[League of Legends] Now with Yasuo 2.0, Sivir 2.0, and Sona 2.0

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  • PhasenPhasen Hell WorldRegistered User regular
    If anyone is looking for another person to play with my summoners name is Phasen99. Currently getting shitkicked in gold 4.

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  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    Isn't tear good on her too for double shield? Makes you unkillable .

    I don't think it's a good call to spend time stacking a tear on Lux. You really want to leverage your early strength by crushing your lane and roaming, otherwise you should probably be playing someone with better late scaling; your positioning in fights is very far back, so you should often live anyway; and you have nothing particularly spammable to charge tear with.

    I do stack tear on Orianna when I have the luxury of doing so--sometimes it feels necessary to build a Luden's instead so I have access to more immediate power. But Orianna has a really different power curve--she doesn't have a lot of kill potential early/is not a solokill with 6 champion, whereas Lux absolutely starts fishing for kills around 6, or even earlier depending on what's been happening in lane. Orianna, you can hit every single Q+W in lane and you run out of mana before your opponent runs out of health; it's depressing but you just need to understand that it isn't expected that you be megastrong early, because instead you are SO strong later. Definitely was an adjustment after playing a lot of Lux though.

    I think I got her and orianna confused as orianna builds it for the double shield, not lux. And this would be pro play. My mistake

    Yeah tear is not one of the recommended items for Ori in the shop, but I am so bad at managing my mana that I really like having it. If I don't have Seraph's, I can play one teamfight or skirmish and I have to b; with it I can chill forever.

    The shield is nice too, of course.

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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    edited September 26
    credeiki wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    Isn't tear good on her too for double shield? Makes you unkillable .

    I don't think it's a good call to spend time stacking a tear on Lux. You really want to leverage your early strength by crushing your lane and roaming, otherwise you should probably be playing someone with better late scaling; your positioning in fights is very far back, so you should often live anyway; and you have nothing particularly spammable to charge tear with.

    I do stack tear on Orianna when I have the luxury of doing so--sometimes it feels necessary to build a Luden's instead so I have access to more immediate power. But Orianna has a really different power curve--she doesn't have a lot of kill potential early/is not a solokill with 6 champion, whereas Lux absolutely starts fishing for kills around 6, or even earlier depending on what's been happening in lane. Orianna, you can hit every single Q+W in lane and you run out of mana before your opponent runs out of health; it's depressing but you just need to understand that it isn't expected that you be megastrong early, because instead you are SO strong later. Definitely was an adjustment after playing a lot of Lux though.

    I think I got her and orianna confused as orianna builds it for the double shield, not lux. And this would be pro play. My mistake

    Yeah tear is not one of the recommended items for Ori in the shop, but I am so bad at managing my mana that I really like having it. If I don't have Seraph's, I can play one teamfight or skirmish and I have to b; with it I can chill forever.

    The shield is nice too, of course.

    One of the biggest things imo in my continued learning of karthus was to get by without a tear. Learn to manage Mana properly, buy a RoA for Mana, health, ap, but save the money on archangels for other items. Be it a deathcap, liandrys, or void staff depending on game. And I almost always buy the morello's magic pen item but save it at that. The shields never felt that useful as karthus to me, and ori is a totally different beast, but as karthus dive the back and die I'd rather have zhonyas. But that's just me, and again, different champ.

    Also, in aram, they recommend tear on almost everyone . It's pretty good in aram, but it's such a gold sink, if you don't need it or scale with it skip it. Presence of mind is enough Mana for aram, and you can always buy the Mana regen thingies for 125. There's a few champs I immediately got s's on after I stopped starting tear.

    RickRude on
  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    Just played a game where 4 of the 5 people on my team got an S rank. That is pretty cool.

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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Elder dragon is so hilarious to watch. Fights start off normal then people start popping like bubbles.

  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    edited September 26
    World's
    TL looking strong and have a good chance of being first in their play in group

    More world's plus some C9 talk
    Isn't mad lions fall almost as bad as c9's?. They were dominate in spring, most of summer, and fell apart in playoffs. If eu doesn't get 4 teams they from #1 to out of world's, just like c9. And they haven't looked good at world's, which sadly, I don't think c9 would have either

    Last thoughts on world's finishing off the day
    Whoever finishes 2nd in group A has a hard tssk in group B with either unicorns of love or psg taking second in their group.

    RickRude on
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  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Issue #4 of the KD/A comic is up, which involves Kai'sa.

