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[Mass Effect] Ah yes, "sequels". We have dismissed this claim. Tag spoilers for newbies!

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  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    Jacob is a catastrophic disaster of a character. A critical failure across essentially every category worth measuring.

    Backstory is generic and boring.
    No memorable character traits.
    No character development over time.
    No obvious party role.
    Lack of fun story beats.
    Tone-deaf and problematic Loyalty Mission.
    Tone-deaf and problematic Romance transition into ME3.

    It just goes on and on with Jacob.

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  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    Jacob hits a lot of really bad racist stereotypes.

    Spoilers for ME2 and ME3:
    1. Intensely objectified throughout his romance.—>The hypersexualization of Black men.

    2. Estranged from his father and, when you meet him, said father is a rapist.—>Age-old racist assumption that all Black men are sexual predators, a myth used to justify the Tulsa and Rosewood massacres as well as countless lynchings.

    3. Portrayed as a serial cheater, since ME2 reveals he cheated on Miranda and he cheats on a romanced Shepard in 3. —> Contemporary addition to the above, that Black men are untrustworthy and cannot control their sexual urges.

    4. His relationship with Dr. Brynn Cole is presented as a dalliance resulting in pregnancy, and now he's taking responsibility. —> Stereotype that dating Black men means they'll just knock you up and it'll be noteworthy if they stick around.

    Note that Jacob is the only romance option in the entire franchise who cheats on Shepard. There is also no way to avoid it. Out of the 6 romance options in ME2, Jacob's is the only one the player cannot continue in ME3. In fact, Jacob is the only romance option who appears in multiple games that you cannot continue. 9 romance options and his is singled out.

    Any one of those things but, taken together, it's fucking gross.

    Bioware needs to hire more Black writers.

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  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    Welp

    My current job is as an administrative assistant at a wedding venue.

    Just got an email from an Ashley Williams requesting a date for her wedding.

    (If her spouse ends up having a last name of Shepard I am not sure if I'll be able to resist jokes)

    See You Space Cowboy: a ttrpg about sad space bounty hunters
    https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
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  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    I think Jacob didn't get more shit because the bar was already so low from Kaiden and Ashley.

    Stabbity_Style.png
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited June 2021
    My favorite human squadmate is Vega cause he is swole.

    Being swole always gets you extra points in my book.

    Dragkonias on
  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    edited June 2021
    Vega is unironically one of my favorite squadmates in the Mass Effect series. He's a funny and charming character, who sticks up for himself and the things he believes in even when it causes friction with Shepard, who has great interactions and scenes on the Normandy, a useful selection of combat powers, and he's tanky enough to not get blown up on Insanity. The only negative that I can think of us that he just kind of appears out of nowhere at the beginning of ME3 and we're supposed to just go with it.

    milk ducks on
    DragkoniasGoodKingJayIIIBRIAN BLESSEDApogeeHappylilElf
  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    It helps that I know multiple ex-military people IRL that are kind of like Vega (though not nearly as swole). For me, Vega was a victim of me wanting to spend the final game with characters I'd grown attached to over the previous 2 games.

    Stabbity_Style.png
    MancingtomSmrtnikDragkoniasBRIAN BLESSEDFencingsaxGnomeTank
  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    If Vega had appeared earlier, he'd be one of the most popular characters in the franchise.

    Kaidan, Ashley, and Miranda are weak characters compared to the rest, but they're miles above Jacob. They actually have character arcs, for one.

    And I maintain that Ashley has the best-written romance in ME1, don't @ me.

    DragkoniasBRIAN BLESSEDjdarksunStabbity StyleJoolander
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited June 2021
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    If Vega had appeared earlier, he'd be one of the most popular characters in the franchise.

    Kaidan, Ashley, and Miranda are weak characters compared to the rest, but they're miles above Jacob. They actually have character arcs, for one.

    And I maintain that Ashley has the best-written romance in ME1, don't @ me.

    I actually agree.

    Like when I originally played ME1I picked Ashley over Liara because I wanted to romance somebody and Liara was kind of weird.

    Coming back for LE, I kind of wanted to switch it up because of Ashley's more problematic aspects but if I'm being honest I just like the romance arc too much.

    Like the conversations you have and the drama are fun. One of my main problems with video game romance arcs are they're a bit too straightforward, I like having a bit of drama outside of "uh-oh you said you liked two characters, which character do you like most?"

    Dragkonias on
  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    If you like messy, dramatic romance arcs, play Dragon Age 2. Much better at that than any Mass Effect.

    DragkoniasBRIAN BLESSED
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited June 2021
    If you like messy, dramatic romance arcs, play Dragon Age 2. Much better at that than any Mass Effect.

    I do.

    Dragon Age honestly just does romances better than Mass Effect in general.

