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[Genshin Impact] Breath of the Gacha (1.2 out now!)

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Posts

  • AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    XxRVkbP.jpg

    I was sad at first. But then it rolled ATK as its last stat, and then upgraded ATK% twice and ATK once so like...it's useable?

    Noelle in the future is going to really love this.

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
    Shadowfire
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Yeah, that's pretty beautiful for Noelle.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
    Aegis
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    When should I start worrying about something besides character levels and generic item levels?

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
  • P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    When should I start worrying about something besides character levels and generic item levels?
    later floors on abyssal spire requires some party composition stuff to deal with elemental shields

    or do you mean stats on the artifacts because eh *wobbles hands* probably also later floors of abyssal spire only

    Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
  • TierwulfTierwulf Registered User regular
    Don't know if this was mentioned, if you run straight out from Montstadt and keep going straight on the road that leads to the thousand winds temple, there's an NPC named Chloris that walks up and down it. She sells Wolfhook, Valberry, and Philanemo Mushrooms x 5 each for 1000 per item. I am not sure on her restock window (I think I bought yesterday morning and it's saying 1 day 7 hours left). She also sells 10x snapdragon and mint.

    Starting early and buying her inventory out every time can probably save quite a bit of time for those ascension materials.

    Teknotier on PSN

    www.twitch.tv/Teknotier
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Philanemo mushrooms aren't too bad - if you go to the one small town in Montstadt (Springvale?) they're all over the buildings.

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
  • TravanTravan Registered User regular
    Should i just be feeding 3* artifacts into 4*s because near as I can tell there’s no way to see the stats of artifacts you’re sacrificing and no way to lock or favorite gear in your inventory

    Gamertag- Travan7838


  • FeldornFeldorn Mediocre Registered User regular
    Travan wrote: »
    Should i just be feeding 3* artifacts into 4*s because near as I can tell there’s no way to see the stats of artifacts you’re sacrificing and no way to lock or favorite gear in your inventory

    If you aren’t going to wear them, yes.

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    I keep a couple of each 3* around for set bonuses and such but otherwise yeah that.

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Well did some pulls for the banner. Got my first dupe, which wash Fischl. Got Venti and Barbara. So my next question is, what's the suggestion for banner pulling once you get the feature units in the limited one? Should one start saving stuff for the next one? Just keep pulling from that banner till it ends? Switch to the non-limited banner? Some sort of mix of pull from limited till X amount of time is left on it and then start saving or switch to the regular banner?

  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    Well did some pulls for the banner. Got my first dupe, which wash Fischl. Got Venti and Barbara. So my next question is, what's the suggestion for banner pulling once you get the feature units in the limited one? Should one start saving stuff for the next one? Just keep pulling from that banner till it ends? Switch to the non-limited banner? Some sort of mix of pull from limited till X amount of time is left on it and then start saving or switch to the regular banner?

    Do you like any of the 4*? If yes, pull for dupes. Getting off banner units it still pretty hard and some of those constellation bonuses are great.

    It you have no strong feelings then just save, current content is doable with all C0 stuff.

    steam_sig.png
  • KelorKelor Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    akjak wrote: »
    There are too many currencies in this game. I am totally confused by what to spend.

    Is there any use for duplicate weapons other than combining them?

    I've seen this question a bunch of times, so this is my understanding of all the different currencies.

    Mora: The Genshin equivalent of gold. Used along with materials to level characters, weapons and artifacts.


    Genesis Crystals: What you buy with real money. Used to obscure how much money you're paying to draw three star weapons. Used to buy....
    \/ \/ \/ \/
    Primogems: 160 are used to buy.....
    \/ \/ \/ \/
    Intertwined Fate: Used to wish for limited time banners, such as the current Venti and Weapon ones.
    Acquaint Fate: Used to wish for fixed banners.


    Making wishes will give you 2 Starglitter when you pull a 4* or better and 15 Stardust on a 3* or less.

    Starglitter: 5 Starglitter can be used to buy an Intertwined or Acquaint Fate. 34 Starglitter will allow you to buy a character and 24 for a rare weapon or Mora, less for epic crafting materials.

    Stardust: 125 Stardust can be used to buy an Intertwined or Acquaint Fate, but you can only buy 5 a month. You can also purchase Mora or upgrade items this way.


    Original Resin: Used to receive rewards from Leyline events in the overworld, in certain dungeons for rewards and for killing certain elite enemies in the overworld. Restores itself over time, or by using Resin items.