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  • TcheldorTcheldor Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    World's
    TL looking strong and have a good chance of being first in their play in group

    More world's plus some C9 talk
    Isn't mad lions fall almost as bad as c9's?. They were dominate in spring, most of summer, and fell apart in playoffs. If eu doesn't get 4 teams they from #1 to out of world's, just like c9. And they haven't looked good at world's, which sadly, I don't think c9 would have either

    Last thoughts on world's finishing off the day
    Whoever finishes 2nd in group A has a hard tssk in group B with either unicorns of love or psg taking second in their group.

    Mad Lions
    they never were as dominant as C9 was. They were strong, but yea.

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  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    I cannot get Warwick to work at all. I keep getting demolished by the enemy jungler any time we fight and when we get into team fights I melt.

    I think I'm gonna stop with Warwick and stick to Voli and Skarner, maybe Vi after I try her out.

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    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

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  • NiryaNirya Registered User regular
    Tcheldor wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    World's
    TL looking strong and have a good chance of being first in their play in group

    More world's plus some C9 talk
    Isn't mad lions fall almost as bad as c9's?. They were dominate in spring, most of summer, and fell apart in playoffs. If eu doesn't get 4 teams they from #1 to out of world's, just like c9. And they haven't looked good at world's, which sadly, I don't think c9 would have either

    Last thoughts on world's finishing off the day
    Whoever finishes 2nd in group A has a hard tssk in group B with either unicorns of love or psg taking second in their group.

    Mad Lions
    they never were as dominant as C9 was. They were strong, but yea.

    More specifically
    LEC Sprint Split was dominated by G2, and Mad Lions only started playing well once the LEC moved to the online era. It’s not completely surprising that they struggled when the playoffs hit, and are struggling upon the return to a stage. They’re a young team so it’s expected.

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  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    Just lost a game that I'm sure we should have won. This Sett kept getting caught out by himself. It was so frustrating.

    Also this Darius had such an easy time b-lining it to me as Trist. He waited till I rocket jumped and murdered me. Had to build that grievous wounds item because he was able to heal so amazingly well.

    Self healing feels like a massive problem in this game to me, at least at lower elo.

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  • TcheldorTcheldor Registered User regular
    That's why grevious exists.

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  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Champs with self healing are mostly fine. The problem is how much healing is on runes.

    Trying to poke out a fleet footwork taste for blood ravenous hunter akali or yone pre-6 so you don’t instantly die is almost impossible.

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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    World's
    I feel so bad for uol. Just threw that game. Now they have to play a bo5 which they've lost the last game of last two times at world's.

    They had it

  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    I've lost the last 7 ranked games, about to get demoted back to bronze where I belong.

    Busted characters at this ELO keep making it through bans and they keep snowballing so hard.

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    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Stragint wrote: »
    I've lost the last 7 ranked games, about to get demoted back to bronze where I belong.

    Busted characters at this ELO keep making it through bans and they keep snowballing so hard.

    I feel ya, I lost enough games straight to go from the cusp of silver I to silver IV

    Now at silver III on the back of some Taric wins. I’ll play Braum/Rakan more with ADC who know their shit

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  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    Tcheldor wrote: »
    That's why grevious exists.

    Doesn't really matter when they are still out healing it, plus a lot of champs have really strong built in healing and Varus is the only champ I can think of that has grievous.

    I also mentioned that I built a grievous item so there is that.

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • PenumbraPenumbra Registered User regular
    Stragint wrote: »
    Tcheldor wrote: »
    That's why grevious exists.

    Doesn't really matter when they are still out healing it, plus a lot of champs have really strong built in healing and Varus is the only champ I can think of that has grievous.

    I also mentioned that I built a grievous item so there is that.

    Kat has it built into her R. And I’m pretty certain that Kled does on his bear-trap-on-a-rope.

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  • PenumbraPenumbra Registered User regular
    Worlds:
    Welcome to groups stages TL. They looked fucking dominant from the start of the tie break match.

    I... I can’t get my hopes up again. I must keep a level head...

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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Penumbra wrote: »
    Worlds:
    Welcome to groups stages TL. They looked fucking dominant from the start of the tie break match.

    I... I can’t get my hopes up again. I must keep a level head...

    More world's
    I was so worried when they choked and threw that game against inz. I though for sure they were doomed in the tiebreaker. But they looked nuts in that game.

  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    Is Jinx worth playing? She is fun but I feel like I'm hurting myself when I could be playing MF or Trist. I find MF super boring so I haven't really been doing much with her, same with Cait.

