A lot of the game is tied to framerate. It aint easy to fix.
it kind of is tho
DS3 had the same issue and was patched to fix it. a youtuber that does a lot of technical stuff/cut content for souls was able to backport the DS3 patch to work for bloodborne with no major issues, with the only limitation being the need to lower resolution on ps4/pro.
I've seen that before and I looked into it and he had a lot of issues. Which is why I know that so much is tied to framerate, cos so much of what he had to fix was because of these issues. That patch and the numerous revisions he had to do to get it working is why I know this. So if you turn around and go "but it was patched" its like, yes, I know. You have taken my proof and used it for your proof. You are talking about this patch after he's already sorted out all the things that were tied to framerate.
In any case fixing it would not use his patch, period. They'd do their own work on it, and that's more than just flipping a 60fps switch, as the history of his own patch shows. They clearly don't want to put in the time to do that.
Especially given that they aren't just a patcher who can release his work anyway as good enough. They would have to go through Sony's extremely picky certification process.
Removing Bloodborne‘s 30fps cap was an immense amount of work. In the video below, McDonald explains how it was only possible by analysing the PS4 Pro enhancement update for Dark Souls 3. From there, McDonald then back-ported the game’s use of delta time into Bloodborne.
It works “across the majority” of the Bloodborne campaign, and the expansion, without issue. Some effects, particles, elevator movement and more requires manual patching to function as normal, although the cut scenes automatically worked perfectly with the higher frame rate.
One of the bigger headaches was the cloth physics, which weren’t functioning properly under the higher frame rate. McDonald eventually got it working by using a network test version of Bloodborne. That had its own Havok physics debugger built in, allowing the Australian to troubleshoot the issues within a couple of days.
He doesn’t expect that the PS5 version of the game will target 60 FPS unless a developer has specifically sat down to re-engineer the game, similar to what McDonald did. “You can’t just throw more power at the game,” McDonald said.
A lot of these other 60fps patches are as simple as just telling it to output 60fps and it works. Bloodborne requires an actual dev, and that's clearly something they're not willing to do.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I don't think all video game women need to be hot, but her new face is just ... weird.
I hate that gamergaters and incels have made this their thing because fuck them, but it’s also just like yeah, I don’t understand.
I haven’t looked up any info on the games setting and story cos I want to go in fresh, but is it set years after the first game and she’s much older or sicker or something?
I hate being all about looks and everything but when you’ve spent 80 hours looking at a characters face to have it look so weirdly different in the next game is off putting. It’s like she’s older and put on weight, which fine, that can happen, but it also looks like a distinctly different face and not like a more realistic or better rendered one, just a different humans face. Like it doesn’t look any more detailed or realistic, so it’s not a consequence of better tech, it just looks like alloys sister or something
It’s not the end of the world, it just will take some getting used to cos I played the first one so recently
A lot of the game is tied to framerate. It aint easy to fix.
it kind of is tho
DS3 had the same issue and was patched to fix it. a youtuber that does a lot of technical stuff/cut content for souls was able to backport the DS3 patch to work for bloodborne with no major issues, with the only limitation being the need to lower resolution on ps4/pro.
I've seen that before and I looked into it and he had a lot of issues. Which is why I know that so much is tied to framerate, cos so much of what he had to fix was because of these issues. That patch and the numerous revisions he had to do to get it working is why I know this. So if you turn around and go "but it was patched" its like, yes, I know. You have taken my proof and used it for your proof. You are talking about this patch after he's already sorted out all the things that were tied to framerate.
In any case fixing it would not use his patch, period. They'd do their own work on it, and that's more than just flipping a 60fps switch, as the history of his own patch shows. They clearly don't want to put in the time to do that.
Especially given that they aren't just a patcher who can release his work anyway as good enough. They would have to go through Sony's extremely picky certification process.
Removing Bloodborne‘s 30fps cap was an immense amount of work. In the video below, McDonald explains how it was only possible by analysing the PS4 Pro enhancement update for Dark Souls 3. From there, McDonald then back-ported the game’s use of delta time into Bloodborne.
It works “across the majority” of the Bloodborne campaign, and the expansion, without issue. Some effects, particles, elevator movement and more requires manual patching to function as normal, although the cut scenes automatically worked perfectly with the higher frame rate.
One of the bigger headaches was the cloth physics, which weren’t functioning properly under the higher frame rate. McDonald eventually got it working by using a network test version of Bloodborne. That had its own Havok physics debugger built in, allowing the Australian to troubleshoot the issues within a couple of days.
He doesn’t expect that the PS5 version of the game will target 60 FPS unless a developer has specifically sat down to re-engineer the game, similar to what McDonald did. “You can’t just throw more power at the game,” McDonald said.
A lot of these other 60fps patches are as simple as just telling it to output 60fps and it works. Bloodborne requires an actual dev, and that's clearly something they're not willing to do.
Is Bloodborne at least a stable 30 on ps5? I remember there were a handful of areas on my launch PS4 with noticeable dips :?
A lot of the game is tied to framerate. It aint easy to fix.
it kind of is tho
DS3 had the same issue and was patched to fix it. a youtuber that does a lot of technical stuff/cut content for souls was able to backport the DS3 patch to work for bloodborne with no major issues, with the only limitation being the need to lower resolution on ps4/pro.
