the past 16 years? Based on everything he has said and done I would expect it to be much much higher.
+1
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I am not saying anybody here is doing this, but there is a very weird phenomenon where cruelty at home is considered worse than cruelty abroad, and I think that myopia is extremely dangerous. Murdering the poor and the marginalized in other countries should be demonized exactly as much as murdering the poor and marginalized in America, and the fact that it just ISN'T is really reeeeeeeeally depressing
I understand that. How I tend to look at is that the job of the presidency is to protect and preserve American lives. There are lots of ways of doing that, some grotesque others not so, but a president letting Americans die undermines their legitimacy before the public that votes for them. That said, one has to be careful not to let that framing override any sense of humanity because if it does then it can provide the argument for lots of monstrous acts.
I think it is a natural consequence of the human mind that we are more affected by the things that effect people we know personally.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I am not saying anybody here is doing this, but there is a very weird phenomenon where cruelty at home is considered worse than cruelty abroad, and I think that myopia is extremely dangerous. Murdering the poor and the marginalized in other countries should be demonized exactly as much as murdering the poor and marginalized in America, and the fact that it just ISN'T is really reeeeeeeeally depressing
I am not saying anybody here is doing this, but there is a very weird phenomenon where cruelty at home is considered worse than cruelty abroad, and I think that myopia is extremely dangerous. Murdering the poor and the marginalized in other countries should be demonized exactly as much as murdering the poor and marginalized in America, and the fact that it just ISN'T is really reeeeeeeeally depressing
Oh hell yes! I think there will be a lot of people who would be outraged if they actually knew about the assassination of Fred Hampton, and the suppression of the Panthers more generally.
Black against Empire should be a schoolbook text, imo
I am not saying anybody here is doing this, but there is a very weird phenomenon where cruelty at home is considered worse than cruelty abroad, and I think that myopia is extremely dangerous. Murdering the poor and the marginalized in other countries should be demonized exactly as much as murdering the poor and marginalized in America, and the fact that it just ISN'T is really reeeeeeeeally depressing
I am not saying anybody here is doing this, but there is a very weird phenomenon where cruelty at home is considered worse than cruelty abroad, and I think that myopia is extremely dangerous. Murdering the poor and the marginalized in other countries should be demonized exactly as much as murdering the poor and marginalized in America, and the fact that it just ISN'T is really reeeeeeeeally depressing
I am not saying anybody here is doing this, but there is a very weird phenomenon where cruelty at home is considered worse than cruelty abroad, and I think that myopia is extremely dangerous. Murdering the poor and the marginalized in other countries should be demonized exactly as much as murdering the poor and marginalized in America, and the fact that it just ISN'T is really reeeeeeeeally depressing
I am not saying anybody here is doing this, but there is a very weird phenomenon where cruelty at home is considered worse than cruelty abroad, and I think that myopia is extremely dangerous. Murdering the poor and the marginalized in other countries should be demonized exactly as much as murdering the poor and marginalized in America, and the fact that it just ISN'T is really reeeeeeeeally depressing
So I made a comment about the "job" of the presidency and I think that job would apply to any democratic country regardless of whether you'd call it imperial or not
I’m pretty desperate and more than a little naive, so I’d even settle for some of the authors like Warren or Sanders stumping for Biden’s platform on his behalf, but that hasn’t happened either!
I am not saying anybody here is doing this, but there is a very weird phenomenon where cruelty at home is considered worse than cruelty abroad, and I think that myopia is extremely dangerous. Murdering the poor and the marginalized in other countries should be demonized exactly as much as murdering the poor and marginalized in America, and the fact that it just ISN'T is really reeeeeeeeally depressing
It's not that weird a phenomenon.
It's just Empire.
Not everything is imperialism
You got anything in mind when you say this?
It's a nice story to tell ourselves, that X reason is why something bad happens. There was something different about the 1930s Germans that led to the rise of the Nazis. The Nazis were different in some way, etc. The scarier truth is that there isn't really anything special, it's just people being people. This is why I always look at claims that it's just X ideology or Y socio-political structure that is the root of all evil in these types of discussions with a healthy dose of skepticisim. It deflects responsibility and oversimplifies things so the person espousing these ideas has a handy target for their ire.
From my observations, people can very easily pretend something isn't happen or that it isn't real in their minds/hearts if they aren't actually seeing or experiencing it first hand. In this case, because many people identify as American, they treat domestic issues and failures as a bigger deal than international or humanitarian issues. Its more related to in-groups that the individual identifies with and out-groups that are just a vague "others". Empires can often have strong identities that people follow, but it doesn't have to be an empire that is a core reason why this type of behaviour happens. It's something that needs each person to constantly watch for in themselves and question their behaviour and beliefs to guard against.
