[Hearthstone] United in Horror at All of This

MNC Dover

Time for a new OP. The old one was very out of date. Maybe a new one will emerge in the future.

Beasteh

That new thread smell

I think I will go for legend this season with C'thun Libroom Paladin because it looks like it has game vs pretty much everything

dporowski

I have nothing really to add, but I felt I should note I initially read that as "Chun Li Broom Paladin" and I was very, very curious for a moment.

zepherin

We should probably link the friends list.

I'm renaming mine to chun li boom paladin.

Dibby

primo fuckin thread title btw

Beasteh

as if this is going anywhere

Yilias

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/hearthstone/t/rewards-track-update/45441

We have been listening to your feedback regarding the Rewards Track and it’s clear we missed the mark both in how we communicated and implemented the full functionality of this first version of our rewards system.

We apologize for the confusion and disappointment we have caused.

During the natural progression of the rewards cycle, our intention was, and still is, to give out extra XP over time through a variety of ways. The aim is to help players get through the Rewards Track, or catch-up if they join later in an expansion phase, ultimately ensuring players earn more rewards.

We also didn’t provide any details for how events will link into and support the rewards system. We will be providing bonus XP for various activities at each seasonal event every expansion cycle, and any additional bonus events as needed, again with the aim of ensuring that our players obtain more rewards. Our failure to communicate these factors has led to incomplete projections, for which we apologize.

In addition, you’ve provided us with a wealth of feedback, and we agree that the pack rewards at the end of the track don’t feel appropriate for the effort it takes to get them. We’re going to adjust these rewards in the later stages of the track, swapping six packs for a total of 1350 gold that players can spend as they see fit. If any players reach this milestone before we implement these changes, they will be retroactively compensated.

Our goal for the Rewards Track continues to be that all Hearthstone players earn more gold and total rewards per expansion. We’ll continue to evaluate the impact of these changes, listen to your feedback, and iterate as needed until we get it right.

We will stay true to our word and ensure that the system lives up to what we all believe Hearthstone deserves.

Thank you,

Ben Lee
Game Director

Dibby

Here is a Very Good Take on the whole sitch since there has been WAY too much hyperbole and negativity ("BLIZZARD LIED TO US!!!!!")

https://outof.cards/hearthstone/2234-blizzard-screwed-up-with-the-rewards-track-a-letter-to-hearthstone

tl;dr yeah Blizz screwed up, yes they're gonna fix it, no it wasn't a conspiracy from ActiBlizz to try to get people to spend more money, yes the HS team 1000% needs to DO BETTER

i strongly believe the foundation of the new Reward Track is a Good Thing, they just *really missed the mark*. But they seem dedicated to getting it right.

forty

We’re going to adjust these rewards in the later stages of the track, swapping six packs for a total of 1350 gold that players can spend as they see fit.

♫ Vindicated, and it feels so good
Vindicated 'cause I understood ♫

Dibby wrote: »

Here is a Very Good Take on the whole sitch since there has been WAY too much hyperbole and negativity ("BLIZZARD LIED TO US!!!!!")

https://outof.cards/hearthstone/2234-blizzard-screwed-up-with-the-rewards-track-a-letter-to-hearthstone

tl;dr yeah Blizz screwed up, yes they're gonna fix it, no it wasn't a conspiracy from ActiBlizz to try to get people to spend more money, yes the HS team 1000% needs to DO BETTER

i strongly believe the foundation of the new Reward Track is a Good Thing, they just *really missed the mark*. But they seem dedicated to getting it right.

So in other words... everyone who said the rewards track as released gave less rewards for the same effort was right.

And if it wasn't for the clamor, what are the odds Blizzard was going to fix it? Guessing low%.

The Judge

40 Packs / 200 Cards

91 Unique cards opened.

Legends (2) - ETC, G'huun
Epics (5) - Cascading Disaster, Malevolent Strike, Cloak of Shadows, Guess the Weight, Hammer of the Naaru

Yikes.

