As someone with a 3090, anyone buying that card for it's "value" is very bad at basic math.
I mean, if you need the vram but not the professional drivers? It's a lot better deal than the titan rtx. Like, it completely blows everyone else out of the water at machine learning
Yeah, it's not positioned as a good value option and doesn't need to be. It's good to be the king.
I could see the 6900XT eventually forcing a price drop on it once all stock stabilizes, though, as there's a pretty wide gap between them in terms of price to performance. I don't think there's any reason to seriously doubt AMD's benchmarks for that card at this point.
+1
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I don't think the 3090 will drop much in price, for the reasons Spoit listed. It's still a monster workstation card at that price, with 24GB of GDDR6X, across a massive bus width, and all the RT cores. If anything Nvidia will release a 1000 dollar competitor, likely in the form of a 3080 Ti, rather than price drop the 3090.
Unrelated, but I've read Spoit's name as Sploit for years on this forum. My brain just stuck an L in there.
Ah yeah I hadn't really been considering that. Honestly, that much GDDR6X sounds expensive enough to pin the base price of the card somewhere in the $1300-1400 range, to the point where there isn't actually much margin to cut into to fight off the 6900XT.
Ah yeah I hadn't really been considering that. Honestly, that much GDDR6X sounds expensive enough to pin the base price of the card somewhere in the $1300-1400 range, to the point where there isn't actually much margin to cut into to fight off the 6900XT.
I don't have the numbers handy, but generally, yes, that much GDDR6X is $Texas.
I thought the AMD cards were only GDDR6 and not X?
They are. They also have thinner memory buses than most of the Ampere cards. This, combined with Ampere's more pure FP32 cores to bring to bear, are why it has a slight edge at 4K generally.
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
edited November 2020
The cynical part of me thinks Nvidia released the 3090 only so they'd still be able to hang something over AMD's head.
*read this in ProZD's snobby Lysanderoth voice* "Yes yes you've done very well in the mid-range and gaming... but at the high end compute, old chap, you still don't hold a candle!"
jungleroomx on
+4
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited November 2020
Don't see how that's cynical? I think that's pretty close to reality. Release the 3080 expecting that it will hold the performance crown, even if only by a tiny amount. Leave yourself room to drop a $1000 3080 Ti in response to whatever AMD does, and release a Titan class card that you're fairly positive will stay the kind of the hill. How successful this strategy ends up being will depend entirely on how well the 6900XT actually does in practice. It has 8 more CU's, but it's memory is no faster, and it's not a wider bus. We know CU / CUDA cores don't scale linearly so we just have to wait and see.
People talk about how "Ohh AMD jebaited/dunked on Nvidia", but I'm fairly sure Nvidia knew months ago AMD was going to come in hot with a real competitor.
e: One more thing I think is interesting is that Nvidia left a 2000+ CUDA core gap between the 3080 and 3090. I'm fairly sure this is not by accident.
Yeah, it's not positioned as a good value option and doesn't need to be. It's good to be the king.
The 3090 is totally unnecessary, I was interested in going with the top option because my build was planned to be buy top and sit on it for many many years. Then saw the prices and the performance returns and it's like "hmmm, naw, I should realistically settle for the 3080." This is a gaming computer mostly, I used to do more crunchy workloads in the past but nothing GPU-crunching these days (was doing my masters in bioinformatics).
Was totally trying to get a 3080 but well, no idea when that would be, managed to get the 5800x and build the computer and have it up and running, just waiting for a GPU... and the wait could be a while, only estimates the shops are giving is managing expectations with "might be 2021 for most sorry."
I'm super privileged and just said fuck it and bumped from 3080 to 3090.
Now time to find a reason to get back into CUDA or shit.
+1
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited November 2020
For 99% of people there is no question the 3090 is a stupid purchase. Again, I say this as someone with a 3090 in one of my machines. It was probably a stupid purchase for me. I happen to be in the extremely privileged position to make a stupid purchasing decision simply because I wanted to.