I've seen that before and I looked into it and he had a lot of issues. Which is why I know that so much is tied to framerate, cos so much of what he had to fix was because of these issues. That patch and the numerous revisions he had to do to get it working is why I know this. So if you turn around and go "but it was patched" its like, yes, I know. You have taken my proof and used it for your proof. You are talking about this patch after he's already sorted out all the things that were tied to framerate.
In any case fixing it would not use his patch, period. They'd do their own work on it, and that's more than just flipping a 60fps switch, as the history of his own patch shows. They clearly don't want to put in the time to do that.
Especially given that they aren't just a patcher who can release his work anyway as good enough. They would have to go through Sony's extremely picky certification process.
Removing Bloodborne‘s 30fps cap was an immense amount of work. In the video below, McDonald explains how it was only possible by analysing the PS4 Pro enhancement update for Dark Souls 3. From there, McDonald then back-ported the game’s use of delta time into Bloodborne.
It works “across the majority” of the Bloodborne campaign, and the expansion, without issue. Some effects, particles, elevator movement and more requires manual patching to function as normal, although the cut scenes automatically worked perfectly with the higher frame rate.
One of the bigger headaches was the cloth physics, which weren’t functioning properly under the higher frame rate. McDonald eventually got it working by using a network test version of Bloodborne. That had its own Havok physics debugger built in, allowing the Australian to troubleshoot the issues within a couple of days.
He doesn’t expect that the PS5 version of the game will target 60 FPS unless a developer has specifically sat down to re-engineer the game, similar to what McDonald did. “You can’t just throw more power at the game,” McDonald said.
A lot of these other 60fps patches are as simple as just telling it to output 60fps and it works. Bloodborne requires an actual dev, and that's clearly something they're not willing to do.
Is Bloodborne at least a stable 30 on ps5? I remember there were a handful of areas on my launch PS4 with noticeable dips :?
Yes. It still has bad framepacing but the framerate is a fixed 30fps.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
A lot of the game is tied to framerate. It aint easy to fix.
it kind of is tho
DS3 had the same issue and was patched to fix it. a youtuber that does a lot of technical stuff/cut content for souls was able to backport the DS3 patch to work for bloodborne with no major issues, with the only limitation being the need to lower resolution on ps4/pro.
I've seen that before and I looked into it and he had a lot of issues. Which is why I know that so much is tied to framerate, cos so much of what he had to fix was because of these issues. That patch and the numerous revisions he had to do to get it working is why I know this. So if you turn around and go "but it was patched" its like, yes, I know. You have taken my proof and used it for your proof. You are talking about this patch after he's already sorted out all the things that were tied to framerate.
In any case fixing it would not use his patch, period. They'd do their own work on it, and that's more than just flipping a 60fps switch, as the history of his own patch shows. They clearly don't want to put in the time to do that.
Especially given that they aren't just a patcher who can release his work anyway as good enough. They would have to go through Sony's extremely picky certification process.
Removing Bloodborne‘s 30fps cap was an immense amount of work. In the video below, McDonald explains how it was only possible by analysing the PS4 Pro enhancement update for Dark Souls 3. From there, McDonald then back-ported the game’s use of delta time into Bloodborne.
It works “across the majority” of the Bloodborne campaign, and the expansion, without issue. Some effects, particles, elevator movement and more requires manual patching to function as normal, although the cut scenes automatically worked perfectly with the higher frame rate.
One of the bigger headaches was the cloth physics, which weren’t functioning properly under the higher frame rate. McDonald eventually got it working by using a network test version of Bloodborne. That had its own Havok physics debugger built in, allowing the Australian to troubleshoot the issues within a couple of days.
He doesn’t expect that the PS5 version of the game will target 60 FPS unless a developer has specifically sat down to re-engineer the game, similar to what McDonald did. “You can’t just throw more power at the game,” McDonald said.
A lot of these other 60fps patches are as simple as just telling it to output 60fps and it works. Bloodborne requires an actual dev, and that's clearly something they're not willing to do.
well yeah it was a lot of work for like, one hobbyist using essentially improvised tools
i'm suggesting that this patch should be relatively easy to make because they've already made it before for a different game. we already know the tech is applicable between both games. it's not a question of difficulty, or whether it's possible or not, it's entirely down to the companies involved not wanting to spend any more money
Elendil on
0
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
A lot of the game is tied to framerate. It aint easy to fix.
it kind of is tho
DS3 had the same issue and was patched to fix it. a youtuber that does a lot of technical stuff/cut content for souls was able to backport the DS3 patch to work for bloodborne with no major issues, with the only limitation being the need to lower resolution on ps4/pro.
I've seen that before and I looked into it and he had a lot of issues. Which is why I know that so much is tied to framerate, cos so much of what he had to fix was because of these issues. That patch and the numerous revisions he had to do to get it working is why I know this. So if you turn around and go "but it was patched" its like, yes, I know. You have taken my proof and used it for your proof. You are talking about this patch after he's already sorted out all the things that were tied to framerate.
In any case fixing it would not use his patch, period. They'd do their own work on it, and that's more than just flipping a 60fps switch, as the history of his own patch shows. They clearly don't want to put in the time to do that.
