Every rogue I’ve fought lately has felt like playing against old miracle rogue, except they also were doing 10-15 face damage while in the process of drawing their entire deck by turn 10, so I’m happy to see some needs to them.
The battlegrounds minions changes look mostly pretty good, lots of them are just better stat lines for when you spike them on a triple, but don’t get a synergistic pick. Like lil rag or gar, having a 6/6 or 8/1 is much better than 4/4 or 5/1 if you get it early, even if it doesn’t work with your comp. 2 mana dragon going to 3/3 is a little weird, but they probably have the data showing that it’s stronger than the other picks.
I'm wondering if this potentially kills Darkglare. Pinging your own face a bunch of times with Pen Flinger was a huge part of getting your giants out on turn 4/5.
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09 P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359 Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
They're both pretty damn good, so it probably depends which classes you play more. Maybe a slight edge to Jandice since she can slot into a majority of mage/rogue decks pretty safely. She's almost always an above average turn 5 play if you're not me.
Huh, they finally made Tracking into a discover card. Never did make sense comparatively that you had to throw two cards out of your deck to pull one out of your deck.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
It made some sense early on in the game's life when 1 mana choose 1 of 3 was a pretty unique and powerful effect. These days, yeah, not that special so no reason to have that downside to it.
I found thining out the deck to be an actual upside.
Alphagaia on
Wanna try my Mario Maker levels?
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09 P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359 Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
deck of lunacy to 4 is a pretty big nerf. A lot of the time if the mage had draw they could clear a board off a chaos nova on the same turn they cast deck of lunacy. the nerf slows things down a lot
Lunacy to 4 mana (this won't affect mage causing insane blowouts, spell mage won't give a shit about this)
Penflinger only targets minions (this is huge)
Sword of the Fallen is now a 1/2
Jandice to 6 mana
The 2 and 3 mana watch posts got a health knocked off them
Bunch of bgs minions stats got shuffled around
This pretty much murders Libram paladin and all flavors of rogue, I am uneasy at the light slap on the wrist deck of lunacy received since it fails to address the issue of it turning games into one sided casinostone
I would have preferred to see refreshing spring water touched as well since that's a huge problem card for me (it does what it does in spell mage way too easily)
Was Jandice really that much of a problem at 5?
Ehhh I guess so right, plopping down 3 bodies for 5 mana is A Bit Much huh. On curve was very difficult to handle.
edit: Hahahaha Hooktusk reworked for, what, a third time now? We'll see if that's a good compromise or she shoots straight up back to top tiers. Having a choice of 2 instead of 3 probably means she'll be good but not... busted? I'd think, anyway. WHO KNOWS.
Pretty happy with the rest of those BG changes though. Pretty much agree with em all.
dubs edit: I'd like to see more in-depth Pirate changes though? Really not happy with how endgame Pirates right now is literally Triple Chadgar/Rivendare with Eliza and the 1 drop deathrattle pirate. Trying to build a board of actual Pirates and attain Pirate synergy is fucking hard.
Dibby on
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Since the shakeup she was too consistent in getting super high quality minions, it's a good nerf.
Lowroll Jandice on 5 was perfectly fine. The problem is Jandice is a stupid highroll card and could completely blowout games when she hit two strong 5 drops. Also Rogue could play her 2 or more times per game pretty readily. Also the fact that the already strong spell Mage could generate her from Font of Power was a real punch in the nuts.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
edited April 2021
So they did not nerf Refreshing Springwater. That seems like a huge mistake.
As I get closer to Legend, I'm starting to see a lot more of what you were talking about Shadowhope. Turn 1 secret into turn 2 Watch Post and a lot of people will just tap out.
For all the talk of Mage and Paladin dominance (which is true), all I'm seeing at Diamond 8 is Warlock and Priest. Which have absolutely absurd levels of removal and card generation, respectively. The power levels right now really don't feel like a "standard" environment to me at all, and I'm a little concerned at what things are going to look like with another expansion or two thrown into the mix later down the line.
And done, still need 5 more Paladin wins to hit 1k, but that can wait.
