[US Foreign Policy] Assassinations, broken treaties and trade pacts, oh my!

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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited January 12
    Echo wrote: »
    Things are just peachy.



    Tweeter is a CNN WH correspondent.
    from Reuters:

    “Secretary of State Mike Pompeo cancelled his Europe trip at the last minute on Tuesday after Luxembourg's foreign minister and top European Union officials declined to meet him, European diplomats and other people familiar with the matter said”

    Wow, it takes a special breed of asshole to piss off the Benelux countries to that degree.

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  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Worst song, played on ugliest guitar Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    Things are just peachy.



    Tweeter is a CNN WH correspondent.
    from Reuters:

    “Secretary of State Mike Pompeo cancelled his Europe trip at the last minute on Tuesday after Luxembourg's foreign minister and top European Union officials declined to meet him, European diplomats and other people familiar with the matter said”

    Wow, it takes a special breed of asshole to piss off the Benelux countries to that degree.

    I imagine they weren't too keen about some asshole who is going to be unemployed in a week trying to browbeat them into going to war with Iran.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    I Zimbra wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    Things are just peachy.



    Tweeter is a CNN WH correspondent.
    from Reuters:

    “Secretary of State Mike Pompeo cancelled his Europe trip at the last minute on Tuesday after Luxembourg's foreign minister and top European Union officials declined to meet him, European diplomats and other people familiar with the matter said”

    Wow, it takes a special breed of asshole to piss off the Benelux countries to that degree.

    I imagine they weren't too keen about some asshole who is going to be unemployed in a week trying to browbeat them into going to war with Iran.

    Wish they'd been willing to keep him distracted with good food and drink for a couple of days. Not that he can't multi-task, but anything that takes up time that he'd otherwise use starting fires would be great.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    Can the next administration just reverse this and specifically call Pompeo a shit stirrer or something?

  • ZavianZavian universal peace sounds better than forever war Registered User regular
    edited January 13
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Can the next administration just reverse this and specifically call Pompeo a shit stirrer or something?

    I dunno why people think Biden is going to reverse anything. Antony Blinken, the new Sec of State, is one of the ones that started stirring shit up in Yemen to begin with, freely sending weapons and refueling bombing runs over Yemen
    U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Antony Blinken said the U.S., a key ally of oil-rich Saudi Arabia, had also set up a coordination center in the Sunni Muslim kingdom, whose forces have led an air campaign against the Shi’ite Houthi group which rules most of Yemen.

    “Saudi Arabia is sending a strong message to the Houthis and their allies that they cannot overrun Yemen by force,” he told reporters in the Saudi capital Riyadh.

    “As part of that effort, we have expedited weapons deliveries, we have increased our intelligence sharing, and we have established a joint coordination planning cell in the Saudi operation center,” Blinken added.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-yemen-security/u-s-expedites-arms-shipments-to-coalition-bombing-yemen-idUSKBN0MY1TL20150407

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Zavian wrote: »
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Can the next administration just reverse this and specifically call Pompeo a shit stirrer or something?

    I dunno why people think Biden is going to reverse anything. Antony Blinken, the new Sec of State, is one of the ones that started stirring shit up in Yemen to begin with, freely sending weapons and refueling bombing runs over Yemen
    U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Antony Blinken said the U.S., a key ally of oil-rich Saudi Arabia, had also set up a coordination center in the Sunni Muslim kingdom, whose forces have led an air campaign against the Shi’ite Houthi group which rules most of Yemen.

    “Saudi Arabia is sending a strong message to the Houthis and their allies that they cannot overrun Yemen by force,” he told reporters in the Saudi capital Riyadh.

    “As part of that effort, we have expedited weapons deliveries, we have increased our intelligence sharing, and we have established a joint coordination planning cell in the Saudi operation center,” Blinken added.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-yemen-security/u-s-expedites-arms-shipments-to-coalition-bombing-yemen-idUSKBN0MY1TL20150407

    That link does not say Blinken is the one who started the war in Yemen, no. Or that he was the one that decided to support the Saudis in their efforts.

