The General [Coronavirus] Discussion Thread is WAY worse than the flu

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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited September 16
    Corvus wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    America still has the advantage of being the broadest high quality educational system under one roof. China still needs more infrastructure and Europe is as good as it's going to get with its multinational limitations.

    Oh sure, you guys have lots of universities and will remain economically powerful. But that's different than being respected, or seen as an international authority.

    And well, as for the US education system, I think the results of that system are telling in the nature of US politics and public discourse.

    People being educated doesn't mean they stop being people, though. American discourse is fucked because multiple media sources have developed in ways to exploit human behavior in order to further their own ends. Also, Americans largely don't go finish college, like 35% of Americans have college degrees. American education is actually really good, I think it's a mistake to pin America's problem to the educated populace being poorly educated instead of a combination of exceptionalistic myths and a variety of clever puppetmasters running media.

    The education system doesn't start at college.

    And Texas is doing its level best to completely fuck the nationwide curriculum for primary and secondary levels, especially in the social sciences.

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  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Corvus wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    America still has the advantage of being the broadest high quality educational system under one roof. China still needs more infrastructure and Europe is as good as it's going to get with its multinational limitations.

    Oh sure, you guys have lots of universities and will remain economically powerful. But that's different than being respected, or seen as an international authority.

    And well, as for the US education system, I think the results of that system are telling in the nature of US politics and public discourse.

    People being educated doesn't mean they stop being people, though. American discourse is fucked because multiple media sources have developed in ways to exploit human behavior in order to further their own ends. Also, Americans largely don't go finish college, like 35% of Americans have college degrees. American education is actually really good, I think it's a mistake to pin America's problem to the educated populace being poorly educated instead of a combination of exceptionalistic myths and a variety of clever puppetmasters running media.

    The education system doesn't start at college.

    And Texas is doing its level best to completely fuck the nationwide curriculum for primary and secondary levels, especially in the social sciences.

    I wish there was a competing publishing house for grade school social studies books.

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  • GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    Shouldn't this be less of an issue without physical publishing costs for different editions? Not that it'd be a good thing for Texas to have the redacted version of a text, but there's less reason than before to not have an unredacted version available.

  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    Is there even such thing as a virus that achieved some form of livable equilibrium in a population without large scale deaths?

    I’m thinking of smallpox and other such diseases we lived with for centuries that took a vaccine to eradicate. Smallpox wrecked havoc for thousands of years, killing millions and just being something societies had to just deal with. Even worse when it entered the Americas where the people didn’t have thousands of years of immune system adaption to the virus and it just burned through them.

    I’m gonna look at anyone side-eyed that says we should wait for natural herd immunity, cause even if it’s “technically possible,” the amount of dead to get there will be staggering. That’s not a plan, it’s a social suicide pact.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    off topic, maybe, but:
    why does anyone even bother anymore with the "time off to focus on health and family" excuse, which is so blatantly and universally known as code for "got fired"?

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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    off topic, maybe, but:
    why does anyone even bother anymore with the "time off to focus on health and family" excuse, which is so blatantly and universally known as code for "got fired"?

    In his case, it actually seemed like he was having a full on psychotic break / nervous breakdown.

    I mean yeah he's probably fired, but the last few things he did publicly were more Kanye-esque 'someone please help that man and get him to a professional' sort of things not just being a dick who is getting shitcanned.

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  • LikeaBoshLikeaBosh Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    off topic, maybe, but:
    why does anyone even bother anymore with the "time off to focus on health and family" excuse, which is so blatantly and universally known as code for "got fired"?

    In his case, it actually seemed like he was having a full on psychotic break / nervous breakdown.

    I mean yeah he's probably fired, but the last few things he did publicly were more Kanye-esque 'someone please help that man and get him to a professional' sort of things not just being a dick who is getting shitcanned.

    I see where you're coming from, but with Kanye everyone was disturbed by his public breakdown, and I didn't see people agreeing with anything he said. But a significant amount of Trump voters saw what this guy said and agreed with it/saw it as proof that Qanon is real.

