I can see your point (and I am enjoying the game), but imagine how Mario fans would feel if there hadn't been a Mario game in a decade, and then when one came, it was Mario Kart, instead of a "real" Mario game...and there was the very real danger of never seeing another proper Mario game.
Understandable. Let's hope that Shadowrun 360 garners enough interest for an RPG proper.
Anyone else having issues with server disconnects? The last couple of games I've played I've been disconnected from the server in the middle of a match.
Yeah, last night I wasn't able to play much because of...
. They're easier to kill
Careful. I took out a minigun troll with teleport and the pistol last night. ;-)
Also, BOPd
What about BOTS? Don't they have generic Bot 1, Bot 2, names? I'm gonna be disappointed if I've been playing half bots and half humans.
I could give a fuck if there was singleplayer or not. Even if it had singleplayer, I probably wouldn't play it for more then an hour just to get my feet wet for some online action.
So I just read the IGN review. I really want to punch something.
It made me remember why I listen to the opinion of fellow forumers rather than so called "professional" drivel.
The "second take" is a fucking joke. "OMG NO SINGLE PLAYER OMG OMG"
To be fair charging 60 bucks for an online multiplayer only game where most of the users don't have the ability to host their own servers (Can you have your own servers with the PC version? Are there any?), and the gametypes are just CTF, deathmatch or a slight variation is pretty lame. This game looks neat, but seems to be a waste of an IP, and not really all that much different from CS. Except for setting and magic/tech of course. The gameplay seems pretty familiar.
As a PC gamer this game gets a solid "meh." I can see why 360 owners would be all over a good multiplayer game though. But the neutered mouse/keyboad controls, and the large cost of a Vista upgrade doesn't seem worth it for this game. Does this game even use DX10? It looks nice, but not amazing or anything. I was looking forward to possibly playing this when I first heard about it though. However, it doesn't spark much interest with Quake Wars and TF2 on the horizon.
So I just read the IGN review. I really want to punch something.
It made me remember why I listen to the opinion of fellow forumers rather than so called "professional" drivel.
The "second take" is a fucking joke. "OMG NO SINGLE PLAYER OMG OMG"
I particularly liked how they said the game didn't look good.
Part of the reason I like the game is that it doesn't have any of that superfluous nonsense thrown in. Turn on, tune in, and blast a mother fucker.
As far as lack of options, I fully expect downloadable content. It better be free, though.
Don't kid yourself its Microsoft. They charge you for the privilege of buying things from them and having a friends list. Is this game moddable at all? Does it have a map editor? I'm guessing no.
I, for one, applaud their multiplayer-only stance. There's certainly a market for online only games. Why bother with single-player? People wanted online action and that's what they got. Development time spent on balancing abilities and weapons instead of a watered-down single player campaign.
I was looking forward to possibly playing this when I first heard about it though. However, it doesn't spark much interest with Quake Wars and TF2 on the horizon.
I know TF2 is a good half year away, but when is Quake Wars due out? I'm certainly pumped for both of these games and Shadowrun is holding me over.
So I just read the IGN review. I really want to punch something.
It made me remember why I listen to the opinion of fellow forumers rather than so called "professional" drivel.
The "second take" is a fucking joke. "OMG NO SINGLE PLAYER OMG OMG"
To be fair charging 60 bucks for an online multiplayer only game where most of the users don't have the ability to host their own servers (Can you have your own servers with the PC version? Are there any?), and the gametypes are just CTF, deathmatch or a slight variation is pretty lame. This game looks neat, but seems to be a waste of an IP, and not really all that much different from CS. Except for setting and magic/tech of course. The gameplay seems pretty familiar.
As a PC gamer this game gets a solid "meh." I can see why 360 owners would be all over a good multiplayer game though. But the neutered mouse/keyboad controls, and the large cost of a Vista upgrade doesn't seem worth it for this game. Does this game even use DX10? It looks nice, but not amazing or anything. I was looking forward to possibly playing this when I first heard about it though. However, it doesn't spark much interest with Quake Wars and TF2 on the horizon.
I completely agree. I LOVE this game, and have been having some of the most fun I had online. I don't regret my purchase at all.
I do feel guilty though of supporting the practice of buying bare bone games at full price. I think the complaint that many games out there offer full single player and multi player experiences for the same price is certainly a valid one.
So I just read the IGN review. I really want to punch something.
