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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] Yesterday, The Troubles Seemed So Far Away

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Posts

  • Mr.WangtangMr.Wangtang Registered User regular
    Give it another 24 hours and the only thing that will be in the media is the pubs opening on Monday. Cheers.

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    First one to stop clapping mourning gets sent to gulag.

    Commander Zoom on
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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    So shitty
    All the overblown coverage is actually a brilliant way to help the country grieve and move on.
    It's gotten the country from 'oh that's a bit sad, but he was 99 years old' to 'oh god we get it, he's dead, just move on already' in record time.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
    Commander ZoomRhesus PositiveGiantGeek2020Gnome-Interruptus
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Anything good to watch on PPC1?

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Bogart wrote: »
    Dunking on an ancient white privileged guy who was a bit racist is the easiest way to accumulate those all important edgy but righteous online points. I’ve seen that telegram joke about fifty times now.

    The coverage has been ridiculously over the top but predictable given the current flag shagger atmosphere the government has created.

    I suppose for me, the issue is that it's difficult to take seriously the idea that many people are earnestly grieving,outside obviously family and people that knew him personally.

    The jokes and memes are just part and parcel of a famous person dying being part of the news cycle.

    japan on
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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    After Bowie died you couldn’t move for people saying they were gutted. Same with Robin Williams, Prince, etc. For folk older than us I think the Royals are a different thing, something they feel far more of a connection to.

    The tabs will rend their garments and savage anyone who says otherwise, and I think most people’s “grief” is just feeling a bit sad and thinking about the Queen losing a husband of seven decades.

    lonelyahavaGiantGeek2020JazzmonikerShadow DemonSolarCommander ZoomzepherinZilla360Dis'ElldrenMartini_Philosopher
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    I can see how a musician or a comedian could be an important and impactful presence in someone's life, though. Trying to imagine Prince Philip being as personally significant definitely strains the limits of my ability to empathise.

    CasualShadowenUncle_BalsamicRingoMartini_Philosopher
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    People had a parasocial relationship with the man. He was constant presence in people's lives for 70 years. He was a regular in their news coverage for all that time. It creates connections with people and that connection has now been severed.

    Of course a lot of people are going to be sad. Just as they would be sad if Corrie and Eastenders aired their last episode tomorrow.

    The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
    Gnome-Interruptus
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    It’s definitely a generational thing.

    lonelyahavaBurnageSolarCommander ZoomzepherinTicaldfjamZilla360No-Quarter
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    I wonder if they'll do the Philip coverage on gogglebox, or if that would be considered beyond the pale

  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    japan wrote: »
    I wonder if they'll do the Philip coverage on gogglebox, or if that would be considered beyond the pale

    Have a black and white montage of all the families shedding patriotic tears

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
    SporkAndrewzepherinTicaldfjamZilla360
  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/inadequate-man-trolled-jess-phillips-20356857
    An "inadequate" man who sent Birmingham MP Jess Phillips more than 300 abusive and threatening emails - including one describing it as "appropriate" for her to be killed in a terrorist attack on the House of Commons - has been jailed.

    "You are an inadequate man who cannot cope with the reality of having reached your fifties without ever really achieving much, save for acquiring some criminal convictions for violent and abusive behaviour, and a habit of drinking too much alcohol and sitting at your keyboard, venting your frustration at others who in your view have the temerity to put themselves in positions of public service and to hold views with which you do not agree."

    Fuck....

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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    The judge then also sentenced the man to have his every word repeated back to him in a high pitched sing song voice followed by aloud DURRRR for a period of five years.

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  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    The Brighton angle is doing me a befuddlement

    See also this attempt to dunk on Keir Starmer, in which they depict their candidate, a Mancunian standing in Hartlepool, as talking like a Geordie.


    For me, the part that oversteps from cringe to outright insulting about this lot is their focus on depicting the North as some homogenous 'Northumbrian' land, astro-turfing all the local variations and identities. I'm from County Durham; whilst its more similar to Northumberland than it is to say, Kent, its still a different place who's inhabitants wouldn't thank you for confusing them with the geordies, mackems or tykes.

    They're the kind of people who'd spend an age picking out just the right flat cap to wear to the café.

    There is a case that a lack of a coherent 'northern' political block has been to those region's detriments (northern urban vote just being fuel for the islington labour set's schemes), and been a hindrance to the kind of economic specialisation that helped cities in france and germany move to modern industrial models.