    Keys to the Depths: Used to open the glowing spaces in the overworld. Rewards high amounts of Mora, XP and Primogems as well as artifacts.

    Kelor on
    Bucketman
  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Also, I'd maybe hold on to those Genesis Crystals and not immediately dump them into Primogems. Since they're the paid currency, it's entirely possible that we'll end up with a better use for them than we currently have down the line as they start adding/cycling stuff in the Genesis Crystal shop.

    SijLqhH.pngSteam: stabbitystyle | XBL: Stabbity Style | PSN: Stabbity_Style | Twitch: stabbitystyle
  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    edited October 2020
    Also Re: Artifacts. Leveling them is never wasted as when fed to another artifact they give all their stored exp. So if you replace an artifact with a clearly better one later in the game when new sets open up, you can tranfer all those levels by having the new artifact eat the old one.

    Any F/GO players should be familiar with the concept from CE leveling.

    vagrant_winds on
    // Steam: VWinds // PSN: vagrant_winds //
    // Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
    Stabbity StyleMirkelShadowfirePolaritieBucketman
  • MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    Also Re: Artifacts. Leveling them is never wasted as when fed to another artifact they give all their stored exp. So if you replace an artifact with a clearly better one later in the game when new sets open up, you can tranfer all those levels by having the new artifact eat the old one.

    Any F/GO players should be familiar with the concept from CE leveling.

    Good to know. It is easy to notice they give way more xp than level 0 artifacts but I figured there might be some loss of xp involved.

  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    Did the first two floors of the spiral whatever with a team at level 20 and got 6 reward doodads for each. I'll probably re-do them after leveling everyone to 30 to see if I can get all 9, and then go and do floor 3 since I just barely pulled off the 6 doodads on floor 2 with a 20 level difference and floor 3 has a 25 level difference so I'd probably only be able to get 3, if that.

  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    edited October 2020
    Opty wrote: »
    Did the first two floors of the spiral whatever with a team at level 20 and got 6 reward doodads for each. I'll probably re-do them after leveling everyone to 30 to see if I can get all 9, and then go and do floor 3 since I just barely pulled off the 6 doodads on floor 2 with a 20 level difference and floor 3 has a 25 level difference so I'd probably only be able to get 3, if that.

    Note that if you complete floor 3, even with zero stars, you get the free character Xiangling. You just have to beat it without timing out completely.

    Tiger Burning on
    Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with
    Shadowfire
  • LorekLorek Registered User regular
    So I need to work a bit more on my second team; I cleared Floor 5 Chamber 1, but by then my second team was low on HP and couldn't survive the 2nd Chamber.
    But uh.. guys, Keqing+Barbara+Qiqi is a lot of damage. Put both their whirling element skills on and swap to Keqing and stuff just dies. Like I did Keqing's ult with those on and I got an achievement for doing 5,000 critical hit damage.
    Also, Razor fucks stuff up too. I'm leveling him up as the primary DPS for my second team and he's really good at it. I may swap him to the first team and put Keqing on the second; I'm curious how stupid Razor+Barbara+Qiqi gets when you add a Claymore to actually trigger Shatter. And Keqing's higher level/stats might be enough to keep Team 2 going.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    So how does the two team thing work? Cause I definitely only really have one team leveled up.

    What is this I don't even.
  • FeldornFeldorn Mediocre Registered User regular
    Realistically you could have 1 built DPS and 3 others supporting them. So you don’t have to kit out a full squad.

    DarkewolfeP10
  • LorekLorek Registered User regular
    Yeah, right now I'm basically focusing on Keqing and Razor to get them up as much as I can. I'm leveling up their weapons and artifacts to max as much as I can.
    Then I have a bunch of support characters sitting in the 20->40 range. Their job is to just basically drop their element skills/ults and then get the fuck out and back to the main dps. Their weapons and artifacts are leveled up only enough to basically get me the chapter quests when I need them (like level 12 different artifacts to level 8 or ascend 3+ weapons or whatever).

    Then basically my two abyss teams are Keqing+3 supports and Razor+3 supports.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Hmm. This game is so weird in some ways. I mostly like it, but there are some odd choices.

    Without saying, worst gacha ever. Monetization is frustrating.

    Co-op is tacked on and is honestly really pointless. They badly need a co-op focused dungeon for you to play with friends.

    Lastly, the mobile option frankly SUCKS compared to not mobile. And for a mobile, gacha game the game asks you to complete a LOT of repetitive daily tasks. If you play it like a single player game and just enjoy yourself it's splendid, but if you fall into the mental trap of it being a gacha to be optimized, it's very grindy and bad.

