Seems like in Puerto Rico statehood won in what seems like a legit referendum. Dems need the senate to do anything about it right?
correct, need both houses
life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
So to lay this out, before the election I was willing to give Dems the benefit of the doubt in 2016. I was of the thought that policy doesn't really matter to voters, that the economic anxiety issue was overplayed and instead it was mostly racism, and that moderate democrats and Joe Biden were more electable and voting for them sucked but at least they'd provide some power, and that dems don't win because of low turn out, 3rd party votes, voter suppression and what not.
All of that turned out to be wrong with this election. Voter suppression doesn't matter when you have the highest turnout since 1900 and the major losses (like the senate for example) are statewide elections. 3rd party votes this election were tiny, so that doesn't matter either. One could say "oh well it matters in Wisconsin/Michigan/Pennsylvania/Arizona/Georgia/Nevada" but not really? It could be just as likely that in 2016 people didn't want to vote for a women and that small number switched to Dem because it was Joe Biden. Which is a problem, for sure, but doesn't address the fact that a significant swath of those states still voted for Republicans. Which comes to electability -- the Democratic electorate has no fucking clue what is or is not electable. After trying to run more to the right and more moderate, which actually lost them seats while progressives and leftists picked up seats, maybe they should try running more to the left to try something different. Racism is still a significant issue, for sure, but Dems aren't going to convince the racists by saying they're racist, they'll convince them to vote for Dems by focusing on policy and other things with good advertising. If the super racists/GOP is going to call Dems socialist and people believe that and don't vote for them because they're socialist, whatever, but maybe they should actually run on those kind of platforms to get people better policy which is popular as demonstrated by more people voting for $15 minimum wage in Florida than either candidate, and the state of Mississippi passing partial marijuana legalization. This is rambling, but the point is that Dem leadership needs to try something fucking different now, because running moderate/right isn't going to actually solve their problems, and neither will demographic change if you don't convince those people to vote for you on the basis of something other than "not that guy"
On Pelosi, I have many thoughts, but let's start with one. When you (leader of the caucus for 18 years) support every effort to make sure progressives face increasingly more difficult hurdles to getting elected in the Democratic party, maybe you don't get any credit for only facing challengers from the right. It means you, along with your colleagues in the leadership, have been successful at what you set out to do. Whatever merits she she deserved can be argued, but that one is 100% not a point in her favor.
Man, with how people are talking, we just lost everything.
Things I think are true:
The party needs to get their shit together
Leftist policies should be more embraced on broadly popular topics like marijuana legalization etc.
The party needs to appreciate their young and black contributors more
Schumer needs to step down
Things I think aren't true:
Sanders would have done better
We're screwed
This is a lost presidency
The next 4 years are about fixing and rebuilding as a nation. Most of the damage was in the exec branch so it's eminently fixable in the current setup. 2022 has a great opportunity to take the Senate, but part of the picture is outreach and continual investment in state level infrastructure.
From my limited viewpoint, states don't coordinate that well and don't have a lot of foundation in purple and red states. GA proved you can move the needle if you work for it, so the focus needs to be on enabling and accelerating those efforts, as well as candidate identification and support.
From a national party perspective, I think they should stop ratfucking the progressives and focus efforts on driving wedges within the fractured Republicans rather than this continual "not a true leftist" fight that's ever present.
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Not every state is going to be full of AOCs.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
We need people who know how to live in an Instagram/Whatsapp world and not feel uncomfortable doing it.
Trump had a lot of fucking problems, but absolutely playing Twitter like a fiddle for 4 years for what amounts to free campaigning/propaganda is not one of them.
I actually disagree pretty strongly that not every state can be or is full of AOCs. She's not some regional leftist microcosm, she's a generation thats been actively ignored and marginalized. We could do better in that regard, more people like her are out there.
I actually disagree pretty strongly that not every state can be or is full of AOCs. She's not some regional leftist microcosm, she's a generation thats been actively ignored and marginalized. We could do better in that regard, more people like her are out there.