Dibby

forty wrote: »

We’re going to adjust these rewards in the later stages of the track, swapping six packs for a total of 1350 gold that players can spend as they see fit.

♫ Vindicated, and it feels so good
Vindicated 'cause I understood ♫

Dibby wrote: »

Here is a Very Good Take on the whole sitch since there has been WAY too much hyperbole and negativity ("BLIZZARD LIED TO US!!!!!")

https://outof.cards/hearthstone/2234-blizzard-screwed-up-with-the-rewards-track-a-letter-to-hearthstone

tl;dr yeah Blizz screwed up, yes they're gonna fix it, no it wasn't a conspiracy from ActiBlizz to try to get people to spend more money, yes the HS team 1000% needs to DO BETTER

i strongly believe the foundation of the new Reward Track is a Good Thing, they just *really missed the mark*. But they seem dedicated to getting it right.

So in other words... everyone who said the rewards track as released gave less rewards for the same effort was right.

And if it wasn't for the clamor, what are the odds Blizzard was going to fix it? Guessing low%.

Not saying the response wasn't warranted, just the way the community (Reddit etc) handled it was really poor

It absolutely was warranted, just not... like that. Could've been handled better and instead we got vitriol and hate.

Oh well. Means to an end, I suppose

Yilias

Il'gynoth is a little finicky, but man is he game winning when he works.

Beasteh

early expansion report after a few games with each deck:

corrupt y'shaarj mage: INCREDIBLY strong, you have more than enough control to get to your big boys, ring toss is ludicrous, y'shaarj is a fantastic wincon, playing big impactful cards like deep freeze and power of creation to corrupt stuff feels good, puzzle box into 2x strong man is funny

secret hunter: rinlings rifle is absurd, petting zoo is emerald spellstone on steroids, this deck is one to watch out for

c'thun libroom paladin: at the mercy of draw order, even with heavy cycle i found myself missing crucial pieces, feels like c'thun actually waters down the deck too much

soul demon hunter: so far i have yet to draw il'gynoth, my opponents all have and guess what? they won

ronzo

Dibby wrote: »

Here is a Very Good Take on the whole sitch since there has been WAY too much hyperbole and negativity ("BLIZZARD LIED TO US!!!!!")

https://outof.cards/hearthstone/2234-blizzard-screwed-up-with-the-rewards-track-a-letter-to-hearthstone

tl;dr yeah Blizz screwed up, yes they're gonna fix it, no it wasn't a conspiracy from ActiBlizz to try to get people to spend more money, yes the HS team 1000% needs to DO BETTER

i strongly believe the foundation of the new Reward Track is a Good Thing, they just *really missed the mark*. But they seem dedicated to getting it right.

Weird, Apex just went through nearly the exact same thing, a mostly new rewards scheme that replaced the old one (that worked just fine), but whoops, it came out completely different than what the devs intended! Respawn tried to make it easier to understand, and give more rewards to the players, but wow it did the exact opposite, making the grind 5-10x longer for everyone, and completely screws the causal players. They’ve since done a nearly complete 180, with a shitload of community outcry driving the whole thing.

Also weirdly, Bungie just did something similar with their f2p currency, bright dust. They massively increased the rewards from the season pass track while removing 50% of the in-game quest rewards. They told everyone that this would be better, but simply doing the math shows something like a ~30% decrease in earned currency if you previous put in the maximum effort (kind of like how you get less gold now than before if you were always on top of daily quests for a whole expansion).

These are just the two other “Games as a Service” games I play, but I’m sure there are other that have gone through something similar in the last 6-12 months.

It’s weirdly coincidental that multiple high-end developers are all making the same player-antagonistic decisions without watching what happened to the other conpanies, while also apparently not ever doing the 30-60 minutes of number crunching that shows a worse outcome for a lot people.

