I think the most compelling parts of Wonder Woman are when she's just a normal person going around regular society trying to make a difference, without being a superhero. That's probably why the final act left so many people with a sour taste.
I think a bigger problem is the movie has no idea how to resolve it's core idea. Like it's really interesting what they set up. Diana's view of humanity vs the actual brutality, of WWI especially. But then it just kinda doesn't know where to go from here.
So it goes with generic ending where it's all the badguys fault and then there are lasers because they have no compelling way to resolve this conflict either through story action or just action action. So we get special effects, which are dull.
Funnily enough, the first movie I can think of with this exact same issue is Age of Ultron.
+4
Options
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited September 2020
One Night in Bangkok is the type of movie that had to be filmed in Thailand not to stretch the budget, like Extraction, but because it had no budget. There’s a good story idea here with it being good guy Collateral and the way it actually shows a man efficiently killing a list of people is good, but it can’t last one hundred minutes and the more the movie goes on the greater it’s shoestring budget appears.
The Chairman is trying here and really trying to carry the weight of the movie, and he's good in his role as vengeful dad, even if they make him 66 years old which is weird when the dude is 56. It’s when it tries to show off the acting of the young Uber driver or the kewl hip detective (with his exposition wife talking to him via airpod and scenes that look to be filmed on high frame rate digital camera like you see in Asian TV shows and soaps) that more cracks start to appear. Plus, for a Friday night in Bangkok it sure is lacking in people everywhere, and the lack of gun sounds where everything is movie silenced makes it feel more like they didn’t want to cause a fuss with the public or possibly skirt film permits in places. There’s a point where Dacascos goes to kill a dude in a strip club that is given a name different to what is outside the actual club, and they either poorly covered up the name in CGI or removed the exterior letters but the halo of where they were still existed and it drew your eye to the discrepancy even more.
There comes a point where not having the money to tell the story hinders the story you wind up telling, and this is a good example of that. I'd say it'd be fine as a streaming movie, but even then it fizzles out after an hour. It's a slow burn that just never kindles into something bigger like a korean noir movie does. Always nice to see tunnel vision vengeance, you just need more skrilla to make that vengeance pop, yo. 3.5/10 UwUs. The movie also lost a point for not including the "what's the capital of Thailand?" joke.
I think the most compelling parts of Wonder Woman are when she's just a normal person going around regular society trying to make a difference, without being a superhero. That's probably why the final act left so many people with a sour taste.
The feeling I got from the character is that for her, being a good person in the little ways and badass super heroics are both equally important and valuable. I really like that.
I have seen literally none of the DC films since and including the Brandon Routh one. If memory serves, I fell asleep in Superman Returns.
I mean, I think everyone would agree that DC reached their pinnacle with the Richard Pryor Superman - Superman III. They were never going to top that one. Well, maybe The Quest for Penis was slightly better, but I don't remember anything about it.
It doesn't even feel like a DCEU film, and I say that in a very positive way.
Probably the worst criticism I could level at it is that the family stuff is a bit much, but it's a pretty dang subjective criticism and I, personally, rather enjoyed that aspect anyway.
They should bring back the Adam West style of Batman, all these modern grimbrood darkscowl ones are boring.
Lego Batman is probably the closest we'll get. It would be really hard to do a 60's camp Batman movie that didn't come off as just nonstop tongue-in-cheek references to 60's camp Batman.
Dropping the Adam West Batman into the present Bat-movie-universe though and playing it as a straight fish-out-of-water/Quantum Leap style though...
+32
Options
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
I think the most compelling parts of Wonder Woman are when she's just a normal person going around regular society trying to make a difference, without being a superhero. That's probably why the final act left so many people with a sour taste.
I think a bigger problem is the movie has no idea how to resolve it's core idea. Like it's really interesting what they set up. Diana's view of humanity vs the actual brutality, of WWI especially. But then it just kinda doesn't know where to go from here.
So it goes with generic ending where it's all the badguys fault and then there are lasers because they have no compelling way to resolve this conflict either through story action or just action action. So we get special effects, which are dull.
Funnily enough, the first movie I can think of with this exact same issue is Age of Ultron.
The swerve that the real Ares was just a politician was brilliant. Turning him into an actual Comic Villain, not so much.