My point is don't wait for perfect - start with decent-good and appreciate when things turn out great. The more of a feeder system is in place and the more people have access to help and audience, the more we'll find.
I think that at this point, the post-mortem analysis is somewhat premature. We still have a week of election results to come in and most of our analysis of demographic shifts are based on exit polling, which is almost entirely useless this election because the people who can take exit polls (in-person election day voters) are not at all representative of the general public.
There are definitely some lessons that can immediately be taken from this; connecting Democrats better with broadly popular policy like drug legalization and minimum wage increases is obvious, as is being better at utilizing social media. But I think "we completely failed to capture the minority vote" is something that we should let the chips fall a little bit more before we declare it to be true.
I ate an engineer
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I actually disagree pretty strongly that not every state can be or is full of AOCs. She's not some regional leftist microcosm, she's a generation thats been actively ignored and marginalized. We could do better in that regard, more people like her are out there.
It's why we're seeing people like David Hog or Greta Thunberg
Trumpism isn't going away. Trumpism lost this time because it was incompetent. 2022 and 2024 are very scary thoughts right now, and if Dems don't get their shit together to effectively campaign they're going to lose again, and badly.
I actually disagree pretty strongly that not every state can be or is full of AOCs. She's not some regional leftist microcosm, she's a generation thats been actively ignored and marginalized. We could do better in that regard, more people like her are out there.
My point is don't wait for perfect - start with decent-good and appreciate when things turn out great. The more of a feeder system is in place and the more people have access to help and audience, the more we'll find.
What does "dont wait for perfect" look like in practical terms to you?
Appeal to very real economic concerns. Have policies that are easy to understand and doesn't have a cutout. As soon as there are cutouts conservatives immediately assume that cutout is for the others and not them.
I have no idea why a charismatic, smart conservative would want to be President rather than a pundit or an executive. The monetary payoff isn't that high and you get so much scrutiny for the rest of your life, hard to do shady international deals. I don't buy that we'll see a brilliant Trump 2.0, it makes no sense to seek the office unless you're a raging narcissist with an existing national profile or a career politician. Whoever it is should have a profile already, so where are they?
Trumpism isn't going away. Trumpism lost this time because it was incompetent. 2022 and 2024 are very scary thoughts right now, and if Dems don't get their shit together to effectively campaign they're going to lose again, and badly.
AOC said something similar in her Vanity Fair interview
I have no idea why a charismatic, smart conservative would want to be President rather than a pundit or an executive. The monetary payoff isn't that high and you get so much scrutiny for the rest of your life, hard to do shady international deals. I don't buy that we'll see a brilliant Trump 2.0, it makes no sense to seek the office unless you're a raging narcissist with an existing national profile or a career politician. Whoever it is should have a profile already, so where are they?
I think that at this point, the post-mortem analysis is somewhat premature. We still have a week of election results to come in and most of our analysis of demographic shifts are based on exit polling, which is almost entirely useless this election because the people who can take exit polls (in-person election day voters) are not at all representative of the general public.
There are definitely some lessons that can immediately be taken from this; connecting Democrats better with broadly popular policy like drug legalization and minimum wage increases is obvious, as is being better at utilizing social media. But I think "we completely failed to capture the minority vote" is something that we should let the chips fall a little bit more before we declare it to be true.
I’m definitely holding off on specifics until I get more data. But speaking of that, it’s more than a little disappointing that our Democratic officials who got their man, and got the campaign they desired, are already blaming “socialism” and “defund the police” for their own disappointment. You don’t get to be in charge, do the thing you said was the way to go, and then blame me for it. I don’t have the right words for it, but it’s not leaving me in something that’s close to a good mood.
I think that at this point, the post-mortem analysis is somewhat premature. We still have a week of election results to come in and most of our analysis of demographic shifts are based on exit polling, which is almost entirely useless this election because the people who can take exit polls (in-person election day voters) are not at all representative of the general public.
