Like the country voted him out, the news announced he was defeated and Joe Biden is taking steps to become president in 2021. You don't need to "pushback" against a toddlers tantrum. When my 4 year old tells me he's eating ice cream I don't have to reason out to him why he can't, I just tell him no.
Some of y'all need to take a break, take a breath and realize the Trump admin has shit lawyers making awful arguments and he lost badly. Other countries, even allies of Trump have congratulated the new president because he was elected new president.
You're taking this far to lightly. As a german, this reads pretty much like the lead up to the third reich, including the "not taking it seriously" part.
I got to agree with preacher here. Trump is not going to kill the us, and even though they're republican appointed judges, they will do what's right by the law and not just back Trump.
I'll gladly be wrong, happily. I'm just telling you from the outside, this looks really, really bad.
Fascists play with humor and expectation like that.
you're right, but there are two important differences in context:
the context of modern (especially social) media and the context of american mythology
in this case it's far more likely that an autocratic attempt winds up with trump ruling over a dwindling number of economically irrelevant states than at the helm of a genocidal world superpower
Have no faith in the GOP to do anything decent (save Romney, god I hate this timeline). They’ll do precisely what they can get away with, and they’ll say they were just kidding and act all hurt when you force them to stop.
Peak traditional masculinity.
Trump and his cronies will simply stay in the White House if not pressured out. Simple as that. Yes, it’s ridiculous, no it’s not legal. You have to think like an idiot, because that’s how these people have to operate so long as they’re tethered to Trump, and some portion of the GOP has decided to stay tethered.
Don’t dismiss a plan because it’s stupid, ask what happens if the stupid plan is followed through on.
You are in unprecedented territory where two people claim presidential authority. Democrats have shown that they are patient, detailed, and slow - the GOP will take advantage of that. Democrats will go to the courts, and Trump would still refuse to step down. The courts will probably rule in their favor, and still there is the question of who will actually physically make them leave.
No Democrat wants to march a president out of the White House, because they actually care about our country. And they’re right to worry about what happens if they do. It’s the government shutdown situation as a more explicit coup. The GOP will risk burning it all down knowing that Democrats care more than they do.
None of this is to say that any of the above will work, only that they will try/are trying. The willingness of the stupid to do truly stupid things is a powerful weapon against professionals who make decisions based on precedent and detailed information, as we’ve seen over and over again during the last four years.
I think they need more support than they have, but I also think they’re actively trying to build additional support, so we have to take them seriously and shut this shit down.
I’m sick of living in a world defined by these fucks, and the necessary paranoia and distrust that it brings.
Re bolded: and yet Biden had already said the secret service can do just that.
Have no faith in the GOP to do anything decent (save Romney, god I hate this timeline). They’ll do precisely what they can get away with, and they’ll say they were just kidding and act all hurt when you force them to stop.
Peak traditional masculinity.
Trump and his cronies will simply stay in the White House if not pressured out. Simple as that. Yes, it’s ridiculous, no it’s not legal. You have to think like an idiot, because that’s how these people have to operate so long as they’re tethered to Trump, and some portion of the GOP has decided to stay tethered.
Don’t dismiss a plan because it’s stupid, ask what happens if the stupid plan is followed through on.
You are in unprecedented territory where two people claim presidential authority. Democrats have shown that they are patient, detailed, and slow - the GOP will take advantage of that. Democrats will go to the courts, and Trump would still refuse to step down. The courts will probably rule in their favor, and still there is the question of who will actually physically make them leave.
No Democrat wants to march a president out of the White House, because they actually care about our country. And they’re right to worry about what happens if they do. It’s the government shutdown situation as a more explicit coup. The GOP will risk burning it all down knowing that Democrats care more than they do.
None of this is to say that any of the above will work, only that they will try/are trying. The willingness of the stupid to do truly stupid things is a powerful weapon against professionals who make decisions based on precedent and detailed information, as we’ve seen over and over again during the last four years.
I think they need more support than they have, but I also think they’re actively trying to build additional support, so we have to take them seriously and shut this shit down.
I’m sick of living in a world defined by these fucks, and the necessary paranoia and distrust that it brings.
Re bolded: and yet Biden had already said the secret service can do just that.
Wanting to do something, and being willing to do something if your hand is forced are two very different things.
Have no faith in the GOP to do anything decent (save Romney, god I hate this timeline). They’ll do precisely what they can get away with, and they’ll say they were just kidding and act all hurt when you force them to stop.
Peak traditional masculinity.
Trump and his cronies will simply stay in the White House if not pressured out. Simple as that. Yes, it’s ridiculous, no it’s not legal. You have to think like an idiot, because that’s how these people have to operate so long as they’re tethered to Trump, and some portion of the GOP has decided to stay tethered.
Don’t dismiss a plan because it’s stupid, ask what happens if the stupid plan is followed through on.
You are in unprecedented territory where two people claim presidential authority. Democrats have shown that they are patient, detailed, and slow - the GOP will take advantage of that. Democrats will go to the courts, and Trump would still refuse to step down. The courts will probably rule in their favor, and still there is the question of who will actually physically make them leave.
No Democrat wants to march a president out of the White House, because they actually care about our country. And they’re right to worry about what happens if they do. It’s the government shutdown situation as a more explicit coup. The GOP will risk burning it all down knowing that Democrats care more than they do.
