Their problem is that Republicans won't pass a bill to fix the broke ass system.
Which is what Muñoz is saying in that quote.
The US immigration system has had the same problem for decades now: immigration reform can't pass congress because there's too many members who are white nationalist or beholden to white nationalists.
Muñoz presided over and defended a set of policy choices that saw a significant increase in deportation rates. "They're just doing what the law required" is flat out not true. They traded the well being of the Hispanic population for hopes that it would buy them GOP votes.
Biden will have a huge immigration crisis come spring. Hope they’re working on something
It's a guarantee that the moment Biden is in office Fox will be running 24/7 'immigrant rapist caravans are coming for your white daughters' stories. Expect Biden to get hammered on it and for every immigrant that even jaywalks to become a national news story about his lax enforcement.
The simple fact is to many Americans are racist, our immigration laws are terrible, and the Republicans refuse to do anything to fix it because a broken system is their best chance to turn out and forment racism that gets them (re)elected.
Immigration is just a field of rakes waiting for Biden and that's irrespective of COVID or the climate refugees that are only going to increase.
I have no idea how to solve this and even ramming reform down the countries throat guarantees the Democratic party will get savaged in the next election because racist country.
Muñoz presided over and defended a set of policy choices that saw a significant increase in deportation rates. "They're just doing what the law required" is flat out not true. They traded the well being of the Hispanic population for hopes that it would buy them GOP votes.
Most of that is from a change in definitions. If you count previous administrations the same way, it results in a huge increase in their numbers. Before ~ mid Bush W, anyone turned away right at the border didn't get counted. After, they did.
It's also worth pointing out the current outgoing administration is being completely closed off, so bringing in anyone who was near the top at the end of the Obama administration has intrinsic value just by virtue of giving them somewhere to start, because they're not being allowed to start at "present" and in some cases (like immigration) maybe should start from a restored back up copy rather than the current live state.
It's also worth pointing out the current outgoing administration is being completely closed off, so bringing in anyone who was near the top at the end of the Obama administration has intrinsic value just by virtue of giving them somewhere to start, because they're not being allowed to start at "present" and in some cases (like immigration) maybe should start from a restored back up copy rather than the current live state.
It's also all EOs and department policy, so rolling back to December 2016 is basically Biden saying 'mulligan' day 1.
The plus side I guess of Republicans being too chickenshit to actually pass laws either way.
If you elect Obama's VP you can expect to get a lot of the old team back. That's an advantage and a disadvantage.
Its only a disadvantage to the Biden Administration if their base is willing to protest their bad picks.
The base likes Obama and his team. The far left does not.
Doubt "the base" knows or cares who Cecilia Muñoz is though.
How people react to appointments and transition team names is going to be a bellwether for how much "we'll push him left once the election is over" is going to actually be a thing.
If you elect Obama's VP you can expect to get a lot of the old team back. That's an advantage and a disadvantage.
Its only a disadvantage to the Biden Administration if their base is willing to protest their bad picks.
The base likes Obama and his team. The far left does not.
How people react to appointments and transition team names is going to be a bellwether for how much "we'll push him left once the election is over" is going to actually be a thing.
You can push him left in some things but not all. He seems to be interested in environmentalism, but not in UHC for instance.
If you elect Obama's VP you can expect to get a lot of the old team back. That's an advantage and a disadvantage.
Its only a disadvantage to the Biden Administration if their base is willing to protest their bad picks.
The base likes Obama and his team. The far left does not.
How people react to appointments and transition team names is going to be a bellwether for how much "we'll push him left once the election is over" is going to actually be a thing.
You can push him left in some things but not all. He seems to be interested in environmentalism, but not in UHC for instance.
Nor on a substantially different outlook on immigration enforcement if this choice is any indication.
If you elect Obama's VP you can expect to get a lot of the old team back. That's an advantage and a disadvantage.
Its only a disadvantage to the Biden Administration if their base is willing to protest their bad picks.
The base likes Obama and his team. The far left does not.
How people react to appointments and transition team names is going to be a bellwether for how much "we'll push him left once the election is over" is going to actually be a thing.
You can push him left in some things but not all. He seems to be interested in environmentalism, but not in UHC for instance.
Nor on a substantially different outlook on immigration enforcement if this choice is any indication.