There are definitely some lessons that can immediately be taken from this; connecting Democrats better with broadly popular policy like drug legalization and minimum wage increases is obvious, as is being better at utilizing social media. But I think "we completely failed to capture the minority vote" is something that we should let the chips fall a little bit more before we declare it to be true.
I’m definitely holding off on specifics until I get more data. But speaking of that, it’s more than a little disappointing that our Democratic officials who got their man, and got the campaign they desired, are already blaming “socialism” and “defund the police” for their own disappointment. You don’t get to be in charge, do the thing you said was the way to go, and then blame me for it. I don’t have the right words for it, but it’s not leaving me in something that’s close to a good mood.
Come on man at least its funny when the literal ex CIA agent blames socialism for her tight race.
Styrofoam Sammich on
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I actually disagree pretty strongly that not every state can be or is full of AOCs. She's not some regional leftist microcosm, she's a generation thats been actively ignored and marginalized. We could do better in that regard, more people like her are out there.
My point is don't wait for perfect - start with decent-good and appreciate when things turn out great. The more of a feeder system is in place and the more people have access to help and audience, the more we'll find.
What does "dont wait for perfect" look like in practical terms to you?
Voting for Joe Biden because nobody else was close to good enough to get elected
I have no idea why a charismatic, smart conservative would want to be President rather than a pundit or an executive. The monetary payoff isn't that high and you get so much scrutiny for the rest of your life, hard to do shady international deals. I don't buy that we'll see a brilliant Trump 2.0, it makes no sense to seek the office unless you're a raging narcissist with an existing national profile or a career politician. Whoever it is should have a profile already, so where are they?
Deadeyed desire for power.
Yeah, that's what I mean. If you want deadeyed power, do not go into politics. Only sociopaths seek power in office. It is a road filled with scrutiny and obligation and actual work.
I really do think everyone in politics is either a true believer or a little bit off, especially the 3+ termers.
I am skeptical of any prediction of who runs in 2024. I don't think we can count on it being a Trumplike figure.
Tumin on
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Powerpuppiesdrinking coffee in themountain cabinRegistered Userregular
I think that at this point, the post-mortem analysis is somewhat premature. We still have a week of election results to come in and most of our analysis of demographic shifts are based on exit polling, which is almost entirely useless this election because the people who can take exit polls (in-person election day voters) are not at all representative of the general public.
There are definitely some lessons that can immediately be taken from this; connecting Democrats better with broadly popular policy like drug legalization and minimum wage increases is obvious, as is being better at utilizing social media. But I think "we completely failed to capture the minority vote" is something that we should let the chips fall a little bit more before we declare it to be true.
I’m definitely holding off on specifics until I get more data. But speaking of that, it’s more than a little disappointing that our Democratic officials who got their man, and got the campaign they desired, are already blaming “socialism” and “defund the police” for their own disappointment. You don’t get to be in charge, do the thing you said was the way to go, and then blame me for it. I don’t have the right words for it, but it’s not leaving me in something that’s close to a good mood.
Yes this sounds insane to me. What more could have been done to blunt those effects?!?
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Giggles_FunsworthBlight on DiscourseBay Area SprawlRegistered Userregular
I'm actually a lot rosier on the outcome than a lot of folks, and have been. Especially with both the Senate seats in Georgia going to runoff, I think there's a real good chance we can get a Democratic controlled Senate if we turn those elections into a referendum on COVID relief.
I'm still mad as hell they threw away a chance at Texas though. It was close. Closer than I can ever remember it being. And I think Biden would have closed there too if he hadn't alienated Latinx activists early on and neglected to do Spanish language outreach on the border. It's just foolhardy and arrogant to treat people like you're entitled to their vote, it was an unforced error that didn't need to happen. I'm mostly bummed because I think once that threshold was broken for a lot of people they would have been like my dad and been a hell of a lot more likely to vote for Democrats going forward. I hope it hasn't done damage to those coalitions that lasts past this election.
I actually disagree pretty strongly that not every state can be or is full of AOCs. She's not some regional leftist microcosm, she's a generation thats been actively ignored and marginalized. We could do better in that regard, more people like her are out there.
