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Trump's Lame Duck Extravaganza

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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    When it finally sinks in that he cant pardon himself for state crimes, he’ll flee in the dead of night to a non-extradition country. It will take WH staff a few days to figure out he’s not coming back. Pence will be sworn in, and then just to be petty he’ll appoint a black conservative woman like Alveda King as VP for the last month in order to try and deny Kamala her historic first.

    Any new VP needs confirned by both houses of congress. Odds are Pence would be alone for his tenure.

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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Aegis wrote: »
    So does Stephen Miller go through with all those plans he had after the election? Like, presumably anything he can do in 2 months can just be undone by the incoming Administration.

    Not if he deports people and they get murdered in their country of origin, which has happened multiple times already.

    The thing is that Miller can't do that alone, and now that there's a clock running over his head, people aren't going to stick their necks out for him.

    Shit completely slipped my mind that fuck all gets past in the lame duck without it being a veto override. I mean it's fucking Trump, he'll burn the nation to the ground for a quick buck when he was running for re-election (reminder fucker starting running for this years race before he was even sworn in). So yeah, now that there is nothing in it for him, he'll do fuck all.

    That puts McConnell is a shitty spot. If he doesn't override, then it makes far easier to argue that McConnell shouldn't get to be majority leader in the next Congress. if he overrides, the Trumpers are going to be pissed and then question becomes do they boycott or do they vote democratic out of spite.

  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    Aegis wrote: »
    So does Stephen Miller go through with all those plans he had after the election? Like, presumably anything he can do in 2 months can just be undone by the incoming Administration.

    Not if he deports people and they get murdered in their country of origin, which has happened multiple times already.

    The thing is that Miller can't do that alone, and now that there's a clock running over his head, people aren't going to stick their necks out for him.

    Shit completely slipped my mind that fuck all gets past in the lame duck without it being a veto override. I mean it's fucking Trump, he'll burn the nation to the ground for a quick buck when he was running for re-election (reminder fucker starting running for this years race before he was even sworn in). So yeah, now that there is nothing in it for him, he'll do fuck all.

    That puts McConnell is a shitty spot. If he doesn't override, then it makes far easier to argue that McConnell shouldn't get to be majority leader in the next Congress. if he overrides, the Trumpers are going to be pissed and then question becomes do they boycott or do they vote democratic out of spite.

    Feels like people barely noticed the few times congress did overwrite him. If it was a divisive issue for conservatives it wouldn't be one that McConnell would have a veto proof majority for anyway.

    Like Trumpers don't mind Russia but I doubt they were angry at congress the few times they stood against it.

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  • GyralGyral Registered User regular
    The Trumpers are already screaming about purity tests from other Republicans over not wanting to throw the election for Trump. I doubt we see anything approaching logical legislation from Congress at all right now.

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  • LowHitPointsLowHitPoints Sword of the Afternoon MichiganRegistered User regular
    I posted this in the Election thread:
    Instead of barricading himself in the White House, Trump will spend every day between now and JAN 20 at one of his resorts to soak up as many Government dollars as he can through SS detail accommodations. According to NYT, he will need all the money he can get his hands on.

    He will spend all his time trying to cover his own ass, first formost and always.

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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    Aegis wrote: »
    So does Stephen Miller go through with all those plans he had after the election? Like, presumably anything he can do in 2 months can just be undone by the incoming Administration.

    Not if he deports people and they get murdered in their country of origin, which has happened multiple times already.

    The thing is that Miller can't do that alone, and now that there's a clock running over his head, people aren't going to stick their necks out for him.

    Shit completely slipped my mind that fuck all gets past in the lame duck without it being a veto override. I mean it's fucking Trump, he'll burn the nation to the ground for a quick buck when he was running for re-election (reminder fucker starting running for this years race before he was even sworn in). So yeah, now that there is nothing in it for him, he'll do fuck all.

    That puts McConnell is a shitty spot. If he doesn't override, then it makes far easier to argue that McConnell shouldn't get to be majority leader in the next Congress. if he overrides, the Trumpers are going to be pissed and then question becomes do they boycott or do they vote democratic out of spite.

    Basically, McConnell is over a barrel because of Georgia. If he is too obstructionist, he could very well lose those seats - and his leadership (both in the sense of being the Senate Majority Leader and possibly being the head of the Senate GOP.) This is why he's been floating a stimulus package to be released in December.

