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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] Yesterday, The Troubles Seemed So Far Away

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Posts

  • KarlKarl Registered User regular
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    Solar wrote: »
    I am glad they are voting against that

    Hope that none of them break ranks. We'll see how many Tories rebel on it.

    If Labour follow through and officially oppose, then this is passing. The Tories rebels are fucking spineless. They won't risk losing.

    YOU'RE ALL BABIES.
    SO MUCH POTENTIAL TO WASTE.
    Koshian wrote: »
    JOKE'S ON YOU
    MY POTENTIAL IS ALREADY WASTED
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    you're not wrong

  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    Is there some issue with the UK vaccine passports that I'm not thinking about? I don't necessarily think their a bad idea.

    Gnome-InterruptusGnizmoLeztaShadowen
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Polly Toynbee did a really good op-ed about this today actually

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/06/sleeze-tory-governments-gift-keir-starmer-labour
    During the pandemic, all voters have wanted is to escape this horror. Listen to every conversation, and what you hear is vaccination dates, longing for unlocking, the chance to hug grandchildren and wistful hopes of holidays.

    “Why doesn’t he define himself?”, ask some critics impatiently, as Labour’s public approval ratings tumble. Where’s his vision? Do something! Reshuffle, turn left, shout louder, attack!

    What these critics forget is that politics is a seesaw with simple political physics. When the government is up, the opposition is down, and vice versa. This government now has an 86% approval rating – yes, 86% – on the vaccination programme, the only subject in town. Rob Ford, professor of political science at the University of Manchester, tells me he can think of virtually no similar approval rating happening before on the top issue of the day. Scientific genius and the efficiency of the NHS have gifted Boris Johnson an undeserved bounty. Parked at the other end of the seesaw, no amount of political vision could rescue Starmer from this downward bump.

    This is not a remotely unreasonable analysis. It is hard for the Leader of the Opposition to get their position across in the media in normal times, it is harder when there is a massive year+ long crisis that is consuming all media and electorate attention, and it is even harder when the sole thing that people give a shit about right now is getting out of the pandemic through a vaccination program that is going very well. Once we get some sort of semblance of normal life back and the Johnson gov's austerity measures 2.0 and corruption kick in I feel like there will be a fall back towards Starmer who can then start giving the government a really hard kicking when people are actually interested in listening to such things.

    And the direct comparison is the EU having countries break ranks and searching help for their vaccination efforts on their own. Winning the race to beat the pandemic is going to keep Brexit from losing it's luster for a good while. So what you describe is going to take longer.

    Commander Zoom
  • HugglesHuggles Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    Is there some issue with the UK vaccine passports that I'm not thinking about? I don't necessarily think their a bad idea.

    Mostly that they disqualify people from social activities on grounds they dispropotionately have no control over (vaccine supply), and that having a proof of vaccination isn't a certain proof of lack of infectiousness.

    SolarGvzbgulZilla360
  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    Huggles wrote: »
    zepherin wrote: »
    Is there some issue with the UK vaccine passports that I'm not thinking about? I don't necessarily think their a bad idea.

    Mostly that they disqualify people from social activities on grounds they dispropotionately have no control over (vaccine supply), and that having a proof of vaccination isn't a certain proof of lack of infectiousness.
    However if 100% of the people at an event have proof of vaccination, then that event isn't a super spreader event. It doesn't matter if someone is infectious, because they have nobody to infect.

    And if people without vaccines are disqualified from social activities, fantastic, we are in a pandemic, we shouldn't be going to social activities. That's how we keep spreading this virus.

    tbloxhamGnome-InterruptusCidTheSquid
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    Huggles wrote: »
    zepherin wrote: »
    Is there some issue with the UK vaccine passports that I'm not thinking about? I don't necessarily think their a bad idea.

    Mostly that they disqualify people from social activities on grounds they dispropotionately have no control over (vaccine supply), and that having a proof of vaccination isn't a certain proof of lack of infectiousness.
    However if 100% of the people at an event have proof of vaccination, then that event isn't a super spreader event. It doesn't matter if someone is infectious, because they have nobody to infect.

