[US Foreign Policy] Assassinations, broken treaties and trade pacts, oh my!

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Nevermind all these cybersecurity bills, save us from Russian hackers by simply legalizing weed!

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    China seem to suck at hacking. I think one reason why Russia is so amazing at hacking is that their domestic IT company scene is dismal but they have many talented coders, so the government doesn't have the problems the USA and China does in recruiting IT security guys, who can make more in the private sector.

    I'm given to understand that the biggest thing hampering the US cyber-decision is that while there are talented amaerican hackers who would be willing to work for the government, the drug policy basically means they have to give up smoking weed which is more then they're willing to do for their nation.

    As to russia: they've had a huge edge in that trump's balls are apparently kept in putin's desk drawer and as such have been able to act with relative impunity against the US for the past 4 years and this has likely meant that their intelligence department has been able to experiment and take chances that they never would have in the past.

    My impression has always been that a big part of it is cultural as well. It never seems like western hackers or the like are interested in going full court press to defend their own national identity and are a lot more likely to be critical of their own governments and concerned with what they are up to online.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Russian hackers seem to sharpen their skills by hacking western hospitals to hold them for ransom, which most people in the USA who could pass a background check would not do.

    https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2020/11/02/589183.htm

    Shazkar Shadowstorm
  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Worst song, played on ugliest guitar Registered User regular


    CNN reporter

    Guessing we're just not going to do shit about this until after the inauguration

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    I Zimbra wrote: »


    CNN reporter

    Guessing we're just not going to do shit about this until after the inauguration

    As @Gaddez said in the last post of the previous page, "trump's balls are apparently kept in putin's desk drawer".

    I really wish we'd get a full accounting by the intelligence community about just how compromised Trump is, but I have a feeling that a complete accurate account might be destabilizing (ie, this is how close we came, and the entirety of one party was either intentionally or unintentionally complicit), and seen as partisan, at least as long as Trump isn't distanced by conservatives.

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I mean, it's the exact same thing he did 4 years ago

    Yes, but 4 years ago didn't cost me a week of fairly critical year-end work... to say nothing of the other Solarwinds customers, and to say ABSOLTUELY nothing about how much the federal government (and other governments) are going to need to do to clean this mess up.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    I Zimbra wrote: »


    CNN reporter

    Guessing we're just not going to do shit about this until after the inauguration

    I really wish we'd get a full accounting by the intelligence community about just how compromised Trump is, but I have a feeling that a complete accurate account might be destabilizing (ie, this is how close we came, and the entirety of one party was either intentionally or unintentionally complicit), and seen as partisan, at least as long as Trump isn't distanced by conservatives.

    If we shy away from investigating it because it's embarrassing we are going to be controlled by Russia forever.

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Another issue is private hacking organizations that sell their services to governments.. thus giving high level capability to countries that wouldn't normally have that kind of talent. In essence, cyber-mercenaries. Things keep getting worse and worse.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    I Zimbra wrote: »


    CNN reporter

    Guessing we're just not going to do shit about this until after the inauguration

    I really wish we'd get a full accounting by the intelligence community about just how compromised Trump is, but I have a feeling that a complete accurate account might be destabilizing (ie, this is how close we came, and the entirety of one party was either intentionally or unintentionally complicit), and seen as partisan, at least as long as Trump isn't distanced by conservatives.

    If we shy away from investigating it because it's embarrassing we are going to be controlled by Russia forever.

    Oh, I think there'll probably be an investigation, I'm just not expecting it to be fully unredacted.

    Partly because specifying exactly what Trump compromised might further compromise security (ie, Trump revealed the existence of a still classified program), and partly because they want to be taken seriously, and I bet that there's stuff Trump did, that would be rejected if a screenwriter put it in a script for a political farce movie, as "too unrealistic".

    I mean, one of the excuses given for Veep finishing it's run, was because real life was too close to what they were doing.

    I'd rather everything was laid bare, but I'm not expecting it at all.

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    A buried investigation might as well not have happened. So the FBI knows what really happened. So what? They can't challenge Russia on their own.

    CelestialBadger on
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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    China seem to suck at hacking. I think one reason why Russia is so amazing at hacking is that their domestic IT company scene is dismal but they have many talented coders, so the government doesn't have the problems the USA and China does in recruiting IT security guys, who can make more in the private sector.

    I'm given to understand that the biggest thing hampering the US cyber-decision is that while there are talented amaerican hackers who would be willing to work for the government, the drug policy basically means they have to give up smoking weed which is more then they're willing to do for their nation.

    As to russia: they've had a huge edge in that trump's balls are apparently kept in putin's desk drawer and as such have been able to act with relative impunity against the US for the past 4 years and this has likely meant that their intelligence department has been able to experiment and take chances that they never would have in the past.