I tried a bit of Tarim and he ultimately felt too inconsistent, but Conviction is frequently a 1 mana Fireball/Pyroblast. Lots of people running other additions to the minion pool; Knife Juggler, Mana Wraith, Albatross, Injured Blademaster, etc. No idea if that's correct, but you can definitely run into situations where you just run out of minions in your deck to play. People are probably going to go back to Odd after the patch anyway so I'm not sure it even warrants thinking about in the end.
There is no way to simply counter secrets (and frankly, most of the ways they've made to 'counter' secrets have been cards that are too bad to put in your deck). The method is simply the same as it's always been: sequence your plays in an order where you feel that you've mitigated the worst case scenario for secrets.
Todays flavor controlls the best decks with an endless amount of spells. It can outlast Warlocks and Paladins with ease, and Mages just weep when their spells get tossed right back at them.
### Neverending Story
# Class: Priest
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Gryphon
#
# 2x (0) Raise Dead
# 2x (1) Draconic Studies
# 1x (1) Holy Smite
# 2x (1) Renew
# 1x (1) Wave of Apathy
# 1x (2) Acidic Swamp Ooze
# 1x (2) Condemn (Rank 1)
# 2x (2) Insight
# 2x (2) Sethekk Veilweaver
# 1x (2) Shadow Word: Death
# 2x (2) Thrive in the Shadows
# 1x (2) Wandmaker
# 1x (3) Apotheosis
# 2x (3) Educated Elekk
# 1x (3) Hysteria
# 1x (3) Mindrender Illucia
# 2x (3) Palm Reading
# 1x (4) Cabal Acolyte
# 1x (4) The Nameless One
# 1x (4) Xyrella
# 1x (7) Soul Mirror
# 1x (9) Malygos the Spellweaver
#
AAECAZ/HAg6vugPIvgPLzQPj0QP70QP+0QOY3gP44wOe6wPU7QO1igSFnwSsnwTBnwQIk7oDm7oD3swD184DutUD4t4D+98DrYoEAA==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
Here is a bonkers replay where a mage got an Elekk of it's own:
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09 P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359 Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
There is no way to simply counter secrets (and frankly, most of the ways they've made to 'counter' secrets have been cards that are too bad to put in your deck). The method is simply the same as it's always been: sequence your plays in an order where you feel that you've mitigated the worst case scenario for secrets.
Dunno, Eater of Secrets was pretty dece as a one of, especially during the days of Christmas Trees
The problem with secret counters is that they’re such a disadvantage in other matchups that the meta needs to be absolutely lousy with secret decks for them to be worthwhile
Like you can run ooze to deal with weapons and it’s still a 3/2 for two, which isn’t completely awful. Anti-secret techs (aside from flare) were/are all way worse
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
Penflinger nerf seems big. I don't even play standard.
Yeah, despite what Twitch or reddit might tell you (thankfully haven't seen anyone here arguing it), that significantly hinders Pen Flinger decks. Libram Paladins and Rogues win a lot of their games by inches from the extra reach of Pen Flinger face damage.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
As of last night the top Paladin decks on HSReplay weren't even running Pen Flinger so there's some concern there. We'll see, I suppose.
The problem with secret counters is that they’re such a disadvantage in other matchups that the meta needs to be absolutely lousy with secret decks for them to be worthwhile
Like you can run ooze to deal with weapons and it’s still a 3/2 for two, which isn’t completely awful. Anti-secret techs (aside from flare) were/are all way worse
The current secret tech card is a spider tank (3 mana 3/4) and I've never seen it played. Of course, it isn't quite anti-secret either, more mutually assured destruction.
As of last night the top Paladin decks on HSReplay weren't even running Pen Flinger so there's some concern there. We'll see, I suppose.
Must be the straight up aggro Secret Paladin variants. I can't imagine they're not in the Libram Paladin variant, because there's way too much damage/value off of the Pen Flinger + free Libram of Wisdom combo to ignore. I don't know what you'd replace them with to make the deck more consistent.
VS considered the Secret Paladin to be just slightly worse than Libram, but with the Pen Flinger nerf I'm sure it will be the de facto Paladin deck after today. Losing a swing off the Sword certainly isn't nothing and should tighten up matchups a bit, but it's hard to imagine it not still being a T1 deck.
Anecdotally, I felt like my Libram vs. Secret Paladin encounter rate over the last week was pretty indicative of the VS data, with slightly more Libram Paladins showing up on average, but still a significant number of Secret Paladins. That said, my overall matchups tended far more toward Paladins than the data shows.