    And if people without vaccines are disqualified from social activities, fantastic, we are in a pandemic, we shouldn't be going to social activities. That's how we keep spreading this virus.

    Right, but it just incentivises "rich people and connected people get even more benefits".

    Modern day "both rich and poor are prohibited from sleeping under bridges".

    If vaccine distribution was based on equity and/or need, then vaccine passports would be fine, for the reason you note. But when they're not (and it's abundantly clear they're not), it's just another "fuck you, got mine" from the wealthy and those with powerful friends.

    Huggles
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited April 6
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    Vaccines in the UK are rolled out based on need. They go to the groups who are more at risk. As they should be. But that's not necessarily to say that people who get vaccinated deserve to be able to wander around and do more.

    Basically it is shit that we would end up with 21 year olds who can't go to the pub but their parents can because they haven't been offered a vaccination yet and might not be for months.

    That is clearly and markedly very unfair. We shouldn't have a system by which being vaccinated gives you more social freedoms. We all get vaccinated and we slowly roll out the social freedoms for everyone at the same time.

    Solar on
    MorganVZilla360
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    Based on need which is age, which doesn't help with the equality angle. Especially when it's not going to be people in those age groups who are doing the serving at these events.

  • Mr.WangtangMr.Wangtang Registered User regular
    I'm sure it will be fine*, when has a rapidly developed government IT project failed us before?

    *Will end up with some tory donor trousering a few million.

  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Vaccines in the UK are rolled out based on need. They go to the groups who are more at risk. As they should be. But that's not necessarily to say that people who get vaccinated deserve to be able to wander around and do more.

    Basically it is shit that we would end up with 21 year olds who can't go to the pub but their parents can because they haven't been offered a vaccination yet and might not be for months.

    That is clearly and markedly very unfair. We shouldn't have a system by which being vaccinated gives you more social freedoms. We all get vaccinated and we slowly roll out the social freedoms for everyone at the same time.

    We're in the middle of a debate on vaccine passports here in Norway right now, too.

    The argument for allowing the vaccinated to go out and do stuff is that that allows businesses to keep open and reduces economic impact of covid.

    The argument against is that it is unfair on the unvaccinated.

    (An opinion piece in today's newspaper argued that it's good that it's unfair, because for once it's in the old and sick's favour rather than the young and healthy, as (is argued) is usually tha case.)

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
    AldozepherinCidTheSquid
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    Solar wrote: »
    Vaccines in the UK are rolled out based on need. They go to the groups who are more at risk. As they should be. But that's not necessarily to say that people who get vaccinated deserve to be able to wander around and do more.

    Basically it is shit that we would end up with 21 year olds who can't go to the pub but their parents can because they haven't been offered a vaccination yet and might not be for months.

    That is clearly and markedly very unfair. We shouldn't have a system by which being vaccinated gives you more social freedoms. We all get vaccinated and we slowly roll out the social freedoms for everyone at the same time.

    We're in the middle of a debate on vaccine passports here in Norway right now, too.

    The argument for allowing the vaccinated to go out and do stuff is that that allows businesses to keep open and reduces economic impact of covid.

    The argument against is that it is unfair on the unvaccinated.

    (An opinion piece in today's newspaper argued that it's good that it's unfair, because for once it's in the old and sick's favour rather than the young and healthy, as (is argued) is usually tha case.)

    It wouldn't be as much of a problem if everyone is quickly being vaccinated, but for every day there's a group of haves going out to the pub and a group of have-nots being told to stay indoors the situation becomes more and more unfair. The focus on age is also frustrating: a lot of 30 and unders work in the service industry, at the supermarkets, as delivery guys etc etc, yet they are last in line to receive their jab. There is also a lot of finger pointing (in The Netherlands at least) of "kids going out to house parties" and that they are the sole reason why we have a curfew. It's easy to see one house party and say that all young adults are that irresponsible, but that's unfair.