Or its that the publishing companies/leadership of these studios are getting more greedy, and the devs that actually make the game are unwilling hostages are best. If people like us can read the room and do basic math to see how hostile these changes are to players, I think there’s little chance they “just missed the mark” with the design, they just underestimated how many people would notice and care.

ronzo

I’m also not saying it’s a “conspiracy”, it’s just that to me it really comes down to a greed vs incompetence, and I don’t believe that the devs are this bad at their jobs, or at seeing the prevailing trends happening in their fields.

Which leaves greed.

Corran

Pretty good haul myself although I'd trade the hunter or dh legendaries for the paladin demon and another old god.

zepherin

Let me just kill this goat.

forty

Dibby wrote: »

forty wrote: »

We’re going to adjust these rewards in the later stages of the track, swapping six packs for a total of 1350 gold that players can spend as they see fit.

♫ Vindicated, and it feels so good
Vindicated 'cause I understood ♫

Dibby wrote: »

Here is a Very Good Take on the whole sitch since there has been WAY too much hyperbole and negativity ("BLIZZARD LIED TO US!!!!!")

https://outof.cards/hearthstone/2234-blizzard-screwed-up-with-the-rewards-track-a-letter-to-hearthstone

tl;dr yeah Blizz screwed up, yes they're gonna fix it, no it wasn't a conspiracy from ActiBlizz to try to get people to spend more money, yes the HS team 1000% needs to DO BETTER

i strongly believe the foundation of the new Reward Track is a Good Thing, they just *really missed the mark*. But they seem dedicated to getting it right.

So in other words... everyone who said the rewards track as released gave less rewards for the same effort was right.

And if it wasn't for the clamor, what are the odds Blizzard was going to fix it? Guessing low%.

Not saying the response wasn't warranted, just the way the community (Reddit etc) handled it was really poor

It absolutely was warranted, just not... like that. Could've been handled better and instead we got vitriol and hate.

Oh well. Means to an end, I suppose

I don't really know how the community handled it since I mostly stick to our forum. I mean if no one was threatening real life violence or anything I guess I don't really see it as a problem.

But since they explicitly said the new system wouldn't result in less gold and then that was demonstrably shown not to be true, then it's either the case that: A.) they intentionally deceived the community about the system (which can reasonably be argued to be a lie) or B.) the team couldn't perform the elementary school math that many players were able to do that easily discovered the problem.

So either explanation is pretty damning. The silver lining here is that they seem like they want to rectify the problem and DO BETTER as you said, at least after being called out on it. I think players will be justified in being highly skeptical until significant improvements are made, though.

forty

ronzo wrote: »

Dibby wrote: »

Here is a Very Good Take on the whole sitch since there has been WAY too much hyperbole and negativity ("BLIZZARD LIED TO US!!!!!")

https://outof.cards/hearthstone/2234-blizzard-screwed-up-with-the-rewards-track-a-letter-to-hearthstone

tl;dr yeah Blizz screwed up, yes they're gonna fix it, no it wasn't a conspiracy from ActiBlizz to try to get people to spend more money, yes the HS team 1000% needs to DO BETTER

i strongly believe the foundation of the new Reward Track is a Good Thing, they just *really missed the mark*. But they seem dedicated to getting it right.

Weird, Apex just went through nearly the exact same thing, a mostly new rewards scheme that replaced the old one (that worked just fine), but whoops, it came out completely different than what the devs intended! Respawn tried to make it easier to understand, and give more rewards to the players, but wow it did the exact opposite, making the grind 5-10x longer for everyone, and completely screws the causal players. They’ve since done a nearly complete 180, with a shitload of community outcry driving the whole thing.

Also weirdly, Bungie just did something similar with their f2p currency, bright dust. They massively increased the rewards from the season pass track while removing 50% of the in-game quest rewards. They told everyone that this would be better, but simply doing the math shows something like a ~30% decrease in earned currency if you previous put in the maximum effort (kind of like how you get less gold now than before if you were always on top of daily quests for a whole expansion).

