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[League of Legends] Bel'Veth slaps

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Posts

  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Woof, after a bunch of back and forth I finally made it into my promos to try to get into Silver for the season.

    First game I get a Yone who's constantly dying, and I think was actually feeding. Like once you get to 15+ deaths... yeah.

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  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited April 9
    Ivellius wrote: »
    A well-maintained freeze really, really fucks you over top, and it's worth rolling the dice on your life to break it if your only other option is lose several waves of experience. But that's rarely your only option outside diamond-level games.

    Oh, yeah, I'm not trying to be dismissive of this, exactly, but I wouldn't think it's going to accurately maintained at lower ranks. Sure, someone might die once somewhat acceptably, but after a couple of deaths usually the other top laner will pin you under tower anyway given that they'll probably bully you and want to farm their own waves. (I think that makes sense?)

    But after writing this I decided I was curious and went to watch the replay, and both top laners had a few moments where they ended up freezing pretty well. After his first death Kled sets up a pretty decent freeze and actually gets ahead of Nasus in XP and gold. Right before Kled's second death, Nasus was freezing it okay (and it likely needed intervention), but Kled does a bad job shoving it in (doesn't use Q on waves) and takes a couple of tower shots and then dies pretty easily. People might be better than I assume...

    Advice specifically about that lane: generally, don't gank for a dismounted Kled unless the enemy is in really rough shape (he has very little stickiness and no CC of his own), and don't be afraid to commit ultimate early sometimes--you had a chance to shut down the Nasus a bit later, which might've more delayed his scaling than halt it but could've helped.

    Yeah the dismounted Kled thing was part of what I mentioned about looking at and understanding lane state before making these kinds of decisions (patching/gank priority). It wasn't something I thought of just because most champions aren't so binary in their usefulness.

    Also, would another method of dealing with as a top potentially be just roaming and trying to do other shit? I understand giving the nasus totally free farm is bad, but maybe you can just end the game before that. I'm not saying totally abandon the lane but if you can counter jungle a bit, gank mid, etc.

    This kind of stuff is also why top lane would be my absolute last pick for a lane.

    In other news I'm thinking about picking up Wukong next patch as my AD Diana option. They feel pretty similar, melee damage, gap close, aoe cc, strong carry potential. The buffs look pretty great.

    ChaosHat on
  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    Normally you'd call your jungler up to stand around and help you break the freeze. That way the opponent doesn't free farm, no one on your team loses exp and there's less exposure for ganks

  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    Moridin889 wrote: »
    Normally you'd call your jungler up to stand around and help you break the freeze. That way the opponent doesn't free farm, no one on your team loses exp and there's less exposure for ganks

    So this seems pretty suboptimal because showing myself for any length of time to just...stand around isn't really free. I'm losing a ton of map pressure and probably getting counterjungled.

    Having googled this to understand because I literally never lane, it seems like the way to unfreeze the lane is to just push hard and let the minions crash under the turret and the wave will bounce off. So it makes sense that freezing would work against Kled who can't really aoe down the minion wave safely and doesn't have range because if he got close enough to the enemy he's risking death from a gank. If you were say, Vayne top even though she doesn't have the aoe she can use her range to do it more safely and has tools to get out of there and save herself.

    But what if I'm playing someone like Rek'sai or Trundle? I couldn't really help aoe and we'd be risking the same issue, I guess at least there it's a 2v2, but now it's a 2v2 where the enemy jungler could have done literally anything they want with impunity.

    Further, it doesn't seem like you HAVE to get frozen right? It seems like if you just do less total damage to the minion wave, it will automatically push back towards your own tower. Worst case scenario you could just back, do something else, and the lane will push back on it's own wouldn't it? Because even just last hitting they'll still be doing more damage and killing minions faster than they would die anyways. You'd also always have the static pressure of minion waves, since if you were freezing your own minions would reinforce sooner, dealing more damage and trying to naturally hit an equilibrium in the middle of the lane.

    So like, how is this something that is done to you instead of something that you allow by fucking up? It seems trivially easy to push the wave but impossible to hold it closer to your own tower for an extended period of time because you can't damage your own minions.