My point is don't wait for perfect - start with decent-good and appreciate when things turn out great. The more of a feeder system is in place and the more people have access to help and audience, the more we'll find.
What does "dont wait for perfect" look like in practical terms to you?
Voting for Joe Biden because nobody else was close to good enough to get elected
I think people are discounting a sneak eating its tail here
You're saying "Biden is most electable so primary voters voted for him" when it could also be "primary voters believed Biden to be most electable so they voted for him"
And I'm willing to believe it was a lot more of the second, not as much of the first, and that maybe no one knows what is actually electable given Biden did about as same as Clinton
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I think that at this point, the post-mortem analysis is somewhat premature. We still have a week of election results to come in and most of our analysis of demographic shifts are based on exit polling, which is almost entirely useless this election because the people who can take exit polls (in-person election day voters) are not at all representative of the general public.
There are definitely some lessons that can immediately be taken from this; connecting Democrats better with broadly popular policy like drug legalization and minimum wage increases is obvious, as is being better at utilizing social media. But I think "we completely failed to capture the minority vote" is something that we should let the chips fall a little bit more before we declare it to be true.
I’m definitely holding off on specifics until I get more data. But speaking of that, it’s more than a little disappointing that our Democratic officials who got their man, and got the campaign they desired, are already blaming “socialism” and “defund the police” for their own disappointment. You don’t get to be in charge, do the thing you said was the way to go, and then blame me for it. I don’t have the right words for it, but it’s not leaving me in something that’s close to a good mood.
Come on man at least its funny when the literal ex CIA agent blames socialism for her tight race.
I mean, that was Cantor's district, so she isn't exactly going to be progressive.
This is exactly what "don't let perfect be the enemy of good" is talking about.
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Giggles_FunsworthBlight on DiscourseBay Area SprawlRegistered Userregular
So to lay this out, before the election I was willing to give Dems the benefit of the doubt in 2016. I was of the thought that policy doesn't really matter to voters, that the economic anxiety issue was overplayed and instead it was mostly racism, and that moderate democrats and Joe Biden were more electable and voting for them sucked but at least they'd provide some power, and that dems don't win because of low turn out, 3rd party votes, voter suppression and what not.
All of that turned out to be wrong with this election. Voter suppression doesn't matter when you have the highest turnout since 1900 and the major losses (like the senate for example) are statewide elections. 3rd party votes this election were tiny, so that doesn't matter either. One could say "oh well it matters in Wisconsin/Michigan/Pennsylvania/Arizona/Georgia/Nevada" but not really? It could be just as likely that in 2016 people didn't want to vote for a women and that small number switched to Dem because it was Joe Biden. Which is a problem, for sure, but doesn't address the fact that a significant swath of those states still voted for Republicans. Which comes to electability -- the Democratic electorate has no fucking clue what is or is not electable. After trying to run more to the right and more moderate, which actually lost them seats while progressives and leftists picked up seats, maybe they should try running more to the left to try something different. Racism is still a significant issue, for sure, but Dems aren't going to convince the racists by saying they're racist, they'll convince them to vote for Dems by focusing on policy and other things with good advertising. If the super racists/GOP is going to call Dems socialist and people believe that and don't vote for them because they're socialist, whatever, but maybe they should actually run on those kind of platforms to get people better policy which is popular as demonstrated by more people voting for $15 minimum wage in Florida than either candidate, and the state of Mississippi passing partial marijuana legalization. This is rambling, but the point is that Dem leadership needs to try something fucking different now, because running moderate/right isn't going to actually solve their problems, and neither will demographic change if you don't convince those people to vote for you on the basis of something other than "not that guy"
I think you're generally on point here but it's worth pointing out third party votes actually helped us here. With margins this close we really needed those Libertarian Party votes.
We all want it to be about policy, but Democratic (or Leftist) policies are already more popular.