It made me remember why I listen to the opinion of fellow forumers rather than so called "professional" drivel.
The "second take" is a fucking joke. "OMG NO SINGLE PLAYER OMG OMG"
To be fair charging 60 bucks for an online multiplayer only game where most of the users don't have the ability to host their own servers (Can you have your own servers with the PC version? Are there any?), and the gametypes are just CTF, deathmatch or a slight variation is pretty lame. This game looks neat, but seems to be a waste of an IP, and not really all that much different from CS. Except for setting and magic/tech of course. The gameplay seems pretty familiar.
As a PC gamer this game gets a solid "meh." I can see why 360 owners would be all over a good multiplayer game though. But the neutered mouse/keyboad controls, and the large cost of a Vista upgrade doesn't seem worth it for this game. Does this game even use DX10? It looks nice, but not amazing or anything. I was looking forward to possibly playing this when I first heard about it though. However, it doesn't spark much interest with Quake Wars and TF2 on the horizon.
Initially, I would have thought the opposite. PC gamers are used to online multiplayer-only games, with games like Q3 Arena and UT. However, I think the Vista and steep system requirements pretty much kills it for PC gamers since, as you point out, it's not that much greater than other shooters (especially when you consider PC gamers have the luxury of playing with all sorts of mods).
Thanks to where I work, I have both the PC and 360 copies of the game. As a PC gamer at heart, I was initially going to give away my 360 copy, but then I found out that not even my bloody work computer (which is a beast, minus the video card) could run Shadowrun adequately. Surprisingly though, the 360 controls work pretty well, so I've essentially flip-flopped which version I'll be primarily playing with.
Don't kid yourself its Microsoft. They charge you for the privilege of buying things from them and having a friends list. Is this game moddable at all? Does it have a map editor? I'm guessing no.
I should point out that Live Marketplace and Friends list are free. It's a little known fact but the Silver membership (free) does give you access to all of that, as well as achievements. The thing you don't get is actual online multiplayer, which obviously screws you over in a game like Shadowrun, unless you feel like playing with bots all day.
I'm looking at the back of the PC box, and I don't think it has a map editor or is moddable. It doesn't surprise me, frankly, and with FASA all but gone, sadly I don't think we'll ever get those features.
right i've decided to buy this. exams are over on thursday, so i'll get it then. have to admit i'm not great at FPS but it just looks too good. how bad are the connection issues though because i've had problems in the past
I, for one, applaud their multiplayer-only stance. There's certainly a market for online only games. Why bother with single-player? People wanted online action and that's what they got. Development time spent on balancing abilities and weapons instead of a watered-down single player campaign.
I think the $60 is the hard part for people to swallow. I'm looking forward to tomorrow's demo but probably still wouldn't grab this one until it's tossed through the discount bins a few times. Unless I am blow away tomorrow. Then who knows?
I, for one, applaud their multiplayer-only stance. There's certainly a market for online only games. Why bother with single-player? People wanted online action and that's what they got. Development time spent on balancing abilities and weapons instead of a watered-down single player campaign.
I was looking forward to possibly playing this when I first heard about it though. However, it doesn't spark much interest with Quake Wars and TF2 on the horizon.
I know TF2 is a good half year away, but when is Quake Wars due out? I'm certainly pumped for both of these games and Shadowrun is holding me over.
Half a year? I thought they were shooting for Septemberish for Episode: 2. Thats not quite half a year, and Quake Wars just got bumped back. A lot of retailers and stuff had it pegged for June, but Splash Damage and id never said anything about a release date. From what I read they are shooting for September as well, but are still claiming "when its done."
Also I forgot to mention Left4Dead. That one should be out this summer, I think, and it looks totally badass. 2007 is a good year for shooters.
I honestly hope that this spawns a whole series of multiplayer-only Shadowrun FPS games (I'd definitely play a single player RPG in this series, but I like the multiplayer shooter idea way more).
FYI, there is a forum at the official website where you can discuss past and the future of Shadowrun.
Take whatever you want from that.
EDIT
From the official forum:
We've announced that we're doing updates. The first one's in the works now. It includes a lot of stuff that we wanted to get in for the shipping product but just couldn't due to time. The second one will come out a while after we've had time to look at gameplay in the wild. We tested the game pretty thoroughly - try playing twice a day for a couple years - but we're not naive enough to think we caught everything. We'll be playing with folks online, listening to feedback, monitoring these and other boards, and making any adjustments necessary to keep the game fun and fair.