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    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    Stragint wrote: »
    Is Jinx worth playing? She is fun but I feel like I'm hurting myself when I could be playing MF or Trist. I find MF super boring so I haven't really been doing much with her, same with Cait.

    IE is more gold efficient on her than any other character but she doesn't have a early spike. Most of the time it comes down to execution. If you can get ahead you can really run away with it though.

  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Jinx is fun, I was mostly a jinx otp in bot lane but you are entirely at the mercy of your support if the other team has an assassin and it was honestly enough to sent me to mid/top because I had such little ability to control my games.

    You could be 10/1/5 on jinx and a 0/4/3 Katarina is going to kill you and your support in a half second if they don’t interrupt the ult.

    But honestly it’s mostly a bot lane problem. If you’re already suffering in the worst lane in league, jinx is a good a pick as any.

    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    I think her not having an early speak is what I need to deal with if I keep playing her. Once I hit 3 on Trist I can go HAM on someone with my support. Jinx feels different.

    My team countered a jungle invade and I got first blood, grabbed a long sword and went to lane and I wasn't able to do a damn thing with it. Galio and I got dunked on pretty hard by Kalista and Taric so the first blood felt like a huge waste going to me. I managed to come out of lane unkilled and got maybe 1 or 2 more kills but Galio died I think once or twice and that Kalista was just so brutal.

    It isn't like I generally make much of a difference on Trist either. I honestly feel like a majority of the time I am being carried as an ADC. A lot of it probably comes down to me just not being that good. I really just want to play more interesting ADC, Cait and MF just don't feel as interesting kit wise as Trist and Jinx. Ezreal is pretty fun so I play him sometimes as well.

    I am considering grabbing Jhin, he seems interesting or maybe Kai'Sa. I got a Samira shard and disenchanted so I can buy any champ I want now.

    I did get to give jungle Vi a chance and she is definitely as fun as I remember her being.

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    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

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  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    Ok let me talk about the ADC picks you mentioned because I have a lot of feelings on this
    For context: I'm sort of a Jhin main, gold 2 atm, hopefully plat by end of season but we shall see. In addition to Jhin, I will routinely play Sivir and Caitlyn ranked, and some Ashe, Kai'sa, MF, Xayah, Varus, Tristana. I play Lucian mid but not bot for reasons I cannot explain (well--cause Lucian really requires full commitment and I don't know that I'll have a good support, I guess).

    A lot of adcs feel quite similar mechanically, but what varies is the amount of pressure they have in lane and how weak or strong they are earlier and later. Kai'sa and to some extent Tristana are exceptions as you have assassination potential/backline access that you really don't on other adcs, so you need to think of your role in the game a bit differently.

    When you want to play Jhin--Jhin is great with a poke support and will win lane when paired with Lux or Zyra or Xerath. If you are paired with a scared Thresh or an enchanter support though, you will get wrecked by a poke lane like Caitlyn+Nami/Lux. Allin support can be very good cause you have tons of burst, but if you guys don't focus the same target, you're going to have an awkward place in a 2v2 where you run out of bullets and they are not dead and now you are dead. If you are in an unfortunate lane, you can generally still cs under tower well, but it takes practice. You might end up just chilling and waiting for ganks/using your mana to cs instead of harass; can't be helped and it's better than feeding.
    I love pairing Jhin with a Hecarim jungle; you can support his ganks so well (he runs in; you stun from out of range; you walk forward and finish off the stunned target). He's not amazing against tanks, since he mostly does burst damage; he can struggle where there's some sort of flanking jungler (eg evelynn) because he wants to ult from a safe distance and you can get assassinated mid ult.
    A Jhin who has gotten ahead feels extremely scary to the enemy team cause he'll do 1/3 hp with one auto. A Jhin who is behind still has a ton of utility in stuns.
    Jhin does feel a little different from other adcs because of the limited ammo, and in general his sound design and visual design are very good, so I think he's very fun and satisfying to play. I don't feel that there's a point in the game where he feels weak, provided he's keeping up with the pace of the game rather than horribly behind.

    Caitlyn you play to win lane. She's great to just perma-push on; also can be incredible to just freeze the lane and shoot anyone who comes even close from 650 range. She should basically win every matchup (obviously support diff can make this not true, as can skill differentials). If you start off strong, you should feel nice all game; if not, she feels kinda bad at like 2 items, but then feels good again after.

    MF you also play to win lane, and of course you're hoping to do something in a teamfight with your ult; I've been playing her into Caitlyn a little and maybe it's a skill thing but I think she certainly can win that. I haven't played her enough to understand quite what item breakpoints feel good on her.