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  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    Aegis wrote: »
    So does Stephen Miller go through with all those plans he had after the election? Like, presumably anything he can do in 2 months can just be undone by the incoming Administration.

    Not if he deports people and they get murdered in their country of origin, which has happened multiple times already.

    The thing is that Miller can't do that alone, and now that there's a clock running over his head, people aren't going to stick their necks out for him.

    Shit completely slipped my mind that fuck all gets past in the lame duck without it being a veto override. I mean it's fucking Trump, he'll burn the nation to the ground for a quick buck when he was running for re-election (reminder fucker starting running for this years race before he was even sworn in). So yeah, now that there is nothing in it for him, he'll do fuck all.

    That puts McConnell is a shitty spot. If he doesn't override, then it makes far easier to argue that McConnell shouldn't get to be majority leader in the next Congress. if he overrides, the Trumpers are going to be pissed and then question becomes do they boycott or do they vote democratic out of spite.

    Basically, McConnell is over a barrel because of Georgia. If he is too obstructionist, he could very well lose those seats - and his leadership (both in the sense of being the Senate Majority Leader and possibly being the head of the Senate GOP.) This is why he's been floating a stimulus package to be released in December.

    I think this is either/or at best. GoP might complain that McConnell got nothing done with his majority but that's exactly what makes him the perfect minority leader.

    EddySleep
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    Aegis wrote: »
    So does Stephen Miller go through with all those plans he had after the election? Like, presumably anything he can do in 2 months can just be undone by the incoming Administration.

    Not if he deports people and they get murdered in their country of origin, which has happened multiple times already.

    The thing is that Miller can't do that alone, and now that there's a clock running over his head, people aren't going to stick their necks out for him.

    Shit completely slipped my mind that fuck all gets past in the lame duck without it being a veto override. I mean it's fucking Trump, he'll burn the nation to the ground for a quick buck when he was running for re-election (reminder fucker starting running for this years race before he was even sworn in). So yeah, now that there is nothing in it for him, he'll do fuck all.

    That puts McConnell is a shitty spot. If he doesn't override, then it makes far easier to argue that McConnell shouldn't get to be majority leader in the next Congress. if he overrides, the Trumpers are going to be pissed and then question becomes do they boycott or do they vote democratic out of spite.

    Basically, McConnell is over a barrel because of Georgia. If he is too obstructionist, he could very well lose those seats - and his leadership (both in the sense of being the Senate Majority Leader and possibly being the head of the Senate GOP.) This is why he's been floating a stimulus package to be released in December.

    I think this is either/or at best. GoP might complain that McConnell got nothing done with his majority but that's exactly what makes him the perfect minority leader.

    The thing is, if he's the Minority Leader, he's going to be stripped of the tool he's used to control the agenda - the filibuster. He would have only soft power to work with - and as we've seen, he has no talent for that.

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  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    Aegis wrote: »
    So does Stephen Miller go through with all those plans he had after the election? Like, presumably anything he can do in 2 months can just be undone by the incoming Administration.

    Not if he deports people and they get murdered in their country of origin, which has happened multiple times already.

    The thing is that Miller can't do that alone, and now that there's a clock running over his head, people aren't going to stick their necks out for him.

    Shit completely slipped my mind that fuck all gets past in the lame duck without it being a veto override. I mean it's fucking Trump, he'll burn the nation to the ground for a quick buck when he was running for re-election (reminder fucker starting running for this years race before he was even sworn in). So yeah, now that there is nothing in it for him, he'll do fuck all.

    That puts McConnell is a shitty spot. If he doesn't override, then it makes far easier to argue that McConnell shouldn't get to be majority leader in the next Congress. if he overrides, the Trumpers are going to be pissed and then question becomes do they boycott or do they vote democratic out of spite.

    Basically, McConnell is over a barrel because of Georgia. If he is too obstructionist, he could very well lose those seats - and his leadership (both in the sense of being the Senate Majority Leader and possibly being the head of the Senate GOP.) This is why he's been floating a stimulus package to be released in December.

    I think this is either/or at best. GoP might complain that McConnell got nothing done with his majority but that's exactly what makes him the perfect minority leader.