These are just the two other “Games as a Service” games I play, but I’m sure there are other that have gone through something similar in the last 6-12 months.

It’s weirdly coincidental that multiple high-end developers are all making the same player-antagonistic decisions without watching what happened to the other conpanies, while also apparently not ever doing the 30-60 minutes of number crunching that shows a worse outcome for a lot people.

Or its that the publishing companies/leadership of these studios are getting more greedy, and the devs that actually make the game are unwilling hostages are best. If people like us can read the room and do basic math to see how hostile these changes are to players, I think there’s little chance they “just missed the mark” with the design, they just underestimated how many people would notice and care.

This is a really interesting post. Wow, I did not know how many other companies were just ahead of Blizzard in doing the exact same stunt.

ronzo wrote: »

Or its that the publishing companies/leadership of these studios are getting more greedy, and the devs that actually make the game are unwilling hostages are best.

This is a good point. I guess I would amend my post above by saying that the only other possible explanation besides A) and is the one you mention here. It's more like an A-2) in this case, since we're still being lied to, but it might be a lie under duress by a dev team afraid of losing their jobs under pressure from above.

Just stop pissing on us and telling us it's rain. There are always enough smart people in a community to figure out the difference between urine and rainwater.

The Judge

I am in serious trouble of breaking the no-crafting-on-day-1 rule for Il'gynoth and the Hunter rifle.

ronzo

Also, the bonus XP from future events is kind of bullshit as well.

Events already used to give extra rewards, in the form of extra packs, dust, or gold. I would have certainly hoped the new system would have given SOMETHING for participating in the event over the normal reward structure.

The extra 1350 gold is the only bone they are throwing us, the "you didnt factor in the event XP!" is barely a cover at all.

zepherin

158 packs

Legos
Golden N'zoth
Greybough
Grand Empress Shek'zara
Deck of Lunacy
Ringmaster Whatley
Kiri Chosen of Elune
Grand Totem Eys'or
Sayge, Seer of Darkmoon
Zai. the incredible
Ace Hunter Kreen

That goat did ok
I did get 35 epics as well, which is very good. Roughly an epic or lego every 6 packs. That'll do.

And a lot of golden cards. When I finally do disenchant, so much dust. Just going to wait for the nerfs.

DodgeBlan

I tried to get back into hearthstone in scholomance, and was able to put together enough good cards to play most of the rogue meta variations.

But hearthstone kinda sucks when you can only play 1.5 meta decks. I would gladly pay $50 if I thought it meant I'd be able to switch between 3 classes worth of competitive decks. but it didn't look like that was the case so I couldn't be bothered. Will the new system be better for a player like me?

emnmnme

Best card art: Costumed Entertainer


Best Flavor text: Bladed Lady
"While you were busy learning magic, she studied the blade."

emnmnme

47 packs opened so far. Got 3 legendaries and 2 were duds. :sad: And my free legendary was a worthless Warrior ETC thing. :bigfrown:

shergak

105 packs opened.

7 legendaries:
- Yogg
- N'zoth
- Il'gynoth
- Greybough
- Kiri
- Nameless One
- Rinlings Rifle

Free legendary was Deck of Lunacy.

forty

ronzo wrote: »

Also, the bonus XP from future events is kind of bullshit as well.

Events already used to give extra rewards, in the form of extra packs, dust, or gold. I would have certainly hoped the new system would have given SOMETHING for participating in the event over the normal reward structure.

The extra 1350 gold is the only bone they are throwing us, the "you didnt factor in the event XP!" is barely a cover at all.

Yeah, the whole "the events will make up the difference in your math!" thing is incredibly specious, because everyone was already excluding events from the income generated under the old system, and the difference was already around 3k gold. It's going to take more than +1350 on the track and "oh during Winter Veil quests will be worth twice as much!" to course correct this mess they've put us all in.