None of this is to say that any of the above will work, only that they will try/are trying. The willingness of the stupid to do truly stupid things is a powerful weapon against professionals who make decisions based on precedent and detailed information, as we’ve seen over and over again during the last four years.
I think Trump and co. need more support than they have, but I also think they’re actively trying to build additional support, so we have to take them seriously and shut this shit down.
I’m sick of living in a world defined by these fucks, and the necessary paranoia and distrust that it brings.
No, we aren't. The Constitution is clear on what happens at 12:01pm on January 20th.
Nobody is doubting that they are fascists. What we're doubting is that they are successful fascists--at least this time around. If they had the competence to pull this off they would never have allowed Biden to win the election and damage their legitimacy. They would not be losing every court case. Every piece of evidence suggests that they don't have the levers of power necessary to pull off a coup because they didn't put them in place. Mike Pompeo doesn't decide whether Biden takes the presidency. Mitch McConnell doesn't either. There is a process and a system of laws and so far it is being followed.
The Trump White House is exactly what it appears to be. A bunch of incompetent wannabe authoritarians with no plan and no ability to execute on the coup they clearly wish they could commit.
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
Have no faith in the GOP to do anything decent (save Romney, god I hate this timeline). They’ll do precisely what they can get away with, and they’ll say they were just kidding and act all hurt when you force them to stop.
Peak traditional masculinity.
Trump and his cronies will simply stay in the White House if not pressured out. Simple as that. Yes, it’s ridiculous, no it’s not legal. You have to think like an idiot, because that’s how these people have to operate so long as they’re tethered to Trump, and some portion of the GOP has decided to stay tethered.
Don’t dismiss a plan because it’s stupid, ask what happens if the stupid plan is followed through on.
You are in unprecedented territory where two people claim presidential authority. Democrats have shown that they are patient, detailed, and slow - the GOP will take advantage of that. Democrats will go to the courts, and Trump would still refuse to step down. The courts will probably rule in their favor, and still there is the question of who will actually physically make them leave.
No Democrat wants to march a president out of the White House, because they actually care about our country. And they’re right to worry about what happens if they do. It’s the government shutdown situation as a more explicit coup. The GOP will risk burning it all down knowing that Democrats care more than they do.
None of this is to say that any of the above will work, only that they will try/are trying. The willingness of the stupid to do truly stupid things is a powerful weapon against professionals who make decisions based on precedent and detailed information, as we’ve seen over and over again during the last four years.
I think they need more support than they have, but I also think they’re actively trying to build additional support, so we have to take them seriously and shut this shit down.
I’m sick of living in a world defined by these fucks, and the necessary paranoia and distrust that it brings.
Re bolded: and yet Biden had already said the secret service can do just that.
Wanting to do something, and being willing to do something if your hand is forced are two very different things.
This is the strength of the argument for a successful coup? Biden blinks at calling Trump's bluff?
Quick somebody alert the media and book an empty lot next to the restaurant supply depot!
Have no faith in the GOP to do anything decent (save Romney, god I hate this timeline). They’ll do precisely what they can get away with, and they’ll say they were just kidding and act all hurt when you force them to stop.
Peak traditional masculinity.
Trump and his cronies will simply stay in the White House if not pressured out. Simple as that. Yes, it’s ridiculous, no it’s not legal. You have to think like an idiot, because that’s how these people have to operate so long as they’re tethered to Trump, and some portion of the GOP has decided to stay tethered.
Don’t dismiss a plan because it’s stupid, ask what happens if the stupid plan is followed through on.
You are in unprecedented territory where two people claim presidential authority. Democrats have shown that they are patient, detailed, and slow - the GOP will take advantage of that. Democrats will go to the courts, and Trump would still refuse to step down. The courts will probably rule in their favor, and still there is the question of who will actually physically make them leave.
No Democrat wants to march a president out of the White House, because they actually care about our country. And they’re right to worry about what happens if they do. It’s the government shutdown situation as a more explicit coup. The GOP will risk burning it all down knowing that Democrats care more than they do.
None of this is to say that any of the above will work, only that they will try/are trying. The willingness of the stupid to do truly stupid things is a powerful weapon against professionals who make decisions based on precedent and detailed information, as we’ve seen over and over again during the last four years.
I think they need more support than they have, but I also think they’re actively trying to build additional support, so we have to take them seriously and shut this shit down.
I’m sick of living in a world defined by these fucks, and the necessary paranoia and distrust that it brings.
Re bolded: and yet Biden had already said the secret service can do just that.
Wanting to do something, and being willing to do something if your hand is forced are two very different things.
I’m aware, and I also know that it’s much easier to say that in the afterglow of his win and months out from having to do so. You’re talking about doing something truly unprecedented, and that’s going to freak out a lot of people, especially if they’ve been primed to freak out over it for two months.
Again, I’m not saying any of this will work, but rather that the only way to guarantee it doesn’t work is to take it seriously. Shut it down now, to whatever extent we possibly can, because doing so later will be much harder, or at least much more dangerous.
No Democrat wants to march a president out of the White House, because they actually care about our country. And they’re right to worry about what happens if they do. It’s the government shutdown situation as a more explicit coup. The GOP will risk burning it all down knowing that Democrats care more than they do.
I'm pretty sure most Democrats would watch a video of Trump being forcibly removed by the Secret Service with a big fat smile on their face.