Especially given that they aren't just a patcher who can release his work anyway as good enough. They would have to go through Sony's extremely picky certification process.
Removing Bloodborne‘s 30fps cap was an immense amount of work. In the video below, McDonald explains how it was only possible by analysing the PS4 Pro enhancement update for Dark Souls 3. From there, McDonald then back-ported the game’s use of delta time into Bloodborne.
It works “across the majority” of the Bloodborne campaign, and the expansion, without issue. Some effects, particles, elevator movement and more requires manual patching to function as normal, although the cut scenes automatically worked perfectly with the higher frame rate.
One of the bigger headaches was the cloth physics, which weren’t functioning properly under the higher frame rate. McDonald eventually got it working by using a network test version of Bloodborne. That had its own Havok physics debugger built in, allowing the Australian to troubleshoot the issues within a couple of days.
He doesn’t expect that the PS5 version of the game will target 60 FPS unless a developer has specifically sat down to re-engineer the game, similar to what McDonald did. “You can’t just throw more power at the game,” McDonald said.
A lot of these other 60fps patches are as simple as just telling it to output 60fps and it works. Bloodborne requires an actual dev, and that's clearly something they're not willing to do.
well yeah it was a lot of work for like, one hobbyist using essentially improvised tools
i'm suggesting that this patch should be relatively easy to make because they've already made it before for a different game. we already know the tech is applicable between both games. it's not a question of difficulty, or whether it's possible or not, it's entirely down to the companies involved not wanting to spend any more money
and im saying its not easy, its actually hard, and that is why they aren't likely to want to do it.
Which you are turning into "but that's easy" via logic I do not follow. Even the guy who did it, who knows more about the guts of the game than both of us, has said it is hard. But apparently that makes it easy? How?
Like he applied the tech from that ds3 patch and it still broke stuff he had to manually fix. This seems to be something that isn't sinking in. No, they can't just add the ds3 fix. That is not enough.
It is not like just doing what they did before. They have to reengineer an older engine to work. It's not just ds3 again. Something being on the same engine doesn't mean its the same game. The ds3 game will have had changes to its engine during the process of making the game. It's an updated engine, it is not the same. Changes Bloodborne didn't have, which is why just using the ds3 patch broke stuff. It's not actually as easy as you are saying it is.
Could they do it? Yes, of course. Of course they could. There's no technical barrier. Is it easy? No. No it is not. It will cost money and time, because it is hard, and so far they haven't wanted to pay for it.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
we are saying the exact same thing, you're saying "they would have to spend money" and i'm saying "yeah, spend the money"
it's relevant to point out that a fan patch exists because it suggests that not a lot of money or personnel needs to be devoted to the thing to make it happen
Elendil on
+1
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited August 2021
Sure but where does that personnel come from. Say it takes two weeks for a dev that worked on the original game, probably a core engine developer. A dev that was working on sekiro. And now Elden ring. So whatever that dev was working on for that game, its now pushed back two weeks. Obviously that's out, and is not going to happen.
So when does it happen? An unconnected dev? Maybe contracted by sony? Now he's in the same position as the modder, and it takes a few months, because all the devs who actually worked on that code are busy. So now its more money, and it isn't easy anymore. Ok how about more devs? Ok now you are paying two devs. Where'd the second dev come from?
Where's the logistics of actually making the patch come in, actually doing the work. When does that factor into this "they could they just wont".
This is why I'm saying patches that are easy come out, and patches that requires a lot more work, are much less likely. There is difficulty here that actually impacts on decisions made when deciding on development. That can change whether something gets made at all.
There's also the fact that even if there are small problems in this guys patch, that doesn't really matter. But that does not fly for an official patch. It needs to be re-certified by Sony. It's a heavily involved process. That's even more people.
You are kinda just sweeping all this back end under the rug cos a dude in his own time, unpaid, went and did something as a hobby, taking as long as is needed. Start doing the same stuff officially suddenly a lot more people are involved, and it isn't easy anymore. And that can kill something that looks, on the surface, "easy".
Look I want this as much as anyone does. But if it was really that easy, it would have happened by now. They're not idiots. They really aren't. They know how popular the game is.
By all means keep putting pressure and demand on them to do it. That might lead to something!
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I don't think all video game women need to be hot, but her new face is just ... weird.
I legitimately don't understand this complaint. She doesn't look much different than her HZD1 look (and she sure as heck grew in to that forehead from her childhood. . .sheesh). Personally I like this direction that studios like GG and Naughty Dog are going in that characters are allowed to look "different. . ." and not adhere to easy beauty standards.
. . .of course then you have to deal with places like NeoGaf grousing that Aloy is now a "fatty" or that Abby is basically a dude because neither gets them half-chubbed up, so it's kind of a lose-lose?
That said, surprise patch is surprising and I tried with the PC version but my hardware just wasn't up to snuff so I guess it's another go through on PS5 (and this time I WILL get past the Sun City).
Sure but where does that personnel come from. Say it takes two weeks for a dev that worked on the original game, probably a core engine developer. A dev that was working on sekiro. And now Elden ring. So whatever that dev was working on for that game, its now pushed back two weeks. Obviously that's out, and is not going to happen.