Maybe he can go back to defining it the way the did before, as @Phoenix-D mentioned, so the number will go down, since you don't seem to disagree on that aspect
If you elect Obama's VP you can expect to get a lot of the old team back. That's an advantage and a disadvantage.
Its only a disadvantage to the Biden Administration if their base is willing to protest their bad picks.
The base likes Obama and his team. The far left does not.
How people react to appointments and transition team names is going to be a bellwether for how much "we'll push him left once the election is over" is going to actually be a thing.
You can push him left in some things but not all. He seems to be interested in environmentalism, but not in UHC for instance.
Nor on a substantially different outlook on immigration enforcement if this choice is any indication.
It's not nice to think about but Obama's stance on immigration was about as positive as it is possible to get in the USA. Biden will get obliterated at the next election if he goes more left than Obama.
The whole world is freaking out about immigrants right now, and its driving a lot of fascist resurgence. It's not likely to get better as climate change drives more refugees from their homes.
If you elect Obama's VP you can expect to get a lot of the old team back. That's an advantage and a disadvantage.
Its only a disadvantage to the Biden Administration if their base is willing to protest their bad picks.
The base likes Obama and his team. The far left does not.
How people react to appointments and transition team names is going to be a bellwether for how much "we'll push him left once the election is over" is going to actually be a thing.
You can push him left in some things but not all. He seems to be interested in environmentalism, but not in UHC for instance.
Nor on a substantially different outlook on immigration enforcement if this choice is any indication.
Maybe he can go back to defining it the way the did before, as @Phoenix-D mentioned, so the number will go down, since you don't seem to disagree on that aspect
He said "mostly", which whatever, I'm not interested in those semantics. The redefinition of deportation did not account for the full increase in deportation. Immigration enforcement under Obama was deeply cruel and a lot of Hispanic activists are pissed off about this pick for good reason.
If you elect Obama's VP you can expect to get a lot of the old team back. That's an advantage and a disadvantage.
Its only a disadvantage to the Biden Administration if their base is willing to protest their bad picks.
The base likes Obama and his team. The far left does not.
How people react to appointments and transition team names is going to be a bellwether for how much "we'll push him left once the election is over" is going to actually be a thing.
You can push him left in some things but not all. He seems to be interested in environmentalism, but not in UHC for instance.
Nor on a substantially different outlook on immigration enforcement if this choice is any indication.
It's not nice to think about but Obama's stance on immigration was about as positive as it is possible to get in the USA. Biden will get obliterated at the next election if he goes more left than Obama.
The whole world is freaking out about immigrants right now, and its driving a lot of fascist resurgence. It's not likely to get better as climate change drives more refugees from their homes.
Obama spent 8 years running center-right on immigration enforcement and 2016 still went to the guy who wouldn't stop screaming about how weak he was on immigrants. We don't need to sell out our own activists.
If you elect Obama's VP you can expect to get a lot of the old team back. That's an advantage and a disadvantage.
Its only a disadvantage to the Biden Administration if their base is willing to protest their bad picks.
The base likes Obama and his team. The far left does not.
How people react to appointments and transition team names is going to be a bellwether for how much "we'll push him left once the election is over" is going to actually be a thing.
You can push him left in some things but not all. He seems to be interested in environmentalism, but not in UHC for instance.
Nor on a substantially different outlook on immigration enforcement if this choice is any indication.
Maybe he can go back to defining it the way the did before, as @Phoenix-D mentioned, so the number will go down, since you don't seem to disagree on that aspect
He said "mostly", which whatever, I'm not interested in those semantics. The redefinition of deportation did not account for the full increase in deportation. Immigration enforcement under Obama was deeply cruel and a lot of Hispanic activists are pissed off about this pick for good reason.
If you elect Obama's VP you can expect to get a lot of the old team back. That's an advantage and a disadvantage.
Its only a disadvantage to the Biden Administration if their base is willing to protest their bad picks.
The base likes Obama and his team. The far left does not.
How people react to appointments and transition team names is going to be a bellwether for how much "we'll push him left once the election is over" is going to actually be a thing.
You can push him left in some things but not all. He seems to be interested in environmentalism, but not in UHC for instance.