    CelestialBadger
  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited January 13
    I thought the senate actually passed something that would halt support to SA over Yemen and Trump vetoed. So while the bipartisan war machine surely still loves war, they've probably soured on this one.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Saudi Arabia is an area where I can't decide if there's a good, or zero, chance of change. I will be highly disappointed if their buddying up to Israel gives them the cover to keep being incompetent, intolerant, terrorist supporting, journalist dismembering, assholes. Also war crimes in Yemen.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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  • ZavianZavian universal peace sounds better than forever war Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Zavian wrote: »
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Can the next administration just reverse this and specifically call Pompeo a shit stirrer or something?

    I dunno why people think Biden is going to reverse anything. Antony Blinken, the new Sec of State, is one of the ones that started stirring shit up in Yemen to begin with, freely sending weapons and refueling bombing runs over Yemen
    U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Antony Blinken said the U.S., a key ally of oil-rich Saudi Arabia, had also set up a coordination center in the Sunni Muslim kingdom, whose forces have led an air campaign against the Shi’ite Houthi group which rules most of Yemen.

    “Saudi Arabia is sending a strong message to the Houthis and their allies that they cannot overrun Yemen by force,” he told reporters in the Saudi capital Riyadh.

    “As part of that effort, we have expedited weapons deliveries, we have increased our intelligence sharing, and we have established a joint coordination planning cell in the Saudi operation center,” Blinken added.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-yemen-security/u-s-expedites-arms-shipments-to-coalition-bombing-yemen-idUSKBN0MY1TL20150407

    That link does not say Blinken is the one who started the war in Yemen, no. Or that he was the one that decided to support the Saudis in their efforts.

    it's never surprising to me that no one ever wants to take responsibility for genocide and massive civilian deaths. Blinken knew what those weapons and bombing runs were doing, and he supported it. genocide apologists are the worst

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Zavian wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Zavian wrote: »
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Can the next administration just reverse this and specifically call Pompeo a shit stirrer or something?

    I dunno why people think Biden is going to reverse anything. Antony Blinken, the new Sec of State, is one of the ones that started stirring shit up in Yemen to begin with, freely sending weapons and refueling bombing runs over Yemen
    U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Antony Blinken said the U.S., a key ally of oil-rich Saudi Arabia, had also set up a coordination center in the Sunni Muslim kingdom, whose forces have led an air campaign against the Shi’ite Houthi group which rules most of Yemen.

    “Saudi Arabia is sending a strong message to the Houthis and their allies that they cannot overrun Yemen by force,” he told reporters in the Saudi capital Riyadh.

    “As part of that effort, we have expedited weapons deliveries, we have increased our intelligence sharing, and we have established a joint coordination planning cell in the Saudi operation center,” Blinken added.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-yemen-security/u-s-expedites-arms-shipments-to-coalition-bombing-yemen-idUSKBN0MY1TL20150407

    That link does not say Blinken is the one who started the war in Yemen, no. Or that he was the one that decided to support the Saudis in their efforts.

    it's never surprising to me that no one ever wants to take responsibility for genocide and massive civilian deaths. Blinken knew what those weapons and bombing runs were doing, and he supported it. genocide apologists are the worst

    I don't see how this actually addresses the point at all. It's not clear at all that Blinken is "one of the ones that started stirring shit up in Yemen to begin with". His feelings on the issue are not really discernable from that article.

    Like, as an example, Biden himself was VP during the Obama admin and yet it's been written about many times that he disagreed with some key decisions they made.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Can the next administration just reverse this and specifically call Pompeo a shit stirrer or something?

    Yes, but that takes time and effort the could have committed to something not put there to waste their time.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Saudi Arabia is an area where I can't decide if there's a good, or zero, chance of change. I will be highly disappointed if their buddying up to Israel gives them the cover to keep being incompetent, intolerant, terrorist supporting, journalist dismembering, assholes. Also war crimes in Yemen.

    Saudi Arabia are always going to be our most horrible chums. They might think twice about the dismemberment though and stick to cleaner assassination methods.

    Ticaldfjam
  • BlindPsychicBlindPsychic Registered User regular
    Will Guantanamo ever be closed?

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Not a Fictional Character Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Will Guantanamo ever be closed?

    It requires congress to have a sufficient number of good people.

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  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited January 17
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Will Guantanamo ever be closed?

    It requires congress to have a sufficient number of good people.

    There's also a certain amount of state government NIMBYism around having illegally, permanently detained terrorist leaders kept on US soil, and it's not really an issue any of our allies feel taking over

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Will Guantanamo ever be closed?

    It requires congress to have a sufficient number of good people.

