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The General [Coronavirus] Discussion Thread: Vaccines!

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Posts

  • FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    Crazy that 14 days wasn't enough. The virus can incubate longer than that?

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Crazy that 14 days wasn't enough. The virus can incubate longer than that?

    Is the person 100% on their own during quarantine? If not, the possibility exists to get infected during quarantine..

  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Crazy that 14 days wasn't enough. The virus can incubate longer than that?

    Possibly struck by lightning twice with 2 false negatives.

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  • rndmherorndmhero Registered User regular
    edited January 24
    tbloxham wrote: »
    I don't think the weekend will slow down, my area is holding 2 12 hour long clincs to vax 8k people today and tomorrow.

    (I'm about to be on my way to my appointment for my first shot!)

    edit: man it was weird seeing so many people. it was kind of haphazardly set up. as I was socially distancing walking in, like 4 old people were walking back through the entrance line trying to thank all the workers and bunching up and blocking the way. It was the worst. But got my shot!

    second edit: I was given an extra stop for weakened immune system (due to meds), and the guy was like 'well........ you should still get it obviously, but like, I guess it wont be as effective? go ahead and head over and get it'. very reassuring.

    Thats not how a weakened immune system works! Vaccines are frequently effective in those with weakened immune systems, because weakened immune system usually means "slow to adapt to new pathogens, and not capable of a highly robust response to one which is present in high numbers". Vaccines give your body the ability to inspect and adapt to the pathogen, and then immune memory allows you to reproduce antibodies swiftly and control t cells effectively so that the infection does not have a chance to spread widely.

    And seriously, old people and their refusal to understand that this is not the time for thanking people!

    Edit - yes there are many types of weakened immune system. And clearly in some ways vaccines don't work. But in most of them, vaccines are highly beneficial.

    Fucking christ.

    Stop.

    Posting.

    Medical.

    Advice.

    Seriously, stop. Qualitative and quantitative immunodeficiencies can wildly impact the efficacy of certain vaccines. Some don't matter at all. Some work, but with reduced efficacy. Some cannot mount an immune response whatsoever. Some have to be repeated after the immunocompromised state has resolved. Some can be dangerous, even life threatening. I've personally seen profoundly immunocompromised children admitted to the ICU for receiving vaccines that should not have been given.

    Should the above poster have gotten the covid vaccine? Probably. Maybe. Maybe if it's in question, they should talk to their fucking doctor that's managing their immunocompromised condition instead of armchair quarterbacking shit from a web comic forum that has real-world implications.

    rndmhero on
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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Fireflash wrote: »
    Crazy that 14 days wasn't enough. The virus can incubate longer than that?

    Possibly struck by lightning twice with 2 false negatives.

    Or a pseudo false positive caused by RNA fragment shedding? Infected earlier, possibly didn't even know, cleared the infection. No symptoms. Tests come back negative because shedding is kinda random, then, later she catches something else, gets tested and is now shedding RNA fragments.

    Or, infected on the plane, first test is too soon, second test is unlucky. Though, you should be able to hope in that situation that they would no longer be very infectious.

    Kinda surpised from the perspective of New Zealand that it isn't 2 weeks in managed quarantine followed by 2 weeks home quarantine.

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  • WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    This is the pharmacy I and my mother regularly use, but my dad and brother are strangers to them. I have considered that they might turn away randos calling in about a cancellation list, but I don't really know. It seemed worth a shot (heh) to share on here and facebook.

    I might give my local place a buzz, but I think California is primarily distributing vaccines by having mysterious women emerge from lakes by night.

    You 100% should. Worst thing that happens is you get a "no" and have wasted ten minutes. Best thing that happens is you get vaccinated in a couple days and save them from having to chuck a dose. Man, it would kill me to be the person putting vaccines in the trash at the end of a shift. The idea of that is just fucking offensive to me after the last ~11 months.

    I went to ask but they had these giant signs about how they're following CA and CDC rules and only people on list 1A and all that shit and I just didn't want to be that guy :/

    @Jragghen See the California Department of Public Health's guidance about vaccine prioritization at this link. (also somebody make sure I'm not missing some more up to date information)

    The relevant sections are Recommendation B: Subprioritization During Phase 1a (second bullet point) and Recommendation C2 (under the second bullet point).

    What they say is that during phase 1a (where we're at) "After intensive and appropriate efforts to reach the groups prioritized at that moment, health departments and facilities may offer vaccine promptly to persons in lower priority groups when... Doses are about to expire according to labeling instructions."

    You wouldn't be "that guy" to ask to get on the waitlist in case they have a cancellation and need somebody, anybody on short notice. This isn't shady or special treatment or anything. It's in the recommendations. You'd be doing them a favor, if anything. Taking a dose that was otherwise headed to the trash in a few days rather than letting it go to waste and having to get another at a later date would be less costly in materials, in terms of pandemic spread, and in terms of scheduling effort on their end. You don't even have to go in. Just ring them up. Worst thing that happens is they say no.

    tbloxhamJragghenGnome-Interruptus
  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    they're still not sure of the source.