    ...but this is not the way to get around that.

  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    So Boris Johnson's sudden decision not to do a lockdown came after being advised by an Oxford epidemiologist who gave false information after being bribed by a Tory billionaire couple. The article makes it sound like Johnson was duped by rosy information, but since everybody else was saying something else, and then he listens to the one person who's saying what he wants to hear, I'm not holding him blameless one bit.

    It's just that there's a lot more blame to spread around. Johnson AND the von Opels AND Sunetra Gupta should all get blame for B.1.1.7 being generated.

    GiantGeek2020TicaldfjamLordSolarMachariustynicRingoFencingsaxmonikerShadowenZilla360NetscapeSporkAndrewElldrenMartini_PhilosopherGnome-Interruptus
  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    edited April 2021
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    S. Gupta was saying we should fully reopen with no ill effect back in MAY LAST YEAR.

    She is a terrible person.

    Alistair Hutton on
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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    That Guardian article which paints Boris as being unwilling to do anything possibly unpopular until the very moment not doing it is objectively worse still looks like a good summary of him. Especially the anecdote of his apparently writing letters of support for both sides of the Heathrow expansion argument.

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  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    That Guardian article which paints Boris as being unwilling to do anything possibly unpopular until the very moment not doing it is objectively worse still looks like a good summary of him. Especially the anecdote of his apparently writing letters of support for both sides of the Heathrow expansion argument.

    Hell, it's well known he wrote articles in support of both sides of the Brexit argument before deciding to support Leave.

    I remember, with rising bile in my throat, how the media seemed to be on absolute tenterhooks waiting to see which side "Boris" would come out supporting.

    Rhesus PositivealtidFencingsaxdanxmonikerShadowen
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    Nice to see Alba party activists not wasting any time in going completely off the deep end



    (John Nicolson is an SNP MP, Ross Greer a Green MSP)

    It'll be interesting to see if this does actually lead to defamation action. They've gone after some very high profile charities, including Stonewall.

    Incidentally, the Malcolm Clark in the screenshots is that Malcolm Clark, of LGB Alliance infamy (a transphobic pressure group which appears lavishly funded from no clear source)

    japan on
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  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    This is a concerted effort, that I've seen started in the usual Bannon-affiliated places. It's probably part of a play to divide-and-conquer each part of lgbtqi+ separately.

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
    Netscapetynic
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    Definitely

    I think the interesting thing here is that the alba party and their activists are doubling down on a specific and demonstrably false claim (that a number of named LGBT activist groups are trying to have the age of consent reduced to 10)

    They may even believe it, as it seems to be based on a particular misreading of a couple of sources, by conflating medical consent with sexual consent, applying a definition of "adolescent" from an unrelated source, and misrepresenting or misunderstanding the issues around the criminalisation of sexual behaviour between kids close to but under the age of consent

    Elldren
  • CaptainBeyondCaptainBeyond Registered User regular
    So awesome
    Dis' wrote: »
    The Brighton angle is doing me a befuddlement

    See also this attempt to dunk on Keir Starmer, in which they depict their candidate, a Mancunian standing in Hartlepool, as talking like a Geordie.


    For me, the part that oversteps from cringe to outright insulting about this lot is their focus on depicting the North as some homogenous 'Northumbrian' land, astro-turfing all the local variations and identities. I'm from County Durham; whilst its more similar to Northumberland than it is to say, Kent, its still a different place who's inhabitants wouldn't thank you for confusing them with the geordies, mackems or tykes.

    They're the kind of people who'd spend an age picking out just the right flat cap to wear to the café.

    There is a case that a lack of a coherent 'northern' political block has been to those region's detriments (northern urban vote just being fuel for the islington labour set's schemes), and been a hindrance to the kind of economic specialisation that helped cities in france and germany move to modern industrial models.

    ...but this is not the way to get around that.

    Oh, I totally agree, but these identities are important, and have real world implications - the last attempt to devolve powers to a potential northern bloc ended because the people of Sunderland were unhappy that the offices for said potential bloc would have been in Newcastle/Gateshead.

    Uniting the north is possible, and as you say, would be hugely beneficial, but it is so far beyond this lot the hubris of it makes my head spin.