    What is this I don't even.
  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    So I've been trying the game out and it's fun as heck, y'all.

    I just finished up the 3 temples and have been let loose to try and reach AR10 on my own, I've used my free pulls and bonus pulls and so far I've got

    The 3 freebies
    Noelle
    Fischl, who I got just as I logged off and haven't tried yet but is supposed to be great and is my waifu already

    So I think I'm going with Traveller, Noelle, Fischl, Kaeya (sp?) for now.

    I now have no idea what I'm doing, and I have some questions:

    1) If I play this until the end of the story, how long will that take me?
    2) What is food for, and how do I use it? I assume combat buffs?
    3) Why do my wings appear when I jump off some ledges, but not others? How do I know if I'll float or not?
    4) When I worship at a shrine, do all of my characters get the stamina bonus or just the one I used to worship?
    5) How regularly will I find mats to do wishes? Am I essentially stuck with the characters I've got unless I fork out money?

    Gotta say, I'm kind of amazed this is a F2P product. It's certainly changed my conception of what MTX can enable. I've only been playing a few hours but this really does seem like an exceptional product.


    ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
    Steam: adamjnet
  • metaghostmetaghost An intriguing odor A delicate touchRegistered User regular
    1. “end of story” is somewhat ambiguous, but the Mondstadt Arc is ~25-35 hours depending on efficacy understanding systems and how often you get distracted
    2. Yes, food is for combat buffs and healing in the absence of a healing character. Food that buffs attack characteristics can allow completion of content for which you are underleveled.
    3. Gliding is janky
    4. No clue, never pay attention
    5. Ignoring all the gifts devs have provided, Primogems are not really acquired in bulk, but almost everything you do yields 2-5 Primos

    McMoogleShadowfireStabbity Style
  • LorekLorek Registered User regular
    Spaffy wrote: »
    So I've been trying the game out and it's fun as heck, y'all.

    I just finished up the 3 temples and have been let loose to try and reach AR10 on my own, I've used my free pulls and bonus pulls and so far I've got

    The 3 freebies
    Noelle
    Fischl, who I got just as I logged off and haven't tried yet but is supposed to be great and is my waifu already

    So I think I'm going with Traveller, Noelle, Fischl, Kaeya (sp?) for now.

    I now have no idea what I'm doing, and I have some questions:

    1) If I play this until the end of the story, how long will that take me?
    2) What is food for, and how do I use it? I assume combat buffs?
    3) Why do my wings appear when I jump off some ledges, but not others? How do I know if I'll float or not?
    4) When I worship at a shrine, do all of my characters get the stamina bonus or just the one I used to worship?
    5) How regularly will I find mats to do wishes? Am I essentially stuck with the characters I've got unless I fork out money?

    Gotta say, I'm kind of amazed this is a F2P product. It's certainly changed my conception of what MTX can enable. I've only been playing a few hours but this really does seem like an exceptional product.


    1) The story is gated by Adventure Rank. So it will take you some time just because even if you bee-line the story, you'll hit a rank roadblock. If you're an explorer though, shouldn't be a problem. I'm rank 30 (or 31 now maybe?) and I haven't finished the main quest just because I walk most places and just do all the stuff I see. Still haven't finished the main story and been playing a couple hours each night since launch.

    2) Food can do healing, revive dead characters, atk buffs, stamina buffs... The interface is shit though, you basically just open your inventory, go to the food tab, pick the food and it'll ask you which character to feed it to.

    3) Wings appear when you jump again while in the air.

    4) Stamina is universal, so it's across all characters. Similarly, if you switch characters when not at full stamina, it won't automatically go back to full; it's the same pool.

    5) Like I said earlier, I do a lot of exploring, so I've cleared a lot of the map where I've been. I also have the daily 90 gem pack, plus they've been giving away 160 each day. So that's 250 per day. But I've been getting enough to do a multi every couple days? I have feeling I'm very close to hitting the wall though and that will slow down tremendously.

    bobAkirafett
  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    metaghost wrote: »
    1. “end of story” is somewhat ambiguous, but the Mondstadt Arc is ~25-35 hours depending on efficacy understanding systems and how often you get distracted
    2. Yes, food is for combat buffs and healing in the absence of a healing character. Food that buffs attack characteristics can allow completion of content for which you are underleveled.
    3. Gliding is janky
    4. No clue, never pay attention
    5. Ignoring all the gifts devs have provided, Primogems are not really acquired in bulk, but almost everything you do yields 2-5 Primos

    Thanks for the info!