    Ashe is lane dominant but immobile, and managing your volley mana is a bit tricky. If you are allowed to stand and auto, your q autos easily win duels with most other adcs. You are of course playing Ashe for the utility; the nice damage is a bonus feature. You seriously have to be smart about your positioning though. To me she also feels like she has a pretty even power curve with no big weak spot.

    Jinx pushes extremely well, so although she's 'not strong early', not a lot of adcs actually manage to deal well with you constantly minigunning the minion wave and then flipping to rocket them for a bit of poke. Still though, you don't have a lot of harass, so it's going to be up to your support, and in a straight 2v2, you don't necessarily win if they can spam spells and you can't. If you do get something like Leona, you can of course stack your traps on her stun and kill them. She starts to feel really good at item 3, but even just IE+hurricane starts to feel all right. Before then it can be a bit rough. Again positioning is key, because if you can freefire rockets from 700 range you win the teamfight, and if an assassin is anywhere near you you're dead. Late game/full build, she feels like maybe the highest damage adc--providing she actually gets to auto.

    Tristana is a weird one. She can seriously snowball, more than most other adcs, because her jump allows her to take advantage of any lead. That said, she has no harass/no way to cs safely if bullied. So Tristana lanes often feel very support-determined; if you're with a good all-in support, you will start getting kills, or with a strong poke support; if not, there is not a lot you can do in lane. If you don't get the early snowball, it takes a while to ramp up to full Tristana--I feel like again you want maybe 3 items.

    Kai'sa plays pretty differently from most adcs. You get a lot of value from your Q and you have the option, often worth taking, of becoming a backline assassin. She feels extremely weak early (buy the pickaxe before the tear to help mitigate this problem), because all her stuff is very close range. If you manage to get in a long enough 2v2 where somehow you haven't died before your stacks pop, and you get that burst damage, you might win it. But lane can be really rough. That said, around lvl 12 or so, when you evolve your Q and have manamune+guinsoos, life starts looking up for you, and once the manamune evolves and you also have your third item, you start feeling really strong. I've had good luck with AD builds rather than anything with a nashor's and zhonyas, but you can do those too.

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  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/preseason-2021-mythic-legendary-items-preview/

    an ad assassin has already killed you before you finish reading this article

    those items are beyond absurd.

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  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/preseason-2021-mythic-legendary-items-preview/

    an ad assassin has already killed you before you finish reading this article

    those items are beyond absurd.

    ...why do the ad assassin items have more ad on them than the marksman items?
    And ok, I don’t know about the item reworks/haven’t been following it closely, but are these instead of IE? Clearly one of them is like PD but I am primarily interested in something with ~80 AD that multiplies my crit damage.
    That said, nothing keeping you from building the pen items on marksmen, right? Or are they for melee only?
    I do trust that Riot will balance things though.

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  • IvelliusIvellius Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/preseason-2021-mythic-legendary-items-preview/

    an ad assassin has already killed you before you finish reading this article

    those items are beyond absurd.

    Rito plz

    plz no

    More seriously...these might work, but man, it's going to take some getting used to.

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  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    IE is still there it's just a normal legendary and not a mythic item.

    The problem is the passives on the AD assassin items. Hit someone with 2 abilities and do 16% max hp and also get a gigantic shield and movespeed on a 6 second cooldown? Good luck trading with any ad assassin in lane. Get a kill and go invisible for 1.5 seconds? How do you punish rengar/zed/talon now after they execute your adc/mage?

    When yet another dash with burst on an active for a class of characters that already have 90 movement options is the least ridiculous of the three, I just don't understand how you balance those items.

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  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    credeiki wrote: »
    Ok let me talk about the ADC picks you mentioned because I have a lot of feelings on this
    For context: I'm sort of a Jhin main, gold 2 atm, hopefully plat by end of season but we shall see. In addition to Jhin, I will routinely play Sivir and Caitlyn ranked, and some Ashe, Kai'sa, MF, Xayah, Varus, Tristana. I play Lucian mid but not bot for reasons I cannot explain (well--cause Lucian really requires full commitment and I don't know that I'll have a good support, I guess).

    A lot of adcs feel quite similar mechanically, but what varies is the amount of pressure they have in lane and how weak or strong they are earlier and later. Kai'sa and to some extent Tristana are exceptions as you have assassination potential/backline access that you really don't on other adcs, so you need to think of your role in the game a bit differently.