So when does it happen? An unconnected dev? Maybe contracted by sony? Now he's in the same position as the modder, and it takes a few months, because all the devs who actually worked on that code are busy. So now its more money, and it isn't easy anymore. Ok how about more devs? Ok now you are paying two devs. Where'd the second dev come from?
Where's the logistics of actually making the patch come in, actually doing the work. When does that factor into this "they could they just wont".
This is why I'm saying patches that are easy come out, and patches that requires a lot more work, are much less likely. There is difficulty here that actually impacts on decisions made when deciding on development. That can change whether something gets made at all.
There's also the fact that even if there are small problems in this guys patch, that doesn't really matter. But that does not fly for an official patch. It needs to be re-certified by Sony. It's a heavily involved process. That's even more people.
You are kinda just sweeping all this back end under the rug cos a dude in his own time, unpaid, went and did something as a hobby, taking as long as is needed. Start doing the same stuff officially suddenly a lot more people are involved, and it isn't easy anymore. And that can kill something that looks, on the surface, "easy".
Look I want this as much as anyone does. But if it was really that easy, it would have happened by now. They're not idiots. They really aren't. They know how popular the game is.
By all means keep putting pressure and demand on them to do it. That might lead to something!
There's a gap in the way you've written this. The gap is between "they are stupid and bad at their jobs, a child coder would be an improvement" and "the way they do their jobs is clever and efficient, the process is good and well designed". The truth as I understand it is that they are laudable professionals... using horribly outdated and out of touch game design methods out of some combination of stubbornness, tradition, and budgetary limitations. Modern game design doesn't do things like code monster attack patterns to framerates for the reasons that become obvious with higher spec machines. This is a similar discussion to how Japanese made fighting games have worse netcode than US made small team indy games. This also means that it isn't some impossible journey to fix, it's that they don't want to. For similar reasons of making the mistakes to begin with.
0
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Sure but where does that personnel come from. Say it takes two weeks for a dev that worked on the original game, probably a core engine developer. A dev that was working on sekiro. And now Elden ring. So whatever that dev was working on for that game, its now pushed back two weeks. Obviously that's out, and is not going to happen.
So when does it happen? An unconnected dev? Maybe contracted by sony? Now he's in the same position as the modder, and it takes a few months, because all the devs who actually worked on that code are busy. So now its more money, and it isn't easy anymore. Ok how about more devs? Ok now you are paying two devs. Where'd the second dev come from?
Where's the logistics of actually making the patch come in, actually doing the work. When does that factor into this "they could they just wont".
This is why I'm saying patches that are easy come out, and patches that requires a lot more work, are much less likely. There is difficulty here that actually impacts on decisions made when deciding on development. That can change whether something gets made at all.
There's also the fact that even if there are small problems in this guys patch, that doesn't really matter. But that does not fly for an official patch. It needs to be re-certified by Sony. It's a heavily involved process. That's even more people.
You are kinda just sweeping all this back end under the rug cos a dude in his own time, unpaid, went and did something as a hobby, taking as long as is needed. Start doing the same stuff officially suddenly a lot more people are involved, and it isn't easy anymore. And that can kill something that looks, on the surface, "easy".
Look I want this as much as anyone does. But if it was really that easy, it would have happened by now. They're not idiots. They really aren't. They know how popular the game is.
By all means keep putting pressure and demand on them to do it. That might lead to something!
There's a gap in the way you've written this. The gap is between "they are stupid and bad at their jobs, a child coder would be an improvement" and "the way they do their jobs is clever and efficient, the process is good and well designed". The truth as I understand it is that they are laudable professionals... using horribly outdated and out of touch game design methods out of some combination of stubbornness, tradition, and budgetary limitations. Modern game design doesn't do things like code monster attack patterns to framerates for the reasons that become obvious with higher spec machines. This is a similar discussion to how Japanese made fighting games have worse netcode than US made small team indy games. This also means that it isn't some impossible journey to fix, it's that they don't want to. For similar reasons of making the mistakes to begin with.
That has nothing to do with my last post? Im talking about the business logistics here you are still talking as if I said it isnt technically possible.
They've clearly learnt their lesson since Bb cos Sekiro does 60fps naturally.
This is a conversation about the business logistics of fixing legacy code.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Sure but where does that personnel come from. Say it takes two weeks for a dev that worked on the original game, probably a core engine developer. A dev that was working on sekiro. And now Elden ring. So whatever that dev was working on for that game, its now pushed back two weeks. Obviously that's out, and is not going to happen.
So when does it happen? An unconnected dev? Maybe contracted by sony? Now he's in the same position as the modder, and it takes a few months, because all the devs who actually worked on that code are busy. So now its more money, and it isn't easy anymore. Ok how about more devs? Ok now you are paying two devs. Where'd the second dev come from?
Where's the logistics of actually making the patch come in, actually doing the work. When does that factor into this "they could they just wont".
This is why I'm saying patches that are easy come out, and patches that requires a lot more work, are much less likely. There is difficulty here that actually impacts on decisions made when deciding on development. That can change whether something gets made at all.
There's also the fact that even if there are small problems in this guys patch, that doesn't really matter. But that does not fly for an official patch. It needs to be re-certified by Sony. It's a heavily involved process. That's even more people.
