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[Stellaris] Robo Mommy Returns to Dom Meatbags [Machine Age DLC]

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    chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited April 2021

    But wait, there's more!

    We announced with last week's patch notes that we were working on further fixes for the Stellaris 3.0 Patch. We're proud to present the patch notes for Stellaris "Dick" 3.0.1.

    Read them here: https://t.co/V1OUeyG4wg https://t.co/tetm8Qo5pt

    That's a lot of bugfixes.

    Undead Scottsman on
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    swphreakswphreak Registered User regular
    I bet they saw some bugs during the Cold War stream and made it a point to fix them.

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    MillMill Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Doubtful, that stream was a few days ago. That wouldn't give them enough time to fix much. A number of bugs in this game, have been around precisely because they are either really hard to fix or very obscure, to the point where it can legitimately bug the question of "is it a good use of resources to deal with this bug or to just leave it be." Point in case of an obscure bug, getting a size 55 planet. Aspec did a whole video on it and contacted the devs and they flat out stated they didn't see a need because you need to get the horizon signal, then defeat the contingency, take the system their last world spawns in, build a habitat and then move your capital there. It's a bug and probably one of the easier ones to fix, but I'm willing bet that it lands squarely in "this isn't worth burning resources on to resolve, use those resources on other things."

    Edit: Before I forget. Want do my first Nemesis playthrough as the crises and want to use hololive portraits for the lols. I mean, what better way to destroy the galaxy than through anime girls.

    I've almost narrowed down my character pick to either Korone or Pekora. I'm leaning towards Korone because I can run with the some jokes like naming the species Doog and the rule Greater Doog. I've haven't followed either one enough to get all the applicable memes and Pekora even less than Korone. One thing that kills it for me with Pekora, is that criminal syndicate seems fitting, but that civic sucks ass to play; especially, in solo play where the AI will spam enforcer buildings to fix the crime issue.

    I know either one will be some level of militarist. Not sure if I would go full fanatical or just partial. Given I want to be the nemesis, xenophile is off the table. Pacifist is also off the table because well, peace was never an option with somethings. If I do go with Korone, I'll have to remember that for RP purposes, the creepy crawly bug races that are cute, will get purged. Not sure about other ethics. I guess egalitarian is also off the table, since I'll make the empire either imperial or a dictatorship, depends on civics, also a good excuse to make the leader the chosen one via console.

    Civics, origin and species traits are also still up in the are. I want to lean into the flavor side of things more than min/max and only result to min/max when there isn't an option that fits flavor or flavor can't be applied.

    Mill on
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    EvmaAlsarEvmaAlsar Birmingham, EnglandRegistered User regular
    swphreak wrote: »
    I bet they saw some bugs during the Cold War stream and made it a point to fix them.

    I can guarantee a lot of balancing was a result of observing Stefan Xefan breaking the game over his knee again with the Xuman hive mind

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    stopgapstopgap Registered User regular
    EvmaAlsar wrote: »
    swphreak wrote: »
    I bet they saw some bugs during the Cold War stream and made it a point to fix them.

    I can guarantee a lot of balancing was a result of observing Stefan Xefan breaking the game over his knee again with the Xuman hive mind

    What happened?

    steam_sig.png
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    heheheh "Dick"

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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    Anybody interested in a multiplayer game to kick things off?

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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    MillMill Registered User regular
    4-5 days isn't nearly enough time to do proper balance adjustments. All they'd really get out of that game is a sense where some things are OP and where other things might be UP. Then there is the whole thing about no system really being a vacuum in this game, so most adjustments are going to have knock on effects that you want to account for and adjust to make sure that one change doesn't end up generating a domino effect where you end up accidently nerfing and buffing things by silly amounts and just end up with the game broken in new, possibly hilarious ways. That said, I'm pretty sure they took note of a number of things and going over those because big patches like this, in just about any game really that uses online updating, will usually have a follow up balance patch. I mean, it shouldn't be surprising because even if you have lots of bodies working on a game and a big budget, once you get enough things in the game, it's really easy for the development staff to miss some obscure interaction and then a player busts it out (MMORGs are notorious for this because unlike Stellaris, there are a shit ton of quirky items that players have, which the developers, and even most players in possession of those items, forget about.).