    So to me it would make more sense to open up the place in a way that is fair to <30 people as we as everyone else. Here they are also experimenting with concerts and festivals where you need to do a test before going and take another one a few days after. Obviously this can't be done for the local pub or restaurant, but the government should think further ahead than just passports and never mind the unfairness of it all.

  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Aldo wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Vaccines in the UK are rolled out based on need. They go to the groups who are more at risk. As they should be. But that's not necessarily to say that people who get vaccinated deserve to be able to wander around and do more.

    Basically it is shit that we would end up with 21 year olds who can't go to the pub but their parents can because they haven't been offered a vaccination yet and might not be for months.

    That is clearly and markedly very unfair. We shouldn't have a system by which being vaccinated gives you more social freedoms. We all get vaccinated and we slowly roll out the social freedoms for everyone at the same time.

    We're in the middle of a debate on vaccine passports here in Norway right now, too.

    The argument for allowing the vaccinated to go out and do stuff is that that allows businesses to keep open and reduces economic impact of covid.

    The argument against is that it is unfair on the unvaccinated.

    (An opinion piece in today's newspaper argued that it's good that it's unfair, because for once it's in the old and sick's favour rather than the young and healthy, as (is argued) is usually tha case.)

    It wouldn't be as much of a problem if everyone is quickly being vaccinated, but for every day there's a group of haves going out to the pub and a group of have-nots being told to stay indoors the situation becomes more and more unfair. The focus on age is also frustrating: a lot of 30 and unders work in the service industry, at the supermarkets, as delivery guys etc etc, yet they are last in line to receive their jab. There is also a lot of finger pointing (in The Netherlands at least) of "kids going out to house parties" and that they are the sole reason why we have a curfew. It's easy to see one house party and say that all young adults are that irresponsible, but that's unfair.

    So to me it would make more sense to open up the place in a way that is fair to <30 people as we as everyone else. Here they are also experimenting with concerts and festivals where you need to do a test before going and take another one a few days after. Obviously this can't be done for the local pub or restaurant, but the government should think further ahead than just passports and never mind the unfairness of it all.

    One argument in favour of vaccine passports is that, if you attach tangible benefits to being vaccinated / tangible inconveniences to not being vaccinated, more people are likely to take it.

    If being a "vaccine sceptic" means you can't go to the movies or the pub, there'd be a lot fewer of them.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
    GiantGeek2020StarZapperzepherinGnome-InterruptusmonikerCidTheSquid
  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    So awesome
    Aldo wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Vaccines in the UK are rolled out based on need. They go to the groups who are more at risk. As they should be. But that's not necessarily to say that people who get vaccinated deserve to be able to wander around and do more.

    Basically it is shit that we would end up with 21 year olds who can't go to the pub but their parents can because they haven't been offered a vaccination yet and might not be for months.

    That is clearly and markedly very unfair. We shouldn't have a system by which being vaccinated gives you more social freedoms. We all get vaccinated and we slowly roll out the social freedoms for everyone at the same time.

    We're in the middle of a debate on vaccine passports here in Norway right now, too.

    The argument for allowing the vaccinated to go out and do stuff is that that allows businesses to keep open and reduces economic impact of covid.

    The argument against is that it is unfair on the unvaccinated.

    (An opinion piece in today's newspaper argued that it's good that it's unfair, because for once it's in the old and sick's favour rather than the young and healthy, as (is argued) is usually tha case.)

    It wouldn't be as much of a problem if everyone is quickly being vaccinated, but for every day there's a group of haves going out to the pub and a group of have-nots being told to stay indoors the situation becomes more and more unfair. The focus on age is also frustrating: a lot of 30 and unders work in the service industry, at the supermarkets, as delivery guys etc etc, yet they are last in line to receive their jab. There is also a lot of finger pointing (in The Netherlands at least) of "kids going out to house parties" and that they are the sole reason why we have a curfew. It's easy to see one house party and say that all young adults are that irresponsible, but that's unfair.