    That’s part of it. It is also that the general federal security and contracting culture is parochial, nationalistic, frills free, and pretty alien to anyone who didn’t rise through the federal civil service or the military. That’s not counting the waves of paranoia and investigations after major breaches or that accidentally mishandling data or talking to the wrong person could get you brought up on federal charges.

    If you have experience in a private sector or university setting, it wouldn’t be long before you’d be polishing up the resumes to get out.

    Mosati
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    I Zimbra wrote: »


    CNN reporter

    Guessing we're just not going to do shit about this until after the inauguration

    As @Gaddez said in the last post of the previous page, "trump's balls are apparently kept in putin's desk drawer".

    I really wish we'd get a full accounting by the intelligence community about just how compromised Trump is, but I have a feeling that a complete accurate account might be destabilizing (ie, this is how close we came, and the entirety of one party was either intentionally or unintentionally complicit), and seen as partisan, at least as long as Trump isn't distanced by conservatives.

    I'm going to say the same thing I said about the FBI being worried about going after alt right groups due to how trump voters would see it: Fuck his base and do your job.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    I Zimbra wrote: »


    CNN reporter

    Guessing we're just not going to do shit about this until after the inauguration

    As @Gaddez said in the last post of the previous page, "trump's balls are apparently kept in putin's desk drawer".

    I really wish we'd get a full accounting by the intelligence community about just how compromised Trump is, but I have a feeling that a complete accurate account might be destabilizing (ie, this is how close we came, and the entirety of one party was either intentionally or unintentionally complicit), and seen as partisan, at least as long as Trump isn't distanced by conservatives.

    I'm going to say the same thing I said about the FBI being worried about going after alt right groups due to how trump voters would see it: Fuck his base and do your job.

    No-one ever spares the tender sensibilities of the left in this way. Does anyone worry that Bernie will be upset if socialist protesters are brutalized by police? Nope! But the slightest appearance of singling out the right and they suddenly come over all "fair and balanced." Which is why right-wing terror groups (militia) are springing up all over the country.

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  • HenroidHenroid Homeless Soon Enough Registered User regular
    CNN had Romney on this morning who commented of Trump, "[He] has a blind spot when it comes to Russia." Not that I'm jumping in a huge amount of joy for Romney going "AW SHIT GET HIS ASS" but it's a true statement.

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  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    CNN had Romney on this morning who commented of Trump, "[He] has a blind spot when it comes to Russia." Not that I'm jumping in a huge amount of joy for Romney going "AW SHIT GET HIS ASS" but it's a true statement.

    Disagree. Trump knows what they're doing and deliberately covers for them.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    CNN had Romney on this morning who commented of Trump, "[He] has a blind spot when it comes to Russia." Not that I'm jumping in a huge amount of joy for Romney going "AW SHIT GET HIS ASS" but it's a true statement.

    Until Romney actually does something about it, he can eat shit

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    China seem to suck at hacking. I think one reason why Russia is so amazing at hacking is that their domestic IT company scene is dismal but they have many talented coders, so the government doesn't have the problems the USA and China does in recruiting IT security guys, who can make more in the private sector.

    I'm given to understand that the biggest thing hampering the US cyber-decision is that while there are talented amaerican hackers who would be willing to work for the government, the drug policy basically means they have to give up smoking weed which is more then they're willing to do for their nation.

    As to russia: they've had a huge edge in that trump's balls are apparently kept in putin's desk drawer and as such have been able to act with relative impunity against the US for the past 4 years and this has likely meant that their intelligence department has been able to experiment and take chances that they never would have in the past.

    My impression has always been that a big part of it is cultural as well. It never seems like western hackers or the like are interested in going full court press to defend their own national identity and are a lot more likely to be critical of their own governments and concerned with what they are up to online.

    In Russia, unless you want to be on the wrong side of OSHA violations, you will protect your national identity. They also care far less about any criminal things you may have done so long as those things were not perpetrated against the Russian state.

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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    CNN had Romney on this morning who commented of Trump, "[He] has a blind spot when it comes to Russia." Not that I'm jumping in a huge amount of joy for Romney going "AW SHIT GET HIS ASS" but it's a true statement.

    Until Romney actually does something about it, he can eat shit

    I mean I hate to defend Romney, but he did vote to impeach. Which is a hell of a lot more than any other elected Republican save Amash actually did.

    I think he is trying to walk the line of destroying the party of Trump while leaving enough of the GOP to recover or maintain some power but it's a hell of a tightrope. As a Mormon he has an idea where his people fall on the list once the racists and evangelicals finish with the black and brown people. And he knows rule of law is the thing protecting them.