You are kinda just sweeping all this back end under the rug cos a dude in his own time, unpaid, went and did something as a hobby, taking as long as is needed. Start doing the same stuff officially suddenly a lot more people are involved, and it isn't easy anymore. And that can kill something that looks, on the surface, "easy".
Look I want this as much as anyone does. But if it was really that easy, it would have happened by now. They're not idiots. They really aren't. They know how popular the game is.
By all means keep putting pressure and demand on them to do it. That might lead to something!
There's a gap in the way you've written this. The gap is between "they are stupid and bad at their jobs, a child coder would be an improvement" and "the way they do their jobs is clever and efficient, the process is good and well designed". The truth as I understand it is that they are laudable professionals... using horribly outdated and out of touch game design methods out of some combination of stubbornness, tradition, and budgetary limitations. Modern game design doesn't do things like code monster attack patterns to framerates for the reasons that become obvious with higher spec machines. This is a similar discussion to how Japanese made fighting games have worse netcode than US made small team indy games. This also means that it isn't some impossible journey to fix, it's that they don't want to. For similar reasons of making the mistakes to begin with.
That has nothing to do with my last post? Im talking about the business logistics here you are still talking as if I said it isnt technically possible.
They've clearly learnt their lesson since Bb cos Sekiro accepts 60fps naturally.
This is a conversation about the business logistics of fixing legacy code.
Things like Dark Souls Remaster show that their approach to improving games is also regressive. If there was a WILL to fix the issue, all of the stuff you're talking about is incredibly small potatoes.
I don't know if I'd pay for a Bloodborne remaster. Right now my thought on the game is it's good, I had a fun time with it, but I beat it and platinumed it and I'm done with it. I don't think a shinier version would make me want to go back and replay it. I'd rather have a Bloodborne 2.
Sure but where does that personnel come from. Say it takes two weeks for a dev that worked on the original game, probably a core engine developer. A dev that was working on sekiro. And now Elden ring. So whatever that dev was working on for that game, its now pushed back two weeks. Obviously that's out, and is not going to happen.
So when does it happen? An unconnected dev? Maybe contracted by sony? Now he's in the same position as the modder, and it takes a few months, because all the devs who actually worked on that code are busy. So now its more money, and it isn't easy anymore. Ok how about more devs? Ok now you are paying two devs. Where'd the second dev come from?
Where's the logistics of actually making the patch come in, actually doing the work. When does that factor into this "they could they just wont".
This is why I'm saying patches that are easy come out, and patches that requires a lot more work, are much less likely. There is difficulty here that actually impacts on decisions made when deciding on development. That can change whether something gets made at all.
There's also the fact that even if there are small problems in this guys patch, that doesn't really matter. But that does not fly for an official patch. It needs to be re-certified by Sony. It's a heavily involved process. That's even more people.
You are kinda just sweeping all this back end under the rug cos a dude in his own time, unpaid, went and did something as a hobby, taking as long as is needed. Start doing the same stuff officially suddenly a lot more people are involved, and it isn't easy anymore. And that can kill something that looks, on the surface, "easy".
Look I want this as much as anyone does. But if it was really that easy, it would have happened by now. They're not idiots. They really aren't. They know how popular the game is.
By all means keep putting pressure and demand on them to do it. That might lead to something!
There's a gap in the way you've written this. The gap is between "they are stupid and bad at their jobs, a child coder would be an improvement" and "the way they do their jobs is clever and efficient, the process is good and well designed". The truth as I understand it is that they are laudable professionals... using horribly outdated and out of touch game design methods out of some combination of stubbornness, tradition, and budgetary limitations. Modern game design doesn't do things like code monster attack patterns to framerates for the reasons that become obvious with higher spec machines. This is a similar discussion to how Japanese made fighting games have worse netcode than US made small team indy games. This also means that it isn't some impossible journey to fix, it's that they don't want to. For similar reasons of making the mistakes to begin with.
That has nothing to do with my last post? Im talking about the business logistics here you are still talking as if I said it isnt technically possible.
They've clearly learnt their lesson since Bb cos Sekiro accepts 60fps naturally.
This is a conversation about the business logistics of fixing legacy code.
Things like Dark Souls Remaster show that their approach to improving games is also regressive. If there was a WILL to fix the issue, all of the stuff you're talking about is incredibly small potatoes.
If you say so. This is going in circles so Im out.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I don't think all video game women need to be hot, but her new face is just ... weird.
I legitimately don't understand this complaint. She doesn't look much different than her HZD1 look (and she sure as heck grew in to that forehead from her childhood. . .sheesh). Personally I like this direction that studios like GG and Naughty Dog are going in that characters are allowed to look "different. . ." and not adhere to easy beauty standards.
. . .of course then you have to deal with places like NeoGaf grousing that Aloy is now a "fatty" or that Abby is basically a dude because neither gets them half-chubbed up, so it's kind of a lose-lose?
Again, I don't care if Aloy is hot or not. I'm cool with Abby because her face matches her body. It doesn't look weird. Aloy looks weird.
