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The General [Coronavirus] Discussion Thread: Vaccines!

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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    I saw this morning that birx has officially retired, so yeah was allowed to do that so the headline wasn't fired.

    Torched her reputation for Donald Trump

    For the GOP. The party gave her the position, and she chose loyalty to it over the public. She jumped when Trump became toxic, but she’d already revealed that she was a political appointee and not a neutral civil servant.

    Are we thinking of the same Birx? Because she definitely was on Team Trump there, with the whole injected bleach thing.

    Moridin889CouscousBullheadzagdrobPreacherMosati
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    There is something kind of huge related to Covid buried in this NY Times article about Biden's stimulus and reviving the economy:
    Mr. Biden will also seek to allow workers to draw unemployment benefits if they quit jobs they fear are unsafe amid the pandemic, by asserting “that workers have a federally guaranteed right to refuse employment that will jeopardize their health, and if they do so, they will still qualify for unemployment insurance,” White House officials said in a fact sheet detailing the orders.

    While it doesn't seem that any rich were eaten. It definitely feels like a soup course with broth made from rich stock - bouillonaire if you will - was had.

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I saw this morning that birx has officially retired, so yeah was allowed to do that so the headline wasn't fired.

    Torched her reputation for Donald Trump

    For the GOP. The party gave her the position, and she chose loyalty to it over the public. She jumped when Trump became toxic, but she’d already revealed that she was a political appointee and not a neutral civil servant.

    Are we thinking of the same Birx? Because she definitely was on Team Trump there, with the whole injected bleach thing.

    She did some reputation saving interviews after the election, and rumors are she petitioned Biden to stay on.

  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    There is something kind of huge related to Covid buried in this NY Times article about Biden's stimulus and reviving the economy:
    Mr. Biden will also seek to allow workers to draw unemployment benefits if they quit jobs they fear are unsafe amid the pandemic, by asserting “that workers have a federally guaranteed right to refuse employment that will jeopardize their health, and if they do so, they will still qualify for unemployment insurance,” White House officials said in a fact sheet detailing the orders.

    A good friend of mine quit working at Walmart 7 months ago because they had some serious issues at his store with anti-maskers among his staff. He'd been at the company 11 years. Burned through his savings and this help would have been life changing. I fear it's too late now.

    Jragghen
  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    https://www.ft.com/content/3dbfe495-5947-4dd0-9f43-5edc5e6d6dc7

    Real bad EU news, Oxford Vaccine significantly reducing 1st quarter deliveries. Rumored to be -60%, or 50m doses in Q1 EU wide.

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    SanderJK wrote: »
    https://www.ft.com/content/3dbfe495-5947-4dd0-9f43-5edc5e6d6dc7

    Real bad EU news, Oxford Vaccine significantly reducing 1st quarter deliveries. Rumored to be -60%, or 50m doses in Q1 EU wide.

    Terrible news if true, potentially terrible enough that someone should get on the horn to pfizer and tell them to cancel their plant upgrades until Oxford can deliver in greater numbers. Theres a time value to vaccines.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    US Covid hospitalizations continue to free fall at an accelerating rate.



    Hospital census dropped by 3% just from yesterday to today (119927 to 116264), and is down 8.7% from the same day the previous week. It is down 12.3% from its apparent peak on Jan. 6.

    Some of this is cases dropping, but it seems likely to me that some of it is the first effects of vaccination campaigns in LTCF, which make up a tiny percentage of the population but a fairly large chunk of hospitalizations.

    If hospital census dropped by 3685 every day (they won't, this is just a way of framing how big the drop is) we would reach 0 by Feb. 23.

    JragghenGilgaronOrcaJaysonFour
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited January 23
    For some vaguely good news to sustain those who might be feeling a little grim today.

    Cases are currently falling in...

    1) The UK (7 day average down 33% in 10 days)
    2) Israel (7 day average down 10% in 10 days
    3) South Africa (7 day average down 33% in 10 days)
    4) Denmark (7 day average down 40% in 10 days)
    5) The USA (7 day average down 25% in 10 days)
    6) South Korea (7 day average down 33% in 10 days)

    Brazil is currently flat

    For more potentially good news, the relative prevalence of the 'novel' strain in England is actually falling, not rising. IE, day over day a smaller fraction of infected people have the novel strain and more people have random wild type strains.