    The thing is, if he's the Minority Leader, he's going to be stripped of the tool he's used to control the agenda - the filibuster. He would have only soft power to work with - and as we've seen, he has no talent for that.

    Good point eventually but I'm not sure we get there with just 50 + 1. Seems like 2+ current senators already came out against this move.

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    Aegis wrote: »
    So does Stephen Miller go through with all those plans he had after the election? Like, presumably anything he can do in 2 months can just be undone by the incoming Administration.

    Not if he deports people and they get murdered in their country of origin, which has happened multiple times already.

    The thing is that Miller can't do that alone, and now that there's a clock running over his head, people aren't going to stick their necks out for him.

    Shit completely slipped my mind that fuck all gets past in the lame duck without it being a veto override. I mean it's fucking Trump, he'll burn the nation to the ground for a quick buck when he was running for re-election (reminder fucker starting running for this years race before he was even sworn in). So yeah, now that there is nothing in it for him, he'll do fuck all.

    That puts McConnell is a shitty spot. If he doesn't override, then it makes far easier to argue that McConnell shouldn't get to be majority leader in the next Congress. if he overrides, the Trumpers are going to be pissed and then question becomes do they boycott or do they vote democratic out of spite.

    Basically, McConnell is over a barrel because of Georgia. If he is too obstructionist, he could very well lose those seats - and his leadership (both in the sense of being the Senate Majority Leader and possibly being the head of the Senate GOP.) This is why he's been floating a stimulus package to be released in December.

    I think this is either/or at best. GoP might complain that McConnell got nothing done with his majority but that's exactly what makes him the perfect minority leader.

    The thing is, if he's the Minority Leader, he's going to be stripped of the tool he's used to control the agenda - the filibuster. He would have only soft power to work with - and as we've seen, he has no talent for that.

    It's not the filibuster that made him powerful.

    It's the Senatorial equivalent of a pocket veto. His ability to choose what does, and more importantly, what doesn't come to the floor.

    Merrick Garland isn't on the SCOTUS because he was filibustered, or voted down. He's not there because McConnell didn't bring it to a vote, because he thought he risked it passing, or losing seats if he did keep them in line.

    The latter was probably an overestimation, because as we saw with Maine, there's no consequence for being a shitty vote for shittier Justices.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    Aegis wrote: »
    So does Stephen Miller go through with all those plans he had after the election? Like, presumably anything he can do in 2 months can just be undone by the incoming Administration.

    Not if he deports people and they get murdered in their country of origin, which has happened multiple times already.

    The thing is that Miller can't do that alone, and now that there's a clock running over his head, people aren't going to stick their necks out for him.

    Shit completely slipped my mind that fuck all gets past in the lame duck without it being a veto override. I mean it's fucking Trump, he'll burn the nation to the ground for a quick buck when he was running for re-election (reminder fucker starting running for this years race before he was even sworn in). So yeah, now that there is nothing in it for him, he'll do fuck all.

    That puts McConnell is a shitty spot. If he doesn't override, then it makes far easier to argue that McConnell shouldn't get to be majority leader in the next Congress. if he overrides, the Trumpers are going to be pissed and then question becomes do they boycott or do they vote democratic out of spite.

    Basically, McConnell is over a barrel because of Georgia. If he is too obstructionist, he could very well lose those seats - and his leadership (both in the sense of being the Senate Majority Leader and possibly being the head of the Senate GOP.) This is why he's been floating a stimulus package to be released in December.

    I think this is either/or at best. GoP might complain that McConnell got nothing done with his majority but that's exactly what makes him the perfect minority leader.

    The thing is, if he's the Minority Leader, he's going to be stripped of the tool he's used to control the agenda - the filibuster. He would have only soft power to work with - and as we've seen, he has no talent for that.

    It's not the filibuster that made him powerful.

    It's the Senatorial equivalent of a pocket veto. His ability to choose what does, and more importantly, what doesn't come to the floor.

    Merrick Garland isn't on the SCOTUS because he was filibustered, or voted down. He's not there because McConnell didn't bring it to a vote, because he thought he risked it passing, or losing seats if he did keep them in line.

    The latter was probably an overestimation, because as we saw with Maine, there's no consequence for being a shitty vote for shittier Justices.