    Dragkonias on
    Stabbity Style
  • SproutSprout Registered User regular
    Vega is the Krogan squad member in ME3.

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  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular

    I love the sparring between Shepard and Vega in the Normandy hold.

    Mostly because FemShep kicks the ass of a guy literally more than twice her size.

    Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
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  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    You know this got me thinking about Andromeda.

    Hmm...I don't remember actively disliking any of the squadmates but they also didn't leave that much of a lasting impression on me.

    Heck, I think I remember Liam the most mostly because of movie night(which was great).

  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    edited June 2021
    I noticed that Mess Sergeant Gardner is voiced by the same guy who voices Udina (Bill Ratner). So my head cannon is that Gardner is Udina’s half brother, and Udina covered the whole thing up because he considers Gardner to be a professional embarrassment (being a cook/janitor and working for Cerberus). Meanwhile, Gardner thinks Udina is a pompous, backstabbing ass and wants nothing to do with him. The both hate each other for kind of the same reason, but different context: each thinks the other is an abject disgrace.

    GoodKingJayIII on
    Battletag: Threeve#1501; PSN: Threeve703; Steam: 3eeve
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  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    I kinda want a game where one of your party members just straight up betrays you.

    Like, you have all your Bro moments with Garrus throughout ME1 and 2.

    But then in ME3 near the midpoint he's just like, "I never liked you Shepard. I've been working for the Reapers all along!"

    Straight up knife in the back.

    And then Garrus could be the Kai Leng, but it would be more interesting and dramatic.

    People got real mad at Dragon Age 2.

    MancingtomBRIAN BLESSEDSynthesisFencingsaxGiantGeek2020jdarksunThegreatcowGnomeTankCorsiniMassenaHappy Little Machine
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited June 2021
    TBH my only problem with DA2 is you can't even be like "Anders...sounds like you're making a bomb. What's up with that?"

    Dragkonias on
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  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    Aistan wrote: »
    RT800 wrote: »
    I kinda want a game where one of your party members just straight up betrays you.

    Like, you have all your Bro moments with Garrus throughout ME1 and 2.

    But then in ME3 near the midpoint he's just like, "I never liked you Shepard. I've been working for the Reapers all along!"

    Straight up knife in the back.

    And then Garrus could be the Kai Leng, but it would be more interesting and dramatic.

    People got real mad at Dragon Age 2.

    People know they're being railroaded in these games, but that doesn't mean they like seeing the tracks.

    GrovejdarksunThegreatcowMassena
  • BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    Dragon Age 2's narrative linearity in the face of classic C&C roleplaying I find actually really fascinating and fun. Thematically the whole game is less about being a chosen one and more about being swept up in greater things vastly beyond any one person's control, which in some ways makes the player character feel smaller and more relatable.

    All this said, I don't think that necessarily works for the kind of story Mass Effect wanted to tell, since thematically the protagonist has always been fundamentally either King/Queen Shit of Special Forces, or at least a leader destined to lead entire races to survival or ruin. Dragon Age 2 is basically an unreliable retelling of the private adventures of a dungeon crawling party comprised almost entirely of disastrous bisexuals, trying to stay alive amongst the shitshow of what is essentially the Florida of Thedas.
    Mancingtom wrote: »
    Jacob hits a lot of really bad racist stereotypes.

    Spoilers for ME2 and ME3:
    1. Intensely objectified throughout his romance.—>The hypersexualization of Black men.

    2. Estranged from his father and, when you meet him, said father is a rapist.—>Age-old racist assumption that all Black men are sexual predators, a myth used to justify the Tulsa and Rosewood massacres as well as countless lynchings.

    3. Portrayed as a serial cheater, since ME2 reveals he cheated on Miranda and he cheats on a romanced Shepard in 3. —> Contemporary addition to the above, that Black men are untrustworthy and cannot control their sexual urges.

    4. His relationship with Dr. Brynn Cole is presented as a dalliance resulting in pregnancy, and now he's taking responsibility. —> Stereotype that dating Black men means they'll just knock you up and it'll be noteworthy if they stick around.

    Note that Jacob is the only romance option in the entire franchise who cheats on Shepard. There is also no way to avoid it. Out of the 6 romance options in ME2, Jacob's is the only one the player cannot continue in ME3. In fact, Jacob is the only romance option who appears in multiple games that you cannot continue. 9 romance options and his is singled out.

    Any one of those things but, taken together, it's fucking gross.

    Bioware needs to hire more Black writers.

    I think BioWare just needed to write more Black characters period. They picked representation poorly with very little else to counterbalance it, except for Anderson (who is admittedly one of the most steadfast and loyal side characters for Shepard from the very beginning).

    If there had been an actual proper cultural spread (which honestly would have gone a long way to making humans in Mass Effect anywhere near as interesting as the aliens), Jacob being a poorly written character wouldn't have nearly smarted so much.