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    4-5 days isn't nearly enough time to do proper balance adjustments. All they'd really get out of that game is a sense where some things are OP and where other things might be UP. Then there is the whole thing about no system really being a vacuum in this game, so most adjustments are going to have knock on effects that you want to account for and adjust to make sure that one change doesn't end up generating a domino effect where you end up accidently nerfing and buffing things by silly amounts and just end up with the game broken in new, possibly hilarious ways. That said, I'm pretty sure they took note of a number of things and going over those because big patches like this, in just about any game really that uses online updating, will usually have a follow up balance patch. I mean, it shouldn't be surprising because even if you have lots of bodies working on a game and a big budget, once you get enough things in the game, it's really easy for the development staff to miss some obscure interaction and then a player busts it out (MMORGs are notorious for this because unlike Stellaris, there are a shit ton of quirky items that players have, which the developers, and even most players in possession of those items, forget about.).

    I would buy into this more if virtually every major patch for Stellaris didn't horribly break some underlying system in its first iteration. I dooooon't think they're doing quite that level of testing, and are probably more than happy to have some obvious things to hotfix from watching player's interacting with it in beta.

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    swphreakswphreak Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Anybody interested in a multiplayer game to kick things off?

    I'd be up for a MP game. I can create a stellaris channel in the PA Discord (Edit: invite link) if there's enough interest.

    I haven't even started a proper game yet. I just spent an hour going through my custom empires list and cleaning/updating them.

    swphreak on
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    stopgapstopgap Registered User regular
    I have never played this game multiplayer and always kind of wanted to. I could be convinced.

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    TeriferinTeriferin Registered User regular
    The update broke all my mods, so I'm trying out a vanilla Necrophage game. Managing slaves is a pain.

    teriferin#1625
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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    edited April 2021
    stopgap wrote: »
    I have never played this game multiplayer and always kind of wanted to. I could be convinced.

    The best part of past mp has been shouting at each other between sandboxes, though on at least one occasion Evma and I were fixing to pincer-attack an AI when we called it.

    I'm game again.

    Auralynx on
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    MillMill Registered User regular
    Huh, had to restart my first attempt at playing a campaign where I was going to destroy the galaxy as Korone Inugami because apparently the caravanners all got wiped out on the 9th day. This was after having to reload the game because off endless blank pop up spam and disabling the endless reliquary mod. So possible said mod is to blame for their deaths because it decided to kill them, if it wasn't allowed to run. Really sucks because outside of the agenda and a few leader traits, I appeared to have had a decent start.

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    swphreakswphreak Registered User regular
    Looks like there's four of us interested in mutliplayer so far. I went ahead and created chat and voice channels on the PA Discord.

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    EvmaAlsarEvmaAlsar Birmingham, EnglandRegistered User regular
    stopgap wrote: »
    EvmaAlsar wrote: »
    swphreak wrote: »
    I bet they saw some bugs during the Cold War stream and made it a point to fix them.

    I can guarantee a lot of balancing was a result of observing Stefan Xefan breaking the game over his knee again with the Xuman hive mind

    What happened?

    All traditions complete and megaengineering unlocked by year 67.

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    MillMill Registered User regular
    Yeah, I think he figured out how to game the new pop growth mechanic. Haven't watched his stream and it would need to be clipped down before I bother because those were long streams.

    Anyways, I'm expecting them to do something about the trick of build shit tons of housing and get crazy growth (likely putting a hard cap or a really crazy diminishing return setup). It has the nasty problem of making "habitats should be capped!" crowd louder because an obvious approach would be to build a shit ton of habitats that exist solely to generate massive pop growth. Habitats don't need a nerf, I haven't done a void dweller build but based on what I'm reading and what I've seen with my first habitat, they got a significant nerf. The issue is that devs really need a mechanic that discourage spamming colonies for the sake of getting more pops o use on developed colonies. The solution to that would be that you have some sort of cap, not necessarily a hard one, where if you go too far over it, those colonies end up being a death spiral. If done right, you have a setup where those new colonies aren't good for farming pops nor do they produce much in the way of resources, so both the AI and player want to develop their colonies as much as possible and not have many colonies with low development.