    I guess my other question is a little vague, but basically, how challenging does the game get? Right now I'm kind of just switching between characters at random, firing off whatever spell isn't on CD and hitting them with whoever's got the strongest weapon, and it's working fine. Do the elemental synergies play a larger role later in the game, do I need to memorise what they all do, etc?

    ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
    Steam: adamjnet
  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Started this last night and finished through the third temple to hit AR7. Got flooded with currency so I did some pulls.

    - Noelle
    - Sucrose x2
    - Xiangling x2
    - 5* Skywhatever Bow why are you not a character damn you

    So, rates are pretty terrible! Combat is iffy, couldn't really tell when I was taking damage usually. Story sounds interesting, characters are alright, and being able to call Paimon emergency food was hilarious. Guess the next goal is AR10

  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    That 5* bow is pretty great. I use it on Fischl for lightning field shenanigans.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • metaghostmetaghost An intriguing odor A delicate touchRegistered User regular
    @Spaffy Through AR25 or so, game is very “not challenging”; the combat mechanics and gear optimization stuff is more for managing “end game” repetitional content

  • MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    .
    Spaffy wrote: »
    metaghost wrote: »
    1. “end of story” is somewhat ambiguous, but the Mondstadt Arc is ~25-35 hours depending on efficacy understanding systems and how often you get distracted
    2. Yes, food is for combat buffs and healing in the absence of a healing character. Food that buffs attack characteristics can allow completion of content for which you are underleveled.
    3. Gliding is janky
    4. No clue, never pay attention
    5. Ignoring all the gifts devs have provided, Primogems are not really acquired in bulk, but almost everything you do yields 2-5 Primos

    Thanks for the info!

    I guess my other question is a little vague, but basically, how challenging does the game get? Right now I'm kind of just switching between characters at random, firing off whatever spell isn't on CD and hitting them with whoever's got the strongest weapon, and it's working fine. Do the elemental synergies play a larger role later in the game, do I need to memorise what they all do, etc?

    It gets gradually harder, though the challenge is most often how fast you can dps things down and less often how well you can survive. There's not that many elemental interactions so if you keep on playing you'll eventually remember them. Wind mostly just adds the same sort of damage the enemies already have on them, electricity either does a lot of damage with fire, debuffs enemy physical resistance with cold or sends sparks flying all over with wet. Fire melts ice and sets wood on fire etc.

  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    Started this last night and finished through the third temple to hit AR7. Got flooded with currency so I did some pulls.

    - Noelle
    - Sucrose x2
    - Xiangling x2
    - 5* Skywhatever Bow why are you not a character damn you

    So, rates are pretty terrible! Combat is iffy, couldn't really tell when I was taking damage usually. Story sounds interesting, characters are alright, and being able to call Paimon emergency food was hilarious. Guess the next goal is AR10

    On rates: you got more doodz than I got, so they're probably gonna get worse...

    ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
    Steam: adamjnet
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I don't think the game will ever get particularly challenging in terms of immediate game mechanics. The difficulty is more gacha standard, do you have a good enough team and have farmed your gear hard enough to meta the content.

    What is this I don't even.
  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Spaffy wrote: »
    Madican wrote: »
    Started this last night and finished through the third temple to hit AR7. Got flooded with currency so I did some pulls.

    - Noelle
    - Sucrose x2
    - Xiangling x2
    - 5* Skywhatever Bow why are you not a character damn you

    So, rates are pretty terrible! Combat is iffy, couldn't really tell when I was taking damage usually. Story sounds interesting, characters are alright, and being able to call Paimon emergency food was hilarious. Guess the next goal is AR10

    On rates: you got more doodz than I got, so they're probably gonna get worse...

    I don't see how, those were literally all pities besides the bow.

    They really should have some 3* characters I think

  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    Spaffy wrote: »
    Madican wrote: »
    Started this last night and finished through the third temple to hit AR7. Got flooded with currency so I did some pulls.

    - Noelle
    - Sucrose x2
    - Xiangling x2
    - 5* Skywhatever Bow why are you not a character damn you

    So, rates are pretty terrible! Combat is iffy, couldn't really tell when I was taking damage usually. Story sounds interesting, characters are alright, and being able to call Paimon emergency food was hilarious. Guess the next goal is AR10

    On rates: you got more doodz than I got, so they're probably gonna get worse...