Biden doesn't have to enter the White House or get Trump out to become President. He's President & Commander in Chief after the inauguration. You don't want to get caught trespassing in his house.
I doubt Trump's handlers are stupid enough to let Trump attempt something like that. He'll do other shitty things like hold a Trump rally somewhere on inauguration day, but not that.
Have no faith in the GOP to do anything decent (save Romney, god I hate this timeline). They’ll do precisely what they can get away with, and they’ll say they were just kidding and act all hurt when you force them to stop.
Peak traditional masculinity.
Trump and his cronies will simply stay in the White House if not pressured out. Simple as that. Yes, it’s ridiculous, no it’s not legal. You have to think like an idiot, because that’s how these people have to operate so long as they’re tethered to Trump, and some portion of the GOP has decided to stay tethered.
Don’t dismiss a plan because it’s stupid, ask what happens if the stupid plan is followed through on.
You are in unprecedented territory where two people claim presidential authority. Democrats have shown that they are patient, detailed, and slow - the GOP will take advantage of that. Democrats will go to the courts, and Trump would still refuse to step down. The courts will probably rule in their favor, and still there is the question of who will actually physically make them leave.
No Democrat wants to march a president out of the White House, because they actually care about our country. And they’re right to worry about what happens if they do. It’s the government shutdown situation as a more explicit coup. The GOP will risk burning it all down knowing that Democrats care more than they do.
None of this is to say that any of the above will work, only that they will try/are trying. The willingness of the stupid to do truly stupid things is a powerful weapon against professionals who make decisions based on precedent and detailed information, as we’ve seen over and over again during the last four years.
I think they need more support than they have, but I also think they’re actively trying to build additional support, so we have to take them seriously and shut this shit down.
I’m sick of living in a world defined by these fucks, and the necessary paranoia and distrust that it brings.
Re bolded: and yet Biden had already said the secret service can do just that.
Wanting to do something, and being willing to do something if your hand is forced are two very different things.
This is the strength of the argument for a successful coup?
Quick somebody alert the media and book an empty lot next to the restaurant supply warehouse!
Trump has now almost 3 months time to rile up his insane followers, and muddy the waters with his corrupt "administration"
Do you think insane cult followers get less dangerous when they feel threatened?
Have no faith in the GOP to do anything decent (save Romney, god I hate this timeline). They’ll do precisely what they can get away with, and they’ll say they were just kidding and act all hurt when you force them to stop.
Peak traditional masculinity.
Trump and his cronies will simply stay in the White House if not pressured out. Simple as that. Yes, it’s ridiculous, no it’s not legal. You have to think like an idiot, because that’s how these people have to operate so long as they’re tethered to Trump, and some portion of the GOP has decided to stay tethered.
Don’t dismiss a plan because it’s stupid, ask what happens if the stupid plan is followed through on.
You are in unprecedented territory where two people claim presidential authority. Democrats have shown that they are patient, detailed, and slow - the GOP will take advantage of that. Democrats will go to the courts, and Trump would still refuse to step down. The courts will probably rule in their favor, and still there is the question of who will actually physically make them leave.
No Democrat wants to march a president out of the White House, because they actually care about our country. And they’re right to worry about what happens if they do. It’s the government shutdown situation as a more explicit coup. The GOP will risk burning it all down knowing that Democrats care more than they do.
None of this is to say that any of the above will work, only that they will try/are trying. The willingness of the stupid to do truly stupid things is a powerful weapon against professionals who make decisions based on precedent and detailed information, as we’ve seen over and over again during the last four years.
I think they need more support than they have, but I also think they’re actively trying to build additional support, so we have to take them seriously and shut this shit down.
I’m sick of living in a world defined by these fucks, and the necessary paranoia and distrust that it brings.
Re bolded: and yet Biden had already said the secret service can do just that.
Wanting to do something, and being willing to do something if your hand is forced are two very different things.
This is the strength of the argument for a successful coup?
Quick somebody alert the media and book an empty lot next to the restaurant supply warehouse!
Trump has now almost 3 months time to rile up his insane followers, and muddy the waters with his corrupt "administration"
Do you think insane cult followers get less dangerous when they feel threatened?
No, I expect there will be an increase in domestic terrorism under the Biden Administration. But it will not somehow prevent the Biden Administration from becoming the Biden Administration.
It's not like he has to show up with a baseball bat and chase him out of the Oval Office.
That's the job of the Secret Service, and will be done entirely without any direct intervention on the part of Biden. It is a massive failing of theirs if, when Biden returns to the White House the evening of 1/20, Trump is still there in any way.
They absolutely will try to negotiate and talk Trump out of there, but at the end of the day if they haul him off like Assange was carried out of the Ecuador Embassy, and charge him with unlawfully remaining in the White House under 18 U.S. Code § 1752 they absolutely will do that.
And honestly, if that happens I'm going to watch with a big smile on my face because fuck Donald Trump. Hopefully Biden issues a pardon for the trespassing just to twist the knife.
I understand all the reasonable and logical arguments here, folks. At what point have any of these people been bound by reason and logic in their actions?
They’re incompetent, short-sighted, and have done a lot of work pushing out people who stand up to them. A kid doesn’t need to be a sharpshooter for me to be on edge when it starts waving a gun around.
The threat isn’t gone because we have the legal right. They don’t care. If enough of them don’t care, then we have nothing.