    These are all the places which have been widely reported in the news as facing the largest burden from novel strains, or from pre-existing spread, or from a loss of control after previous good performance. What this means is that regardless of the properties the new strains may have, they can be contained while vaccination efforts continue. Places with good performance are not doomed to failure, this has not all been a big waste of time. Hold the line.

    tbloxham on
    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
    JragghenCelestialBadgerInkstain82
  • jmcdonaldjmcdonald I voted, did you? DC(ish)Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    There is something kind of huge related to Covid buried in this NY Times article about Biden's stimulus and reviving the economy:
    Mr. Biden will also seek to allow workers to draw unemployment benefits if they quit jobs they fear are unsafe amid the pandemic, by asserting “that workers have a federally guaranteed right to refuse employment that will jeopardize their health, and if they do so, they will still qualify for unemployment insurance,” White House officials said in a fact sheet detailing the orders.

    That language is super important

    shryke wrote: »
    ...Barack "charisma isn't a dump stat, nerds" Obama...
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Dang, Larry King died of COVID

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  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    Dang, Larry King died of COVID
    What shit luck.
    Imagine having survived polio, the Spanish flu, cholera, smallpox, and the black death only to die of COVID with vaccines so close.

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  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    I did a vaccination questionnaire a German news site put together for some info when I might be eligible.

    As an non prioritised person the answer was: maybe starting June 2022 if the vaccination campaign ramps up as planned.
    If vaccination continues with its current pace: May 2023

    Let's hope biontech Pfizer and astrazeneca get their shit together soon

  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    I did a vaccination questionnaire a German news site put together for some info when I might be eligible.

    As an non prioritised person the answer was: maybe starting June 2022 if the vaccination campaign ramps up as planned.
    If vaccination continues with its current pace: May 2023

    Let's hope biontech Pfizer and astrazeneca get their shit together soon

    I hope those are severely pessimistic estimates. Here in Norway the talk is the entire adult population at least this year.

    Of course, there are a lot fewer of us than of you Germans, but I was under the impression that the EU distributed vaccines roughly based on population size? (While not EU, Norway gets its vaccines via the same deal as the EU.)

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Current pace is just super shit because all the manufacturers cancelled shipments or reduced numbers on short notice over the last few days. supposedly they'll be back bin track in February but who knows.

    FencingsaxTetraNitroCubane
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Also, hopefully more vaccines becoming available will shift those numbers in a better direction as well. The one dose ones with reduced refrigeration requirements would likely be a big boon there, assuming production requirements and cost aren’t too egregiously out of line.

    I’m not surprised the trackers/estimators have shifted with those changes and announcements. I think I’ll avoid looking for an updated target date locally, mine was already around august 2021, and I’m sure that’s moved back, but until it’s down to “theoretically weeks away” it’ll remain a moving target anyways.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
    OrcaGnome-Interruptus
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Ramping production is usually an error-prone affair filled with delays when you're making something new. So I'm disappointed, but not surprised.

    CelestialBadgerFencingsaxGilgaron
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    Ramping production is usually an error-prone affair filled with delays when you're making something new. So I'm disappointed, but not surprised.

    Remember how tests were as rare as hen's teeth in March last year, but by the fall there were plenty of them? I expect the same sort of thing to happen.

    thatassemblyguyOrcaSleepShadowfireMoridin889Mortal Sky
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    For some vaguely good news to sustain those who might be feeling a little grim today.

    Cases are currently falling in...

    1) The UK (7 day average down 33% in 10 days)
    2) Israel (7 day average down 10% in 10 days
    3) South Africa (7 day average down 33% in 10 days)
    4) Denmark (7 day average down 40% in 10 days)
    5) The USA (7 day average down 25% in 10 days)
    6) South Korea (7 day average down 33% in 10 days)

    Brazil is currently flat

    For more potentially good news, the relative prevalence of the 'novel' strain in England is actually falling, not rising. IE, day over day a smaller fraction of infected people have the novel strain and more people have random wild type strains.

    These are all the places which have been widely reported in the news as facing the largest burden from novel strains, or from pre-existing spread, or from a loss of control after previous good performance. What this means is that regardless of the properties the new strains may have, they can be contained while vaccination efforts continue. Places with good performance are not doomed to failure, this has not all been a big waste of time. Hold the line.

    Signs that the XMas surge is cresting?

    JragghenJean
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    The UK had a huge surge recently, so the numbers going down doesn't mean things are improving, merely that things are returning to how they had been - which was not great - after a large surge in cases.

    I also don't trust Israel's numbers because they don't test or vaccinate a large portion of the human beings living within their claimed borders.