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  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    LikeaBosh wrote: »
    zagdrob wrote: »
    off topic, maybe, but:
    why does anyone even bother anymore with the "time off to focus on health and family" excuse, which is so blatantly and universally known as code for "got fired"?

    In his case, it actually seemed like he was having a full on psychotic break / nervous breakdown.

    I mean yeah he's probably fired, but the last few things he did publicly were more Kanye-esque 'someone please help that man and get him to a professional' sort of things not just being a dick who is getting shitcanned.

    I see where you're coming from, but with Kanye everyone was disturbed by his public breakdown, and I didn't see people agreeing with anything he said. But a significant amount of Trump voters saw what this guy said and agreed with it/saw it as proof that Qanon is real.

    That certainly wouldn't get him fired, though.

    Dude's last interview he complained about how long the shadows are in his hotel room, all alone in Washington DC before warning people to stock up on bullets for the coming civil war. He is clearly unwell. I've been asking for years how so many members of the GOP seem to avoid a family intervention because Grandpa Isn't Doing So Good Anymore. I'm guessing this particular dude actually got one.

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  • notyanotya Registered User regular
    LikeaBosh wrote: »
    zagdrob wrote: »
    off topic, maybe, but:
    why does anyone even bother anymore with the "time off to focus on health and family" excuse, which is so blatantly and universally known as code for "got fired"?

    In his case, it actually seemed like he was having a full on psychotic break / nervous breakdown.

    I mean yeah he's probably fired, but the last few things he did publicly were more Kanye-esque 'someone please help that man and get him to a professional' sort of things not just being a dick who is getting shitcanned.

    I see where you're coming from, but with Kanye everyone was disturbed by his public breakdown, and I didn't see people agreeing with anything he said. But a significant amount of Trump voters saw what this guy said and agreed with it/saw it as proof that Qanon is real.

    He's probably one of the people reading Qanon message boards and thinking it's real.

    Anyways, it's nice he won't be working there anymore.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    Trump is talking about covid again.

    Reporters:
    Trump contradicts CDC Director Redfield, who told Congress today vaccine wouldn’t be distributed to broader public until mid-2021:

    “I think he made a mistake when he said that. It’s just incorrect information.”
    Trump: “I think there’s a lot of problems with masks.” He again cites restaurant servers who touch their masks. (There’s overwhelming consensus that masks are effective and critical.) He adds, “The mask, perhaps, helps.”
    Trump says if you "take the blue states out" US Covid deaths would be at a very low level.
    Trump is pretty close to explicitly saying deaths in blue states don't matter and it is ok if people die in them.

    Couscous on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Corvus wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    America still has the advantage of being the broadest high quality educational system under one roof. China still needs more infrastructure and Europe is as good as it's going to get with its multinational limitations.

    Oh sure, you guys have lots of universities and will remain economically powerful. But that's different than being respected, or seen as an international authority.

    And well, as for the US education system, I think the results of that system are telling in the nature of US politics and public discourse.

    People being educated doesn't mean they stop being people, though. American discourse is fucked because multiple media sources have developed in ways to exploit human behavior in order to further their own ends. Also, Americans largely don't go finish college, like 35% of Americans have college degrees. American education is actually really good, I think it's a mistake to pin America's problem to the educated populace being poorly educated instead of a combination of exceptionalistic myths and a variety of clever puppetmasters running media.

    The education system doesn't start at college.

    In the US educational attainment tracks with political affiliation and it's only getting stronger, with a huge inflection point at the high school/university divide. In some ways, the effects of education absolutely start at the university level.

  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    America still has the advantage of being the broadest high quality educational system under one roof. China still needs more infrastructure and Europe is as good as it's going to get with its multinational limitations.

    Oh sure, you guys have lots of universities and will remain economically powerful. But that's different than being respected, or seen as an international authority.

    And well, as for the US education system, I think the results of that system are telling in the nature of US politics and public discourse.

    People being educated doesn't mean they stop being people, though. American discourse is fucked because multiple media sources have developed in ways to exploit human behavior in order to further their own ends. Also, Americans largely don't go finish college, like 35% of Americans have college degrees. American education is actually really good, I think it's a mistake to pin America's problem to the educated populace being poorly educated instead of a combination of exceptionalistic myths and a variety of clever puppetmasters running media.