    That's true when he has the majority. In 2009-2015, though, it worked like Hedge says for him. (partially because no one realized just how hardcore obstruction they were going to go, and the Dems lost the house in 2010 so there wasn't much point killing the FB)

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    As for the Trump/McConnell battle in the lame duck, it's going to depend greatly on just which is a bigger overriding drive for Trump. His capacity for spite, or his inherent laziness and incompetence.

    While his spite is incredibly long lasting (his petty dickishness to Graydon Carter over "short fingered vulgarian" has been going on for many years), I can see that just manifesting in a few rage tweets and maybe a call-in to FOX.

    But actually going out of his way to actively fuck over McConnell? Yeah, I just can't see that happening. Also, it might mean an actual confrontation with the man, and I'm pretty sure that's never going to happen.

    Trump's proven time and time again, when it comes to telling people off, to their face, he's a fucking coward. The only exception are people who he knows are fully subservient to him (ie, direct employees and his children), and Mitch is not that.

    MorganV on
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  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    This may be silly, obvious or unnecessary, but I really hope Trump doesn’t decide to do anything drastic or destructive in his final weeks.

    I don’t know what he actually can do, but it remains that his political career is essentially over, he’s looking at enduring being replaced by Obama’s Vice President in like two months, and frankly the only real fortitude Donald Trump has ever had comes from his ability to channel spite and hold a grudge.

  • AtomikaAtomika She hungers. Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    I was reading a Politico article today that was kinda fascinating if true, outlining how basically since COVID hit in January and the election season started, all of Trump’s inner circle (Meadows, Kushner, Ivanka) were trying to get him to do reasonable, normal things and take shit seriously, and Trump refused at every turn because he thought being restrained and helpful kept him out of the spotlight. Once people started putting Dr Fauci and Gov. Cuomo on TV daily, Trump couldn’t stand it.


    I’m not sure there are precise words to describe what kind of crazy he is.

    Atomika on
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  • GyralGyral Registered User regular
    Yeah, there are. Narcissistic Sociopath. And I wouldn't be surprised if he's got a touch of dementia or even encephalopathy caused by his shitty diet. Unreported, of course.

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  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »

    He's going to take anything not bolted down in the White House because he's a petty thief.

    I'm pretty confident he's going to steal at least one painting, but thankfully he is utterly classless and probably will steal a Lincoln Portrait poster from the gift shop instead of the priceless real thing

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Eddy wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »

    He's going to take anything not bolted down in the White House because he's a petty thief.

    I'm pretty confident he's going to steal at least one painting, but thankfully he is utterly classless and probably will steal a Lincoln Portrait poster from the gift shop instead of the priceless real thing

    This is sarcasm because this has already happened huh

  • AtomikaAtomika She hungers. Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Gyral wrote: »
    Yeah, there are. Narcissistic Sociopath. And I wouldn't be surprised if he's got a touch of dementia or even encephalopathy caused by his shitty diet. Unreported, of course.

    I grew up having a malignant narcissist for a father. He’s a lot like Trump (although my father was actually a successful businessman), but even as bad as he can be I can’t imagine him getting repeated and regular advice from people he trusts and shitting all over it.

    The fact that Trump, faced with the pandemic, couldn’t see that doing the smart thing would make him more popular and possibly win him the election, and instead got piss-baby mad that other people were allowed to talk for a minute, is . . . man, I dunno.

    A narcissist would choose the thing that makes them look good and betters their station. Driving your own political career (and the country) off a cliff because you are supposed to be the only big boy who can talk on the TV?

    Let me put it this way: if someone came into my ER and wouldn’t let the doctor speak and constantly disagreed and quarreled, talking nonsense and saying they’re the smartest and best, we’d probably consider having the county authorize a temporary psychiatric detainment.


    Trump’s level of narcissism is so primal and elementary he can’t even allow things that will help him and make him look good if it means losing even a second of others’ attention.

    Atomika on
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  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    I really hopes he tries to steal something insane like the Resolute Desk or the bust of George Washington.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
    Eddy
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Or shit, he should declassify all the alien stuff.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
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  • AtomikaAtomika She hungers. Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    I really hopes he tries to steal something insane like the Resolute Desk or the bust of George Washington.