    There's also a certain amount of state government NIMBYism around having illegally, permanently detained terrorist leaders kept on US soil, and it's not really an issue any of our allies feel taking over

    The illegal part is honestly not even really a factor. It's the whole belief that Gitmo detainees must be, like, super-terrorists who will make your state inherently less safe simply by being incarcerated there.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    I highly recommend reading Guantanamo Diary, a memoir written by Mohamedou Ould Salahi, who was held for fourteen years by the United States without ever being formally charged with any crime. It was written while he was still detained, and its publication through his lawyer was instrumental in getting him released.

    Large sections of the book were redacted for a while but there is a new edition with the redactions restored.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Will Guantanamo ever be closed?

    It requires congress to have a sufficient number of good people.

    There's also a certain amount of state government NIMBYism around having illegally, permanently detained terrorist leaders kept on US soil, and it's not really an issue any of our allies feel taking over

    As I recall, when Obama was trying to close it, there was a Supermax(ugh) in Illinois tht was willing to take them.

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  • thatassemblyguythatassemblyguy he/him Gorman 2036Registered User regular
    Just a reminder that a weak US State department, weakening NATO, has allowed Putin to proceed with crazy shit like, detaining political opposition on fictional charges:

    https://apnews.com/article/moscow-russia-vladimir-putin-berlin-germany-74a87b440567673e55ea527980e472e1
    Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny was arrested Sunday at a Moscow airport as he tried to enter the country from Germany, where he had spent five months recovering from nerve agent poisoning that he blames on the Kremlin.

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  • fedaykin666fedaykin666 Registered User regular
    edited January 18
    Just a reminder that a weak US State department, weakening NATO, has allowed Putin to proceed with crazy shit like, detaining political opposition on fictional charges:

    https://apnews.com/article/moscow-russia-vladimir-putin-berlin-germany-74a87b440567673e55ea527980e472e1
    Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny was arrested Sunday at a Moscow airport as he tried to enter the country from Germany, where he had spent five months recovering from nerve agent poisoning that he blames on the Kremlin.

    Would it really be much different though? Putin has a long and established history of poisoning, jailing and murdering opposition and whistleblowers for decades. eg. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

    I guess a strong and united EU and US talking tough and imposing financial sanctions could restrai him a bit, but I don't think he would just stop killing and oppressing inconvenient people. Also what a badass Navalny is, immediately returning to Russia after barely surviving a horrific nerve agent. He knows what's going to happen to him, but just goes anyway.



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  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 18
    Not to victim blame but I don’t understand why Navalnyj would return to Russia. There’s the martyrdom but it seems he could achieve more from exile. Surely he must’ve understood a return would go bad immediately.

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  • fedaykin666fedaykin666 Registered User regular
    I'm also sure he understands better than anyone exactly what Putin is capable of after literally just barely recovering from Novichok poisoning. I normally dislike the words "hero" and "patriot" , because they are often misused, but the guy is walking back in there, while continuing to make noise about Putin's crimes. He seems to basically be offering himself up as a sacrificial lion because he just is not afraid. He could have been granted asylum pretty much anywhere and lived a good life and no one would have blamed him.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Honk wrote: »
    Not to victim blame but I don’t understand why Navalnyj would return to Russia. There’s the martyrdom but it seems he could achieve more from exile. Surely he must’ve understood a return would go bad immediately.

    It's possible he's banking on the next Administration not being Putin's poodle, and offering some kind of protection from obvious attacks.

    Though I'm surprised he didn't wait until next week before returning if that was the case.

    I'm curious how much (if any) authoritarian dicktaters (especially Russia, China and the Saudis) will pull their heads in, or if they'll wait to see just how aggressive Biden gets on foreign policy before bothering.

    Trump’s done so much damage to US soft power that short of large scale military annexation (ie, China into India, not China into Hong Kong) they may just chance that the US has too many domestic issues to do more than officially lodge protests for the next couple years.

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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    I'm also sure he understands better than anyone exactly what Putin is capable of after literally just barely recovering from Novichok poisoning. I normally dislike the words "hero" and "patriot" , because they are often misused, but the guy is walking back in there, while continuing to make noise about Putin's crimes. He seems to basically be offering himself up as a sacrificial lion because he just is not afraid. He could have been granted asylum pretty much anywhere and lived a good life and no one would have blamed him.

