Why do you think they get free shit? Companies want them to do advertising for them.
I mean ultimately the alternative is "view all sorts of media and reviews and make a decision for yourself and stop listening to someone on a pulpit shout shit on the internet"
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Why do you think they get free shit? Companies want them to do advertising for them.
I mean ultimately the alternative is "view all sorts of media and reviews and make a decision for yourself and stop listening to someone on a pulpit shout shit on the internet"
Bowen like, you kinda contradict yourself there? What media and reviews qualify for you but not channels like GN, LTT and Jayz? Like, who is more trustworthy in the space in your opinion?
It just seems like the indictment is that this guy shouldn't be telling folks to calm down. I don't think it's correct to frame it around whether or not it's okay to get free gear to do reviews. Can't keep ignoring the qualifier.
To be clear, I don't think it's wrong to review a product they get for free and tell folks to calm down when they can't get it. I get that it looks hypocritical but don't agree that it actually is hypocritical.
And if you think Tech Jesus was talking to you when he was saying "calm down" you're wrong. Like holy shit, are you wrong. If you go literally anywhere that is not here you'll see how wrong you are. And I don't give a flying fuck about those folks' feelings if they're going to get murderous rage boners and show them off in public, over a video card, while, I perhaps wrongly but probably not wrongly assume, ride the fucking bench on the 101 vastly more important things going on right now.
Why do you think they get free shit? Companies want them to do advertising for them.
I mean ultimately the alternative is "view all sorts of media and reviews and make a decision for yourself and stop listening to someone on a pulpit shout shit on the internet"
Bowen like, you kinda contradict yourself there? What media and reviews qualify for you but not channels like GN, LTT and Jayz? Like, who is more trustworthy in the space in your opinion?
That is completely the opposite of what I said. You, as a person, should aggregate sources and make a decision.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Why do you think they get free shit? Companies want them to do advertising for them.
I mean ultimately the alternative is "view all sorts of media and reviews and make a decision for yourself and stop listening to someone on a pulpit shout shit on the internet"
Bowen like, you kinda contradict yourself there? What media and reviews qualify for you but not channels like GN, LTT and Jayz? Like, who is more trustworthy in the space in your opinion?
That is completely the opposite of what I said. You, as a person, should aggregate sources and make a decision.
My bad, I definitely misunderstood what you were saying on the first reading. Apologies.
I see all sides of it and I'm just going to say this even though it's not excusing anybody. And things like this certainly happened in the past and will happen in the future, so this probably is all the same for the past and future in varying degrees, but...
The baseline for 2020, at least in the US, is pretty shit. It's not as shit at some places are normally in not-2020 years, but it's shit for a lot of people who've never had to deal with that in any appreciable long term way. There's lots of coping mechanisms for dealing with shit and some are better than others and others are destructive and terrible, but a common one is to look forward to something in the future. For a lot of people it's things like the 30xx line or one of the new generation of console.
People can stop being rational about a thing when they're hinging all their hopes on it. And when you're putting all your hope eggs into one basket and then feel like you have that taken away from you and there's nothing you can do or could have done, that's devastating. Not very many humans react well to that kind of disappointment.
And we can talk all we want about how somebody who can afford one of these things is, simply by the virtue of having access to that much money, better off in hundreds of ways than 4 billion or so other people on the planet, but you can't force that kind of perspective onto a person when they're in an emotional hole.
So I guess what I'm saying is, yeah a lot of people not on this forum are being Geese about the launch, and some of those people are just Geese in general and maybe they can be redeemed but it's not going to be by telling them to calm down in a patronizing way. And some of those people might just be at the end of their ropes and be lashing out because they don't know how to identify or deal with the emotions they're feeling from the disappointment of having put all their hopes onto something and looked at it as a light at the end of their tunnel. The second group of people probably just need some empathy and time and telling them they're being Geese right now before the underlying issues are dealt with is only going to make it worse.
Things suck, but I hope everybody that wants a shiny can get a shiny, and I hope everybody finds some happiness regardless of the shinies.
To bring this back around to topic: I have a 1070 I got a few years ago to replace a 9800gtx+. I have thus not paid attention to RTX or HDR or ray-tracing. Do I need a special monitor for those things?
To bring this back around to topic: I have a 1070 I got a few years ago to replace a 9800gtx+. I have thus not paid attention to RTX or HDR or ray-tracing. Do I need a special monitor for those things?
