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President Biden's Cabinet

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  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Well, I would love to tell you it isn't. I really would. The specific discussions in this thread are because one seat could flip the Senate which is obviously extremely valuable. It is also why it wouldn't work for anyone other than a person ready to cash out their career for that specific cabinet spot for some reason.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    For dumb reasons, mostly cause Washington is afflicted with much of the same dipshit brainitis as Sorkin

    I was super on board with the “team of rivals” thing 12 years ago with Obama but 1: his republican cabinet dude I don’t think is even a republican anymore and 2: it became apparent very quickly it was really fucking stupid

    HachfaceEddy
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Corvus wrote: »
    As a non-American can someone explain why you would appoint someone from outside your party?

    I mean, in Parliamentary systems sometimes you would do this if you had a minority or coalition government but I don’t understand it in the US context.

    Please don’t tell me it’s in the name of some bullshit norms about being bi-partisan or something.

    The current generation of Democratic leadership came up in the 80s, an era when Reagan’s right wing nationalism convinced a generation saturated in Cold War propaganda to vote for the GOP en masse. Their politics reflect the idea that Republicans are dominant, and Democrats need to adopt their ideas to win.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Corvus wrote: »
    As a non-American can someone explain why you would appoint someone from outside your party?

    I mean, in Parliamentary systems sometimes you would do this if you had a minority or coalition government but I don’t understand it in the US context.

    Please don’t tell me it’s in the name of some bullshit norms about being bi-partisan or something.

    Our reasoning here is that you would appoint a Republican to remove them from the Senate. In 37 out of 50 states the process for replacing a Senator is that the Governor of that state gets to appoint a replacement to serve until the next regularly scheduled general election (November of even years, in most cases). A couple states with Republican Senators have Democratic Governors. So the scheme is to take the Senate majority. Johnson and Toomey in particular are retiring so could decide to fuck over their compatriots on the way out. It's mostly a fantasy though.

    enlightenedbum on
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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    I really hope Jared Bernstein gets Treasury rather than CEA or Labor. I mean, he'd be great wherever, but I want a lefty at Treasury who can just shut Republican bullshit down from memory.

    enlightenedbumPhoenix-DMan in the MistsElvenshaeshryke
  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Corvus wrote: »
    As a non-American can someone explain why you would appoint someone from outside your party?

    I mean, in Parliamentary systems sometimes you would do this if you had a minority or coalition government but I don’t understand it in the US context.

    Please don’t tell me it’s in the name of some bullshit norms about being bi-partisan or something.

    You usually appoint a few competent moderate people from the other party to show bipartisanship and because lots of times the most competent person isn't from your party.

    Defense tends to go to a Republican because most people who would be eligible and qualified tend to lean Republican and Republicans are traditionally seen as better at military stuff.

    You can also do strategic picks - if you can get a key Senator from the other party into a cabinet position they are out of the Senate. In this case if you can get Senators with a Democratic governor who appoints their replacement you could flip the Senate with everything being so close. Then they tow the line or get chucked out with nothing since Cabinet is up to the President.

    It's unlikely to work in this case but fine for theorycrafting.

    Eddy
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    As a non-American can someone explain why you would appoint someone from outside your party?

    I mean, in Parliamentary systems sometimes you would do this if you had a minority or coalition government but I don’t understand it in the US context.

    Please don’t tell me it’s in the name of some bullshit norms about being bi-partisan or something.

    You usually appoint a few competent moderate people from the other party to show bipartisanship and because lots of times the most competent person isn't from your party.

    Defense tends to go to a Republican because most people who would be eligible and qualified tend to lean Republican and Republicans are traditionally seen as better at military stuff.

    You can also do strategic picks - if you can get a key Senator from the other party into a cabinet position they are out of the Senate. In this case if you can get Senators with a Democratic governor who appoints their replacement you could flip the Senate with everything being so close. Then they tow the line or get chucked out with nothing since Cabinet is up to the President.

    It's unlikely to work in this case but fine for theorycrafting.

    Fuck that narrative about DOD though.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
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  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Well, I would love to tell you it isn't. I really would. The specific discussions in this thread are because one seat could flip the Senate which is obviously extremely valuable. It is also why it wouldn't work for anyone other than a person ready to cash out their career for that specific cabinet spot for some reason.

    I see.

    I understand the power play part I guess. But the other motivations... ugh.

    :so_raven:
  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Unmuzzling the CDC alone right now...

    Yeah, people seem to have forgotten that when they set up the USA pandemic diseases and public health were a huge deal. The CDC can do pretty much whatever the hell it wants to control pandemic viruses if the President lets them.