    MancingtomShadowhopeGiantGeek2020GnomeTankHappy Little Machine
  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    I'm still waiting for an RPG with character customization to have the balls to make the default anything other than a brunette white dude with buzz cut and 5 o'clock shadow.

    DA2 default Hawke actually has hair and that shouldn't be noteworthy.

    Lucid_SeraphBRIAN BLESSED
  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    I've decided that for my second playthrough, I'm just going to go full Renegade right out the gate. I had forgotten how shitty you can be to Williams about the whole situation on Eden Prime:

    Accuse her of being a coward and letting her team die; call her incompetent to her face when she brings up the fact that you second-guessed her all throughout the mission; etc.

    I actually like that -- Ash and Shepard getting off on the wrong foot entirely. I'm going to keep her alive in this playthrough, and I think their mutual distrust of one another starting out will feed into their confrontation on Horizon later on.

    SmrtnikcB557FencingsaxJoolanderApogee
  • cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Corsini wrote: »
    cB557 wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    That said ME never really dabbles in mysticism so I could see how it feels out of place.
    Except for the psychic powers.

    Psychic powers? I think you'll find that's manipulating mass in order to make people obey. Nothing psychic about that, this is hard science fiction.

    Yeah, I kind of just ignored biotics cause even in 1 it wasn't clear if they wanted it to be space magic or just mass effect fields.
    I'm not even talking about biotics, I'm talking about the Thorian and Rachni just having straight up telepathy afaik. I think in ME1 the Asari mind-meld was also just space magic, and then in ME2 there's some line that changes it to be something about synchronizing nervous systems.

    Smrtnik
  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    Yes, I just loaded my game and lost a bunch of progress so I could specifically go into the Morinth mission in a nice dress, why do you ask?

    See You Space Cowboy: a ttrpg about sad space bounty hunters
    https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
    Jazz
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    Refresh my memory:
    Isn't Kaiden a Major in ME3 if he's alive? And as I understand the Alliance rank structure, that means that he now outranks Shepard. Does that ever come up in dialog - "Uh, Commander, I just want to point out that I, uh, technically outrank you now" or something like that?

    I mean honestly, Shepard is giving orders to a Turian General and a Quarian Admiral, and the guy basically in charge of the Krogan race, plus whatever Javik is. So ordering around a mere Major is nothing.

    But still: does anyone bother to lampshade that at any point?

    Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
  • milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    The rank increase is addressed for sure, but barely. They don't dwell much on it, and I don't believe there's ever any back-and-forth between the two characters about who outranks who.

    BRIAN BLESSED
  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    Refresh my memory:
    Isn't Kaiden a Major in ME3 if he's alive? And as I understand the Alliance rank structure, that means that he now outranks Shepard. Does that ever come up in dialog - "Uh, Commander, I just want to point out that I, uh, technically outrank you now" or something like that?

    I mean honestly, Shepard is giving orders to a Turian General and a Quarian Admiral, and the guy basically in charge of the Krogan race, plus whatever Javik is. So ordering around a mere Major is nothing.

    But still: does anyone bother to lampshade that at any point?
    By ME3, I think the only characters who actually outrank Shepard are Anderson and maybe Hackett...and that's only because Shepard likes them so much. The Council members rank below their national leaders and a Paragon Shepard tells the Salarian Dalatrass to pound sand and punches a Quarian Admiral in the gut.

  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    The rank increase is addressed for sure, but barely. They don't dwell much on it, and I don't believe there's ever any back-and-forth between the two characters about who outranks who.

    There's no discussion that I recall, but I believe one possibility on the rank thing is
    since Shepard is the commanding officer of the ship, Kaiden is following their orders as part of the crew. That is, Shepard outranks Kaiden by role if not by rank.

    The more likely explanation is the ME3 writers just forgot the established in-game ranks and lazily used a mix of real marine (Major) and navy ranks (LT Commander/Commander) which would make the two either "equivalent" in rank if Shepard is still a LT Commander from ME1 or Shepard would outrank Kaiden if you take Hackett's mail and abbreviations (CDR) used for Shepard's military reinstatement in ME3 literally as apparently including a promotion to Commander.

    The better question is how Kaiden got promoted so fast?

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
    Raynaga
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular

    Shame. They should at least have had James razzing Kaiden over it.

    Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
  • MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    The rank increase is addressed for sure, but barely. They don't dwell much on it, and I don't believe there's ever any back-and-forth between the two characters about who outranks who.

    There's no discussion that I recall, but I believe one possibility on the rank thing is
    since Shepard is the commanding officer of the ship, Kaiden is following their orders as part of the crew. That is, Shepard outranks Kaiden by role if not by rank.