    I'll need to see if the AI still spams habitats and puts them in piss poor locations most of the time, without ever expanding them. There are two issues here, the AI should be taught proper habitat use. Obviously the first question, is do the devs want it to always focus on maximizing black sites, transit hubs and doing fortress worlds. I would think the answer should be yes depending on the difficulty. For example, grand admiral should be getting black sites up, getting a habitat around every world in the system that has a deposit that generates special districts and maybe one or two habitats after it maxes out it's ability to get habitats with special districts, that are habitats with the normal districts, but are used as fortress worlds (assuming it's even possible to get a decent number of fortresses on those anymore). On the lowest difficulty levels, maybe it doesn't build black sites past it's capital world, but any habitat it puts up, always tries to have a special district. I've had games where I look in a system, see a special deposit in an AI system, then see a habitat and click it, only to find that said habitat has no special districts. Now I'm playing on low difficulty but it's really dumb that the AI goes for such habitat setups when it could get better and I suspect it's probably that way on the harder settings as well. Maybe it does eventually fill the whole system with habitats, but I doubt it's prioritizing getting special district ones first. The other issue is that I'm pretty sure it's building habitats to burn influence and those shouldn't be an influence sink ever; especially, when we consider which things fuck with performance. Maybe if we get an internal politics patch, they can add new shit towards the part of the game where we end up with too much influence, to negate having claims and habitats be influence sinks. Those things shouldn't only happen because someone wants to do them or they fill a need beyond just burning influence.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Started a fanatical egalitarian xenophile empire, a Free Haven with Shared Burdon and starting in an existing Federation. Basically the ultimate good guys.

    Then I found out the allied faction to my left are a technocratic dictatorship and to my right was a corporate police state. There were some other traders who seemed not terrible and totally jived with my Federation so we're up to four peeps now.

    Then a xenophobic materials totally snaked my exit so I'm going to be limited to like 3 planets until I can go to war with them, which would have been awhile but my entire federation got sick of their shit and declared war. I accepted before realizing I had zero defenses in that area. Whoops. Gogo Iron Man no rollbacks!

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    MillMill Registered User regular
    Honestly, I'm hoping they revisit the empire creation and game start page. I'd love to be able to have my empires policies preset before game start. Also that if I need to restart a game for any reason, to have a setup where I can select a button that does so and it picks the empire I was playing. Right now, you have to go to the menu, select the empire and hit start. If you try the console code for restarting, it'll give you a random empire.

    As for ruler traits, I wish they revisiting starting ruler traits and agendas/mandates. I'd love for the option to have a check box where you could either

    -Where you have the current method that is mostly random, I do recall ethics playing some part in winnowing the pool. Don't think xenophile start rulers ever roll with slave optimization or native privileges.
    -The RP pool, for lack of better terms, where you are then presented with options that will narrow your ruler's stuff to narrow pool that fits an RP flavor. With my current game, I saw how this is kind of needed because I'm going with flavor and neither native privileges or slave optimization fit that mold but both of those are surprisingly common rolls for a fanatical materialist militarist empire. It can really suck the fun out of RP, when you go to create the ultimate anti-slave and anti-xenophobe empire that doesn't have the xenophile ethic and the games RNG is like "well fuck you, here is a leader that is all about being a slavery pushing bigot!" Also gives RPers the option to roll a ruler completely at odds with the empire's setup, if there thing is fighting to make their empire better.
    -A free reign setup, where you can pick what you want. I mean, who gives a fuck if some opt to make the game easier for themselves, if they find that fun and it's not in an MP setup that makes people made, there is zero issue. I really wanted selective nostalgia for the current empire I'm playing because Korone plays tons of retro games, so it's a good fit.