    Working theory is that she got infected while in the isolation hotel, possibly by a member of staff.

    More details here
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/435090/covid-19-latest-community-case-travelled-across-northland

  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    they're still not sure of the source.

    Working theory is that she got infected while in the isolation hotel, possibly by a member of staff.

    More details here
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/435090/covid-19-latest-community-case-travelled-across-northland

    Thats possibly even more concerning than 6 sigma outlier incubation period, because it would mean that your isolation hotel staff had bad procedures, and bad procedures might have failed on previous occasions with you not knowing about it.

    Still, I guess you can also have 6 sigma outlier bad day for the isolation hotel staff. This would be a good time for some viral sequencing as it would actually teach us something clear. See if someone else in the isolation hotel had the 'parent' virus.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    they're still not sure of the source.

    Working theory is that she got infected while in the isolation hotel, possibly by a member of staff.

    More details here
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/435090/covid-19-latest-community-case-travelled-across-northland

    Thats possibly even more concerning than 6 sigma outlier incubation period, because it would mean that your isolation hotel staff had bad procedures, and bad procedures might have failed on previous occasions with you not knowing about it.

    Still, I guess you can also have 6 sigma outlier bad day for the isolation hotel staff. This would be a good time for some viral sequencing as it would actually teach us something clear. See if someone else in the isolation hotel had the 'parent' virus.

    Wait, this is in the article...

    " Bloomfield said health authorities were investigating the positive test result. She had travelled in Spain and the Netherlands for about four months late last year with family members, some of whom later tested positive for Covid-19. "

    She just like, went on a virus tour of Europe and then popped back to New Zealand?

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    People all over the world are infected despite isolation protocols, frequently in hospitals and similar.

    This is a human endeavor, and nobody is 100% perfect 100% of the time with 100% perfectly produced materials.

    Maybe it was a pair of false negatives. Maybe it was an infection at the hotel. Maybe something else. NZ is actually taking this seriously, so I have confidence they'll figure out where things went wrong after containing this outbreak and we'll find out then.

    We've got bigger problems here in the US, so frankly I will be spending zero time worrying about NZ. They actually have their shit under control, and periodic quarantine failures are irritating but inevitable short of sealing the borders completely.

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  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Orca wrote: »

    We've got bigger problems here in the US, so frankly I will be spending zero time worrying about NZ. They actually have their shit under control, and periodic quarantine failures are irritating but inevitable short of sealing the borders completely.

    Yeah and I knew I shouldn't have brought it up because it is such small things in the scheme of things.

    But

    Anxiety.

  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    edited January 24
    Orca wrote: »

    We've got bigger problems here in the US, so frankly I will be spending zero time worrying about NZ. They actually have their shit under control, and periodic quarantine failures are irritating but inevitable short of sealing the borders completely.

    Yeah and I knew I shouldn't have brought it up because it is such small things in the scheme of things.

    But

    Anxiety.

    Nice thing is the problem is small enough it can actually be traced back and a root cause analysis done about it and the rest of the world can learn. Also, when I say small enough, I mean in the sense that there are few enough variables we might actually be able to figure it out.

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »

    We've got bigger problems here in the US, so frankly I will be spending zero time worrying about NZ. They actually have their shit under control, and periodic quarantine failures are irritating but inevitable short of sealing the borders completely.

    Yeah and I knew I shouldn't have brought it up because it is such small things in the scheme of things.

    But

    Anxiety.

    Well, you have a lot of negative examples worldwide so it's not like the anxiety is unwarranted!

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    edited January 24
    Orca wrote: »

    We've got bigger problems here in the US, so frankly I will be spending zero time worrying about NZ. They actually have their shit under control, and periodic quarantine failures are irritating but inevitable short of sealing the borders completely.

    Yeah and I knew I shouldn't have brought it up because it is such small things in the scheme of things.

    But

    Anxiety.

    Its 100% and perfectly reasonable to worry about 1 infection when you have zero infections. In the US, 1 infection doesn't mean much of anything other than to the person it happens to. In a country like NZ, your grand achievement as a nation (safety from disease while also being free to behave normally) depends on meeting this challenge. And others are right, at this stage, containing a single known infection is totally possible, but that doesn't mean its unreasonable to be sad about it.

    New Zealanders have done well, but, that doesn't mean they are miracle workers. You've had an element of good luck to back up your good choices.

    edit - It's a delta risk thing. When you have zero cases, your risk is zero. When you have 1 case, you now have the risk that you will end up right where we are here in the US. You shouldn't. You have multiple layers of protection between you and that, but, its completely reasonable to feel anxiety.

    tbloxham on
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  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Geth, kick @tbloxham
    tbloxham wrote: »
    I don't think the weekend will slow down, my area is holding 2 12 hour long clincs to vax 8k people today and tomorrow.