  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited April 2021
    [hollow screaming intensifies]

    BBC decided to cancel Friday night programming to air 24 hours of programs about Prince Philip. So many people were upset that the BBC had to open a special online form to handle the complaints. They got so many that they then took down the special form. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/apr/11/bbc-pulls-prince-philip-online-form-after-complaints-hit-peak
    BBC Two lost two-thirds of its audience, with an average of only 340,000 people tuning in at any time between 7pm and 11pm. ITV also experienced a drop after it ditched its Friday night schedule to broadcast tributes to the duke.

    edit: the think tanks are having the usual thonks:
    Ben Harris-Quinney, the chairman of the conservative Bow Group thinktank, accused the corporation of “prompting a response” by establishing the complaint form.

    “When the BBC put out things that are more in accordance with figures of the left, no such opportunity to complain is promoted. It is quite clear that there is an imbalance,” he said.

    Echo on
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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    You can't appease the psychotic flag-shagging right wing and it's a waste of time to try, though with Johnson appointed Tories in the two most powerful positions within the BBC that's what they'll do.

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  • jaziekjaziek Registered User regular
    So awesome
    Bogart wrote: »
    You can't appease the psychotic flag-shagging right wing and it's a waste of time to try

    somebody might want to tell that to keir starmer

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  • Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    There is always an oppotunity to complain through various channels (OFFCOM for one) so I am not sure what he is complaining about. The prince Phillip page was probably made cos they knew it was going to get a lot of attention.

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    jaziek wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    You can't appease the psychotic flag-shagging right wing and it's a waste of time to try

    somebody might want to tell that to keir starmer

    I don't think that Keir Starmer is doing that

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    There wasn't any right answer for the BBC here. Cancelling all programming was an overreaction, sure, but I can also imagine the wailing if they hadn't. Then there's the matter of how do you treat the death of the royal consort? There isn't really any precedent for it in modern times and the media landscape has changed massively in the intervening years. I suspect the BBC simply decided it was safer to overdo it.

    klemmingJazzZilla360zepherin
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    Well also there is the issue where society can't agree on the proper reaction for this

    For older generations, the BBC is acting appropriately

    For younger generations, many of them don't give a toss about the royal family

    But also many do

    I feel like on balance it's irritating but it's not the end of the world. It's 24 hours of TV. Admittedly I don't actually watch TV so it doesn't impact me at all, but still. And the population does largely support the monarchy

    zepherin
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    So shitty
    My parents are of the general opinion that stopping programming on one channel would have been reasonable, but both was overkill.
    (I'm in the 'I live on the internet now, why do I care?' camp)

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
    CasualBurnage
  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    I think there was a fairly straightforward happy medium to strike. Cancel BBC1's schedule and have that covering it continuously, simulcast with BBC News channel if needed. Shuffle stuff over to BBC2 if required, like they already do when there's a government Covid press conference. Don't shut down BBC4 altogether, but put a chyron or overlay at the bottom if you like. Maybe put that on BBC2 as well. Put bulletins at the top of the hour on the radio stations (and on the half hour too for stations with older demographics; maybe have one national radio station have continuous coverage and have the others point that station out in their bulletins for listeners who will want it).

    Basically direct people who want blanket coverage to where they can find it, stick that coverage on your biggest TV channel and a major radio station for people who do want it, but don't shut everything down altogether.

    But it really does feel like they were desperate to avoid getting savaged by most of the print press, and also practicing for when the Queen passes. That will not get toned down due to this reaction, of course, but with no disrespect to Philip, it'll be a much bigger deal for more people than this was.

    Jazz on
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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    klemming wrote: »
    My parents are of the general opinion that stopping programming on one channel would have been reasonable, but both was overkill.
    (I'm in the 'I live on the internet now, why do I care?' camp)

    It was both and BBC4 was wholly taken off air. Plus the radio stations switched to an all-dirge playlist all the time.

    It was a lot, aiming to play as safe as possible for the watching Tory powers, and it still didn't appease them because complaints were allowed.

    JazzCasualCouscousmonikerklemmingLord_AsmodeusElldrenGnome-Interruptus
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    Solar wrote: »
    jaziek wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    You can't appease the psychotic flag-shagging right wing and it's a waste of time to try

    somebody might want to tell that to keir starmer

    I don't think that Keir Starmer is doing that

    Ehhhhh.... He kind of is? I can actually see why on paper it would seem like an idea of sorts to go the polar opposite direction from Corbyn re nationalism. It seems like it would draw a neat line under his disaster of a tenure and make it crystal clear Labour is going in another direction. I can also see the cynical electoral calculus at play in doing what he needs to do to bring back the northern boomers who defected to the Tories in the last election and handed Boris this insane majority.