    Also the game went the nonsense route of my ruler getting the native privileges agenda and then becoming the founding member of the xenophile faction. So they might need to work on a few leader things anyways. Hell, I'd love to most negative ruler traits chucked and made into neutral traits that have pros and cons. These end up being your start traits and any additional traits your leader gets are gravy because they are almost always going to be positive traits. Pretty much picking a leader becomes about your playstyle because that starting trait could trigger events or saddle you with some limitations, while opening up new options. The only three negative traits I'd keep are paranoid, maimed and substance abuser and have those tied to only be acquired by events, just make sure the player is giving something in return for the negative trait to offset it. Hell, I'd probably make paranoid a neutral trait you still get by events and have it make it so you research has some additional encryption because it makes sense thematically anyways.

    I'd also give people some creative freedom on what their federation buddies, without having to custom make brand new empires in the empire creation screen. I want to say that's still a crap shoot unless you only make three empires with the same federation origin and have enough other premade force spawned empires to prevent some random one being thrown into the federation. Honestly, kind of wish they would merge the two federation origins and just have an option somewhere that lets players pick an applicable federation type.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    I still like the idea of a visual novel game that randomly selects an origin (and would come with a bunch more), and simulates your development by throwing events at you that you can make choices about. Eventually you reach the end and it spits out an Empire to play as.

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    YoshisummonsYoshisummons You have to let the dead vote, otherwise you'd just kill people you disagree with!Registered User regular
    EvmaAlsar wrote: »
    stopgap wrote: »
    EvmaAlsar wrote: »
    swphreak wrote: »
    I bet they saw some bugs during the Cold War stream and made it a point to fix them.

    I can guarantee a lot of balancing was a result of observing Stefan Xefan breaking the game over his knee again with the Xuman hive mind

    What happened?

    All traditions complete and megaengineering unlocked by year 67.
    At the time stamp he mentions the game had 0.5x tech cost so honestly 67 years isn't that abnormal.
    https://youtu.be/jMTkODLNTdA?t=3932
    1:05:30

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    Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    Every major update to Stellaris has broken the game horribly in some way. Every. Single. One. I'm going to learn my lesson this time around and give it a couple of weeks to see what the major crippling bugs are this time around before I give Paradox any more of my money.

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    EvmaAlsarEvmaAlsar Birmingham, EnglandRegistered User regular
    EvmaAlsar wrote: »
    stopgap wrote: »
    EvmaAlsar wrote: »
    swphreak wrote: »
    I bet they saw some bugs during the Cold War stream and made it a point to fix them.

    I can guarantee a lot of balancing was a result of observing Stefan Xefan breaking the game over his knee again with the Xuman hive mind

    What happened?

    All traditions complete and megaengineering unlocked by year 67.
    At the time stamp he mentions the game had 0.5x tech cost so honestly 67 years isn't that abnormal.
    https://youtu.be/jMTkODLNTdA?t=3932
    1:05:30

    Ah to be fair I wasn't paying attention if/when the game casters covered the galaxy generation settings (I was watching Fred/Simas cover the game, not individual players) so I didn't realise tech/tradition cost may be different.

    That's not nearly as horrifically Stefan as I thought it was, then. He still absolutely overwhelmed everybody else, though. And that was with the RP restriction that forced him to make friends up until the turning point towards endgame.

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User, Moderator mod
    Did planetary unification tech used to give extra monthly influence or was it always monthly unity and I'm insane?

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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Having completed one game with the new expansion the best news seems to be that performance actually didn't tank in the endgame although that may have been because the endgame was myself and the Unbidden going around wiping out civilizations until I abandoned most of my empire to an invading Fallen Empire and just turtled over 1k total fleet power in my home sector while I waited for my doomsday machine to finish.

    The fact that the special Menacing ships are built using minerals is stupid op.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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    MillMill Registered User regular
    So might do a different game later to be the crisis. In my current game, my militarist fanatical materialist technocracy spawned next to a hegemony federation and they were dumb enough to invite me in and now I'm in control of the hegemony and have no interest in giving up that position. Granted, maybe that is a great starting point for becoming crisis. Depends on whether my subjects can leave, don't think they can. On the other hand, I have to FEs as either a direct neighbor or a neighbor two systems down and those guys really don't like crises empires and it sounds like one would want to start menace ASAP. Though my goal was to do it as my last perk, when I'm nicely built up to wreck everything. You know the whole, "fools I'm not going to reveal my brilliant plan when you still have hope of stopping it, I'm going to reveal it when it's already too late to stop it." or however that quote went.

