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Rocksteady's [Suicide Squad] and WB Montreal's [Gotham Knights]

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  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    edited November 2023
    He still seems gun heavy. i imagine combat is so heavily based around upgraded weapons that it's too late to have him ripping stuff apart with his bare hands. Of course they also have Captain Boomerang being a specialist in sniper rifles and shotguns... instead of boomerangs.

    Also the more I look at the city the more it looks like they actually were working on a Superman game that was canned for co-op live service.

    AlphaRomero on
  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Did they manage to include King Shark doing any sharking, or is he still yet another dude with a gun?

    Yea the game/gameplay seems like it is just completely unrelated to the characters they are using.

  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    I mean, the Avengers game was garbage, but at least you got to use everyone's signature moves/weapons. Imagine if you played as Hulk, but instead of smashing, he shot people with a handgun.

    Then again collecting new guns is much less silly than collecting new ribcages for Hulk (which was absolutely a thing Avengers made you do).

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  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I'm a little surprised that this thread hasn't popped back up yet.

    Rocksteady published a 19 minute Story and Gameplay video yesterday for SS: KtJL.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM7Y9YGEunU

    They claim to be doing a whole series of these. And from this first video, it sounds like they're pretty committed to the February 2024 release date. So I guess this is what we're gonna get...

    Spoilers for some of my thoughts after having watched it.
    -- Everybody criticized the mobility powers of the characters back when they dropped the infamous bad demo from earlier in the year. Well, in this new video they showcase snippets from the scene that provides the in-game justification for why these characters have the mobility powers that they do. In my opinion, it doesn't help. It feels like a thinly veiled contrivance to allow Harley to sky-grapple, and Captain Boomerang to bamf about like Nightcrawler. And it still doesn't work. It still feels wrong in my opinion.

    -- The dialog is atrocious. Nearly every spoken line in the trailer is absolutely terrible. Rocksteady has gone full Marvel with the quips and one-liner conversations. But the problem is, 100% of the spoken lines are quips or one-liners, or both. It doesn't feel natural to have characters speaking like this all the time. They're supposed to be having conversations, but it feels like each and every line that they deliver is constructed to be a tag line in a trailer.

    -- Something looks really "off" about Harley's face when she's wearing her prison garb. Her cheeks are puffed out and she looks like an adult Cabbage Patch Kid or something in all of the scenes where she's shown wearing that outfit. Her classic Harley outfit doesn't have the same problem. Her cheeks aren't puffed out or baby-like when she's wearing the red and black jester costume.

    -- Combat still does not look engaging to me. It's just a bunch of hovering around and spamming attacks, without much nuance or variety. It all looks very samey. And just like in my point above about the contrived mobility powers, shoe-horning guns onto Captain Boomerang, and giving King Shark a minigun feels wrong. They are not playing to the established versions of these characters at all, and just doing whatever they can to force this game to be a looter shooter. The problem is, 3 out of 4 of the characters they picked for this game are not really compatible with looter shooter. Not without feeling forced and contrived, exactly as they have done here. It feels wrong.

    This is sadness, and feels through and through like it's 8 years too late, from the bad humor to the gameplay. And it's funny, I'm playing Arkham Knights right now since it's on gamepass, kinda meh on it and how it chops the fuck out of Batman stories/characters to fit the game on a whim, but I do like how they did Harley in that game. Here, it's just like "I remember the movies." And just everything about SS just seems like another Arkham Knights, this time we might get it right, maybe, possibly?

    Also, are they going to explain Deadshot being black now when he's white in the Arkham world, or is this a Thunderbolts/Mach-2 situation?

  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    So Suicide Squad will have an offline mode for people who want to experience the story and hear Kevin Conroy’s last go as Batman - at some point after release.

    https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/rocksteady-plans-offline-mode-for-i-suicide-squad-i-post-release

    It got delayed in the face of all the criticism and they didn’t even manage this? The Avengers had single-player at launch, fer chrissake. (It absolutely sucked, but still.)

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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I'm pretty sure Avengers was "always online" even if you were playing solo. They were selling premium currency and costume packs and emotes and stuff. They have to keep the game always online to ensure the integrity of their in-game MTX shop. As soon as they allow offline mode, that opens the door for hackers and mods to get all that stuff for free.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I also vaguely recall that that stuff was apparently not great at release.

  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    As someone who enjoyed the hell out of AVENGERS, their multiplayer backend was top tier trash. I rarely got a match and when you did you really should have just expected to get DC'd at some point.