    Can Fauci become Surgeon General and remain in control of the CDC pandemic response?

    Outside of using money, I can see no better way to signal we're going to take this shit seriously once Biden is in office. Especially if Trump tries to get rid of him between now and then.

    dispatch.o on
  • Solomaxwell6Solomaxwell6 Registered User regular
    With McConnell as Majority Leader, we could end up seeing negotiations and compromises about senate positions, too. McConnell will tell Biden "Okay, I'll let Doug Jones have an open floor vote, but in return you have to nominate Ivanka as Secretary of State."

    That's an exaggeration, but there'll definitely be some kind of wheeling and dealing over who gets nominations.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Despite my earlier comment (fuck off im happy drunk) Warren actually sounds great for everything, especially DOD

  • asurasur Registered User regular
    Corvus wrote: »
    As a non-American can someone explain why you would appoint someone from outside your party?

    I mean, in Parliamentary systems sometimes you would do this if you had a minority or coalition government but I don’t understand it in the US context.

    Please don’t tell me it’s in the name of some bullshit norms about being bi-partisan or something.

    Because for some stupid reason it's been decided that only Republicans can be responsible leaders of war and spying. Then they fuck you over and give an election to a corrupt misogynist and hopefully Democrats have learned their lesson.

    SyphonBlueMan in the MistsEinzel
  • Solomaxwell6Solomaxwell6 Registered User regular
    Despite my earlier comment (fuck off im happy drunk) Warren actually sounds great for everything, especially DOD

    She especially sounds great as Senator, IMO.

    And I'd be surprised if McConnell even puts her up for a floor vote, unless it's solely to buy a few months of an even bigger GOP senate majority.

    krapst78Elldren
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    With McConnell as Majority Leader, we could end up seeing negotiations and compromises about senate positions, too. McConnell will tell Biden "Okay, I'll let Doug Jones have an open floor vote, but in return you have to nominate Ivanka as Secretary of State."

    That's an exaggeration, but there'll definitely be some kind of wheeling and dealing over who gets nominations.

    It’s been like 2 years since the senate confirmed anyone and Trump has had about 47 different department heads in that time so Biden can tell McConnell to eat all the fetid shit if he tries this

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Dems should be ready to plaster billboards telling McConnell to get fucked if he’s going to try a single goddamn thing with the cabinet

    ElvenshaeRanlin
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    With McConnell as Majority Leader, we could end up seeing negotiations and compromises about senate positions, too. McConnell will tell Biden "Okay, I'll let Doug Jones have an open floor vote, but in return you have to nominate Ivanka as Secretary of State."

    That's an exaggeration, but there'll definitely be some kind of wheeling and dealing over who gets nominations.

    It’s been like 2 years since the senate confirmed anyone and Trump has had about 47 different department heads in that time so Biden can tell McConnell to eat all the fetid shit if he tries this

    SCOTUS would suddenly consider this to be a problem for some reason.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Let’s see them enforce it then

    I think we have several catastrophic interior and DHS decisions that need to be redressed due to the orders being unlawful due to the heads being declared fake, but everyone’s still ignoring it

    Captain Inertia on
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  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    Dems should be ready to plaster billboards telling McConnell to get fucked if he’s going to try a single goddamn thing with the cabinet

    Reinstitute the WH daily briefing, but behind the press secretary is a screen that lists every nominee Mitch is holding up. And a second screen for bills passed by the House.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    With McConnell as Majority Leader, we could end up seeing negotiations and compromises about senate positions, too. McConnell will tell Biden "Okay, I'll let Doug Jones have an open floor vote, but in return you have to nominate Ivanka as Secretary of State."

    That's an exaggeration, but there'll definitely be some kind of wheeling and dealing over who gets nominations.

    It’s been like 2 years since the senate confirmed anyone and Trump has had about 47 different department heads in that time so Biden can tell McConnell to eat all the fetid shit if he tries this

    SCOTUS would suddenly consider this to be a problem for some reason.

    Great, we'll appoint 6 members of the Supreme Court to cabinet positions. Hope they have fun!

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Axios is already spreading rumors that McConnell is demanding certain "moderates" on the cabinet, but they're axios, so I'm not linking it.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Corvus wrote: »
    As a non-American can someone explain why you would appoint someone from outside your party?

    I mean, in Parliamentary systems sometimes you would do this if you had a minority or coalition government but I don’t understand it in the US context.

    Please don’t tell me it’s in the name of some bullshit norms about being bi-partisan or something.

    Sadly, that's exactly it. See also the number of people voting a Biden/Republican Senator split ticket out of a sense of "balance". American cultural myths are fucked up, and they are spoon fed to us throughout primary and secondary schooling.