Not for ray tracing/dlss, but if you are interested in upgrading to a 3080, a lot of that power is wasted if your monitor isn't at least 1440p + high refresh rate.
For HDR, you do need an HDR compatible monitor. I wouldn't bother worrying about HDR for anything less than HDR10.
There are multiple 'tiers' of HDR certification, with the lower certification level being HDR8. HDR8 is garbage and not really anything better than a standard display. HDR10 requires higher color gammut coverage and better peak brightness; enough of an improvement that HDR content looks appreciatively different.
0
Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
Fuck, I already don't refer to myself as a "gamer" thanks to gramblegorpers poisoning that well, now we've got weeks of ostensibly grown men shitting themselves half to death because some video cards sold out.
Nvidia could have waited another two or three months to build up a huge supply of cards so they could ship 2,000 of them to every computer store in the country. Would that have made these people happy?
That'd be a really poor performance jump for how much more hardware it has, going by the tech specs. I'm not going to say, like, OMG FAKE or MUST BE CPU BOUND, but it does make me a bit curious about what's going on here because if we compare the raw specs:
We should in theory see something closer to a 30% increase in performance from the 3080 to the 3090. But we'll see - more sites doing testing will be helpful here to tease out it it was their setup/the tests they were running, or if it's genuinely just a 10% improvement.
3cl1ps3 on
+1
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
If it truly is CPU limited, that could easily account for it. Or gaming workloads can't take advantage of that much hardware? Meh, doesn't matter. Like A duck! said, productivity workloads are what it's meant for anyway.
Fuck, I already don't refer to myself as a "gamer" thanks to gramblegorpers poisoning that well, now we've got weeks of ostensibly grown men shitting themselves half to death because some video cards sold out.
Nvidia could have waited another two or three months to build up a huge supply of cards so they could ship 2,000 of them to every computer store in the country. Would that have made these people happy?
depends, were they going to implement the bare minimum to prevent bots from hoovering up the entire supply?
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Yeah it feels like a simple captcha would of really helped. Even the slightest modicum of effort would of gone a long way, even if it didn’t end up helping.
Fuck, I already don't refer to myself as a "gamer" thanks to gramblegorpers poisoning that well, now we've got weeks of ostensibly grown men shitting themselves half to death because some video cards sold out.
Nvidia could have waited another two or three months to build up a huge supply of cards so they could ship 2,000 of them to every computer store in the country. Would that have made these people happy?
Dude, it's been 6 years. It's ok to let it go.
I always wonder about hardware launches and what the "best" thing to do is. Is it ever even feasible to wait until you could theoretically satisfy all the demand day 1? Is it even possible? What happens if you misjudged demand? What happens if after demand is satisfied day 1, it drops off precipitously? What happens if once the thing is in the wild, you discover a flaw that wasn't caught in testing, and now instead of being able to catch it after 10,000 units are in the wild, fixing the next 90,000 units, you are now stuck with 100,000 units with the defect, and demand has dropped off making fixing it pointless?
I don't think it's obscene for companies to put things out there in quantities that let the true enthusiast squabble over it, and put it through it's paces, while you continue to judge mainstream demand, and iron out your processes. Even by those standards, it's possible that Nvidia misjudged this launch. But it does sound like they were following historical precedent. Maybe someone could have been bold and gone "People are fucking loony with cabin fever, maybe we should make twice as many for a launch as we normally do". But I can't exactly fault Nvidia for not having been that bold.
+3
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
3080s are a myth!
Anyone who claims to have seen one merely saw swamp gas or a weather balloon.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
An 'Add in Board'. You add the card to the PC. So a GPU is an AIB. But people have been taking to calling third party cards "AIB" vs reference from Nvidia/AMD for...reasons.
An 'Add in Board'. You add the card to the PC. So a GPU is an AIB. But people have been taking to calling third party cards "AIB" vs reference from Nvidia/AMD for...reasons.
It comes from shortening "AIB partners". Before the founders editions were a thing, Nvidia only ever manufactured the gpu die itself, which it sold to people like EVGA to manufacture the actual AIBs. A more sensible shortening would be to call them 'partner cards', but AIB is shorter so here we are.
+2
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
edited September 2020
As always happens, there is a term of art, and then people who have no idea what they're talking about misuse the shit out of it. And the wrong term/phrase becomes the accepted one.
Seen it happen so many times at work and it irritates me every time.
