[Hearthstone] A third-rate autobattler with a fourth-rate card game.

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  • AlphagaiaAlphagaia Registered User regular
    edited January 8
    The Judge wrote: »
    Alphagaia wrote: »
    Beasteh wrote: »
    made a control warrior deck to counter all the shaman and rogue and i immediately queued into five hard control warlocks in a row

    every single one of these warlocks had felosophied tickatus to deck me, double stickyfinger for my bulwark, and silas for my rattlegore

    probably the most one sided matchup i have ever seen in hearthstone? jesus christ i am tilted

    e: loses to res priest too, what is even the point of this deck

    every rogue i face is hyper aggro now, seems miracle rogue has died off with all the control lock ruining their fun

    I brought this to Legend last month. It's legit.

    ### Galakrond Beats All

    Had a quest for Warriors, gave this a spin with these changes due to missing cards:

    -1 Barov / -1 Scion
    +1 Deathwing, Mad / +1 Bloodboil Brute

    I flat out murdered the two Evolve Shamans I saw. MVP? The Brute. Shamans make it cheap as hell and pairs nicely with Bloodsworn.

    I feel Scion on it's own is better suited against big boards as it can target up to 3 targets where Brute needs damaged creatures to be cheaper and Bloodworm to be better. Scion scales better with Stage Dive or Galakrond which is awesome.
    I feel Skipper and Armor Smith also synergise with Scion a tad better as well, for even more damage / health.
    A second brawl would be preferable if you don't have Barov as you can play it sooner then the dragon, but it's certainly not a bad pick.

    But hey, if it works!

    Deck feels really good against Rogue, Hunter and Priest as well by the way. Especially Rogue is favored. Druid is race though, before the taunt trains come.

    Alphagaia on
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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Small balance patch going live today.

    Text dump:
    We’ve got a small balance patch with a few big changes planned for release this Friday, January 8!

    Standard Balance Updates

    Edwin VanCleef
    Old: [Costs 3] → New: [Costs 4]

    Dev Comment: The last few weeks have been the best Edwin has ever performed as an individual card (the highest win rate card in multiple Rogue archetypes). Alongside cards like Foxy Fraud and Shadowstep, the frequency of early 8/8 or 10/10 Edwin VanCleefs reached a point we are no longer comfortable with. We want to evaluate how the rest of Rogue's kit performs without this very powerful iteration of Edwin. Cards like Foxy Fraud, Swindle, and Prize Plunderer are important pieces for future expansions and card interactions, so we'll be keeping close tabs on how they perform with the influx of new cards and Edwin's nerf.

    Boggspine Knuckles
    Old: 4 Attack → New: 3 Attack

    Dev Comment: We're lowering the attack on Boggspine Knuckles in order to cut into the fluidity of Evolve Shaman, increasing the required investment of playing a 5-mana weapon without a free Dread Corsair, and reduce the overall damage output the deck is capable of over multiple weapon charges. This change lowers the amount of explosive plays available to Evolve Shaman and should create an overall healthier meta.

    Battlegrounds Balance Update

    Elistra the Immortal
    Old: 7 Attack, 7 Health → New: 4 Attack, 4 Health

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  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    Nerfing Elistra is probably fine. She was too good. I don't know how that specific nerf plays out.

    I would like to have more BG changes. I feel the gulf between good and bad heroes is too big and spells don't really help. You can usually die to bad luck (getting matched to top players exclusively, not hitting good minions/triples, getting bad spells) in the mid game easily, but if you play too conservative you will always lose to high rollers anyway. So it's often the crrect play to just greed it and pray and that doesn't feel very good.

    PoGo friend code: 7835 1672 4968
    zepherinfortyBeastehKafkaAU
  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited January 8
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Small balance patch going live today.

    Text dump:
    We’ve got a small balance patch with a few big changes planned for release this Friday, January 8!