The problem is that only about 52% of the voting population believes in journalism. The rest are basing all of their positions on what the Facebook memes told them, and assuming anything else is a lie. And they mostly live outside of big cities, meaning they control the senate.
If any of those Trump voters are persuadable, it's going to have to start with finding a way to tell them what's happening that they will believe. I don't know how to do that.
We all want it to be about policy, but Democratic (or Leftist) policies are already more popular.
The problem is that only about 52% of the voting population believes in journalism. The rest are basing all of their positions on what the Facebook memes told them, and assuming anything else is a lie. And they mostly live outside of big cities, meaning they control the senate.
If any of those Trump voters are persuadable, it's going to have to start with finding a way to tell them what's happening that they will believe. I don't know how to do that.
So to lay this out, before the election I was willing to give Dems the benefit of the doubt in 2016. I was of the thought that policy doesn't really matter to voters, that the economic anxiety issue was overplayed and instead it was mostly racism, and that moderate democrats and Joe Biden were more electable and voting for them sucked but at least they'd provide some power, and that dems don't win because of low turn out, 3rd party votes, voter suppression and what not.
All of that turned out to be wrong with this election. Voter suppression doesn't matter when you have the highest turnout since 1900 and the major losses (like the senate for example) are statewide elections. 3rd party votes this election were tiny, so that doesn't matter either. One could say "oh well it matters in Wisconsin/Michigan/Pennsylvania/Arizona/Georgia/Nevada" but not really? It could be just as likely that in 2016 people didn't want to vote for a women and that small number switched to Dem because it was Joe Biden. Which is a problem, for sure, but doesn't address the fact that a significant swath of those states still voted for Republicans. Which comes to electability -- the Democratic electorate has no fucking clue what is or is not electable. After trying to run more to the right and more moderate, which actually lost them seats while progressives and leftists picked up seats, maybe they should try running more to the left to try something different. Racism is still a significant issue, for sure, but Dems aren't going to convince the racists by saying they're racist, they'll convince them to vote for Dems by focusing on policy and other things with good advertising. If the super racists/GOP is going to call Dems socialist and people believe that and don't vote for them because they're socialist, whatever, but maybe they should actually run on those kind of platforms to get people better policy which is popular as demonstrated by more people voting for $15 minimum wage in Florida than either candidate, and the state of Mississippi passing partial marijuana legalization. This is rambling, but the point is that Dem leadership needs to try something fucking different now, because running moderate/right isn't going to actually solve their problems, and neither will demographic change if you don't convince those people to vote for you on the basis of something other than "not that guy"
I think you're generally on point here but it's worth pointing out third party votes actually helped us here. With margins this close we really needed those Libertarian Party votes.
Sure, my point was more that the excuse that 3rd party votes hurts democrats doesn't hold up here
That the minimum wage expansion did so well in Florida while Dems struggled is a lesson to be learned and jesus christ just fully embrace marijuana legalization already.
Joe Biden, who was for a $15 minimum wage, got ~48% of the vote.
The minimum wage increase to $15 got ~60% of the vote.
Like, there's a lesson to be learned here but it seems like it would be that your positions aren't actually what people are voting on.
Which given the way voters seem to have continually vote split on specific issues vs actual parties and candidates, does not seem unique to this election either.
If earlier exit polls hold true, Democrat's performance with minorities is extremely troubling
I’m not so naive as to think that Democrats couldn’t lose these votes honestly, but I do wonder about the extent of misinformation and soft suppression minority voters faced this years versus prior years. The Trump team was dedicated to it, in addition to Biden carrying baggage.
On the other hand, Georgia, man. Reducing the spread of white votes allows more unified minority votes to have additional power.
Also, I think it’s probably worth noting that the problem is largely among men.
i think the party kind of struggles to grasp at times what minority communities actually want.
I think a lot of that goes back to the Cuban support issue. Minority communities are often incredibly varied and diverse in their needs and expectations, down to a precinct level in a lot of cases. There has to be better micro-targeted research and outreach. It's just just enough to give people sweeping promises at this point, you have to let them know how you're going to specifically help them, and people like them.