    All that said... In practice it looks lame and stupid and doomed to failure. It annoys and turns off people like us who Labour will also need to win an election. Maybe this is just the way it has to be though. A far left spasm to throw the party in to the cold, a jingoistic rightward correction to try and shed the stink of the trots, another period of irrelevance as no one wants that either, followed by the inevitable centrist dad party that is the only way labours broad church has a hope of unifying for long enough to win an election.

    Casual on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular

    I see even the billboards are mourning

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    [hollow screaming intensifies]
    Casual wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    jaziek wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    You can't appease the psychotic flag-shagging right wing and it's a waste of time to try

    somebody might want to tell that to keir starmer

    I don't think that Keir Starmer is doing that

    Ehhhhh.... He kind of is? I can actually see why on paper it would seem like an idea of sorts to go the polar opposite direction from Corbyn re nationalism. It seems like it would draw a neat line under his disaster of a tenure and make it crystal clear Labour is going in another direction. I can also see the cynical electoral calculus at play in doing what he needs to do to bring back the northern boomers who defected to the Tories in the last election and handed Boris this insane majority.

    All that said... In practice it looks lame and stupid and doomed to failure. It annoys and turns off people like us who Labour will also need to win an election. Maybe this is just the way it has to be though. A far left spasm to throw the party in to the cold, a jingoistic rightward correction to try and shed the stink of the trots, another period of irrelevance as no one wants that either, followed by the inevitable centrist dad party that is the only way labours broad church has a hope of unifying for long enough to win an election.

    I think that centre-left Dad politics (with more leftwing policies) is basically what Starmer is going for

    I think they think that probably Starmer needs to convincingly be seen to not hate the UK, although yeah to what extent that will work is pretty questionable

    CroakerBC
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    jaziek wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    You can't appease the psychotic flag-shagging right wing and it's a waste of time to try

    somebody might want to tell that to keir starmer

    I don't think that Keir Starmer is doing that

    Ehhhhh.... He kind of is? I can actually see why on paper it would seem like an idea of sorts to go the polar opposite direction from Corbyn re nationalism. It seems like it would draw a neat line under his disaster of a tenure and make it crystal clear Labour is going in another direction. I can also see the cynical electoral calculus at play in doing what he needs to do to bring back the northern boomers who defected to the Tories in the last election and handed Boris this insane majority.

    All that said... In practice it looks lame and stupid and doomed to failure. It annoys and turns off people like us who Labour will also need to win an election. Maybe this is just the way it has to be though. A far left spasm to throw the party in to the cold, a jingoistic rightward correction to try and shed the stink of the trots, another period of irrelevance as no one wants that either, followed by the inevitable centrist dad party that is the only way labours broad church has a hope of unifying for long enough to win an election.

    I think that centre-left Dad politics (with more leftwing policies) is basically what Starmer is going for

    I think they think that probably Starmer needs to convincingly be seen to not hate the UK, although yeah to what extent that will work is pretty questionable

    It probably doesn't help that a substantial part of the party still hates him for replacing Saint Corbyn and "turning Labour into Red Tories".

    altidHerculePyroSolarRandomEncounterShadowenElldren
  • PerduraboPerdurabo Registered User regular
    I think the vaccination numbers coming out was the first time it's really hit me how properly old the country is. 32m people are to have a first dose by the middle of the month, and it's only been offered to the over 50s, front line workers and the vulnerable. Starmer needs an awful lot of older voters.

    Casual
  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    It's definitely not just that Starmer is hated by the staunch Corbynites. I get the impression that quite a few people who were happy to give Starmer a chance are not feeling it. While it's relatively clear what he doesn't stand for - a Corbyn-style Labour - what is it he actually does stand for?

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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    The absolute worst shower of bastards imaginable
    While the government was doing nothing but fucking up it was enough to have a Labour leader to point that out. Now the vaccination program is going well and things are opening up and people are feeling more optimistic Starmer needs something more, and so far it isn't there.

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  • BethrynBethryn Unhappiness is Mandatory Registered User regular
    Labour's going to look bad in the polls for the entire duration of vaccinations, all else being equal. Boris is seen to be delivering, and that's going to persist for months.

    ...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
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This discussion has been closed.