Posts
The battlegrounds minions changes look mostly pretty good, lots of them are just better stat lines for when you spike them on a triple, but don’t get a synergistic pick. Like lil rag or gar, having a 6/6 or 8/1 is much better than 4/4 or 5/1 if you get it early, even if it doesn’t work with your comp. 2 mana dragon going to 3/3 is a little weird, but they probably have the data showing that it’s stronger than the other picks.
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09
P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359
Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E
I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
See my profile here!
Wasn't me!
Thank fucking god
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09
P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359
Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E
I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
See my profile here!
https://medium.com/@alascii
Was Jandice really that much of a problem at 5?
Ehhh I guess so right, plopping down 3 bodies for 5 mana is A Bit Much huh. On curve was very difficult to handle.
edit: Hahahaha Hooktusk reworked for, what, a third time now? We'll see if that's a good compromise or she shoots straight up back to top tiers. Having a choice of 2 instead of 3 probably means she'll be good but not... busted? I'd think, anyway. WHO KNOWS.
Pretty happy with the rest of those BG changes though. Pretty much agree with em all.
dubs edit: I'd like to see more in-depth Pirate changes though? Really not happy with how endgame Pirates right now is literally Triple Chadgar/Rivendare with Eliza and the 1 drop deathrattle pirate. Trying to build a board of actual Pirates and attain Pirate synergy is fucking hard.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
I tried a bit of Tarim and he ultimately felt too inconsistent, but Conviction is frequently a 1 mana Fireball/Pyroblast. Lots of people running other additions to the minion pool; Knife Juggler, Mana Wraith, Albatross, Injured Blademaster, etc. No idea if that's correct, but you can definitely run into situations where you just run out of minions in your deck to play. People are probably going to go back to Odd after the patch anyway so I'm not sure it even warrants thinking about in the end.
HDT Stats:
Guys am I Libraming right??
### Neverending Story
# Class: Priest
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Gryphon
#
# 2x (0) Raise Dead
# 2x (1) Draconic Studies
# 1x (1) Holy Smite
# 2x (1) Renew
# 1x (1) Wave of Apathy
# 1x (2) Acidic Swamp Ooze
# 1x (2) Condemn (Rank 1)
# 2x (2) Insight
# 2x (2) Sethekk Veilweaver
# 1x (2) Shadow Word: Death
# 2x (2) Thrive in the Shadows
# 1x (2) Wandmaker
# 1x (3) Apotheosis
# 2x (3) Educated Elekk
# 1x (3) Hysteria
# 1x (3) Mindrender Illucia
# 2x (3) Palm Reading
# 1x (4) Cabal Acolyte
# 1x (4) The Nameless One
# 1x (4) Xyrella
# 1x (7) Soul Mirror
# 1x (9) Malygos the Spellweaver
#
AAECAZ/HAg6vugPIvgPLzQPj0QP70QP+0QOY3gP44wOe6wPU7QO1igSFnwSsnwTBnwQIk7oDm7oD3swD184DutUD4t4D+98DrYoEAA==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
Here is a bonkers replay where a mage got an Elekk of it's own:
https://hsreplay.net/replay/kPUV3Y3cgfiT6oXXsGYBtK
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09
P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359
Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E
I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
See my profile here!
Dunno, Eater of Secrets was pretty dece as a one of, especially during the days of Christmas Trees
The rest though yeah. Kinda not super great.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Like you can run ooze to deal with weapons and it’s still a 3/2 for two, which isn’t completely awful. Anti-secret techs (aside from flare) were/are all way worse
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
For a tech card it doesn't really... do anything though.
VS considered the Secret Paladin to be just slightly worse than Libram, but with the Pen Flinger nerf I'm sure it will be the de facto Paladin deck after today. Losing a swing off the Sword certainly isn't nothing and should tighten up matchups a bit, but it's hard to imagine it not still being a T1 deck.
Anecdotally, I felt like my Libram vs. Secret Paladin encounter rate over the last week was pretty indicative of the VS data, with slightly more Libram Paladins showing up on average, but still a significant number of Secret Paladins. That said, my overall matchups tended far more toward Paladins than the data shows.