Even if the 6900xt beats the 3090 at gaming, with the other hardware stuff, not to mention the cuda lockout, I doubt it'll be that competitive at prosumer tasks
A truly stupid purchase would be doing something about my video card absence with say a 3070 or 3080 delivered to my door, GnomeTank hint hint wink wink.
+2
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Even if the 6900xt beats the 3090 at gaming, with the other hardware stuff, not to mention the cuda lockout, I doubt it'll be that competitive at prosumer tasks
Oh it absolutely won't be competitive for anything outside of raster gaming.
I can understand not really caring about RT but DLSS seems like such a massive thing.
I was checking out the Death Stranding screenshots and with DLSS enabled it actually looked better at 4k and you still got a boost. The texture res looked really improved.
Is that specifically done for DS or will that be pretty standard going forward? I’m hoping the same thing for CP.
0
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I can understand not really caring about RT but DLSS seems like such a massive thing.
I was checking out the Death Stranding screenshots and with DLSS enabled it actually looked better at 4k and you still got a boost. The texture res looked really improved.
Is that specifically done for DS or will that be pretty standard going forward? I’m hoping the same thing for CP.
DLSS 2.0 is ridiculous. Sometimes the result is a little worse, most of the time it's unnoticeable unless it's long, skinny objects like power lines, sometimes it looks better than native.
Basically, if your reviewer has to stop and examine a screenshot of it, then it's not noticeable. And that's usually 90% of the DLSS critiques.
People talk about how "Ohh AMD jebaited/dunked on Nvidia", but I'm fairly sure Nvidia knew months ago AMD was going to come in hot with a real competitor.
Nah clearly NVIDIA offered good price-performance this time around only because they were competing with their Turing line, having no idea what AMD was bringing to the table, and sure in their belief that they could not catch up to the 3080. Also focused on competing against next-gen consoles since there was no way the same tech was going into AMD PC cards. Or at least that's what the Internet told me.
0
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
People talk about how "Ohh AMD jebaited/dunked on Nvidia", but I'm fairly sure Nvidia knew months ago AMD was going to come in hot with a real competitor.
Nah clearly NVIDIA offered good price-performance this time around only because they were competing with their Turing line, having no idea what AMD was bringing to the table, and sure in their belief that they could not catch up to the 3080. Also focused on competing against next-gen consoles since there was no way the same tech was going into AMD PC cards. Or at least that's what the Internet told me.
I mean it is
But pretty limited
Which is what you expect from SoC architecture.
I thought we had it confirmed like, a year ago that the SoC for consoles was going to be RDNA2?
jungleroomx on
+2
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
People talk about how "Ohh AMD jebaited/dunked on Nvidia", but I'm fairly sure Nvidia knew months ago AMD was going to come in hot with a real competitor.
Nah clearly NVIDIA offered good price-performance this time around only because they were competing with their Turing line, having no idea what AMD was bringing to the table, and sure in their belief that they could not catch up to the 3080. Also focused on competing against next-gen consoles since there was no way the same tech was going into AMD PC cards. Or at least that's what the Internet told me.
I mean it is
But pretty limited
Which is what you expect from SoC architecture.
I thought we had it confirmed like, a year ago that the SoC for consoles was going to be RDNA2?
I'm fairly sure he was being sarcastic, but I could be wrong
thatassemblyguyJanitor of Technical Debt.Registered Userregular
It seems like the way that places are starting to combat the scalpers/bots is that they're putting the video cards and cpus into a semi-useful bundle with various components; this is good because the stock is lasting long enough to get through the checkout process.
To add to the success stories - I landed a Ryzen 5800 and MSI RTX 3090 (the one without the goddamn lights - kind of wanted the EVGA with the metal back plate, but rigid plastic is plenty strong) tonight on Newegg by shopping the bundles - having a paypal account with a credit card setup was key.