    When you want to play Jhin--Jhin is great with a poke support and will win lane when paired with Lux or Zyra or Xerath. If you are paired with a scared Thresh or an enchanter support though, you will get wrecked by a poke lane like Caitlyn+Nami/Lux. Allin support can be very good cause you have tons of burst, but if you guys don't focus the same target, you're going to have an awkward place in a 2v2 where you run out of bullets and they are not dead and now you are dead. If you are in an unfortunate lane, you can generally still cs under tower well, but it takes practice. You might end up just chilling and waiting for ganks/using your mana to cs instead of harass; can't be helped and it's better than feeding.
    I love pairing Jhin with a Hecarim jungle; you can support his ganks so well (he runs in; you stun from out of range; you walk forward and finish off the stunned target). He's not amazing against tanks, since he mostly does burst damage; he can struggle where there's some sort of flanking jungler (eg evelynn) because he wants to ult from a safe distance and you can get assassinated mid ult.
    A Jhin who has gotten ahead feels extremely scary to the enemy team cause he'll do 1/3 hp with one auto. A Jhin who is behind still has a ton of utility in stuns.
    Jhin does feel a little different from other adcs because of the limited ammo, and in general his sound design and visual design are very good, so I think he's very fun and satisfying to play. I don't feel that there's a point in the game where he feels weak, provided he's keeping up with the pace of the game rather than horribly behind.

    Caitlyn you play to win lane. She's great to just perma-push on; also can be incredible to just freeze the lane and shoot anyone who comes even close from 650 range. She should basically win every matchup (obviously support diff can make this not true, as can skill differentials). If you start off strong, you should feel nice all game; if not, she feels kinda bad at like 2 items, but then feels good again after.

    MF you also play to win lane, and of course you're hoping to do something in a teamfight with your ult; I've been playing her into Caitlyn a little and maybe it's a skill thing but I think she certainly can win that. I haven't played her enough to understand quite what item breakpoints feel good on her.

    Ashe is lane dominant but immobile, and managing your volley mana is a bit tricky. If you are allowed to stand and auto, your q autos easily win duels with most other adcs. You are of course playing Ashe for the utility; the nice damage is a bonus feature. You seriously have to be smart about your positioning though. To me she also feels like she has a pretty even power curve with no big weak spot.

    Jinx pushes extremely well, so although she's 'not strong early', not a lot of adcs actually manage to deal well with you constantly minigunning the minion wave and then flipping to rocket them for a bit of poke. Still though, you don't have a lot of harass, so it's going to be up to your support, and in a straight 2v2, you don't necessarily win if they can spam spells and you can't. If you do get something like Leona, you can of course stack your traps on her stun and kill them. She starts to feel really good at item 3, but even just IE+hurricane starts to feel all right. Before then it can be a bit rough. Again positioning is key, because if you can freefire rockets from 700 range you win the teamfight, and if an assassin is anywhere near you you're dead. Late game/full build, she feels like maybe the highest damage adc--providing she actually gets to auto.

    Tristana is a weird one. She can seriously snowball, more than most other adcs, because her jump allows her to take advantage of any lead. That said, she has no harass/no way to cs safely if bullied. So Tristana lanes often feel very support-determined; if you're with a good all-in support, you will start getting kills, or with a strong poke support; if not, there is not a lot you can do in lane. If you don't get the early snowball, it takes a while to ramp up to full Tristana--I feel like again you want maybe 3 items.

    Kai'sa plays pretty differently from most adcs. You get a lot of value from your Q and you have the option, often worth taking, of becoming a backline assassin. She feels extremely weak early (buy the pickaxe before the tear to help mitigate this problem), because all her stuff is very close range. If you manage to get in a long enough 2v2 where somehow you haven't died before your stacks pop, and you get that burst damage, you might win it. But lane can be really rough. That said, around lvl 12 or so, when you evolve your Q and have manamune+guinsoos, life starts looking up for you, and once the manamune evolves and you also have your third item, you start feeling really strong. I've had good luck with AD builds rather than anything with a nashor's and zhonyas, but you can do those too.

    Thank you for the run down on these ADC. It definitely helps to put them into better perspective for me. I definitely wasn't pushing much with Jinx and Cait and I kind of tend to try and play all the ADC in a similar way. I do also kind of want to add Twitch back into my ADC list, I have a skin and I like playing him but I feel like I get wrecked every time I play him.

    I do like Jhin, I did end up buying him and playing a few games and I like how he plays, it will definitely take a while to get used to but I ran into a kind of a problem.