Lest people think I'm negative about everything, I will say I am glad that they have finally fixed legendary quests eating up daily quest slots by giving them their own space. It shouldn't have taken this long, but I am happy to see it.

forty

I'm debating how many packs to buy with my gold tonight. I have enough to buy 100, like I did with the last expansion or two, but knowing that I'll need to dump some more gold into packs in January/February makes me feel like maybe I should save a bit more for then.

Anyone who's played yet today, are there any legendary quests coinciding with the start of this expansion?

Yilias

I didn't get any special quests.

zepherin

Looks like Oops All Paladins is going to be viable again.

emnmnme

Boooooo, a Warlock used that ticket taker legendary and ate 5 of my cards. And he cloned it and at 5 more. Then on turn 10, he played Y'Shaarj and ate 10 more cards out of my deck.

MNC Dover

I just watched Kibler buy $210 in packs (3x$70 sets) while sitting on 121,000 gold. He's roleplaying this dragon gold hoarding thing to the extreme.

zepherin

Adding in High Exarch Yrel and a Hammer of the Naaru has just been savage.

Beasteh

### Tickatus
# Class: Warlock
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Phoenix
#
# 2x (1) Plague of Flames
# 2x (1) Spirit Jailer
# 2x (2) Mo'arg Artificer
# 2x (2) Nether Breath
# 2x (2) Soul Shear
# 2x (3) Dragonblight Cultist
# 2x (3) School Spirits
# 2x (4) Cascading Disaster
# 2x (4) Devoted Maniac
# 2x (4) Veiled Worshipper
# 2x (5) Crazed Netherwing
# 2x (5) Shield of Galakrond
# 1x (6) Kronx Dragonhoof
# 1x (6) Tickatus
# 1x (7) Galakrond, the Wretched
# 1x (7) Soulciologist Malicia
# 1x (9) Alexstrasza
# 1x (10) Y'Shaarj, the Defiler
#
AAECAcn1AgbFBOO0A/G/A8/SA/zeA87hAwydqQPlrAPorAPqrAPsrAP+rgOqrwPpvgOsywPM0gPN0gPG3gMA
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

this is kicking ass and i feel like it can easily be refined

ronzo

The Judge wrote: »

I am in serious trouble of breaking the no-crafting-on-day-1 rule for Il'gynoth and the Hunter rifle.

Il'gynoth seems like a fairly safe craft, as long as you like playing Soul DH.

I went ahead and crafted that and the paladin demon. I got lucky with 2 of my 3 legendaries and pulled Yrel and the hunter weapon. Going to try no-neutral dude paladin and new Soul DH

ObiFett

emnmnme wrote: »

47 packs opened so far. Got 3 legendaries and 2 were duds. :sad: And my free legendary was a worthless Warrior ETC thing. :bigfrown:

It could always be worse. It took me 80 packs to get the same number of legendaries.

ObiFett

Played a Warlock that used the new "mill 5" legendary and the other legendary that returns corrupted cards. Feels real bad to watch 10 cards get milled.

edit: oh, yeah, its the deck Beasteh posted above. That deck suuuucks to play against

Beasteh

yeah thats what i am doing and it absolutely dismantles control decks

kind of gets hand size issues and is reliant on tickatus not being an anchor in your deck

i would actually hard mull for him if you know you are vs control

emnmnme

Make Tickatus cost 9 10 11 mana.

ObiFett

Beasteh wrote: »

yeah thats what i am doing and it absolutely dismantles control decks

kind of gets hand size issues and is reliant on tickatus not being an anchor in your deck

i would actually hard mull for him if you know you are vs control

Can it handle fast aggro?

Yilias

I saw Dog playing a more top heavy version with Twisting Nether and Strongman and he kept getting aggroed down. A more midrange list like Beasteh's probably handles that a lot better.