    Standard Balance Updates

    Edwin VanCleef
    Old: [Costs 3] → New: [Costs 4]

    Dev Comment: The last few weeks have been the best Edwin has ever performed as an individual card (the highest win rate card in multiple Rogue archetypes). Alongside cards like Foxy Fraud and Shadowstep, the frequency of early 8/8 or 10/10 Edwin VanCleefs reached a point we are no longer comfortable with. We want to evaluate how the rest of Rogue's kit performs without this very powerful iteration of Edwin. Cards like Foxy Fraud, Swindle, and Prize Plunderer are important pieces for future expansions and card interactions, so we'll be keeping close tabs on how they perform with the influx of new cards and Edwin's nerf.

    Boggspine Knuckles
    Old: 4 Attack → New: 3 Attack

    Dev Comment: We're lowering the attack on Boggspine Knuckles in order to cut into the fluidity of Evolve Shaman, increasing the required investment of playing a 5-mana weapon without a free Dread Corsair, and reduce the overall damage output the deck is capable of over multiple weapon charges. This change lowers the amount of explosive plays available to Evolve Shaman and should create an overall healthier meta.

    Battlegrounds Balance Update

    Elistra the Immortal
    Old: 7 Attack, 7 Health → New: 4 Attack, 4 Health

    never thought i'd see the fucking day they nerf Edwin

    they even mentioned on twitter they're planning on HoFing him and reverting the nerf at that time

    Grobian wrote: »
    Nerfing Elistra is probably fine. She was too good. I don't know how that specific nerf plays out.

    I would like to have more BG changes. I feel the gulf between good and bad heroes is too big and spells don't really help. You can usually die to bad luck (getting matched to top players exclusively, not hitting good minions/triples, getting bad spells) in the mid game easily, but if you play too conservative you will always lose to high rollers anyway. So it's often the crrect play to just greed it and pray and that doesn't feel very good.

    It weakens her as a triple reward early on in the game (where she was FAR too strong) but retains her unique use-case as a tech card to protect taunts. It's still fine in the lategame; 7 health/attack did not matter in the lategame, the effect was what mattered.

    A good nerf that I'm definitely sold on.

    Dibby on
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  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    I think 3 attack on Knuckles changes virtually nothing. Dread Corsair costs 1 instead of 0 and you can't remove a 4 health minion on your swing turn, but those don't seem like significant impacts.

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  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    I think 3 attack on Knuckles changes virtually nothing. Dread Corsair costs 1 instead of 0 and you can't remove a 4 health minion on your swing turn, but those don't seem like significant impacts.

    bqpul4stffa2.jpeg

    forty
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    I'm confused. They didn't change the mana cost on Knuckles.

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  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    I'm confused. They didn't change the mana cost on Knuckles.
    I have the image I’m going to use it when it is viable.

    emnmnmefortyShadowhopeElvenshae
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    I think 3 attack on Knuckles changes virtually nothing. Dread Corsair costs 1 instead of 0 and you can't remove a 4 health minion on your swing turn, but those don't seem like significant impacts.

    The results are all that matter. If the number of Evolve Shamans drops by half over the next week, I'll consider it a good nerf.

    zepherinfortyElvenshae
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited January 9
    Oh man I fucking called Knuckles getting -attack as the nerf.

    Also it's not a Hall of Faming, but I'll take the Edwin nerf.

    Time to collect 2400 dust.

    forty on
    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
    zepherin
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    It's both. They're nerfing him to 4, then reverting when they HoF it.

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    zepherin
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    I'm confused. They didn't change the mana cost on Knuckles.
    Yilias wrote:
    Dread Corsair costs 1 instead of 0

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
    KafkaAU
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    It's both. They're nerfing him to 4, then reverting when they HoF it.
    Ooh, in that case...
    April after April I keep being shocked that Edwin never gets HoF'd or nerfed.

    Darkmoon Faire has been the ultimate expansion of vindication.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
    zepherin
  • The JudgeThe Judge The Terwilliger CurvesRegistered User regular
    I may have missed 60 Minutes, was Dread Corsair somehow the anchoring card that was holding Evolve Shaman together?