    He'd be living a life of constant fear anywhere he sought asylum, he'd never really be safe.

    When people internalize that their lives are forfeit regardless of their actions they can do things that seem/are pretty irrational

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  • thatassemblyguythatassemblyguy he/him Gorman 2036Registered User regular
    edited January 18
    Just a reminder that a weak US State department, weakening NATO, has allowed Putin to proceed with crazy shit like, detaining political opposition on fictional charges:

    https://apnews.com/article/moscow-russia-vladimir-putin-berlin-germany-74a87b440567673e55ea527980e472e1
    Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny was arrested Sunday at a Moscow airport as he tried to enter the country from Germany, where he had spent five months recovering from nerve agent poisoning that he blames on the Kremlin.

    Would it really be much different though? Putin has a long and established history of poisoning, jailing and murdering opposition and whistleblowers for decades. eg. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

    I guess a strong and united EU and US talking tough and imposing financial sanctions could restrai him a bit, but I don't think he would just stop killing and oppressing inconvenient people. Also what a badass Navalny is, immediately returning to Russia after barely surviving a horrific nerve agent. He knows what's going to happen to him, but just goes anyway.

    All I know is that the Kremlin has been in a very good spot these last 5 years, and having a weak US State department that was trying to destabilize NATO, definitely has emboldened Putin.
    Honk wrote: »
    Not to victim blame but I don’t understand why Navalnyj would return to Russia. There’s the martyrdom but it seems he could achieve more from exile. Surely he must’ve understood a return would go bad immediately.

    In a DW segment, this was brought up, the logic he used is that he never consented to leaving the country [because he was already unconscious due to the poisoning], and if he stayed out of the country then the opposition would lose momentum/he would be seen as less legitimate to the eyes of national Russians.

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  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited January 18
    Honk wrote: »
    Not to victim blame but I don’t understand why Navalnyj would return to Russia. There’s the martyrdom but it seems he could achieve more from exile. Surely he must’ve understood a return would go bad immediately.

    Putin has stated he is stepping down in the not too distant future, and there's a new administration in the US that isn't going to favour the 'old' Russia. If there's a time you can make a difference, or lay the groundwork to do so, it's probably now.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Navalny has been a fucking baller calling his would-be-assassins and tricking them into confessing to their attempted hit

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55395683

    He posted it to YouTube

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Also re: Gitmo, fuck Drew Brees

    https://defector.com/drew-brees-now-has-lots-of-free-time-to-respect-the-flag/
    I can say this after that experience — the worst thing we can do is shut that baby down, for a lot of reasons. But I think there’s a big misconception as to how we are treating those prisoners — those detainees over there. They are being treated probably ten times better than any prisoner in a U.S. prison. They’re on a 6,500 calorie-a-day diet whereas a normal U.S. prisoner is on a 2,000 calorie-a-day diet…. I think the international media — there’s just been so much scrutiny over the way that we’re treating these guys, it’s almost like we’re going overboard to treat them so well.

    I mean, they’re allowed to call and write letters home, and receive letters and calls. They get five opportunities a day to pray, and they have arrows in the prison pointing towards where Mecca is. And the prison goes dead silent so these guys can have their religious time. They have rooms where they can watch movies and play Nintendo Wii. So I think that just goes ahead and says it right there.

    And you just talk to all the guards that are Army and Navy personnel, they’ll tell you stories about how these prisoners, they’ll be walking the cell blocks as they’re keeping an eye on these guys and they’ll be throwing their feces and urine in the faces of the guards as they walk by, and the guards are not allowed to do anything. They’re not allowed to physically retaliate or do anything hardly to try to restrain these guys at all. These guys get away with whatever they want.

    And it was interesting because at one point, we were walking from one detention center to another and some of the prisoners saw us. And they started yelling, ‘Torture! Torture!’ We teach them English, by the way. But they assume since we’re in civilian clothes that we were members of the media so they started yelling, ‘Torture! Torture!’ So you know, anything that they can do to show a poor light on the U.S. military, they’re going to do it. Because it seems like they’re being treated very, very well over there.

    6500 calories a day!