+1
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited August 2021
I honestly have no idea what people are talking about with Aloy looking bad. She was in her late teens in the original, now she's older. She lives a harsh life with no modern comforts and something like makeup, which we've seen exist to some extent, has no place at all in her existence. People look different as they get older! Shock and surprise!
Not to mention they actually bothered to give her actual clothing instead of standard bikini armor, so she looks like somebody dressed for saving the world instead of cosplay pinup or something. Her clothes are made to protect her from the elements and enemies, not flatter her figure.
Ninja Snarl P on
+1
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Real people can have faces that dont "match" their body. Whatever that means.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I don't think all video game women need to be hot, but her new face is just ... weird.
I legitimately don't understand this complaint. She doesn't look much different than her HZD1 look (and she sure as heck grew in to that forehead from her childhood. . .sheesh). Personally I like this direction that studios like GG and Naughty Dog are going in that characters are allowed to look "different. . ." and not adhere to easy beauty standards.
. . .of course then you have to deal with places like NeoGaf grousing that Aloy is now a "fatty" or that Abby is basically a dude because neither gets them half-chubbed up, so it's kind of a lose-lose?
Again, I don't care if Aloy is hot or not. I'm cool with Abby because her face matches her body. It doesn't look weird. Aloy looks weird.
I dunno, I'm playing it now and the model in Zero Dawn looks like a younger version of the model in Forbidden West. I'm not sure how much tie has passed between the two games but Aloy I'm sure isn't even an "adult" in the first one; the second one she definitely has grown a bit more.
. . .speaking of Aloy as a kid, there are a few hitches so far and the cutscenes bounce between 30FPS in some scenes and 60 in others, but overall the game looks and plays fantastic. Looking at some of the upcoming games (Wrath of the Righteous, Diablo 2, Deathloop, Death Stranding, Far Cry 6, etc) I think pretty much every game (except Wrath) I will be playing on the PS5. Definitely paying the console tax, but having locked performance and not spending hours optimizing a game for my PC is more than worth it.
I mean, I've never seen anyone with an active lifestyle suddenly have a chubby face in the middle of their 20s. But whatever, I guess I'm actually annoyed because game girl don't make my PP hard.
I mean, I've never seen anyone with an active lifestyle suddenly have a chubby face in the middle of their 20s. But whatever, I guess I'm actually annoyed because game girl don't make my PP hard.
Sometimes, you just need to leave a game alone and not remaster it. I have seen many a game where the remaster loses the magic of the original.
That kind of happened a little with Demon Souls although some of the different takes were interesting.
Personally I would rather sequels or new games than remastering old ones. While I know the remaster of Demon Souls is apparently really good, I just don't want to go through that game again and would have rathered a new game.
Do you also assume that everyone who didn't like the face change in Spider-Man was disappointed because they wanted to fuck a fictional character? Are we really only allowed to have issues with the appearances of male characters?
+1
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited August 2021
Do you have any problems with the physical appropriateness of any male characters that have changed appearance? Did you ever write that you didn’t like the face change because “that’s not what men should look like”?
I mean, I've never seen anyone with an active lifestyle suddenly have a chubby face in the middle of their 20s. But whatever, I guess I'm actually annoyed because game girl don't make my PP hard.
Sure did. I mean that’s just one step from the “How dare she look like an actual woman” thing I see on Twitter.
Do you have any problems with the physical appropriateness of any male characters that have changed appearance? Did you ever write that you didn’t like the face change because “that’s not what men should look like”?
Yeah, the new face for Chris Redfield in RE7 sucked too. Stop arguing in bad faith, it's really aggravating to watch.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited August 2021
Edit: Nah I am really done and this is just detailing the thread.
I finally just googled Horizon Aloy face and... well I'm assuming most of this stuff is real? Because there are some images that, if you told me some were photoshopped by bad faith actors, I'd probably believe it. At least most trailers don't have shots of people breaking the 4th wall and looking at the camera, so...
Yeah, looks different. Like a different jaw structure. Weird! Oh well, who gives a hoot.
I should really sit down and go through the game. Except I'm already knee deep in Tsushima, and this feels like it might be a while.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Tsushima is pretty short relatively for an open world game. I did all of the content in the main game (not the dlc), story and all the points on the map, under 50 hours. Which is still a long ass time, but we live in a world of assassin creed 120+ hour madhouses so I found it pretty manageable
Prohass on
+4
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Tsushima is pretty short relatively for an open world game. I did all of the content in the main game (not the dlc), story and all the points on the map, under 50 hours. Which is still a long ass time, but we live in a world of assassin creed 120+ hour madhouses so I found it pretty manageable
I still don’t have the Platinum, but it is still one of the best Open World games I have ever played. It lacked that awful exhaustion factor the majority of AC games and such give me.
Yeah I'm pretty sure I got the platinum in GoT in under 50 or so hours. It wasn't bad at all and the PERFECT length for open world games.
+3
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Yeah I can only play one of those style of games a year now, where I am deciding between Infamous First Light/Second Son or going ahead and getting Red Dead Redemption 2. My main barrier to Infamous is that I never finished playing Infamous 2, so I don't know how required that game will be to understanding what's happening in Second Son.