Orca on
+3
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
An 'Add in Board'. You add the card to the PC. So a GPU is an AIB. But people have been taking to calling third party cards "AIB" vs reference from Nvidia/AMD for...reasons.
It comes from shortening "AIB partners". Before the founders editions were a thing, Nvidia only ever manufactured the gpu die itself, which it sold to people like EVGA to manufacture the actual AIBs. A more sensible shortening would be to call them 'partner cards', but AIB is shorter so here we are.
Fun fact
There's no reference Nvidia card for the 30XX series
0
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
An 'Add in Board'. You add the card to the PC. So a GPU is an AIB. But people have been taking to calling third party cards "AIB" vs reference from Nvidia/AMD for...reasons.
It comes from shortening "AIB partners". Before the founders editions were a thing, Nvidia only ever manufactured the gpu die itself, which it sold to people like EVGA to manufacture the actual AIBs. A more sensible shortening would be to call them 'partner cards', but AIB is shorter so here we are.
Fun fact
There's no reference Nvidia card for the 30XX series
I'm going to guess most of the partner boards are using the reference design however.
0
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
An 'Add in Board'. You add the card to the PC. So a GPU is an AIB. But people have been taking to calling third party cards "AIB" vs reference from Nvidia/AMD for...reasons.
It comes from shortening "AIB partners". Before the founders editions were a thing, Nvidia only ever manufactured the gpu die itself, which it sold to people like EVGA to manufacture the actual AIBs. A more sensible shortening would be to call them 'partner cards', but AIB is shorter so here we are.
Fun fact
There's no reference Nvidia card for the 30XX series
I'm going to guess most of the partner boards are using the reference design however.
Apparently the actual full reference card is hugely expensive, which is why even Nvidia didn't use it.
0
OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Apparently the actual full reference card is hugely expensive, which is why even Nvidia didn't use it.
That doesn't make much sense to me--customization is typically around the cooling solution, VRMs, memory speed, and baseline overclock. None of those is hugely expensive.
0
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Apparently the actual full reference card is hugely expensive, which is why even Nvidia didn't use it.
That doesn't make much sense to me--customization is typically around the cooling solution, VRMs, memory speed, and baseline overclock. None of those is hugely expensive.
*shrug*
It was mentioned in passing in one of the videos I watched. I don't know much freedom AIB partners have with that kind of stuff, or if Nvidia also included a reference cooler design or what.
0
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
So I've never used DLSS, I'm not sure I even own any games that even support it, but is Nvidia saying you'll get better texture fidelity with a DLSS 4k render than a native 4k render? Plus higher fps?
EDIT: Just checked the games list on Rock Paper Shotgun and I guess I own BF5 and Bright Memory. Kinda disappointed to not see AssCreed Odyssey on there since ground textures look weird at 4k and my frame rate while playable isnt great.
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited September 2020
Not sure what Nvidia's claims are, but in practice, DLSS 2.0 is damn incredible. Especially for games like Control with other RTX features on. I definitely use it in every game that supports it because it looks, to my eye, better than any of the other AA techniques, and actually helps frame rate in a lot of cases. It can also act as the de-noiser for games that use RT reflections, path tracing and GI.
Re the 3090 numbers: If they are real, with a massive bucket of salt...I don't think it's CPU bound issues because the tests were supposedly at 4K which should be the 3090's best case scaling. Which would lead me to believe that either the 3090 clocks like shit, was thermally or power constrained somehow, or the 2 FP32 per clock pipeline doesn't scale well past a certain number of SM's, possibly because the driver can't keep the parallel engines fed. Will be very interesting to see a much broader set of third party reviews. I had no expectations it would linearly scale with cost, or even approach such a thing...but only 10% over the 3080 would give me massive pause. I may still try and get one first thing Thursday morning and if the reviews roundly pan it I'll cancel the order.
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
DLSS 2.0 (and soon 2.1) is amazing but it requires AI training on a supercomputer with a version of the game running 16k resolution, so one assumes its not cheap for companies to implement it.
That said Control and Death Stranding have made it extremely compelling.
DLSS 2.0 (and soon 2.1) is amazing but it requires AI training on a supercomputer with a version of the game running 16k resolution, so one assumes its not cheap for companies to implement it.
That said Control and Death Stranding have made it extremely compelling.