It also seems like they're actually doing order filtering even if the cart was guaranteed as some bundles would twinkle from "Notify Me" to "Add to Cart" after the initial frenzy was over, so that's going to help smooth things over as the demand decreases as folks get their goods and get out.
Motherboards are the most pain in the ass to replace, you generally do an entirely new build if you're looking to upgrade your motherboard.
Now is a fine time to buy, though! The X570 boards and 5000 series Ryzens are quite powerful!
That's good, just need to figure out how to make a absurdly good gaming PC now. After reading the rest of the thread though it seems like it is going to be real difficult to get high end parts.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
It seems like the way that places are starting to combat the scalpers/bots is that they're putting the video cards and cpus into a semi-useful bundle with various components; this is good because the stock is lasting long enough to get through the checkout process.
To add to the success stories - I landed a Ryzen 5800 and MSI RTX 3090 (the one without the goddamn lights - kind of wanted the EVGA with the metal back plate, but rigid plastic is plenty strong) tonight on Newegg by shopping the bundles - having a paypal account with a credit card setup was key.
It also seems like they're actually doing order filtering even if the cart was guaranteed as some bundles would twinkle from "Notify Me" to "Add to Cart" after the initial frenzy was over, so that's going to help smooth things over as the demand decreases as folks get their goods and get out.
Newegg lets you return bundled stuff if you pay shipping but it still kind of eats me that the only way to buy a 5600x or 3080 from them now apparently is to buy some other shit I don't need, lol
It seems like the way that places are starting to combat the scalpers/bots is that they're putting the video cards and cpus into a semi-useful bundle with various components; this is good because the stock is lasting long enough to get through the checkout process.
To add to the success stories - I landed a Ryzen 5800 and MSI RTX 3090 (the one without the goddamn lights - kind of wanted the EVGA with the metal back plate, but rigid plastic is plenty strong) tonight on Newegg by shopping the bundles - having a paypal account with a credit card setup was key.
It also seems like they're actually doing order filtering even if the cart was guaranteed as some bundles would twinkle from "Notify Me" to "Add to Cart" after the initial frenzy was over, so that's going to help smooth things over as the demand decreases as folks get their goods and get out.
Newegg lets you return bundled stuff if you pay shipping but it still kind of eats me that the only way to buy a 5600x or 3080 from them now apparently is to buy some other shit I don't need, lol
Totally. It’s very much less than ideal. No argument there.
I give Newegg credit though because they were trying to make the bundles worth while from what I saw - CL16 DDR4 3600 RAM, PCIe 4.0 NVMe drives, desirable AM4 motherboards.
The Ryzen was bundled with a 6TB HDD which is good for cold storage over the next 5-8 years - increased the price by ~$200 but for something I can use; and the 3090 was bundled with 16GB of RAM - increased the price by ~$100. Not nearly as obnoxious as antONLINE bundling the EVGA 3090 FTW3 with an i9-9900KF and bumping the MSRP by $700 (the i9 is barely worth $400 today on sale).
e: The i9 model is from memory and could be slightly off - I remember the price difference though because of how balsy it was.
Motherboards are the most pain in the ass to replace, you generally do an entirely new build if you're looking to upgrade your motherboard.
Now is a fine time to buy, though! The X570 boards and 5000 series Ryzens are quite powerful!
That's good, just need to figure out how to make a absurdly good gaming PC now. After reading the rest of the thread though it seems like it is going to be real difficult to get high end parts.
Honestly, if you need everything, it may be worth just getting a prebuilt. Even the good mobos and cases can be non-trivial to source
Well it looks like the GPU riser cable is definitely DOA. Amazon should have a replacement to me on Saturday or Sunday.
MSI's Dragon Center is indeed as terrible as I'd read it was on forums and Reddit. Mystic Light refused to see my G Skill ram or my video card. A bit more digging suggested Asus's Armor Crate which worked perfectly. Go figure that a competitors software works better.