People were sounding the alarm on hispanics and florida in particular for some time and for whatever reason the Biden Campaign mostly ignored them.
But we have to keep in mind that Obama won this state. Clinton did better in Miami than Biden did. Too often there's a tendency to write loses off as unwinnable in the first place and Florida was winnable.
Hispanics in Florida are going to require specific outreach. While Hispanic might be the proper term, we need to start specifically talking about Cuban-Americans and other groups that don't automatically fit in to the Mexican-American based model we've seemed to be in love with.
This actually applies to lots of ethnic groups, immigrant voters and first generation born citizens. Florida and voters identifying as Cubans are just going to be a big focus right now.
Im not really sure what it looks like. We cant really win the "Castro destroyed my family's business (slaves)" people but idk maybe its not the usual "youre minorities here's minority specific stuff" amd more kitchen table issue emphasis for lack of a better term.
I think you have to at least counter the socialism is responsible for your family fleeing Cuba. I don't know what it looks like either. Castro being a monster isn't something you're going to argue out of.
E: I've talked with some Indian immigrants and they've had some very gross conservative opinions that they seemed to pick up from others in whatever location they moved to. I don't know how to intervene in that cycle.
Indian caste politics are very much alive in the US, which helps drive that as well.
That the minimum wage expansion did so well in Florida while Dems struggled is a lesson to be learned and jesus christ just fully embrace marijuana legalization already.
Joe Biden, who was for a $15 minimum wage, got ~48% of the vote.
The minimum wage increase got ~60% of the vote.
Like, there's a lesson to be learned here but it seems like it would be that your positions aren't actually what people are voting on.
Which given the way voters seem to have continually vote split on specific issues vs actual parties and candidates, does not seem unique to this election either.
I've got it! No more elected officials, just more referenda!
That the minimum wage expansion did so well in Florida while Dems struggled is a lesson to be learned and jesus christ just fully embrace marijuana legalization already.
Joe Biden, who was for a $15 minimum wage, got ~48% of the vote.
The minimum wage increase got ~60% of the vote.
Like, there's a lesson to be learned here but it seems like it would be that your positions aren't actually what people are voting on.
Which given the way voters seem to have continually vote split on specific issues vs actual parties and candidates, does not seem unique to this election either.
The dems who lost their local elections in Florida did not really embrace the mininum wage expansion
This was a really wierd year, and it's going to be hard to analyze what really happened with the election. The Senate was always going to be a reach, back in February it was basically thought to be a lost cause but then covid happened and the polling looked a lot rosier. It also hasn't been said much, but I think the way so many votes cast in early voting absolutely caused a counter surge among Republicans. For weeks all I heard in the media was how early voting was smashing records, and how the Democrats were way ahead. There's really nothing as motivating to your base as everyone going "you're losing you're losing" constantly. That and the lockdowns and BLM protests were successfully played up in a negative light, and it all fired up their base pretty good. Idk, that's my takeaway mostly.
That the minimum wage expansion did so well in Florida while Dems struggled is a lesson to be learned and jesus christ just fully embrace marijuana legalization already.
Joe Biden, who was for a $15 minimum wage, got ~48% of the vote.
The minimum wage increase got ~60% of the vote.
Like, there's a lesson to be learned here but it seems like it would be that your positions aren't actually what people are voting on.
Which given the way voters seem to have continually vote split on specific issues vs actual parties and candidates, does not seem unique to this election either.
Democratic policies aren't in the forefront. You can say the media isn't pushing them out, but that's still on the Democrats for not pushing harder to discuss/push more on that and what they're running on in the general.
That the minimum wage expansion did so well in Florida while Dems struggled is a lesson to be learned and jesus christ just fully embrace marijuana legalization already.
Joe Biden, who was for a $15 minimum wage, got ~48% of the vote.
The minimum wage increase got ~60% of the vote.
Like, there's a lesson to be learned here but it seems like it would be that your positions aren't actually what people are voting on.