    The education system doesn't start at college.

    In the US educational attainment tracks with political affiliation and it's only getting stronger, with a huge inflection point at the high school/university divide. In some ways, the effects of education absolutely start at the university level.

    That in itself is an example of the failure of the US educational system at a pre-college level.

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular

    Jared Carrabis is a baseball reporter with a video from ABC.

    Bonus points to the lady bringing up "I can't breathe" because she was told to wear a mask.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Corvus wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    America still has the advantage of being the broadest high quality educational system under one roof. China still needs more infrastructure and Europe is as good as it's going to get with its multinational limitations.

    Oh sure, you guys have lots of universities and will remain economically powerful. But that's different than being respected, or seen as an international authority.

    And well, as for the US education system, I think the results of that system are telling in the nature of US politics and public discourse.

    People being educated doesn't mean they stop being people, though. American discourse is fucked because multiple media sources have developed in ways to exploit human behavior in order to further their own ends. Also, Americans largely don't go finish college, like 35% of Americans have college degrees. American education is actually really good, I think it's a mistake to pin America's problem to the educated populace being poorly educated instead of a combination of exceptionalistic myths and a variety of clever puppetmasters running media.

    The education system doesn't start at college.

    In the US educational attainment tracks with political affiliation and it's only getting stronger, with a huge inflection point at the high school/university divide. In some ways, the effects of education absolutely start at the university level.

    That in itself is an example of the failure of the US educational system at a pre-college level.

    It's not a US specific phenomenon. The US just has a more pronounced version of it. And a lot of the really hard swing is because Trump is just, in general, incredibly distasteful to educated voters.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    Paladin wrote: »
    America still has the advantage of being the broadest high quality educational system under one roof. China still needs more infrastructure and Europe is as good as it's going to get with its multinational limitations.

    Oh sure, you guys have lots of universities and will remain economically powerful. But that's different than being respected, or seen as an international authority.

    And well, as for the US education system, I think the results of that system are telling in the nature of US politics and public discourse.

    People being educated doesn't mean they stop being people, though. American discourse is fucked because multiple media sources have developed in ways to exploit human behavior in order to further their own ends. Also, Americans largely don't go finish college, like 35% of Americans have college degrees. American education is actually really good, I think it's a mistake to pin America's problem to the educated populace being poorly educated instead of a combination of exceptionalistic myths and a variety of clever puppetmasters running media.

    The education system doesn't start at college.

    In the US educational attainment tracks with political affiliation and it's only getting stronger, with a huge inflection point at the high school/university divide. In some ways, the effects of education absolutely start at the university level.

    I think it's not really the Rarified effect of Higher Learning, and more the result of your roommate being an African-American atheist liberal who is much smarter than you and a really nice guy, thus blowing apart instantly every piece of bullshit your community taught you.

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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    The point is that if you've got a huge bunch of institutions with a top international reputation, and they all report to one authority, you've got capability to be The Authority, a role nobody else who doesn't have these resources really wants. The strength of the educational system as a whole is, for at least 1 generation, circumstantial to the topic

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    Couscous wrote: »
    BJAQe6a.png?1

    Mass polio vaccination had begun in the USA in 1955 and it took the vaccine to stop polio outbreaks from coming and going over the years.

    You do understand that that plot shows how we had functional herd immunity to the virus before 1910 due to terrible hygeine practices leading to kids getting infected before they were 2 right? Its a plot of changing human behavior eventually corrected by a vaccine. Polio didn't change in 1910, human hygeine and sewage systems did.

    Thats not to say it wasn't a trade worth making, as the plot of numbers of typhoid and diarrheal illness deaths over the same time would show, but in terms of polio that graph shows how attempts to avoid polio infection led to greater and greater severity of the disease until it was addressed by a vaccine.

    Edit - From Wikipedia on the history of polio


    Prior to the 20th century, polio infections were rarely seen in infants before 6 months of age, and most cases occurred in children 6 months to 4 years of age.[20] Young children who contract polio generally suffer only mild symptoms, but as a result they become permanently immune to the disease.[21] In developed countries during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, improvements were being made in community sanitation, including improved sewage disposal and clean water supplies. Better hygiene meant that infants and young children had fewer opportunities to encounter and develop immunity to polio.