    I don't like the man and am thankful he lost in 2012 for sure, but a Republican Party that coalesces around him after throwing Trump out at least realizes they don't want to burn the country down because it's where they keep their stuff.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Romney has pretty much done as much as he can while still remaining a Republican. I personally think he should just go independent at this point. The Republican party hates him.

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  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    China seem to suck at hacking. I think one reason why Russia is so amazing at hacking is that their domestic IT company scene is dismal but they have many talented coders, so the government doesn't have the problems the USA and China does in recruiting IT security guys, who can make more in the private sector.

    I'm given to understand that the biggest thing hampering the US cyber-decision is that while there are talented amaerican hackers who would be willing to work for the government, the drug policy basically means they have to give up smoking weed which is more then they're willing to do for their nation.

    As to russia: they've had a huge edge in that trump's balls are apparently kept in putin's desk drawer and as such have been able to act with relative impunity against the US for the past 4 years and this has likely meant that their intelligence department has been able to experiment and take chances that they never would have in the past.

    My impression has always been that a big part of it is cultural as well. It never seems like western hackers or the like are interested in going full court press to defend their own national identity and are a lot more likely to be critical of their own governments and concerned with what they are up to online.

    In Russia, unless you want to be on the wrong side of OSHA violations, you will protect your national identity. They also care far less about any criminal things you may have done so long as those things were not perpetrated against the Russian state.

    Thought it was, they care far less about criminal things so long as you work for the state.

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  • Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    I'm really surprised folks in power aren't treating this as a bigger deal. Most experts pretty much agree the Russian state is responsible. Given that other countries like the UK also got hit, is everyone just waiting till Biden gets elected? This is one the largest acts of aggression we've seen from a nation against the US in what 50 some years?

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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    Trajan45 wrote: »
    I'm really surprised folks in power aren't treating this as a bigger deal. Most experts pretty much agree the Russian state is responsible. Given that other countries like the UK also got hit, is everyone just waiting till Biden gets elected? This is one the largest acts of aggression we've seen from a nation against the US in what 50 some years?

    Don’t worry it’ll become a very big deal when Biden comes into power, because the Republican Party will use it to beat Biden and Democrats over the head with and accuse them of being soft on Russia for not bombing Russia, and that it was all along Democrats fault because they’re globalists or something. Suddenly the existing relations with North Korea, Iran and Russia will all be a disaster and Democrats should stop coddling dictators!

    It’s coming. Also get ready to care about the deficit again!

    Prohass on
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Trajan45 wrote: »
    I'm really surprised folks in power aren't treating this as a bigger deal. Most experts pretty much agree the Russian state is responsible. Given that other countries like the UK also got hit, is everyone just waiting till Biden gets elected? This is one the largest acts of aggression we've seen from a nation against the US in what 50 some years?

    Trump has been completely deferential to Russia for a lot of reasons for pretty much the last 5 years. And the President basically sets foreign policy.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Trajan45 wrote: »
    I'm really surprised folks in power aren't treating this as a bigger deal. Most experts pretty much agree the Russian state is responsible. Given that other countries like the UK also got hit, is everyone just waiting till Biden gets elected? This is one the largest acts of aggression we've seen from a nation against the US in what 50 some years?

    Trump has been completely deferential to Russia for a lot of reasons for pretty much the last 5 years. And the President basically sets foreign policy.

    Doesn't help that he's already covering.

    https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-politics-mark-levin-coronavirus-pandemic-hacking-6080f156125a4a46edef2a6dcf826611
    “The Cyber Hack is far greater in the Fake News Media than in actuality. I have been fully briefed and everything is well under control,” Trump tweeted. He also claimed the media are “petrified” of “discussing the possibility that it may be China (it may!).”

    There is no evidence to suggest that is the case. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said late Friday that Russia was “pretty clearly” behind the operation against the United States.

    Not a big deal, probably China.

    At this point, I'm wondering what Putin would demand of Trump that he wouldn't demean himself to do. It's fucking pathetic how someone in the most powerful position in the world, is such a feckless shit.

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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited December 2020
    I don’t think Putin has anything on trump, or needs to make demands. I mean he likely does have stuff on him, but it’s the same financial crimes we already have dozens of other examples of

    More likely is that trump is susceptible to obvious crude flattery and also sees any attack on Russia as an attack on him winning the 2016 election

    Prohass on
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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    I don’t think Putin has anything on trump, or needs to make demands. I mean he likely does have stuff on him, but it’s the same financial crimes we already have dozens of other examples of

    More likely is that trump is susceptible to obvious crude flattery and also sees any attack on Russia as an attack on him winning the 2016 election

    This is my thought. There's nothing salacious there. The reality is just going to be just how pathetically easily most politicians seem to be bought (like private jet flights for some reason seem to have a huge impact despite the fact that.. they're kind of nothing?)