    So to me it would make more sense to open up the place in a way that is fair to <30 people as we as everyone else. Here they are also experimenting with concerts and festivals where you need to do a test before going and take another one a few days after. Obviously this can't be done for the local pub or restaurant, but the government should think further ahead than just passports and never mind the unfairness of it all.

    One argument in favour of vaccine passports is that, if you attach tangible benefits to being vaccinated / tangible inconveniences to not being vaccinated, more people are likely to take it.

    If being a "vaccine sceptic" means you can't go to the movies or the pub, there'd be a lot fewer of them.

    people actually having to put their money where their mouthes are?! How dare the government stop you from being a hypocrit!

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
    zepherin
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    Aldo wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Vaccines in the UK are rolled out based on need. They go to the groups who are more at risk. As they should be. But that's not necessarily to say that people who get vaccinated deserve to be able to wander around and do more.

    Basically it is shit that we would end up with 21 year olds who can't go to the pub but their parents can because they haven't been offered a vaccination yet and might not be for months.

    That is clearly and markedly very unfair. We shouldn't have a system by which being vaccinated gives you more social freedoms. We all get vaccinated and we slowly roll out the social freedoms for everyone at the same time.

    We're in the middle of a debate on vaccine passports here in Norway right now, too.

    The argument for allowing the vaccinated to go out and do stuff is that that allows businesses to keep open and reduces economic impact of covid.

    The argument against is that it is unfair on the unvaccinated.

    (An opinion piece in today's newspaper argued that it's good that it's unfair, because for once it's in the old and sick's favour rather than the young and healthy, as (is argued) is usually tha case.)

    It wouldn't be as much of a problem if everyone is quickly being vaccinated, but for every day there's a group of haves going out to the pub and a group of have-nots being told to stay indoors the situation becomes more and more unfair. The focus on age is also frustrating: a lot of 30 and unders work in the service industry, at the supermarkets, as delivery guys etc etc, yet they are last in line to receive their jab. There is also a lot of finger pointing (in The Netherlands at least) of "kids going out to house parties" and that they are the sole reason why we have a curfew. It's easy to see one house party and say that all young adults are that irresponsible, but that's unfair.

    So to me it would make more sense to open up the place in a way that is fair to <30 people as we as everyone else. Here they are also experimenting with concerts and festivals where you need to do a test before going and take another one a few days after. Obviously this can't be done for the local pub or restaurant, but the government should think further ahead than just passports and never mind the unfairness of it all.

    One argument in favour of vaccine passports is that, if you attach tangible benefits to being vaccinated / tangible inconveniences to not being vaccinated, more people are likely to take it.

    If being a "vaccine sceptic" means you can't go to the movies or the pub, there'd be a lot fewer of them.

    Fair, but how many people does this entail? And how many would be swayed by being disbarred from the pub and movie theater? I think a lot more decent research is needed and instead politicians like to go for the "everyone knows this" or "we gotta do SOMETHING" line of reasoning. It's all so unscientific, I guess.

    and again: if everyone would be quickly vaccinated it wouldn't be so bad.

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    So shitty
    As someone who's near the end of the queue for vaccine based on need, I'm honestly okay with it? From what I've seen it's not being touted as a legal requirement, so much as giving businesses a means to determine if people have been vaccinated or not, and decide what to do based on that.

    Like, yes it's unfair, but what about the last year has struck people as particularly fair? This feels like the best option out of a selection of extremely shitty choices, other than magically creating enough vaccine and capability to give everyone their jab tomorrow.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
    HerculePyroDizzy DGnome-InterruptusmonikerCidTheSquidForar
  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    ScoPol Twitter has been joking about this since Alba was launched. But he only went and fucknig did it:



    David Clegg is the editor of the Courier. Alex Salmond is a Russian Intelligence asset
    Alex Salmond on GMS says evidence for Russian interference in US elections "very slight" and refuses to say if he thinks Russia were behind the Salisbury poisoning.

    I have a thoughtful and infrequently updated blog about games http://whatithinkaboutwhenithinkaboutgames.wordpress.com/

    I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.

    Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
    ElldrenAimNetscapedanxMayabird
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    What's his angle on Russia? Is Alba being funded by an ex-KGB oil billionaire or something?

    Ticaldfjam
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Shitty
    I guess that's one way of differentiating yourself from the SNP.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
    Mojo_JojoRMS OceanicShadowenElldrenGiantGeek2020AimGnome-Interruptusmoniker
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    Bogart wrote: »
    What's his angle on Russia? Is Alba being funded by an ex-KGB oil billionaire or something?

    Salmond himself is funded by the Russian state. He literally has a talk show on Russia today, he's openly on the Russian state payroll.

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    Winky wrote: »
    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
    MorganVElldrenNetscapefedaykin666TicaldfjamGnome-InterruptusmonikerZilla360
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    I totally forgot about the talk show! Fucking big lol at that.

    RMS OceanicAldoJazzMorganVShadowenSolarLord_AsmodeusBurnageElldrenGiantGeek2020LordSolarMachariusAegisQanamilAimCroakerBCtzeentchlingTicaldfjamGnome-InterruptusmonikerZilla360
  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    Solar wrote: »
    That sounds sensible and grown-up

    We don't live in a nation of grown ups though.

    It can't be denied that the Tory's have stepped up their misinformation game in the last decade (following world wide trends). It's hard to say if the absurd corruption and austerity would make a dent in that, especially if the northern wall adopts a sunk cost attitude whereby not voting tory in the future means admitting they were wrong before.

  • HugglesHuggles Registered User regular
    .
    klemming wrote: »
    As someone who's near the end of the queue for vaccine based on need, I'm honestly okay with it? From what I've seen it's not being touted as a legal requirement, so much as giving businesses a means to determine if people have been vaccinated or not, and decide what to do based on that.

    Like, yes it's unfair, but what about the last year has struck people as particularly fair? This feels like the best option out of a selection of extremely shitty choices, other than magically creating enough vaccine and capability to give everyone their jab tomorrow.

    Not disagreeing with this, but it does kinda suck that we went into lockdown(s) largely in order to protect the lives of the most vulnerable (mostly the elderly), but under these proposals now they've been vaccinated they'll get to return to some kind of normality while the rest of us can't, for reasons beyond our control or influence. Like, maybe some return solidarity would be a rare welcome change.

  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    Now the boomers have been done and the "supply problems" have begun on que, expecting any kind of solidarity from them is a waste of time. This is the generation that personified "fuck you, got mine". They got theirs now so fuck us I guess.

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    Winky wrote: »
    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
    Rhesus PositiveHerculePyroSlacker1913jaziekBurnageElldrenSporkAndrewzekebeauNetscapeMayabirdTicaldfjamCidTheSquidMr Ray
  • Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    Agree with of your point but the supply issues are more down to other countries finally realising that sending most of the vaccine they make to the UK is a bad idea than anything preplanned. I do wonder what the government is going to give to India to get more of the vaccine, I suspect it will be a lot as the government's popularly depends on it.

  • ZiggymonZiggymon Registered User regular
    So shitty
    Creating a vaccine passport system will guarantee that some regional areas will gain priority over others. We are already seeing areas of the country with people as young as 21 with no health conditions getting the vaccine because the area has managed to get through all other age groups and been given far more supply than whats needed. While others have had projected supplies cut back and are still struggling to get through the 60 plus.

    We are also already seeing private health care services offering the vaccine to whoever is willing to pay up.

    If you live in a particular area of the country, are not wealthy or a celebrity then chances are this passport system will be used against you. Using a passport system has nothing to do with stopping anti vaccine crowds. The UK has some of the best adoption rates in the world.

    autono-wally, erotibot300
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    It would lead to situations where people are "allowed" to work behind the bar, but not go to pubs to enjoy themselves

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
    AldoSolarCasualElldrenJazzSporkAndrewMayabirdmonikerZilla360
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    So awesome
    tweeter is an ex think tank now lse guy but is just quoting ipsos mori figures



    looks like snp have mostly sailed thru this period entirely unscathed as the blessed sturgeon sails onward

    obF2Wuw.png
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    I'd be pretty okay with it if those turned out to be correct but... I take polling with a large pinch of salt these days.