Updates are free. Everyone must take them them upon starting Shadowrun while logged into LIVE. We haven't talked about DLC yet. When we have notes on the content of the updates, we'll post here.
There's possibly a distinction between Updates and DLC, but hopefully not and hopefully both will be free.
I think the $60 is the hard part for people to swallow. I'm looking forward to tomorrow's demo but probably still wouldn't grab this one until it's tossed through the discount bins a few times. Unless I am blow away tomorrow. Then who knows?
What I'm saying is: Why isn't a multi-player only game worth 60$? Or rather: Why is a single player game worth 60$ but a multi-player one isn't? I would rather have a multi-player game. Obviously, something like Gears of War is the ideal product -- good on both halves -- but Shadowrun isn't the first game to only offer 1/2 of this equation.
Half a year? I thought they were shooting for Septemberish for Episode: 2. Thats not quite half a year, and Quake Wars just got bumped back. A lot of retailers and stuff had it pegged for June, but Splash Damage and id never said anything about a release date. From what I read they are shooting for September as well, but are still claiming "when its done."
Last I heard on Episode 2 was October 2007 -- roughly 4-5 months away -- somewhat close to half a year.
And bleh, ID never announces release dates; bastards!
Also I forgot to mention Left4Dead. That one should be out this summer, I think, and it looks totally badass. 2007 is a good year for shooters.
What I'm saying is: Why isn't a multi-player only game worth 60$? Or rather: Why is a single player game worth 60$ but a multi-player one isn't? I would rather have a multi-player game. Obviously, something like Gears of War is the ideal product -- good on both halves -- but Shadowrun isn't the first game to only offer 1/2 of this equation.
PC gamers are arguably used to this, thanks to games like Q3 Arena and the UT series. Console gamers, not so much. Heck, online multiplayer is still relatively a "new thing" to many console gamers, so it's understandable why many still have this "What, no single-player and its still full price? Screw it, I'm going back to Halo" mentality.
I also don't understand people saying it isn't worth the money since it is multiplayer only.
People will pay (and horrendously praise) a game like Final Fantasy 12, which costs 50 dollars, and on average gives maybe 50 hours of gameplay time?
And I've already played Shadowrun online for more than 30 hours. And I bet I'll be playing it for months.
I played Counter-Strike competitively for over 7 years. I had it the day the mod was released, and only paid $50 for Half-Life. I never played the single player portion of Half-Life until HL source.
If I had to go back in time, I'd say Counter-Strike was probably worth $5,000.00 or more based on the time I spent playing it and the fun I got out of it. Multiplayer games are good, and are definitely worth their money.
Shadowrun is MORE than worth $60.00 if you ask me, but I guess I'm in the minority.
Actually, doing the math, and this will sound retarded, but think about it...
I can guarantee I've played Counter-Strike more than 8,000 hours since I got it. Let's say the average single player game or whatever is 50 hours long (it's not, thats actually VERY long but hey)
8000 / 50 = approx 160 single player games worth of time.
If those games were all worth 50 bucks, thats over 8 grand worth of value spent on one 50 dollar multiplayer game.
I think the $60 is the hard part for people to swallow. I'm looking forward to tomorrow's demo but probably still wouldn't grab this one until it's tossed through the discount bins a few times. Unless I am blow away tomorrow. Then who knows?
What I'm saying is: Why isn't a multi-player only game worth 60$? Or rather: Why is a single player game worth 60$ but a multi-player one isn't? I would rather have a multi-player game. Obviously, something like Gears of War is the ideal product -- good on both halves -- but Shadowrun isn't the first game to only offer 1/2 of this equation.
I think it has a lot to do with perceived value from a consumer standpoint. A strong single player campaign requires an engaging story, dialogue, characters, more varied character models, and levels that work together to help tell the story. A multiplayer game requires good balance and good level design, but basically no story at all. The devs also don't have to come up with any "content" as in story, level progression or things like that. All the content is generated by the players.
I'm not saying balancing a multiplayer game is easy, or of any less value, but it seems that many companies put out decent single player games with a tacked on multiplayer. If FASFA would have done the opposite and made a half decent single player game, but an awesome multiplayer component, it would have felt like a better package.