    Nicolas Cage already stole the Resolute Desk

    I saw the whole thing

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  • AtomikaAtomika She hungers. Registered User regular
    CNN’s postmortem has some really sad info about how the Trump campaign was basically broke since October and even then Stepien and Kushner spent most of their TV ad buys on Washington DC to keep Trump’s mood up

    They were literally spending their last precious dollars on keeping the baby quiet. An audience of one.



    Just a little baby tinpot. It’s so pathetic.

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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    CNN’s postmortem has some really sad info about how the Trump campaign was basically broke since October and even then Stepien and Kushner spent most of their TV ad buys on Washington DC to keep Trump’s mood up

    They were literally spending their last precious dollars on keeping the baby quiet. An audience of one.



    Just a little baby tinpot. It’s so pathetic.

    And yet, even with that hand tied behind their back, they came so close to winning.

    It really worries me.

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  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    CNN’s postmortem has some really sad info about how the Trump campaign was basically broke since October and even then Stepien and Kushner spent most of their TV ad buys on Washington DC to keep Trump’s mood up

    They were literally spending their last precious dollars on keeping the baby quiet. An audience of one.



    Just a little baby tinpot. It’s so pathetic.

    And yet, even with that hand tied behind their back, they came so close to winning.

    It really worries me.

    It should, because the US is a scary place to live and our electoral system is awful. Work to elect Warnock and Ossoff so we can head off the fascists at the pass.

    Take a moment to donate what you can to Critical Resistance and Black Lives Matter.
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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Eddy wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »

    He's going to take anything not bolted down in the White House because he's a petty thief.

    I'm pretty confident he's going to steal at least one painting, but thankfully he is utterly classless and probably will steal a Lincoln Portrait poster from the gift shop instead of the priceless real thing

    He'll steal his OWN portrait. Because to him it is the only beautiful one in the place.

    Somebody will print an unflattering picture off the internet and stick it in a dollar store frame as a joke, but the temporary replacement which will become less and less temporary as time goes on and the joke will stop being funny but who's going to commission a duplicate?

    Hevach on
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  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    I can dip my butt in bronzer and sit on a canvas. There you go, there's your duplicate.

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  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    I think this period is when we get to see whether Trump's skills and instinct to grift overcome his own incompetence, narcissism, and mental illness.

    Back in 2016 when Trump first started his 2020 re-election campaign (that's right, the first campaign spend of the 2020 campaign was November 24, 2016, just over two weeks after the 2016 election), he very quickly moved to position people loyal to him in charge of the Republican Party's finances and fundraising apparatus. When Trump officially filed his reelection paperwork in January 2017, Trump Victory very quickly moved to bring as much party fundraising as possible under the Trump Victory umbrella. Coupled with the fact the party's base remains more loyal to Trump and his proxies than the party himself, the thing that a consummate grifter would do is turn this into the new family grift, setting themselves up as the gatekeepers of campaign funds for the whole party and retaining the ability to require that candidates kiss their ring in order to receive their endorsement, or risk being denounced. This would be much closer to what I (and I suspect many of you) believe to be Trump's real goals, which is simply to grift and receive praise and attention from his supporters. It would also provide some additional protection from prosecution since any investigation can be spun as being a politically motivated attack on the finances of the opposing party rather than a good faith inquest into ongoing fraud. The Georgia run-offs give Trump a great opportunity to test this. Unshackled from even having pretending to be concerned about the party's legislative agenda, Trump is well-positioned to strong-arm the party and its backers in order to cover his debts and continue to allow his family to grift. He can test his power to see if the party will play ball and then either withhold support or worse yet (for the party) denounce their candidates, with very little downside, because he ultimately doesn't care about the party other than as a source of cash and adulation.

    On the other hand, Trump has suffered a severe narcissistic injury and this will likely result in an intense rage, more so than anything we have seen, particularly as the hits keep coming and he is unable to overturn the results announced yesterday. If the rest of the remaining Republican party apparatus is smart enough to realize that if they don't excise the Trump family tumor right away, this could also lead to more frustration for Trump and rage that is destructive both to the party (in the short-term) and himself and his family (in the long term). This would be characterized by extreme, dictatorial gestures (i.e. demanding that President-elect Biden be arrested for some poorly articulated fraud, ordering some sort of paramilitary crackdown, agitating his supporters to get violent, etc) or more subtle attacks on perceived traitors within the party and his associated surrogates (Mitt Romney, Fox News, etc). The latter could also coincidentally result in him trying to throw the Georgia elections, and such a result might be indistinguishable from the grifting scenario above to outside observers.