    The more likely explanation is the ME3 writers just forgot the established in-game ranks and lazily used a mix of real marine (Major) and navy ranks (LT Commander/Commander) which would make the two either "equivalent" in rank if Shepard is still a LT Commander from ME1 or Shepard would outrank Kaiden if you take Hackett's mail and abbreviations (CDR) used for Shepard's military reinstatement in ME3 literally as apparently including a promotion to Commander.

    The better question is how Kaiden got promoted so fast?

    My headcanon/theory for this:
    1. Shepard was posthumously promoted to full Commander between ME1 and ME2. Spectre reinstatement included reactivation within the Alliance military. Therefore, Shepard was already a Commander when he returned to duty in ME3.

    2. My guess is that they selected the Virmire Survivor as a Spectre candidate shortly after ME1. The Alliance would've never been satisfied with only one Spectre. That's why the Survivor gets a rank up and sent on special assignments—the brass is padding their resume to make them credible to the Council.

    SorceHappy Little MachineJoolanderGiantGeek2020Thegreatcow
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Vega is unironically one of my favorite squadmates in the Mass Effect series. He's a funny and charming character, who sticks up for himself and the things he believes in even when it causes friction with Shepard, who has great interactions and scenes on the Normandy, a useful selection of combat powers, and he's tanky enough to not get blown up on Insanity. The only negative that I can think of us that he just kind of appears out of nowhere at the beginning of ME3 and we're supposed to just go with it.

    I was 100% prepared to hate him from the promo material but then he turned out be a great guy who was a total goof and it's like gdi they did it, they found the one way to make a Swole-Bro McBrosef character awesome.
    Sprout wrote: »
    Vega is the Krogan squad member in ME3.

    Also this. Like take a Krogan but make them a goofy younger brother. That's Vega.

    StrikorThegreatcow
  • evilbobevilbob RADELAIDERegistered User regular
    Vega is fantastic. Best human squadmate of the whole series.

    l5sruu1fyatf.jpg

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  • MulletudeMulletude Registered User regular
    Vega's Carnage is great and quite literally turns enemies into paste.

    My engineer Shep running with him and Liara is a great team.

    XBL-Dug Danger WiiU-DugDanger Steam-http://steamcommunity.com/id/DugDanger/
  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    Yeah I second Vega being awesome

    Also man joker don’t crack your fingers you idiot!

    StrikorHappylilElf
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    I do love his reactions to some of your previous decisions.

    "You mean you cured the Genophage, freed the Rachni Queen twice, and gave the Geth Reaper tech!?"

    "Yeah."

    "I hope you know what you're doing."

    ProhassHappylilElfFencingsaxThegreatcow
  • SoundsPlushSoundsPlush yup, back. Registered User regular
    evilbob wrote: »
    Vega is fantastic. Best human squadmate of the whole series.

    Man I know you can't see her but Kasumi is right there.

    s7Imn5J.png
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  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    You know playing through again I was actually surprised how much ambient dialogue Kasumi and Zaeed have.

    I feel like it inspired the way allies talked in ME3 cause in 1/2 their dialogue could be sparse once you exhausted their trees.

    Mancingtom
  • evilbobevilbob RADELAIDERegistered User regular
    evilbob wrote: »
    Vega is fantastic. Best human squadmate of the whole series.

    Man I know you can't see her but Kasumi is right there.

    Kasumi is only third best, after Vega and Zaeed.

    l5sruu1fyatf.jpg

  • cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Vega is unironically one of my favorite squadmates in the Mass Effect series. He's a funny and charming character, who sticks up for himself and the things he believes in even when it causes friction with Shepard, who has great interactions and scenes on the Normandy, a useful selection of combat powers, and he's tanky enough to not get blown up on Insanity. The only negative that I can think of us that he just kind of appears out of nowhere at the beginning of ME3 and we're supposed to just go with it.

    I was 100% prepared to hate him from the promo material but then he turned out be a great guy who was a total goof and it's like gdi they did it, they found the one way to make a Swole-Bro McBrosef character awesome.
    An early himbo, from the sounds of it.

    Dragkonias
  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited June 2021
    Man I forgot how much the quarians pissed me off in 3. Sure nows a great time to launch a suicidally stupid invasion of a planet with a robot civilisation that’s had 300 years to prepare!

    I also remember thinking it was unrealistic that anyone would be that stupid. Man you sure do learn a lot growing up about exactly how stupid people can be because now I absolutely believe people could be that stupid and stupider

    Also I had no idea you could shoot rockets out of the air which is neat

    Prohass on
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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    One thing I wish is that for all the little incidental stuff you find for the war effort in 3 they had had unique pictures. Like nothing fancy just a small bit of art. It would’ve helped the immersion a little if you could actually see what the random artefact you found or ship or infantry unit looked like.

    OpposingFarceAistan
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