    I don't see how, those were literally all pities besides the bow.

    They really should have some 3* characters I think

    Oh right yeah, I got a dupe or two I think.

    ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
    Steam: adamjnet
  • MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    edited October 2020
    Madican wrote: »
    Spaffy wrote: »
    Madican wrote: »
    Started this last night and finished through the third temple to hit AR7. Got flooded with currency so I did some pulls.

    - Noelle
    - Sucrose x2
    - Xiangling x2
    - 5* Skywhatever Bow why are you not a character damn you

    So, rates are pretty terrible! Combat is iffy, couldn't really tell when I was taking damage usually. Story sounds interesting, characters are alright, and being able to call Paimon emergency food was hilarious. Guess the next goal is AR10

    On rates: you got more doodz than I got, so they're probably gonna get worse...

    I don't see how, those were literally all pities besides the bow.

    They really should have some 3* characters I think

    You can get pity-weapons instead of pity-characters, that's how. If you want to know how bad luck can get, I'm AR26 and I've gotten exactly two non-automatic characters so far. I have Barbs from hitting AR20, Xiangling from Abyss 3-3, Traveller, Amber, Lisa and Kaeya and gotten Beidou and Xingqiu from wishes. That's two characters out of maybe 70 wishes (got the 50 wish achievement ages ago, haven't kept tabs on the exact number otherwise).

    At least Beidou is great and right now I feel like I'd be hard-pressed to even level any new characters (and their weapons) up so in that sense it's no big deal, but it'd be nice to have a few more options and to try out all these cool characters others are playing with. But of course that's gacha games for ya.

    Mirkel on
  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    It sounds like the assassin dudes say "You can't run from debt." instead of "death" and, honestly, that's so much more threatening.

    Too real, assassin, too real.

    Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with
    metaghostShadowfireBrodyPolaritieJeixStabbity StyleMcMoogleSpectrumIanator
  • KyanilisKyanilis Bellevue, WARegistered User regular
    Mihoyo posted an update to their Chinese playerbase about timing of content/events. Someone posted the translated comment on reddit as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/j7yl0h/11_detailed_official_update_full_translation/

    Basically, there's no events right now because they're working on fixing issues that have come up. 1.1 is currently scheduled for November 11th, 1.2 on December 23rd, and 1.3 in February. Each of these updates will include events/new activities as well.
    List of recent version activities and time:

    Version 1.1 - It is expected to be updated on November 11. During this version, the "Unreturned Star Off" event will be opened;

    Version 1.2 - It is expected to be updated on December 23. During this version, the Dragonspine Snow Mountain area and related version activities will be opened;

    Version 1.3 - It is expected to be updated in February next year. During this version, the "Lantern Rite Festival" series of activities will be launched.

    1.1 is a little later than I expected but it's nice to get a bit of a roadmap.

    metaghostShadowfireTiger BurningAegisBrodyBucketmanOlivaw
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    There were some videos posted a couple days back leaking two new five star characters. I think it was an ice bow and geo spear. Wonder if those are part of the 1.1 or not.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • MillMill Registered User regular
    I gather there are bunch of Chinese players that were unhappy with the lack of any sort of event stuff for their fall festival. It's a pretty dumb thing to get miffed about IMO. I'd argue with a game this complex and with this much content, that probably for the first 6 months, if not year, you don't want holiday stuff. One, that stuff takes up development time that is likely better spent on making sure the core game is solid. Two, it's really unneeded IMO since the entire game is new; especially, with something like this. I'd also argue you probably want to give both the game and the community time to mature so that you have an idea on how to design holiday events to mesh well, rather than being some janky add-on that is there for the sake of X holiday, that just doesn't really do what either the game or community wants.

    Still roadmaps are really nice to have.

    Also I'm enjoying how Noelle handles, reminds me of a retribution paladin from World of Warcraft's Wrath of the Lich King pre-launch patch. Only key difference is she scales off of defense, is much more tanky, has a bubble that doesn't gimp her damage and lacks both range and the hilarious on crit heal over time. I suspect this probably why some get thrown off by her. First, she doesn't operate like the typical healer. Then you get some who are thrown off because they start to think ret paladin, but see defense scaling, which was a state ret paladins avoided like the plague.

  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    Having a roadmap is nice, but no Halloween event is disappointing. Also six weeks between new content going forward is going to be rough. These kinds of games typically thrive on a constant influx of limited time events and activities. As long as there are story quests to do it's fine, but once those are done..

    Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with
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