    The last game my friend and I did with Jhin last night went well, my friend went support and played Rakan. We went against Kalista and Morgana and pretty easily won the lane though we did not get any plates and only a few kills so maybe not won but we didn't give up any kills to them. Once we hit late game though I had a full build but didn't really feel like I could effectively use it. The enemy LeBlanc got fed and was basically deleting me every time and I couldn't really fight her in any kind of meaningful way and I had trouble in team fights as well, I felt like I wasn't doing much. We should have won the game, we didn't take the early opportunities to do so. It went on for 48 minutes which was about 20 minutes longer than it should have gone.

    I also didn't use the trap that much, I felt like it ate too much of my mana for when I wanted to Q in lane and I kept forgetting about it in team fights.

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  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    IE is still there it's just a normal legendary and not a mythic item.

    The problem is the passives on the AD assassin items. Hit someone with 2 abilities and do 16% max hp and also get a gigantic shield and movespeed on a 6 second cooldown? Good luck trading with any ad assassin in lane. Get a kill and go invisible for 1.5 seconds? How do you punish rengar/zed/talon now after they execute your adc/mage?

    When yet another dash with burst on an active for a class of characters that already have 90 movement options is the least ridiculous of the three, I just don't understand how you balance those items.

    Yeah they make me mad since I’m a botlane player
    I guess I also play a lot of mid now but I specifically don’t play AD assassins, only ap champions and lucian. I know I could play AD assassins but it’s just not something I’m really interested in, so if it’s heavily in meta that’s bad for my enjoyment.

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  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    Stragint wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    Ok let me talk about the ADC picks you mentioned because I have a lot of feelings on this
    For context: I'm sort of a Jhin main, gold 2 atm, hopefully plat by end of season but we shall see. In addition to Jhin, I will routinely play Sivir and Caitlyn ranked, and some Ashe, Kai'sa, MF, Xayah, Varus, Tristana. I play Lucian mid but not bot for reasons I cannot explain (well--cause Lucian really requires full commitment and I don't know that I'll have a good support, I guess).

    A lot of adcs feel quite similar mechanically, but what varies is the amount of pressure they have in lane and how weak or strong they are earlier and later. Kai'sa and to some extent Tristana are exceptions as you have assassination potential/backline access that you really don't on other adcs, so you need to think of your role in the game a bit differently.

    When you want to play Jhin--Jhin is great with a poke support and will win lane when paired with Lux or Zyra or Xerath. If you are paired with a scared Thresh or an enchanter support though, you will get wrecked by a poke lane like Caitlyn+Nami/Lux. Allin support can be very good cause you have tons of burst, but if you guys don't focus the same target, you're going to have an awkward place in a 2v2 where you run out of bullets and they are not dead and now you are dead. If you are in an unfortunate lane, you can generally still cs under tower well, but it takes practice. You might end up just chilling and waiting for ganks/using your mana to cs instead of harass; can't be helped and it's better than feeding.
    I love pairing Jhin with a Hecarim jungle; you can support his ganks so well (he runs in; you stun from out of range; you walk forward and finish off the stunned target). He's not amazing against tanks, since he mostly does burst damage; he can struggle where there's some sort of flanking jungler (eg evelynn) because he wants to ult from a safe distance and you can get assassinated mid ult.
    A Jhin who has gotten ahead feels extremely scary to the enemy team cause he'll do 1/3 hp with one auto. A Jhin who is behind still has a ton of utility in stuns.
    Jhin does feel a little different from other adcs because of the limited ammo, and in general his sound design and visual design are very good, so I think he's very fun and satisfying to play. I don't feel that there's a point in the game where he feels weak, provided he's keeping up with the pace of the game rather than horribly behind.

    Caitlyn you play to win lane. She's great to just perma-push on; also can be incredible to just freeze the lane and shoot anyone who comes even close from 650 range. She should basically win every matchup (obviously support diff can make this not true, as can skill differentials). If you start off strong, you should feel nice all game; if not, she feels kinda bad at like 2 items, but then feels good again after.

    MF you also play to win lane, and of course you're hoping to do something in a teamfight with your ult; I've been playing her into Caitlyn a little and maybe it's a skill thing but I think she certainly can win that. I haven't played her enough to understand quite what item breakpoints feel good on her.

    Ashe is lane dominant but immobile, and managing your volley mana is a bit tricky. If you are allowed to stand and auto, your q autos easily win duels with most other adcs. You are of course playing Ashe for the utility; the nice damage is a bonus feature. You seriously have to be smart about your positioning though. To me she also feels like she has a pretty even power curve with no big weak spot.