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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    I think this period is when we get to see whether Trump's skills and instinct to grift overcome his own incompetence, narcissism, and mental illness.

    Back in 2016 when Trump first started his 2020 re-election campaign (that's right, the first campaign spend of the 2020 campaign was November 24, 2016, just over two weeks after the 2016 election), he very quickly moved to position people loyal to him in charge of the Republican Party's finances and fundraising apparatus. When Trump officially filed his reelection paperwork in January 2017, Trump Victory very quickly moved to bring as much party fundraising as possible under the Trump Victory umbrella. Coupled with the fact the party's base remains more loyal to Trump and his proxies than the party himself, the thing that a consummate grifter would do is turn this into the new family grift, setting themselves up as the gatekeepers of campaign funds for the whole party and retaining the ability to require that candidates kiss their ring in order to receive their endorsement, or risk being denounced. This would be much closer to what I (and I suspect many of you) believe to be Trump's real goals, which is simply to grift and receive praise and attention from his supporters. It would also provide some additional protection from prosecution since any investigation can be spun as being a politically motivated attack on the finances of the opposing party rather than a good faith inquest into ongoing fraud. The Georgia run-offs give Trump a great opportunity to test this. Unshackled from even having pretending to be concerned about the party's legislative agenda, Trump is well-positioned to strong-arm the party and its backers in order to cover his debts and continue to allow his family to grift. He can test his power to see if the party will play ball and then either withhold support or worse yet (for the party) denounce their candidates, with very little downside, because he ultimately doesn't care about the party other than as a source of cash and adulation.

    On the other hand, Trump has suffered a severe narcissistic injury and this will likely result in an intense rage, more so than anything we have seen, particularly as the hits keep coming and he is unable to overturn the results announced yesterday. If the rest of the remaining Republican party apparatus is smart enough to realize that if they don't excise the Trump family tumor right away, this could also lead to more frustration for Trump and rage that is destructive both to the party (in the short-term) and himself and his family (in the long term). This would be characterized by extreme, dictatorial gestures (i.e. demanding that President-elect Biden be arrested for some poorly articulated fraud, ordering some sort of paramilitary crackdown, agitating his supporters to get violent, etc) or more subtle attacks on perceived traitors within the party and his associated surrogates (Mitt Romney, Fox News, etc). The latter could also coincidentally result in him trying to throw the Georgia elections, and such a result might be indistinguishable from the grifting scenario above to outside observers.

    Honestly I think which of these outcomes happen depend on who gets to him first to pitch the idea.

    MorganVEdith_Bagot-DixGiantGeek2020Eddy
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    Gyral wrote: »
    Yeah, there are. Narcissistic Sociopath. And I wouldn't be surprised if he's got a touch of dementia or even encephalopathy caused by his shitty diet. Unreported, of course.

    I grew up having a malignant narcissist for a father. He’s a lot like Trump (although my father was actually a successful businessman), but even as bad as he can be I can’t imagine him getting repeated and regular advice from people he trusts and shitting all over it.

    The fact that Trump, faced with the pandemic, couldn’t see that doing the smart thing would make him more popular and possibly win him the election, and instead got piss-baby mad that other people were allowed to talk for a minute, is . . . man, I dunno.

    A narcissist would choose the thing that makes them look good and betters their station. Driving your own political career (and the country) off a cliff because you are supposed to be the only big boy who can talk on the TV?

    Let me put it this way: if someone came into my ER and wouldn’t let the doctor speak and constantly disagreed and quarreled, talking nonsense and saying they’re the smartest and best, we’d probably consider having the county authorize a temporary psychiatric detainment.


    Trump’s level of narcissism is so primal and elementary he can’t even allow things that will help him and make him look good if it means losing even a second of others’ attention.

    The difference, I think, is that your father had to develop skills in order to actually operate and succeed in the world. He may have been self-obsessed, but he existed in a reality where a) he didn't have all the power and b) he could have failed.