Which given the way voters seem to have continually vote split on specific issues vs actual parties and candidates, does not seem unique to this election either.
The dems who lost their local elections in Florida did not really embrace the mininum wage expansion
Joe Biden ran on the position though. Statewide. Which is the exact same level at which the actual proposition won.
When you look at a result that shows a divergence between the politician and the policy the politician is advocating for, the obvious answer is not "you need better policy". Because they already have the policy in question.
Posts
correct, need both houses
fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
All of that turned out to be wrong with this election. Voter suppression doesn't matter when you have the highest turnout since 1900 and the major losses (like the senate for example) are statewide elections. 3rd party votes this election were tiny, so that doesn't matter either. One could say "oh well it matters in Wisconsin/Michigan/Pennsylvania/Arizona/Georgia/Nevada" but not really? It could be just as likely that in 2016 people didn't want to vote for a women and that small number switched to Dem because it was Joe Biden. Which is a problem, for sure, but doesn't address the fact that a significant swath of those states still voted for Republicans. Which comes to electability -- the Democratic electorate has no fucking clue what is or is not electable. After trying to run more to the right and more moderate, which actually lost them seats while progressives and leftists picked up seats, maybe they should try running more to the left to try something different. Racism is still a significant issue, for sure, but Dems aren't going to convince the racists by saying they're racist, they'll convince them to vote for Dems by focusing on policy and other things with good advertising. If the super racists/GOP is going to call Dems socialist and people believe that and don't vote for them because they're socialist, whatever, but maybe they should actually run on those kind of platforms to get people better policy which is popular as demonstrated by more people voting for $15 minimum wage in Florida than either candidate, and the state of Mississippi passing partial marijuana legalization. This is rambling, but the point is that Dem leadership needs to try something fucking different now, because running moderate/right isn't going to actually solve their problems, and neither will demographic change if you don't convince those people to vote for you on the basis of something other than "not that guy"
We need to get Barack Obama, Stacy Abrams, and anyone else who can go down to fucking Georgia and win some fuckin Senate seats is what we need to do.
Jon Ossoff is less than 2 points down. Biden won the presidential race there. Loeghner is a weak candidate that profiteered off of covid.
There won’t be 2 million Trumpers coming out to vote in January. These races are winnable.
Things I think are true:
The party needs to get their shit together
Leftist policies should be more embraced on broadly popular topics like marijuana legalization etc.
The party needs to appreciate their young and black contributors more
Schumer needs to step down
Things I think aren't true:
Sanders would have done better
We're screwed
This is a lost presidency
The next 4 years are about fixing and rebuilding as a nation. Most of the damage was in the exec branch so it's eminently fixable in the current setup. 2022 has a great opportunity to take the Senate, but part of the picture is outreach and continual investment in state level infrastructure.
From my limited viewpoint, states don't coordinate that well and don't have a lot of foundation in purple and red states. GA proved you can move the needle if you work for it, so the focus needs to be on enabling and accelerating those efforts, as well as candidate identification and support.
From a national party perspective, I think they should stop ratfucking the progressives and focus efforts on driving wedges within the fractured Republicans rather than this continual "not a true leftist" fight that's ever present.
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Not every state is going to be full of AOCs.
Trump had a lot of fucking problems, but absolutely playing Twitter like a fiddle for 4 years for what amounts to free campaigning/propaganda is not one of them.
My point is don't wait for perfect - start with decent-good and appreciate when things turn out great. The more of a feeder system is in place and the more people have access to help and audience, the more we'll find.
There are definitely some lessons that can immediately be taken from this; connecting Democrats better with broadly popular policy like drug legalization and minimum wage increases is obvious, as is being better at utilizing social media. But I think "we completely failed to capture the minority vote" is something that we should let the chips fall a little bit more before we declare it to be true.
It's why we're seeing people like David Hog or Greta Thunberg
Trumpism isn't going away. Trumpism lost this time because it was incompetent. 2022 and 2024 are very scary thoughts right now, and if Dems don't get their shit together to effectively campaign they're going to lose again, and badly.