I'm using a Scythe Mugen 5 rev.B with an extra 120mm fan while I test everything out and it's barely able to keep this 5900x under 90c running stress tests. It should be fine for gaming and normal use though. I admit I was expecting a bit better.
FWIW my 5900x is PBO boosting to 4950mhz on a single core. Running Cinebench R23, due to temps hitting 88c, was right around 4ghz (score was 19945). I'm really curious what it'll do when I watercool it.
Well it looks like the GPU riser cable is definitely DOA. Amazon should have a replacement to me on Saturday or Sunday.
MSI's Dragon Center is indeed as terrible as I'd read it was on forums and Reddit. Mystic Light refused to see my G Skill ram or my video card. A bit more digging suggested Asus's Armor Crate which worked perfectly. Go figure that a competitors software works better.
I'm using a Scythe Mugen 5 rev.B with an extra 120mm fan while I test everything out and it's barely able to keep this 5900x under 90c running stress tests. It should be fine for gaming and normal use though. I admit I was expecting a bit better.
FWIW my 5900x is PBO boosting to 4950mhz on a single core. Running Cinebench R23, due to temps hitting 88c, was right around 4ghz (score was 19945). I'm really curious what it'll do when I watercool it.
Armory Crate "works" but it's still a piece of bloatware trash in relative terms and not worth keeping installed. Asus' website actually has a link for the last standalone version of Asus Aura, which is less trash. I installed that + a Corsair iCue extension to let iCue control the Asus mobo stuff. iCue is absolutely wonderful but presumably relatively resource expensive if you have some funky custom lighting set up and keep it running in the background.
Think I'm going to go ahead and upgrade from my R7 260X, some games are starting to fall short of 60fps for me even at 720 with modest settings.
Either to a 1060 or a 1650 Super, I'm thinking. Something that can max out 1080p, has shorter models (<200mm), and only needs a 6-pin.
MSI's short 1650 Super models are going for ~$180+ new with MS sales tax, which is about my limit. edit: Walmart of all places has the MSI 1650 Super Aero a bit cheaper than Amazon or Newegg?
Maybe I'll poke around r/hardwareswap and Ebay, see if I can find a better deal. Though saving $30-40 or so may not be worth it vs buying new and knowing the warranty is good...
Is there anything else I should be looking at or below that price range (used or new) that has models on the shorter side and 6pin?
It looks like all the new hotness for GPUs are unavailable for the foreseeable future?
There's a trick to getting a Zotac card if you don't mind using PayPal. I finally caved and it worked my first time trying it. It helps that Zotac reliably has their drops in the same time window, so if you're looking to get a 3080 it's more possible than it has been in the past. Not yet at the point where you can just go to any website and click "buy it now" though.
If you want a 5XXX CPU, NewEgg bundles (mandatory PayPal checkout) are probably your best bet.
Had one in the cart, Best Buy randomly decides to log me out and force me to get a verification code via email, and surprise it's no longer available.
Fucking piece of shit website.
Had one what? I literally woke up 18 minutes ago, checked my bookmarks, saw BB had 5600xes, did the whole cart dance, double verification, change shipping method, pay, and got one. And in the time I was doing all that on my phone, I refreshed the page on my PC and it showed Sold Out.
I keep having successes with BB as advertised and you keep getting the shaft and I've no idea what the difference between us is.
Edit: ohh, they had a bunch of 3080s too =/ I wasn't up early enough for those; I'm guessing that's what you were shooting for. And the presence of the 3080s and the relative undesired-ness of the 5600x (and probably larger supply) helped me out here.
Posts
I mean, if you need the vram but not the professional drivers? It's a lot better deal than the titan rtx. Like, it completely blows everyone else out of the water at machine learning
I could see the 6900XT eventually forcing a price drop on it once all stock stabilizes, though, as there's a pretty wide gap between them in terms of price to performance. I don't think there's any reason to seriously doubt AMD's benchmarks for that card at this point.