    Last pint: Dark Star / Fremont
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited January 9
    It was one of the contributing pieces to Evolve Shaman swing turns. Clearly Team 5's intent isn't to completely torpedo Evolve Shaman to the bottom of the sea the way they did Galakrond Shaman in December 2019.

    Edit: Believe it or not, there were actually already a few decks with positive win rates against Evolve Shaman, but part of the issue is that Miracle Rogue generally pounded on them, so they were tough decks to try to bring into a meta heavy with both. Of course Miracle Rogue should still be able to live on with nerfed (or replaced) Edwin, so it remains to be seen how much the meta will be opened up for the counters.

    forty on
    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
    zepherin
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Apparently the HoF is going away in it's current incarnation and a new system is coming into place. No other details given.

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  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Apparently the HoF is going away in it's current incarnation and a new system is coming into place. No other details given.

    Hall of Fame will be Hall of Fame'd?

    MNC DoverfortyInvictusYiliasAlphagaiaBeastehElvenshae
  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. boom Registered User regular
    core set rotation team you just gotta believe

    liEt3nH.png
    YiliasShadowhopeElvenshae
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    I'm guessing I know the answer, but does completing the Jaina/Rexxar campaign again to get the Achievements (which claim to reward a pack) actually get you another class pack?

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
  • AlphagaiaAlphagaia Registered User regular
    edited January 9
    emnmnme wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Apparently the HoF is going away in it's current incarnation and a new system is coming into place. No other details given.

    Hall of Fame will be Hall of Fame'd?

    I guess a (monthly?) system where some cards are banned and some cards are released back into the meta would certainly keep things interesting.
    Especially if one can earn those 'old' cards from brawls or adventures.

    Alphagaia on
    Wanna try my Mario Maker levels?

    Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09
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  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    The last time they did that we had Evolve Quest Shaman.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
    MNC DoverElvenshae
  • AlphagaiaAlphagaia Registered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    The last time they did that we had Evolve Quest Shaman.

    I'm sure they will make mistakes along the way. Depends on how fast they will adapt and evolve themselves. I mean, they are quicker with Nerfs and Changes nowadays. Hope they become even quicker, but I understand it's a tough decision between let's see if the meta can figure it out first and changing things to quickly.

    Wanna try my Mario Maker levels?

    Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09
    P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359
    Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E
    I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048

    See my profile here!
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Alphagaia wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Apparently the HoF is going away in it's current incarnation and a new system is coming into place. No other details given.

    Hall of Fame will be Hall of Fame'd?

    I guess a (monthly?) system where some cards are banned and some cards are released back into the meta would certainly keep things interesting.
    Especially if one can earn those 'old' cards from brawls or adventures.

    Plus this would be a great way to sell/give away more older packs. A win-win!

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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    evolve mechanics have literally never not been broken so i dont know why they keep printing and pushing new ones

    find another fucking direction for the class you goblins

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
    zepherinElvenshae
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited January 10
    Dibby wrote: »
    evolve mechanics have literally never not been broken so i dont know why they keep printing and pushing new ones

    find another fucking direction for the class you goblins

    The mechanic would work better if there were high mana cost duds for minions to evolve into. A Shaman can throw down that Mortals Are So Squishy dude without fear because there's no 10-mana Hai'reek.

    emnmnme on
  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Dibby wrote: »
    evolve mechanics have literally never not been broken so i dont know why they keep printing and pushing new ones

    find another fucking direction for the class you goblins

    The mechanic would work better if there were high mana cost duds for minions to evolve into. A Shaman can throw down that Mortals Are So Squishy dude without fear because there's no 10-mana Hai'reek.
    There exist plenty of duds at every mana level.

    I always get the duds.

    fortyElvenshae
  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Dibby wrote: »
    evolve mechanics have literally never not been broken so i dont know why they keep printing and pushing new ones

    find another fucking direction for the class you goblins

    The mechanic would work better if there were high mana cost duds for minions to evolve into. A Shaman can throw down that Mortals Are So Squishy dude without fear because there's no 10-mana Hai'reek.