Again, I don’t think there are enough of them. I’m not as confident that they won’t have enough people if we spend the next two months acting like Trump isn’t still a threat.
OneAngryPossum on
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
Nobody is doubting that they are fascists. What we're doubting is that they are successful fascists--at least this time around. If they had the competence to pull this off they would never have allowed Biden to win the election and damage their legitimacy. They would not be losing every court case. Every piece of evidence suggests that they don't have the levers of power necessary to pull off a coup because they didn't put them in place. Mike Pompeo doesn't decide whether Biden takes the presidency. Mitch McConnell doesn't either. There is a process and a system of laws and so far it is being followed.
The Trump White House is exactly what it appears to be. A bunch of incompetent wannabe authoritarians with no plan and no ability to execute on the coup they clearly wish they could commit.
It’s one of the few times where Trumps narcissism helps us, because he can’t see himself losing so he never took the steps necessary to forcibly keep the office.
I think he’s doing a lot of damage on the way out. But I don’t think he’s going to win, if only because the GOP don’t need him anymore. They will very likely get the senate and they got 6 conservative members of SCOTUS. And they’ll get a good control on the redistricting. He doesn’t have any real use anymore.
Nobody is doubting that they are fascists. What we're doubting is that they are successful fascists--at least this time around. If they had the competence to pull this off they would never have allowed Biden to win the election and damage their legitimacy. They would not be losing every court case. Every piece of evidence suggests that they don't have the levers of power necessary to pull off a coup because they didn't put them in place. Mike Pompeo doesn't decide whether Biden takes the presidency. Mitch McConnell doesn't either. There is a process and a system of laws and so far it is being followed.
The Trump White House is exactly what it appears to be. A bunch of incompetent wannabe authoritarians with no plan and no ability to execute on the coup they clearly wish they could commit.
It’s one of the few times where Trumps narcissism helps us, because he can’t see himself losing so he never took the steps necessary to forcibly keep the office.
I think he’s doing a lot of damage on the way out. But I don’t think he’s going to win, if only because the GOP don’t need him anymore. They will very likely get the senate and they got 6 conservative members of SCOTUS. And they’ll get a good control on the redistricting. He doesn’t have any real use anymore.
He barely knows enough about washing hands, he doesn't know how to incite a coup.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Yes, the transfer of power is not up to Trump or his cronies.
No, we should not let it get that far. There needs to be widespread pushback on statements that Trump is going to be president next year. Pompeo should be pegged with rotten tomatoes for his statement. And then he should go on trial for sedition.
This is America, and democracy is not fucking optional. Any Republican who isn't telling Trump to STFU and GTFO because he lost is complicit in a naked power grab. The fact that it isn't likely to work is not comforting.
Okay, those of you pushing this idea that there will be a successful coup--what do you want us to do about it right now?
Be ready to perform acts of civil disobedience as necessary to stop one? I think all of us are prepared for it.
Be out in the streets right now? There is nothing to actually protest as of yet because so far the legal process is being followed. They're breaking norms, but we'd never do anything else if we protested every time the Trump administration broke an institutional norm.
Feel doomed and stressed as hell for the next two months? Because if that's what you're hoping to accomplish, you're well on your way.
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
What was that Stalin line about bayonets and mush, again...?
There's nothing to take legal action against as of yet. The GSA is being dicks but not yet criminal.
Yeah, if Biden took this to court now he would lose just about as quickly as Trump has been. The GSA is supposed to hand over the keys once their is a definitive call of a winner. And in this case they are being sucks about it and Biden will likely have to wait until the state electors make it official.
It typically doesn’t happen this way, because we have candidates with an ounce of shame who concede and the process moves forward. If they keep refusing after the EC votes, then Biden should take it to court and I would be willing to bet he would.
No Democrat wants to march a president out of the White House, because they actually care about our country. And they’re right to worry about what happens if they do. It’s the government shutdown situation as a more explicit coup. The GOP will risk burning it all down knowing that Democrats care more than they do.
I'm pretty sure most Democrats would watch a video of Trump being forcibly removed by the Secret Service with a big fat smile on their face.
Biden doesn't have to enter the White House or get Trump out to become President. He's President & Commander in Chief after the inauguration. You don't want to get caught trespassing in his house.
I doubt Trump's handlers are stupid enough to let Trump attempt something like that. He'll do other shitty things like hold a Trump rally somewhere on inauguration day, but not that.
As much fun as it would be to watch
it also means that 70 million propagandized followers would be watching their leader get brutalized by the left wing menace. And that would probably be very bad!
I understand all the reasonable and logical arguments here, folks. At what point have any of these people been bound by reason and logic in their actions?
They have been bound by Law. When the Court strikes down whatever latest legal idiocy they have attempted. Which they have done for all of the challenges filed over the election.
For instance, you can go buy a healthcare plan on the ACA today. It's open enrollment. Because the rule of law still exists. Explain to me. In detail. How that is going to suddenly stop in January. And I mean in detail. Tell me the names and GS rank of every Federal employee you are claiming will subvert the Constitution they have sworn to uphold. There are Federal Employees and Contractors in this very thread. Tell me which ones are going to support the coup so we can ask them.
Yes, the transfer of power is not up to Trump or his cronies.
No, we should not let it get that far. There needs to be widespread pushback on statements that Trump is going to be president next year. Pompeo should be pegged with rotten tomatoes for his statement. And then he should go on trial for sedition.