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  • Solomaxwell6Solomaxwell6 Registered User regular
    With McConnell as Majority Leader, we could end up seeing negotiations and compromises about senate positions, too. McConnell will tell Biden "Okay, I'll let Doug Jones have an open floor vote, but in return you have to nominate Ivanka as Secretary of State."

    That's an exaggeration, but there'll definitely be some kind of wheeling and dealing over who gets nominations.

    It’s been like 2 years since the senate confirmed anyone and Trump has had about 47 different department heads in that time so Biden can tell McConnell to eat all the fetid shit if he tries this

    There are laws in place regarding who can serve in acting positions, and how that's determined. The president doesn't get to just pseudo-appoint whomever he wants. That would be a very, very clear end run around the Constitution.

  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    With McConnell as Majority Leader, we could end up seeing negotiations and compromises about senate positions, too. McConnell will tell Biden "Okay, I'll let Doug Jones have an open floor vote, but in return you have to nominate Ivanka as Secretary of State."

    That's an exaggeration, but there'll definitely be some kind of wheeling and dealing over who gets nominations.

    It’s been like 2 years since the senate confirmed anyone and Trump has had about 47 different department heads in that time so Biden can tell McConnell to eat all the fetid shit if he tries this

    There are laws in place regarding who can serve in acting positions, and how that's determined. The president doesn't get to just pseudo-appoint whomever he wants. That would be a very, very clear end run around the Constitution.

    Guess what's been happening the past two years.

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  • Solomaxwell6Solomaxwell6 Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    With McConnell as Majority Leader, we could end up seeing negotiations and compromises about senate positions, too. McConnell will tell Biden "Okay, I'll let Doug Jones have an open floor vote, but in return you have to nominate Ivanka as Secretary of State."

    That's an exaggeration, but there'll definitely be some kind of wheeling and dealing over who gets nominations.

    It’s been like 2 years since the senate confirmed anyone and Trump has had about 47 different department heads in that time so Biden can tell McConnell to eat all the fetid shit if he tries this

    There are laws in place regarding who can serve in acting positions, and how that's determined. The president doesn't get to just pseudo-appoint whomever he wants. That would be a very, very clear end run around the Constitution.

    Guess what's been happening the past two years.

    Okay, I'll take a shot at "guessing"!

    A number of cabinet officers have resigned and/or been fired. In almost every case, those positions have been filled by the appropriate successors. The "almost every case" is because of the DHS controversy. In that case, the Secretary of Homeland Security resigned, and there was an improper shuffling of positions in the DHS as officials took on acting roles that they shouldn't have. Now, your point is presumably that, a-ha!, Trump illegally appointed people to offices they couldn't hold, and nobody could do anything about it.

    Even the DHS case has absolutely nothing in common with Captain Inertia was suggesting Biden do.

    In the case of the DHS, the issue was that several people didn't follow the proper line of succession for a few different positions. Those people were already senate approved officials who could have been acting SecHS if the line of succession was different. The president has the power to change that line of succession. The issue in the end isn't that Trump did something he wasn't allowed to, it's that he was just too lazy to fill out the proper paperwork. That option is not available to Biden here, since he would need someone already in office to declare the acting secretary.

    MrMister
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited November 2020
    Via a politico reporter:


    Some extra NEWS: Former Bernie Sanders’ aides joshorton and Analilia_Mejia are working on the Biden Transition team, according to Democratic officials. The Transition team did not comment.

    Anyone familiar with those names? The Sanders campaign manager seems to speak well of them.

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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    With McConnell as Majority Leader, we could end up seeing negotiations and compromises about senate positions, too. McConnell will tell Biden "Okay, I'll let Doug Jones have an open floor vote, but in return you have to nominate Ivanka as Secretary of State."

    That's an exaggeration, but there'll definitely be some kind of wheeling and dealing over who gets nominations.

    It’s been like 2 years since the senate confirmed anyone and Trump has had about 47 different department heads in that time so Biden can tell McConnell to eat all the fetid shit if he tries this

    SCOTUS would suddenly consider this to be a problem for some reason.

    Then make them do something about it and then make them enforce it

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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    The first time this SCOTUS shows you a double standard, bury them with it.

    Got a problem with an acting secretary? Appoint three more the second they tell you to shit can one.

    They either play by the rules they laid down or you push them right back.

    They'll never respect the threat of court expansion otherwise

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  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    Corvus wrote: »
    As a non-American can someone explain why you would appoint someone from outside your party?

    I mean, in Parliamentary systems sometimes you would do this if you had a minority or coalition government but I don’t understand it in the US context.