    (I'm about to be on my way to my appointment for my first shot!)

    edit: man it was weird seeing so many people. it was kind of haphazardly set up. as I was socially distancing walking in, like 4 old people were walking back through the entrance line trying to thank all the workers and bunching up and blocking the way. It was the worst. But got my shot!

    second edit: I was given an extra stop for weakened immune system (due to meds), and the guy was like 'well........ you should still get it obviously, but like, I guess it wont be as effective? go ahead and head over and get it'. very reassuring.

    Thats not how a weakened immune system works! Vaccines are frequently effective in those with weakened immune systems, because weakened immune system usually means "slow to adapt to new pathogens, and not capable of a highly robust response to one which is present in high numbers". Vaccines give your body the ability to inspect and adapt to the pathogen, and then immune memory allows you to reproduce antibodies swiftly and control t cells effectively so that the infection does not have a chance to spread widely.

    And seriously, old people and their refusal to understand that this is not the time for thanking people!

    Edit - yes there are many types of weakened immune system. And clearly in some ways vaccines don't work. But in most of them, vaccines are highly beneficial.

    Noooooooo you cannot do this, this can get someone killed. You can't post in these anymore, sorry.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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  • GethGeth Legion Perseus VeilRegistered User, Moderator, Penny Arcade Staff, Vanilla Staff vanilla
    Affirmative ceres. @tbloxham banned from this thread.

  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    And here I was wondering if when making this post the other day about not taking in everything presented in the media so credulously even when they're completely misinterpreting scientific documents, if tbloxham had had the introspection to understand he was describing his own behavior in this thread and was having a come-to-God moment.

    Obviously, and unfortunately, he had not.

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  • StarZapperStarZapper Vermont, Bizzaro world.Registered User regular
    they're still not sure of the source.

    Working theory is that she got infected while in the isolation hotel, possibly by a member of staff.

    More details here
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/435090/covid-19-latest-community-case-travelled-across-northland

    I believe there have been some outliers whose incubation time has been more than 2 weeks? Like the whole 14 day quarantine thing is because 99.9% of people will present in that time frame, but there's always that 1/1000 case or whatever.

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  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    Wife got pretty sick a few days ago. Went and got a COVID test. Just got the results, thankfully came back negative.

    I gotta say this whole worrying about COVID all the time thing is starting to wear me down.

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  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited January 24
    StarZapper wrote: »
    they're still not sure of the source.

    Working theory is that she got infected while in the isolation hotel, possibly by a member of staff.

    More details here
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/435090/covid-19-latest-community-case-travelled-across-northland

    I believe there have been some outliers whose incubation time has been more than 2 weeks? Like the whole 14 day quarantine thing is because 99.9% of people will present in that time frame, but there's always that 1/1000 case or whatever.

    I think the longest confirmed was just under 4 weeks, but that was due to some immunosuppression treatment in addition to somehow also being asymptomatic. The person still ultimately got symptoms if I remember correctly but made some headlines as how bad it could be if someone could asymptomatically remain contagious for a month. This was fairly early on though, when the best of information was still pretty speculative.

    dispatch.o on
  • EinzelEinzel Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »

    We've got bigger problems here in the US, so frankly I will be spending zero time worrying about NZ. They actually have their shit under control, and periodic quarantine failures are irritating but inevitable short of sealing the borders completely.

    Yeah and I knew I shouldn't have brought it up because it is such small things in the scheme of things.

    But

    Anxiety.

    Don't worry about it. Personally I find the news from NZ inspiring in that at least one country has their crap together.

    Like, you post about the one case die to anxiety, and that's fine, but for me, and maybe others, it almost felt like a sigh of relief. I think, "wow NZ only recently got one case with a few possible transmissions! How amazing that must be!" And it relieves me in a reverse schadenfreude way.

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  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Ha, my work is now "lol, Q3 maybe?" For back in the office (voluntary). That'll be 1.5 years working remotely for us.

  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    And here I was wondering if when making this post the other day about not taking in everything presented in the media so credulously even when they're completely misinterpreting scientific documents, if tbloxham had had the introspection to understand he was describing his own behavior in this thread and was having a come-to-God moment.

    Obviously, and unfortunately, he had not.

    Pretty crappy to do this with someone who can't post in this thread anymore.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    what's this I'm hearing about people suggesting we wear two masks now?

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    what's this I'm hearing about people suggesting we wear two masks now?

    I think the idea is you wear a plain KN95 mask underneath a cloth mask for looks/covering gaps.

  • dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited January 24
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    what's this I'm hearing about people suggesting we wear two masks now?

    We wear a normal mask over an N95 at work. It lets one N95 last a day instead of one interaction - though in the before COVID times, it was supposed to be removed on leaving the patient room and thrown away after each time you interact with the patient. With every new trip into that room using a new mask.

    So we change the outer mask if it gets contaminated with fluids or something while hopefully preserving the N95.

    Edit: Also, if your mask has exhalation vents you need to wear one over it that doesn't to prevent droplets.

    dispatch.o on
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