Nor on a substantially different outlook on immigration enforcement if this choice is any indication.
It's not nice to think about but Obama's stance on immigration was about as positive as it is possible to get in the USA. Biden will get obliterated at the next election if he goes more left than Obama.
The whole world is freaking out about immigrants right now, and its driving a lot of fascist resurgence. It's not likely to get better as climate change drives more refugees from their homes.
Obama spent 8 years running center-right on immigration enforcement and 2016 still went to the guy who wouldn't stop screaming about how weak he was on immigrants. We don't need to sell out our own activists.
Well, it's like the way the right screamed that Biden was a socialist but it didn't make much difference because anyone who might possibly vote Democrat knew he was not. But there are quite a lot of actual Democrat voters who aren't in favour of a lot of immigration. Working class people who think it depresses wages and middle-class people who are resentful of "H1B" workers.
Yeah Imma need one or both of y'all to drop some data in the Immigration thread. Also data != semantics that's the type of ignorance I normally only see from under informed conservatives.
There's an immigration thread still I think that I'd be happy to take it to if there's any point.
Munoz finding a place in the transition was just a stupid call. She angers activists. We just got through an election with plenty of reason to be nervous about ongoing appeal among minority populations.
It's definitely bad optics. No doubt. And she should not actually join the administration. That's a line in the sand; if she's in a Biden admin that's protest territory.
Maybe with the exception of if she's doing clear and obviously immigration reform advocacy work, but even then, again, really bad optics
We just got through an election with plenty of reason to be nervous about ongoing appeal among minority populations.
Some minority populations are actually turning the opposite way: they are anti-immigrant themselves. It led to a slight but noticeable increase in Black and Hispanic Republican voters in the South. Just being a minority doesn't necessarily make you a Democrat. "My family got here the legal way and so should they" is a common way of thinking.
We just got through an election with plenty of reason to be nervous about ongoing appeal among minority populations.
Some minority populations are actually turning the opposite way: they are anti-immigrant themselves. It led to a slight but noticeable increase in Black and Hispanic Republican voters in the South. Just being a minority doesn't necessarily make you a Democrat. "My family got here the legal way and so should they" is a common way of thinking.
Yes that's my point. If you keep on with the heavy handed enforcement and keep pissing off activists with staffing choices like this you'll lose support.
We just got through an election with plenty of reason to be nervous about ongoing appeal among minority populations.
Some minority populations are actually turning the opposite way: they are anti-immigrant themselves. It led to a slight but noticeable increase in Black and Hispanic Republican voters in the South. Just being a minority doesn't necessarily make you a Democrat. "My family got here the legal way and so should they" is a common way of thinking.
Yes that's my point. If you keep on with the heavy handed enforcement and keep pissing off activists with staffing choices like this you'll lose support.
My point was the opposite: some minorities and people from legal immigrant families are pissed off because they want more heavy-handed enforcement. Seems crazy but in politics, many things are crazy.
If "it angers activists" is our bar, things won't get anywhere :P
What Biden does (or says he'll do, at this point, as he's not President yet) is what matters. This is something to keep an eye on, and maybe get angry about later, but for now it's nothing more.
We just got through an election with plenty of reason to be nervous about ongoing appeal among minority populations.
Some minority populations are actually turning the opposite way: they are anti-immigrant themselves. It led to a slight but noticeable increase in Black and Hispanic Republican voters in the South. Just being a minority doesn't necessarily make you a Democrat. "My family got here the legal way and so should they" is a common way of thinking.
Yes that's my point. If you keep on with the heavy handed enforcement and keep pissing off activists with staffing choices like this you'll lose support.
My point was the opposite: some minorities and people from legal immigrant families are pissed off because they want more heavy-handed enforcement. Seems crazy but in politics, many things are crazy.
A lot of people are fine pulling up the ladder.
And a lot of people are fine saying they did it the 'right' way so why can't 'they're which is the same since the ladder is already up but THEY aren't the one pulling it up.
Nothing is simple or easy and a good percentage of any group of people kinda suck.
We just got through an election with plenty of reason to be nervous about ongoing appeal among minority populations.
Some minority populations are actually turning the opposite way: they are anti-immigrant themselves. It led to a slight but noticeable increase in Black and Hispanic Republican voters in the South. Just being a minority doesn't necessarily make you a Democrat. "My family got here the legal way and so should they" is a common way of thinking.