This is America, and democracy is not fucking optional. Any Republican who isn't telling Trump to STFU and GTFO because he lost is complicit in a naked power grab. The fact that it isn't likely to work is not comforting.
I agree with you, but you have to balance taking them seriously because this is serious business with making them look like pathetic jokes because otherwise you are giving 'both sides' legitimacy to the crazy shit they are trying to pull.
In this case, just like our concerns they were going to arrest / indict Joe before the election...or hack / stuff ballot boxes,...or their lawyers were going to descend and put a stop to all the counting before we knew who won...they didn't do the work.
Now it's just pathetic flailing. If they were going to launch a successful coup they wouldn't be shifting loyalists around today and losing court case after court case. They can do a lot of damage between now and January, and they can maybe even hobble Biden a bit, but they aren't going to stay in power.
They just don't have the numbers, planning, or people in key positions. They are fucking lazy and stupid and that is really benefiting us if they were seriously trying to overthrow the government.
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Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
after the electors vote, i expect either the GSA will cave, or a judge will make them cave.
if not, then we can start talking about sedition and coups in a more serious light. what is actually happening here is the gop is playing with fire trying to keep the base angry so they win 2 senate seats. no more, no less. it's pathetic and dangerous, but it's the gop so that's basically their bread and butter.
the ultra wealthy people who run the gop have no interest in a coup, because turns out a really great way to devalue the billions of dollars you have on a server in new york is to destabilize the country such that your money is worthless. when your power is money, you need the us government to be stable to enforce the value of that money. otherwise it's just random pieces of paper and 1s and 0s on a server.
1)The military brass, who uniformed folks are more loyal to than Trump cronies, basically hate his guts. He has been losing the military vote. The military won't back shit.
2)The Secret Service hates him. I know this because I am friends with agents. Trump folks won't give them proper protection. They work 60-80 hours a week. Get treated like trash. And a ton have gotten sick. Never a good idea for a dictator to piss off their personal guards.
3)The Courts have shown no interest in bullshit. Even the most partisan judge who happily said Obamacare was unconstitutional once the mandate was $0 laughed them out of court.
4)The executive has no control over its own election. None. Negative. States control it. States made their call already.
5)The GSA stuff and such is legal but petty and expected. Come the end of this month all the votes are certified. Next month the electors vote.
I can straight up say my friends who work at the SS probably will enjoy dragging Trump out kicking and screaming.
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
My biggest concern until January 20th is whether Trump attempts to order the military to act on his behalf.
And if that happens, the JCoS will issue a statement that the Military Code of Conduct behooves them to disobey illegal orders, and the armed forces will do nothing. *pardon if I got any of the jargon wrong.
Yes, the transfer of power is not up to Trump or his cronies.
No, we should not let it get that far. There needs to be widespread pushback on statements that Trump is going to be president next year. Pompeo should be pegged with rotten tomatoes for his statement. And then he should go on trial for sedition.
This is America, and democracy is not fucking optional. Any Republican who isn't telling Trump to STFU and GTFO because he lost is complicit in a naked power grab. The fact that it isn't likely to work is not comforting.
I have been thinking of Trump as America’s Sulla for a while.
And while I still think come next year, despite all attempts, Biden will be president.
I do not see how the fabric of our democracy is not permanently damaged by what is occurring right now. I don’t see how we ultimately come back from this for future elections.
I think the reason Biden's not raising noise about the GSA is that he doesn't want people to risk their jobs unnecessarily for him. His campaign still has money left, apparently a lot more than Trump's transition team spent, so they're basically set. He's not getting the usual briefings but unlike Trump he's not a stranger to work and can make up time and still hit the ground running.
If he forces the issue or the GSA takes initiative I guarantee the agency gets purged, and in this shambles of a government it's one of the few that hasn't been yet.
My biggest concern until January 20th is whether Trump attempts to order the military to act on his behalf.
As of January 20th he couldn't order shit. No matter if the oath is taken or not. Transfer of power is automatic. The oath is just for show.
The military's oath is to the constitution not the president. They are bound to reject illegal orders. This as a person who works with these people day in and day out I am not worried about. You would have a higher chance of him telling the head of the Joint Chiefs and the Joint Chief beating his ass.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
also, this video doesn't look like he's joking. it looks like he's thinking "yes, I said it, what are you gonna do about it?"
(the hill is an online newspaper)
Mike Pompeo is all of Trump's worst qualities in a slightly more intelligible package. He's every bit as whiny and short-tempered he just doesn't fumble his words when he's bullshitting.
I understand all the reasonable and logical arguments here, folks. At what point have any of these people been bound by reason and logic in their actions?
They have been bound by Law. When the Court strikes down whatever latest legal idiocy they have attempted. Which they have done for all of the challenges filed over the election.
For instance, you can go buy a healthcare plan on the ACA today. It's open enrollment. Because the rule of law still exists. Explain to me. In detail. How that is going to suddenly stop in January. And I mean in detail. Tell me the names and GS rank of every Federal employee you are claiming will subvert the Constitution they have sworn to uphold. There are Federal Employees and Contractors in this very thread. Tell me which ones are going to support the coup.
Have no faith in the GOP to do anything decent (save Romney, god I hate this timeline). They’ll do precisely what they can get away with, and they’ll say they were just kidding and act all hurt when you force them to stop.