Also PC gamers have become a bit spoiled when it comes to multiplayer. While HL:1's multiplayer deathmatch wasn't exactly a super exciting it gave a good basis for the community to build on. CS was no worse off for not having a single player component, but it was also totally free and made by "amateur" programmers. Same thing with Team Fortress. Its kind of a, "see we can make a good multiplayer game why can't you?" thing.
A lot of devs like Valve have embraced this and said, "Sure make us some multiplayer games. We might even give you a job and access to all our bitches." They don't charge full price for these games, because they do feel like only half a game, no less fun, but just one half of what has traditionally been a more complete package. Although MS obviously doesn't see it this way.
But when you compare what they are putting in the Episode:2 box for less money, you gotta wonder where the extra cost of SR comes from.
What I'm saying is: Why isn't a multi-player only game worth 60$? Or rather: Why is a single player game worth 60$ but a multi-player one isn't? I would rather have a multi-player game. Obviously, something like Gears of War is the ideal product -- good on both halves -- but Shadowrun isn't the first game to only offer 1/2 of this equation.
PC gamers are arguably used to this, thanks to games like Q3 Arena and the UT series. Console gamers, not so much. Heck, online multiplayer is still relatively a "new thing" to many console gamers, so it's understandable why many still have this "What, no single-player and its still full price? Screw it, I'm going back to Halo" mentality.
Look at Sony though. They're putting up what they're hyping as two, full quality, multi player games up for download at a reduced price. And they're also releasing boxed versions, with added stuff to make up for the rise of cost.
What I'm saying is: Why isn't a multi-player only game worth 60$? Or rather: Why is a single player game worth 60$ but a multi-player one isn't? I would rather have a multi-player game. Obviously, something like Gears of War is the ideal product -- good on both halves -- but Shadowrun isn't the first game to only offer 1/2 of this equation.
PC gamers are arguably used to this, thanks to games like Q3 Arena and the UT series. Console gamers, not so much. Heck, online multiplayer is still relatively a "new thing" to many console gamers, so it's understandable why many still have this "What, no single-player and its still full price? Screw it, I'm going back to Halo" mentality.
Look at Sony though. They're putting up what they're hyping as two, full quality, multi player games up for download at a reduced price. And they're also releasing boxed versions, with added stuff to make up for the rise of cost.
I think what Sony's doing is ultimately the right idea in terms of pricing, but obviously they have the benefit of releasing after Shadowrun. If somehow SR sells really well, then I would not be surprised at all if they manipulated the pricing of Warhawk and SOCOM somehow.
Basically, it comes down to experimentation. From what I can recall, there hasn't been a "multiplayer only" title ever released for a console, well at least not as big as Shadowrun, Warhawk, or SOCOM. While I personally think $60 is too high, you can see that it's by no means absurd, given past history with PC games and also the responses of people on this board.
Of course cheaper is always better for consumers. However business-wise, dropping price by 33% ($60 down to $40) means you have to generate 33% more sales. If MS didn't think that was going to happen, especially given all the criticisms the title has gone through ("misuse" of the Shadowrun IP, etc.), then it probably made sense for them to keep it at $60. Similarly, if Sony thinks it can generate 33% more revenue by releasing Warhawk and SOCOM at $40, then that's an excellent idea for them too.
been looking for a reason to join the PA boards and you guys did it with this thread. I've had the game for a week now (almost) sitting in a package next to my 360. Been debating whether to bring the game back after the lukewarm reviews. Everything I read seemed like it'd be a game I'd enjoy, but the reviews said otherwise.
Glad I checked out the thread...cracking it open now to run the tutorials...
been looking for a reason to join the PA boards and you guys did it with this thread. I've had the game for a week now (almost) sitting in a package next to my 360. Been debating whether to bring the game back after the lukewarm reviews. Everything I read seemed like it'd be a game I'd enjoy, but the reviews said otherwise.
Glad I checked out the thread...cracking it open now to run the tutorials...
Gamertag = UsChickens
If you like multiplayer games, you'll like this. Reviewers are just sour because it's strictly multiplayer. Hell, PCs have been making games that are strictly multiplayer for years. It's about time the consoles caught up.
The only fear I had is being somewhat alleviated, in that a multiplayer title is only good as long as there is a multiplayer community. If Shadowrun is all but abandoned when, say, Halo 3 comes along... However, the fun I've been having with it makes it worth buying even if only for the time between here and then.