Yeah I can only play one of those style of games a year now, where I am deciding between Infamous First Light/Second Son or going ahead and getting Red Dead Redemption 2. My main barrier to Infamous is that I never finished playing Infamous 2, so I don't know how required that game will be to understanding what's happening in Second Son.
Not at all. I don't think I played the early Infamous's because I was on Xbox at the time but Second Son/First Light were fun.
Be warned that RDR2 is pretty firm about being an actual cowboy simulator instead of a action game. There are absolutely shooty bits but the game has a very deliberate pace to it. This leads to it feeling almost like a genuine experience but I'm not convinced it makes it a great game.
Yeah I can only play one of those style of games a year now, where I am deciding between Infamous First Light/Second Son or going ahead and getting Red Dead Redemption 2. My main barrier to Infamous is that I never finished playing Infamous 2, so I don't know how required that game will be to understanding what's happening in Second Son.
Be warned that RDR2 is pretty firm about being an actual cowboy simulator instead of a action game. There are absolutely shooty bits but the game has a very deliberate pace to it. This leads to it feeling almost like a genuine experience but I'm not convinced it makes it a great game.
That's a great way to put it. To me it nutshells like "RDR2 is more interested in its presentation than its play, and its presentation is immaculate."
Chance on
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
+2
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
I've gotten into a little VR binge recently and played through and beat Batman VR and Psychonauts Rhombus of Ruin. Both were fun but quite simple and short.
I think Psychonauts was the better game, as Batman was mainly just a quick setpiece experience. Not unhappy with them though as I had a lot of fun with both. Glad I got them both at discount though, as they were a bit too short for the original asking price. Now I need to play through Iron Man.
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I've seen that before and I looked into it and he had a lot of issues. Which is why I know that so much is tied to framerate, cos so much of what he had to fix was because of these issues. That patch and the numerous revisions he had to do to get it working is why I know this. So if you turn around and go "but it was patched" its like, yes, I know. You have taken my proof and used it for your proof. You are talking about this patch after he's already sorted out all the things that were tied to framerate.
In any case fixing it would not use his patch, period. They'd do their own work on it, and that's more than just flipping a 60fps switch, as the history of his own patch shows. They clearly don't want to put in the time to do that.
Especially given that they aren't just a patcher who can release his work anyway as good enough. They would have to go through Sony's extremely picky certification process.
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2020/12/bloodborne-60-fps-patch-ps4-pro/
A lot of these other 60fps patches are as simple as just telling it to output 60fps and it works. Bloodborne requires an actual dev, and that's clearly something they're not willing to do.
I hate that gamergaters and incels have made this their thing because fuck them, but it’s also just like yeah, I don’t understand.
I haven’t looked up any info on the games setting and story cos I want to go in fresh, but is it set years after the first game and she’s much older or sicker or something?
I hate being all about looks and everything but when you’ve spent 80 hours looking at a characters face to have it look so weirdly different in the next game is off putting. It’s like she’s older and put on weight, which fine, that can happen, but it also looks like a distinctly different face and not like a more realistic or better rendered one, just a different humans face. Like it doesn’t look any more detailed or realistic, so it’s not a consequence of better tech, it just looks like alloys sister or something
It’s not the end of the world, it just will take some getting used to cos I played the first one so recently
Is Bloodborne at least a stable 30 on ps5? I remember there were a handful of areas on my launch PS4 with noticeable dips :?
Yes. It still has bad framepacing but the framerate is a fixed 30fps.
i'm suggesting that this patch should be relatively easy to make because they've already made it before for a different game. we already know the tech is applicable between both games. it's not a question of difficulty, or whether it's possible or not, it's entirely down to the companies involved not wanting to spend any more money
and im saying its not easy, its actually hard, and that is why they aren't likely to want to do it.
Which you are turning into "but that's easy" via logic I do not follow. Even the guy who did it, who knows more about the guts of the game than both of us, has said it is hard. But apparently that makes it easy? How?
Like he applied the tech from that ds3 patch and it still broke stuff he had to manually fix. This seems to be something that isn't sinking in. No, they can't just add the ds3 fix. That is not enough.
It is not like just doing what they did before. They have to reengineer an older engine to work. It's not just ds3 again. Something being on the same engine doesn't mean its the same game. The ds3 game will have had changes to its engine during the process of making the game. It's an updated engine, it is not the same. Changes Bloodborne didn't have, which is why just using the ds3 patch broke stuff. It's not actually as easy as you are saying it is.
Could they do it? Yes, of course. Of course they could. There's no technical barrier. Is it easy? No. No it is not. It will cost money and time, because it is hard, and so far they haven't wanted to pay for it.
it's relevant to point out that a fan patch exists because it suggests that not a lot of money or personnel needs to be devoted to the thing to make it happen
So when does it happen? An unconnected dev? Maybe contracted by sony? Now he's in the same position as the modder, and it takes a few months, because all the devs who actually worked on that code are busy. So now its more money, and it isn't easy anymore. Ok how about more devs? Ok now you are paying two devs. Where'd the second dev come from?
Where's the logistics of actually making the patch come in, actually doing the work. When does that factor into this "they could they just wont".
This is why I'm saying patches that are easy come out, and patches that requires a lot more work, are much less likely. There is difficulty here that actually impacts on decisions made when deciding on development. That can change whether something gets made at all.