    Jinx pushes extremely well, so although she's 'not strong early', not a lot of adcs actually manage to deal well with you constantly minigunning the minion wave and then flipping to rocket them for a bit of poke. Still though, you don't have a lot of harass, so it's going to be up to your support, and in a straight 2v2, you don't necessarily win if they can spam spells and you can't. If you do get something like Leona, you can of course stack your traps on her stun and kill them. She starts to feel really good at item 3, but even just IE+hurricane starts to feel all right. Before then it can be a bit rough. Again positioning is key, because if you can freefire rockets from 700 range you win the teamfight, and if an assassin is anywhere near you you're dead. Late game/full build, she feels like maybe the highest damage adc--providing she actually gets to auto.

    Tristana is a weird one. She can seriously snowball, more than most other adcs, because her jump allows her to take advantage of any lead. That said, she has no harass/no way to cs safely if bullied. So Tristana lanes often feel very support-determined; if you're with a good all-in support, you will start getting kills, or with a strong poke support; if not, there is not a lot you can do in lane. If you don't get the early snowball, it takes a while to ramp up to full Tristana--I feel like again you want maybe 3 items.

    Kai'sa plays pretty differently from most adcs. You get a lot of value from your Q and you have the option, often worth taking, of becoming a backline assassin. She feels extremely weak early (buy the pickaxe before the tear to help mitigate this problem), because all her stuff is very close range. If you manage to get in a long enough 2v2 where somehow you haven't died before your stacks pop, and you get that burst damage, you might win it. But lane can be really rough. That said, around lvl 12 or so, when you evolve your Q and have manamune+guinsoos, life starts looking up for you, and once the manamune evolves and you also have your third item, you start feeling really strong. I've had good luck with AD builds rather than anything with a nashor's and zhonyas, but you can do those too.

    Thank you for the run down on these ADC. It definitely helps to put them into better perspective for me. I definitely wasn't pushing much with Jinx and Cait and I kind of tend to try and play all the ADC in a similar way. I do also kind of want to add Twitch back into my ADC list, I have a skin and I like playing him but I feel like I get wrecked every time I play him.

    I do like Jhin, I did end up buying him and playing a few games and I like how he plays, it will definitely take a while to get used to but I ran into a kind of a problem.

    The last game my friend and I did with Jhin last night went well, my friend went support and played Rakan. We went against Kalista and Morgana and pretty easily won the lane though we did not get any plates and only a few kills so maybe not won but we didn't give up any kills to them. Once we hit late game though I had a full build but didn't really feel like I could effectively use it. The enemy LeBlanc got fed and was basically deleting me every time and I couldn't really fight her in any kind of meaningful way and I had trouble in team fights as well, I felt like I wasn't doing much. We should have won the game, we didn't take the early opportunities to do so. It went on for 48 minutes which was about 20 minutes longer than it should have gone.

    I also didn't use the trap that much, I felt like it ate too much of my mana for when I wanted to Q in lane and I kept forgetting about it in team fights.

    Jhin traps: how I use Jhin traps in lane is:
    1. slow down/block river ganks: I place them where the river meets botlane, 2 or 3 tangent to each other so anyone visiting the lane is slowed. This is the ideal use for me.
    2. In the forward edge of one if the bushes—to deter the enemy support from chilling in the bush/to potentially stun them and get some harass down
    3. In the middle of the lane right in front of my tower if I’m getting pushed in and need emergency wave clear
    4. Next to my tower if it looks like we’re about to get dived :(

    How do I use them out of lane:
    1. Cover jungle entrances and exits around baron or dragon, so anyone coming in is slowed and might take damage or I can stun them
    2. Cover jungle entrances into lane while pushing, both behind me and laterally. This can help with flanking assassins.
    3. Drop them in front of me during a teamfight, hopefully with enough time for it to arm and help me run away
    4. Just kinda drop them in a teamfight and hope someone steps on them hahaha

    If you are having problems with a fed LB as Jhin, possible solutions:
    1. Itemize defensively. Do less damage, buy a hexdrinker, buy a mercurial scimitar, buy a ga, hell buy a death’s dance.
    2. Don’t play 2 screens away ult/stun Jhin. Stand on your team so they can defend you instead of standing isolated and far away (this seems counterintuitive but sometimes playing farther forward can help against assassins, depending on what else is happening with your team)
    3. If LB is blowing her whole kit on you, she can’t explode anything else. Are you the only damage threat on your whole team? If so, that’s not your fault; it’s either a problem with champ select (probably should not have a ‘protect the Jhin’ comp), or a problem with your teammates (did everyone else lose lane? That isn’t on you). Sometimes as adc what you can do is present a big enough threat that the enemy MUST blow many cooldowns and ults to deal with you. That enables the rest of your team to do their thing unperturbed while you watch them from a grey screen :(