I can see why and how this game will be fun once I head online. I've never played Tribes or CS (shocked? yes I know :P) so the whole buying during rounds thing is completely new for me. I'll probably be online later tonight for a match or two to see how much I'll get slaughtered. So far, I'm liking Troll Defenders
I can see why and how this game will be fun once I head online. I've never played Tribes or CS (shocked? yes I know :P) so the whole buying during rounds thing is completely new for me. I'll probably be online later tonight for a match or two to see how much I'll get slaughtered. So far, I'm liking Troll Defenders
Trolls are very new player friendly, and don't worry, you don't have to be only a defender. Just remember, if you have a minigun, please have smartlink. If you have smartlink, please don't forget to toggle it off until you are spinning up to fire.
Guys, I want to play some games. Log on so we can kill other people, because right now, the people that are on now don't buy rez because it doesn't damage anything.
Help me.
I can see why and how this game will be fun once I head online. I've never played Tribes or CS (shocked? yes I know :P) so the whole buying during rounds thing is completely new for me. I'll probably be online later tonight for a match or two to see how much I'll get slaughtered. So far, I'm liking Troll Defenders
Trolls are very new player friendly, and don't worry, you don't have to be only a defender. Just remember, if you have a minigun, please have smartlink. If you have smartlink, please don't forget to toggle it off until you are spinning up to fire.
Yeah, I've read in the thread about turning on and off smartlink. As for a defender roll, it's just a natch for me in most games, whether MMOs or FPS. Plus there's never enough support experts
I can see why and how this game will be fun once I head online. I've never played Tribes or CS (shocked? yes I know :P) so the whole buying during rounds thing is completely new for me. I'll probably be online later tonight for a match or two to see how much I'll get slaughtered. So far, I'm liking Troll Defenders
Trolls are very new player friendly, and don't worry, you don't have to be only a defender. Just remember, if you have a minigun, please have smartlink. If you have smartlink, please don't forget to toggle it off until you are spinning up to fire.
Yeah, I've read in the thread about turning on and off smartlink. As for a defender roll, it's just a natch for me in most games, whether MMOs or FPS. Plus there's never enough support experts
Then you are a good man and I will add you to my friend's list next time I'm online.
I can see why and how this game will be fun once I head online. I've never played Tribes or CS (shocked? yes I know :P) so the whole buying during rounds thing is completely new for me. I'll probably be online later tonight for a match or two to see how much I'll get slaughtered. So far, I'm liking Troll Defenders
Trolls are very new player friendly, and don't worry, you don't have to be only a defender. Just remember, if you have a minigun, please have smartlink. If you have smartlink, please don't forget to toggle it off until you are spinning up to fire.
Yeah, I've read in the thread about turning on and off smartlink. As for a defender roll, it's just a natch for me in most games, whether MMOs or FPS. Plus there's never enough support experts
Then you are a good man and I will add you to my friend's list next time I'm online.
Just make sure you give me some time to learn the ropes and all will be fine.
I'm looking for more people to bump up my friends list who have this game. Shoot me a request if you're also looking for more people to party up with. Would love to get a full private game.
So I just played my first game of Shadowrun on live. First round I sucked cause I didn't buy my stuff fast enough and was killed in the menu. Next round I kill most of the other team. Next round I kill a bunch, ressurect most of my team too, and now i'm the top player on my team! Next round I pick up a katana, kill 4 dudes with it and the SMG, accidently kill one of my teammates with one slash while we're both slashing a dead body, am treated to "OMG POLAGO IS A TEAM KILLING LITTLE BITCH" despite being the best and most helpful player on team, am berated for 2 minutes straight and then get promptly kicked from the game.
Ok. I took some time to update the list of folks who are playing this.