Or it could be something different. Either way the important thing in my mind is to constantly be on guard for othering others. Try to understand them and why they think/behave that way and then ake decisions based on that understanding.
LBJ is weird in that he passed really tremendous domestic policies while simultaneously fucking up tremendously on foreign policy
Fuckin' wild swings in that presidency
I'm reasonably sure he was more racist than Trump, too. Just in an incredibly weird and somehow less malicious way ("less malicious" only valid toward black Americans, all others get bombed)
I think you lost the thread for a minute. Your response to lanz doesn't really work because lanz wasn't talking to you but was reframing pooro.
No, he's right on point. Pretty much anyone is going to care more when Bob down the street gets blown the fuck up vs Bob from 10,000 miles away gets blown the fuck up. It's not an empire thing. The difference is degree, and how far you can push "down the street" to mean.
LBJ is weird in that he passed really tremendous domestic policies while simultaneously fucking up tremendously on foreign policy
Fuckin' wild swings in that presidency
I'm reasonably sure he was more racist than Trump, too. Just in an incredibly weird and somehow less malicious way ("less malicious" only valid toward black Americans, all others get bombed)
I think you lost the thread for a minute. Your response to lanz doesn't really work because lanz wasn't talking to you but was reframing pooro.
No, he's right on point. Pretty much anyone is going to care more when Bob down the street gets blown the fuck up vs Bob from 10,000 miles away gets blown the fuck up. It's not an empire thing. The difference is degree, and how far you can push "down the street" to mean.
I have no idea what to make of LBJ, if I'm being completely honest.
It's like the "at least the trains ran on time" quote about Mussolini or whatever, except instead of trains it's the Civil Rights Act and other landmark domestic policy.
We've betrayed our allies, destroyed relationships in place since the Revolutionary War, and ruined any kind of trust in us because in any given four years we can easily go batshit insane.
Our own troops are hunted for cash prizes put in place by Russia, China is slowly putting the rest of the world in a chokehold through having its fingers in all the pies we took ours out of, and we've actively worked to fracture the hope for global environmental change to the point where I'm not sure if there's going to be a future or if we've hit endgame for the human race regardless of what we try because it'll be too little too late.
I cannot call Trump anything but the worst president in all of history
+10
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
We've betrayed our allies, destroyed relationships in place since the Revolutionary War, and ruined any kind of trust in us because in any given four years we can easily go batshit insane.
Our own troops are hunted for cash prizes put in place by Russia, China is slowly putting the rest of the world in a chokehold through having its fingers in all the pies we took ours out of, and we've actively worked to fracture the hope for global environmental change to the point where I'm not sure if there's going to be a future or if we've hit endgame for the human race regardless of what we try because it'll be too little too late.
I cannot call Trump anything but the worst president in all of history
He doesn't own slaves that we know of.
psn: PhasenWeeple
+1
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I'm sitting here looking at how Trump has regarded my people and head tilting at anyone who is suggesting that Trump hasn't been "as bad" as other presidents or some shit.
The correct answer is all presidents have been bad.
We've betrayed our allies, destroyed relationships in place since the Revolutionary War, and ruined any kind of trust in us because in any given four years we can easily go batshit insane.
Our own troops are hunted for cash prizes put in place by Russia, China is slowly putting the rest of the world in a chokehold through having its fingers in all the pies we took ours out of, and we've actively worked to fracture the hope for global environmental change to the point where I'm not sure if there's going to be a future or if we've hit endgame for the human race regardless of what we try because it'll be too little too late.
I cannot call Trump anything but the worst president in all of history
He's not even the worst president in my lifetime. If he gets a second term maybe, but Bush did all that shit too. He fucked up the response to Katrina. Lied to start the war in Iraq, put the economy into a recession.
We've betrayed our allies, destroyed relationships in place since the Revolutionary War, and ruined any kind of trust in us because in any given four years we can easily go batshit insane.
Our own troops are hunted for cash prizes put in place by Russia, China is slowly putting the rest of the world in a chokehold through having its fingers in all the pies we took ours out of, and we've actively worked to fracture the hope for global environmental change to the point where I'm not sure if there's going to be a future or if we've hit endgame for the human race regardless of what we try because it'll be too little too late.
I cannot call Trump anything but the worst president in all of history
He doesn't own slaves that we know of.
There was an investigative story developing during the summer of 2016 about how his beauty pageants were basically just underage sex slavery rings but that shit got buried really, really hard come September of that year. There was a lot of Epstein involvement, too, from what I remember.
It's possible that wasn't true, but the rate it got shoved under the rug was pretty startling.