  • IvelliusIvellius Registered User regular
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    Freezing stuff

    I am 100% sure that there's a really basic guide to this somewhere but just to explain a few things. Yeah, you shouldn't call for your jungler to just stand around, but a "path toward top, take crab, stand ready to countergank" is in order if they can outfight the other jungler (and maybe even if not). But either way it's fairly brief, and as a jungler the XP you'd get from the wave makes it worth doing most of the time. Kled actually can AoE the wave with his Bear-Trap-on-a-Rope (mounted Q), and specifically Rek'sai can AoE with both burrowed and unburrowed Q to help a push without too much effort. Kled being low range doesn't help that much, but that guy was not using his skills optimally to shove into the tower.

    Nasus, though, is a champion that can freeze waves pretty easily because he can tank a lot of minion damage if he has to and then last-hit with Q, which will heal him thanks to his passive (it's built-in lifesteal, basically). Because of that you pretty much have to be able to harass him specifically off the wave, which is also a lot harder if you're behind. I hope that mostly makes sense; given the variety of champions and matchups, it's something that can change game-to-game.

    Me elsewhere:
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  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited April 9
    Ivellius wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    Freezing stuff

    I am 100% sure that there's a really basic guide to this somewhere but just to explain a few things. Yeah, you shouldn't call for your jungler to just stand around, but a "path toward top, take crab, stand ready to countergank" is in order if they can outfight the other jungler (and maybe even if not). But either way it's fairly brief, and as a jungler the XP you'd get from the wave makes it worth doing most of the time. Kled actually can AoE the wave with his Bear-Trap-on-a-Rope (mounted Q), and specifically Rek'sai can AoE with both burrowed and unburrowed Q to help a push without too much effort. Kled being low range doesn't help that much, but that guy was not using his skills optimally to shove into the tower.

    Nasus, though, is a champion that can freeze waves pretty easily because he can tank a lot of minion damage if he has to and then last-hit with Q, which will heal him thanks to his passive (it's built-in lifesteal, basically). Because of that you pretty much have to be able to harass him specifically off the wave, which is also a lot harder if you're behind. I hope that mostly makes sense; given the variety of champions and matchups, it's something that can change game-to-game.

    No it does make sense. I didn't think about burrowed Q, I figured if the top laner couldn't go in and melee things it would be too risky for Rek'sai to go in and start Qing things to push.

    Okay, I've also gone deep in the think tank on this and as I keep thinking on it I keep finding new nuances so I'm spoilering this for length.
    I get how it can be annoying if you let it happen, and I guess I understand how you could let them have just a mass of caster minions that would deal a fuckton of damage to your own waves even though you're reinforcing faster, but this still seems like a thing you let happen. Like how do you get into that scenario in the first place if you understand what's happening? The lanes should push back to a mid equilibrium without ANY input, so if you're both just last hitting, it should stay the same. I suppose the Nasus could run at you and punch you to take minion aggro and reduce the incoming wave on wave damage. But then it seems like you should have at least three options, the viability of these things will depend on your matchup of course:
    1. Don't let him hit you! Run away or use a cc on him.
    2. Fight/out trade him. Obviously this is very difficult due to his sustain, he'll bounce back from a lot of trades faster. On the other hand, maybe you should rush grievous wounds against a Nasus if you want to do trade?
    3. Push the wave and/or just leave to do other things. Nasus's win rate steadily increases until a huge spike at 45 minutes, and it doesn't even look like it's even until 20 minutes. So you need to get the fuck out there and take objectives and crush the enemies in a way that his whole team can't recover from before then.

    It also looks like Nasus has no positive matchups platinum+, and only a few negative ones: Darius (hemo probably counteracts his regen), Garen (also sustains well, has good wave clear and the silence gives him cover to do that?), and Sion (Shield? Maybe he just doesn't give a fuck and ints into tower anyways?) So that would seem to mean that if you're competent, every top laner should be able to outplay the Nasus in some way shape or form.

    All the stats I used came from his league of graphs page. I'm also doing most of this by headsim after reading an article about "what is a freeze" and "how to freeze/break freeze" so if any of this info is dumb, let me know. I also understand that actually doing the thing is different from knowing what to do, see: every smite I've ever fucked up on an objective.

    Just to sum up my actual main question since there are a lot of sub questions: If your lane is frozen not in your favor, is that because you fucked it up somewhere? Either you traded poorly, died, backed at the wrong time, or just managed your wave poorly. Does a freeze always start with you getting outplayed in some way? Okay okay another nuance, maybe you ganked mid or the enemy jungler but you're still making a calculation that whatever you're doing is worth the risk of them freezing your shit, and if that's a dire consequence then maybe you fucked up?