    As for pop growth changes. I think the big cause of outcry against it, is that it really isn't intuitive and it's fair to say the biggest issue the game has is that towards endgame it did become pop shuffling simulator with massive lag and a few other things. Pretty much, I'm really hoping they are starting work on an internal politics patch and IMO that really out to be something that is discounted because the game has likely gone on too long without. Anyways, that would probably blunt most of the criticism people have because it would be more for them to do (we really do need more influence consuming options in certain parts of the game anyways) and would allow them to not have to adjust pop growth in an attempt to make it intuitive. IMO it's not too hard to figure out the system.

    We also really need more win condition besides what the crisis creates. One criticism I'm seeing with become the crisis is that why it does give you a win goal to strive for, it doesn't quite have the replayability that many have gotten use too. There is no middle ground you either die trying to destroy the galaxy or you destroy the galaxy. Custodian and Emperor have been hailed as have for more replayability but suffer from the issue that game has always had. Outside of rack of a higher score than everyone else, you just have no real objectives that are win conditions. Maybe the next minor patch could skip being a species pack and be a pack that gives us some narrative stories with win conditions.

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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    To me the peaceful win condition is surviving the crisis, though it is often too easy to do that. I have thought for a long time that the game needs a diplo victory though, and ways to basically diploannex your federation members and/or merge federations.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    I kinda want to turn the first contact stuff off; it just gets too crazy to manage a half dozen of them, while also engaged in early game expansion/anomoly stuff while ALSO engaging in an early war.

    I wanted to go into this game treating each empire as special, but I ran though like a half dozen of them while engaged in a war and now they're basically the same faceless statistics that are there to take up space, like they always are.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Also my federation keeps popping up proposals that vanish before I can even finish reading them and either pause the game when they pop up, or let me know why they vanished. (I'm assuming someone voted no)

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    PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    i'm going to have to watch some how to videos and if anyone has recommendations please link them. i can't seem to get enough authority but everything i'm reading says i need to expand faster. also inevitably i am out of one resource whether food, energy, minerals, or alloys.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Pailryder wrote: »
    i'm going to have to watch some how to videos and if anyone has recommendations please link them. i can't seem to get enough authority but everything i'm reading says i need to expand faster. also inevitably i am out of one resource whether food, energy, minerals, or alloys.

    You can trade resources in the marketplace if you have a surplus of something else.

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    swphreakswphreak Registered User regular
    I'm liking Nemesis so far. I agree that first contact is pretty annoying and hectic during multiplayer when you can't tap the spacebar and take care of stuff.

    I'm also enjoying espionage. I just wish it had it'd own page (unless I'm super blind and missing it). It's pretty annoying to have to open up the Contact page, scroll to the empire, then click espionage.

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    Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    i bought that humble bundle a couple weeks ago and tried to get back into this after playing a couple games when it launched the first time.

    it's uh, a whole lot huh. i am so unbelievably lost haha.

    aeNqQM9.jpg
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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User, Moderator mod
    swphreak wrote: »
    I'm liking Nemesis so far. I agree that first contact is pretty annoying and hectic during multiplayer when you can't tap the spacebar and take care of stuff.

    I'm also enjoying espionage. I just wish it had it'd own page (unless I'm super blind and missing it). It's pretty annoying to have to open up the Contact page, scroll to the empire, then click espionage.

    you can also do any of the things you usually do to open the diplomacy comms screen with an empire then click over to the espionage tab in the bottom left of that, like clicking their flag icon next to one of their colonies.

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    swphreakswphreak Registered User regular
    swphreak wrote: »
    I'm liking Nemesis so far. I agree that first contact is pretty annoying and hectic during multiplayer when you can't tap the spacebar and take care of stuff.

    I'm also enjoying espionage. I just wish it had it'd own page (unless I'm super blind and missing it). It's pretty annoying to have to open up the Contact page, scroll to the empire, then click espionage.

    you can also do any of the things you usually do to open the diplomacy comms screen with an empire then click over to the espionage tab in the bottom left of that, like clicking their flag icon next to one of their colonies.