    There's an army of people in politics who covet the appearance of wealth and suck up to it for the simple dream of sitting at the head of someone else's board room table and having a bunch of people "serious people" look at them.

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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    I don’t think Putin has anything on trump, or needs to make demands. I mean he likely does have stuff on him, but it’s the same financial crimes we already have dozens of other examples of

    More likely is that trump is susceptible to obvious crude flattery and also sees any attack on Russia as an attack on him winning the 2016 election

    This is my thought. There's nothing salacious there. The reality is just going to be just how pathetically easily most politicians seem to be bought (like private jet flights for some reason seem to have a huge impact despite the fact that.. they're kind of nothing?)

    There's an army of people in politics who covet the appearance of wealth and suck up to it for the simple dream of sitting at the head of someone else's board room table and having a bunch of people "serious people" look at them.

    I do think Putin has blackmail material on Trump. Maybe not the pee tape but just from what we know about how Russia hoovers up kompromat and Trumps character they undoubtedly have enough material to destroy him ten times over - in business / financial crimes, sexual stuff (probably with minors but even a non criminal sex tape would be damaging), and probably other stuff like him using the n word or ranting about Jews or 'meddlesome priest'mob boss stuff.

    He spent a lot of time in Russia. And is a piece of human garbage by nearly every metric.

    I doubt Putin has had to blackmail him and probably has downplayed what he does have - we are friends, we would never do anything like that to you, etc. But I have no doubt he would use it if he thought it was beneficial to do so. Just that fluffing Trumps ego and using other angles of attack are every bit as effective and lower risk.

    And Trump knows what he does. And if the pee incident really happened - and him trying to get the tapes through Cohen indicates something did - even if Putin doesn't blackmail him directly and even blames it on rogue people or hackers or anyone but people working for Putin it still is leverage.

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  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    None of that stuff would actually destroy Trump though.

    The real leverage Putin has is all the questionable loans and money laundering fed in his direction that gives him any amount of income.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Really, I think theres a dozen reasons trump is so subservient to putin; he innately recognizes him as the superior bully, his love of authoritarianism and envy of those people, Loans, Black mail, Real estate scamming... It's like wheel of fortune without any of the negative options.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
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  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    Or Trump is naturally the slimy sidekick bullies always have. He just never found his sempai here in the US.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Maybe we just need Bellingcat to infiltrate this group like they’ve done to the FSB’s sloppy assassination attempt of Navalny

  • ZavianZavian universal peace sounds better than forever war Registered User regular
    edited January 7
    IMO tariffs at the VERY LEAST are needed to pressure China, because it's very disturbing what's going on, as evidenced by this tweet today

    this is the official Chinese Embassy in the US

    Zavian on
  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Worst song, played on ugliest guitar Registered User regular


    ABC reporter

    They also designated the Houthi's as sponsors of terrorism this morning.

    Just knocking shit over on the way out the door.

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  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited January 11
    Zavian wrote: »
    IMO tariffs at the VERY LEAST are needed to pressure China, because it's very disturbing what's going on, as evidenced by this tweet today

    this is the official Chinese Embassy in the US

    This is why you also quote the tweet. Twitter removed the tweet for violating the rules

    Edit: Quoting the tweet from @I Zimbra
    Pompeo statement:

    “The State Department has designated Cuba as a State Sponsor of Terrorism for repeatedly providing support for acts of international terrorism in granting safe harbor to terrorists."
    9wihg6b4ugmh.png

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 11
    Pompeo seems to have decided today is "set everything he can in US foreign policy on fire" day.


    EDIT: I wonder if this is what pissed someone at State off enough to sabotage the website.

    shryke on
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    "Let's declare every organization except the ones that just attacked the Capitol terrorists"

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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    "Let's declare every organization except the ones that just attacked the Capitol terrorists"

    This is almost certainly the plan. Significant domestic terror attack by your supporters -> start talking about foreign state sponsors of terrorism -> wait for qanon to decide antifa is sponsored by Cuba.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    I'm amazed they haven't declared antifa and BLM terrorist orgs yet. Nevermind that antifa doesn't formally exist and BLM is so mainstream that most businesses in my area express support for them.

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  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    I'm amazed they haven't declared antifa and BLM terrorist orgs yet. Nevermind that antifa doesn't formally exist and BLM is so mainstream that most businesses in my area express support for them.

    To be fair I've been clear about how group affiliation declarations like that work. Like, I guess you can stamp out the name, but I've never understood why you wouldn't just immediately rebrand.

  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    Things are just peachy.



    Tweeter is a CNN WH correspondent.
    from Reuters:

    “Secretary of State Mike Pompeo cancelled his Europe trip at the last minute on Tuesday after Luxembourg's foreign minister and top European Union officials declined to meet him, European diplomats and other people familiar with the matter said”

    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
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