Posts
And he actively wants more Americans to die by pushing things to "open back up"
Before this I was pretty firmly in the camp of "he's not the worst president ever" given some of our past leaders (Jackson), but he's very clearly staking out that claim all for himself.
i don't really know what "literal fascist" means any more. like i'm not sure what definition you could have of fascism that would include trump but exclude bush and reagan, the latter of whom also ran on making america great again
i very distinctly remember all these exact things happening under bush
We won't know the full extent of this presidency for years to come so it's hard to compare it to atrocities committed by other presidents, but Trump's hands are still ruby red regardless of where he falls in the genocide rankings.
I understand that. How I tend to look at is that the job of the presidency is to protect and preserve American lives. There are lots of ways of doing that, some grotesque others not so, but a president letting Americans die undermines their legitimacy before the public that votes for them. That said, one has to be careful not to let that framing override any sense of humanity because if it does then it can provide the argument for lots of monstrous acts.
Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
We care about this shit all over the world. However, we also really don't want the traditional solution, which is colonialism.
Do we have numbers on the collateral damage from American sources in the middle east compared to the past 16 years? Based on everything he has said and done I would expect it to be much much higher.
I think it is a natural consequence of the human mind that we are more affected by the things that effect people we know personally.
holy shit does this look timely
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
right time for a story about the fbi murdering a social leader
Tumblr | Twitter PSN: misterdapper Av by Satellite_09
It's not that weird a phenomenon.
It's just Empire.
Not everything is imperialism
Black against Empire should be a schoolbook text, imo
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
bit.ly/2XQM1ke
It kind of is in an empire
You got anything in mind when you say this?
counterpoint: everything is imperialism
nuh uh you
Noam Chomsky and Bernie Sanders did an add that started earlier this week on youtube about how Yeah Biden is meh but you could do worse
Yall think sniping at each other over Semantics is a good and effective use of your finite emotional energy and time?
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
bit.ly/2XQM1ke
It's a nice story to tell ourselves, that X reason is why something bad happens. There was something different about the 1930s Germans that led to the rise of the Nazis. The Nazis were different in some way, etc. The scarier truth is that there isn't really anything special, it's just people being people. This is why I always look at claims that it's just X ideology or Y socio-political structure that is the root of all evil in these types of discussions with a healthy dose of skepticisim. It deflects responsibility and oversimplifies things so the person espousing these ideas has a handy target for their ire.
From my observations, people can very easily pretend something isn't happen or that it isn't real in their minds/hearts if they aren't actually seeing or experiencing it first hand. In this case, because many people identify as American, they treat domestic issues and failures as a bigger deal than international or humanitarian issues. Its more related to in-groups that the individual identifies with and out-groups that are just a vague "others". Empires can often have strong identities that people follow, but it doesn't have to be an empire that is a core reason why this type of behaviour happens. It's something that needs each person to constantly watch for in themselves and question their behaviour and beliefs to guard against.
Or it could be something different. Either way the important thing in my mind is to constantly be on guard for othering others. Try to understand them and why they think/behave that way and then ake decisions based on that understanding.
I'm reasonably sure he was more racist than Trump, too. Just in an incredibly weird and somehow less malicious way ("less malicious" only valid toward black Americans, all others get bombed)
No, he's right on point. Pretty much anyone is going to care more when Bob down the street gets blown the fuck up vs Bob from 10,000 miles away gets blown the fuck up. It's not an empire thing. The difference is degree, and how far you can push "down the street" to mean.
Maybe you have finite energy and time
Ya ain't seeing the forest for the trees Mac.
It's like the "at least the trains ran on time" quote about Mussolini or whatever, except instead of trains it's the Civil Rights Act and other landmark domestic policy.
Our own troops are hunted for cash prizes put in place by Russia, China is slowly putting the rest of the world in a chokehold through having its fingers in all the pies we took ours out of, and we've actively worked to fracture the hope for global environmental change to the point where I'm not sure if there's going to be a future or if we've hit endgame for the human race regardless of what we try because it'll be too little too late.
I cannot call Trump anything but the worst president in all of history
Can’t even post on this forum without ascending to godhead and transcending the limitations of physical form.
That's actually what the avatar "bug" that's going around is.
You must shed your chosen form and become The Void, only then may you truly post.
He doesn't own slaves that we know of.
The correct answer is all presidents have been bad.
Hi I'm Henroid I have a problem with authority.
He's not even the worst president in my lifetime. If he gets a second term maybe, but Bush did all that shit too. He fucked up the response to Katrina. Lied to start the war in Iraq, put the economy into a recession.
{Twitter, Everybody's doing it. }{Writing and Story Blog}
There was an investigative story developing during the summer of 2016 about how his beauty pageants were basically just underage sex slavery rings but that shit got buried really, really hard come September of that year. There was a lot of Epstein involvement, too, from what I remember.
It's possible that wasn't true, but the rate it got shoved under the rug was pretty startling.