Peak traditional masculinity.
Trump and his cronies will simply stay in the White House if not pressured out. Simple as that. Yes, it’s ridiculous, no it’s not legal. You have to think like an idiot, because that’s how these people have to operate so long as they’re tethered to Trump, and some portion of the GOP has decided to stay tethered.
Don’t dismiss a plan because it’s stupid, ask what happens if the stupid plan is followed through on.
You are in unprecedented territory where two people claim presidential authority. Democrats have shown that they are patient, detailed, and slow - the GOP will take advantage of that. Democrats will go to the courts, and Trump would still refuse to step down. The courts will probably rule in their favor, and still there is the question of who will actually physically make them leave.
No Democrat wants to march a president out of the White House, because they actually care about our country. And they’re right to worry about what happens if they do. It’s the government shutdown situation as a more explicit coup. The GOP will risk burning it all down knowing that Democrats care more than they do.
None of this is to say that any of the above will work, only that they will try/are trying. The willingness of the stupid to do truly stupid things is a powerful weapon against professionals who make decisions based on precedent and detailed information, as we’ve seen over and over again during the last four years.
I think they need more support than they have, but I also think they’re actively trying to build additional support, so we have to take them seriously and shut this shit down.
I’m sick of living in a world defined by these fucks, and the necessary paranoia and distrust that it brings.
Re bolded: and yet Biden had already said the secret service can do just that.
Wanting to do something, and being willing to do something if your hand is forced are two very different things.
This is the strength of the argument for a successful coup?
Quick somebody alert the media and book an empty lot next to the restaurant supply warehouse!
Trump has now almost 3 months time to rile up his insane followers, and muddy the waters with his corrupt "administration"
Do you think insane cult followers get less dangerous when they feel threatened?
No, I expect there will be an increase in domestic terrorism under the Biden Administration. But it will not somehow prevent the Biden Administration from becoming the Biden Administration.
If the domestic terrorism takes the shape of a rash of political assassinations that results in republicans, still beholden to trumps cultists, in the line of succession getting the White House are any of those federal employees going to do anything but accept the "peacful" execution of the line of succession in the face of unprecedented assassination?
Like if you'r asking me to catastrophize this for you i can definitely illustrate how this potentially goes down. First and foremost legality is mostly unimportant. Yes legally there's a very clear sequence of events we should see. Unfortunately for a bunch of people, even those in our government, the constitution's a bit like the bible. They don't really know exactly what's in it besides, "what the fuck I say is in it".
This is however some worst possible case stuff and like im fully willing to say it's not super reasonable, as a private citizen, to worry about this type of thing until it is actively happening
No Democrat wants to march a president out of the White House, because they actually care about our country. And they’re right to worry about what happens if they do. It’s the government shutdown situation as a more explicit coup. The GOP will risk burning it all down knowing that Democrats care more than they do.
I'm pretty sure most Democrats would watch a video of Trump being forcibly removed by the Secret Service with a big fat smile on their face.
Biden doesn't have to enter the White House or get Trump out to become President. He's President & Commander in Chief after the inauguration. You don't want to get caught trespassing in his house.
I doubt Trump's handlers are stupid enough to let Trump attempt something like that. He'll do other shitty things like hold a Trump rally somewhere on inauguration day, but not that.
Moreover, the GOP desperately needs to see Trump chastised and humiliated. They don't want to see it, but they really need to see it.
My biggest concern until January 20th is whether Trump attempts to order the military to act on his behalf.
imo it'd probably start with that chekov's gun of the unmarked Bureau of Prisons/DHS goons we saw a couple of months back, he seems to have more sway there
and obviously they would not stand up to actual military action, but it does raise the stakes on this game of chicken even more, which seems like the current MO
not that i think this is likely going to happen or anything! but if it did that'd be my guess how they go about it. Really sloppy writing otherwise.
Yes, the transfer of power is not up to Trump or his cronies.
No, we should not let it get that far. There needs to be widespread pushback on statements that Trump is going to be president next year. Pompeo should be pegged with rotten tomatoes for his statement. And then he should go on trial for sedition.
This is America, and democracy is not fucking optional. Any Republican who isn't telling Trump to STFU and GTFO because he lost is complicit in a naked power grab. The fact that it isn't likely to work is not comforting.
I have been thinking of Trump as America’s Sulla for a while.
And while I still think come next year, despite all attempts, Biden will be president.
I do not see how the fabric of our democracy is not permanently damaged by what is occurring right now. I don’t see how we ultimately come back from this for future elections.
Despite whatever a shitshow these past / next few months are, as long as stuff gets somewhat back to normal in 4-8 years we will all turn out and vote and pretend that everything is back to normal as a country. It's kind of our thing.
We want to pretend this is an abberation, a time when the country went batshit crazy so in a few years we can all look back and go 'yeah, 2020, that was something' and keep on keeping on.
Yes there is a lot of permanent damage, but Trump is going to be gone down the memory hole and you're not going to be able to find anyone but the wingnuttiest of wingnuts who ever supported or agreed with him. Much less the idea that he should have stayed President after the election he obviously lost. (although there are CONCERNS about Hunter Biden Laptop Ballots etc)
Posts
you're right, but there are two important differences in context:
the context of modern (especially social) media and the context of american mythology
in this case it's far more likely that an autocratic attempt winds up with trump ruling over a dwindling number of economically irrelevant states than at the helm of a genocidal world superpower
also, this video doesn't look like he's joking. it looks like he's thinking "yes, I said it, what are you gonna do about it?"