    As a person who literally never lanes, I find this shit fascinating and it's definitely important to understand at some point because it'll eventually be useful to understand the lane states and what state my laners want me to leave them in post gank (because right now I just generally push and run it under tower).

    ChaosHat on
  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    Fighting nasus without killing him actually helps him freeze. You attack him and his minions fight you while he walks back, letting his minions get the push. Then he makes sure you have 3 extra caster minions and can hold it forever. If you can't dive him that's a long time.

    Wave mechanics are super important top lane and it's probably the biggest barrier to improvement for top layers.

    IvelliusButtersDyvim Tvar
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    Moridin889 wrote: »
    Fighting nasus without killing him actually helps him freeze. You attack him and his minions fight you while he walks back, letting his minions get the push. Then he makes sure you have 3 extra caster minions and can hold it forever. If you can't dive him that's a long time.

    Wave mechanics are super important top lane and it's probably the biggest barrier to improvement for top layers.

    You know what, I did have that backwards. If he initiates on you, that pulls your damage onto him and now the wave will push since his minions are still hitting yours. But that still puts agency on the non-Nasus player since it's very easy to just not kill nasus? It's not like Nasus has a harassment skillshot to hit you with that could deal damage and not pull minion aggro.

  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    Another 2-1 day, another net +9 LP. The mmr stuff sucks.

    My low damage Diana has seemingly been cured by switching from inspiration as the backup tree to domination. It's only been a couple games but it seems kind of coincidental that I'm no longer flagged as being "low damage" by porofessor in the three games I've used it. I'm also interested in trying some other builds, like the Sunfire/Demonic's Embrace build but I haven't seen a comp yet where that would make sense.

  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    I'm now queuing as mostly support, for reasons I can't quite explain. Or rather, flex queue adc/mid, soloqueue support/adc. I think I'm just seeing so much garbage support play around me that I feel like I can do much better.

    I would feel so skilled if I were able to actually use Mikael's well. I did buy it on a winning game on Nami (every game on Nami feels SO difficult--I have to be maximally straining all the time because I'm so fragile and my shit does no damage but it does enough that I need to weave in autos, and the bubble is hard to land and am I trying to zone or catch people and who am I trying to protect with it, and am I going to run around the fight healing and will my heal be off cooldown, and the ult, am I going to use it to initiate, disengage, chase people, just somehow miss their whole team, not have it ready when it needs to be--it's all super stressful) and I managed to really quickly cleanse a TF gold card and get my adc out of a pickle and felt like a support god. But that was the only good use of it all game, so idk.

    My favorite support game recently was Riven, Sett, Ekko, Samira, Leona, vs who even cares, go in go in go in go in

    It was delightful and everyone was on the exact same page and we just ran over the enemy team. Samira and I came out of lane with at least 5-6 kills between us and it was really fun. Playing Leona with an adc who is willing to scrap is always a good time.

    Steam, LoL: credeiki
    Ivellius
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited April 11
    I hate the stupid ladder system so much. I am 3-3 over my last 6, which is fine, but I am -11 LP as a result, so I broke even and lost a game's worth of progress somehow.

    Also the last game I lost had a silver 2 Lucian duo queuing with a bronze IV Yuumi which seems crazy unfair. That doesn't really average into two high bronze players, it averages into that Lucian smoking the two botlaners and controlling the entire game from the start. I guess maybe it's my fault for using an app that looks that shit up but maybe solo queue should just be...solo queue? I dodged the next game because it just happened to have another Yuumi and Lucian and what are the odds? Why would I subject myself to that again?

    I try to keep in mind it shouldn't be about the LP, it's about making a sustainable process by which I do good enough to get the LP I need in the aggregate. It's just...very frustrating to have the work you put in going forward to be so easily undone. I wouldn't have a problem with the Lucian duo queue if I wasn't losing a game and a half for every loss. One imagines it would only get worse if I got higher in bronze 1, or god forbid silver.

    The really dumb thing is that the game thinks I should be low bronze 2, and now that I'm in low middle bronze 1, it's like "woah buddy let's pull you back down to earth." Like it's so implausible that I could be a single division better? I'd understand if I went from bronze to gold in the span of a couple weeks maybe something is going on, but on the other hand how hot of a winning streak would I need to go from bronze 2 to gold 4 in that span of time? At a certain point isn't it just...not a fluke?