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  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    That woman comparing masks to George Floyd, yeah that about sums it up...


    Meanwhile while my grandmother is currently on a slow recovery from an eye operation what does my aunt think is a smart plan? Get everyone in the family in from out of state to throw her a surprise birthday party! Everyone in the family in the same house! Yes! Good!

    I'm over here with everything in me telling me this is a really bad idea; usually I just put up with their nonsense because it's still quicker than dealing with their childish fallout later, but I'm just going to put my foot down this time and stay home and deal with their shit.

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Maddow is reporting that Clyburns Coronavirus Committee is making public the actual state by state instructions from the White House and how two/three weeks ago they were recommending state wide mask mandates, using North Dakota and Nebraska as examples because they’ve gotten so much worse with their infection rates in that time, but now as recently as the 6th the new state specific instructions are to drop all mask requirements even though conditions have gotten so much worse.

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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    That woman comparing masks to George Floyd, yeah that about sums it up...


    Meanwhile while my grandmother is currently on a slow recovery from an eye operation what does my aunt think is a smart plan? Get everyone in the family in from out of state to throw her a surprise birthday party! Everyone in the family in the same house! Yes! Good!

    I'm over here with everything in me telling me this is a really bad idea; usually I just put up with their nonsense because it's still quicker than dealing with their childish fallout later, but I'm just going to put my foot down this time and stay home and deal with their shit.

    Man, my family just dodged a bullet on that where my 85yo grandma maybe (but not tested because cranky old) infected my family when we did our distanced visit over Labor Day

    Yeah a risk but our kid only has so many chances to see great grandma and twice in 6 months seems worth the risk.

    Shouldn't have. Long story but we gambled and got lucky but could have infected us and my whole family for a similar 'safe' risk.

    Wait for the vaccine. Not worth the stress and risk of waiting for the test to result out.

    JaysonFour
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    That woman comparing masks to George Floyd, yeah that about sums it up...


    Meanwhile while my grandmother is currently on a slow recovery from an eye operation what does my aunt think is a smart plan? Get everyone in the family in from out of state to throw her a surprise birthday party! Everyone in the family in the same house! Yes! Good!

    I'm over here with everything in me telling me this is a really bad idea; usually I just put up with their nonsense because it's still quicker than dealing with their childish fallout later, but I'm just going to put my foot down this time and stay home and deal with their shit.

    Man, my family just dodged a bullet on that where my 85yo grandma maybe (but not tested because cranky old) infected my family when we did our distanced visit over Labor Day

    Yeah a risk but our kid only has so many chances to see great grandma and twice in 6 months seems worth the risk.

    Shouldn't have. Long story but we gambled and got lucky but could have infected us and my whole family for a similar 'safe' risk.

    Wait for the vaccine. Not worth the stress and risk of waiting for the test to result out.

    Just do social distancing properly. Stay at 6 foot distance at least, outside and both of you wear your masks the whole time. If you want to take them off, back up to 12 feet. You dont need to never see your grandmother. You just need to see her using proper precautions. If you do all the above, the chance of infection is minimal.

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  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Shouldn't have. Long story but we gambled and got lucky but could have infected us and my whole family for a similar 'safe' risk.

    I told my great-aunt(who isn't going either) that even if nothing actually happens it still doesn't change the fact that it's a bad idea. I'm just not going to roll that dice.

    My other aunt is confirmed going there from Florida. She's a health care worker. She should know better. But no, she's also a MAGA hatter so even though she has to wear PPE on the job that training goes out the fucking window off the job.

    Elldren
  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    That woman comparing masks to George Floyd, yeah that about sums it up...


    Meanwhile while my grandmother is currently on a slow recovery from an eye operation what does my aunt think is a smart plan? Get everyone in the family in from out of state to throw her a surprise birthday party! Everyone in the family in the same house! Yes! Good!

    I'm over here with everything in me telling me this is a really bad idea; usually I just put up with their nonsense because it's still quicker than dealing with their childish fallout later, but I'm just going to put my foot down this time and stay home and deal with their shit.