PA Shadowrun Gamertags
===============================
life3::stuffwell
robothero::rob0ther0
BaronVonSnakPak::Baronskatenbass
Tw4win::KobeBlackcat
brynstar::Xander51
Kyougu::Brownchiclets
Vincent Grayson::Vincent Grayson
Bamelin::Bamelin
GroovyMr1337::GroovyMr1337
Spruchy::Spruchy86
Varega::Varega
Trevor Goodchild::Liake
YerMum:: Pugilation
Warder808::Rezin8r
exist::exist347
djklay::djklay
GroovyMr1337::GroovyMr1337
Polago:: Polago
Deamon_Aconis:: PJStelford
Snowbird:: PaShteamRoller
Algertman::Algertman
Aoi::Kirin
Vampire_Goldish::VampireGoldfish
GrimmyTOA::Brittledeer
DevoutlyApathetic::Quippish
BloodyRoarXX:: PABloodyroarXX
Sleep::Sheeeeeeep
ashdragon::ashdrake
Naked Ninja::Implementor
Tw4win::KobeBlackcat
Kyougu::Brownchiclets
Saint Justice::Saint Justice
Nocren::Nocren v2
Shuklak::Mecha Shiva 0
Valdemiro::SIR MO PAIN
krylon666::krylon666
JCRooks::JCRooks
Hlubocky::BrianReturns
Swift::Nexx360
Hypodrmage::Hypo D
PolaGo:: Polago
Danners::UsChickens
Varega::Varega
Xilasrn::blinke
===============================
I hope to see you all soon. I hope the original poster can put this in the first post.
Posts
Understandable. Let's hope that Shadowrun 360 garners enough interest for an RPG proper.
Yeah, last night I wasn't able to play much because of...
Careful. I took out a minigun troll with teleport and the pistol last night. ;-)
Also, BOPd
What about BOTS? Don't they have generic Bot 1, Bot 2, names? I'm gonna be disappointed if I've been playing half bots and half humans.
It made me remember why I listen to the opinion of fellow forumers rather than so called "professional" drivel.
The "second take" is a fucking joke. "OMG NO SINGLE PLAYER OMG OMG"
To be fair charging 60 bucks for an online multiplayer only game where most of the users don't have the ability to host their own servers (Can you have your own servers with the PC version? Are there any?), and the gametypes are just CTF, deathmatch or a slight variation is pretty lame. This game looks neat, but seems to be a waste of an IP, and not really all that much different from CS. Except for setting and magic/tech of course. The gameplay seems pretty familiar.
As a PC gamer this game gets a solid "meh." I can see why 360 owners would be all over a good multiplayer game though. But the neutered mouse/keyboad controls, and the large cost of a Vista upgrade doesn't seem worth it for this game. Does this game even use DX10? It looks nice, but not amazing or anything. I was looking forward to possibly playing this when I first heard about it though. However, it doesn't spark much interest with Quake Wars and TF2 on the horizon.
I particularly liked how they said the game didn't look good.
Part of the reason I like the game is that it doesn't have any of that superfluous nonsense thrown in. Turn on, tune in, and blast a mother fucker.
As far as lack of options, I fully expect downloadable content. It better be free, though.
Don't kid yourself its Microsoft. They charge you for the privilege of buying things from them and having a friends list. Is this game moddable at all? Does it have a map editor? I'm guessing no.
I know TF2 is a good half year away, but when is Quake Wars due out? I'm certainly pumped for both of these games and Shadowrun is holding me over.
I completely agree. I LOVE this game, and have been having some of the most fun I had online. I don't regret my purchase at all.
I do feel guilty though of supporting the practice of buying bare bone games at full price. I think the complaint that many games out there offer full single player and multi player experiences for the same price is certainly a valid one.
Initially, I would have thought the opposite. PC gamers are used to online multiplayer-only games, with games like Q3 Arena and UT. However, I think the Vista and steep system requirements pretty much kills it for PC gamers since, as you point out, it's not that much greater than other shooters (especially when you consider PC gamers have the luxury of playing with all sorts of mods).
Thanks to where I work, I have both the PC and 360 copies of the game. As a PC gamer at heart, I was initially going to give away my 360 copy, but then I found out that not even my bloody work computer (which is a beast, minus the video card) could run Shadowrun adequately. Surprisingly though, the 360 controls work pretty well, so I've essentially flip-flopped which version I'll be primarily playing with.
I should point out that Live Marketplace and Friends list are free. It's a little known fact but the Silver membership (free) does give you access to all of that, as well as achievements. The thing you don't get is actual online multiplayer, which obviously screws you over in a game like Shadowrun, unless you feel like playing with bots all day.
I'm looking at the back of the PC box, and I don't think it has a map editor or is moddable. It doesn't surprise me, frankly, and with FASA all but gone, sadly I don't think we'll ever get those features.