    Yeah happy to provide adc insight! I know I push too much, and there are times you should freeze for advantage. But pushing as a dominant adc helps maintain dragon control, pulls their jungler to your lane (ward and don’t die! Waste their time and let your other lanes free farm without that threat), gets plates, can enable harass under tower, can make enemy lose cs (basically always below midgold, although eventually people get better at cs under tower), puts the lane in a good spot for you to recall and shop whenever you feel like it, makes the enemy adc feel bad :D
    But yeah you can probably tell that from the list of adcs I play and how it excludes Vayne and Twitch and Ezreal and Kogmaw hahaha

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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Watching pro junglers always trip me out. In yelling at the screen "you need one more hit on that jungle camo, why you running away!?!?". Oh, red buff proc. Even on dragon, has like 100hp left but they know the spell + red will finish it off.

    I've played this game a long time, I'll never have that level of mastery.

    credeiki
  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    edited September 29
    Knight_ wrote: »
    https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/preseason-2021-mythic-legendary-items-preview/

    an ad assassin has already killed you before you finish reading this article

    those items are beyond absurd.

    Isn't kraken slayer just vaynes silver arrows basically? Some of these items seem to help meta champions while pushing non meta champs further out of the meta. Then again maybe vaynes loves galeforce.


    Edit what even are these items? Are they new ormn upgrades (which would make him op as hell) or upgrades you buy in shop ala ormn items? I'm confused, they all seem op.

    RickRude on
  • TcheldorTcheldor Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/preseason-2021-mythic-legendary-items-preview/

    an ad assassin has already killed you before you finish reading this article

    those items are beyond absurd.

    Isn't kraken slayer just vaynes silver arrows basically? Some of these items seem to help meta champions while pushing non meta champs further out of the meta. Then again maybe vaynes loves galeforce.


    Edit what even are these items? Are they new ormn upgrades (which would make him op as hell) or upgrades you buy in shop ala ormn items? I'm confused, they all seem op.

    They are a new tier of item that costs about 3800 gold or such. You may only have ONE Mythic item in your inventory per game. The idea is your build your Mythic first/second, and your build will then revolve around it.

    They're supposed to be sorta defining items for what you need in any given game. Do I need more damage/Survivability/etc.

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  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    Tcheldor wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    Knight_ wrote: »
    https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/preseason-2021-mythic-legendary-items-preview/

    an ad assassin has already killed you before you finish reading this article

    those items are beyond absurd.

    Isn't kraken slayer just vaynes silver arrows basically? Some of these items seem to help meta champions while pushing non meta champs further out of the meta. Then again maybe vaynes loves galeforce.


    Edit what even are these items? Are they new ormn upgrades (which would make him op as hell) or upgrades you buy in shop ala ormn items? I'm confused, they all seem op.

    They are a new tier of item that costs about 3800 gold or such. You may only have ONE Mythic item in your inventory per game. The idea is your build your Mythic first/second, and your build will then revolve around it.

    They're supposed to be sorta defining items for what you need in any given game. Do I need more damage/Survivability/etc.

    Hmm I feel like you don’t always know that by the time you build your first item. What if their akali starts out 0/3 but then gets a penta and you suddenly have survivability issues you didn’t expect!

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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    I've looked through them, and I have no clue what I would want to build on karthus. The upgraded liandrys item maybe?

  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    edited September 29
    idk, i find the mage items to be pretty lackluster from just looking at them.

    an absolute gigantic amount of CDR is gone from them, a lost chapter item + runes get a lot of champs to 30%-35% depending and that's almost double the effect of the spell haste you're going to get in the new system.

    Knight_ on
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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    edited September 29
    Knight_ wrote: »
    idk, i find the mage items to be pretty lackluster from just looking at them.

    an absolute gigantic amount of CDR is gone from them, a lost chapter item + runes get a lot of champs to 30%-35% depending and that's almost double the effect of the spell haste you're going to get in the new system.

    I immediately saw a huge boost for vlad for one of the items. Just didn't see anything big for sustain damage mages. I'll wait for people smarter than me to build things on karthus I guess.

    I didn't build liandrys every game though. Depends on comp, game state, etc.

    Edit

    Also is haste different from cdr? I assumed it was just a new fancy word.

    RickRude on
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