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    Winky wrote: »
    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    So awesome
    i think in general you see a slow drop in the average snp support over the last few months from its high but nothing to suggest theres been any serious damage to the snp

    obF2Wuw.png
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    Under-30s in UK should be offered alternative Covid vaccine to AstraZeneca jab, says regulator.

    Guardian headline on the story that'll probably be the lead item on the news tonight. The regulator is the government’s vaccination advisory body.

  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    The whole AZ jab hubub is weird to me. Blood clots have shown up in around 30 people out of aprox 18 million uses, there's no strong evidence of a causal relationship but it seems to be causing a huge deal. Are you telling me that with all the other jabs you can't find two cases out of a million of pretty much anything you could think of?

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    Winky wrote: »
    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
    Gnome-InterruptusShadowenVishNub
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    So shitty
    Casual wrote: »
    The whole AZ jab hubub is weird to me. Blood clots have shown up in around 30 people out of aprox 18 million uses, there's no strong evidence of a causal relationship but it seems to be causing a huge deal. Are you telling me that with all the other jabs you can't find two cases out of a million of pretty much anything you could think of?
    Given it's coming from more than reactionary politicians and/or tabloids looking for a headline, I'm willing to believe there's more to it.
    Everyone's become internet experts on viruses and vaccines over the last year, but I'm trying to non-soundbite actually trust in the science. If people who do this stuff for a living say there's something to it and want to handle it a certain way, I'm going to trust their judgement over mine.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
    Shadow Demon
  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    Casual wrote: »
    The whole AZ jab hubub is weird to me. Blood clots have shown up in around 30 people out of aprox 18 million uses, there's no strong evidence of a causal relationship but it seems to be causing a huge deal. Are you telling me that with all the other jabs you can't find two cases out of a million of pretty much anything you could think of?

    It's a question of risk. As I understand the summary, the projected chance of blood clots (while very small) is higher than the chance of serious covid complications for the young and healthy .

    I have a thoughtful and infrequently updated blog about games http://whatithinkaboutwhenithinkaboutgames.wordpress.com/

    I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.

    Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    tweeter is an ex think tank now lse guy but is just quoting ipsos mori figures



    looks like snp have mostly sailed thru this period entirely unscathed as the blessed sturgeon sails onward

    You miss thr biggest lol which is on the list vote Russian Intelligence Asset Alexos Salmond Party gets 3% whilst the Greens hit an all time poll high of 12%.

    I have a thoughtful and infrequently updated blog about games http://whatithinkaboutwhenithinkaboutgames.wordpress.com/

    I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.

    Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    klemming wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    The whole AZ jab hubub is weird to me. Blood clots have shown up in around 30 people out of aprox 18 million uses, there's no strong evidence of a causal relationship but it seems to be causing a huge deal. Are you telling me that with all the other jabs you can't find two cases out of a million of pretty much anything you could think of?
    Given it's coming from more than reactionary politicians and/or tabloids looking for a headline, I'm willing to believe there's more to it.
    Everyone's become internet experts on viruses and vaccines over the last year, but I'm trying to non-soundbite actually trust in the science. If people who do this stuff for a living say there's something to it and want to handle it a certain way, I'm going to trust their judgement over mine.

    I totally agree, but my understanding is the scientists are saying it's fine, or at least there's no evidence it's not fine. A few government departments in a few countries have taken the decision that there's too high a chance it's not fine and a lot of newspapers are saying there's a problem.

    I could be misreading though anything covid or vaccine related is awash with misinformation and IANAD either.

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  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Casual wrote: »
    The whole AZ jab hubub is weird to me. Blood clots have shown up in around 30 people out of aprox 18 million uses, there's no strong evidence of a causal relationship but it seems to be causing a huge deal. Are you telling me that with all the other jabs you can't find two cases out of a million of pretty much anything you could think of?