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Also re: Gitmo, fuck Drew Brees

    https://defector.com/drew-brees-now-has-lots-of-free-time-to-respect-the-flag/
    I can say this after that experience — the worst thing we can do is shut that baby down, for a lot of reasons. But I think there’s a big misconception as to how we are treating those prisoners — those detainees over there. They are being treated probably ten times better than any prisoner in a U.S. prison. They’re on a 6,500 calorie-a-day diet whereas a normal U.S. prisoner is on a 2,000 calorie-a-day diet…. I think the international media — there’s just been so much scrutiny over the way that we’re treating these guys, it’s almost like we’re going overboard to treat them so well.

    I mean, they’re allowed to call and write letters home, and receive letters and calls. They get five opportunities a day to pray, and they have arrows in the prison pointing towards where Mecca is. And the prison goes dead silent so these guys can have their religious time. They have rooms where they can watch movies and play Nintendo Wii. So I think that just goes ahead and says it right there.

    And you just talk to all the guards that are Army and Navy personnel, they’ll tell you stories about how these prisoners, they’ll be walking the cell blocks as they’re keeping an eye on these guys and they’ll be throwing their feces and urine in the faces of the guards as they walk by, and the guards are not allowed to do anything. They’re not allowed to physically retaliate or do anything hardly to try to restrain these guys at all. These guys get away with whatever they want.

    And it was interesting because at one point, we were walking from one detention center to another and some of the prisoners saw us. And they started yelling, ‘Torture! Torture!’ We teach them English, by the way. But they assume since we’re in civilian clothes that we were members of the media so they started yelling, ‘Torture! Torture!’ So you know, anything that they can do to show a poor light on the U.S. military, they’re going to do it. Because it seems like they’re being treated very, very well over there.

    6500 calories a day!

    A devious plan to ensure that the prisoners definitely can't escape due to not being able to walk faster than a waddle.

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular

    Jeff Stein is a WaPo reporter.

    Wait, what? But the Trump admin was very aggressive on sanctions. What the hell is this woman talking about?

  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Don't punish these other, punish those others.

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  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »

    Jeff Stein is a WaPo reporter.

    Wait, what? But the Trump admin was very aggressive on sanctions. What the hell is this woman talking about?

    ....except for Russia, where it slow-walked, failed to implement, or got them repealed.

    We're kinda lacking context about who is being targeted here. But that's Twitter Working as Intended.

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  • PiotyrPiotyr Registered User regular
    I am admittedly not an expert on Middle Eastern politics, but this seems like a big deal from Iran re: the Iran nuclear agreement:



    Famaz Fassihi is the Mideast/Iran expert for the NY Times

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    This... seems like the best we could have hoped for?
    All such deals going forward, with everyone, will have an implicit if not explicit "could get revoked in four/eight years" clause, but...

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Dude, Iran rejoining the JPCOA would be the best early Christmas present ever. Both as a vector to world stability and as a giant “fuck you” to Trump and his sycophants.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Dude, Iran rejoining the JPCOA would be the best early Christmas present ever. Both as a vector to world stability and as a giant “fuck you” to Trump and his sycophants.

    *checks calendar*

    Now that's some early Christmas shopping.

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  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Worst song, played on ugliest guitar Registered User regular
    Biden withdrew the Keystone XL pipeline permits and Canada is not real thrilled with us right now.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    I Zimbra wrote: »
    Biden withdrew the Keystone XL pipeline permits and Canada is not real thrilled with us right now.

    Canada, or Alberta?

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Canada saying “fuck what Native Americans want” is very on brand.

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/taiwan-heartened-as-senior-diplomat-attends-biden-inauguration/ar-BB1cWjPh
    Taiwan's de facto ambassador in Washington attended the inauguration of U.S. President Joe Biden, hearting the Chinese-claimed island which has been nervous it would not win the same level of support from the new government as the previous one.

    Former President Donald Trump's administration ramped up support for Taiwan, increasing arms sales and sending senior officials to Taipei, angering China and stirring even greater enmity from Beijing towards Washington.

    That had made Trump a popular figure in democratic Taiwan, which China views as its own territory, to be taken by force if needed.

    Taiwan's Foreign Ministry said Hsiao Bi-khim, Taiwan's representative in Washington and who is close to Taiwan President Tsai Ing-wen, attended Wednesday's swearing in.

    "The first-ever invitation to Taiwan's representative to the U.S. to attend the Inaugural Ceremonies, the most significant event celebrating U.S. democracy, highlights the close and cordial ties between Taiwan and the United States based on shared values," it said.

    Sounds like Biden isn't backing off the taiwan normalization

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