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  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    edited January 23
    tbloxham wrote: »
    For some vaguely good news to sustain those who might be feeling a little grim today.

    Cases are currently falling in...

    1) The UK (7 day average down 33% in 10 days)
    2) Israel (7 day average down 10% in 10 days
    3) South Africa (7 day average down 33% in 10 days)
    4) Denmark (7 day average down 40% in 10 days)
    5) The USA (7 day average down 25% in 10 days)
    6) South Korea (7 day average down 33% in 10 days)

    Brazil is currently flat

    For more potentially good news, the relative prevalence of the 'novel' strain in England is actually falling, not rising. IE, day over day a smaller fraction of infected people have the novel strain and more people have random wild type strains.

    These are all the places which have been widely reported in the news as facing the largest burden from novel strains, or from pre-existing spread, or from a loss of control after previous good performance. What this means is that regardless of the properties the new strains may have, they can be contained while vaccination efforts continue. Places with good performance are not doomed to failure, this has not all been a big waste of time. Hold the line.

    Signs that the XMas surge is cresting?

    Yes. But.

    With viral spread, each generation builds on itself. Before Christmas, it was growing. So even if Christmas caused it to grow faster, it would still be growing after Christmas, just as a slower rate.

    The fact that the virus is receding, and quickly, shows that something is very different than it was before Christmas.

    It seems like people have forgotten all the lessons about exponential growth we learned last spring.

    Inkstain82 on
    MeeqeJaysonFour
  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    US has hit about 1.4million doses reported administered for four days in a row. I don't know if it will slow down over the weekend or not. Even if we cut that in half to account for two-dose regimen, that's enough to account for 1.5% of the US population every week.

    The cumulative effect this should* have on transmission rates adds up quickly. If you are at plateau (R0 of 1.0), then a week later you're at .985 and the virus starts to shrink. The next week you're at 0.9702 and it shrinks even faster. If you keep everything else the same**, the rate of decline steepens as you keep vaccinating.

    * - technically we don't know that the vaccine slows down transmission, because that wasn't a primary focus of the study. But expert opinion on how viruses and vaccines work, combined with preliminary data, suggests it probably does.

    ** - everything won't stay the same. Transmission rates have both upward and downward pressure from a variety of factors. We're also shrinking the susceptible pool through our still fairly high amount of infections. Plus weather is improving a little bit in some areas of the country, we are past the peak of winter. But human behavior and government interventions will also start to loosen as people notice things improving, and the new variants could end up putting upward pressure on transmission rates as well.

    wobblyheadedbobMeeqeJragghen
  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited January 23
    I don't think the weekend will slow down, my area is holding 2 12 hour long clincs to vax 8k people today and tomorrow.

    (I'm about to be on my way to my appointment for my first shot!)

    edit: man it was weird seeing so many people. it was kind of haphazardly set up. as I was socially distancing walking in, like 4 old people were walking back through the entrance line trying to thank all the workers and bunching up and blocking the way. It was the worst. But got my shot!

    second edit: I was given an extra stop for weakened immune system (due to meds), and the guy was like 'well........ you should still get it obviously, but like, I guess it wont be as effective? go ahead and head over and get it'. very reassuring.

    DiannaoChong on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Cool the UK variant is in Washtenaw County with a public exposure at the main grocery store my parents use. Though they say they were not there at the time the county is concerned by.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    I saw this morning that birx has officially retired, so yeah was allowed to do that so the headline wasn't fired.

    Torched her reputation for Donald Trump

    For the GOP. The party gave her the position, and she chose loyalty to it over the public. She jumped when Trump became toxic, but she’d already revealed that she was a political appointee and not a neutral civil servant.

    Are we thinking of the same Birx? Because she definitely was on Team Trump there, with the whole injected bleach thing.

    And a cringe inducing interview in march where she talked up his intelligence and aptitude. Like Fauci had to play ball to keep working for america, but didn't grovel and spread bullshit like Birx.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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    Fencingsax
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited January 24
    I don't think the weekend will slow down, my area is holding 2 12 hour long clincs to vax 8k people today and tomorrow.

    (I'm about to be on my way to my appointment for my first shot!)

    edit: man it was weird seeing so many people. it was kind of haphazardly set up. as I was socially distancing walking in, like 4 old people were walking back through the entrance line trying to thank all the workers and bunching up and blocking the way. It was the worst. But got my shot!

    second edit: I was given an extra stop for weakened immune system (due to meds), and the guy was like 'well........ you should still get it obviously, but like, I guess it wont be as effective? go ahead and head over and get it'. very reassuring.