    It's a question of risk. As I understand the summary, the projected chance of blood clots (while very small) is higher than the chance of serious covid complications for the young and healthy .

    This has been true (I think) but it's also worth being aware of the new variants. I wouldn't be surprised if it's very, very not true for the Brazilian variant, for example. I know here in BC we're getting a lot of warnings that young people are ending up in hospitals at high numbers because of it.

  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    The whole AZ jab hubub is weird to me. Blood clots have shown up in around 30 people out of aprox 18 million uses, there's no strong evidence of a causal relationship but it seems to be causing a huge deal. Are you telling me that with all the other jabs you can't find two cases out of a million of pretty much anything you could think of?

    It's a question of risk. As I understand the summary, the projected chance of blood clots (while very small) is higher than the chance of serious covid complications for the young and healthy .

    This has been true (I think) but it's also worth being aware of the new variants. I wouldn't be surprised if it's very, very not true for the Brazilian variant, for example. I know here in BC we're getting a lot of warnings that young people are ending up in hospitals at high numbers because of it.

    Yes, the caveat is at "low exposure scenarios". If Covid is more prevalent then the calculus changes and getting AstraZenica is better than not for the young.

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  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    We've also got a lot of doses from other companies coming in, Novovax etc. So it might also speed up the process which would be nice.

  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    Aldo wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Vaccines in the UK are rolled out based on need. They go to the groups who are more at risk. As they should be. But that's not necessarily to say that people who get vaccinated deserve to be able to wander around and do more.

    Basically it is shit that we would end up with 21 year olds who can't go to the pub but their parents can because they haven't been offered a vaccination yet and might not be for months.

    That is clearly and markedly very unfair. We shouldn't have a system by which being vaccinated gives you more social freedoms. We all get vaccinated and we slowly roll out the social freedoms for everyone at the same time.

    We're in the middle of a debate on vaccine passports here in Norway right now, too.

    The argument for allowing the vaccinated to go out and do stuff is that that allows businesses to keep open and reduces economic impact of covid.

    The argument against is that it is unfair on the unvaccinated.

    (An opinion piece in today's newspaper argued that it's good that it's unfair, because for once it's in the old and sick's favour rather than the young and healthy, as (is argued) is usually tha case.)

    It wouldn't be as much of a problem if everyone is quickly being vaccinated, but for every day there's a group of haves going out to the pub and a group of have-nots being told to stay indoors the situation becomes more and more unfair. The focus on age is also frustrating: a lot of 30 and unders work in the service industry, at the supermarkets, as delivery guys etc etc, yet they are last in line to receive their jab. There is also a lot of finger pointing (in The Netherlands at least) of "kids going out to house parties" and that they are the sole reason why we have a curfew. It's easy to see one house party and say that all young adults are that irresponsible, but that's unfair.

    So to me it would make more sense to open up the place in a way that is fair to <30 people as we as everyone else. Here they are also experimenting with concerts and festivals where you need to do a test before going and take another one a few days after. Obviously this can't be done for the local pub or restaurant, but the government should think further ahead than just passports and never mind the unfairness of it all.

    One argument in favour of vaccine passports is that, if you attach tangible benefits to being vaccinated / tangible inconveniences to not being vaccinated, more people are likely to take it.

    If being a "vaccine sceptic" means you can't go to the movies or the pub, there'd be a lot fewer of them.

    Fair, but how many people does this entail? And how many would be swayed by being disbarred from the pub and movie theater? I think a lot more decent research is needed and instead politicians like to go for the "everyone knows this" or "we gotta do SOMETHING" line of reasoning. It's all so unscientific, I guess.

    and again: if everyone would be quickly vaccinated it wouldn't be so bad.
    People hate being not allowed to do something. To a spectacular extent. One of Colorado’s most effective means of collecting child support was suspending people’s hunting&fishing license until they paid up fully. It increased compliance by about 5%.

    I would be ok for a similar increase in vaccine compliance.

    AldoRhesus PositiveElldrenmonikerForar
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