The only alternate Epic Finale I can think of would be something like Wing Commander IV's where it's just one giant debate, but uh, probably wouldn't work outside of the interactive format. :P
Shazam is a lot of fun and Levi is fantastic in it.
The big issues imo are that the villain is just really uninteresting, which always puts a damper on these kind of films and sucks the life out of the climax. They just don't do enough with him to make him compelling as a character or as an obstacle for our hero.
Also it's got this really weird thing where it's got like 5 different points where shit just got real. Like, there's a moment in most movies of that style where the hero finally decides they are all in. The "What's up danger" moment if you would, to reference a great example of this style of story. Shazam has like, fucking half a dozen of these. And each individually works pretty well but by like the 3rd time it happens it really loses all impact and muddles the hell out of the build up and release of the final confrontation.
Anyway, I look forward to seeing the next one. Hopefully they can sand the rough edges off.
I love how Harley Quinn’s Batman is totally the Batman of TAS but he’s not in on the joke
+8
Options
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Given that it was World War 1 we're talking about, it would have been much better if Wonder Woman either A: Did not find ares at all or B: Found Ares, but he's getting drunk at a bar in very much a "I don't cause wars, I go to where wars are"
WW1 was very much caused by a tragedy of errors and excusing that with divine providence kinda mucks things up a bit.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
+22
Options
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
I gathered that he didn't cause WW1 per se, just contributed to make it much worse(mustard gas and so on).
They should bring back the Adam West style of Batman, all these modern grimbrood darkscowl ones are boring.
Just watch Batman: Brave and the Bold. It's definitely more in that fun style of Batman. Also a strong contender for best Batman show, up there with TAS and Beyond.
The secret to Nolan's films that Snyder and co. totally missed out on is that they're not actually grimdark or cynical. They have muted color palettes and a fairly grounded approach by the standards of the genre, but the core themes are optimistic and humanistic. WB took the wrong lessons from their success, so you get gross stuff like Batman slaughtering henchmen with machine guns.
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
The secret to Nolan's films that Snyder and co. totally missed out on is that they're not actually grimdark or cynical. They have muted color palettes and a fairly grounded approach by the standards of the genre, but the core themes are optimistic and humanistic. WB took the wrong lessons from their success, so you get gross stuff like Batman slaughtering henchmen with machine guns.
Snyder wasn't trying to recreate Nolan's vision. Snyder just has a shitty dark vision of people. It's in everything he does.
The secret to Nolan's films that Snyder and co. totally missed out on is that they're not actually grimdark or cynical. They have muted color palettes and a fairly grounded approach by the standards of the genre, but the core themes are optimistic and humanistic. WB took the wrong lessons from their success, so you get gross stuff like Batman slaughtering henchmen with machine guns.
Nolan is also not trying to be violent or nasty either. His Batman trilogy is geeking the fuck out over the property, but just in a specific way where he wants to drag it towards a less cartoony more grounded aesthetic. Batman is not that violent in those films.
Snyder just really wants to see some violent shit go down imo.
I’d rather Batman go back to semi-goofy ultra-gothic cartoonery. I still like the two Keaton films the best. I did not like Nolan’s films and I’m getting the impression I won’t like the post-Nolan films, either.
Shit sorry I did see Shazam. I forgot that was DC. I guess I accidentally lied.
Also...and please don’t run me out of town...I didn’t really like it
I was surprised because I loved Chuck.
I'm shocked. I never watched chuck, but just felt the movie was joyful all around and fun. Plus I enjoyed the chuck dude as the lead. Thought he was the perfect big kid ala tom hanks in Big.
Thomas Vinterberg, a man of two very notable hits (The Celebration and The Hunt) and a slew of other films that never quite broke out, might have a middlebrow pleaser with this one. Or maybe not because of 2020 and all, but I think it's worth seeing and having your own feelings about. I don't think it's a particularly well written film, as it has trouble measuring so many of its facets (tone and construction especially), but maybe that's appropriate given its a film about the instability of drinking. The selling point is definitely Mads Mikkelsen. The rest of the cast is strong, but this film is clearly built around him and his talents. Be sure to check it if you're a fan.