    Thats not how a weakened immune system works! Vaccines are frequently effective in those with weakened immune systems, because weakened immune system usually means "slow to adapt to new pathogens, and not capable of a highly robust response to one which is present in high numbers". Vaccines give your body the ability to inspect and adapt to the pathogen, and then immune memory allows you to reproduce antibodies swiftly and control t cells effectively so that the infection does not have a chance to spread widely.

    And seriously, old people and their refusal to understand that this is not the time for thanking people!

    Edit - yes there are many types of weakened immune system. And clearly in some ways vaccines don't work. But in most of them, vaccines are highly beneficial.

    tbloxham on
    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Registered User regular
    Y'all remember I said I was going to get my remaining family members added to the vaccine cancellation list on the 21st? My mom got called up this morning and asked if she could come in on short notice. She's now had her first dose, less than 48 hours after I gave the pharmacy her number! I'm downright giddy about this!

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Do you use this pharmacy regularly for prescriptions and stuff? Like, is this somehow associated with your healthcare provider or did you just call your local RiteAid?

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Registered User regular
    edited January 24
    This is the pharmacy I and my mother regularly use, but my dad and brother are strangers to them. I have considered that they might turn away randos calling in about a cancellation list, but I don't really know. It seemed worth a shot (heh) to share on here and facebook.

    E:I hope they're not being selective about the list. When I talked to them on the 21st, the tech warned me that "it will probably be a while" since they'll be at the bottom of the list and deprioritized with regards to over-65s. I asked how long the list was and it was only 11 people. I seriously doubt they actually got through all 11 people on the cancellation list in less than two days. More likely, most of the folk they call just can't come in on short notice. I'm simultaneously really glad my mom got the shot and kind of worried that it implies they're having to discard a lot of doses.

    WhiteZinfandel on
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    This is the pharmacy I and my mother regularly use, but my dad and brother are strangers to them. I have considered that they might turn away randos calling in about a cancellation list, but I don't really know. It seemed worth a shot (heh) to share on here and facebook.

    I might give my local place a buzz, but I think California is primarily distributing vaccines by having mysterious women emerge from lakes by night.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    This is the pharmacy I and my mother regularly use, but my dad and brother are strangers to them. I have considered that they might turn away randos calling in about a cancellation list, but I don't really know. It seemed worth a shot (heh) to share on here and facebook.

    I might give my local place a buzz, but I think California is primarily distributing vaccines by having mysterious women emerge from lakes by night.

    You 100% should. Worst thing that happens is you get a "no" and have wasted ten minutes. Best thing that happens is you get vaccinated in a couple days and save them from having to chuck a dose. Man, it would kill me to be the person putting vaccines in the trash at the end of a shift. The idea of that is just fucking offensive to me after the last ~11 months.

    TetraNitroCubaneGnome-InterruptusDark Raven XCommander Zoom
  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    There's a big clinic going on tomorrow at the fairgrounds here, through Tuesday. Buddy of mine got an invite due to his job and his interactions with a lot of high risk groups and is going to ask about end of day extra vaccines and if they have a process about it for us.

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    Elvenshae
  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    edited January 24
    tbloxham wrote: »
    This is the pharmacy I and my mother regularly use, but my dad and brother are strangers to them. I have considered that they might turn away randos calling in about a cancellation list, but I don't really know. It seemed worth a shot (heh) to share on here and facebook.

    I might give my local place a buzz, but I think California is primarily distributing vaccines by having mysterious women emerge from lakes by night.

    Strange women lying in ponds distributing vaccines is no basis for a system of immunization!

    TetraNitroCubane on
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  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular


    Another 2500+ drop is US hospitalizations just from today. This has to be vaccines showing their first effect, imo. LTCF residents that got their vaccinations in late December should be mostly protected by now, and that population makes up a large percentage of our hospitalizations.

    We're essentially back to pre-Christmas levels and dropping fast. If (if if if, no promises) it continued to drop at this rate, we'd reach the lowest hospital rates since the beginning of the pandemic by the end of February.

    Vaccinations are also increasing in pace. The bloomberg tracker (https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/) crossed 1 million doses/day for the first time today, and that's with a federal holiday during the last week.

    JragghenMegafrostOrca
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    This is the pharmacy I and my mother regularly use, but my dad and brother are strangers to them. I have considered that they might turn away randos calling in about a cancellation list, but I don't really know. It seemed worth a shot (heh) to share on here and facebook.