Unrelated, but I've read Spoit's name as Sploit for years on this forum. My brain just stuck an L in there.
If anything, the 6900XT is going to be the raster only king.
I don't have the numbers handy, but generally, yes, that much GDDR6X is $Texas.
They are. They also have thinner memory buses than most of the Ampere cards. This, combined with Ampere's more pure FP32 cores to bring to bear, are why it has a slight edge at 4K generally.
*read this in ProZD's snobby Lysanderoth voice* "Yes yes you've done very well in the mid-range and gaming... but at the high end compute, old chap, you still don't hold a candle!"
People talk about how "Ohh AMD jebaited/dunked on Nvidia", but I'm fairly sure Nvidia knew months ago AMD was going to come in hot with a real competitor.
e: One more thing I think is interesting is that Nvidia left a 2000+ CUDA core gap between the 3080 and 3090. I'm fairly sure this is not by accident.
The 3090 is totally unnecessary, I was interested in going with the top option because my build was planned to be buy top and sit on it for many many years. Then saw the prices and the performance returns and it's like "hmmm, naw, I should realistically settle for the 3080." This is a gaming computer mostly, I used to do more crunchy workloads in the past but nothing GPU-crunching these days (was doing my masters in bioinformatics).
Was totally trying to get a 3080 but well, no idea when that would be, managed to get the 5800x and build the computer and have it up and running, just waiting for a GPU... and the wait could be a while, only estimates the shops are giving is managing expectations with "might be 2021 for most sorry."
I'm super privileged and just said fuck it and bumped from 3080 to 3090.
Now time to find a reason to get back into CUDA or shit.
Oh it absolutely won't be competitive for anything outside of raster gaming.
I was checking out the Death Stranding screenshots and with DLSS enabled it actually looked better at 4k and you still got a boost. The texture res looked really improved.
Is that specifically done for DS or will that be pretty standard going forward? I’m hoping the same thing for CP.
DLSS 2.0 is ridiculous. Sometimes the result is a little worse, most of the time it's unnoticeable unless it's long, skinny objects like power lines, sometimes it looks better than native.
Basically, if your reviewer has to stop and examine a screenshot of it, then it's not noticeable. And that's usually 90% of the DLSS critiques.
Nah clearly NVIDIA offered good price-performance this time around only because they were competing with their Turing line, having no idea what AMD was bringing to the table, and sure in their belief that they could not catch up to the 3080. Also focused on competing against next-gen consoles since there was no way the same tech was going into AMD PC cards. Or at least that's what the Internet told me.
I mean it is
But pretty limited
Which is what you expect from SoC architecture.
I thought we had it confirmed like, a year ago that the SoC for consoles was going to be RDNA2?
I'm fairly sure he was being sarcastic, but I could be wrong
MILD STORY SPOILERS AT ABOUT 3:20!!
To add to the success stories - I landed a Ryzen 5800 and MSI RTX 3090 (the one without the goddamn lights - kind of wanted the EVGA with the metal back plate, but rigid plastic is plenty strong) tonight on Newegg by shopping the bundles - having a paypal account with a credit card setup was key.
It also seems like they're actually doing order filtering even if the cart was guaranteed as some bundles would twinkle from "Notify Me" to "Add to Cart" after the initial frenzy was over, so that's going to help smooth things over as the demand decreases as folks get their goods and get out.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
That's good, just need to figure out how to make a absurdly good gaming PC now. After reading the rest of the thread though it seems like it is going to be real difficult to get high end parts.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Newegg lets you return bundled stuff if you pay shipping but it still kind of eats me that the only way to buy a 5600x or 3080 from them now apparently is to buy some other shit I don't need, lol
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Totally. It’s very much less than ideal. No argument there.