    Please don’t tell me it’s in the name of some bullshit norms about being bi-partisan or something.

    Sadly, that's exactly it. See also the number of people voting a Biden/Republican Senator split ticket out of a sense of "balance". American cultural myths are fucked up, and they are spoon fed to us throughout primary and secondary schooling.

    That’s so stupid. You don’t defeat your enemies by becoming them or giving them power. You need to metaphorically step on their necks.

    :so_raven:
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  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited November 2020
    I'm not sure it's "balance" this time so much as "I'm mostly conservative but Trump is fucking insane." A good chunk of "independents" which probably includes ex-republicans.

    Biden specifically played for these people and he got some number of them, which gives us the presidency and nothing else.

    rahkeesh2000 on
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  • wazillawazilla Registered User regular
    Did anybody ever file suit about that though? I think Roberts will be VERY comfortable fucking with the Biden administration now that he perceives the threat of Trump to be gone and I'm terrified of what precedent this court will set when Republicans start bringing lawsuits on everything the admin does.

    Psn:wazukki
  • Solomaxwell6Solomaxwell6 Registered User regular
    wazilla wrote: »
    Did anybody ever file suit about that though? I think Roberts will be VERY comfortable fucking with the Biden administration now that he perceives the threat of Trump to be gone and I'm terrified of what precedent this court will set when Republicans start bringing lawsuits on everything the admin does.

    It's cropped up in lawsuits about specific cases, but if it ever became a thing, Trump would presumably have just issued an executive order amending the DHS line of succession.

  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Corvus wrote: »
    As a non-American can someone explain why you would appoint someone from outside your party?

    I mean, in Parliamentary systems sometimes you would do this if you had a minority or coalition government but I don’t understand it in the US context.

    Please don’t tell me it’s in the name of some bullshit norms about being bi-partisan or something.

    Our reasoning here is that you would appoint a Republican to remove them from the Senate. In 37 out of 50 states the process for replacing a Senator is that the Governor of that state gets to appoint a replacement to serve until the next regularly scheduled general election (November of even years, in most cases). A couple states with Republican Senators have Democratic Governors. So the scheme is to take the Senate majority. Johnson and Toomey in particular are retiring so could decide to fuck over their compatriots on the way out. It's mostly a fantasy though.

    Something that could keep this fantasy alive, at least in a 49-51 split, is that McConnell gets no say in who those democratic governors pick and democrats don't go back on their words. So if someone really wants to cash out. They could resign, wait for their replacement and now democrats have the majority and they get voted in for the spot. Not a fucking thing Mitch could do then. Still it's fantasy because whatever Biden offers, assuming goes about this smartly might not be good enough to entice them. On the other hand I did watch the Trump administration and republicans sell out the nation for essentially pocket change. So I could be wrong here.

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Corvus wrote: »
    As a non-American can someone explain why you would appoint someone from outside your party?

    I mean, in Parliamentary systems sometimes you would do this if you had a minority or coalition government but I don’t understand it in the US context.

    Please don’t tell me it’s in the name of some bullshit norms about being bi-partisan or something.

    Our reasoning here is that you would appoint a Republican to remove them from the Senate. In 37 out of 50 states the process for replacing a Senator is that the Governor of that state gets to appoint a replacement to serve until the next regularly scheduled general election (November of even years, in most cases). A couple states with Republican Senators have Democratic Governors. So the scheme is to take the Senate majority. Johnson and Toomey in particular are retiring so could decide to fuck over their compatriots on the way out. It's mostly a fantasy though.

    I think the 4d chess angle here is to offer a seat to various Senators in this situation, except do it like in mid December. Put them in a position of either needing to reject the new President-Elect's overtures in the name of partisanship, or take the seat and lose the Senate. You either get the Senate, or you get to go into the Georgia runoff armed with "these guys just don't care. I tried and nobody would take the olive branch, so instead let's win in Georgia!"

    JragghenElldrenEinzel
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    As a non-American can someone explain why you would appoint someone from outside your party?

    I mean, in Parliamentary systems sometimes you would do this if you had a minority or coalition government but I don’t understand it in the US context.

    Please don’t tell me it’s in the name of some bullshit norms about being bi-partisan or something.

    Our reasoning here is that you would appoint a Republican to remove them from the Senate. In 37 out of 50 states the process for replacing a Senator is that the Governor of that state gets to appoint a replacement to serve until the next regularly scheduled general election (November of even years, in most cases). A couple states with Republican Senators have Democratic Governors. So the scheme is to take the Senate majority. Johnson and Toomey in particular are retiring so could decide to fuck over their compatriots on the way out. It's mostly a fantasy though.