    ChaosHat on
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Seriously, I'd be down for just nuking the current LP system and porting the WR system wholesale to PC League.

    Also, fuck yeah going 0-3 in your silver promotions. *facedesk*

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  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    I believe they do understand the LP system is frustrating, and they've made changes over time to make the gains and loss feel more stable and less arbitrary--but yeah, the way it feels like your MMR "thinks you should be somewhere" and it's really hard to get climbing again once you pass that point just really sucks.

    Especially in contrast to the beginning of the season, where, in order to give every player the sensation of climbing, they place you under your 'real' ranking, so you get used to fat LP gains, until one day suddenly it's like, nope, we're done here!

    At least you don't have promo series in between e.g. gold 3 and gold 2 any more, just to randomly pick a promo series for no particular reason and certainly not because I did it approximately a billion times per season every season as I bounced around in MMR

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    Munkus BeaverChaosHat
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited April 12
    PMAvers wrote: »
    Seriously, I'd be down for just nuking the current LP system and porting the WR system wholesale to PC League.

    Also, fuck yeah going 0-3 in your silver promotions. *facedesk*

    I want to give Riot some benefit of the doubt. I was thinking on it more and I think the devil's advocate take is "we don't want people going on a hot streak and moving up a division when they really weren't ready or vice versa" but that really seems like overthinking it. This system would also result in some people sitting right on the barrier of say, bronze 1/2 and they'll ping pong all over that line and that seems REALLY stressful.

    It's the vagueness of everything that really bothers me because right now I'm afraid that having a 50% win rate for an extended period means I'll eventually lose all the gains I made when really it means I should stay where I am. It's not really showing me what I have to do to plant my flag somewhere new/higher. How good do I need to be and for how long? I shouldn't be in a position where I'm going to gain less lp than I lose for an indefinite period of time. And I'm very plugged in and figured it out, so what about the tons of players who have no idea and will just quit?

    Ultimately, if ELO is going to be the thing I'm graded on, just show me it and base my ranking on that. "Gold is > x elo, plat > y" etc. Don't make me go to a third party site. Give me an accurate picture of my progress. It's just so funny that I dealt with the opposite when I was in smurf queue, gaining 20+ and losing 5 and that was a terrible experience, and now on the other side that I've reacclimated it's this. Or, when moving between divisions, make it a promo series and make that an opportunity to make my ELO gains permanent.

    I have a 66% win rate over my last 24! Just give me some credit, that seems like an incredible number of games to just get flukey on.

    tl;dr: It is frustrating to have a visible progression metric that doesn't actually matter as much as an invisible progression metric that they don't tell you how to improve.

    ChaosHat on
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    i mean the hidden metric is going to be pretty close to the lightly tweaked team elo stuff u see in ow, etc w/ some stuff for spotting cheeky smorfs

    its the same deal as always; win over the odds. win over the odds and u will go up. its that simple, even if its frustrating because ur trapped in a box with 5 enemies who can damage ur hp and 4 enemies who can damage ur brane

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    IvelliusDyvim Tvar
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    My MMR's still so stacked from hitting Gold IV on Lilia last season that my MF fangirl period has me going 8-12 over the last season and only losing a net of 1LP.

    Which, lmao.

  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    it's very funny that my jank ARAM MF build (liandries->manamune or vise versa) is starting to become meta on SR

    since full lethality is putting too many eggs in the ult basket, and crit requires an enemy team composition that won't immediately jump down your throat the moment you walk into AA range

    stick a permanent max health burn on them with E and still do Enough damage with ult (especially w/ 3rd item Grudge to slow them in it while shredding armor)

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    PenumbraIvellius
  • PenumbraPenumbra Registered User regular
    it's very funny that my jank ARAM MF build (liandries->manamune or vise versa) is starting to become meta on SR

    since full lethality is putting too many eggs in the ult basket, and crit requires an enemy team composition that won't immediately jump down your throat the moment you walk into AA range

    stick a permanent max health burn on them with E and still do Enough damage with ult (especially w/ 3rd item Grudge to slow them in it while shredding armor)

    Except that’s not a junk build on ARAM it’s the one I see most often unless MF is the only source of phys damage. Even then a lot of people start lianadries and then build ad. (Full AP MF also rips make it acid rain)

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  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    It's a build that makes sense on ARAM because it really leans into her caster aspects.