    Eh, unless it's an immediate neighbor, I think it's about the same difference scrolling through contacts vs scrolling around map. Maybe I'll try setting up control groups for their homeworlds when I have active operations against them.

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    YoshisummonsYoshisummons You have to let the dead vote, otherwise you'd just kill people you disagree with!Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Pailryder wrote: »
    i'm going to have to watch some how to videos and if anyone has recommendations please link them. i can't seem to get enough authority but everything i'm reading says i need to expand faster. also inevitably i am out of one resource whether food, energy, minerals, or alloys.
    The answer is to always expand faster pretty much in every patch of the game. If you're always low on basic resources it's important to prioritize minerals since they can easily be turned into food/energy districts(I always start the game with a mining station and first planet upgrade being a mineral district).
    As for actual helpful videos the Stefan one I link in the last post is absolutely worth watching as a how-to in min-maxing the economy.

    The game starts at 27:40 with his choice of government civics etc. and his opening 'build ordering' at 29:30.

    Yoshisummons on
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    MillMill Registered User regular
    Well decided to shelve the first playthrough for later because imperial militarist and fanatical materialist doog in charge of a hegemony would probably be wasted on being the crises, that's like prime real estate for being the galactic empire. Instead rolled a hivemind based on Haachama. All leaders are named Haachama, every named celestial body in the home system is also named Haachama and all colonies are named Haachama. Already had one case where the caravanners of the Numenistic Order or where like "we noticed we can add some mineral and energy districts to your world Haachma for 200 minerals," when I had 8 colonies. I went with it because I'm swimming in minerals and might make use of it, once I find which colony got the modifier. I did not go with devouring swarm but did turn down the traditions and tech costs. I need to see where everyone else is on traditions but I suspect this might end up being a hivemind patch; especially, if I'm ahead of everyone on pops as well. Sure I'm not stomping anyone yet on economy and tech but I'm getting crazy amounts of unity and not even at year fifty and I'm already on my 6th tradition tree. A big thing I'm noticed and I did see Stefan mention in the cold war recap is that it's fairly easy for hivemind to build pops if you get to hive warrens and a spawning pool up with a few districts because you can make use of early production techs to boost starbase structures that provide basic resources. I suspect the only reason, I'm not spanking anyone on tech right now is that most of my pops are in basic resource gathering, alloys and admin capacity production, which also provides unity.

    All that said, I'm running tree of life and I'm not sure cold world or bust is applicable to them. I've had to do things like buy food or get an agricultural district up to make sure my pops don't starve. Not really having much of an issue with energy and minerals is a bit crazy. Though it helps hiveminds that they don't have to worry about piracy, so that makes expanding out into new systems fairly easy. I figure once I get hiveworlds, I'll go for the crisis perk. I should be in a good spot where I'll definitely have the most clout in the galactic community and a solid fleet to hold off my neighbors long enough to start producing ships with minerals. Also laughing because in this game I've gotten first league, the rubricator system and apparently the system with the shielded world spawned as a cut off system adjacent to the caretakers, which I neighbor. I was the only one to be in a spot where the system only required me to skip one hyperlane, so not too expensive on influence and the caretakers killed the fleet you normally have to deal with. So I'll have 3 relic worlds, don't think I can turn those into hive worlds, but those are probably going to be my research hubs. Granted the last one near the caretakers is going to be tricky because they might attack me when I become the crisis.

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    TeriferinTeriferin Registered User regular
    From my run-through as the crisis, all the fallen empires will start demanding humiliation from you once you hit stage four of the crisis tree, and the nearest one will declare on you pretty shortly after that. Crisis ships are so strong that you should be able to mass the fleets needed to deal with their punitive expeditions before they can do too much damage.

    teriferin#1625
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    EvmaAlsarEvmaAlsar Birmingham, EnglandRegistered User regular
    Teriferin wrote: »
    From my run-through as the crisis, all the fallen empires will start demanding humiliation from you once you hit stage four of the crisis tree, and the nearest one will declare on you pretty shortly after that. Crisis ships are so strong that you should be able to mass the fleets needed to deal with their punitive expeditions before they can do too much damage.

    And even if for some reason they aren't enough, they're made of minerals so there's plenty more where they came from.

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