What does "dont wait for perfect" look like in practical terms to you?
AOC said something similar in her Vanity Fair interview
Deadeyed desire for power.
I’m definitely holding off on specifics until I get more data. But speaking of that, it’s more than a little disappointing that our Democratic officials who got their man, and got the campaign they desired, are already blaming “socialism” and “defund the police” for their own disappointment. You don’t get to be in charge, do the thing you said was the way to go, and then blame me for it. I don’t have the right words for it, but it’s not leaving me in something that’s close to a good mood.
Come on man at least its funny when the literal ex CIA agent blames socialism for her tight race.
Voting for Joe Biden because nobody else was close to good enough to get elected
Yeah, that's what I mean. If you want deadeyed power, do not go into politics. Only sociopaths seek power in office. It is a road filled with scrutiny and obligation and actual work.
I really do think everyone in politics is either a true believer or a little bit off, especially the 3+ termers.
I am skeptical of any prediction of who runs in 2024. I don't think we can count on it being a Trumplike figure.
Yes this sounds insane to me. What more could have been done to blunt those effects?!?
I'm still mad as hell they threw away a chance at Texas though. It was close. Closer than I can ever remember it being. And I think Biden would have closed there too if he hadn't alienated Latinx activists early on and neglected to do Spanish language outreach on the border. It's just foolhardy and arrogant to treat people like you're entitled to their vote, it was an unforced error that didn't need to happen. I'm mostly bummed because I think once that threshold was broken for a lot of people they would have been like my dad and been a hell of a lot more likely to vote for Democrats going forward. I hope it hasn't done damage to those coalitions that lasts past this election.
I think people are discounting a sneak eating its tail here
You're saying "Biden is most electable so primary voters voted for him" when it could also be "primary voters believed Biden to be most electable so they voted for him"
And I'm willing to believe it was a lot more of the second, not as much of the first, and that maybe no one knows what is actually electable given Biden did about as same as Clinton
I mean, that was Cantor's district, so she isn't exactly going to be progressive.
This is exactly what "don't let perfect be the enemy of good" is talking about.
I think you're generally on point here but it's worth pointing out third party votes actually helped us here. With margins this close we really needed those Libertarian Party votes.
The problem is that only about 52% of the voting population believes in journalism. The rest are basing all of their positions on what the Facebook memes told them, and assuming anything else is a lie. And they mostly live outside of big cities, meaning they control the senate.
If any of those Trump voters are persuadable, it's going to have to start with finding a way to tell them what's happening that they will believe. I don't know how to do that.
more serious digital outreach is a start
Sure, my point was more that the excuse that 3rd party votes hurts democrats doesn't hold up here
Joe Biden, who was for a $15 minimum wage, got ~48% of the vote.
The minimum wage increase to $15 got ~60% of the vote.
Like, there's a lesson to be learned here but it seems like it would be that your positions aren't actually what people are voting on.
Which given the way voters seem to have continually vote split on specific issues vs actual parties and candidates, does not seem unique to this election either.
Indian caste politics are very much alive in the US, which helps drive that as well.
I've got it! No more elected officials, just more referenda!
Or talk about GOP attacks on the preexisting conditions protection and the GOP responds with nuh-uh and the media goes "yup, they said that."
That had to have been an auto correct error, no? I've never read or heard of that as a nickname for the speaker.
If it's not a technology mistake then yeah, gross.
The dems who lost their local elections in Florida did not really embrace the mininum wage expansion
And it was not like Dems did not want to talk about it
Democratic policies aren't in the forefront. You can say the media isn't pushing them out, but that's still on the Democrats for not pushing harder to discuss/push more on that and what they're running on in the general.
Joe Biden ran on the position though. Statewide. Which is the exact same level at which the actual proposition won.
When you look at a result that shows a divergence between the politician and the policy the politician is advocating for, the obvious answer is not "you need better policy". Because they already have the policy in question.