There's also the fact that even if there are small problems in this guys patch, that doesn't really matter. But that does not fly for an official patch. It needs to be re-certified by Sony. It's a heavily involved process. That's even more people.
You are kinda just sweeping all this back end under the rug cos a dude in his own time, unpaid, went and did something as a hobby, taking as long as is needed. Start doing the same stuff officially suddenly a lot more people are involved, and it isn't easy anymore. And that can kill something that looks, on the surface, "easy".
Look I want this as much as anyone does. But if it was really that easy, it would have happened by now. They're not idiots. They really aren't. They know how popular the game is.
By all means keep putting pressure and demand on them to do it. That might lead to something!
I legitimately don't understand this complaint. She doesn't look much different than her HZD1 look (and she sure as heck grew in to that forehead from her childhood. . .sheesh). Personally I like this direction that studios like GG and Naughty Dog are going in that characters are allowed to look "different. . ." and not adhere to easy beauty standards.
. . .of course then you have to deal with places like NeoGaf grousing that Aloy is now a "fatty" or that Abby is basically a dude because neither gets them half-chubbed up, so it's kind of a lose-lose?
That said, surprise patch is surprising and I tried with the PC version but my hardware just wasn't up to snuff so I guess it's another go through on PS5 (and this time I WILL get past the Sun City).
There's a gap in the way you've written this. The gap is between "they are stupid and bad at their jobs, a child coder would be an improvement" and "the way they do their jobs is clever and efficient, the process is good and well designed". The truth as I understand it is that they are laudable professionals... using horribly outdated and out of touch game design methods out of some combination of stubbornness, tradition, and budgetary limitations. Modern game design doesn't do things like code monster attack patterns to framerates for the reasons that become obvious with higher spec machines. This is a similar discussion to how Japanese made fighting games have worse netcode than US made small team indy games. This also means that it isn't some impossible journey to fix, it's that they don't want to. For similar reasons of making the mistakes to begin with.
That has nothing to do with my last post? Im talking about the business logistics here you are still talking as if I said it isnt technically possible.
They've clearly learnt their lesson since Bb cos Sekiro does 60fps naturally.
This is a conversation about the business logistics of fixing legacy code.
Things like Dark Souls Remaster show that their approach to improving games is also regressive. If there was a WILL to fix the issue, all of the stuff you're talking about is incredibly small potatoes.
If you say so. This is going in circles so Im out.
Again, I don't care if Aloy is hot or not. I'm cool with Abby because her face matches her body. It doesn't look weird. Aloy looks weird.
Not to mention they actually bothered to give her actual clothing instead of standard bikini armor, so she looks like somebody dressed for saving the world instead of cosplay pinup or something. Her clothes are made to protect her from the elements and enemies, not flatter her figure.
I dunno, I'm playing it now and the model in Zero Dawn looks like a younger version of the model in Forbidden West. I'm not sure how much tie has passed between the two games but Aloy I'm sure isn't even an "adult" in the first one; the second one she definitely has grown a bit more.
. . .speaking of Aloy as a kid, there are a few hitches so far and the cutscenes bounce between 30FPS in some scenes and 60 in others, but overall the game looks and plays fantastic. Looking at some of the upcoming games (Wrath of the Righteous, Diablo 2, Deathloop, Death Stranding, Far Cry 6, etc) I think pretty much every game (except Wrath) I will be playing on the PS5. Definitely paying the console tax, but having locked performance and not spending hours optimizing a game for my PC is more than worth it.
That kind of happened a little with Demon Souls although some of the different takes were interesting.
It's the way it comes off, yes.
Personally I would rather sequels or new games than remastering old ones. While I know the remaster of Demon Souls is apparently really good, I just don't want to go through that game again and would have rathered a new game.
Do you also assume that everyone who didn't like the face change in Spider-Man was disappointed because they wanted to fuck a fictional character? Are we really only allowed to have issues with the appearances of male characters?
Sure did. I mean that’s just one step from the “How dare she look like an actual woman” thing I see on Twitter.
I am done with this conversation btw.
Yeah, the new face for Chris Redfield in RE7 sucked too. Stop arguing in bad faith, it's really aggravating to watch.
Yeah, looks different. Like a different jaw structure. Weird! Oh well, who gives a hoot.
I should really sit down and go through the game. Except I'm already knee deep in Tsushima, and this feels like it might be a while.
I still don’t have the Platinum, but it is still one of the best Open World games I have ever played. It lacked that awful exhaustion factor the majority of AC games and such give me.
Not at all. I don't think I played the early Infamous's because I was on Xbox at the time but Second Son/First Light were fun.
Be warned that RDR2 is pretty firm about being an actual cowboy simulator instead of a action game. There are absolutely shooty bits but the game has a very deliberate pace to it. This leads to it feeling almost like a genuine experience but I'm not convinced it makes it a great game.
That's a great way to put it. To me it nutshells like "RDR2 is more interested in its presentation than its play, and its presentation is immaculate."
I think Psychonauts was the better game, as Batman was mainly just a quick setpiece experience. Not unhappy with them though as I had a lot of fun with both. Glad I got them both at discount though, as they were a bit too short for the original asking price. Now I need to play through Iron Man.
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