Pretty sure it does not need to be trained on a game per game basis anymore. The algorithm is fully generalized. That's part of the reason DLSS 2.0 was such a massive improvement.
DLSS 2.0 (and soon 2.1) is amazing but it requires AI training on a supercomputer with a version of the game running 16k resolution, so one assumes its not cheap for companies to implement it.
That said Control and Death Stranding have made it extremely compelling.
Pretty sure it does not need to be trained on a game per game basis anymore. The algorithm is fully generalized. That's part of the reason DLSS 2.0 was such a massive improvement.
That's actually p cool I thought it still needed to be trained.
I do know that 2.1 is bringing dynamic resolution scaling ala Fidelity FX.
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Unless it’s a powerhouse for crypto mining or industrial uses, call me skeptical. I have a hard time believing Nvidia would market a card with that minor performance increase for double the cost.
Origin ID\ Steam ID: Warder45
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Unless it’s a powerhouse for crypto mining or industrial uses, call me skeptical. I have a hard time believing Nvidia would market a card with that minor performance increase for double the cost.
I mean again it's likely to be an application specific thing, since it's a productivity card.
Posts
Why do you think they get free shit? Companies want them to do advertising for them.
I mean ultimately the alternative is "view all sorts of media and reviews and make a decision for yourself and stop listening to someone on a pulpit shout shit on the internet"
Bowen like, you kinda contradict yourself there? What media and reviews qualify for you but not channels like GN, LTT and Jayz? Like, who is more trustworthy in the space in your opinion?
To be clear, I don't think it's wrong to review a product they get for free and tell folks to calm down when they can't get it. I get that it looks hypocritical but don't agree that it actually is hypocritical.
And if you think Tech Jesus was talking to you when he was saying "calm down" you're wrong. Like holy shit, are you wrong. If you go literally anywhere that is not here you'll see how wrong you are. And I don't give a flying fuck about those folks' feelings if they're going to get murderous rage boners and show them off in public, over a video card, while, I perhaps wrongly but probably not wrongly assume, ride the fucking bench on the 101 vastly more important things going on right now.
That is completely the opposite of what I said. You, as a person, should aggregate sources and make a decision.
My bad, I definitely misunderstood what you were saying on the first reading. Apologies.
The internet in a nutshell.
The baseline for 2020, at least in the US, is pretty shit. It's not as shit at some places are normally in not-2020 years, but it's shit for a lot of people who've never had to deal with that in any appreciable long term way. There's lots of coping mechanisms for dealing with shit and some are better than others and others are destructive and terrible, but a common one is to look forward to something in the future. For a lot of people it's things like the 30xx line or one of the new generation of console.
People can stop being rational about a thing when they're hinging all their hopes on it. And when you're putting all your hope eggs into one basket and then feel like you have that taken away from you and there's nothing you can do or could have done, that's devastating. Not very many humans react well to that kind of disappointment.
And we can talk all we want about how somebody who can afford one of these things is, simply by the virtue of having access to that much money, better off in hundreds of ways than 4 billion or so other people on the planet, but you can't force that kind of perspective onto a person when they're in an emotional hole.
So I guess what I'm saying is, yeah a lot of people not on this forum are being Geese about the launch, and some of those people are just Geese in general and maybe they can be redeemed but it's not going to be by telling them to calm down in a patronizing way. And some of those people might just be at the end of their ropes and be lashing out because they don't know how to identify or deal with the emotions they're feeling from the disappointment of having put all their hopes onto something and looked at it as a light at the end of their tunnel. The second group of people probably just need some empathy and time and telling them they're being Geese right now before the underlying issues are dealt with is only going to make it worse.
Things suck, but I hope everybody that wants a shiny can get a shiny, and I hope everybody finds some happiness regardless of the shinies.
To bring this back around to topic: I have a 1070 I got a few years ago to replace a 9800gtx+. I have thus not paid attention to RTX or HDR or ray-tracing. Do I need a special monitor for those things?
Not for ray tracing/dlss, but if you are interested in upgrading to a 3080, a lot of that power is wasted if your monitor isn't at least 1440p + high refresh rate.
For HDR, you do need an HDR compatible monitor. I wouldn't bother worrying about HDR for anything less than HDR10.
Nvidia could have waited another two or three months to build up a huge supply of cards so they could ship 2,000 of them to every computer store in the country. Would that have made these people happy?
Spoilers: it doesn't scale to price
I'm curious to see how it does in things like Blender, which is probably what it was actually made for.