Thomas Vinterberg, a man of two very notable hits (The Celebration and The Hunt) and a slew of other films that never quite broke out, might have a middlebrow pleaser with this one. Or maybe not because of 2020 and all, but I think it's worth seeing and having your own feelings about. I don't think it's a particularly well written film, as it has trouble measuring so many of its facets (tone and construction especially), but maybe that's appropriate given its a film about the instability of drinking. The selling point is definitely Mads Mikkelsen. The rest of the cast is strong, but this film is clearly built around him and his talents. Be sure to check it if you're a fan.
Would you say it's clearly weaker than those other two films?
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Thomas Vinterberg, a man of two very notable hits (The Celebration and The Hunt) and a slew of other films that never quite broke out, might have a middlebrow pleaser with this one. Or maybe not because of 2020 and all, but I think it's worth seeing and having your own feelings about. I don't think it's a particularly well written film, as it has trouble measuring so many of its facets (tone and construction especially), but maybe that's appropriate given its a film about the instability of drinking. The selling point is definitely Mads Mikkelsen. The rest of the cast is strong, but this film is clearly built around him and his talents. Be sure to check it if you're a fan.
Would you say it's clearly weaker than those other two films?
Yes, though I'm not crazy about The Hunt personally.
The secret to Nolan's films that Snyder and co. totally missed out on is that they're not actually grimdark or cynical. They have muted color palettes and a fairly grounded approach by the standards of the genre, but the core themes are optimistic and humanistic. WB took the wrong lessons from their success, so you get gross stuff like Batman slaughtering henchmen with machine guns.
Nolan is also not trying to be violent or nasty either. His Batman trilogy is geeking the fuck out over the property, but just in a specific way where he wants to drag it towards a less cartoony more grounded aesthetic. Batman is not that violent in those films.
Snyder just really wants to see some violent shit go down imo.
They even go out of their way to illustrate that Batman isn't violent. The beginning of TDK has the fake Batmen running around with shotguns and Batman is like, wtf, I don't use guns you assholes, gtfo.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I have heard that Snyder is an Objectivist and if so it shines through in all his movies. He supposed to have tried to get Atlas Shrugged made for years(then a bunch of no talent hacks beat him to it).
It is probably why his DC movies suck.
Superheroes are the epitome of selfless sacrifice, while Objectivists are... Not.
Kipling217 on
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
The secret to Nolan's films that Snyder and co. totally missed out on is that they're not actually grimdark or cynical. They have muted color palettes and a fairly grounded approach by the standards of the genre, but the core themes are optimistic and humanistic. WB took the wrong lessons from their success, so you get gross stuff like Batman slaughtering henchmen with machine guns.
Nolan is also not trying to be violent or nasty either. His Batman trilogy is geeking the fuck out over the property, but just in a specific way where he wants to drag it towards a less cartoony more grounded aesthetic. Batman is not that violent in those films.
Snyder just really wants to see some violent shit go down imo.
They even go out of their way to illustrate that Batman isn't violent. The beginning of TDK has the fake Batmen running around with shotguns and Batman is like, wtf, I don't use guns you assholes, gtfo.
I have heard that Snyder is an Objectivist and if so it shines through in all his movies. He supposed to have tried to get Atlas Shrugged made for years(then a bunch of no talent hacks beat him to it).
It is probably why his DC movies suck.
Superheroes are the epitome of selfless sacrifice, while Objectivists are... Not.
Rorshach was meant to be a parody of an objectivist character from an objectivist creator.
They should bring back the Adam West style of Batman, all these modern grimbrood darkscowl ones are boring.
Just watch Batman: Brave and the Bold. It's definitely more in that fun style of Batman. Also a strong contender for best Batman show, up there with TAS and Beyond.
I have heard that Snyder is an Objectivist and if so it shines through in all his movies. He supposed to have tried to get Atlas Shrugged made for years(then a bunch of no talent hacks beat him to it).
It is probably why his DC movies suck.
Superheroes are the epitome of selfless sacrifice, while Objectivists are... Not.
Rorshach was meant to be a parody of an objectivist character from an objectivist creator.
Snyder didn't understand it was a parody.
Snyder not getting Watchmen the comic is what makes his Watchmen the movie work so well.