- Don't add me, I'm at/near the friend limit
Steam: JC_Rooks
Twitter: http://twitter.com/JiunweiC
I work on this: http://www.xbox.com
I think the $60 is the hard part for people to swallow. I'm looking forward to tomorrow's demo but probably still wouldn't grab this one until it's tossed through the discount bins a few times. Unless I am blow away tomorrow. Then who knows?
PokeCode: 3952 3495 1748
Half a year? I thought they were shooting for Septemberish for Episode: 2. Thats not quite half a year, and Quake Wars just got bumped back. A lot of retailers and stuff had it pegged for June, but Splash Damage and id never said anything about a release date. From what I read they are shooting for September as well, but are still claiming "when its done."
Also I forgot to mention Left4Dead. That one should be out this summer, I think, and it looks totally badass. 2007 is a good year for shooters.
Take whatever you want from that.
EDIT
From the official forum:
There's possibly a distinction between Updates and DLC, but hopefully not and hopefully both will be free.
What I'm saying is: Why isn't a multi-player only game worth 60$? Or rather: Why is a single player game worth 60$ but a multi-player one isn't? I would rather have a multi-player game. Obviously, something like Gears of War is the ideal product -- good on both halves -- but Shadowrun isn't the first game to only offer 1/2 of this equation.
Last I heard on Episode 2 was October 2007 -- roughly 4-5 months away -- somewhat close to half a year.
And bleh, ID never announces release dates; bastards!
Indeed, that does look pretty sweet.
PC gamers are arguably used to this, thanks to games like Q3 Arena and the UT series. Console gamers, not so much. Heck, online multiplayer is still relatively a "new thing" to many console gamers, so it's understandable why many still have this "What, no single-player and its still full price? Screw it, I'm going back to Halo" mentality.
- Don't add me, I'm at/near the friend limit
Steam: JC_Rooks
Twitter: http://twitter.com/JiunweiC
I work on this: http://www.xbox.com
People will pay (and horrendously praise) a game like Final Fantasy 12, which costs 50 dollars, and on average gives maybe 50 hours of gameplay time?
And I've already played Shadowrun online for more than 30 hours. And I bet I'll be playing it for months.
I played Counter-Strike competitively for over 7 years. I had it the day the mod was released, and only paid $50 for Half-Life. I never played the single player portion of Half-Life until HL source.
If I had to go back in time, I'd say Counter-Strike was probably worth $5,000.00 or more based on the time I spent playing it and the fun I got out of it. Multiplayer games are good, and are definitely worth their money.
Shadowrun is MORE than worth $60.00 if you ask me, but I guess I'm in the minority.
I can guarantee I've played Counter-Strike more than 8,000 hours since I got it. Let's say the average single player game or whatever is 50 hours long (it's not, thats actually VERY long but hey)
8000 / 50 = approx 160 single player games worth of time.
If those games were all worth 50 bucks, thats over 8 grand worth of value spent on one 50 dollar multiplayer game.
They have value folks!
I think it has a lot to do with perceived value from a consumer standpoint. A strong single player campaign requires an engaging story, dialogue, characters, more varied character models, and levels that work together to help tell the story. A multiplayer game requires good balance and good level design, but basically no story at all. The devs also don't have to come up with any "content" as in story, level progression or things like that. All the content is generated by the players.
I'm not saying balancing a multiplayer game is easy, or of any less value, but it seems that many companies put out decent single player games with a tacked on multiplayer. If FASFA would have done the opposite and made a half decent single player game, but an awesome multiplayer component, it would have felt like a better package.
Also PC gamers have become a bit spoiled when it comes to multiplayer. While HL:1's multiplayer deathmatch wasn't exactly a super exciting it gave a good basis for the community to build on. CS was no worse off for not having a single player component, but it was also totally free and made by "amateur" programmers. Same thing with Team Fortress. Its kind of a, "see we can make a good multiplayer game why can't you?" thing.
A lot of devs like Valve have embraced this and said, "Sure make us some multiplayer games. We might even give you a job and access to all our bitches." They don't charge full price for these games, because they do feel like only half a game, no less fun, but just one half of what has traditionally been a more complete package. Although MS obviously doesn't see it this way.
But when you compare what they are putting in the Episode:2 box for less money, you gotta wonder where the extra cost of SR comes from.
Look at Sony though. They're putting up what they're hyping as two, full quality, multi player games up for download at a reduced price. And they're also releasing boxed versions, with added stuff to make up for the rise of cost.