    It's less practical on the rift because like, unless your draft is absolute trash, you should have space to auto attack or do that big lethality ult.

  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    It's a build that makes sense on ARAM because it really leans into her caster aspects.

    It's less practical on the rift because like, unless your draft is absolute trash, you should have space to auto attack or do that big lethality ult.

    I mean there's comps that benefit from an independent ADC (damage supports weak to engage, dive supports weak to counterengage, etc) and this build lets MF fill that role well. It's not replacing the other builds as much as letting her work in other situations. And it's simply more forgiving than lethality, since you're not useless for over a minute if you hit the R button bad.

    This was mainly brought to my attention thanks to my friends' clash team, which features a Pyke main with permaroam-itis, if that explains anything.

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    IvelliusPenumbraAlbino BunnyMunkus Beaver
  • PenumbraPenumbra Registered User regular
    Those new skins look amazing. I wish I wasn’t trash on Kayle and Senna because they’re my favorites.

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  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    It's a build that makes sense on ARAM because it really leans into her caster aspects.

    It's less practical on the rift because like, unless your draft is absolute trash, you should have space to auto attack or do that big lethality ult.

    I mean there's comps that benefit from an independent ADC (damage supports weak to engage, dive supports weak to counterengage, etc) and this build lets MF fill that role well. It's not replacing the other builds as much as letting her work in other situations. And it's simply more forgiving than lethality, since you're not useless for over a minute if you hit the R button bad.

    This was mainly brought to my attention thanks to my friends' clash team, which features a Pyke main with permaroam-itis, if that explains anything.

    Yeah, that's fair.

    Though honestly MF feels reasonably independent once she has a single life steal item. Which can be real early in lane if you're going lethality. The ult to clear waves and reset dive timings along with her sheer "really? You think you out scale me here?" early game can do a lot.

    Like heck, I'm half an item behind Senna and she tries to duel me off of rotating to a drake, her shen at the drake realizes she's losing and ults her and she dies before the TP can even come in. All it cost is an exhaust.

    Other than a lack of spike mobility MF is pretty rad solo, most MF's I see are really bad at realizing how strong a defensive tool it is to recognize when they can't touch you for a second and just slam W to re-up your MS passive.

  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    Guys I'm happy to report that after a lot of time and effort, and just grinding out games. I've finally done it. I've broken through the barrier and finally gotten my reward. So to everyone out there stuck in ELO hell just remember you can do it as long as you have the right attitude.

    That's right: Honor level 3.

    In actual climbing news I'm 1-1 on the day, and I actually only lost as many LP as I gained because I couldn't go below b1 0LP!

    Munkus Beaver
  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    It's a build that makes sense on ARAM because it really leans into her caster aspects.

    It's less practical on the rift because like, unless your draft is absolute trash, you should have space to auto attack or do that big lethality ult.

    Eclipse procs on MF's E thanks to comet

    Albino Bunny
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I have reached a point where I am happy with the progress I've made and like the skill point I'm at.

    Granted, I need to learn a lot about the intricacies of the game (which I mainly do through osmosis by talking with my diamond/masters friends) and I can always improve until I'm MVP at worlds, but it's still nice.

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    TcheldorIvellius
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    I have reached a point where I am happy with the progress I've made and like the skill point I'm at.

    Granted, I need to learn a lot about the intricacies of the game (which I mainly do through osmosis by talking with my diamond/masters friends) and I can always improve until I'm MVP at worlds, but it's still nice.

    My actual target is gold. That seems like a reasonable place to be and then I get prizes. I mean, I know from experience that as you climb the mountain, the next step of the mountain doesn't look so bad but that's where I'm at now.

    Won the next two after my post yesterday, and decided 3-1 was a good place to stop. Tried a couple normals just to you know, keep practicing and grinding that battle pass. Tried a Wukong jungle to get a head start pre patch and wow, he's already pretty decent it seems. It feels like he does really good damage and the ult is very strong. I think he's a good candidate for an AD Diana type.