    . . .still not really having SS on my radar, but I'll try it out if it is at least decent. Hard to feel sorry for RS/WB though - like, the blowback is all on you guys (well more WB then RS I bet): no one asked for a GaaS as the follow-up to the Arkham trilogy or as the gameplay surrounding that excellent first CGI trailer. Legit, these smaller companies that can't take these "dud" hits, really need to start reading the room.

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    I am definitely not playing the game, but my wife and son were watching Suicide Squad 2 last night and it was actually pretty funny. I wouldn't have paid money to see it, but it got quite a few laughs out of me. If it wasn't coming from such a big studio i would swear they had the game already made, or close to it, and just decided to reskin it as the squad.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Based on interviews, Rocksteady folks really, REALLY don't want to call Suicide Squad a live service game.

    https://www.ign.com/articles/suicide-squad-kill-the-justice-league-dev-really-doesnt-want-to-call-it-a-live-service

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  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Based on interviews, Rocksteady folks really, REALLY don't want to call Suicide Squad a live service game.

    https://www.ign.com/articles/suicide-squad-kill-the-justice-league-dev-really-doesnt-want-to-call-it-a-live-service

    Probably shouldn't have made one, then.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    WB is really trying to make Suicide Squad a mainstream property, the likes of the Avengers and the JLA. And it's just not that. It never has been. It is a niche product.

    I'm not saying there is zero market for it, because clearly there are people who enjoy it, and people who have bought the comics and such. But it just doesn't have the mass appeal that WB at the top corporate level are trying to shoehorn it into. They tried once with David Ayer's SS, and produced the worst version of Joker of all time, and a movie that was entirely forgettable, despite having an A-List roster of actors. Then James Gunn took a crack at it after being fired from Marvel for Tweets he made from like 10 years ago, and his movie was a bit more entertaining, just because of the spectacle of it. But it still wasn't great.

    And now we've got Rocksteady trying to make a mainstream co-op looter shooter and that's not going to work either. For several reasons. But keeping in theme with the rest of this post, one of the main reasons this is going to fail is because there's just not that widespread mass appeal for this license.

    That's the foundational problem before we even consider the other problems, such as live service, greedy MTX, poor character designs, poor combat designs, and cringy dialog.

  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    Previews are dropping and I honestly cannot remember the last time such a big game got such negative previews.

    The IGN one is kinda shocking. It's just a few sentences away from saying "this game sucks"

  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    0cfy4ly9gack.png

    This is the Elden Ring UI meme made real
    pC8L2zGh.png

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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Oof. Yeah if that's the UI, that's pretty terrible.

  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    edited January 9
    It is.

    I just took this screenshot myself

    5t5baggh.png

    I especially love the "(While looking at the weak point)" message

    SyphonBlue on
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  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    edited January 9
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7lR4AqMCes

    Yea, when IGN calls out how terrible your game is in a preview...then someone messed up somewhere.

    Watching the video...it is shocking how bad this game looks. I would love a post mortem look at the development of this game in a year.

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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    In the other IGN article, about how the devs are trying to claim that this isn't a live service, some of the quotes are a bit baffling.

    They're in full on damage control and image protection right now, a month before the release of the game. Which isn't good. Some of the stuff the devs said reeks of desperation and saying absolutely anything to deflect just how bad this game is going to be.
    "We knew we wanted to make a four-player co-op game, so we spent a lot of time iterating on our characters."

    If by "iterating" he means homogenizing and stripping them of all of their iconic identity to shoehorn them into a generic looter-shooter, then yeah. That's what they did.
    "We don't really think of our game as fitting with any particular label,"

    "Please dear god, do not compare us to Anthem or Marvel's Avengers or Destiny. We totally aren't the same as them. Don't put a label on us."

  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    Yea, I noticed they are avoiding the word live service like the plague.

    The game looks like a more boring Avengers...and that is saying something. At least in Avengers each character felt like the character they were supposed to be and you didn't have Kamala Kahn running around with a shotgun shooting purple weak spots.

    There you go Avengers, you won at something! :trollface:

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Jesus. I was expecting something that evened out to "meh," but downright bad?

    With all the attention this is getting, this could really choke off the live services trend.

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  • jdarksunjdarksun Struggler VARegistered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Jesus. I was expecting something that evened out to "meh," but downright bad?