    I think the 4d chess angle here is to offer a seat to various Senators in this situation, except do it like in mid December. Put them in a position of either needing to reject the new President-Elect's overtures in the name of partisanship, or take the seat and lose the Senate. You either get the Senate, or you get to go into the Georgia runoff armed with "these guys just don't care. I tried and nobody would take the olive branch, so instead let's win in Georgia!"

    Eh. From the GOP dudes perspective that's a real shitty deal. One is they won't want it announced that they are considering it and realistically Biden wouldn't either. That's the sort of thing you do as a fait accompli and that can't happen until Biden is actually President. The other is that if one of them says yes then you don't get the Senate immediatly and Georgia GOP-ers are gonna be pissed/motivated at the betrayal come Jan 5.

    I think using the Georgia run offs as a cudgel against McConnel to get stimulus/COVID funds out sooner rather than later is a solid play. I don't think he can deliver the override or even a basic package. Make that the Georgia narrative of wanting to help people deal with COVID but mean McConnel isn't gonna let him.

    With the way the COVID numbers have been tracking this week it is gonna be fucking rough by special election day.

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  • MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    Corvus wrote: »
    As a non-American can someone explain why you would appoint someone from outside your party?

    I mean, in Parliamentary systems sometimes you would do this if you had a minority or coalition government but I don’t understand it in the US context.

    Please don’t tell me it’s in the name of some bullshit norms about being bi-partisan or something.

    As ebum says above, as the thread is imagining it, it is intended as furthering a partisan agenda of getting Rs out of seats--which, yes, would be lovely, but also yeah is mostly a fantasy.

    But it's also worth nothing that American party discipline and ideological homogeneity are traditionally very low compared to parliamentary systems. By contrast, we are now entering an era where American politics are extremely nationalized, polarized, and ideological, which is good in some ways but very bad in others. So we are heading more toward parliamentary-style discipline and the corresponding impossibility of imagining appointing another party's politician to a cabinet post. But in the past, it was sometimes reasonable to believe that this politician who happened to be a member of another party might still be the most competent person for the post and that they'd share enough of your vision (despite your party affiliations) for that to make sense.

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  • HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Registered User regular
    For dumb reasons, mostly cause Washington is afflicted with much of the same dipshit brainitis as Sorkin

    I was super on board with the “team of rivals” thing 12 years ago with Obama but 1: his republican cabinet dude I don’t think is even a republican anymore and 2: it became apparent very quickly it was really fucking stupid

    It's amazing the things we convinced ourselves were good ideas in the early Obama days.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Hachface wrote: »
    For dumb reasons, mostly cause Washington is afflicted with much of the same dipshit brainitis as Sorkin

    I was super on board with the “team of rivals” thing 12 years ago with Obama but 1: his republican cabinet dude I don’t think is even a republican anymore and 2: it became apparent very quickly it was really fucking stupid

    It's amazing the things we convinced ourselves were good ideas in the early Obama days.

    He ran on damping down the partisanship and tried it. He flipped a house seat for a few years by making the incumbent Secretary of the Army.

    Bribing out a Senator is probably not gonna be done with such a position though. Gonna have to be way more serious than that.

  • ZavianZavian universal peace sounds better than forever war Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Elki wrote: »
    With 90% of Democratic power going forward is going to be their control of foreign policy, I would hope they don't fuck that one up with one of the usual ghouls. I’ll wait for the actual picks to get a sense of where we’re headed.

    I don't see how. I don't see what we can do in foreign policy at the moment given all the damage that has been done.

    there's an ongoing genocide going on in Yemen which started in 2015 that has had DIRECT US support including aerial refueling of Saudi bombers. That's not to mention the US's own ongoing bombing operations globally. It can be put to a stop, but not with war hawks in the cabinet

  • LabelLabel Registered User regular
    I continue to believe the republican party is a fundamental threat to democracy in the united states. The idea that any of those ghouls would blow McConnel's majority for a cabinet job is hilariously absurd. And how many of the bastards took russian money through the NRA in 2016? Or some other corrupt foreign deal?

    Fuck putting a republican in the cabinet.

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  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Aegis wrote: »
    Via a politico reporter:


    Some extra NEWS: Former Bernie Sanders’ aides joshorton and Analilia_Mejia are working on the Biden Transition team, according to Democratic officials. The Transition team did not comment.

    Anyone familiar with those names? The Sanders campaign manager seems to speak well of them.

    The fact that they worked on the Sanders campaign but I haven’t heard their names gives me hope that they’re actually competent and concerned with doing the job well, as opposed to just setting up the next gig.

    The professional side of the Sanders campaign was actually run relatively well, all things considered.

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