(the hill is an online newspaper)
Re bolded: and yet Biden had already said the secret service can do just that.
Wanting to do something, and being willing to do something if your hand is forced are two very different things.
He will be dragged kicking and screaming.
More than likely he'll head to his summer home away from home and stay there and whine and tweet.
No, we aren't. The Constitution is clear on what happens at 12:01pm on January 20th.
The Trump White House is exactly what it appears to be. A bunch of incompetent wannabe authoritarians with no plan and no ability to execute on the coup they clearly wish they could commit.
This is the strength of the argument for a successful coup? Biden blinks at calling Trump's bluff?
Quick somebody alert the media and book an empty lot next to the restaurant supply depot!
I’m aware, and I also know that it’s much easier to say that in the afterglow of his win and months out from having to do so. You’re talking about doing something truly unprecedented, and that’s going to freak out a lot of people, especially if they’ve been primed to freak out over it for two months.
Again, I’m not saying any of this will work, but rather that the only way to guarantee it doesn’t work is to take it seriously. Shut it down now, to whatever extent we possibly can, because doing so later will be much harder, or at least much more dangerous.
I'm pretty sure most Democrats would watch a video of Trump being forcibly removed by the Secret Service with a big fat smile on their face.
Biden doesn't have to enter the White House or get Trump out to become President. He's President & Commander in Chief after the inauguration. You don't want to get caught trespassing in his house.
I doubt Trump's handlers are stupid enough to let Trump attempt something like that. He'll do other shitty things like hold a Trump rally somewhere on inauguration day, but not that.
Trump has now almost 3 months time to rile up his insane followers, and muddy the waters with his corrupt "administration"
Do you think insane cult followers get less dangerous when they feel threatened?
What was that Stalin line about bayonets and mush, again...?
I can has cheezburger, yes?
your faith in the GOP actually endangers your daughter.
@Preacher, I would refrain from trying to teach a German about fascism. Maybe listen to the people who have been through this, eh?
Bye
No, I expect there will be an increase in domestic terrorism under the Biden Administration. But it will not somehow prevent the Biden Administration from becoming the Biden Administration.
There's nothing to take legal action against as of yet. The GSA is being dicks but not yet criminal.
It's not like he has to show up with a baseball bat and chase him out of the Oval Office.
That's the job of the Secret Service, and will be done entirely without any direct intervention on the part of Biden. It is a massive failing of theirs if, when Biden returns to the White House the evening of 1/20, Trump is still there in any way.
They absolutely will try to negotiate and talk Trump out of there, but at the end of the day if they haul him off like Assange was carried out of the Ecuador Embassy, and charge him with unlawfully remaining in the White House under 18 U.S. Code § 1752 they absolutely will do that.
And honestly, if that happens I'm going to watch with a big smile on my face because fuck Donald Trump. Hopefully Biden issues a pardon for the trespassing just to twist the knife.
They’re incompetent, short-sighted, and have done a lot of work pushing out people who stand up to them. A kid doesn’t need to be a sharpshooter for me to be on edge when it starts waving a gun around.
The threat isn’t gone because we have the legal right. They don’t care. If enough of them don’t care, then we have nothing.
Again, I don’t think there are enough of them. I’m not as confident that they won’t have enough people if we spend the next two months acting like Trump isn’t still a threat.
I think he’s doing a lot of damage on the way out. But I don’t think he’s going to win, if only because the GOP don’t need him anymore. They will very likely get the senate and they got 6 conservative members of SCOTUS. And they’ll get a good control on the redistricting. He doesn’t have any real use anymore.
He barely knows enough about washing hands, he doesn't know how to incite a coup.
Yes, the transfer of power is not up to Trump or his cronies.
No, we should not let it get that far. There needs to be widespread pushback on statements that Trump is going to be president next year. Pompeo should be pegged with rotten tomatoes for his statement. And then he should go on trial for sedition.
This is America, and democracy is not fucking optional. Any Republican who isn't telling Trump to STFU and GTFO because he lost is complicit in a naked power grab. The fact that it isn't likely to work is not comforting.
Be ready to perform acts of civil disobedience as necessary to stop one? I think all of us are prepared for it.
Be out in the streets right now? There is nothing to actually protest as of yet because so far the legal process is being followed. They're breaking norms, but we'd never do anything else if we protested every time the Trump administration broke an institutional norm.
Feel doomed and stressed as hell for the next two months? Because if that's what you're hoping to accomplish, you're well on your way.
Yeah, if Biden took this to court now he would lose just about as quickly as Trump has been. The GSA is supposed to hand over the keys once their is a definitive call of a winner. And in this case they are being sucks about it and Biden will likely have to wait until the state electors make it official.
It typically doesn’t happen this way, because we have candidates with an ounce of shame who concede and the process moves forward. If they keep refusing after the EC votes, then Biden should take it to court and I would be willing to bet he would.
As much fun as it would be to watch
it also means that 70 million propagandized followers would be watching their leader get brutalized by the left wing menace. And that would probably be very bad!
They have been bound by Law. When the Court strikes down whatever latest legal idiocy they have attempted. Which they have done for all of the challenges filed over the election.