Yes that's my point. If you keep on with the heavy handed enforcement and keep pissing off activists with staffing choices like this you'll lose support.
My point was the opposite: some minorities and people from legal immigrant families are pissed off because they want more heavy-handed enforcement. Seems crazy but in politics, many things are crazy.
Each ladder you pull up just makes it easier to pull up the next one.
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We just got through an election with plenty of reason to be nervous about ongoing appeal among minority populations.
Some minority populations are actually turning the opposite way: they are anti-immigrant themselves. It led to a slight but noticeable increase in Black and Hispanic Republican voters in the South. Just being a minority doesn't necessarily make you a Democrat. "My family got here the legal way and so should they" is a common way of thinking.
Yes that's my point. If you keep on with the heavy handed enforcement and keep pissing off activists with staffing choices like this you'll lose support.
My point was the opposite: some minorities and people from legal immigrant families are pissed off because they want more heavy-handed enforcement. Seems crazy but in politics, many things are crazy.
Each ladder you pull up just makes it easier to pull up the next one.
They feel confident that they are "one of the good ones" because of their US passports. Which is true - for now.
We just got through an election with plenty of reason to be nervous about ongoing appeal among minority populations.
Some minority populations are actually turning the opposite way: they are anti-immigrant themselves. It led to a slight but noticeable increase in Black and Hispanic Republican voters in the South. Just being a minority doesn't necessarily make you a Democrat. "My family got here the legal way and so should they" is a common way of thinking.
Yes that's my point. If you keep on with the heavy handed enforcement and keep pissing off activists with staffing choices like this you'll lose support.
My point was the opposite: some minorities and people from legal immigrant families are pissed off because they want more heavy-handed enforcement. Seems crazy but in politics, many things are crazy.
Each ladder you pull up just makes it easier to pull up the next one.
They feel confident that they are "one of the good ones" because of their US passports. Which is true - for now.
Or green cards or visas. It's not just naturalized citizens wanting to stop more immigration.
We just got through an election with plenty of reason to be nervous about ongoing appeal among minority populations.
Some minority populations are actually turning the opposite way: they are anti-immigrant themselves. It led to a slight but noticeable increase in Black and Hispanic Republican voters in the South. Just being a minority doesn't necessarily make you a Democrat. "My family got here the legal way and so should they" is a common way of thinking.
Yes that's my point. If you keep on with the heavy handed enforcement and keep pissing off activists with staffing choices like this you'll lose support.
My point was the opposite: some minorities and people from legal immigrant families are pissed off because they want more heavy-handed enforcement. Seems crazy but in politics, many things are crazy.
Each ladder you pull up just makes it easier to pull up the next one.
They feel confident that they are "one of the good ones" because of their US passports. Which is true - for now.
Or green cards or visas. It's not just naturalized citizens wanting to stop more immigration.
Of course, those who are not citizens don't get a vote.
That some immigrants engage in treehousing is nothing new and this thing where we act like it, and not repeated policy and messaging failures, is the reason minority support numbers are worrying is silly.
The majority of Republican-leaning people I know are people not born in the US who don't want others to come. They can't always vote, but they can influence people who do, don't underestimate that!
That said, this is just anecdotal, no idea how much it maps to immigrants as a whole.
That some immigrants engage in treehousing is nothing new and this thing where we act like it, and not repeated policy and messaging failures, is the reason minority support numbers are worrying is silly.
You pull up the ladder when the people in power force a crab bucket below you. Every one of us would do the same thing.
The problem isn't people pulling up the ladder, its the people forcing a crab bucket on anyone whose wealth is less than seven / eight figures.
That some immigrants engage in treehousing is nothing new and this thing where we act like it, and not repeated policy and messaging failures, is the reason minority support numbers are worrying is silly.
You pull up the ladder when the people in power force a crab bucket below you. Every one of us would do the same thing.
The problem isn't people pulling up the ladder, its the people forcing a crab bucket on anyone whose wealth is less than seven / eight figures.
It can be both
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That some immigrants engage in treehousing is nothing new and this thing where we act like it, and not repeated policy and messaging failures, is the reason minority support numbers are worrying is silly.