    Man, my family just dodged a bullet on that where my 85yo grandma maybe (but not tested because cranky old) infected my family when we did our distanced visit over Labor Day

    Yeah a risk but our kid only has so many chances to see great grandma and twice in 6 months seems worth the risk.

    Shouldn't have. Long story but we gambled and got lucky but could have infected us and my whole family for a similar 'safe' risk.

    Wait for the vaccine. Not worth the stress and risk of waiting for the test to result out.

    Just do social distancing properly. Stay at 6 foot distance at least, outside and both of you wear your masks the whole time. If you want to take them off, back up to 12 feet. You dont need to never see your grandmother. You just need to see her using proper precautions. If you do all the above, the chance of infection is minimal.

    Right, its minimal. We are aware and took literally all reasonable precautions. My wife is an honest to god qualified expert when it comes to infection and contamination who almost went to work for the CDC fifteen years ago.

    You relax. Then you are passing each other, and all sitting down but still a ways apart. And let me get through there or having to run in and use the bathroom.

    Roll the dice enough and its risking a critical failure.

    If grandma had COVID (might have! Who knows because jm sure she didnt get tested and not my battle) she could have infected all of us and eventally the entire staff at our local Target.

    We got careless and lucky. Relaxing is stupid because it adds risk.

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  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    It's tough with older relatives. Both of my parents have thankfully been very safe, but my mother keeps saying, in increasingly stronger ways, that she's going to come visit me this fall. And I have to keep telling her, increasingly more bluntly, that she shouldn't plan on it happening. She had breast cancer, my father had heart surgery, and the city I live in is still at nearly 400 new infections a day. Even if she's willing to take the risk, I am not. I'm not even sure what we'd do? Sit in the house for a week and not go anywhere?

    Dark_Side on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Not a Fictional Character Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    It's tough with older relatives. Both of my parents have thankfully been very safe, but my mother keeps saying, in increasingly stronger ways, that she's going to come visit me this fall. And I have to keep telling her, increasingly more bluntly, that she shouldn't plan on it happening. She had breast cancer, my father had heart surgery, and the city I live in is still at nearly 400 new infections a day. Even if she's willing to take the risk, I am not. I'm not even sure what we'd do? Sit in the house for a week and not go anywhere?

    My dad is constantly saying he'll drive up from California to Washington to pick me up if I want.

    Just... no. That would be him driving for 64 hours total, taking four trips through an infected country, just so I can... sit in the house because it's super hot there (and now on fire but..).

    I could drive there myself, except that requires me driving for 32 hours, through infected country, just to sit in a house.

    Dark_SideSmrtnik
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    That woman comparing masks to George Floyd, yeah that about sums it up...


    Meanwhile while my grandmother is currently on a slow recovery from an eye operation what does my aunt think is a smart plan? Get everyone in the family in from out of state to throw her a surprise birthday party! Everyone in the family in the same house! Yes! Good!

    I'm over here with everything in me telling me this is a really bad idea; usually I just put up with their nonsense because it's still quicker than dealing with their childish fallout later, but I'm just going to put my foot down this time and stay home and deal with their shit.

    Man, my family just dodged a bullet on that where my 85yo grandma maybe (but not tested because cranky old) infected my family when we did our distanced visit over Labor Day

    Yeah a risk but our kid only has so many chances to see great grandma and twice in 6 months seems worth the risk.

    Shouldn't have. Long story but we gambled and got lucky but could have infected us and my whole family for a similar 'safe' risk.

    Wait for the vaccine. Not worth the stress and risk of waiting for the test to result out.

    Just do social distancing properly. Stay at 6 foot distance at least, outside and both of you wear your masks the whole time. If you want to take them off, back up to 12 feet. You dont need to never see your grandmother. You just need to see her using proper precautions. If you do all the above, the chance of infection is minimal.

    Right, its minimal. We are aware and took literally all reasonable precautions. My wife is an honest to god qualified expert when it comes to infection and contamination who almost went to work for the CDC fifteen years ago.