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  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    I think this period is when we get to see whether Trump's skills and instinct to grift overcome his own incompetence, narcissism, and mental illness.

    Back in 2016 when Trump first started his 2020 re-election campaign (that's right, the first campaign spend of the 2020 campaign was November 24, 2016, just over two weeks after the 2016 election), he very quickly moved to position people loyal to him in charge of the Republican Party's finances and fundraising apparatus. When Trump officially filed his reelection paperwork in January 2017, Trump Victory very quickly moved to bring as much party fundraising as possible under the Trump Victory umbrella. Coupled with the fact the party's base remains more loyal to Trump and his proxies than the party himself, the thing that a consummate grifter would do is turn this into the new family grift, setting themselves up as the gatekeepers of campaign funds for the whole party and retaining the ability to require that candidates kiss their ring in order to receive their endorsement, or risk being denounced. This would be much closer to what I (and I suspect many of you) believe to be Trump's real goals, which is simply to grift and receive praise and attention from his supporters. It would also provide some additional protection from prosecution since any investigation can be spun as being a politically motivated attack on the finances of the opposing party rather than a good faith inquest into ongoing fraud. The Georgia run-offs give Trump a great opportunity to test this. Unshackled from even having pretending to be concerned about the party's legislative agenda, Trump is well-positioned to strong-arm the party and its backers in order to cover his debts and continue to allow his family to grift. He can test his power to see if the party will play ball and then either withhold support or worse yet (for the party) denounce their candidates, with very little downside, because he ultimately doesn't care about the party other than as a source of cash and adulation.

    On the other hand, Trump has suffered a severe narcissistic injury and this will likely result in an intense rage, more so than anything we have seen, particularly as the hits keep coming and he is unable to overturn the results announced yesterday. If the rest of the remaining Republican party apparatus is smart enough to realize that if they don't excise the Trump family tumor right away, this could also lead to more frustration for Trump and rage that is destructive both to the party (in the short-term) and himself and his family (in the long term). This would be characterized by extreme, dictatorial gestures (i.e. demanding that President-elect Biden be arrested for some poorly articulated fraud, ordering some sort of paramilitary crackdown, agitating his supporters to get violent, etc) or more subtle attacks on perceived traitors within the party and his associated surrogates (Mitt Romney, Fox News, etc). The latter could also coincidentally result in him trying to throw the Georgia elections, and such a result might be indistinguishable from the grifting scenario above to outside observers.

    Honestly I think which of these outcomes happen depend on who gets to him first to pitch the idea.

    You're probably right and the unfortunate thing is that the latter is more likely. The grifting scenario is an obvious win for the family so you'd expect Melania, his sons, Ivanka, and Jared to be lined up there. Ivanka, in particular, probably knows him well enough that she might be able to calm him down and coach him on the path of grifting, but he has suffered a pretty epic humiliation.

    Unfortunately, you have people who are intelligent and would be all-in on the narcissistic rage angle because it either accelerates America toward fascism and civil war (nightmare fuel - he starts ordering or encouraging political murders and issuing pardons for them) or severe collapse - the two of which go hand in hand. On this side, you'd have a bunch of the alt-right lunatics, Stephen Miller, Bannon (firmly in this camp but probably not someone with Trump's ear), maybe Giuliani, maybe Roger Stone; basically, anyone who is either into the conspiracy rabbit-hole or has been seriously compromised by the Russians, because this is absolutely the outcome they want. To add fuel to the fire, while Ivanka and Jared are almost certainly firmly on team grift, a cocaine-fueled moron like Don Jr. could easily end up picking this side as well, even though it would be deeply stupid for him to do so. Don Jr. aside, these folks are smarter and harder working than the Trump brood

    There's a third party in all of this, which is the tattered remains of the Republican establishment. These guys weren't in good shape in 2016, or they wouldn't be in this mess, and are certainly not better off now. People who are intelligent, like Romney and McConnell, probably realize there is no upside for them with EITHER above outcome. Even if Trump successfully pulled off a fascist coup at the 11th hour, the Republican establishment would just get the distinction of being the last against the wall rather than the first. If the grifters won out, then the Republican now has a Trump family tumor hanging off its ass for a generation at least. However, they're really in a bind. The base is far more loyal to Trump than to them, Trump still controls a lot of the money, and there are no party apparatchiks close enough to him to talk him out of doing something insane.