+3
Options
RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
I gathered that he didn't cause WW1 per se, just contributed to make it much worse(mustard gas and so on).
See I hated this part even more than the stupid punch up at the end. Fritz Haber was a real person. He won a Nobel prize for chemistry for creating the fertilizers that feed the world today. A worldwide hero of science. And then he went on to head Germany's chemical warfare program, invented mustard gas, and became universally reviled as an immoral monster.
That really happened
Wonder Woman didn't need to shove Ares and evil mask lady into that story - real life has plenty of villains already
That was the worst part of Wonderwoman for me. The movie established "Man is evil it doesn't need a god to push us that way" and then disregards that "nah nevermind it was Ares."
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
The secret to Nolan's films that Snyder and co. totally missed out on is that they're not actually grimdark or cynical. They have muted color palettes and a fairly grounded approach by the standards of the genre, but the core themes are optimistic and humanistic. WB took the wrong lessons from their success, so you get gross stuff like Batman slaughtering henchmen with machine guns.
Nolan is also not trying to be violent or nasty either. His Batman trilogy is geeking the fuck out over the property, but just in a specific way where he wants to drag it towards a less cartoony more grounded aesthetic. Batman is not that violent in those films.
Snyder just really wants to see some violent shit go down imo.
They even go out of their way to illustrate that Batman isn't violent. The beginning of TDK has the fake Batmen running around with shotguns and Batman is like, wtf, I don't use guns you assholes, gtfo.
I thought it was hockey pants?
Batmans point to them was that he has 'a code' and had the equipment to back it up, and he should be the only one allowed to do what he does. Despite the fact his armor just failed against dogs a moment before.
At this rate we'll be classing Ben-Hur as a sports movie.
Or Knightriders (the George Romero one).
I should add I'm perfectly okay with this.
Top Gun is waaaaay more of a sports movie than a war movie
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Posts
Oh well, hopefully at least some of that will go to the grips, catering, etc. who could probably use some work right now.
I think a bigger problem is the movie has no idea how to resolve it's core idea. Like it's really interesting what they set up. Diana's view of humanity vs the actual brutality, of WWI especially. But then it just kinda doesn't know where to go from here.
So it goes with generic ending where it's all the badguys fault and then there are lasers because they have no compelling way to resolve this conflict either through story action or just action action. So we get special effects, which are dull.
Funnily enough, the first movie I can think of with this exact same issue is Age of Ultron.
The Chairman is trying here and really trying to carry the weight of the movie, and he's good in his role as vengeful dad, even if they make him 66 years old which is weird when the dude is 56. It’s when it tries to show off the acting of the young Uber driver or the kewl hip detective (with his exposition wife talking to him via airpod and scenes that look to be filmed on high frame rate digital camera like you see in Asian TV shows and soaps) that more cracks start to appear. Plus, for a Friday night in Bangkok it sure is lacking in people everywhere, and the lack of gun sounds where everything is movie silenced makes it feel more like they didn’t want to cause a fuss with the public or possibly skirt film permits in places. There’s a point where Dacascos goes to kill a dude in a strip club that is given a name different to what is outside the actual club, and they either poorly covered up the name in CGI or removed the exterior letters but the halo of where they were still existed and it drew your eye to the discrepancy even more.
There comes a point where not having the money to tell the story hinders the story you wind up telling, and this is a good example of that. I'd say it'd be fine as a streaming movie, but even then it fizzles out after an hour. It's a slow burn that just never kindles into something bigger like a korean noir movie does. Always nice to see tunnel vision vengeance, you just need more skrilla to make that vengeance pop, yo. 3.5/10 UwUs. The movie also lost a point for not including the "what's the capital of Thailand?" joke.
I love that movie.
The feeling I got from the character is that for her, being a good person in the little ways and badass super heroics are both equally important and valuable. I really like that.
I mean, I think everyone would agree that DC reached their pinnacle with the Richard Pryor Superman - Superman III. They were never going to top that one. Well, maybe The Quest for Penis was slightly better, but I don't remember anything about it.
It doesn't even feel like a DCEU film, and I say that in a very positive way.
Probably the worst criticism I could level at it is that the family stuff is a bit much, but it's a pretty dang subjective criticism and I, personally, rather enjoyed that aspect anyway.