You pull up the ladder when the people in power force a crab bucket below you. Every one of us would do the same thing.
The problem isn't people pulling up the ladder, its the people forcing a crab bucket on anyone whose wealth is less than seven / eight figures.
It can be both
Well, no, not really. One is the actual problem, the other is a symptom of the real problem. Treating symptoms without addressing the underlying problem can sometimes end up being counterproductive.
I think that was the general point being made there
That some immigrants engage in treehousing is nothing new and this thing where we act like it, and not repeated policy and messaging failures, is the reason minority support numbers are worrying is silly.
You pull up the ladder when the people in power force a crab bucket below you. Every one of us would do the same thing.
The problem isn't people pulling up the ladder, its the people forcing a crab bucket on anyone whose wealth is less than seven / eight figures.
It can be both
Well, no, not really. One is the actual problem, the other is a symptom of the real problem. Treating symptoms without addressing the underlying problem can sometimes end up being counterproductive.
I think that was the general point being made there
I reject any narrative that eschews solidarity for insisting that we had no choice but to abandon our fellow travelers because it was momentarily advantageous to do so.
You either reject your baser impulses to work together or you don't.
RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
Come Overwatch with meeeee
That some immigrants engage in treehousing is nothing new and this thing where we act like it, and not repeated policy and messaging failures, is the reason minority support numbers are worrying is silly.
You pull up the ladder when the people in power force a crab bucket below you. Every one of us would do the same thing.
The problem isn't people pulling up the ladder, its the people forcing a crab bucket on anyone whose wealth is less than seven / eight figures.
It can be both
Well, no, not really. One is the actual problem, the other is a symptom of the real problem. Treating symptoms without addressing the underlying problem can sometimes end up being counterproductive.
I think that was the general point being made there
I reject any narrative that eschews solidarity for insisting that we had no choice but to abandon our fellow travelers because it was momentarily advantageous to do so.
You either reject your baser impulses to work together or you don't.
Can you rephrase this in dumb? I legitimately cannot make any sense of what you're trying to say here. At all.
That some immigrants engage in treehousing is nothing new and this thing where we act like it, and not repeated policy and messaging failures, is the reason minority support numbers are worrying is silly.
You pull up the ladder when the people in power force a crab bucket below you. Every one of us would do the same thing.
The problem isn't people pulling up the ladder, its the people forcing a crab bucket on anyone whose wealth is less than seven / eight figures.
It can be both
Well, no, not really. One is the actual problem, the other is a symptom of the real problem. Treating symptoms without addressing the underlying problem can sometimes end up being counterproductive.
I think that was the general point being made there
I reject any narrative that eschews solidarity for insisting that we had no choice but to abandon our fellow travelers because it was momentarily advantageous to do so.
You either reject your baser impulses to work together or you don't.
I have a hard time blaming someone facing ruin or capitulation who chooses capitulation.
Privilege does a lot of heavy lifting in your argument.
Posts
Which is what Muñoz is saying in that quote.
The US immigration system has had the same problem for decades now: immigration reform can't pass congress because there's too many members who are white nationalist or beholden to white nationalists.
It's a guarantee that the moment Biden is in office Fox will be running 24/7 'immigrant rapist caravans are coming for your white daughters' stories. Expect Biden to get hammered on it and for every immigrant that even jaywalks to become a national news story about his lax enforcement.
The simple fact is to many Americans are racist, our immigration laws are terrible, and the Republicans refuse to do anything to fix it because a broken system is their best chance to turn out and forment racism that gets them (re)elected.
Immigration is just a field of rakes waiting for Biden and that's irrespective of COVID or the climate refugees that are only going to increase.
I have no idea how to solve this and even ramming reform down the countries throat guarantees the Democratic party will get savaged in the next election because racist country.
Most of that is from a change in definitions. If you count previous administrations the same way, it results in a huge increase in their numbers. Before ~ mid Bush W, anyone turned away right at the border didn't get counted. After, they did.
It's also all EOs and department policy, so rolling back to December 2016 is basically Biden saying 'mulligan' day 1.
The plus side I guess of Republicans being too chickenshit to actually pass laws either way.
Its only a disadvantage to the Biden Administration if their base is willing to protest their bad picks.