For instance, you can go buy a healthcare plan on the ACA today. It's open enrollment. Because the rule of law still exists. Explain to me. In detail. How that is going to suddenly stop in January. And I mean in detail. Tell me the names and GS rank of every Federal employee you are claiming will subvert the Constitution they have sworn to uphold. There are Federal Employees and Contractors in this very thread. Tell me which ones are going to support the coup so we can ask them.
I agree with you, but you have to balance taking them seriously because this is serious business with making them look like pathetic jokes because otherwise you are giving 'both sides' legitimacy to the crazy shit they are trying to pull.
In this case, just like our concerns they were going to arrest / indict Joe before the election...or hack / stuff ballot boxes,...or their lawyers were going to descend and put a stop to all the counting before we knew who won...they didn't do the work.
Now it's just pathetic flailing. If they were going to launch a successful coup they wouldn't be shifting loyalists around today and losing court case after court case. They can do a lot of damage between now and January, and they can maybe even hobble Biden a bit, but they aren't going to stay in power.
They just don't have the numbers, planning, or people in key positions. They are fucking lazy and stupid and that is really benefiting us if they were seriously trying to overthrow the government.
if not, then we can start talking about sedition and coups in a more serious light. what is actually happening here is the gop is playing with fire trying to keep the base angry so they win 2 senate seats. no more, no less. it's pathetic and dangerous, but it's the gop so that's basically their bread and butter.
the ultra wealthy people who run the gop have no interest in a coup, because turns out a really great way to devalue the billions of dollars you have on a server in new york is to destabilize the country such that your money is worthless. when your power is money, you need the us government to be stable to enforce the value of that money. otherwise it's just random pieces of paper and 1s and 0s on a server.
If you want to feel better:
1)The military brass, who uniformed folks are more loyal to than Trump cronies, basically hate his guts. He has been losing the military vote. The military won't back shit.
2)The Secret Service hates him. I know this because I am friends with agents. Trump folks won't give them proper protection. They work 60-80 hours a week. Get treated like trash. And a ton have gotten sick. Never a good idea for a dictator to piss off their personal guards.
3)The Courts have shown no interest in bullshit. Even the most partisan judge who happily said Obamacare was unconstitutional once the mandate was $0 laughed them out of court.
4)The executive has no control over its own election. None. Negative. States control it. States made their call already.
5)The GSA stuff and such is legal but petty and expected. Come the end of this month all the votes are certified. Next month the electors vote.
I can straight up say my friends who work at the SS probably will enjoy dragging Trump out kicking and screaming.
And if that happens, the JCoS will issue a statement that the Military Code of Conduct behooves them to disobey illegal orders, and the armed forces will do nothing. *pardon if I got any of the jargon wrong.
I have been thinking of Trump as America’s Sulla for a while.
And while I still think come next year, despite all attempts, Biden will be president.
I do not see how the fabric of our democracy is not permanently damaged by what is occurring right now. I don’t see how we ultimately come back from this for future elections.
If he forces the issue or the GSA takes initiative I guarantee the agency gets purged, and in this shambles of a government it's one of the few that hasn't been yet.
As of January 20th he couldn't order shit. No matter if the oath is taken or not. Transfer of power is automatic. The oath is just for show.
The military's oath is to the constitution not the president. They are bound to reject illegal orders. This as a person who works with these people day in and day out I am not worried about. You would have a higher chance of him telling the head of the Joint Chiefs and the Joint Chief beating his ass.
Mike Pompeo is all of Trump's worst qualities in a slightly more intelligible package. He's every bit as whiny and short-tempered he just doesn't fumble his words when he's bullshitting.
God I hate this motherfucker
If the domestic terrorism takes the shape of a rash of political assassinations that results in republicans, still beholden to trumps cultists, in the line of succession getting the White House are any of those federal employees going to do anything but accept the "peacful" execution of the line of succession in the face of unprecedented assassination?
Like if you'r asking me to catastrophize this for you i can definitely illustrate how this potentially goes down. First and foremost legality is mostly unimportant. Yes legally there's a very clear sequence of events we should see. Unfortunately for a bunch of people, even those in our government, the constitution's a bit like the bible. They don't really know exactly what's in it besides, "what the fuck I say is in it".
This is however some worst possible case stuff and like im fully willing to say it's not super reasonable, as a private citizen, to worry about this type of thing until it is actively happening
Moreover, the GOP desperately needs to see Trump chastised and humiliated. They don't want to see it, but they really need to see it.
Also on Steam and PSN: twobadcats
and obviously they would not stand up to actual military action, but it does raise the stakes on this game of chicken even more, which seems like the current MO
not that i think this is likely going to happen or anything! but if it did that'd be my guess how they go about it. Really sloppy writing otherwise.
Despite whatever a shitshow these past / next few months are, as long as stuff gets somewhat back to normal in 4-8 years we will all turn out and vote and pretend that everything is back to normal as a country. It's kind of our thing.
We want to pretend this is an abberation, a time when the country went batshit crazy so in a few years we can all look back and go 'yeah, 2020, that was something' and keep on keeping on.
Yes there is a lot of permanent damage, but Trump is going to be gone down the memory hole and you're not going to be able to find anyone but the wingnuttiest of wingnuts who ever supported or agreed with him. Much less the idea that he should have stayed President after the election he obviously lost. (although there are CONCERNS about Hunter Biden Laptop Ballots etc)