That'd be a really poor performance jump for how much more hardware it has, going by the tech specs. I'm not going to say, like, OMG FAKE or MUST BE CPU BOUND, but it does make me a bit curious about what's going on here because if we compare the raw specs:
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-3080.c3621
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-rtx-3090.c3622
We should in theory see something closer to a 30% increase in performance from the 3080 to the 3090. But we'll see - more sites doing testing will be helpful here to tease out it it was their setup/the tests they were running, or if it's genuinely just a 10% improvement.
Even if it had hit the theoretical performance goals, it would've have been worth twice the price
depends, were they going to implement the bare minimum to prevent bots from hoovering up the entire supply?
Dude, it's been 6 years. It's ok to let it go.
I always wonder about hardware launches and what the "best" thing to do is. Is it ever even feasible to wait until you could theoretically satisfy all the demand day 1? Is it even possible? What happens if you misjudged demand? What happens if after demand is satisfied day 1, it drops off precipitously? What happens if once the thing is in the wild, you discover a flaw that wasn't caught in testing, and now instead of being able to catch it after 10,000 units are in the wild, fixing the next 90,000 units, you are now stuck with 100,000 units with the defect, and demand has dropped off making fixing it pointless?
I don't think it's obscene for companies to put things out there in quantities that let the true enthusiast squabble over it, and put it through it's paces, while you continue to judge mainstream demand, and iron out your processes. Even by those standards, it's possible that Nvidia misjudged this launch. But it does sound like they were following historical precedent. Maybe someone could have been bold and gone "People are fucking loony with cabin fever, maybe we should make twice as many for a launch as we normally do". But I can't exactly fault Nvidia for not having been that bold.
Anyone who claims to have seen one merely saw swamp gas or a weather balloon.
An 'Add in Board'. You add the card to the PC. So a GPU is an AIB. But people have been taking to calling third party cards "AIB" vs reference from Nvidia/AMD for...reasons.
It comes from shortening "AIB partners". Before the founders editions were a thing, Nvidia only ever manufactured the gpu die itself, which it sold to people like EVGA to manufacture the actual AIBs. A more sensible shortening would be to call them 'partner cards', but AIB is shorter so here we are.
Seen it happen so many times at work and it irritates me every time.
Fun fact
There's no reference Nvidia card for the 30XX series
I'm going to guess most of the partner boards are using the reference design however.
Apparently the actual full reference card is hugely expensive, which is why even Nvidia didn't use it.
That doesn't make much sense to me--customization is typically around the cooling solution, VRMs, memory speed, and baseline overclock. None of those is hugely expensive.
*shrug*
It was mentioned in passing in one of the videos I watched. I don't know much freedom AIB partners have with that kind of stuff, or if Nvidia also included a reference cooler design or what.
Once you get above the 80 series, the gains are minimal for everyone outside of productivity users or datacenter applications.
That seems to be the claim in their video.
EDIT: Just checked the games list on Rock Paper Shotgun and I guess I own BF5 and Bright Memory. Kinda disappointed to not see AssCreed Odyssey on there since ground textures look weird at 4k and my frame rate while playable isnt great.
Re the 3090 numbers: If they are real, with a massive bucket of salt...I don't think it's CPU bound issues because the tests were supposedly at 4K which should be the 3090's best case scaling. Which would lead me to believe that either the 3090 clocks like shit, was thermally or power constrained somehow, or the 2 FP32 per clock pipeline doesn't scale well past a certain number of SM's, possibly because the driver can't keep the parallel engines fed. Will be very interesting to see a much broader set of third party reviews. I had no expectations it would linearly scale with cost, or even approach such a thing...but only 10% over the 3080 would give me massive pause. I may still try and get one first thing Thursday morning and if the reviews roundly pan it I'll cancel the order.
That said Control and Death Stranding have made it extremely compelling.
Pretty sure it does not need to be trained on a game per game basis anymore. The algorithm is fully generalized. That's part of the reason DLSS 2.0 was such a massive improvement.
That's actually p cool I thought it still needed to be trained.
I do know that 2.1 is bringing dynamic resolution scaling ala Fidelity FX.
The 1080Ti matched or exceeded the 10-series Titans, and as far as I can tell the 3090 is supposed to fulfil that "Titan" role in the lineup.
I mean again it's likely to be an application specific thing, since it's a productivity card.