    You relax. Then you are passing each other, and all sitting down but still a ways apart. And let me get through there or having to run in and use the bathroom.

    Roll the dice enough and its risking a critical failure.

    If grandma had COVID (might have! Who knows because jm sure she didnt get tested and not my battle) she could have infected all of us and eventally the entire staff at our local Target.

    We got careless and lucky. Relaxing is stupid because it adds risk.


    Everyone else in my family aside from the aforementioned great-aunt are lock-step MAGA hats(like, subscriber status to Bill O's podcast level conservatives). Even before factoring there will at minimum be six people in the same house from at least three different states, there is near-zero chance any of this is done much less done properly.

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Just noted that on Worldometer, the US exceeded 200,000 deaths on Tuesday.

    Seeming more and more likely that a quarter million will die, in part due to massive incompetence by the current Administration, by Election Day.

    47 days, ~800 a day, on the 7 day rolling average. And that's before schools start causing further spikes.

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  • notyanotya Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Just noted that on Worldometer, the US exceeded 200,000 deaths on Tuesday.

    Seeming more and more likely that a quarter million will die, in part due to massive incompetence by the current Administration, by Election Day.

    47 days, ~800 a day, on the 7 day rolling average. And that's before schools start causing further spikes.

    We've been dropping daily cases and hospitalizations pretty nicely though the last couple months. I hope the trend continues. Obviously yes, schools are gonna be a factor though. I think they'll end up closing a lot of them up again in a month...

    CelestialBadger
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    notya wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    Just noted that on Worldometer, the US exceeded 200,000 deaths on Tuesday.

    Seeming more and more likely that a quarter million will die, in part due to massive incompetence by the current Administration, by Election Day.

    47 days, ~800 a day, on the 7 day rolling average. And that's before schools start causing further spikes.

    We've been dropping daily cases and hospitalizations pretty nicely though the last couple months. I hope the trend continues. Obviously yes, schools are gonna be a factor though. I think they'll end up closing a lot of them up again in a month...

    if you can trust that data.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    notya wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    Just noted that on Worldometer, the US exceeded 200,000 deaths on Tuesday.

    Seeming more and more likely that a quarter million will die, in part due to massive incompetence by the current Administration, by Election Day.

    47 days, ~800 a day, on the 7 day rolling average. And that's before schools start causing further spikes.

    We've been dropping daily cases and hospitalizations pretty nicely though the last couple months. I hope the trend continues. Obviously yes, schools are gonna be a factor though. I think they'll end up closing a lot of them up again in a month...

    Daily cases have been dropping, but deaths mostly haven't. Last sustained period below 800 daily was two months ago (ending July 17th).

    And I'm hoping the schools close. The situation just doesn't warrant them opening in the first place. But if schools nationally close down in a month, it's hard to not see that as a massive rebuke against the President with regards the federal handling of the pandemic, a month out from the election. So I'm not sure he, his Administration, or the bootlick Governors and rabble rousing mobs are going to let that happen. Don't know exactly how they'll try to stop it, but I feel confident in assuming it'll be massively stupid, probably illegal, and in more than a few cases, where the mobs get egged on by the Twitter shitter in Chief, quite violent.

    I hope I'm wrong. I really do.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    StarZapper wrote: »
    StarZapper wrote: »
    Pretty sure the bubonic plague hit herd immunity, but it's not a great example to be using.

    Did it? AFAIK you don't become immune to bubonic plague, it's just treatable with antibiotics. Like there wasn't herd immunity in Europe...there just wasn't a "herd" because everyone fucking died.

    Well, some people have genetic resistance to the disease. Basically it killed off everyone who didn't have certain genetics, so it's a bit different than a viral immunity.

    No. The plagues ended when we started controlling rodent populations and then again was reduced with anti-biotics. You can still get plague today even though we know how to treat it(and its still deadly). No one is immune from it

    I say "plagues" because "the plague" was not a distinct set of plague that happened once and then ended. There were multiple distinct plagues as a result of this particular bacterium.

    The last plague was in 1994

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  • evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    Is there even such thing as a virus that achieved some form of livable equilibrium in a population without large scale deaths?