The base likes Obama and his team. The far left does not.
Doubt "the base" knows or cares who Cecilia Muñoz is though.
How people react to appointments and transition team names is going to be a bellwether for how much "we'll push him left once the election is over" is going to actually be a thing.
You can push him left in some things but not all. He seems to be interested in environmentalism, but not in UHC for instance.
Nor on a substantially different outlook on immigration enforcement if this choice is any indication.
Maybe he can go back to defining it the way the did before, as @Phoenix-D mentioned, so the number will go down, since you don't seem to disagree on that aspect
It's not nice to think about but Obama's stance on immigration was about as positive as it is possible to get in the USA. Biden will get obliterated at the next election if he goes more left than Obama.
The whole world is freaking out about immigrants right now, and its driving a lot of fascist resurgence. It's not likely to get better as climate change drives more refugees from their homes.
Such as by the second consecutive record-breakingly named hurricane pummeling Central America in as many weeks.
He said "mostly", which whatever, I'm not interested in those semantics. The redefinition of deportation did not account for the full increase in deportation. Immigration enforcement under Obama was deeply cruel and a lot of Hispanic activists are pissed off about this pick for good reason.
Obama spent 8 years running center-right on immigration enforcement and 2016 still went to the guy who wouldn't stop screaming about how weak he was on immigrants. We don't need to sell out our own activists.
Well, it's like the way the right screamed that Biden was a socialist but it didn't make much difference because anyone who might possibly vote Democrat knew he was not. But there are quite a lot of actual Democrat voters who aren't in favour of a lot of immigration. Working class people who think it depresses wages and middle-class people who are resentful of "H1B" workers.
(also she would appreciate it if you trimmed your @'s)
Yes, I expect better of my side.
Munoz finding a place in the transition was just a stupid call. She angers activists. We just got through an election with plenty of reason to be nervous about ongoing appeal among minority populations.
Maybe with the exception of if she's doing clear and obviously immigration reform advocacy work, but even then, again, really bad optics
Some minority populations are actually turning the opposite way: they are anti-immigrant themselves. It led to a slight but noticeable increase in Black and Hispanic Republican voters in the South. Just being a minority doesn't necessarily make you a Democrat. "My family got here the legal way and so should they" is a common way of thinking.
Yes that's my point. If you keep on with the heavy handed enforcement and keep pissing off activists with staffing choices like this you'll lose support.
My point was the opposite: some minorities and people from legal immigrant families are pissed off because they want more heavy-handed enforcement. Seems crazy but in politics, many things are crazy.
What Biden does (or says he'll do, at this point, as he's not President yet) is what matters. This is something to keep an eye on, and maybe get angry about later, but for now it's nothing more.
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A lot of people are fine pulling up the ladder.
And a lot of people are fine saying they did it the 'right' way so why can't 'they're which is the same since the ladder is already up but THEY aren't the one pulling it up.
Nothing is simple or easy and a good percentage of any group of people kinda suck.
Each ladder you pull up just makes it easier to pull up the next one.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
They feel confident that they are "one of the good ones" because of their US passports. Which is true - for now.
Or green cards or visas. It's not just naturalized citizens wanting to stop more immigration.
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Of course, those who are not citizens don't get a vote.
That said, this is just anecdotal, no idea how much it maps to immigrants as a whole.
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You pull up the ladder when the people in power force a crab bucket below you. Every one of us would do the same thing.
The problem isn't people pulling up the ladder, its the people forcing a crab bucket on anyone whose wealth is less than seven / eight figures.
It can be both
Come Overwatch with meeeee
Well, no, not really. One is the actual problem, the other is a symptom of the real problem. Treating symptoms without addressing the underlying problem can sometimes end up being counterproductive.
I think that was the general point being made there
I reject any narrative that eschews solidarity for insisting that we had no choice but to abandon our fellow travelers because it was momentarily advantageous to do so.
You either reject your baser impulses to work together or you don't.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
Joseph Keppler, "Looking Backward", Puck (18 fucking 93)
Can you rephrase this in dumb? I legitimately cannot make any sense of what you're trying to say here. At all.
I have a hard time blaming someone facing ruin or capitulation who chooses capitulation.
Privilege does a lot of heavy lifting in your argument.