    ChaosHat on
    Ivellius
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Finally putting games on Lilia after playing my first two weeks of ranked on Miss Fortune feels like taking training weights off in martial arts, I presume:

    https://blitz.gg/lol/match/euw1/Eep A Deer/5822719295

    Also shout outs to Fiddlesticks who, getting absolutely bodied, was mostly just chill and having a good time. He even added me after. The church of Deer Grows.

    The Escape Goat
  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    I have reached a point where I am happy with the progress I've made and like the skill point I'm at.

    Granted, I need to learn a lot about the intricacies of the game (which I mainly do through osmosis by talking with my diamond/masters friends) and I can always improve until I'm MVP at worlds, but it's still nice.

    Oh god I'm trying to play seriously again and I'm so dissatisfied with where I'm at

    It's become so clear to me that I make frequent errors in judgment that I recognize a split second later -- or that I recognize before, and even might literally say out loud 'I shouldn't do this' -- that end up consistently costing me games that I otherwise should win

    I need more...focus? concentration? An actual brain, maybe?

    I'm hoping that I'm still just brushing off cobwebs and that as I play more seriously more regularly I will build decent habits--but I'm super frustrated at my skill level right now, because I can often see what's going wrong but can't fix it.

    Steam, LoL: credeiki
  • pyromaniac221pyromaniac221 this just might be an interestin YTRegistered User regular
    Stay patient and you'll get back to where you were just through practice reps. I take pretty frequent breaks of several months and come back to get dominated for a few weeks at an entire division below my "real" skill level. It feels bad, but just trust that your reflexes will reacclimate. The light just sort of goes on one day.

    psn tooaware, friend code SW-4760-0062-3248 it me
    IvelliusMunkus Beaver
  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    Stay patient and you'll get back to where you were just through practice reps. I take pretty frequent breaks of several months and come back to get dominated for a few weeks at an entire division below my "real" skill level. It feels bad, but just trust that your reflexes will reacclimate. The light just sort of goes on one day.

    I hope so!

    I played Zyra to plat in *checks op.gg* 2019, and, in the time since, I've definitely not been able to get back there--but I also learned an entire new lane (mid), and then decided to go back to maining adc instead of support (and, arguably, I was never a plat ADC, although when I look at 2019 my top 3 champions were Jhin, Zyra, and Leona, so maybe a plat Jhin). So a lot of my recent progress and growth as a player has probably been as a midlaner, although it is having some support knock-on benefits when I play Lux, and in theory it should make me better at understanding the overall game, since I play a roaming midlane which one assumes means understanding the game state. In theory.

    I'm currently in silver 1 this season and climbing--I still feel generally under my true skill level but I'm not carrying every game, and also sometimes I'm just inting to Samira lanes even though I fucking know I can't get in her face under certain conditions. But then I do anyway because ???? why ???? and then I die, obviously.

    Yeah, I have to wait for the light to come back on and/or develop more focus. I also might want to start dodging obviously doomed teamcomps again, because I'm right about that more often than not, and it's demoralizing to play one of those.

    Steam, LoL: credeiki
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    I just got done trying to bother with ADC in ranked and honestly climbing in that role seems exhausting. You gotta play consistently with no slip ups vs a bunch of dive and you gotta do it across a bunch of games because some will just be unwinnable based on things outside your agency.

  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    edited April 14
    I just got done trying to bother with ADC in ranked and honestly climbing in that role seems exhausting. You gotta play consistently with no slip ups vs a bunch of dive and you gotta do it across a bunch of games because some will just be unwinnable based on things outside your agency.

    More than the dive, right now my issue with adc is:

    I win lane, or even win lane by a lot

    Top lane loses lane vs some motherfucker with hullbreaker

    At some point in the game, toplane is dead or has given up on stopping the splitpush

    I go to stop the split and get murdered under tower by someone 3 levels up on me, because regardless of how fed I am, the toplaner has sololane levels and has been shitting on my teammate all game

    I hate it! As support, I can sometimes help with the problem by going to help toplane either by myself or with jg and shutting down the split. As adc, I can’t do this because I either lack the lockdown to keep them from just running, or because it’s not good for me and top to be in the same lane splitting cs and xp.

    So it’s like…either I just let the splitpusher get into our base, or I die trying to stop them. It sucks! I ban Tryndamere every game now but he’s just not the only problem there (Yorick and Garen are the big other ones, though not the only ones).