    With all the attention this is getting, this could really choke off the live services trend.
    I mean. That's like saying one predatory gatcha mobile game being released to scathingly negative reviews would choke off the predatory gatcha mobile game trend. I think that only has as chance of happening if SSKtJL is one in a trend of financial failures of live service games. (which i guess remains to be seen)

  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Jesus. I was expecting something that evened out to "meh," but downright bad?

    With all the attention this is getting, this could really choke off the live services trend.
    I mean. That's like saying one predatory gatcha mobile game being released to scathingly negative reviews would choke off the predatory gatcha mobile game trend. I think that only has as chance of happening if SSKtJL is one in a trend of financial failures of live service games. (which i guess remains to be seen)

    I mean, that's exactly what's currently happening. It's why Sony has cancelled nearly all of their live service games they were so proud to announce earlier last year. And why EA has shut down a bunch of theirs. Sega cancelled Hyenas right before it was supposed to be released. Live Service games are currently in free-fall, and this may just be the final straw.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Jesus. I was expecting something that evened out to "meh," but downright bad?

    With all the attention this is getting, this could really choke off the live services trend.
    I mean. That's like saying one predatory gatcha mobile game being released to scathingly negative reviews would choke off the predatory gatcha mobile game trend. I think that only has as chance of happening if SSKtJL is one in a trend of financial failures of live service games. (which i guess remains to be seen)

    There's been less high-profile live service games being introduced, Sony's backing off their dumbass plan to flood the market with them, Halo Infinite's been a mess, Destiny 2 is struggling a bit, etc. I think the trend's already here.

    That's before factoring in that Suicide Squad has gotten a HUGE amount of attention from the industry as a whole, doubly so after the last-minute long delay. Honestly I don't think there's an upcoming live service game that's gotten nearly a quarter of the attention Suicide Squad has. How it performs could have big, big effects.

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  • McRhynoMcRhyno Registered User regular
    This piece of shit needs to fail, and fail hard, so executive cretins get it through their skull people don't want this.

    PSN: ImRyanBurgundy
  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    I think the gameplay looks kinda fun in a crackdown/Sunset Overdrive way.

    I wonder what the reception would have been had it been an original IP?

    A lot of the backlash is it being the next game set in the Arkham world, seemingly a continuation of it, and it not feeling like it.

  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    edited January 9
    Kyougu wrote: »
    I think the gameplay looks kinda fun in a crackdown/Sunset Overdrive way.

    I wonder what the reception would have been had it been an original IP?

    A lot of the backlash is it being the next game set in the Arkham world, seemingly a continuation of it, and it not feeling like it.

    I think the reception would have been WORSE. It just looks like a bog standard GaaS shooter, and with the way those are going right now yet another shitty one would not have improved its luck.

    They could have made this game interesting. Instead of they just gave everyone a gun.

    Why is Shark not a heavy brawler? Instead he has guns.

    Why does Boomerang not throw boomerangs? Instead he has guns.

    None of this looks interesting in any way. At least Avengers everyone had a power set that matched their super powers. Imagine if that game just gave Captain America and Ms. Marvel a gun instead.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Kyougu wrote: »
    I think the gameplay looks kinda fun in a crackdown/Sunset Overdrive way.

    I wonder what the reception would have been had it been an original IP?

    A lot of the backlash is it being the next game set in the Arkham world, seemingly a continuation of it, and it not feeling like it.

    You really should watch the IGN video. The fact that it's Suicide Squad set in the Arkham world is probably his favorite part.

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  • AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    I can't believe anyone thought this shit was a good idea at any point.

    I also really really really have to ask: What did they do for most of the eight years they were making this?

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    I can't believe anyone thought this shit was a good idea at any point.

    I also really really really have to ask: What did they do for most of the eight years they were making this?

    Thought up more icons for the UI

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    I can't believe anyone thought this shit was a good idea at any point.

    I also really really really have to ask: What did they do for most of the eight years they were making this?

    Learned how to make an online game. Totally different skill set from what they were doing before.

  • AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited January 9
    Aegeri wrote: »
    I can't believe anyone thought this shit was a good idea at any point.

    I also really really really have to ask: What did they do for most of the eight years they were making this?

    Learned how to make an online game. Totally different skill set from what they were doing before.

    I hate to tell you this, but it's not their first foray into multiplayer.

    Aegeri on
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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    I can't believe anyone thought this shit was a good idea at any point.

    I also really really really have to ask: What did they do for most of the eight years they were making this?