    I might give my local place a buzz, but I think California is primarily distributing vaccines by having mysterious women emerge from lakes by night.

    You 100% should. Worst thing that happens is you get a "no" and have wasted ten minutes. Best thing that happens is you get vaccinated in a couple days and save them from having to chuck a dose. Man, it would kill me to be the person putting vaccines in the trash at the end of a shift. The idea of that is just fucking offensive to me after the last ~11 months.

    I went to ask but they had these giant signs about how they're following CA and CDC rules and only people on list 1A and all that shit and I just didn't want to be that guy :/

  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Inkstain82 wrote: »


    Another 2500+ drop is US hospitalizations just from today. This has to be vaccines showing their first effect, imo. LTCF residents that got their vaccinations in late December should be mostly protected by now, and that population makes up a large percentage of our hospitalizations.

    We're essentially back to pre-Christmas levels and dropping fast. If (if if if, no promises) it continued to drop at this rate, we'd reach the lowest hospital rates since the beginning of the pandemic by the end of February.

    Vaccinations are also increasing in pace. The bloomberg tracker (https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/) crossed 1 million doses/day for the first time today, and that's with a federal holiday during the last week.

    Crossing my fingers, but it sounds like we may have made it past the worst. We've got a long way to go to hit eradication, but it's finally looking possible before we manage to infect everyone first. We may even manage to avoid breaking a million deaths, which wasn't looking likely even 2 months ago.

    Here's hoping we can continue this downward trend.

    Jragghen
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    https://www.michigandaily.com/section/sports/michigan-sports-postponed-again

    The UK strain is present in the Michigan athletic department. And they're suspending everything for two weeks reports the school newspaper.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
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  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    This is the pharmacy I and my mother regularly use, but my dad and brother are strangers to them. I have considered that they might turn away randos calling in about a cancellation list, but I don't really know. It seemed worth a shot (heh) to share on here and facebook.

    I might give my local place a buzz, but I think California is primarily distributing vaccines by having mysterious women emerge from lakes by night.

    If it's good enough for a system of government....

    If a movement doesn't have someone that can sit down opposite those in a position of power and strike a deal, how can that movement achieve success?
    ForarGilgaron
  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    we've got a possible case of community spread up in Northland NZ.

    Woman who flew in from London, did the full 14 day isolation, tested negative twice during isolation. Left Isolation and went travelling.

    Health Ministry is treating it as if it's the new UK Variant and we're now all on nervous alert, waiting to see what happens.

    as of right now they have identified the woman and 4 Close Contacts.


    and yes, i know it's crazy to feel anxious about only 5 possible cases but....

    anxiety

    thatassemblyguywebguy20JaysonFourAntoshka
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    This is the pharmacy I and my mother regularly use, but my dad and brother are strangers to them. I have considered that they might turn away randos calling in about a cancellation list, but I don't really know. It seemed worth a shot (heh) to share on here and facebook.

    I might give my local place a buzz, but I think California is primarily distributing vaccines by having mysterious women emerge from lakes by night.

    You 100% should. Worst thing that happens is you get a "no" and have wasted ten minutes. Best thing that happens is you get vaccinated in a couple days and save them from having to chuck a dose. Man, it would kill me to be the person putting vaccines in the trash at the end of a shift. The idea of that is just fucking offensive to me after the last ~11 months.

    I went to ask but they had these giant signs about how they're following CA and CDC rules and only people on list 1A and all that shit and I just didn't want to be that guy :/

    Thank goodness that our precious rules will make sure that vaccines are thrown in the trash before they are given to willing volunteers who can come in at inconvenient hours!

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • thatassemblyguythatassemblyguy Technical Debt Janitor he/himRegistered User regular
    we've got a possible case of community spread up in Northland NZ.

    Woman who flew in from London, did the full 14 day isolation, tested negative twice during isolation. Left Isolation and went travelling.

    Health Ministry is treating it as if it's the new UK Variant and we're now all on nervous alert, waiting to see what happens.

    as of right now they have identified the woman and 4 Close Contacts.


    and yes, i know it's crazy to feel anxious about only 5 possible cases but....

    anxiety

    :bro: ahava - I hope they're able to arrest any community spread quickly and get the country vaccinated before more pop-ups like this.

    JragghenCommander ZoomlonelyahavaSkeithJaysonFourGnome-InterruptusLabelFencingsaxboogedybooQanamilshrykeElvenshae
This discussion has been closed.