    I should say, this is a problem specifically with splitpushing. It’s scary when fed Darius comes to a teamfight, but I accept that it is my job to have good positioning and kite back. It’s the macro/hullbreaker stuff that I cannot handle.

    credeiki on
    Steam, LoL: credeiki
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 14
    The prevalence of dive carries lately have led me to value exhaust over ignite unless they have an enchanter or someone with a LOT of healing in their kit bot lane. Exhaust is the difference between the D1 Qiyara from blowing up the team and getting blown up.

    Edit and yeah, I would say that the most impactful role is usually JNG followed by top, but top becomes more important if they *checks notes* builds hull breaker.

    Hullbreaker is fucking toxic.

    Munkus Beaver on
    nr2rekwxi4nc.png
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    The prevalence of dive carries lately have led me to value exhaust over ignite unless they have an enchanter or someone with a LOT of healing in their kit bot lane. Exhaust is the difference between the D1 Qiyara from blowing up the team and getting blown up.

    Edit and yeah, I would say that the most impactful role is usually JNG followed by top, but top becomes more important if they *checks notes* builds hull breaker.

    Hullbreaker is fucking toxic.

    Top? Top is such an island, mid has way more roam potential and can exert more pressure on objectives because of that.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    It’s the fact hat top is an island that makes it important. Hullbreaker tryn, Sion, garen, etc all can win games for their team while the rest of the team loses hard.

    30 to 10? Sion don’t care. Sion taking your core

    nr2rekwxi4nc.png
    credeikiMoridin889
  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    It’s the fact hat top is an island that makes it important. Hullbreaker tryn, Sion, garen, etc all can win games for their team while the rest of the team loses hard.

    30 to 10? Sion don’t care. Sion taking your core

    Yeah, I played more and more games recently where top lane only ever splits.

    Sometimes this absolutely loses the game because the rest of the team is 4v5 constantly; often it wins. It is *not fun* to play with or against and I cannot understand why riot would create an item designed to encourage this behavior

    I hate it! (and I should say—I have no interest in playing toplane and deploying this strategy myself to win games. It doesn’t look fun to play, either, and tbh I just don’t know toplane well)

    Steam, LoL: credeiki
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Top lane is my secondary role, and I kinda hate it because the lane is almost entirely CP dependent…if you are trying to play the lane normally.

    I get filled, I go Urgot, quick build Tiamat and Hullbreaker, and watch as I slowly take every inhib.

    nr2rekwxi4nc.png
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    I'd be interested to see what would happen if you swapped dragon and baron pits. If dragon just being up/relevant more often would convert it into being less of an island. You'd think bot would always have a certain gravity just because it's two players so ganking is kind of already more beneficial there. Higher odds of double/triple kill, more gold share, etc.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    I'd be interested to see what would happen if you swapped dragon and baron pits. If dragon just being up/relevant more often would convert it into being less of an island. You'd think bot would always have a certain gravity just because it's two players so ganking is kind of already more beneficial there. Higher odds of double/triple kill, more gold share, etc.

    Then bot goes top and top goes bot. Bot is bot because of the early game dragon pressure.

    nr2rekwxi4nc.png
    IvelliusMoridin889
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    I'd be interested to see what would happen if you swapped dragon and baron pits. If dragon just being up/relevant more often would convert it into being less of an island. You'd think bot would always have a certain gravity just because it's two players so ganking is kind of already more beneficial there. Higher odds of double/triple kill, more gold share, etc.

    Then bot goes top and top goes bot. Bot is bot because of the early game dragon pressure.

    Oh duh. Maybe alternate dragon spawn locations? Probably just rotate for it anyways then though.

    Just had maybe my best singular moment in league ever? So three of us just died, it's me and Ezreal and now they're going to baron. So I just stand on the outside of the pit and toss a ward in. The Nocturne and Zac are at like...ten percent health. So, I'm Diana, fuck it. Q baron, E in. Hit ult, Zhonya's. Boom boom. Smite the baron, take that too. Galio rezzes and does his thing. We chase down two others.

    uouso4nvzhkk.png

    You can see the exact moment when this happened. A 3k gold swing in our favor with Baron? That probably sealed the game for us, and it would have been better if they didn't overstay and die like morons.

    I also had 85% KP and the most damage dealt on either team. So yeah, was a pretty decent way to gain 14 lp.

    credeikiIvelliusPenumbra
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