I think what Sony's doing is ultimately the right idea in terms of pricing, but obviously they have the benefit of releasing after Shadowrun. If somehow SR sells really well, then I would not be surprised at all if they manipulated the pricing of Warhawk and SOCOM somehow.
Basically, it comes down to experimentation. From what I can recall, there hasn't been a "multiplayer only" title ever released for a console, well at least not as big as Shadowrun, Warhawk, or SOCOM. While I personally think $60 is too high, you can see that it's by no means absurd, given past history with PC games and also the responses of people on this board.
Of course cheaper is always better for consumers. However business-wise, dropping price by 33% ($60 down to $40) means you have to generate 33% more sales. If MS didn't think that was going to happen, especially given all the criticisms the title has gone through ("misuse" of the Shadowrun IP, etc.), then it probably made sense for them to keep it at $60. Similarly, if Sony thinks it can generate 33% more revenue by releasing Warhawk and SOCOM at $40, then that's an excellent idea for them too.
- Don't add me, I'm at/near the friend limit
Steam: JC_Rooks
Twitter: http://twitter.com/JiunweiC
I work on this: http://www.xbox.com
been looking for a reason to join the PA boards and you guys did it with this thread. I've had the game for a week now (almost) sitting in a package next to my 360. Been debating whether to bring the game back after the lukewarm reviews. Everything I read seemed like it'd be a game I'd enjoy, but the reviews said otherwise.
Glad I checked out the thread...cracking it open now to run the tutorials...
Gamertag = UsChickens
If you like multiplayer games, you'll like this. Reviewers are just sour because it's strictly multiplayer. Hell, PCs have been making games that are strictly multiplayer for years. It's about time the consoles caught up.
I can see why and how this game will be fun once I head online. I've never played Tribes or CS (shocked? yes I know :P) so the whole buying during rounds thing is completely new for me. I'll probably be online later tonight for a match or two to see how much I'll get slaughtered. So far, I'm liking Troll Defenders
Trolls are very new player friendly, and don't worry, you don't have to be only a defender. Just remember, if you have a minigun, please have smartlink. If you have smartlink, please don't forget to toggle it off until you are spinning up to fire.
Help me.
Yeah, I've read in the thread about turning on and off smartlink. As for a defender roll, it's just a natch for me in most games, whether MMOs or FPS. Plus there's never enough support experts
Then you are a good man and I will add you to my friend's list next time I'm online.
Just make sure you give me some time to learn the ropes and all will be fine.
XBL/PSN/Steam: APZonerunner
i believe the logic is that the bad guys will see your eyeball laser poking around the corner otherwise.
Pull trigger = barrels spin
Plus when smartlink is active you cannot shoot friendlies.
Pokemon FC: 2749 7579 5931
Well played Xbox live community. Well played.
*Slow clap*
PA Shadowrun Gamertags
===============================
life3::stuffwell
robothero::rob0ther0
BaronVonSnakPak::Baronskatenbass
Tw4win::KobeBlackcat
brynstar::Xander51
Kyougu::Brownchiclets
Vincent Grayson::Vincent Grayson
Bamelin::Bamelin
GroovyMr1337::GroovyMr1337
Spruchy::Spruchy86
Varega::Varega
Trevor Goodchild::Liake
YerMum:: Pugilation
Warder808::Rezin8r
exist::exist347
djklay::djklay
GroovyMr1337::GroovyMr1337
Polago:: Polago
Deamon_Aconis:: PJStelford
Snowbird:: PaShteamRoller
Algertman::Algertman
Aoi::Kirin
Vampire_Goldish::VampireGoldfish
GrimmyTOA::Brittledeer
DevoutlyApathetic::Quippish
BloodyRoarXX:: PABloodyroarXX
Sleep::Sheeeeeeep
ashdragon::ashdrake
Naked Ninja::Implementor
Tw4win::KobeBlackcat
Kyougu::Brownchiclets
Saint Justice::Saint Justice
Nocren::Nocren v2
Shuklak::Mecha Shiva 0
Valdemiro::SIR MO PAIN
krylon666::krylon666
JCRooks::JCRooks
Hlubocky::BrianReturns
Swift::Nexx360
Hypodrmage::Hypo D
PolaGo:: Polago
Danners::UsChickens
Varega::Varega
Xilasrn::blinke
===============================
I hope to see you all soon. I hope the original poster can put this in the first post.
ShankillButcher:SlangButcher