I give Newegg credit though because they were trying to make the bundles worth while from what I saw - CL16 DDR4 3600 RAM, PCIe 4.0 NVMe drives, desirable AM4 motherboards.
The Ryzen was bundled with a 6TB HDD which is good for cold storage over the next 5-8 years - increased the price by ~$200 but for something I can use; and the 3090 was bundled with 16GB of RAM - increased the price by ~$100. Not nearly as obnoxious as antONLINE bundling the EVGA 3090 FTW3 with an i9-9900KF and bumping the MSRP by $700 (the i9 is barely worth $400 today on sale).
e: The i9 model is from memory and could be slightly off - I remember the price difference though because of how balsy it was.
Honestly, if you need everything, it may be worth just getting a prebuilt. Even the good mobos and cases can be non-trivial to source
MSI's Dragon Center is indeed as terrible as I'd read it was on forums and Reddit. Mystic Light refused to see my G Skill ram or my video card. A bit more digging suggested Asus's Armor Crate which worked perfectly. Go figure that a competitors software works better.
I'm using a Scythe Mugen 5 rev.B with an extra 120mm fan while I test everything out and it's barely able to keep this 5900x under 90c running stress tests. It should be fine for gaming and normal use though. I admit I was expecting a bit better.
FWIW my 5900x is PBO boosting to 4950mhz on a single core. Running Cinebench R23, due to temps hitting 88c, was right around 4ghz (score was 19945). I'm really curious what it'll do when I watercool it.
It looks like all the new hotness for GPUs are unavailable for the foreseeable future?
Pretty much. At this point it's basically a "check back after Christmas" scenario IMO.
Armory Crate "works" but it's still a piece of bloatware trash in relative terms and not worth keeping installed. Asus' website actually has a link for the last standalone version of Asus Aura, which is less trash. I installed that + a Corsair iCue extension to let iCue control the Asus mobo stuff. iCue is absolutely wonderful but presumably relatively resource expensive if you have some funky custom lighting set up and keep it running in the background.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Since it's software that exists for both platforms, I'm gonna dare to ask, has anyone tried OpenRGB and if so, any good?
Either to a 1060 or a 1650 Super, I'm thinking. Something that can max out 1080p, has shorter models (<200mm), and only needs a 6-pin.
MSI's short 1650 Super models are going for ~$180+ new with MS sales tax, which is about my limit. edit: Walmart of all places has the MSI 1650 Super Aero a bit cheaper than Amazon or Newegg?
Maybe I'll poke around r/hardwareswap and Ebay, see if I can find a better deal. Though saving $30-40 or so may not be worth it vs buying new and knowing the warranty is good...
Is there anything else I should be looking at or below that price range (used or new) that has models on the shorter side and 6pin?
Besides these 2 cyberpowerpc bestbuy black friday deals.
^for reference: $1000 = AMD Ryzen 7 3700X {liquid cooled} + Radeon RX 5700 XT + 16GB RAM + 1TB SSD nvme
^ $750 = AMD Ryzen 5 3600 + AMD Radeon RX 5600 XT + 16GB RAM + 1TB HDD + 500GB SSD nvme
If you want a 5XXX CPU, NewEgg bundles (mandatory PayPal checkout) are probably your best bet.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Fucking piece of shit website.
i7 9700k or 10700k
Had one what? I literally woke up 18 minutes ago, checked my bookmarks, saw BB had 5600xes, did the whole cart dance, double verification, change shipping method, pay, and got one. And in the time I was doing all that on my phone, I refreshed the page on my PC and it showed Sold Out.
I keep having successes with BB as advertised and you keep getting the shaft and I've no idea what the difference between us is.
Edit: ohh, they had a bunch of 3080s too =/ I wasn't up early enough for those; I'm guessing that's what you were shooting for. And the presence of the 3080s and the relative undesired-ness of the 5600x (and probably larger supply) helped me out here.
But damn, I missed the 3080s, lol.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.