    Making new bad high cost cards (duds) is not the answer to the Evolve problem. It's not even a bandaid.

    The answer is to stop making Evolve mechanics. The answer to any design problem is to directly address it, not inadvertently change it via introducing more randomness so that like maybe 1 time out of 10 they get a dud. Cause those 9 other times feel bad for the person playing against Shaman, and that 1 time feels bad for the Shaman player (and yes, it's important for the people playing the game to have fun on both sides, like if you're playing a deck whose entire build-around is mana-cheating out high-cost dudes then it better feel fuckin' good when you mana-cheat those out). But the problem occurs in the first place when the frustration outweighs the fun, and currently that's where we're at.

    DNiDlnb.png
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    fortyElvenshae
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited January 10
    3/4 of the Old Gods are pretty bad to Evolve into at 10 mana.

    forty on
    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
    zepherin
  • AlphagaiaAlphagaia Registered User regular
    Perhaps evolve should change minions into tokens with power and toughness equal to their cost, and not even up their cost by 1.

    I gave this 5 seconds of thought so I might eat my words by making it worse.

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  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Alphagaia wrote: »
    Perhaps evolve should change minions into tokens with power and toughness equal to their cost, and not even up their cost by 1.

    I gave this 5 seconds of thought so I might eat my words by making it worse.

    Oo, oo, Evolve now affects all minions on both sides of the board. Problem solved.

  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    Evolve should just silence the minions after they've been evolved.

  • AlphagaiaAlphagaia Registered User regular
    edited January 10
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Evolve should just silence the minions after they've been evolved.

    Depends on how many low cost minions with high stats we have that have drawbacks, but it's a good start.

    Alphagaia on
    Wanna try my Mario Maker levels?

    Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09
    P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359
    Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E
    I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048

    See my profile here!
  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    Evolve as a one off is not that great. The 0 point evolve was a good swing card but it was never just wrecking the field. It’s the weapon where on turn 4 (with coin) you can drop it 2 minions (for free) and attack giving huge value then dropping 3-4 minions on the next turn and swinging again for value. The back to back hits where it’s like turn 4 you have 2 5 cost minions then turn 5 you have 3 4 cost minions and a 2 cost minions as well as removing 2 threats with the knucks. It’s a big move. And revolve makes it so that you can make smaller moves.

    fortyemnmnmeElvenshae
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    How did Evolve get pinned to Shamans, anyways? Shamans didn't evolve things in WoW, they just tossed some useless totems around.

  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    edited January 10
    Wild VS #25

    Aggro Druid fell apart after the Voracious Reader nerf, while Secret Mage has continued to refine. New T1 is Secret Mage, Odd Paladin, Darkglare, Kingsbane, and Reno Priest.

    Yilias on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    So Sayge really has supplanted Aluneth, eh?

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Not just Sayge but also Rigged Faire Game drawing 3. It's pretty common to see 25+ cards every game now, which is also why all the secrets but Explosive Runes and Rigged Faire Game are 1 ofs now.

    The even more interesting development is that the increased focus on board development and pushing minion damage has led to cutting Ice Block.

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  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    Sometimes even a solid build can’t get first.

    tzn6dhoj2pkk.jpeg

    MNC Dover
  • AlphagaiaAlphagaia Registered User regular
    edited January 11
    This poor Hunter didn't know what hit him. Again and again. The game that got me into dad legend already.

    Edit: for me 11 days is quick, ok? Ok?!

    https://hsreplay.net/replay/7faLBMfXcFcS6jBo47WSaD

    Alphagaia on
    Wanna try my Mario Maker levels?

    Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09
    P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359
    Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E
    I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048

    See my profile here!
    ElvenshaeObiFettGoodKingJayIII
  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    This game ( https://hsreplay.net/replay/PnJVumppEYWed8fmyTXaRJ ) taught me that Yogg's Rod of Roasting can't target minions with stealth.

    Or heroes that are stealthed :cool:

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