    Learned how to make an online game. Totally different skill set from what they were doing before.

    I hate to tell you this, but it's not their first foray into multiplayer.

    I very much doubt "online multiplayer vs mode for a Ps2 or Xbox game" shares very much at all with "modern, always online co-op live service game". Also, it's game dev, probably zero of the people involved with that title are still there.

  • AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    I can't believe anyone thought this shit was a good idea at any point.

    I also really really really have to ask: What did they do for most of the eight years they were making this?

    Learned how to make an online game. Totally different skill set from what they were doing before.

    I hate to tell you this, but it's not their first foray into multiplayer.

    I very much doubt "online multiplayer vs mode for a Ps2 or Xbox game" shares very much at all with "modern, always online co-op live service game". Also, it's game dev, probably zero of the people involved with that title are still there.

    From all indications, a lot of the people on the original Arkham games aren't there either, including the cofounders :p

    Not to mention they hired a lot of people who were involved with live service games etc, but the point still stands it's not their first actual multiplayer game. I'm pretty sure they also helped with the multiplayer mode in Arkham Origins as well, which was really quite a novel and interesting idea at the time. It at least had something going for it.

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  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    reVerse wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Based on interviews, Rocksteady folks really, REALLY don't want to call Suicide Squad a live service game.

    https://www.ign.com/articles/suicide-squad-kill-the-justice-league-dev-really-doesnt-want-to-call-it-a-live-service

    Probably shouldn't have made one, then.
    And Arkane didn't want to make Redfall. The developers aren't the ones calling the shots here, which is going to be evident as you can't even polish a turd like this if your heart isn't even a little into it

    YL9WnCY.png
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited January 9
    Like imagine being Rocksteady, free of the Batman license and able to go in any direction, and your corporate overlords shackle you to another DC property except it's a shallow, cynical attempt at recurring revenue.

    You'd be hard-pressed to finding even the faintest glimmer of passion in such a project.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited January 9
    Sterica wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Based on interviews, Rocksteady folks really, REALLY don't want to call Suicide Squad a live service game.

    https://www.ign.com/articles/suicide-squad-kill-the-justice-league-dev-really-doesnt-want-to-call-it-a-live-service

    Probably shouldn't have made one, then.
    And Arkane didn't want to make Redfall. The developers aren't the ones calling the shots here, which is going to be evident as you can't even polish a turd like this if your heart isn't even a little into it

    Also the IGN footage spoils what seem to be some significant plot points. If I was to be polite about it, I would call it "15 year old edgelord writing" and that's about as positive a term I can give it. I do agree with the IGN guy too:
    No way they let this games plot stand without finding a way to Uno-Reverse it by the end, in particular the "Putting a bomb in a child poison ivy's head" thing.
    Sterica wrote: »
    Like imagine being Rocksteady, free of the Batman license and able to go in any direction, and your corporate overlords shackle you to another DC property except it's a shallow, cynical attempt at recurring revenue.

    You'd be hard-pressed to finding even the faintest glimmer of passion in such a project.

    I seriously can't wait for the post-mortem.

    Aegeri on
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  • McRhynoMcRhyno Registered User regular
    Rocksteady is/was a flash in the pan studio.

    To their credit in Arkham Asylum, they got creative and turned limitations into strengths by honing in on the combat and stealth gameplay in a sequential structured way.

    After that, they always found a way to shoot themselves in the dick.

    I hate arkham city. It's not a section of a city, it's a half-assed horseshoe, a major portion of which is underwater. I was excited for the mystery of what Hugo Strange is up to. NOPE MOAR JOKER.

    Arkham Knight. WHO LIKES TANKS WHAT WHAT... no one likes tanks... *single tear*

    Like... they're fuck-ups. Plain and simple.

    I like Arkham Origins more than City. I am that crazy person.

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  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    City was good if laughably forced, although I can get if you got Joker fatigue during the whole trilogy.

    Knight was better for the open world design, but I'd argue they didn't need it. And they definitely didn't need the Turbo Batmobile, which felt like chasing trends.

    But I can't say Knight was bad because we got Mark Hamill serenading Kevin Conroy.

    YL9WnCY.png
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    I thought City was better than Asylum. Asylum is more focused, but the combat, puzzles, and boss fights were way better in City.

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  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    Yeah I liked City. Didn't much care for Knight but that was mainly cause of the Batmobile and all the decisions made to accommodate it.

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