Then you must demand the Cavil Cut of Justice league, with more mustache and more sexy sexy Henry Cavil smiling.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Lego Batman is probably the closest we'll get. It would be really hard to do a 60's camp Batman movie that didn't come off as just nonstop tongue-in-cheek references to 60's camp Batman.
Dropping the Adam West Batman into the present Bat-movie-universe though and playing it as a straight fish-out-of-water/Quantum Leap style though...
The swerve that the real Ares was just a politician was brilliant. Turning him into an actual Comic Villain, not so much.
The only alternate Epic Finale I can think of would be something like Wing Commander IV's where it's just one giant debate, but uh, probably wouldn't work outside of the interactive format. :P
The big issues imo are that the villain is just really uninteresting, which always puts a damper on these kind of films and sucks the life out of the climax. They just don't do enough with him to make him compelling as a character or as an obstacle for our hero.
Also it's got this really weird thing where it's got like 5 different points where shit just got real. Like, there's a moment in most movies of that style where the hero finally decides they are all in. The "What's up danger" moment if you would, to reference a great example of this style of story. Shazam has like, fucking half a dozen of these. And each individually works pretty well but by like the 3rd time it happens it really loses all impact and muddles the hell out of the build up and release of the final confrontation.
Anyway, I look forward to seeing the next one. Hopefully they can sand the rough edges off.
WW1 was very much caused by a tragedy of errors and excusing that with divine providence kinda mucks things up a bit.
Shit sorry I did see Shazam. I forgot that was DC. I guess I accidentally lied.
Also...and please don’t run me out of town...I didn’t really like it
I was surprised because I loved Chuck.
Just watch Batman: Brave and the Bold. It's definitely more in that fun style of Batman. Also a strong contender for best Batman show, up there with TAS and Beyond.
Snyder wasn't trying to recreate Nolan's vision. Snyder just has a shitty dark vision of people. It's in everything he does.
Nolan is also not trying to be violent or nasty either. His Batman trilogy is geeking the fuck out over the property, but just in a specific way where he wants to drag it towards a less cartoony more grounded aesthetic. Batman is not that violent in those films.
Snyder just really wants to see some violent shit go down imo.
I'm shocked. I never watched chuck, but just felt the movie was joyful all around and fun. Plus I enjoyed the chuck dude as the lead. Thought he was the perfect big kid ala tom hanks in Big.
Thomas Vinterberg, a man of two very notable hits (The Celebration and The Hunt) and a slew of other films that never quite broke out, might have a middlebrow pleaser with this one. Or maybe not because of 2020 and all, but I think it's worth seeing and having your own feelings about. I don't think it's a particularly well written film, as it has trouble measuring so many of its facets (tone and construction especially), but maybe that's appropriate given its a film about the instability of drinking. The selling point is definitely Mads Mikkelsen. The rest of the cast is strong, but this film is clearly built around him and his talents. Be sure to check it if you're a fan.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Yes, though I'm not crazy about The Hunt personally.
They even go out of their way to illustrate that Batman isn't violent. The beginning of TDK has the fake Batmen running around with shotguns and Batman is like, wtf, I don't use guns you assholes, gtfo.
It is probably why his DC movies suck.
Superheroes are the epitome of selfless sacrifice, while Objectivists are... Not.
I thought it was hockey pants?
Rorshach was meant to be a parody of an objectivist character from an objectivist creator.
Snyder didn't understand it was a parody.
Brave and the Bold has the best Aquaman too
Snyder not getting Watchmen the comic is what makes his Watchmen the movie work so well.
See I hated this part even more than the stupid punch up at the end. Fritz Haber was a real person. He won a Nobel prize for chemistry for creating the fertilizers that feed the world today. A worldwide hero of science. And then he went on to head Germany's chemical warfare program, invented mustard gas, and became universally reviled as an immoral monster.
That really happened
Wonder Woman didn't need to shove Ares and evil mask lady into that story - real life has plenty of villains already
pleasepaypreacher.net
Batmans point to them was that he has 'a code' and had the equipment to back it up, and he should be the only one allowed to do what he does. Despite the fact his armor just failed against dogs a moment before.
Top Gun is waaaaay more of a sports movie than a war movie