    I’m thinking of smallpox and other such diseases we lived with for centuries that took a vaccine to eradicate. Smallpox wrecked havoc for thousands of years, killing millions and just being something societies had to just deal with. Even worse when it entered the Americas where the people didn’t have thousands of years of immune system adaption to the virus and it just burned through them.

    I’m gonna look at anyone side-eyed that says we should wait for natural herd immunity, cause even if it’s “technically possible,” the amount of dead to get there will be staggering. That’s not a plan, it’s a social suicide pact.

    Maybe chickenpox and other "childhood diseases"? Since it's much less dangerous to kids, once it's established in a population, everyone gets it as a kid, then doesn't get the more dangerous version as an adult. (Then gets shingles once they're elderly. Get your vaccine. We have one now.) Chickenpox can be deadly if introduced into a virgin population, but is much more survivable once established. (Though, yes, it does still kill kids.)

    (Also, the people in the Americas didn't have a measurably worse immune system, they just had everyone in a village get sick at the same time, which in a pre-industrial society will kill everyone dead, even if the disease isn't otherwise lethal.)


    Anyway, the real problem with herd immunity is that the vaccine will probably be out in within six months. The massive death toll, plus all the people that will get long-term issues are not a good trade-off for months of a re-opened economy. (Even if we could keep the hospitals up and running while attempting herd immunity.) If there wasn't a vaccine on the horizon, then I might at least run the numbers, but it just feels like impatience more than anything.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    If everyone gets it and it remains dormant in your body until it maybe comes out again then we're probably not herd immune to it.

    Edit: Also there is a vaccine now

    Goumindong on
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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    5% of the long-term care residents in the state of georgia have died of COVID-19.

    Kemp: "That's not enough! Open them up for visits immediately!"

    Executive order to force them open, including to indoor visits. I can't understand why all these GOP governors are so eager to open up the nursing homes and infect everyone.

    Maybe it's a good thing that I can't comprehend the mindset of death cultists. But I am back to waiting to hear which of my relatives will be the first to die.

  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    Is there even such thing as a virus that achieved some form of livable equilibrium in a population without large scale deaths?

    The array of rhinoviruses behind the common cold spring immediately to mind.

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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Is there even such thing as a virus that achieved some form of livable equilibrium in a population without large scale deaths?

    The array of rhinoviruses behind the common cold spring immediately to mind.

    The majority of coronaviruses as well. Also enteric viruses in well developed countries. Viruses that cause warts and other skin conditions. Most sexually transmitted diseases, HPV being one.

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  • GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    Mayabird wrote: »
    5% of the long-term care residents in the state of georgia have died of COVID-19.

    Kemp: "That's not enough! Open them up for visits immediately!"

    Executive order to force them open, including to indoor visits. I can't understand why all these GOP governors are so eager to open up the nursing homes and infect everyone.

    Maybe it's a good thing that I can't comprehend the mindset of death cultists. But I am back to waiting to hear which of my relatives will be the first to die.

    In the spring maybe I could've understood it as a "rip off the bandaid" type of thinking, but now there's no calculus that makes sense other than if they genuinely believe it is a hoax and want everything to feel normal.

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  • VishNubVishNub Registered User regular
    I have to imagine there are a whole host of of human viruses that don't really do anything, so no one knows about them or at least no one studies them.

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  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    edited September 17
    VishNub wrote: »
    I have to imagine there are a whole host of of human viruses that don't really do anything, so no one knows about them or at least no one studies them.

    Viruses and us go way back.

    Like, so far back that your genome is five to eight times as full of viral DNA as it is actual genes.

    Shivahn on
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  • PiotyrPiotyr Registered User regular
    This makes me extremely sad and angry:


    The USPS had a plan to send 5 reusable facemasks to every household in early April. Even had a press release ready.

    The White House blocked the plan.

    “There was concern...that households receiving masks might create concern or panic." https://washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/09/17/usps-trump-coronavirus-amazon-foia/

    Two weeks after the near nationwide lockdown began, the USPS had a plan in place to send masks to every household, which was both a smart and fantastic idea, but the White House blocked it because it wasn't enough that they ignored the problem, they had to try to make everyone ignore the problem.

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