    Edith_Bagot-Dix on


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  • OricalmOricalm MDRegistered User regular
    Basically, McConnell is over a barrel because of Georgia. If he is too obstructionist, he could very well lose those seats - and his leadership (both in the sense of being the Senate Majority Leader and possibly being the head of the Senate GOP.) This is why he's been floating a stimulus package to be released in December.

    Is that before or after the CR that expires December 11th is extended? I have been holding off paying off some debt just because I have a strong suspicion I am gonna be furloughed from the 11th till Biden swears in. The GA run-offs make that a little less likely, but Trump being spiteful and vetoing everything sounds about right. And unless it's a clean CR, the senate Dems have no reason to pitch in for a veto-override.

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  • CantideCantide Registered User regular
    So the upside of all this whining that the Democrats stole the election is that it’s a known phenomenon that that line of thinking depresses turnout. With any luck, a significant number of right wing Georgians are going to sit out the runoffs in January because their commander orange has spent the last two months telling them their vote won’t matter.

    durandal4532
  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    I just tried to join a Warnock phone bank training thing and it was full up so like... here's hoping! People are already working hard.

    Take a moment to donate what you can to Critical Resistance and Black Lives Matter.
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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Oricalm wrote: »
    Basically, McConnell is over a barrel because of Georgia. If he is too obstructionist, he could very well lose those seats - and his leadership (both in the sense of being the Senate Majority Leader and possibly being the head of the Senate GOP.) This is why he's been floating a stimulus package to be released in December.

    Is that before or after the CR that expires December 11th is extended? I have been holding off paying off some debt just because I have a strong suspicion I am gonna be furloughed from the 11th till Biden swears in. The GA run-offs make that a little less likely, but Trump being spiteful and vetoing everything sounds about right. And unless it's a clean CR, the senate Dems have no reason to pitch in for a veto-override.

    Yup. That's the thing. There's TWO important things that need to happen, under threat of a gamechange election.

    Funding the federal government, AND COVID relief that probably needs to include state and individual funding.

    Really hope the Democrats don't do both on the one bill. Allowing McConnell to trade support for one as a means to not do so much on the other. Make him have to give in both, separately.

    "Well, we'll give ground on funding the fed, if you give us our corporate immunity for Covid."

    Fuck that. Make opposition to either, toxic.

    Also, make sure as fuck that the federal gunding isn't six fucking weeks. Do NOT want this coming up again January 28th. At least to July, if not December.

    The Republicans are at their weakest position fighting this, that we've ever had. They better not squander it for a short term gain that they can hobble once the special elections are done, and Biden is the one in the big chair.

  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    I could actually see Trump shutting the government down again out of spite.

    There's probably enough R senators who also don't want to fund the government that they don't manage to overwrite the veto.

    2020 is going to 2020 us to the last.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    I could actually see Trump shutting the government down again out of spite.

    There's probably enough R senators who also don't want to fund the government that they don't manage to overwrite the veto.

    2020 is going to 2020 us to the last.

    Not saying that won't happen but that's going to do horrible things to the GOP in the Senate run offs.

    GiantGeek2020
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    I could actually see Trump shutting the government down again out of spite.

    There's probably enough R senators who also don't want to fund the government that they don't manage to overwrite the veto.

    2020 is going to 2020 us to the last.

    Not saying that won't happen but that's going to do horrible things to the GOP in the Senate run offs.

    Which unless the legislature declares him a king is no longer his concern.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    [oops offtopic]

    CelestialBadger on
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    I think you have to be careful not to just double efforts- don’t have people getting 5 calls for Warnock and then another 5 for Ossoff- they need to figure out the voters that are swayed by one or the other and try to flip them into voting for the other, and the 95% of overlapping voters just need to be getting “vote mofackas!!!!!” calls

    EddyElvenshae
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    One thing to remember is that Trump is incredibly lazy. A lot of Trump’s grift is done by other people and several rats are already fleeing the SS MAGA.

    He’s still gonna whine on Twitter and rile his base, almost definitely gonna be some stochastic terrorism, and people absolutely lashed to Trump like his kids will continue to grift and be awful, but anything that requires Trump himself to do actual work hopefully doesn’t happen.

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